{"videoId":"https://video.isilive.ca/victoria/New%20Encoder_COTW_2026-06-11-12-03.mp4","source":"isilive_vtt","segments":[{"t":0,"text":"And then welcome to the Thursday June 11th meeting of"},{"t":2,"text":"Victoria City Council's Committee of the Whole. Today we have"},{"t":7,"text":"for our consideration a proposed late item, two sets of"},{"t":10,"text":"minutes. A presentation from destination greater Victor Victoria, two staff"},{"t":14,"text":"reports and three or possibly four Council Member Motions. But"},{"t":19,"text":"before we begin, we always like to take a moment"},{"t":21,"text":"to ground ourselves and our work, and our recognition and"},{"t":25,"text":"acknowledgement of the two nations on whose territories are City"},{"t":28,"text":"Sits in its entirety. The Le Quangan people of the"},{"t":31,"text":"Song He's Nation and the Kosepsum Nation have spent generations,"},{"t":35,"text":"ensuring that we have the opportunities and the chance to"},{"t":38,"text":"do the work that we do in an environment which"},{"t":41,"text":"in days like this is particularly notable for how gorgeous"},{"t":45,"text":"and warm and reassuring it is. In addition to the"},{"t":50,"text":"Environment in which we live, of course, there are so"},{"t":52,"text":"many opportunities for us to make important decisions that we"},{"t":55,"text":"hope respect the past and all the work that's come"},{"t":57,"text":"before us. Challenges and deals with those issues facing us"},{"t":61,"text":"today for all of the people who are here now."},{"t":64,"text":"But also with an eye, of course, to preparing for"},{"t":66,"text":"all of those people who will live here in the"},{"t":68,"text":"City of Victoria in the future. Whether they're here now"},{"t":71,"text":"or whether they are coming. And we know that they"},{"t":74,"text":"are. When we consider all that we have learned with"},{"t":77,"text":"and from the nations, we want to always take a"},{"t":79,"text":"moment to ground what we do in that learning, but"},{"t":83,"text":"also to express our thanks for the ongoing generosity of"},{"t":86,"text":"the nation's in continuing to work with us as partners"},{"t":90,"text":"and as leaders and as mentors, and to appreciate the"},{"t":93,"text":"time that they spend and allowing us to take what"},{"t":96,"text":"we can to give back what we can and to"},{"t":99,"text":"continue to assume and preserve and value our future and"},{"t":103,"text":"present relationships. We will have an opportunity to join with"},{"t":107,"text":"them again next week as we do periodically, as we"},{"t":109,"text":"share a meal with their councils and their staff. And"},{"t":113,"text":"that is an opportunity for all of us to be"},{"t":115,"text":"able to make some incredibly important personal connections as well"},{"t":118,"text":"as professional connections, which of course we nurture for the"},{"t":122,"text":"benefit of all. So I ask all of you as"},{"t":124,"text":"you go through your days to perhaps find a moment"},{"t":126,"text":"where you observe something or experience something which brings home"},{"t":129,"text":"to you in a very personal level, what it means"},{"t":132,"text":"to be able to live in these lands and to"},{"t":134,"text":"experience the land and the waters that surround them and"},{"t":136,"text":"to give some type of personal thanks to the nations"},{"t":140,"text":"for contributing to your opportunity to do so. I trick"},{"t":143,"text":"us here, I'm Nicolia. Just as a quick note, not"},{"t":150,"text":"remarks so much as a reminder that there is a"},{"t":153,"text":"public celebration of life that will be held on Saturday"},{"t":157,"text":"for our late colleague, Langford Councillor Lillian Spock, and it"},{"t":161,"text":"will be held at railroads university on Saturday, June 13th,"},{"t":165,"text":"this coming Saturday starting at 10 a. m. Lillian was,"},{"t":168,"text":"of course, as many of us know a huge proponent"},{"t":171,"text":"of the environment and of different ways of moving. And"},{"t":175,"text":"so I would urge everyone who's planning to go to"},{"t":177,"text":"perhaps make a special effort to arrive there in a"},{"t":181,"text":"way that is different than a single occupancy vehicle, not"},{"t":184,"text":"the least of which is like, there will be a"},{"t":185,"text":"very large crowd who wished to pay their respects. And"},{"t":189,"text":"it would be good for you to be able to"},{"t":190,"text":"do so in a way which Lillian herself would appreciate."},{"t":197,"text":"That moves us on to late items. There is actually"},{"t":200,"text":"a late item being proposed today, and just as a"},{"t":202,"text":"reminder, because we don't do this very often. Under our"},{"t":205,"text":"procedures biolog, we do allow for the consideration of an"},{"t":208,"text":"item to be added to an agenda on the same"},{"t":210,"text":"day. Unders Sections 15, which speaks to the fact that"},{"t":214,"text":"it must be a two - thirds majority at the"},{"t":216,"text":"time that has been considered Section 15. 6, which requires"},{"t":221,"text":"that before consideration materials pertaining to the matter need to"},{"t":224,"text":"be shared with Council. And Section 191b, where it speaks"},{"t":228,"text":"to the fact that those matters and the materials for"},{"t":231,"text":"them need to be submitted to the clerk at least"},{"t":233,"text":"48 hours before the agenda, or before the matter is"},{"t":236,"text":"considered. This is a matter that's been proposed by Councillor"},{"t":239,"text":"Kim, and she has met the submission threshold. So now"},{"t":242,"text":"Council may consider whether or not to add this to"},{"t":245,"text":"the agenda today. So Councillor Kim will start, please, by"},{"t":248,"text":"asking you to move a motion to add the item"},{"t":250,"text":"to today's agenda as item I4. So moved. Is there"},{"t":256,"text":"a seconder? Thanks very much, Councillor Thompson. Councillor Kim, can"},{"t":260,"text":"you speak briefly to why it needs to be added"},{"t":263,"text":"to the agenda, not to the substance of the item"},{"t":265,"text":"itself? The deadline for UBCM resolutions this June 15th next"},{"t":269,"text":"week. Very good. Councillor Thompson, anything to add? Any other"},{"t":273,"text":"comments on the rationale for it being added today. Not"},{"t":277,"text":"seeing any, so all we're voting on today is whether"},{"t":279,"text":"or not to add the item to the agenda as"},{"t":281,"text":"item I4. If it's adopted, then when we get to"},{"t":284,"text":"that end, we'll speak to the actual substance of the"},{"t":286,"text":"motion. All those in favor of adding the item. Is"},{"t":290,"text":"anyone opposed. That is uni. That is unanimous. Thank you"},{"t":295,"text":"very much. So that will become a new eye for,"},{"t":297,"text":"and it will be the last of our Council Member"},{"t":299,"text":"Motions later today. Noting that addition, then I'd look for"},{"t":303,"text":"a motion to approve the amended agenda. Thanks, Councillor Coleman."},{"t":307,"text":"It's your secondary Council Caradona. Discussion on the amended agenda."},{"t":311,"text":"Not seeing any, all those in favor. Anybody opposed? That"},{"t":314,"text":"is unanimous. There are a number of items proposed for"},{"t":317,"text":"consent time aware that a couple of them are wanting"},{"t":318,"text":"to be removed, but I'll just read them in their"},{"t":321,"text":"original proposal state just for the information of the public."},{"t":324,"text":"So proposed for the consent agenda was item F1. The"},{"t":328,"text":"minutes from the Committee of the Whole Meeting held on"},{"t":330,"text":"March the 12th of this year. Item F2, the minutes"},{"t":333,"text":"from the Committee of the Whole meeting held on April"},{"t":334,"text":"2nd. Item H1. The recommendation for altitude cannabis application at"},{"t":340,"text":"1010 Cook Street. An item II, the Council Member Motion"},{"t":344,"text":"with regard to advocacy to reinstate the PC Active Transportation"},{"t":347,"text":"Infrastructure and Grants Program. And finally, item III Council Member"},{"t":352,"text":"Motion with regard to 28 Bastion Square. I'm aware that"},{"t":356,"text":"there is a request to remove item H1. That's the"},{"t":359,"text":"10 Cook Street cannabis application for questions, so that will"},{"t":363,"text":"take that off. And also item I2, the Council Member"},{"t":366,"text":"Motion with regard to advocacy to reinstate BC Active Transportation"},{"t":370,"text":"Infrastructure Grants for clarification on its time sensitivity. So we'll"},{"t":375,"text":"pull both of those out. Is there any other meta"},{"t":377,"text":"that needs to be pulled from the proposed consent agenda."},{"t":381,"text":"Culture Cardano. Uh, I was going to propose swapping I3"},{"t":386,"text":"and I4, put I4 on. Would you like to remove"},{"t":390,"text":"i3? Leave it as is. You want to remove I3?"},{"t":393,"text":"Yes. Yes, okay. That's fine. And, uh, yes, I was"},{"t":396,"text":"about to ask the question whether or not anyone wanted"},{"t":398,"text":"to add IFOR since it's now on the agenda. Does"},{"t":402,"text":"anyone object to adding the recently added I4, which was"},{"t":408,"text":"the motion to have the city contribute to and support"},{"t":413,"text":"a UBCM resolution with regard to advocacy to the provincial"},{"t":418,"text":"government to reinstate the Community Housing Fund. That's what the"},{"t":423,"text":"additional Council No Promotion is. Does anyone have any objection"},{"t":427,"text":"to that being added? It's an advocacy motion. Okay, so"},{"t":430,"text":"we'll put I4 on the consent agenda as well. So"},{"t":434,"text":"that means the consent agenda is made up of item"},{"t":437,"text":"F1. The minutes from March 12th, F2, the minutes from"},{"t":439,"text":"April 2nd. And the new I for the Council Member"},{"t":444,"text":"Motion about Community Housing Fund Advocacy. Councillor Kim. My eye"},{"t":449,"text":"attempt to add I1. I1. Second, I1 is the Community"},{"t":457,"text":"Garden Pilot Project. I believe there are questions about that."},{"t":461,"text":"So I think that would be appropriate to leave that"},{"t":462,"text":"on the agenda. All right, so you have before you,"},{"t":465,"text":"the consent agenda, there are in fact three items. Three"},{"t":468,"text":"items, yes. That would be the minutes, the minutes, and"},{"t":471,"text":"the additional I4 Council Member Motion on the Community Housing"},{"t":474,"text":"Fund. Some would like to move the consent agenda. Thanks,"},{"t":478,"text":"Councillor Coleman. Second by Councillor Kim. All those in favor."},{"t":482,"text":"Anybody opposed. That is unanimous. Thank you very much for"},{"t":486,"text":"that. That would usually take us on to a consideration"},{"t":489,"text":"of the minutes, but of course we just dealt with"},{"t":490,"text":"both of those at the consent agenda. So F1 and"},{"t":493,"text":"F2 will return to us for final consideration at a"},{"t":496,"text":"future daytime council meeting. And that brings us to our"},{"t":498,"text":"presentations. And today we have a presentation from our colleagues"},{"t":502,"text":"at the destination greater Victor Victoria Organisation. Please come up,"},{"t":506,"text":"take a seat. Make yourself comfortable, get some water. And"},{"t":512,"text":"when you're ready. Feel free to start."},{"t":524,"text":"And don't forget to introduce yourselves because we think we"},{"t":526,"text":"know who you are, but it's possibly the public doesn't."},{"t":530,"text":"Play. Please turn your mic on, Paul. Yes, absolutely. Good"},{"t":535,"text":"morning, Mayor and Council. My name is Paul Nursia and"},{"t":538,"text":"my colleague Jeremy Loveday. We're here to probably pour back"},{"t":541,"text":"on the work of the - You lean in a"},{"t":542,"text":"little bit or pull it twice? Yeah, absolutely. You're a"},{"t":544,"text":"little bit soft. There you go. There we go. We're"},{"t":547,"text":"here to report back on the work of the hotel"},{"t":548,"text":"development working group, uh, which many of your colleagues from"},{"t":551,"text":"staff participated. We're very grateful. On that. And we have"},{"t":556,"text":"quite a bit of information to present and we'll be"},{"t":559,"text":"mindful of the 10 minute limit. And we will launch"},{"t":561,"text":"into it and we'll share presentation slides. Um, as I"},{"t":565,"text":"commence my remarks, I also want to acknowledge with respect"},{"t":569,"text":"the nutritional territories of Le Kwangan speaking people, particularly the"},{"t":572,"text":"song, he's in Casnations, who have both expressed interest in"},{"t":576,"text":"participating in the Visery economy in their own ways. And"},{"t":577,"text":"we are deepening our relationship and our work with each"},{"t":580,"text":"in their own way. So, uh, thank you for that"},{"t":582,"text":"opportunity. And I will say, as I kick off my"},{"t":585,"text":"remarks, it's my 12th year in the role. We've done"},{"t":589,"text":"much work. Um, much of it is not visible to"},{"t":592,"text":"residents because it's out in the marketplace, making intervention. Either"},{"t":595,"text":"a sales or marketing or travel media initiatives. But this"},{"t":597,"text":"work, I'd say, has, um, has created a buzz. I'll"},{"t":600,"text":"buzz in the media, applies on the street level. Certainly"},{"t":602,"text":"a buzz and kind of friend and family group. So"},{"t":605,"text":"the wave around this topic. And I think the reason"},{"t":607,"text":"there is, is because of, um, the case study that"},{"t":610,"text":"we're seeing nearby on Broad Street with, um, particularly the"},{"t":614,"text":"retail shops all filling up immediately around the new hotel"},{"t":617,"text":"as, you know, brave entrepreneurs understand the catalytic nature of"},{"t":620,"text":"rejuvenation, uh, that, that come with Strategic Investment in a"},{"t":624,"text":"few hotels. Uh, so, uh, it's really exciting to see."},{"t":628,"text":"And we make, as always, we am to be strategic"},{"t":630,"text":"and smart and only come to Council when we feel"},{"t":632,"text":"it's important. Um, so we did have the hotel development"},{"t":636,"text":"working group, which fell from our 10 year destination plan."},{"t":640,"text":"The goal really is to, um, get to about 2,"},{"t":645,"text":"000 rooms in the next 10 years to replace what"},{"t":647,"text":"has been lost, which is about 2, 500 rooms. So"},{"t":649,"text":"not even back to where we were and accommodate natural"},{"t":651,"text":"growth in the region. More specifically to the City of"},{"t":654,"text":"Victoria, the traditional kind of ratio has been 75 percent"},{"t":657,"text":"of hotel stock in the core to make sure it's"},{"t":659,"text":"a walkable environment with the iconic inner harbour and all"},{"t":662,"text":"the, you know, areas around the convention centre. And then"},{"t":665,"text":"roughly 25 percent of the inventory in the suburbs of"},{"t":667,"text":"course that's guided by Mark of forces. But the clustering"},{"t":671,"text":"of Visitor Economy amenities is also very important for visitor"},{"t":675,"text":"experiences. So on the screen was the participants. It was"},{"t":678,"text":"a very active group. Staff who participated are welcome to"},{"t":681,"text":"share their own experiences. Um, but the power of the"},{"t":684,"text":"group was also, you know, being there with financiers, um,"},{"t":688,"text":"indigenous economic development groups, uh, developers, um, municipal staff, hotel"},{"t":693,"text":"associations, consultants, um, it was the sharing of information that"},{"t":696,"text":"was as rich, if not richer than the actual report"},{"t":698,"text":"or the recommendations that came out of the report itself."},{"t":702,"text":"As I mentioned, uh, there is an inventory gap. Is"},{"t":705,"text":"a strategic issue. Um, and of course we always separate"},{"t":708,"text":"this from short term vacation rentals because the business at"},{"t":710,"text":"war and which is bidding on sports tourism events and"},{"t":713,"text":"conferences and things that are very high yield. And off"},{"t":715,"text":"season require full service hotels with front desks and amenities"},{"t":719,"text":"and security and things of that nature as opposed to"},{"t":721,"text":"just necessarily the leisure visiting friends and relatives and medical"},{"t":724,"text":"type travel, which is across other, other, uh, sectors. One"},{"t":729,"text":"of the things I wanted to mention was the learning"},{"t":732,"text":"around the table. Of course we're in the business and"},{"t":734,"text":"we understand different typologies of hotels. And there are many"},{"t":738,"text":"more than what's on the screen now. But ourselves and"},{"t":741,"text":"the consultants who also worked on the Vancouver Hotel Development"},{"t":743,"text":"Working Group, which has been very catalytic, um, shared with,"},{"t":747,"text":"you know, whether it be City staff or other people"},{"t":748,"text":"involved that there are actually different types of hotels that"},{"t":750,"text":"have different business models serving different market niches and resubable"},{"t":753,"text":"for different types of communities. So, you know, as we"},{"t":756,"text":"go through that, I particularly want to highlight for this"},{"t":758,"text":"table, the Strategic Importance of Conference Hotels. And that's different"},{"t":762,"text":"from a conference centre. A conference hotel is defined as,"},{"t":766,"text":"in our case, 4, 000 square feet of meeting space"},{"t":768,"text":"or more. And the reason they're so important is that"},{"t":771,"text":"the model's very, very challenging from an upfront perspective, but"},{"t":776,"text":"they provide so much business in terms of year -"},{"t":778,"text":"round business. They generate their own demand and they provide"},{"t":780,"text":"tremendous community vitality year round and are really, really stimulative"},{"t":784,"text":"to neighbourhoods. And when one's built, it's a hundred plus"},{"t":786,"text":"year investment. So as you start to receive, um, uh,"},{"t":790,"text":"development applications. I know there's going to be some efforts"},{"t":792,"text":"and some, some case study or some pilot projects. I"},{"t":796,"text":"would really ask you to keep your eye on that"},{"t":797,"text":"class. You know, we kind of need one or two."},{"t":799,"text":"The harbour towers was one and it held a lot"},{"t":801,"text":"of meetings and had meeting space kind of under the"},{"t":803,"text":"radar. And we really do miss it. So, um, you"},{"t":806,"text":"know, it's important thing to flag. Um, and in spite"},{"t":810,"text":"of doing very, very, very well, um, in terms of"},{"t":813,"text":"revenue, um, uh, in these years, um, you know, it's"},{"t":818,"text":"still a financially, very challenging model. There's different from residential."},{"t":824,"text":"We're developers can be kind of in and out with"},{"t":826,"text":"their investment more quickly. Um, and there's some, some, uh,"},{"t":829,"text":"some factors here. What the report itself dives into more"},{"t":832,"text":"deeply. You know, as we'll pass over to Jeremy now"},{"t":838,"text":"to dive into some of his, uh, his pieces. Mayor"},{"t":846,"text":"and Council, thanks for the opportunity to present. And again,"},{"t":849,"text":"uh, City staff led by, by Jocelyn, really appreciate the"},{"t":853,"text":"collaboration on this, um, on this working group. Um, I'm"},{"t":857,"text":"going to talk a little bit about the, uh, Community"},{"t":860,"text":"and Economic benefits of hotels. That was one of the"},{"t":862,"text":"goals of the working group was to, uh, build awareness"},{"t":865,"text":"around the community and economic benefits. Among the members, so"},{"t":869,"text":"creating that shared understanding around the table, uh, the public"},{"t":872,"text":"as well as potential investors. So beyond providing accommodation for"},{"t":876,"text":"visitors, as we all understand, hotels function as Community Hubs,"},{"t":881,"text":"fill and philanthropic partners, event infrastructure, this port local charities,"},{"t":886,"text":"cultural programming, emergency management and civic gatherings. Um, and then"},{"t":890,"text":"the economic impact, of course, is on everybody's mind when"},{"t":893,"text":"we're thinking about new hotels. So based on the projected"},{"t":896,"text":"delivery of 2000 net new hotel rooms, uh, the economic"},{"t":899,"text":"impact would be very significant. The analysis, the working group"},{"t":903,"text":"conducted showed that these rooms would sport roughly 2, 760"},{"t":907,"text":"jobs across the economy, generate about 85 million an annual"},{"t":911,"text":"wages and drive more than 100 million in net new"},{"t":914,"text":"annual visitor spending. That means more year round employment in"},{"t":918,"text":"hotel operations and related sectors, uh, throughout the supply chain"},{"t":922,"text":"and more spending in local restaurants, shops and attractions throughout"},{"t":925,"text":"the year. Hotel and development at this scale is not"},{"t":928,"text":"just about adding rooms. It's about meaningful. It's a meaningful"},{"t":931,"text":"generator of jobs. Local business activity and public revenue. Um,"},{"t":936,"text":"going to talk, uh, go back just one piece is"},{"t":941,"text":"just talking about the financial feasibility of hotels. So, um,"},{"t":944,"text":"we did as part of this working group, we did"},{"t":947,"text":"an analysis, um, of what will it take to get"},{"t":950,"text":"hotels over the line? Because as Paul was starting to"},{"t":952,"text":"mention, um, hotels are doing well right now. We had"},{"t":956,"text":"close to 80 percent year round occupancy last year. Some"},{"t":960,"text":"of the highest ADR, which is average daily room rate,"},{"t":963,"text":"um, growth across Canada last year. But even with that"},{"t":967,"text":"successful year, um, they're still marginal at best. And we"},{"t":971,"text":"found that especially in particularly the typologies of hotels that"},{"t":975,"text":"you would see downtown, uh, being full service hotels or"},{"t":979,"text":"conference hotels. They are, they're hard. They're hard to get"},{"t":982,"text":"over their heart to get over the line. And that's"},{"t":984,"text":"why we haven't seen a new hotel downtown built and"},{"t":988,"text":"opened in the last 20 years. Um, Paul mentioned the"},{"t":991,"text":"Hyatt on broad street. So we do have one, one"},{"t":994,"text":"successful hotel, um, but in our, in our modelling, even"},{"t":997,"text":"that one wasn't particularly relevant because it's on leased land."},{"t":1001,"text":"So it doesn't factor in, uh, land purchase in the"},{"t":1004,"text":"same way that, uh, other sites would need to. So"},{"t":1007,"text":"just wanted to mention that. And that's why really, uh,"},{"t":1009,"text":"what we found was that even in this great time"},{"t":1013,"text":"for, for tourism in the last year, um, it does"},{"t":1016,"text":"need process or policy support to get it over the"},{"t":1019,"text":"line. So Paul mentioned how hotels can be catalytic and"},{"t":1026,"text":"we're seeing that already with the Hyatt site. So just"},{"t":1029,"text":"ask you to imagine what that might look like if"},{"t":1031,"text":"we had a number of sites through downtown. We have"},{"t":1034,"text":"greater lighting and animation and activation at street level. And"},{"t":1038,"text":"in the retail space, um, and so this really could"},{"t":1041,"text":"be a near future possibility for downtown if, uh, realised"},{"t":1045,"text":"that 70 percent or And with that, I'll walk through"},{"t":1051,"text":"at a high level, the recommendations of the working group,"},{"t":1054,"text":"um, and, uh, with specific attention to the ones that"},{"t":1058,"text":"are most relevant to the city Victoria. So the goals"},{"t":1061,"text":"here of these recommendations to deliver the 2000 net new"},{"t":1064,"text":"rooms across greater Victoria, reduce risk for hotel development to"},{"t":1069,"text":"make it viable and to protect existing supply of hotels,"},{"t":1073,"text":"which wasn't something we came into the working group, um,"},{"t":1076,"text":"as a goal, um, but when we did the analysis"},{"t":1078,"text":"and saw that, uh, such a high percentage of the"},{"t":1081,"text":"hotel inventory is older than 50 years, um, and will"},{"t":1084,"text":"require reinvestment that there actually may be public policy tools"},{"t":1087,"text":"that are needed to support that retention. Uh, so recommendation"},{"t":1092,"text":"one is starting with a tool that you're all very"},{"t":1096,"text":"familiar with, which is looking at land use and zoning"},{"t":1100,"text":"and the potential tools that local governments have. Um, so"},{"t":1104,"text":"the report found that hotel development is not limited by"},{"t":1107,"text":"demand, but by whether viable sites are actually enabled. And"},{"t":1111,"text":"so, and analysis that working group conducted showed that there"},{"t":1115,"text":"were 1, 400 sites where hotels are currently permitted in"},{"t":1118,"text":"the city of Victoria. But roughly 80 percent of those"},{"t":1121,"text":"sites are too small to support a viable project. So"},{"t":1124,"text":"Victoria's specific recommendations that include land use and zoning include"},{"t":1130,"text":"targeted density flexibility on smaller downtown sites. More flexibility on"},{"t":1134,"text":"larger mixed use sites downtown to enable hotel integration. Um,"},{"t":1139,"text":"in short, the recommendations are about ensuring the enough sites"},{"t":1142,"text":"where viable hotel projects could actually move forward. Uh, recommendation"},{"t":1147,"text":"two is about addressing permitting complexities. Uh, we haven't had"},{"t":1150,"text":"a hotel built in 20 years. And so, uh, some"},{"t":1155,"text":"of the processes and learnings of that have supported getting"},{"t":1159,"text":"a lot of new housing over the line, I think"},{"t":1162,"text":"can be applied. Um, in, in terms of hotel development."},{"t":1165,"text":"So it's learning from best practices that local governments are"},{"t":1168,"text":"already adopting. But with that, hotel design, it sits at"},{"t":1172,"text":"the intersection of municipal requirements and hotel operational needs, including"},{"t":1178,"text":"brand requirements, which was a big learning for me. And"},{"t":1180,"text":"I think others at the table, um, and when those"},{"t":1183,"text":"expectations are not clear, uh, projects can go through multiple"},{"t":1186,"text":"rounds of redesign. And that iterative processes is costly and"},{"t":1191,"text":"risky. So the report found that, um, even when the"},{"t":1194,"text":"projects are supported in principle, they can stall when uncertainty"},{"t":1199,"text":"occurs in the approvals process. So one common friction point"},{"t":1204,"text":"for hotels that isn't, that is different than, than other"},{"t":1206,"text":"typologies of buildings is hotel street interface, uh, where unclear"},{"t":1211,"text":"expectations around drop off, loading and street level design can"},{"t":1215,"text":"add delay. So developers basically, they want to know as"},{"t":1218,"text":"early as possible where there's flexibility and where the. So"},{"t":1222,"text":"they can plan accordingly. And a practical solution that came"},{"t":1225,"text":"up around the table is the idea of, uh, early"},{"t":1227,"text":"preset mission workshops with all relevant city departments, uh, to"},{"t":1231,"text":"set expectations up front and reduce back and forth. The"},{"t":1235,"text":"third recommendation is around education and technical support. And this"},{"t":1240,"text":"one came up more from some of the smaller local"},{"t":1243,"text":"governments around the region that just don't have the same"},{"t":1246,"text":"internal capacity that City, the City of Victoria does. So"},{"t":1249,"text":"for, for the City Victoria, this isn't about, uh, so"},{"t":1251,"text":"much capacity, um, it's, it's more about specialization. And so,"},{"t":1257,"text":"uh, making sure that city staff have access to the,"},{"t":1260,"text":"uh, education information tools they need to make decisions specific"},{"t":1265,"text":"to hotel development. Recommendation four, this is about First Nations"},{"t":1271,"text":"partnerships. And First Nations partner, First Nations, as you all"},{"t":1275,"text":"know, are key economic development partners. They're landowners and rights"},{"t":1280,"text":"holders. And so across BC, we're already seeing, uh, leading"},{"t":1287,"text":"First Nations leading and partnering in hotel developments through a"},{"t":1290,"text":"range of models. And this, these recommendations here about supporting"},{"t":1294,"text":"earlier, more structured engagement, ensuring projects are developed with meaningful"},{"t":1298,"text":"participation and shared benefit. And, um, this is important because"},{"t":1302,"text":"local nations have, uh, clear hotel development ambitions. And this"},{"t":1306,"text":"work is intended to support those opportunities moving forward. And"},{"t":1311,"text":"then recommendation five is about investment attraction. Um, it's very"},{"t":1315,"text":"competitive. And so this is about having a, essentially a"},{"t":1320,"text":"regional collaborative approach and making sure that we are attracting,"},{"t":1324,"text":"uh, the, the investment and the attention of the very"},{"t":1327,"text":"small pool of investors and developers who have the experience"},{"t":1330,"text":"and are already building hotels. And, uh, the final set"},{"t":1335,"text":"of recommendations, um, specific to the City Victoria, and, uh,"},{"t":1340,"text":"this is about establishing, supporting, supportive policy and financial tools"},{"t":1344,"text":"for hotel conversion in revitalization. Um, downtown has a number"},{"t":1349,"text":"of office buildings and heritage buildings. And so what the"},{"t":1353,"text":"analysis that the working group conducted, uh, showed that there"},{"t":1357,"text":"is a limited, but meaningful potential for office conversion into"},{"t":1362,"text":"hotels. We're seeing that success in that model in other"},{"t":1365,"text":"cities, including Calgary. And then for conversion of Heritage properties,"},{"t":1372,"text":"that's very attractive for things like boutique hotels, but there"},{"t":1375,"text":"are some policy levers that the city has that could"},{"t":1378,"text":"help these become more viable. Um, because they are very"},{"t":1381,"text":"complex projects. Um, and so the recommendation is to support"},{"t":1385,"text":"this with targeted tools, including expanded Heritage grants, tax revitalization"},{"t":1390,"text":"incentives to help offset seismic upgrades that are triggered by"},{"t":1394,"text":"change in use and targeted density incentives. So in practical"},{"t":1397,"text":"terms, this helps maintain supply while new projects come forward."},{"t":1401,"text":"Um, and brings underutilized buildings back into active use. So"},{"t":1406,"text":"to wrap up, um, yeah, just want to say that"},{"t":1409,"text":"City Victoria showed the staff showed great leadership and collaboration"},{"t":1413,"text":"as part of the working group. Um, and it was,"},{"t":1416,"text":"uh, and then even outside of meetings, um, having our,"},{"t":1420,"text":"our consultants meet with planning staff and make sure the"},{"t":1423,"text":"recommendations are, are realistic and practical. Um, and has just"},{"t":1428,"text":"been, I think it illustrative of the strong partnership that"},{"t":1431,"text":"we have. Um, and so in terms of the opportunity"},{"t":1436,"text":"here, we know that our study showed that we would"},{"t":1443,"text":"like that to, um, continue to be in the City"},{"t":1445,"text":"Victoria. So that'd be 1500 new rooms in the next"},{"t":1448,"text":"decade. Um, and so that having that policy in place"},{"t":1452,"text":"is helpful to attract the investment, but there's risk that"},{"t":1455,"text":"without policy and process changes, um, a disproportionate number of"},{"t":1458,"text":"the new rooms could be built in other municipalities who"},{"t":1460,"text":"are really, uh, fighting to get hotels built. Um, so"},{"t":1464,"text":"missing, which would miss out on the Community Economic in"},{"t":1466,"text":"downtown vibrancy benefits. So with that, just want to say"},{"t":1469,"text":"thank you for the ongoing partnership. And we look forward"},{"t":1472,"text":"to working together to implement the recommendations and capitalize on"},{"t":1475,"text":"this important opportunity. And with that open to any questions"},{"t":1480,"text":"through the chair, if there are any folder, do you"},{"t":1484,"text":"want to say anything else before? No. Thank you both"},{"t":1486,"text":"for that, uh, really fascinating and it's good to hear"},{"t":1488,"text":"that you're working so well with our staff. Um, Jocelyn,"},{"t":1491,"text":"do you want to add anything at this point? I"},{"t":1493,"text":"just thought, cause I know that you've been working very"},{"t":1494,"text":"closely with them. Through you mayor. No, I don't have"},{"t":1498,"text":"anything to add specifically other than to say, I think"},{"t":1501,"text":"this is a perfect example and probably a template on"},{"t":1504,"text":"how we can work together with user groups. So thank"},{"t":1507,"text":"you. Thank you for that. Uh, this is an information"},{"t":1509,"text":"session for us. There's no recommendations for us to consider"},{"t":1513,"text":"today. Although clearly there are a number of considerations for"},{"t":1516,"text":"us to look at as we move through other work"},{"t":1519,"text":"in the near future. But certainly as an opportunity for"},{"t":1522,"text":"any questions or clarification, let's start with Councillor Dell. Councillor"},{"t":1525,"text":"Hem and Councillor Gardner Councillor Thompson. Go ahead. Uh, thank"},{"t":1528,"text":"you through the mayor. I'll just ask one question. Um,"},{"t":1531,"text":"this is a lot of good ideas. And often I'm"},{"t":1533,"text":"sitting in spots where the good ideas that it just"},{"t":1536,"text":"takes one person to actually lead it to go. We're"},{"t":1538,"text":"going to talk to the first nations and we're going"},{"t":1540,"text":"to do this. All this stuff seems very doable to"},{"t":1542,"text":"me, but my question is who is actually the point"},{"t":1546,"text":"person who's leading this, who's bringing all those folks together."},{"t":1549,"text":"Is that you guys and what are your next steps"},{"t":1551,"text":"and actually tangible next step? Cause I see, you know,"},{"t":1555,"text":"the first thing rezoning. Okay. Yeah. We can do that."},{"t":1557,"text":"We can do site specific rezoning. That happens all the"},{"t":1560,"text":"time. Um, so what's the kind of process of leading"},{"t":1563,"text":"this work to make sure it actually happens? Oh. Yeah."},{"t":1568,"text":"So. As your official. Driven board, Destiny. Organisation, receptive result,"},{"t":1574,"text":"as the industry leaders on this, obviously we don't have"},{"t":1577,"text":"any kind of government mandate. Thank you very much. Thank"},{"t":1579,"text":"you for that. Um, you know, one option, we did"},{"t":1584,"text":"prepare as if, um, as if, uh, we would be"},{"t":1587,"text":"asked like what would a motion be, you know, if"},{"t":1589,"text":"a question came and, you know, a very basic motion"},{"t":1591,"text":"could be that, um, council if they wish to pursue"},{"t":1594,"text":"this more formally as staff to examine the implications and"},{"t":1599,"text":"options around these six recommendations and report back. And you"},{"t":1602,"text":"can take that or leave it for future meetings. Um,"},{"t":1604,"text":"but we also don't want to impose undue work on"},{"t":1607,"text":"your staff as well either. Um, because we know the"},{"t":1609,"text":"interface between working with your staff, which we do today"},{"t":1611,"text":"and the kind of the more political realm. So that"},{"t":1613,"text":"would be, you know, if you want to drive as"},{"t":1615,"text":"a little further from a council's perspective, but we are"},{"t":1617,"text":"actively working on this. We will be going to hotelvestment"},{"t":1620,"text":"conference, um, investment conferences in the fall. Your teams are"},{"t":1624,"text":"welcome to join us. You know, there's, um, there's, the"},{"t":1627,"text":"different ways of approaching this. But we have a hotel"},{"t":1629,"text":"development perspective. We're interfacing with developers all the time. And"},{"t":1632,"text":"we're encouraging them to engage with your staff all the"},{"t":1634,"text":"time and hoping that through these, you know, we've heard"},{"t":1637,"text":"about pilot projects and things like that, that some applications"},{"t":1640,"text":"may come for your consideration or some projects may come"},{"t":1642,"text":"for your consideration, hopefully, uh, fairly timely fashion. Thank you."},{"t":1647,"text":"Thank you, telling anything else. Councillor Hammond. Thanks, Mayor and"},{"t":1652,"text":"thanks for the presentation. When you talked about the financial"},{"t":1656,"text":"difficulties, I just went back on my notes to May"},{"t":1660,"text":"of last year and right across the street at the"},{"t":1664,"text":"hotel address, the 603 Pandora. And staff had suggested or"},{"t":1671,"text":"recommended that we decline. And as a matter of fact,"},{"t":1674,"text":"the vote was seven to decline. I was one of"},{"t":1676,"text":"those who also declined. I also remember meeting with the"},{"t":1679,"text":"proponents. And I'm saying, look, I'm not a guy who"},{"t":1682,"text":"should rely on what something looks like. However, it was"},{"t":1686,"text":"one of these things in which we were told that"},{"t":1689,"text":"in order to make this work, it's got to be"},{"t":1692,"text":"big. And so in this particular spot, it was considered"},{"t":1697,"text":"too big and a number of other reasons. And it's"},{"t":1700,"text":"not to pick on that. You know, hopefully something else,"},{"t":1702,"text":"um, will come to fruition. But what do you say"},{"t":1707,"text":"about the, um, when we're being told in order for"},{"t":1711,"text":"it to be economically viable, because you talked about the"},{"t":1713,"text":"economic challenges different from a rental or, you know, housing,"},{"t":1721,"text":"what do you see needs to happen in order to"},{"t":1723,"text":"get past that idea that it's got to be something"},{"t":1725,"text":"bigger than maybe under certain circumstances. Counsel and therefore the"},{"t":1730,"text":"city, um, is, is not going to, is not going"},{"t":1733,"text":"to want. Yeah. I mean, on each specific, each site"},{"t":1737,"text":"will have its own considerations economically, but I think the"},{"t":1739,"text":"high level principles that we can get to. I think"},{"t":1742,"text":"the other thing to, um, I'll comment on and I"},{"t":1745,"text":"may receive an email or call from that particular proponent."},{"t":1749,"text":"That property chose to be mid - range in the"},{"t":1750,"text":"market. Uh, that was a deliberate choice on there of"},{"t":1753,"text":"their part. And, uh, that would affect kind of the"},{"t":1756,"text":"overall commercial model of that market. Do you know, the"},{"t":1760,"text":"other reality is that the Viser economy has moved up"},{"t":1763,"text":"scale worldwide in the last 10 years. So I think"},{"t":1766,"text":"in similar site, something with a higher design and maybe"},{"t":1768,"text":"a higher spec may bridge that or be able to"},{"t":1771,"text":"thread that needle in terms of what council and staff"},{"t":1775,"text":"are looking for on a site such as that, um,"},{"t":1778,"text":"and, uh, economic model. So, I mean, that's where the"},{"t":1782,"text":"honest back and forth. I know the new proponent now,"},{"t":1784,"text":"uh, we're engaged with that proponent. I shouldn't really speak"},{"t":1786,"text":"too much, but I'm, we're encouraging them to go with"},{"t":1789,"text":"strong amenities that the city would like to see, right?"},{"t":1792,"text":"Whether that be meeting space, community space, all that type"},{"t":1794,"text":"of stuff. So when that development works its way through"},{"t":1796,"text":"planning process back to you, I know the act of"},{"t":1798,"text":"work on that site right now under a different proponent."},{"t":1800,"text":"So each site is different. And you know, this work"},{"t":1803,"text":"was to help reduce kind of that information gap. We"},{"t":1806,"text":"always talk in governments between information gap between management and"},{"t":1810,"text":"boards or proponents at councils, um, and I think this"},{"t":1813,"text":"process helped address that. Councillor Gardner."},{"t":1824,"text":"Am I on? Yes, thank you very much. And thank"},{"t":1826,"text":"you for the presentation. Excuse me. Um, I just picked"},{"t":1830,"text":"up some of your points. I'm going to ask questions"},{"t":1832,"text":"about kind of what you already spoke about. Uh, I"},{"t":1835,"text":"appreciate very much the, uh, what we said that we"},{"t":1837,"text":"need to walk in environment. And as you know, yesterday"},{"t":1840,"text":"DVA just issued a report stating a priority or a"},{"t":1843,"text":"shortfall of downtown is parking in difficulty for those in"},{"t":1846,"text":"vehicles to access to hometown. So how do you reconcile"},{"t":1850,"text":"these competing asks. Paul? Yeah. Absolutely. And, uh, whenever Jeff"},{"t":1856,"text":"and I, we, Jeff and I, Jeffrey and I were"},{"t":1857,"text":"on a call yesterday and we recognise our different mandate."},{"t":1860,"text":"So the DVBA talks about marketing from Suk to Sydney"},{"t":1862,"text":"to attract local business to downtown. And that requires a"},{"t":1865,"text":"lot of parking and an RNR strategic game is to"},{"t":1868,"text":"attract visitors, whether it be conference sport or otherwise motow"},{"t":1870,"text":"down. And they may come on the clipper or air"},{"t":1872,"text":"or otherwise. And they may or may not be quire"},{"t":1874,"text":"a car with each room rented. So, um, you know,"},{"t":1879,"text":"I think when we were looking at parking, there are"},{"t":1881,"text":"different ways to achieve that, uh, for a hotel. It"},{"t":1883,"text":"could be an offsite valet such as the best question"},{"t":1885,"text":"Carlton and others. Um, and we have guests coming on"},{"t":1888,"text":"the clipper or guests flying in. So I think the"},{"t":1891,"text":"discussion point around the committee table is that not every"},{"t":1894,"text":"room needs a dedicated parking sol associated with it. Um,"},{"t":1897,"text":"and kind of to look at it more holistically. So"},{"t":1900,"text":"yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I wasn't thinking of the parking"},{"t":1902,"text":"straws for hotels. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking of street"},{"t":1905,"text":"use if you convert to more residential or walking, of"},{"t":1910,"text":"course, because we're getting as the competing interest is people"},{"t":1912,"text":"who want to, who live here or work here and"},{"t":1916,"text":"in other municipalities to come into our city. That's right."},{"t":1918,"text":"So that's what I meant as opposed to stalls within"},{"t":1922,"text":"a hotel. Yeah. I mean, that's a, you know, I"},{"t":1925,"text":"don't like to comment too much on residential related parking"},{"t":1928,"text":"matters because it's just not our expertise. Yeah. Comment on"},{"t":1932,"text":"tour bus parking, but that's okay. Next time we meet."},{"t":1937,"text":"We won't be using a car, Paul. Okay. Harbour towers,"},{"t":1942,"text":"the James. And I really appreciate your comment on that."},{"t":1947,"text":"Now when it came up for renewal, i. e. the"},{"t":1951,"text":"owners of the actual building. So I'm talking several years"},{"t":1953,"text":"ago. They very much expressed that it was no longer"},{"t":1957,"text":"usable as a hotel the way it was. And their"},{"t":1959,"text":"interior large space and it was large BC elections used"},{"t":1962,"text":"to use. It's a huge space. But it could not"},{"t":1965,"text":"compete with a conference centre and it was very outdated."},{"t":1968,"text":"So they actually had a competition of two different designers"},{"t":1971,"text":"or designers. One doing a hotel one doing residential and"},{"t":1975,"text":"the residential one for various reasons. That was their choice."},{"t":1979,"text":"So are there any other hotels already in the city?"},{"t":1983,"text":"And I don't mean the motels in the north end."},{"t":1985,"text":"Are there any other hotels that might be in the"},{"t":1987,"text":"position such that you might lose them because they are"},{"t":1990,"text":"outdated in that way. And essentially can't compete with the"},{"t":1993,"text":"conference centre or the newer hotels. Yeah. I think that's"},{"t":1996,"text":"an ongoing risk. I don't want to speak to any"},{"t":1998,"text":"individual properties in a public domain, but that's a great"},{"t":2000,"text":"example. Cause I know that property transacted several times before"},{"t":2003,"text":"they landed on the new design. There was some foundation"},{"t":2006,"text":"stuff. And some elevator alignment things as well too. And"},{"t":2009,"text":"the broader stories I was at hotels can age out"},{"t":2011,"text":"where they no longer meet the amenity level expected of"},{"t":2013,"text":"a guest at a certain star level. And I think"},{"t":2015,"text":"a classic example is the four seasons hotel in Vancouver."},{"t":2019,"text":"Just walked away from their lease in downtown Vancouver because"},{"t":2021,"text":"they could no longer be a four season in the"},{"t":2022,"text":"envelope that they were in. Right. And so, um, that's"},{"t":2025,"text":"why we do need newer hotels to replace other hotels."},{"t":2030,"text":"And then what was a 25 year old hotel will"},{"t":2032,"text":"kind of move in the star ranking so that all"},{"t":2035,"text":"different segments of customers can kind of fall into their,"},{"t":2038,"text":"their, their ability to compete within, um, in that space."},{"t":2043,"text":"So I do think there are hotels at risk, but"},{"t":2045,"text":"I don't want to speak for their owners because that's"},{"t":2047,"text":"just not for me to do. Yeah. Okay. I just,"},{"t":2049,"text":"cause I recognise that issue that the challenge that the"},{"t":2052,"text":"owners have there. Also spoke about kind of the downtown"},{"t":2057,"text":"area to, in a different way, cascadia did a great"},{"t":2060,"text":"visioning thing a dozen years ago. Are you tied into"},{"t":2063,"text":"that or is that if dad project that occurred? It"},{"t":2067,"text":"was a wonderful visioning of the whole downtown. And no,"},{"t":2072,"text":"not you guys. Oh, I remember it. Okay. It was"},{"t":2076,"text":"about 12 years ago. Anyway. Um, I've been to Japan"},{"t":2079,"text":"a few times when my late husband was lecturing there."},{"t":2083,"text":"And, uh, very interesting country. And what I found was"},{"t":2086,"text":"in a lot of the cities, they had, uh, and"},{"t":2088,"text":"you had mentioned zoning. They had very much a mixed"},{"t":2091,"text":"use. So the bottom floor or two, because they had"},{"t":2095,"text":"different, you know, usually the lower two floors for retail"},{"t":2099,"text":"with fancy things in between. And then the next level"},{"t":2103,"text":"was hotel, you know, five to 15 stories. And then"},{"t":2107,"text":"was residential. And so is that the kind of, uh,"},{"t":2114,"text":"mixed use that you would be thinking of? Because I"},{"t":2116,"text":"thought it was a brilliant idea when I saw it."},{"t":2118,"text":"Yeah, that's very common with new hotel builds to help"},{"t":2121,"text":"de - risk it a little bit. You see a"},{"t":2122,"text":"lot of that in Vancouver, Burnby and other places. And"},{"t":2124,"text":"as a tourism board, we'd be open to that. We"},{"t":2126,"text":"also need to recognise that we do need some meeting"},{"t":2128,"text":"space as well too, right? So it's a mix. It's"},{"t":2131,"text":"a blend. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, um. We've, we've approved"},{"t":2138,"text":"umpting thousand of units right now. And a lot of"},{"t":2141,"text":"in towers. Has there been any discussion with the ones"},{"t":2143,"text":"that approved maybe tweak that, uh, I'm thinking of, I"},{"t":2148,"text":"mean, not to name anyone, but you know, where we"},{"t":2149,"text":"have multiple towers that were approved in a project be"},{"t":2153,"text":"at the starlight or, or, uh, David Charz, or I"},{"t":2156,"text":"don't know, I guess charge is called now, not David's,"},{"t":2158,"text":"uh, charge development where they have multi - towers. Has"},{"t":2161,"text":"there been any thought of, uh, from the hotel industry"},{"t":2164,"text":"of perhaps partnering with the zoning that has been approved,"},{"t":2168,"text":"but maybe shifting it into that kind of a model,"},{"t":2171,"text":"a mixed use. I haven't heard any, but that's an"},{"t":2174,"text":"interesting idea. I just haven't, we just haven't had any"},{"t":2176,"text":"of those come across our desks that I can remember."},{"t":2178,"text":"Yeah. Cause we get several towers that have been built."},{"t":2180,"text":"And I'm just in the downtime. Yeah. I just haven't"},{"t":2183,"text":"seen it. I just throw it out to you. You"},{"t":2185,"text":"can think about it. Uh, and my only, uh, really,"},{"t":2189,"text":"so that's great. So, uh, the Calgary reuse of did"},{"t":2192,"text":"a lot of reading on that over the time. And"},{"t":2194,"text":"of course it depends on the structure of the building,"},{"t":2196,"text":"whether it's possible. So is anyone actually assessing any of"},{"t":2199,"text":"the downtown buildings now for that? Yeah, we've heard a"},{"t":2201,"text":"lot of that. And I mean, I'll use a Vancouver"},{"t":2203,"text":"example where Le Germain is, um, is, um, uh, and"},{"t":2207,"text":"Stovell is converting in downtown Vancouver office. Um, I know"},{"t":2211,"text":"that's a brand that would like to get into Victoria,"},{"t":2213,"text":"um, you know, I think the other applicants that are"},{"t":2216,"text":"looking, I understand kind of well - known building with"},{"t":2218,"text":"recently purchased. And one of their stated possibilities was hotel"},{"t":2221,"text":"conversion. So I think there's really discussions in that space"},{"t":2225,"text":"happening or underway now. Okay. So we may see something"},{"t":2228,"text":"in the next couple of years. Yeah. Okay. That's very"},{"t":2230,"text":"interesting. It may be very useful. You know, when people"},{"t":2234,"text":"are just testing the waters, we're kind of in that"},{"t":2237,"text":"phase now. Yeah. Because beyond testing the waters, it has"},{"t":2239,"text":"to be whether the building can be done. So people"},{"t":2243,"text":"are doing that. Yeah. Great. We're just talking about not"},{"t":2246,"text":"actually assessing the buildings at this point. Got it. Okay."},{"t":2252,"text":"And, um, final, the heritage, what we ran into in"},{"t":2256,"text":"Pandora was, of course, Old Town. And Old Town is"},{"t":2259,"text":"important for the hotelier industry not to be in it,"},{"t":2261,"text":"but to be able, their clientele to access it. So,"},{"t":2266,"text":"um, what happened after that, uh, Pandora, after we, after"},{"t":2272,"text":"council, declined that application, did you get a feeling in"},{"t":2276,"text":"the local industry that they understood what happened and why?"},{"t":2281,"text":"Yes. Yes. And I think, um, uh, I think it"},{"t":2287,"text":"was a bold attempt to bring mid - range properties"},{"t":2290,"text":"into the market. And that proponent deserves credit for that"},{"t":2294,"text":"effort. I think there's within the peer group of hotels"},{"t":2297,"text":"that like to see a high design hotel on that"},{"t":2299,"text":"site if they would to complement. We have a strong"},{"t":2301,"text":"reputation in this, in this community for very high quality"},{"t":2304,"text":"hotels, whether it be the Empress of Magnolia, the in"},{"t":2307,"text":"Laurel Point, you know, it's not in Victoria, but Obi"},{"t":2310,"text":"BH Hotels. And then everyone benefits from the brand glow"},{"t":2313,"text":"of that. So that's a, it's important site. And I"},{"t":2315,"text":"think within the peer group and certainly around it, if"},{"t":2319,"text":"you do receive another application that's very well designed, I"},{"t":2322,"text":"think the kind of peer support. Again, thank you very"},{"t":2325,"text":"much for both of you coming today. And thank you"},{"t":2327,"text":"for your report. Councillor Thompson. Uh, thanks Mary. Yeah. Thanks"},{"t":2333,"text":"very much. Um, uh, for, for coming here and speaking"},{"t":2337,"text":"with us, I, uh, I would love to see more"},{"t":2340,"text":"hotel proposals coming forward to support the tourism industry, but"},{"t":2344,"text":"also to support downtown vibrancy in an era of work"},{"t":2348,"text":"from home. Thanks for mentioning the, uh, the office building"},{"t":2354,"text":"possibility I was going to ask about that. I don't"},{"t":2355,"text":"need to now. On the policy changes where we should"},{"t":2359,"text":"be focusing, um, I, the high level direction that you're"},{"t":2363,"text":"giving sounds really good to me. Not having been involved"},{"t":2366,"text":"in those discussions. Um, you mentioned the possibility of bringing"},{"t":2370,"text":"Council Member Motion. I'm certainly very willing to work on"},{"t":2374,"text":"that motion. Um, just wondering with regard to the specific"},{"t":2378,"text":"policy changes, how far did you get into it? I"},{"t":2382,"text":"get the direction agree with the direction, but do you"},{"t":2384,"text":"have some detailed policy stuff worked out or is that"},{"t":2387,"text":"to come? Well, yeah, so there were some, you know,"},{"t":2391,"text":"healthy conversation around the table and we decided for the"},{"t":2394,"text":"benefit of the paper we didn't want to be highly"},{"t":2396,"text":"controversial. Um, and we also understand that there was goodwill"},{"t":2400,"text":"and strong spirit of cooperation between staff. Um, but I"},{"t":2404,"text":"think, you know, it may be worth kind of a"},{"t":2407,"text":"conversation between yourself and staff as to how far you"},{"t":2410,"text":"want to go on some of those things. I can"},{"t":2412,"text":"share just because I was at another municipality earlier this"},{"t":2416,"text":"week. And we have committed to delegations at all five"},{"t":2418,"text":"municipalities. There was a very strong appetite from other municipalities"},{"t":2421,"text":"to be competitive in the space. So, um, you know,"},{"t":2425,"text":"they're very anxious on the property tax revenue, the Community"},{"t":2429,"text":"benefit. So I think the little bit of an arms"},{"t":2432,"text":"race here amongst the municipalities to use an analogy to"},{"t":2437,"text":"capture it. Because as we said, this is a moment"},{"t":2439,"text":"in time. You know, these types of development cycles for"},{"t":2442,"text":"hotels come once in a generation, which is why I"},{"t":2445,"text":"was quoted in the paper as a generational opportunity. And,"},{"t":2448,"text":"um, so maybe we'll leave that between yourselves or we"},{"t":2451,"text":"have a board, a pointy that we can have discussions"},{"t":2453,"text":"with. I have a regular meeting with the City manager."},{"t":2456,"text":"Um, and so we, you know, yeah. There was healthy"},{"t":2460,"text":"discussion. And of course, you have to strike a balance"},{"t":2462,"text":"between the needs of the developers and the needs of"},{"t":2465,"text":"the assistance that elect you. Right. So, um, we understand"},{"t":2467,"text":"and respect that. Always a lot of, uh, competing interests"},{"t":2471,"text":"and trade - offs needed, but, uh, Jeremy. Can I"},{"t":2474,"text":"add one thing? Yeah. Um, just that we did have"},{"t":2476,"text":"workshops with the planning staff. Um, so we that got"},{"t":2481,"text":"much more granular than the recommendations that are in here"},{"t":2484,"text":"to make sure that what is in here is not"},{"t":2486,"text":"offside and is, uh, realistic, uh, you know, we did"},{"t":2490,"text":"have a very diverse table. And so to, um, that"},{"t":2494,"text":"included lots of local governments, which are different places in"},{"t":2496,"text":"their policies. And also if you have, if you're only"},{"t":2499,"text":"going to get one hotel built, like, like, um, say,"},{"t":2502,"text":"township of a squamel, for example, you don't, you might"},{"t":2505,"text":"not need to address it at the policy level in"},{"t":2508,"text":"the same way as if you're trying to attract a"},{"t":2510,"text":"number of hotels like the City of Victoria. So, so"},{"t":2512,"text":"we had to find that trade off. Um, everyone at"},{"t":2517,"text":"the table was happy with. Just sign off on the"},{"t":2519,"text":"report. Yeah. And so, um, which I think is quite"},{"t":2522,"text":"remarkable that we had, you know, it was sort of"},{"t":2524,"text":"a, you know, around the table everyone was happy with"},{"t":2527,"text":"it. And so and willing to just see it go"},{"t":2530,"text":"forward with this wording. So that's why it's, it is"},{"t":2533,"text":"at a high level, but there was definitely discussions that"},{"t":2535,"text":"were more granular. Excellent. Okay. Thank you both. Councillor Logan."},{"t":2540,"text":"Oh, wait, hang on. Yes. Uh, go ahead, Alec. Thank"},{"t":2544,"text":"you through the mayor. Yeah. I just wanted to add"},{"t":2546,"text":"that, uh, we really appreciated the opportunity to participate in"},{"t":2551,"text":"the working group. Um, uh, and, uh, we've already sort"},{"t":2556,"text":"of taken the recommendations from the report into consideration and"},{"t":2561,"text":"taking some immediate actions in terms of, um, piloting some"},{"t":2564,"text":"of the process suggestions with active hotel applications of which"},{"t":2570,"text":"we have six right now in the City of Victoria."},{"t":2573,"text":"And there are other, um, serious inquiries that we're handling."},{"t":2577,"text":"So they're perhaps hopefully will be more applications coming soon."},{"t":2582,"text":"Um, and we're, uh, we're developing some interim actions, recommendations"},{"t":2587,"text":"on some interim actions that we hope to bring forward"},{"t":2590,"text":"to Council shortly, uh, while we also continue to work"},{"t":2593,"text":"on, um, other updates to our policies and regulations to,"},{"t":2599,"text":"I mean, recognise that this is an opportunity at point"},{"t":2602,"text":"in time. And we want to be able to move"},{"t":2603,"text":"quickly and capitalize on that. Thank you. And, uh, thanks"},{"t":2608,"text":"for, thanks for the addition. That's, that's great to hear."},{"t":2612,"text":"You said, uh, bringing it back shortly. Is that like"},{"t":2615,"text":"a few months type timeline or are we thinking? Mr."},{"t":2619,"text":"Johnston through the mayor. Um, hopefully before Council summer break."},{"t":2625,"text":"Okay. Great. Great. Thanks very much for that. Councillor Leuton."},{"t":2631,"text":"Uh, thanks Mayor and through you. Good morning everyone. Thanks"},{"t":2633,"text":"for the presentation. Um, it's really exciting. This kind of"},{"t":2638,"text":"rejuvenation that's possible. My question, my first question was actually"},{"t":2642,"text":"about what process staff has undertaken currently on the recommendations."},{"t":2647,"text":"So I thank staff for that answer just right now."},{"t":2651,"text":"But to drill down onto that a little bit further,"},{"t":2654,"text":"what about the zoning for hotels downtown? Is that already"},{"t":2659,"text":"in process? And if so, is there any way you"},{"t":2662,"text":"can share a bit of what that might look like?"},{"t":2665,"text":"Or do we need to wait until decap is complete?"},{"t":2668,"text":"Mr. Johnson. Through the mayor. That would be, uh, just"},{"t":2675,"text":"to foreshadowing that will be part of the sort of"},{"t":2678,"text":"immediate interim actions, uh, that we can take. The zoning"},{"t":2681,"text":"is in downtown already does permit hotels and a number"},{"t":2686,"text":"of locations. But we're looking at other sort of regulatory"},{"t":2690,"text":"dials, including zoning that we can tweak to, uh, hopefully"},{"t":2694,"text":"incentivize that. Okay. Great. And I know this is tough,"},{"t":2698,"text":"but I'm just going to ask anyway, do you think"},{"t":2700,"text":"that that is going to be enough to accommodate the"},{"t":2705,"text":"1500 rooms over the next decade. Mr. Johnson. Through the"},{"t":2713,"text":"mayor, um, it's hard to speculate on whether that would"},{"t":2716,"text":"be enough to accommodate, uh, but we would continue to"},{"t":2718,"text":"look at, uh, longer term policy, uh, changes that we"},{"t":2722,"text":"can make even outside of the downtown that support, um,"},{"t":2727,"text":"hotel development as well, to, to reach that target. Okay."},{"t":2732,"text":"And then around the conversion of Heritage buildings for Botique"},{"t":2737,"text":"Hotels, is that something that's going to be part of"},{"t":2740,"text":"the upcoming review of the Heritage program. Mr. Johnson. Through"},{"t":2746,"text":"the mayor, um, yes, I think that will also factor"},{"t":2748,"text":"into the Heritage program renewal, um, is one of those"},{"t":2751,"text":"longer term actions that we're looking to take. And I"},{"t":2754,"text":"would note that we also have right now an application,"},{"t":2757,"text":"an active application to convert a heritage office building into"},{"t":2761,"text":"a hotel. So it's very exciting to see. And yeah,"},{"t":2765,"text":"that's progressing nicely, that application. Okay. And that was another"},{"t":2769,"text":"one of my questions is what's being considered this time."},{"t":2772,"text":"And I know that's tough to comment on as well,"},{"t":2774,"text":"but would some of those examples be coming back in"},{"t":2777,"text":"the report before summer break of like what's being considered"},{"t":2781,"text":"right now and even the inquiries. I guess what I'm"},{"t":2785,"text":"trying to get at here is I just want to"},{"t":2786,"text":"sense is, is if what is happening where we're at"},{"t":2790,"text":"with what we have right now, how many rooms would"},{"t":2793,"text":"that deliver should that all come to fruition. Mr. Johnston,"},{"t":2797,"text":"is that something you can assess? It's, I know I'm"},{"t":2800,"text":"being difficult here, but I just want a sense of"},{"t":2802,"text":"where we're at through the, through the mayor, uh, we"},{"t":2805,"text":"can, I can take that back to the team and"},{"t":2807,"text":"we can see what we can provide with that, with"},{"t":2809,"text":"that interim update. Um, it's a little challenging with the"},{"t":2814,"text":"inquiries because they aren't, uh, they haven't made formal applications"},{"t":2817,"text":"yet. And we need to be careful about how much"},{"t":2821,"text":"information we share on those. Um, but, uh, for the"},{"t":2825,"text":"active applications, we can see what we can provide for"},{"t":2828,"text":"councils consideration with those interim regulatory and policy updates. Thank"},{"t":2833,"text":"you for that. That's, that's good news because there's things"},{"t":2836,"text":"happening here. So that, that's, that's exciting. Um, I just"},{"t":2840,"text":"want to just note that, um, the, the Hyatt on"},{"t":2844,"text":"broad street and it was mentioned that it was on"},{"t":2846,"text":"leased land. So it's a bit of an anomaly. And"},{"t":2848,"text":"they also had to come back and ask for a"},{"t":2851,"text":"couple of extra stories. So this is, it is very"},{"t":2853,"text":"difficult. And I think we need to do everything we"},{"t":2855,"text":"can to, to get these hotel projects off the ground."},{"t":2860,"text":"But that is going to absolutely transform broad street. The"},{"t":2865,"text":"amenities with heritage with the access for, um, arts and"},{"t":2869,"text":"culture groups and different arts organisations using the space. And"},{"t":2873,"text":"just also with how it attracted so many different businesses"},{"t":2876,"text":"opening, as you mentioned in your report. So I just"},{"t":2879,"text":"want to take a second to thank you for all"},{"t":2881,"text":"of this work for putting this, um, working group together"},{"t":2886,"text":"to come up with these recommendations. It's, it's critically important."},{"t":2890,"text":"And I think that it will contribute to the downtown"},{"t":2894,"text":"vibracy and rejuvenation that we desperately need right now in"},{"t":2898,"text":"Victoria. So thank you very much. Thank you Councillor Caradona."},{"t":2903,"text":"Thanks Mayor and thank you Jeremy and Paul for being"},{"t":2905,"text":"here. Just have two questions for you. One is about"},{"t":2908,"text":"finance. And the other one is about STRs. So maybe"},{"t":2914,"text":"starting with STRs. So as we all know, the province"},{"t":2918,"text":"has, has banned non - principal residents STRs. And I"},{"t":2921,"text":"think for a lot of people, they assume that STRs"},{"t":2923,"text":"just went away. But actually what happened is that the"},{"t":2925,"text":"STR market, if you want to call it that moved"},{"t":2928,"text":"into the principal residence, which is legal and valid and"},{"t":2931,"text":"totally copacetic. I just went on to Airbnb and typed"},{"t":2935,"text":"in some dates for November. There's over a hundred available"},{"t":2939,"text":"in November. So to STRs play any role here at"},{"t":2943,"text":"all in your plan, what's DGV's view on the legal"},{"t":2947,"text":"principal residence STRs? Where are you guys at on that?"},{"t":2951,"text":"Paul? Oh, my favourite topic. Um, so I think, uh,"},{"t":2956,"text":"from a public policy perspective, this has gone to our"},{"t":2959,"text":"committees on boards many times over the years. And I"},{"t":2961,"text":"think, uh, home sharing has been privilegiting a part of"},{"t":2965,"text":"the Visery economy well before technology platforms interface with them."},{"t":2969,"text":"Uh, and, um, working up through our transportation destination management"},{"t":2972,"text":"committee. There seems to be, there's never full agreement. Our"},{"t":2980,"text":"concerns around SDRs have been around housing and the three"},{"t":2983,"text":"percent threshold in the provincial regulation and choices could come"},{"t":2986,"text":"to Council after that. Taxation fairness, um, SDR platforms are"},{"t":2992,"text":"very involved in their efforts to mitigate human trafficking through"},{"t":2995,"text":"algorithm things. Um, but it's not the same as having"},{"t":2999,"text":"a front desk and a cameras and things of that"},{"t":3002,"text":"nature there, right? So those are kind of the high"},{"t":3004,"text":"level concerns. So short intercation rentals are fine. And we"},{"t":3008,"text":"generally feel we're in a pretty good place right now"},{"t":3010,"text":"because we get questions all the time. We have candidates"},{"t":3014,"text":"asking us that question right now as the election season"},{"t":3017,"text":"ramps up. We do track. We have a bit of"},{"t":3020,"text":"software called AirDNA. And we looked it up just the"},{"t":3022,"text":"other day. There's over 1200 Airbnb listings in the greater"},{"t":3025,"text":"Victoria area. Uh, each municipality applies to provincial short -"},{"t":3029,"text":"term vacation rental act or the short - term accommodation"},{"t":3031,"text":"act slightly differently. But there's any notion that Airbnb has"},{"t":3035,"text":"gone away entirely is just not accurate. Um, it's still"},{"t":3038,"text":"an active environment part of the mix. And, um, what"},{"t":3041,"text":"we need as a tourism board that's out there bidding"},{"t":3044,"text":"on business for the community, which books years in advance"},{"t":3047,"text":"as we do need real hotels with those amenities for"},{"t":3050,"text":"us to compete against the rest of the world and"},{"t":3052,"text":"baiting and attracting, um, business. Okay. Thanks for that. Switching"},{"t":3057,"text":"gears over to finance. I've learned a lot about how,"},{"t":3061,"text":"how housing gets financed over the last four years. A"},{"t":3064,"text":"lot of it gets back to pension plans or CMHC"},{"t":3067,"text":"or internal finance. If you follow the money on housing,"},{"t":3069,"text":"it's interesting. I don't know anything about how hotels are"},{"t":3072,"text":"financed. So I just wanted to get a sense of"},{"t":3074,"text":"what you guys have learned with the working group has"},{"t":3076,"text":"learned about how hotels or financed. And maybe secondarily, are"},{"t":3081,"text":"there any provincial or federal CMHC - like programs that"},{"t":3087,"text":"invest in hotels. Yeah, I'll make some high - level"},{"t":3090,"text":"concepts and maybe turn it over to Jeremy. This was"},{"t":3093,"text":"also very interesting to us too, because the models, because"},{"t":3096,"text":"the independently owned and operate properties, uh, brand owned and"},{"t":3100,"text":"managed properties, you know, pension funds, which own hotels and"},{"t":3104,"text":"higher brands to manage them. There's many different models. Some"},{"t":3108,"text":"are real estate investment trusts and some are families, right?"},{"t":3111,"text":"So there's a diverse range. We did have bankers or"},{"t":3114,"text":"finance professionals on the committee one or two. And they"},{"t":3118,"text":"talked a lot about the conditions that they would need"},{"t":3120,"text":"to access the debt market. Um, which was kind of"},{"t":3123,"text":"a big consideration. Um, and then we also had the"},{"t":3126,"text":"provincial government on the working group that was mostly listening"},{"t":3129,"text":"and looking for ideas to intervene at the Provincial Policy"},{"t":3131,"text":"level because I wasn't in a lot of work done"},{"t":3133,"text":"on this. Um, it's largely relied on the private equity"},{"t":3136,"text":"market or the, um, institutional equity market or, or developers,"},{"t":3141,"text":"um, what in my experience being in the business for"},{"t":3143,"text":"30 years or so is that many developers will build"},{"t":3147,"text":"a hotel and they may sell minority position to help"},{"t":3149,"text":"get it across the line or have cost inflates. And"},{"t":3152,"text":"then maybe five or 10 or 12 years later, they"},{"t":3154,"text":"may exit that position so that they can get their"},{"t":3156,"text":"money out to then reinvest in their next development project."},{"t":3159,"text":"Right. So, um, uh, hotels do transact in the marketplace."},{"t":3163,"text":"And Jeremy did was there any kind of policy tools"},{"t":3165,"text":"discussed. Just by no means an expert, but, but learned"},{"t":3170,"text":"throughout the process. Um, you know, I guess just that"},{"t":3174,"text":"it is currently harder to fund than, than housing, because"},{"t":3177,"text":"there isn't programs like CMHC that provide low cost, uh,"},{"t":3182,"text":"low cost lending. And you do, it does require more"},{"t":3185,"text":"cash up front to build a hotel. And also that"},{"t":3190,"text":"it takes a few years after it's built, um, to"},{"t":3193,"text":"build the case of business. And so there is that"},{"t":3196,"text":"stabilization period, um, with mixed with the cash up front,"},{"t":3201,"text":"um, in the high cost of development, uh, makes it"},{"t":3203,"text":"a riskier asset class to fund, but that since there"},{"t":3208,"text":"has been the downturn in the housing market as well"},{"t":3211,"text":"as, um, office. There's more attention on hotel from financial"},{"t":3215,"text":"lenders. So it is, um, there is interest and more"},{"t":3219,"text":"attention on the potential for funding hotels. And we heard"},{"t":3223,"text":"that around the table for sure. Okay. Thanks. That's helpful."},{"t":3226,"text":"I mean, I guess the, the query for me is"},{"t":3228,"text":"whether or not the city could go through all of"},{"t":3232,"text":"this policy work rezoning everything. We do our job essentially."},{"t":3236,"text":"And then the market out there is like, well, the"},{"t":3239,"text":"financing for it, is there a risk that that's going"},{"t":3242,"text":"to happen? We heard over and over again that there"},{"t":3244,"text":"was, uh, good projects would attract financing. Okay. Yeah. Thanks,"},{"t":3249,"text":"Mayor. Thanks Council Coleman. Thank you. And thank you for"},{"t":3253,"text":"the work you've done. And thank you to staff for"},{"t":3256,"text":"the engagement. Um, I think you said that the occupancy"},{"t":3261,"text":"read throughout the year for the hotels at the moment"},{"t":3264,"text":"is 80 percent. Seventy eight point two. That's, that's a"},{"t":3267,"text":"startlingly good number, unfortunately, that's because they're going through survivor"},{"t":3272,"text":"status. There's a whole bunch of rooms that have been"},{"t":3274,"text":"lost that have then aggregated to them. So as we"},{"t":3277,"text":"build more rooms, have we worked on that because it"},{"t":3280,"text":"becomes a yield management issue for the hotels. Have we"},{"t":3284,"text":"worked through what that might look like over time? Absolutely."},{"t":3286,"text":"And I think the important consideration here is staging. Um,"},{"t":3289,"text":"and, you know, obviously we need support from our hotel"},{"t":3291,"text":"association partner, Steven B. here in front of you, uh,"},{"t":3294,"text":"to have our mandate renewed just as we do from"},{"t":3296,"text":"all of you. Um, I think even our, our hotel,"},{"t":3300,"text":"uh, owners in this community are incredibly benevolent and really"},{"t":3304,"text":"big community players. And I think even, um, uh, most"},{"t":3308,"text":"of them I recognise that the market's a little bit"},{"t":3310,"text":"underserved. And they've seen kind of the erosion over time."},{"t":3313,"text":"And they want hotels at all star levels for the"},{"t":3315,"text":"guests to be satisfied. Right. So I think, um, but"},{"t":3318,"text":"what we don't want to see is a whole bunch"},{"t":3319,"text":"of hotels all at once into the marketplace. So that's"},{"t":3323,"text":"where the development application process is really kind of nice"},{"t":3325,"text":"because you have one in the ground now. And even"},{"t":3327,"text":"if a major one would be approved tomorrow, it would"},{"t":3329,"text":"still be a year and a half behind the current"},{"t":3331,"text":"one. So to get to the 1500, we're probably talking"},{"t":3334,"text":"about four to six projects if everything goes well. Right."},{"t":3337,"text":"And so there's a real opportunity to natural process of"},{"t":3340,"text":"kind of staggering them in. So there's time for the"},{"t":3343,"text":"latent demand and for us to grow demand to kind"},{"t":3345,"text":"of absorb hotels. I have seen markets like Calgary, Toronto,"},{"t":3350,"text":"where otherwise it's kind of a rush of development and"},{"t":3352,"text":"then conditions turn. You're years to build that back up."},{"t":3356,"text":"And then there, so I think we have an opportunity"},{"t":3357,"text":"now because we are a very stable and strong brand."},{"t":3360,"text":"We have ongoing business through the convention market and the"},{"t":3363,"text":"sports market that if we do this in a logical"},{"t":3365,"text":"manner, if you're approving one or two a year that"},{"t":3369,"text":"will build at a certain pace, I think we'll get"},{"t":3371,"text":"to a good place over the next decade. Thank you."},{"t":3376,"text":"Um, and that brings up the second stage for it."},{"t":3380,"text":"Because what we learned during the Da Vinci episode, um,"},{"t":3387,"text":"was that we got, we lucked out, frankly. We got"},{"t":3392,"text":"the Da Vinci Exhibit at the Royal BC Museum. And"},{"t":3395,"text":"it was supposed to go, if I remember properly from"},{"t":3398,"text":"October 31st to December 31st and then sales went crazy."},{"t":3403,"text":"Um, and we extended it until February, the target was"},{"t":3407,"text":"250, 000 visitors and we got 450, 000 in the"},{"t":3410,"text":"off season. So what's the next phase of the other"},{"t":3414,"text":"things that we'll attract. So many more people to those"},{"t":3418,"text":"extra rooms. I'm not able to comment on those publicly"},{"t":3421,"text":"right now, but we do have a plan that has"},{"t":3424,"text":"been worked on. And adjacent to that is of course"},{"t":3427,"text":"increased conference centre capacity. So same, same, same. Same comment."},{"t":3432,"text":"Same comment, yep. Perfect. Thank you for doing this. It's"},{"t":3435,"text":"extraordinary work, but we have to see it. As you"},{"t":3437,"text":"say in a staged, it doesn't go with answers we"},{"t":3441,"text":"may get before in October election. Perhaps it's about a"},{"t":3445,"text":"10 year to 25 year scan that we need to"},{"t":3447,"text":"think about. So thank you for the work you've done."},{"t":3450,"text":"Thank you very much. A final comments for anyone. Not"},{"t":3456,"text":"seeing anyway. I'll just echo our thanks collectively and individually."},{"t":3459,"text":"It's a really critical work as we look at the"},{"t":3462,"text":"diversification of our economy and our culture and our community."},{"t":3465,"text":"So thank you for everything you're doing. Excellent partners. We'll"},{"t":3468,"text":"continue to work together of course at the staff level."},{"t":3470,"text":"And when you need something from council, welcome you coming"},{"t":3472,"text":"back. Thanks very much. That will take us on to,"},{"t":3479,"text":"uh, stop reports. And the first one actually was something"},{"t":3482,"text":"that was originally on the consent agenda, but was pulled"},{"t":3485,"text":"off, I believe, for some questions. So I'm not sure"},{"t":3488,"text":"which staffer is up for this. Oh, there he is."},{"t":3491,"text":"So this is item H1. This is the recommendation for"},{"t":3493,"text":"altitude cannabis at 10, 10 Cook Street. Councillor Gardner, you"},{"t":3498,"text":"pulled this off. Do you want a presentation or do"},{"t":3500,"text":"you just have questions? I think no. I apologise. I"},{"t":3504,"text":"want a presentation on this one because we're still getting"},{"t":3507,"text":"correspondence. Very good. Ms. Changles. Do you have a presentation"},{"t":3509,"text":"you can run through with us? Mayor, if I may,"},{"t":3513,"text":"this is not something we typically prepare presentation for, but"},{"t":3515,"text":"we're happy to address any questions. Council may have. Okay."},{"t":3519,"text":"And then no quote, no presentation prepped. Why don't we"},{"t":3521,"text":"go to you Councillor Gardner for questions? Thank you. Uh,"},{"t":3526,"text":"we've had several comments in the last little while. So,"},{"t":3530,"text":"um, do you have the map of the cannabis locations"},{"t":3533,"text":"nearby 100 metres and 200 metres and we just got"},{"t":3537,"text":"an email from a business asking for a thousand metres."},{"t":3541,"text":"But do we have that map. I believe it was"},{"t":3544,"text":"produced a while ago. There we are. So there are"},{"t":3551,"text":"none within the area 200 metres. Yeah. Through the merrier"},{"t":3554,"text":"there is there's none within 200 metres. Okay. And how"},{"t":3557,"text":"busy is the businesses there? Cause we just got a"},{"t":3560,"text":"business that just wrote to us, uh, saying that she"},{"t":3563,"text":"doesn't want it there. Okay. There's the locations. And where"},{"t":3567,"text":"is the. Yes. It did mayor. So those are all"},{"t":3570,"text":"the locations. I think the businesses with a business license"},{"t":3574,"text":"currently in the city, um, I think the closest is"},{"t":3578,"text":"actually around 750 metres when I was doing some quick"},{"t":3580,"text":"math before this meeting today. Okay. So 700, thank you."},{"t":3584,"text":"That was one of my questions. Okay. 750 metres. Now"},{"t":3594,"text":"we've had several emails with objections, uh, from nearby residents"},{"t":3598,"text":"and even businesses. And I said, we just got one"},{"t":3600,"text":"a few minutes ago, uh, but it took a couple"},{"t":3603,"text":"days, I think, to get to us. So looking at"},{"t":3606,"text":"the staff report, recommendations, the state that staffed did not"},{"t":3609,"text":"raise significant centres above community impact. So did staff receive"},{"t":3613,"text":"all those emails that we've gotten over the last several"},{"t":3615,"text":"days. Mr. Nichols. To the mayor, yes. Um, we do"},{"t":3620,"text":"get the emails. Um, if you got one quite recently,"},{"t":3624,"text":"may have not seen that one, but we do as"},{"t":3626,"text":"part of our analysis. We do reach out to Byla"},{"t":3629,"text":"Services. We reach out to Vic PD. They indicated no"},{"t":3633,"text":"concerns with this proposal. And, uh, we also connected the"},{"t":3638,"text":"applicant with, uh, Vic PD has a community safety assessments."},{"t":3643,"text":"And they have a program with that. And, uh, the"},{"t":3645,"text":"applicant has already, uh, reached out and started working with"},{"t":3649,"text":"the VIPD to do, uh, an assessment of their property"},{"t":3651,"text":"around any safety concerns. I was thinking of the concerns"},{"t":3655,"text":"of the residents and businesses nearby, not the. Other groups."},{"t":3661,"text":"So what, and, and I'm sorry, I was away, didn't"},{"t":3665,"text":"get to read everything. Uh, and what neighbourhood is this."},{"t":3669,"text":"To the mayor, it is the fair field Gonzalez kind"},{"t":3673,"text":"of, uh, neighbourhood. It's right on the border between, uh,"},{"t":3677,"text":"between that, uh, kind of the hair screen downtown area."},{"t":3681,"text":"So the fair field gonzale's comment on it. The neighbourhood"},{"t":3683,"text":"association? Uh, it's through the mayor. No, we did not"},{"t":3685,"text":"receive a response from them. Okay. And was there any"},{"t":3688,"text":"other outreach or do we have anything from the neighbours"},{"t":3690,"text":"outside of the emails we've received and the ones that"},{"t":3692,"text":"were attached, which were all really through the mayor, everything,"},{"t":3696,"text":"uh, has been provided council and attached on the agenda."},{"t":3700,"text":"Okay. And, uh. Okay. Sorry. Um, the report references a"},{"t":3709,"text":"nearby, not for profit society. And I didn't get a"},{"t":3712,"text":"chance to go see what kind of society that was."},{"t":3714,"text":"Do we know what kind of not for prophet society"},{"t":3717,"text":"is there. I don't need you to name it just"},{"t":3719,"text":"since report references it. I'm going to know what kind"},{"t":3722,"text":"of not - for - profit. Mr. Nichols, do you"},{"t":3725,"text":"know that? Through the mayor, I think that came"},{"t":3735,"text":"in through the Citizen Correspondence. I'm actually not sure what"},{"t":3738,"text":"it is off the top of my head. So we"},{"t":3740,"text":"don't know. Okay. Cause we've had businesses. Um, and how"},{"t":3743,"text":"close is the site to the mere street youth facility?"},{"t":3747,"text":"Because that was mentioned to. Mary. I'd have to quickly"},{"t":3753,"text":"do some Googling on that in terms of distance. So"},{"t":3761,"text":"you can throw a pebble. And you will hit that"},{"t":3762,"text":"building. Thank you. Council. Please do not discuss side to"},{"t":3769,"text":"side. Uh, through the mayor, will we get that information?"},{"t":3771,"text":"Is there any other questions we can address? Yeah. Uh,"},{"t":3774,"text":"there's an email from a healthcare professional. I don't know"},{"t":3776,"text":"what kind of health care. And I again didn't have"},{"t":3779,"text":"time to look it up the last few days. And"},{"t":3782,"text":"he, I think it was a he, Count recall right"},{"t":3784,"text":"now serves a diverse patient population nearby. So do we,"},{"t":3788,"text":"you know, nature, do we know the nature of that"},{"t":3790,"text":"facility and the concern raised in his correspondence was that"},{"t":3795,"text":"are nearby children, individuals with medical conditions, which he feels"},{"t":3798,"text":"should not be in close proximity to a cannabis retail"},{"t":3802,"text":"store. Through the mayor, uh, there is a office building,"},{"t":3807,"text":"uh, just up the street that has, you know, various"},{"t":3810,"text":"medical services. I believe this, uh, individual runs dental practice."},{"t":3815,"text":"Okay. How close is up the street. To the mayor,"},{"t":3821,"text":"I would have to get that information. I don't have"},{"t":3823,"text":"that at the top of my head either. Count your"},{"t":3829,"text":"girl, do you have other questions while he's looking at"},{"t":3831,"text":"for those answers."},{"t":3852,"text":"Mayor, come here. And perhaps everyone's searching. What I'm concerned"},{"t":3855,"text":"about the not - for - profit is that one"},{"t":3857,"text":"that serves families or is it one that serves addictions?"},{"t":3860,"text":"I mean, that makes a big difference. If you can"},{"t":3862,"text":"hold those comments until the... Well, it's not a commas"},{"t":3864,"text":"question. That's what he's looking at."},{"t":3903,"text":"Mr. Nickles, any thoughts?"},{"t":3923,"text":"To the mayor. So the medical facility is 140 metres"},{"t":3926,"text":"away. And I've been informed that the mere street location"},{"t":3931,"text":"is next door. Oh. Okay. So the one was, sorry,"},{"t":3938,"text":"how many metres? 100? 140. 40, thank you. Okay, and"},{"t":3944,"text":"the not - for - profit society. Mr. Nichols, do"},{"t":3951,"text":"you know the nature of the non - profit."},{"t":3965,"text":"So it is the mere street youth facility is located"},{"t":3971,"text":"directly behind the building. So is that what the report"},{"t":3976,"text":"referred to when it said a not - for -"},{"t":3977,"text":"profit, or was it something else? Mr. Nichols, I believe"},{"t":3984,"text":"you indicated that it wasn't the staff report that referenced"},{"t":3987,"text":"that, but rather one of the writers? No. There's staff"},{"t":3991,"text":"report mentioned it. I've been for you to identify in"},{"t":3993,"text":"the report where it's referenced. Somewhere. Well, maybe the correspondence"},{"t":3999,"text":"with the staff report, but it was in the package"},{"t":4001,"text":"I was given. Yes, through the mayor. It was in"},{"t":4003,"text":"the correspondence attached that we received as part of the"},{"t":4007,"text":"CAF report. Councillor Gardner? I'm still waiting to see if"},{"t":4012,"text":"that was the mayor's facility or some other, not -"},{"t":4014,"text":"for - profit. I don't believe Mr. Nichols has indicated"},{"t":4017,"text":"that he does not know that, that it was indicated"},{"t":4019,"text":"by the writer. No. Through the MERA, if I was"},{"t":4021,"text":"to presume it would be the mere street location. Okay,"},{"t":4024,"text":"thank you. That's my questions. Okay, very good. Councillor Caridona?"},{"t":4029,"text":"Questions? I was gonna move the staff recommendation. I believe"},{"t":4032,"text":"Councillor Hem, would you have questions or just... Yeah, go"},{"t":4034,"text":"ahead, Councillor Hammond. I'll come back to you, Councillor Cody."},{"t":4038,"text":"Sure. I used to live around there. And so it"},{"t":4042,"text":"is, I call it mirrors, M - I - R"},{"t":4046,"text":"- R - O - R - S. And on"},{"t":4049,"text":"the website, it says City Victoria. This project is working"},{"t":4054,"text":"closely with BC housing for their ongoing commitment to provide"},{"t":4057,"text":"supportive housing for individuals age 19 to 27 who face"},{"t":4062,"text":"difficulties accessing affordable housing or experiencing homelessness. And just to"},{"t":4066,"text":"be clear, this isn't a stone's throw away. This is"},{"t":4068,"text":"a pebble throw away. Like, it's right there. It's right"},{"t":4070,"text":"behind there. Is there any concern about. Youth in that"},{"t":4075,"text":"area having someplace right next door. Mr. Nicholson. So through"},{"t":4080,"text":"the mirror, I think, um, it's important to talk about"},{"t":4083,"text":"the purpose of this report, which is it is a"},{"t":4086,"text":"referral from the LCRB. It's an LCRB process where someone"},{"t":4091,"text":"is trying to get an LCRB license and the LCRB"},{"t":4095,"text":"asks Council to comment on the applicant. So what we"},{"t":4098,"text":"do sum analysis, um, obviously confirm zoning, you know, reach"},{"t":4103,"text":"out to Bylaw Services, Vic PD, the Krux of our,"},{"t":4108,"text":"um, recommendation is about our view that the applicant meets"},{"t":4114,"text":"the criteria to obtain a LCRB license, um, with that"},{"t":4117,"text":"said, this is Council's prerogative to decide moving forward. I"},{"t":4124,"text":"see City clerk will like say something too. Thank you,"},{"t":4127,"text":"Mayor, if I may. This is, if I may just"},{"t":4130,"text":"add to those comments, this is one of those areas"},{"t":4132,"text":"where some of the questions and the nature of them"},{"t":4137,"text":"are more of what we would anticipate during rezoning process,"},{"t":4142,"text":"where a property wishes to change its owning to permit"},{"t":4144,"text":"a use to be a cannabis retailer. This part of"},{"t":4147,"text":"the process is really where we have that process that"},{"t":4150,"text":"took place in the past. Council proved the use, and"},{"t":4153,"text":"now this is really about the branch, as Mr. Nichols"},{"t":4156,"text":"mentioned, referring the information about the person requesting a license"},{"t":4160,"text":"to sell at that location. So our apologies that we"},{"t":4163,"text":"didn't have quite all the information ready for council, but,"},{"t":4166,"text":"uh, ultimately this really is about whether or not Council"},{"t":4170,"text":"agrees or has any comments for the branch in regards"},{"t":4174,"text":"to the applicant. Council Ramage. Thanks. And then, so just"},{"t":4179,"text":"to be clear, and with that information, thanks very much,"},{"t":4182,"text":"Mr. Kingsley. But, um, does the city's position, or because"},{"t":4188,"text":"you're asking Council, but does the city take the position"},{"t":4192,"text":"that they are not at all concerned with this youth"},{"t":4196,"text":"housing place being right next door to this? Mr. Kingsley."},{"t":4200,"text":"Through you, Mayor. We don't, uh, from a staff perspective,"},{"t":4206,"text":"administratively, we don't really have a basis on which that"},{"t":4208,"text":"we would rely on to give any specific recommendations against"},{"t":4212,"text":"this. And the reason behind that is that it is"},{"t":4216,"text":"rezoned for that purpose. There was a store of operating"},{"t":4220,"text":"their previously, and my understanding is that store has ceased"},{"t":4224,"text":"operating, and they knew applicant has come asking for a"},{"t":4227,"text":"license to continue to operate the same function at that"},{"t":4229,"text":"location. So from a staff perspective, we just don't really"},{"t":4233,"text":"have a basis necessarily. We saw to recommend strongly one"},{"t":4237,"text":"way or the other in terms of we don't think"},{"t":4239,"text":"you should. That's probably the best answer I can give."},{"t":4242,"text":"I mean, I'm not trying to pass comment on whether"},{"t":4245,"text":"those concerns that I'm hearing here are legitimate or not."},{"t":4248,"text":"They're just more concerns that we would anticipate would arise"},{"t":4251,"text":"out of the rezoning phase as opposed to a simple"},{"t":4254,"text":"license. Council Hamon. Thanks to you, Mayor. Um, so when"},{"t":4259,"text":"was that rezoning done? Was that with our council. Or"},{"t":4263,"text":"previous? Mr. Justice and Mr. Nichols? Uh, through the Mary"},{"t":4267,"text":"was a decision of a previous council. It was in"},{"t":4269,"text":"July of 2017. And was that mirrors facility in place"},{"t":4276,"text":"in July of 2017. No, I wouldn't think so. Through"},{"t":4281,"text":"the mayor, no, it wasn't. That was constructed more recently."},{"t":4285,"text":"Good to know, thank you. Thank you. Any other questions."},{"t":4289,"text":"Then I'll go back to Councillor Cardona. You want to"},{"t":4291,"text":"move the motion? So moved. Council Kim is seconding. Councillor"},{"t":4296,"text":"Caradona, your motivation, please. Yeah, thanks. I have supported most"},{"t":4300,"text":"of the cannabis applications this term, although I've opposed a"},{"t":4303,"text":"couple because they didn't meet our rules and regulations. And"},{"t":4306,"text":"our rules are really focused around two things. One, ensuring"},{"t":4309,"text":"that there's not a concentration. Of cannabis facilities and also"},{"t":4312,"text":"being mindful of the fact that this is essentially a"},{"t":4314,"text":"regulated market, and we have to, I think, stick to"},{"t":4316,"text":"our regulations and not. Anyway, I don't want to go"},{"t":4318,"text":"off on that. But that's piece one. Piece two is"},{"t":4320,"text":"to make sure that they're not in close proximity to"},{"t":4322,"text":"schools. So my understanding is that this facility is not"},{"t":4325,"text":"in close proximity to a school, and it's not within"},{"t":4329,"text":"whatever it is, 200 metres of another cannabis distribution facility,"},{"t":4333,"text":"and therefore it does mean our rules and regulations are"},{"t":4335,"text":"rules do not get into whether or not a cannabis"},{"t":4337,"text":"facility is in close proximity to an NGO or a"},{"t":4340,"text":"social service centre or something like that. If that were"},{"t":4343,"text":"the case, that would require, I think, a lot of"},{"t":4345,"text":"additional work and given how small and compact our city"},{"t":4349,"text":"is and how many NGOs are all over the place."},{"t":4351,"text":"It would probably impossible. It'd probably be impossible to have"},{"t":4354,"text":"a canvas facility just about anywhere. In any case, our"},{"t":4357,"text":"bylaws are silent on that. So what matters to me"},{"t":4360,"text":"is that this does meet our bylaw, and it's recommended"},{"t":4363,"text":"by staff, and I think it should move forward. Thanks."},{"t":4366,"text":"Thank you, Councillor Kim, as the secondary. Nothing to add."},{"t":4371,"text":"Councillor Thompson. Thanks, Mayor. Just echo those comments. Um, we"},{"t":4377,"text":"need to focus on the specific decisions that are in"},{"t":4380,"text":"front of us. When we make decisions at City Council,"},{"t":4384,"text":"we have to follow the local government act and the"},{"t":4386,"text":"Community Charter. We don't have CART blanche to go everywhere."},{"t":4391,"text":"Um, so I feel that staff prepared the relevant information."},{"t":4398,"text":"I'd be disappointed if staff had gone off and done"},{"t":4402,"text":"a whole bunch of extra research on issues that are"},{"t":4405,"text":"irrelevant to our decision. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else."},{"t":4408,"text":"Coach Hammond, go ahead. Council Ramon. Whereas I voted in"},{"t":4412,"text":"favor of an awful lot of these before. I will"},{"t":4414,"text":"be voting against this one. And I don't think it's"},{"t":4416,"text":"at all irrelevant that within a pebbles throw of that"},{"t":4421,"text":"application that we have got, um, a youth facility with"},{"t":4426,"text":"50 rooms, um, and apartments in there that has been"},{"t":4431,"text":"built and placed in that, since that time. There's got"},{"t":4434,"text":"to be some limits when we're concerned about the impact"},{"t":4437,"text":"on youth and youth at risk. Thank you Council Gardner."},{"t":4447,"text":"Sorry. Thank you. Thank you, staff, for the report. And"},{"t":4451,"text":"I understand the limitations of the report. Um. But residents"},{"t":4455,"text":"and at least two businesses have now spoken about their"},{"t":4457,"text":"fears of cannabis retail so close to families and businesses"},{"t":4461,"text":"frequented by families. My personal concern is families and children."},{"t":4466,"text":"A medical building nearby inviting families. And the youth facility"},{"t":4471,"text":"next door. Things have changed since 2017. In a major"},{"t":4476,"text":"way. Drug use and enticing youth into any drug scene"},{"t":4483,"text":"is of concern now, even if it wasn't of high"},{"t":4486,"text":"concern in 2017. We need to focus on the wellbeing"},{"t":4490,"text":"of our residence and the health of our children. The"},{"t":4494,"text":"safety and well - being of our residents is paramount"},{"t":4497,"text":"to me. I cannot support this application. Thank you very"},{"t":4501,"text":"much, anybody else. Not seeing any other comments. The motion"},{"t":4508,"text":"is on the floor moved and seconded. All those in"},{"t":4510,"text":"favor. That's Rydell, Councillor Kim. Councillor Loton. Councillor Gardona, myself,"},{"t":4514,"text":"Councillor Coleman and Councillor Thompson in opposition. Councillor Hamilton and"},{"t":4518,"text":"Councillor Gardner. So noting two and opposition. That is adopted."},{"t":4523,"text":"Uh, we do have another item related to staff report"},{"t":4526,"text":"that I suspect will take some time. So I'm going"},{"t":4528,"text":"to suggest we take a break right now. We have"},{"t":4530,"text":"been sitting for a significant amount of time. So it's"},{"t":4532,"text":"not 10. 20. Let us try and return at 1030."},{"t":4535,"text":"For item H2. And thank you for rejoining us. We"},{"t":4538,"text":"return to our June 11th Committee of the Whole Meeting"},{"t":4541,"text":"of Victoria City Council prior to our brick. We had"},{"t":4544,"text":"concluded our consideration of item H1, and now we are"},{"t":4548,"text":"on to H2. This is indeed the amenity cost charges"},{"t":4552,"text":"bylaw amendment consideration. I believe we do have our presentation,"},{"t":4556,"text":"I believe, yes. Staff, are you going to do it"},{"t":4559,"text":"from way back there? Are you going to come up"},{"t":4562,"text":"to where we often have our presenters? We are happy"},{"t":4564,"text":"to come up, but we actually do not have a"},{"t":4566,"text":"presentation for this one. You don't have your presentation. Oh,"},{"t":4568,"text":"I see, okay. Is there anything that you would like"},{"t":4570,"text":"to share with Council in advance of our questions to"},{"t":4574,"text":"you? Sure. Thank you, Mayor Alto. My name is Lauren"},{"t":4577,"text":"Close. I'm the Manager of Community Planning. So we don't"},{"t":4579,"text":"have a presentation for this item today. Can you hear"},{"t":4582,"text":"me okay? Great. Yeah, you lean in a little bit"},{"t":4584,"text":"would be helpful, yes. Or pull the book a bit"},{"t":4587,"text":"closer to you, yes. Thank you. So this is a"},{"t":4590,"text":"brief report that seeks Council Direction to take the necessary"},{"t":4593,"text":"steps to advance an amendment to the Cities Amenity cost"},{"t":4596,"text":"charges bylaw. The amendment would add a transition provision to"},{"t":4600,"text":"exempt developments that have an approved rezoning, but have not"},{"t":4603,"text":"yet been fully constructed. This amendment is really in keeping"},{"t":4607,"text":"with the Spirit of the Provincial Legislation and the City's"},{"t":4610,"text":"Own Intent for Incy CC byWAWA. It's required now because,"},{"t":4614,"text":"unlike other transition provisions, this one was not explicitly identified"},{"t":4617,"text":"in the local government act. So it's a fairly straightforward"},{"t":4620,"text":"amendment and process to bring it forward, but we're happy"},{"t":4623,"text":"to answer any questions if Council has any. Very good."},{"t":4630,"text":"We'll start with questions. Are there any questions? Council Securadona."},{"t":4634,"text":"Thank you very much. Red this one carefully. I think"},{"t":4637,"text":"I understand it. So the idea here is to avoid"},{"t":4639,"text":"a situation in which we're potentially double charging. Oh, you"},{"t":4644,"text":"guys are coming up. I gather that the intention here"},{"t":4652,"text":"is to avoid a situation in which we're potentially double"},{"t":4655,"text":"charging a proponent who maybe had negotiated a CAC. And"},{"t":4662,"text":"then they're being double charged. So the idea is to"},{"t":4665,"text":"create an exemption for in - stream projects. Is that"},{"t":4669,"text":"the intention. Close? Let's read the mayor essentially, yes. Yeah,"},{"t":4676,"text":"we don't want to have any late hits to developments"},{"t":4681,"text":"that have negotiated amenities with the city. And this is"},{"t":4683,"text":"just a bit of a cork in the legislation. Okay,"},{"t":4685,"text":"thank you. And then how many total projects are we"},{"t":4688,"text":"talking about here? Disclosed? Approximately. Yes, through YMIR, this wouldn't"},{"t":4695,"text":"be a very common occurrence. This would typically happen with"},{"t":4699,"text":"larger multi - phase projects where rezoning has been approved,"},{"t":4702,"text":"but hasn't yet fully been constructed. So it'd be a"},{"t":4705,"text":"small number of projects since the provision would be general."},{"t":4710,"text":"We wouldn't have an exact number, but I could estimate"},{"t":4712,"text":"certainly well under 10. Under 10. Okay, and just last"},{"t":4718,"text":"question for me, and I'm going to write this down"},{"t":4720,"text":"because I've asked before, and it's still finding confusing. But"},{"t":4725,"text":"when the new ACC legislation came in, what did that"},{"t":4729,"text":"completely obliterate CACs or our CAC still around? And if"},{"t":4734,"text":"so, in what context? Bring this down. Who would like"},{"t":4740,"text":"to explain that. Mr. Johnston, our nome is closed? Go"},{"t":4746,"text":"ahead. Through you may, I might want to turn to"},{"t":4749,"text":"our colleagues in the legal to confirm their interpretation of"},{"t":4753,"text":"this, but the intent and my understanding of the legislation"},{"t":4756,"text":"is that it's intended to give the development community more"},{"t":4760,"text":"clarity about the amenities that would be expected, that were"},{"t":4764,"text":"previously negotiated through a community amenity process. So I don't"},{"t":4772,"text":"know if I would use the word obliterate, but certainly"},{"t":4775,"text":"the spirit of the legislation is to add that additional"},{"t":4777,"text":"clarity up front. If there were to be through the"},{"t":4781,"text":"mayor a stratified project in which additional density were given,"},{"t":4785,"text":"or something like that, is that still a scenario in"},{"t":4789,"text":"which a CAC would be applicable above and beyond an"},{"t":4792,"text":"ACC. I'm trying to understand when CACs are still germane."},{"t":4801,"text":"Of course, through you mayor, so when we crafted our"},{"t":4806,"text":"ACC bylaw, we were judicious."},{"t":4817,"text":"We took the more typical form of development that we"},{"t":4819,"text":"see across the City to apply a fairly fair rate"},{"t":4824,"text":"based on development viability. Um, uh, so it is charged"},{"t":4830,"text":"out of her door unit or a per square foot"},{"t":4832,"text":"basis. Um, there could be a situation where the landlift,"},{"t":4837,"text":"um, that we see in a development, um, is greater"},{"t":4840,"text":"than what we might've collected through a previous CAC process"},{"t":4843,"text":"than what we collect through the ACC process. And so"},{"t":4846,"text":"we do have policy in our rezoning and development policy"},{"t":4849,"text":"that guides, um, the City could request a landlift analysis"},{"t":4853,"text":"and see if there's any additional amenity that we might"},{"t":4856,"text":"try to negotiate with the developer, but those would be"},{"t":4858,"text":"for very, very large scale projects where we would expect"},{"t":4861,"text":"that to happen. I might ask my colleague to chime"},{"t":4864,"text":"in further. Mr. Seward of the Mayor, I think it's"},{"t":4868,"text":"also just worth noting that, you know, CACs were somewhat"},{"t":4871,"text":"grey area prior to this legislation and probably they are"},{"t":4875,"text":"only greyer with the introduction of this new legislation as"},{"t":4878,"text":"the province looks to encourage municipalities to use ACCs as"},{"t":4883,"text":"a tool that provides more certainty and clarity to the"},{"t":4886,"text":"development community for. So it's, it's sort of a new"},{"t":4890,"text":"territory for local governments recognising that these new financial tools"},{"t":4893,"text":"are in place. And so I think we're all sort"},{"t":4895,"text":"of trying to understand how the development finance frameworks will"},{"t":4899,"text":"roll out based on that. But generally speaking, I think"},{"t":4901,"text":"the priority within the new legislation is to really prioritize"},{"t":4905,"text":"the use of ACCs for, uh, for amenities. Um, that"},{"t":4910,"text":"being said, Ms. Pelley's retain some discretionary powers through the"},{"t":4913,"text":"rezoning process. Okay, cause that through the mirror, that's what"},{"t":4916,"text":"I'm trying to get out here. And if folks recall"},{"t":4918,"text":"at last year's UBCM, we had a resolution, which I"},{"t":4922,"text":"want to brought it forward, which was requesting the province"},{"t":4925,"text":"to consider some flexibility so that some of the ACC"},{"t":4928,"text":"monies could potentially go towards affordable housing. And we just"},{"t":4931,"text":"got the response from the province actually, I think it"},{"t":4933,"text":"was a couple of weeks ago. And they essentially said"},{"t":4934,"text":"no. So as far as I understand, and correct me"},{"t":4938,"text":"if I'm wrong, but, uh, from, from, you know, these"},{"t":4943,"text":"exemptions notwithstanding, it's essentially no longer possible to use amenity"},{"t":4947,"text":"contributions towards affordable housing anymore. And by my calculation, in"},{"t":4952,"text":"the last four years, millions of dollars have come in"},{"t":4955,"text":"to our housing reserve fund from CACs. But that well"},{"t":4959,"text":"has, has run dry now because the province wants ACCs"},{"t":4963,"text":"to only go towards Community Amenity spaces and so -"},{"t":4967,"text":"called street parks and plazas. So as far as I"},{"t":4971,"text":"can tell, this legislation has severely impeded our ability to"},{"t":4977,"text":"recapitalize our housing reserve fund and other local governments that"},{"t":4981,"text":"are in the same situation with their own housing related"},{"t":4983,"text":"funds. Am I correct on that or incorrect on that?"},{"t":4987,"text":"Or are there still any ways in which CAC, ACCs,"},{"t":4991,"text":"any of these kind of monies that come through development"},{"t":4993,"text":"can go towards affordable housing? Or is that just done"},{"t":4995,"text":"now? Mr. Sehrin. Through the mayor, I think you're correct"},{"t":5001,"text":"in the sense that, uh, the ACC bylaw and the"},{"t":5005,"text":"legislation that governs it is very explicit about the fact"},{"t":5008,"text":"that housing is not an eligible use for the ACC."},{"t":5013,"text":"However, the local government act, um, was also amended to,"},{"t":5018,"text":"um, with updated, uh, legislation around, uh, tools related density"},{"t":5024,"text":"bonus. And so, uh, it's more the density bonus and"},{"t":5028,"text":"kind of inclusionary housing powers that really are more focused"},{"t":5031,"text":"around being able to secure, uh, cash and lie for"},{"t":5036,"text":"an affordable housing fund. And so our local, our land"},{"t":5040,"text":"use framework does integrate, um, density bonus, uh, especially for,"},{"t":5046,"text":"uh, projects within the context of, um, our general residential"},{"t":5051,"text":"areas. So the priority growth areas, the general urban residential"},{"t":5055,"text":"fabric, um, and so within those areas, we've, you know,"},{"t":5060,"text":"the priority growth area is contemplate density bonus for, um,"},{"t":5064,"text":"for strata and any collections that we would get in"},{"t":5067,"text":"terms of monetary wood flow back to the housing reserve"},{"t":5071,"text":"fund. But yeah, it's, it is a bit of a"},{"t":5074,"text":"change. And I think as, as noted before, uh, all"},{"t":5077,"text":"these, this massive amount of legislative and policy and regulatory"},{"t":5083,"text":"change that has occurred is like the ink is just"},{"t":5087,"text":"dry really. And we're still in the process of sort"},{"t":5089,"text":"of seeing how it rolls out. Yes. And thank you"},{"t":5091,"text":"for that, man. Sorry, Mayor, I'm sorry if I'm being"},{"t":5092,"text":"a bit dense on this, but that, this is exactly"},{"t":5094,"text":"the bit that I have not understood is the difference"},{"t":5097,"text":"between the density bonus and the ACC. So can you"},{"t":5100,"text":"maybe help me understand a theoretical development that would result"},{"t":5106,"text":"in. A cost charge or some kind of fee to"},{"t":5110,"text":"a developer that could end up in the housing reserve"},{"t":5113,"text":"fund? Can you give me, give us an example of"},{"t":5115,"text":"that. Through the mayor. So, uh, hypothetically, if we saw"},{"t":5120,"text":"a strata development come forward, uh, on a priority growth"},{"t":5124,"text":"area and they looked to build to the, um, the"},{"t":5127,"text":"upper level density of 2. 6 FSR, they would, um,"},{"t":5135,"text":"required to provide a density bonus contribution above the base"},{"t":5140,"text":"density of 1. 6. So there could be a monetary"},{"t":5144,"text":"contribution on a per square metre basis between the 1."},{"t":5149,"text":"6 floor area and the 2. 6 max density. And"},{"t":5155,"text":"so, you know, currently we're, we're seeing maybe less in"},{"t":5158,"text":"the wave of strata, but that, that could shift over"},{"t":5161,"text":"time. And as the market shift changes, um, and, um,"},{"t":5166,"text":"you know, in the same way that we saw under"},{"t":5169,"text":"the old inclusionary housing community policy where we saw, you"},{"t":5173,"text":"know, mid, mid - rise projects make, you know, cash"},{"t":5176,"text":"contributions of 100 to 200, 000 or something like that,"},{"t":5180,"text":"you know, it would be probably in that same ballpark"},{"t":5183,"text":"for a cash contribution for a sort of a project"},{"t":5187,"text":"on a prior growth area where they're doing a five"},{"t":5189,"text":"or six story strata project. Okay. Okay. But yeah, it's,"},{"t":5193,"text":"it's, as I said, this is all still very much"},{"t":5195,"text":"just kind of rolling out. Yeah. And so it's going"},{"t":5197,"text":"to take some time to see how. And so through"},{"t":5199,"text":"the mayor in that example, are they also paying an"},{"t":5201,"text":"ACC. Through the Mary SACs are still applicable to all,"},{"t":5207,"text":"um, all forms of development that are adding an additional,"},{"t":5211,"text":"um, self contained dwelling unit or projects so that you're"},{"t":5214,"text":"adding additional floor area in terms of complete. That's helpful."},{"t":5216,"text":"So any bonus density on a stratified project that would"},{"t":5219,"text":"result in payment that would go to the housing reserve"},{"t":5222,"text":"fund would be above and beyond a baseline ACC charge."},{"t":5228,"text":"And just to clarify, our ACC is also being charged"},{"t":5230,"text":"to large scale market housing market rental projects. So are"},{"t":5234,"text":"we only talking about shadow here? She's our ACCs are,"},{"t":5240,"text":"um, subject to all forms of housing and development except"},{"t":5244,"text":"non - market affordable housing. So we have both rental"},{"t":5247,"text":"and strata are subject to ACCs. Okay. Bring us back"},{"t":5251,"text":"to the topic at hand. And thank you for answering"},{"t":5253,"text":"all that because it's, it's complicated for me to understand"},{"t":5256,"text":"it. I do support these exemptions. We don't want to"},{"t":5259,"text":"be double charging and adding more costs to already marginal"},{"t":5263,"text":"housing development. The motion's not yet. Oh, sorry. Should I"},{"t":5266,"text":"move it? Uh, Councillor Thompson, did you have a question?"},{"t":5269,"text":"I'll ask you another. Okay. So yes. Sorry. Sorry. I'll"},{"t":5272,"text":"just move it. But I do support this exemption. I"},{"t":5276,"text":"think it's, it's as staff said it applies to 10"},{"t":5280,"text":"or fewer projects. This is as unusual circumstance because we're"},{"t":5285,"text":"copied between two regulatory regimes. We don't want to be"},{"t":5287,"text":"double charging. I get that. I continue to have problems"},{"t":5291,"text":"with how the ACC legislation has rolled out, but I'll"},{"t":5294,"text":"leave that for another day. And I am disappointed though"},{"t":5296,"text":"that the province didn't know to our request for some"},{"t":5299,"text":"more reflexibility about that. Because I do think that this"},{"t":5302,"text":"will impede our ability to be supporting affordable housing moving"},{"t":5306,"text":"forward, which I find problematic. Thanks, Mayor. Councillor Thompson is"},{"t":5310,"text":"a secondary. Thanks, Mayor. Yeah. I just wanted to thank"},{"t":5314,"text":"you for the report. It covers the actual decision that's"},{"t":5317,"text":"in front of us. And it's very clear and it's"},{"t":5319,"text":"very short. And I really appreciate that. Um, just for"},{"t":5322,"text":"members of the public, there's lots of information about ACCs"},{"t":5325,"text":"and CICs on the provincial government website. If you want"},{"t":5327,"text":"to read that, uh, but in terms of the decision"},{"t":5330,"text":"that's in front of us, uh, I think that the"},{"t":5332,"text":"staff, um, report covers the bases. And I'm all support"},{"t":5337,"text":"the staff recommendation. Thanks. Thank you very much. Anyone else"},{"t":5340,"text":"comments. Council Gardner. I appreciate my questions were asked. And"},{"t":5345,"text":"I think that it's, uh, really incumbent upon us to"},{"t":5348,"text":"make sure that we don't catch or double charge or"},{"t":5351,"text":"really get, uh, some of the developments and problems that"},{"t":5354,"text":"way. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else. Not seeing any"},{"t":5359,"text":"other comments. It's been moved in seconded. All those in"},{"t":5362,"text":"favor. Does anyone opposed? That is unanimous. Thank you very"},{"t":5366,"text":"much for that. That does take us on to new"},{"t":5370,"text":"business. There are three Council, actually four Council Member Motion,"},{"t":5374,"text":"some of which are on the consent agenda. But to"},{"t":5376,"text":"start, uh, the first one is item I1. This is"},{"t":5379,"text":"a Council member motion with regard to a Community Garden"},{"t":5383,"text":"Pilot Project on the underutilized Johnson Street Parquet rooftop. This"},{"t":5388,"text":"had multiple movers who would like to start. Monster Thompson"},{"t":5391,"text":"to start. And it's your secondary Councillor Cardona Council Thompson."},{"t":5394,"text":"Over to you. Thank you, Mayor. Yes. Um. Just need"},{"t":5404,"text":"to find some wording here. Okay. This comes, uh, from"},{"t":5411,"text":"a request from the downtown residence association, the downtown residents"},{"t":5416,"text":"association has been interested in finding additional community garden space"},{"t":5421,"text":"for a number of years now. Uh, Council members will"},{"t":5426,"text":"know that there is a community garden on Yaet Street."},{"t":5433,"text":"And I believe that that, uh, garden has 160 people"},{"t":5439,"text":"on its wait list. Uh, demand for downtown gardening exceeding"},{"t":5445,"text":"current supply dramatically. Council's Park's sequencing"},{"t":5454,"text":"plan. Specifically, identified a new community garden in the downtown"},{"t":5459,"text":"core as a short - term priority. The Strategic plan"},{"t":5463,"text":"that we adopted commits to expanding support for urban agriculture"},{"t":5468,"text":"gardening and food security. There's an interesting opportunity. At the"},{"t":5474,"text":"top of the Johnson Street parcade because there are at"},{"t":5479,"text":"any given time dozens. And I mean during business hours"},{"t":5483,"text":"dozens of empty spaces, uh, at 10, 19 a. m."},{"t":5489,"text":"this morning during our break. There were 117 vacant spaces"},{"t":5494,"text":"in that parquet. And I've been checking the parquet spaces"},{"t":5499,"text":"on a fairly random basis various days and hours of"},{"t":5502,"text":"the week for a couple of years now, uh, and"},{"t":5507,"text":"basically at any given time, empty parcade spaces across the"},{"t":5513,"text":"five parcades that the city owns and operates. Uh, in"},{"t":5517,"text":"addition, of course, there are a number of private parcades,"},{"t":5520,"text":"uh, surface parking lots and street parking. The downtown Victoria"},{"t":5526,"text":"Business Association has a few web pages outlining the availability"},{"t":5532,"text":"of parqued spaces and downtown parking spaces. And has been"},{"t":5538,"text":"trying to encourage people to, uh, use the parkades, uh,"},{"t":5542,"text":"for a number of years. And I guess that that"},{"t":5544,"text":"hasn't actually worked because I was up there a couple"},{"t":5548,"text":"of days ago, uh, and again, they were very few"},{"t":5552,"text":"cars. So given the surplus of demand for"},{"t":5562,"text":"garden space and the surplus of available parking space, I"},{"t":5568,"text":"think it makes sense to, uh, reallocate some of that"},{"t":5572,"text":"publicly owned space to an actual use. As opposed to"},{"t":5578,"text":"a potential, maybe future use of parking. And having a"},{"t":5584,"text":"pilot project like this, uh, can explore the viability of"},{"t":5590,"text":"that use. This is a motion asking staff to report"},{"t":5597,"text":"back to us. Uh, to examine the information that the"},{"t":5604,"text":"downtown residents association provided. With respect to whether the parquet"},{"t":5610,"text":"can handle some planters. Whether the impact on revenues at"},{"t":5616,"text":"all. Uh, and any other assessments that are needed. And,"},{"t":5623,"text":"uh, you know, having, having a pilot project could also,"},{"t":5627,"text":"uh, bring us some interesting findings about whether rooftop gardens"},{"t":5633,"text":"are useful in other spaces around the downtown. So, um,"},{"t":5637,"text":"I hope that council will see fit to support this,"},{"t":5642,"text":"uh, and that, uh, staff can be empowered to work"},{"t":5646,"text":"with the downtown residents association together, uh, to try to"},{"t":5650,"text":"figure this out, uh, and report back to us. Thanks,"},{"t":5654,"text":"Mayor. Thank you. Councillor Caradona is the secondary. Thanks very"},{"t":5657,"text":"much, Mayor. I'll just give a little bit of, of"},{"t":5659,"text":"additional context on this one. So this has been request"},{"t":5663,"text":"of the DRA for, for a number of years. And"},{"t":5665,"text":"I'm sorry that it took a while to get here."},{"t":5668,"text":"But one of the things that they did in the"},{"t":5669,"text":"interim was they worked with, uh, student group, uh, group,"},{"t":5673,"text":"actually a group of students, I think that came from"},{"t":5675,"text":"Massachusetts and who were here for, for a term. And"},{"t":5679,"text":"they did a study on this exact question. And a"},{"t":5683,"text":"lot of this motion is based upon the findings of"},{"t":5685,"text":"that study, which essentially found that the parcades have the"},{"t":5689,"text":"structural capacity to handle a handful of container garden containers"},{"t":5695,"text":"that would include certain special type of lightweight soil. And"},{"t":5699,"text":"they also did some really interesting analysis on at the"},{"t":5703,"text":"demand for the parking on the roof of the Johnson"},{"t":5706,"text":"Street Parquet and found that apparently it's not in use."},{"t":5712,"text":"So the idea here is to direct staff to ground"},{"t":5714,"text":"truth those findings. Uh, it's great that the undergraduates did"},{"t":5718,"text":"that work, but we can actually trust their findings. We"},{"t":5720,"text":"have to take a look at it for ourselves. The"},{"t":5723,"text":"other context here is that there has been attempts in"},{"t":5725,"text":"the past for years to try to find a downtown"},{"t":5728,"text":"community garden space. And there's just not an obvious place"},{"t":5731,"text":"to put it. There's not a lot of surplus land"},{"t":5735,"text":"at grade. That would be suitable for one. We have"},{"t":5739,"text":"one over on Yage Street and that one has a"},{"t":5740,"text":"lot of demand. But in terms of closer to the"},{"t":5743,"text":"core of downtown, the obvious place to put it that"},{"t":5747,"text":"the city could in theory purchase land, but obviously that"},{"t":5749,"text":"comes at a big capital cost. So the DRA is"},{"t":5752,"text":"really honed in on parcades as an option. There could"},{"t":5757,"text":"be a small trade - off here in terms of"},{"t":5759,"text":"the parking availability. It's my understanding that these stalls are"},{"t":5762,"text":"in use on really high demand days, like Symphony Splash"},{"t":5765,"text":"or Canada Day. So I do think that it's a"},{"t":5768,"text":"reasonable to think that there could be a bit of,"},{"t":5771,"text":"uh, a trade - off in terms of other costs."},{"t":5773,"text":"I don't really foresee there being a lot of costs"},{"t":5776,"text":"to the city. The idea here is that if a"},{"t":5778,"text":"pilot were to get off the ground, the cost would"},{"t":5779,"text":"fall to the DRA. It would be their job to"},{"t":5782,"text":"fundraise and build the plots. And if there's going to"},{"t":5785,"text":"be some fencing insecurity, that's on them. There is water"},{"t":5788,"text":"up on the sixth floor, interestingly, of the Johnson Street"},{"t":5790,"text":"Park Aid. We might have to work out with them"},{"t":5792,"text":"what the water rates are, something like that. But I"},{"t":5794,"text":"have had a couple of people ask me what this"},{"t":5796,"text":"would cause the city to my knowledge. It shouldn't really"},{"t":5798,"text":"cost as much of anything. But that could be ground"},{"t":5801,"text":"truth in the report back. But fundamentally, this is about"},{"t":5805,"text":"supporting downtown residents. You have people living in smaller and"},{"t":5808,"text":"smaller apartments and condos. There's a lot of demand for"},{"t":5811,"text":"people to grow a bit of their own food to"},{"t":5814,"text":"get outside, to meet their neighbours, to form some community."},{"t":5817,"text":"And the massive demand for these allotment gardens. My friend"},{"t":5821,"text":"lucked out and got an allotment plot at the compost"},{"t":5824,"text":"education centre in Fernwood a couple of years ago. And"},{"t":5826,"text":"she was on the wait list for eight years. There's"},{"t":5828,"text":"that much demand for it. And we've been told by"},{"t":5830,"text":"the DRA that they have 160 person wait list. So"},{"t":5833,"text":"the demand and we want to be supporting the vibrancy"},{"t":5836,"text":"and livability of resonance who live downtown who don't always"},{"t":5839,"text":"get the kind of investments in green space and food"},{"t":5842,"text":"systems that we see in some of the other parts"},{"t":5844,"text":"of the city. The last thing I'll mention maybe on"},{"t":5847,"text":"a little bit of a lighter note is that I"},{"t":5849,"text":"was on Seafax yesterday talking about Riftlandia, the cancellation for"},{"t":5854,"text":"Flandia and talking about this potential rooftop Community Garden and"},{"t":5857,"text":"someone phoned in and said, in light of Riftlandia closing,"},{"t":5860,"text":"can we refer to this as rooflandia, which I thought"},{"t":5863,"text":"was very, very cute. So here's my support for rooflandium"},{"t":5867,"text":"moving forward. Thanks Mayor. Thank you. Councillor Gardner. Thank you,"},{"t":5873,"text":"Mayor. And thank you councillors Thompson Carrot on a for"},{"t":5876,"text":"this motion. In the couple days we've received several communications"},{"t":5881,"text":"from residents and I have some questions regarding information under"},{"t":5884,"text":"the background. And because I was not, didn't have access"},{"t":5889,"text":"to a lot of computer time the last few days."},{"t":5892,"text":"Uh, some of the information may be there, but I"},{"t":5894,"text":"didn't get a chance to really look at it. So"},{"t":5897,"text":"question, first question. The DRA says the average or the"},{"t":5900,"text":"report says the average occupancy exceeded 250 vehicles, only three"},{"t":5903,"text":"times on weekdays. When and for what period was the"},{"t":5906,"text":"assessment made and it was made over a week or"},{"t":5908,"text":"a month. And do we have, uh, the dates in"},{"t":5911,"text":"hand. Is this a question for engineering for parks? Who"},{"t":5918,"text":"would like to feel this? Mr. Doyle? Through the mayor,"},{"t":5920,"text":"I've read the student. I've read the student study and"},{"t":5924,"text":"they referenced occupancy levels, but did not specify what time"},{"t":5927,"text":"of day or which days of week these were for."},{"t":5929,"text":"They were just sort of average occupancy levels. So we"},{"t":5932,"text":"don't even know the season. It wasn't that detailed of"},{"t":5935,"text":"an analysis. Okay. Uh, yeah. Okay. In the past the"},{"t":5942,"text":"rooftop area has been used for early morning dog walking"},{"t":5945,"text":"because there was a shortage of dog parks. Does anyone"},{"t":5948,"text":"know if that is still be a use is still"},{"t":5950,"text":"in play? Mr. Doyle, do you know if that's given"},{"t":5955,"text":"that dogs sometimes don't mix with gardens. Mr. Newman, you"},{"t":5958,"text":"seem to be leaning into your mic. Thank you. And"},{"t":5961,"text":"through you mayor to the best of my knowledge, we"},{"t":5964,"text":"haven't monitored dog walking on the tops of our parcades"},{"t":5968,"text":"in recently, but, uh, certainly we could explore that through"},{"t":5971,"text":"further analysis should Council pass the recommendation tip before you"},{"t":5974,"text":"today. Thank you. Thank you. I just don't want to"},{"t":5976,"text":"create another problem. Um, now where other locations considered by"},{"t":5981,"text":"the DRA and that's because emails we receive in the"},{"t":5984,"text":"last couple of days. For example, suggest the area joining"},{"t":5988,"text":"the former Romeo site, which is now public property or"},{"t":5990,"text":"city public property. And has that area been considered. I"},{"t":5995,"text":"don't know if that's a staff or going to Mr."},{"t":5998,"text":"Newman first and then we'll go to the mover. Go"},{"t":5999,"text":"ahead, Mr. Newman. Yes. Thank you and through you, Mayor."},{"t":6002,"text":"Uh, the city has been working with the DRA for"},{"t":6006,"text":"a number of years to explore a variety of options."},{"t":6010,"text":"To the best of my knowledge, the Romeo site has"},{"t":6012,"text":"not been explored. Um, the city has been exploring leasing"},{"t":6017,"text":"options for that property. Um, but, uh, depending on the"},{"t":6022,"text":"outcome of today's discussion that could be an ongoing potential"},{"t":6026,"text":"for us to explore. Yeah. Thank you. I'm not thinking"},{"t":6028,"text":"of the building itself, of course, but the adjoining property."},{"t":6032,"text":"So I would hope that the, uh, do we have"},{"t":6035,"text":"any ideas to, well, you're not into the strategic property"},{"t":6039,"text":"management. And I realised that. Does anyone have any idea"},{"t":6042,"text":"if we're close to a lease on that? Yes, just"},{"t":6045,"text":"a second. Mr. House has put his hand up and"},{"t":6047,"text":"he's joining us online. Mr. House, go ahead. Hi, thank"},{"t":6051,"text":"you. Through you mayor at the moment, the rear of"},{"t":6054,"text":"that building is licensed out to multiple users, including the"},{"t":6059,"text":"LESI of the Romeo space that we continue to work"},{"t":6062,"text":"with. So at the moment, uh, the rear parking is"},{"t":6065,"text":"not available. Thank you. And how long is the lessee"},{"t":6068,"text":"of the current Romeo's thing? What is the deadline on"},{"t":6071,"text":"that. Mr. House, is that public information? Sorry. When you"},{"t":6076,"text":"say the deadline, the deadline on what you see for"},{"t":6080,"text":"Romeo's already. Correct. And that lease is for a period"},{"t":6086,"text":"of five years. Okay. Thank you. Okay. The top of"},{"t":6091,"text":"parkage has been explored before because it's an interesting concept."},{"t":6094,"text":"It was explored when Capitol Park. Was, uh, underway and"},{"t":6101,"text":"Councillor Coleman did walked onto the top of a lot"},{"t":6104,"text":"of parquets. So we understand that. Um, okay. Hang on."},{"t":6110,"text":"Now on the past couple of days we've received several"},{"t":6113,"text":"emails from businesses and residents suggesting that the Council Motion"},{"t":6117,"text":"is akin to continue in reduction of vehicles. So I"},{"t":6119,"text":"think we have to be very cautious of that. Um,"},{"t":6122,"text":"and we've heard from many residents and the DVBA about"},{"t":6125,"text":"parking issues. Now it has been suggested that there will"},{"t":6129,"text":"be the city will be using City data. Will a"},{"t":6131,"text":"city be looking at the full, cause you have dad,"},{"t":6136,"text":"I assume on the use of the parking area and"},{"t":6138,"text":"how many vacancies there are so that we can do"},{"t":6140,"text":"a full statistical result. Or assessment. Mr. Doyle, is that"},{"t":6144,"text":"your department? Uh, through the very, we do have that"},{"t":6146,"text":"data. Pardon? We do have that data available to do"},{"t":6149,"text":"a more detailed review if needed. Okay. And with the"},{"t":6152,"text":"motion before us now, will you be doing that? Cidiral."},{"t":6158,"text":"Or do we need to change the wording is what"},{"t":6159,"text":"I'm asking. The wording is fine. Yeah. We would be"},{"t":6162,"text":"doing that. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Now, COSH has"},{"t":6168,"text":"been mentioned. So actually, mayor, I don't know if we"},{"t":6170,"text":"can make an amendment and add a fourth bullet. And"},{"t":6174,"text":"that is the cost estimate to the city, including water"},{"t":6178,"text":"or any assistance for box construction, water lines or fencing."},{"t":6183,"text":"Can you just hold on that? Can you say that"},{"t":6184,"text":"again slowly so that staff can put that up? Yeah."},{"t":6187,"text":"So add a fourth bullet. Yep. Uh, because it says"},{"t":6191,"text":"the top report back to Council with cost estimate to"},{"t":6196,"text":"the city, including water, assistance for box construction, if any."},{"t":6202,"text":"Comma, water lines, comma, fencing."},{"t":6223,"text":"Is that it? Yeah, thank you. And I'd like to"},{"t":6225,"text":"motivate. Is there a seconder for that amendment? Consecure on"},{"t":6229,"text":"a second day. Go ahead, Councillor Corner. Yeah. I've been"},{"t":6230,"text":"involved now with, I think, five different community gardens, either"},{"t":6233,"text":"being having to take them over for, or not take"},{"t":6236,"text":"them over. But as far as responsibility and what have"},{"t":6238,"text":"you because of different issues within gardens. And, uh, I've"},{"t":6242,"text":"never seen one that doesn't involve considerable city finances or"},{"t":6247,"text":"something else. In one way or a toddler. Traditionally, years"},{"t":6251,"text":"ago, the Community Gardens totally took care of themselves. That"},{"t":6255,"text":"changed about 15 years ago. Actually, it changed with capital"},{"t":6258,"text":"park. And where there was a different kind of system"},{"t":6262,"text":"set up. And of course, the city's got many grants."},{"t":6265,"text":"Associated with gardens. And so I think that there could"},{"t":6268,"text":"be a real cost on this and that we should"},{"t":6270,"text":"know it. Thank you. On the amendment Councillor Cardona. Uh,"},{"t":6274,"text":"thanks, Mayor. I'm happy to support it. The only issue"},{"t":6276,"text":"I have with it is that at least for me"},{"t":6278,"text":"as the secondary, I had an envisioned, the city assisting"},{"t":6281,"text":"with box construction or fencing at all. So I don't"},{"t":6284,"text":"want staff to present that that would be the case."},{"t":6287,"text":"But I think it's probably fine to leave it. And"},{"t":6289,"text":"they've listened to the debate. We do have a program"},{"t":6292,"text":"where we support garden coordinators. And maybe I could just"},{"t":6296,"text":"put it through the mayor to staff. Does the DRA"},{"t":6299,"text":"or does downtown currently have a garden coordinating position. Mr."},{"t":6305,"text":"Newman, do we still - As James Bay and Jack"},{"t":6307,"text":"West and others have, sorry, three mere, just for clarity,"},{"t":6312,"text":"are you asking if there's a specific position to support"},{"t":6315,"text":"the DRA or just does the City have a gardener"},{"t":6319,"text":"coordinator position CDY? The first one, A. The CD has,"},{"t":6324,"text":"uh, a number of staff that support our get -"},{"t":6326,"text":"growing programs in our urban food systems, City - wide."},{"t":6331,"text":"And currently, I would say that we have appropriate staffing"},{"t":6335,"text":"for the number of gardens and our, and our grant"},{"t":6339,"text":"programs underway. No, just to clarify, like, you know, James"},{"t":6342,"text":"Bay has a garden coordinator and VicWest has a garden"},{"t":6344,"text":"coordinator. I'm trying to find out if downtown has specifically"},{"t":6347,"text":"right now a card and coordinator. Through their Community Association."},{"t":6351,"text":"Mr. Newman, do you know that? A three - year"},{"t":6356,"text":"mayor, we do have garden coordinator that does work with"},{"t":6359,"text":"the DRA and has been working closely with them for"},{"t":6363,"text":"a number of years. I will just check in with"},{"t":6365,"text":"my team here. To confirm that. Okay, maybe that could"},{"t":6368,"text":"just be in the report about whether or not that"},{"t":6371,"text":"person or that position could be applied here, whether or"},{"t":6374,"text":"not that would be potentially an additional cost as part"},{"t":6376,"text":"of our program. Sorry, maybe just to clarify, this city"},{"t":6381,"text":"does provide volunteer grant grants to support volunteer coordinators. Yes,"},{"t":6387,"text":"that's what I'm referring to. Ah, okay. Thank you. Uh,"},{"t":6389,"text":"and sorry for the confusion. Yes, the City currently does"},{"t":6392,"text":"provide grants to the DRA to support the 8 Street"},{"t":6397,"text":"allotment garden, which has 90 allotment beds in it. Uh,"},{"t":6401,"text":"this year, the City contributed 12, 500 dollars to support"},{"t":6406,"text":"their volunteer coordinator program. Okay, and so I'll just note"},{"t":6409,"text":"in the report if this passes that maybe that could"},{"t":6412,"text":"be in the report about whether or not that current"},{"t":6415,"text":"position would be enough to oversee both of the downtown"},{"t":6419,"text":"gardens or whether or not there would need to be"},{"t":6421,"text":"a second garden coordinator or whatever staff might recommend on"},{"t":6423,"text":"that. But I'll just leave it there. Thanks. Very good."},{"t":6426,"text":"On the amendment, Councillor Thompson, and then we will come"},{"t":6428,"text":"back to Councillor Garden. Thanks, Mayor. The wording of the"},{"t":6432,"text":"amendment is a bit tangled cost estimate to the city."},{"t":6435,"text":"Uh, it also presumes that there will be a cost,"},{"t":6438,"text":"which we've, uh, we've heard that there may be zero"},{"t":6441,"text":"cost. I would like to propose an amendment to the"},{"t":6443,"text":"amendment. Which is? Which is to strike out cost estimates"},{"t":6448,"text":"of the city. And replace it with, well, let's see."},{"t":6455,"text":"Whether there would be any costs to the city. Comma."},{"t":6465,"text":"I can motivate if the second word. Coaster Thompson, I"},{"t":6468,"text":"wonder if it wouldn't be a little simpler for you"},{"t":6471,"text":"to simply add a phrase after cost estimate to the"},{"t":6474,"text":"city, which would be, if any. That would allow the"},{"t":6479,"text":"opening to have to come back and say, well, there"},{"t":6482,"text":"are any. Okay with that. Maybe, maybe we could say"},{"t":6486,"text":"estimate of the costs. To the city, if any. It's"},{"t":6490,"text":"just a little weird cost estimate to the City, if"},{"t":6493,"text":"any. Whatever you like, it's your amendment to the amendment."},{"t":6498,"text":"I'm just going for simple. I'll go with yours. Um,"},{"t":6501,"text":"but I will, uh, tweak the wording. So I guess,"},{"t":6504,"text":"uh, so if you could staff, remove that. And Councillor"},{"t":6507,"text":"Thompson, go ahead. You'd rather it say estimates of cost"},{"t":6510,"text":"to the city. If any, yeah. Estimates of cost to"},{"t":6514,"text":"the city, if any. That'll be new addition. Yeah. Replacing"},{"t":6519,"text":"what's there, yeah."},{"t":6533,"text":"Comma. If any? Can you comment. Ama. Okay. So that's"},{"t":6538,"text":"an amendment to the amendment. Some would like to second"},{"t":6540,"text":"that. Councillor Kim is seconding that, uh, Councillor Thompson on"},{"t":6543,"text":"the amendment to the amendment. Uh, just clear wording and"},{"t":6547,"text":"it takes out the presumption that is not founded. Thanks."},{"t":6551,"text":"Okay. Councillor Kibben is a secondary. No, nothing. Councillor Gardner"},{"t":6554,"text":"on the amendment to the amendment. Thank you. I believe"},{"t":6556,"text":"that the original was very funded. After all, we have"},{"t":6559,"text":"to look at cost. We have to look at opportunity"},{"t":6561,"text":"cost and lost of revenue when there is parking. That"},{"t":6564,"text":"is a cost to the taxpayer when we have less"},{"t":6567,"text":"revenue. And we do not yet have that analysis. But"},{"t":6570,"text":"I have no problem with the amendment per se, but"},{"t":6573,"text":"I have problem with the motivation of saying that it"},{"t":6577,"text":"was, you know, that it wasn't really irrelevant consideration. It"},{"t":6580,"text":"is. Very good. So any other comments on the underlined"},{"t":6585,"text":"wording, which would be replaced the struck through learning Councillor"},{"t":6588,"text":"Carinot. Yeah, I'm happy to support the amendment to the"},{"t":6591,"text":"amendment. I would like to see an estimate of any"},{"t":6594,"text":"potential loss revenue from parking. And I think that that"},{"t":6597,"text":"would probably be included in a report as a matter"},{"t":6600,"text":"of course. And I doubt it would only be fair."},{"t":6603,"text":"I may I ask staff, um, yeah, I'm not sure"},{"t":6606,"text":"if this would be Mr. Doyle or Mr. Newman in,"},{"t":6609,"text":"or whomever would be recreating this report. Would you assume"},{"t":6612,"text":"that the phrase cost to the city would include losses"},{"t":6615,"text":"of revenue in addition to actual outlay of costs. Ms."},{"t":6620,"text":"Thompson. Um, through the mayor. So what we'll do, um,"},{"t":6623,"text":"is we'll provide all of the information that we can,"},{"t":6626,"text":"uh, to help counsel make an informed decision going forward."},{"t":6630,"text":"So I would suggest that anything that staff, um, will"},{"t":6634,"text":"identify. We'll include all of this plus potentially additional items"},{"t":6637,"text":"as well. Very good. Thank you for that. Uh, with"},{"t":6640,"text":"that then, anything else on the amendment to the amendment,"},{"t":6643,"text":"which is the replacement of the struct through language with"},{"t":6645,"text":"the underlined language. But yes, no, all those in favor"},{"t":6650,"text":"of the amendment to the amendment. Anyone opposed? That is"},{"t":6655,"text":"you, anonymous. Councillor Thompson, you still have the floor. On"},{"t":6663,"text":"the amendment, nothing else on the amendment. Very good. Anything"},{"t":6665,"text":"else on the amendment, which is now just the bolded"},{"t":6668,"text":"language. Councillor Gardner, on the bolded language. Thank you. Um."},{"t":6677,"text":"Wait a minute. No, I haven't commented not on the"},{"t":6681,"text":"amendment. I apologise. All right. Very good. On the amendment,"},{"t":6683,"text":"which is just the bolded language any further. Not see"},{"t":6688,"text":"anything further, all those in favor. Anyone opposed. That is"},{"t":6692,"text":"unanimous. So that bolted language becomes part of the main"},{"t":6695,"text":"motion. And that was the first amendment. And actually Councillor"},{"t":6699,"text":"Gardner, you still have the floor. Thank you. Is this"},{"t":6701,"text":"to be a community garden or an allotment garden. That's"},{"t":6706,"text":"a good question. Mr. Newman, do you have fought on"},{"t":6708,"text":"that? Is that part of your report back? The three"},{"t":6711,"text":"of you married the current proposal that we received from"},{"t":6713,"text":"the DRA is for an allotment garden. Okay. Thank you."},{"t":6716,"text":"And a lot of McGowan, which is kind of essentially"},{"t":6719,"text":"privately allotted. Cause that's very important. And in answer to"},{"t":6723,"text":"another comment that was made, for example, James Bay has"},{"t":6726,"text":"the one garden coordinator, but five different gardens, two being"},{"t":6730,"text":"enotmen and three naught. My number may be off because"},{"t":6733,"text":"they keep growing. So that was his one coordinator. And"},{"t":6738,"text":"so I just wanted people to realise that this is"},{"t":6740,"text":"standard, but there's also other grants beyond the coordinator grants"},{"t":6744,"text":"that go to where the gardening. And you might want"},{"t":6746,"text":"to review to see how many there are. Now how"},{"t":6748,"text":"many allotments we're going to be put here. Mr. Newman,"},{"t":6752,"text":"do you know that? Through your mayoral, I'll have to"},{"t":6756,"text":"check my notes if that's okay. And, uh, report back"},{"t":6758,"text":"in a moment. Thank you. Okay. I'm just thinking it"},{"t":6762,"text":"might be quite a small one, but of course they"},{"t":6764,"text":"usually charge a fee for each member. And I think"},{"t":6768,"text":"there might be a bit of a problem. I don't"},{"t":6770,"text":"know. This is just something that parks maybe really fascinating"},{"t":6773,"text":"with was trying to figure out how they're going to"},{"t":6775,"text":"haul up things during the year with all the other"},{"t":6777,"text":"gardening programs or maybe other. Issues. But that's okay. It"},{"t":6781,"text":"can be worked out. So thank you. Thank you very"},{"t":6783,"text":"much. Councillor Loughtin on the main motion. Thanks, Mr. Yumair."},{"t":6788,"text":"I just want to note that the downtown residents association"},{"t":6792,"text":"has been asking for something like this for a very"},{"t":6795,"text":"long time and has, as has already been noted, there's"},{"t":6799,"text":"a approximately 160 person wait list for the part of"},{"t":6804,"text":"me the eight street Community Garden. So there is significant"},{"t":6807,"text":"demand for this. And what this motion is doing is"},{"t":6811,"text":"just requesting a step report back from staff on the"},{"t":6815,"text":"feasibility of this to test if it's a good idea."},{"t":6818,"text":"So in my mind, there's four potential outcomes that could"},{"t":6821,"text":"come from this. Staff may deem it not feasible. Our"},{"t":6826,"text":"staff might deem it feasible. But for some unexpected reason,"},{"t":6830,"text":"the pilot doesn't work. Um, number three. The rooftop Community"},{"t":6838,"text":"Garden idea might not pan out for these reasons. But"},{"t":6841,"text":"and if that happens, I think that Council must keep"},{"t":6844,"text":"looking for a community garden space for downtown residents. And"},{"t":6848,"text":"this, that this work should be done in conjunction with"},{"t":6849,"text":"the DRA. And then number four, if the plan works"},{"t":6853,"text":"and we make good use of these 16 parking spaces"},{"t":6857,"text":"to grow food, promote healthy living and provide a partial"},{"t":6861,"text":"green roof on the Johnson Street parcade. We're in for"},{"t":6864,"text":"a big win for downtown residents. So in my mind,"},{"t":6867,"text":"this really is a no lose situation. And we need"},{"t":6870,"text":"to allow the potential of this project to come to"},{"t":6873,"text":"fruition for downtown residents. And just as an aside, the"},{"t":6877,"text":"idea that this could potentially work in conjunction with the"},{"t":6881,"text":"rooftop daycare on the adjacent building to the east is"},{"t":6884,"text":"also something that, that I'm quite excited about. So, um,"},{"t":6888,"text":"I'm looking forward to, uh, staff reporting back on the"},{"t":6892,"text":"feasibility of this. And I'm, I'm just really happy to"},{"t":6895,"text":"support it. Thank you very much. Anybody else on the"},{"t":6899,"text":"main motion just a second Councillor. We'll come back to"},{"t":6901,"text":"you. But I'm going to go to first time speakers"},{"t":6903,"text":"first Councillor Coleman. Thank you. Um, it's an interesting one"},{"t":6908,"text":"and I feel sorry for the DRA because they've been"},{"t":6910,"text":"asking for this, uh, not specific to parcades, but they've"},{"t":6915,"text":"been asking for a greater gardens, whether they're allotment or"},{"t":6919,"text":"community gardens for years now. We have an example that"},{"t":6924,"text":"does work. I did take the time to read the"},{"t":6926,"text":"WPI report. It's fascinating to me. I thought it was"},{"t":6930,"text":"a, I was delighted to see that one of the"},{"t":6933,"text":"undergrads writing it was by last name of Coleman, not"},{"t":6936,"text":"a relative. Uh, so I'm not in conflict. The assessment,"},{"t":6941,"text":"the scientific assessment of load capacity was interesting, but it"},{"t":6944,"text":"applied only to the gardens and not to full load"},{"t":6948,"text":"of vehicles in the parking structure. So I think what"},{"t":6952,"text":"we're looking at on this is two components that we've"},{"t":6955,"text":"put together. One is the garden pilot project. The other"},{"t":6960,"text":"one is underutilized Johnson Street parquet. And the report actually"},{"t":6965,"text":"looked at both Johnson and view to begin with. It's"},{"t":6968,"text":"interesting that in the pre - sea of the report,"},{"t":6971,"text":"it said the DRA had asked staff and had been"},{"t":6975,"text":"told no. So they then went to this study to"},{"t":6979,"text":"give some validity to it. If the issue is about"},{"t":6983,"text":"underutilized Johnson Street Parquet, then we do have a different"},{"t":6987,"text":"option. It's an economic model. We could make it free"},{"t":6992,"text":"parking for three hours. And that would actually bring more"},{"t":6996,"text":"vehicles into the downtown more, more public to support other"},{"t":7000,"text":"things. That's the way we used to approach parking in"},{"t":7003,"text":"the past. So that's an option. Um, that we could"},{"t":7007,"text":"use. Or we could try this garden pilot project. And"},{"t":7014,"text":"for a short term or a long term give up"},{"t":7016,"text":"any of the parking opportunities. Um, I don't think that"},{"t":7020,"text":"this is the right use of the potential parking space."},{"t":7025,"text":"It's interesting that they also, as I say, looked at"},{"t":7028,"text":"view street parcade and chose not to do it because"},{"t":7030,"text":"it would only be 104 potential lots, not 116. If"},{"t":7035,"text":"it were to go beyond the pilot phase, I, as"},{"t":7041,"text":"I say, I don't support the notion of the parquet"},{"t":7044,"text":"rooftop at this time. But I do think that that"},{"t":7048,"text":"puts a lot of pressure on us to find other"},{"t":7050,"text":"options for garden use in the downtown or adjacent to"},{"t":7056,"text":"the downtown for residents here. So I just think. Really"},{"t":7061,"text":"interesting report. It's 57 pages long. 30 of those pages"},{"t":7065,"text":"are, uh. Ancillary appendices, um, but it's interesting that in"},{"t":7072,"text":"all the assessments they did and they talked to some"},{"t":7075,"text":"of the DRA members, they talked to architects. They talked"},{"t":7079,"text":"to some members of council according to the report. I"},{"t":7081,"text":"was unaware of that. I wasn't one of them. Um,"},{"t":7084,"text":"I thought that the inquiries, they did was not about"},{"t":7089,"text":"the science of Parquet assessment, but it was about the"},{"t":7093,"text":"need and desperate need for more gardening. So I think"},{"t":7096,"text":"there's a lot to learn from this, but I don't"},{"t":7098,"text":"support this. Thank you very much. And now I have"},{"t":7102,"text":"two other speakers who wish to speak for a second"},{"t":7104,"text":"time, but does anyone wish to speak who has not"},{"t":7106,"text":"yet spoken. Not saying that. So I'm going to go"},{"t":7110,"text":"back to both Councillor Thompson and Gardner for a second"},{"t":7112,"text":"time. Councillor Thompson. Uh, thanks Mayor. Yeah. Um, there's a"},{"t":7119,"text":"few outstanding threads that I wanted to, uh, to wrap"},{"t":7122,"text":"up, um, when are the vacancies was asked rhetorically earlier."},{"t":7127,"text":"And I think that's something that can be answered in"},{"t":7129,"text":"the staff analysis. Um, uh, this, my colleague, uh, who"},{"t":7137,"text":"just spoke is correct that this, uh, particular proposal has"},{"t":7140,"text":"not been around for a long time. This is a"},{"t":7143,"text":"new proposal. Uh, but the DRA has been looking into"},{"t":7146,"text":"Community Garden spaces for many years. Uh, and did look"},{"t":7150,"text":"at View Street Parquet. The free parking idea, um, not"},{"t":7157,"text":"sure why that would need to displace this one, as"},{"t":7159,"text":"I mentioned when you look at the five different parcades,"},{"t":7164,"text":"uh, the Several hundred available spots right now during business"},{"t":7168,"text":"hours. Not sure why we would want to pick the"},{"t":7170,"text":"16 spots that could become a community garden and say,"},{"t":7174,"text":"those are going to be the ones where we offer"},{"t":7176,"text":"free parking. I think we could do it at a"},{"t":7179,"text":"different parquet. Or if we needed to do it specifically"},{"t":7182,"text":"at the Johnson Street Parquet, it could be a different"},{"t":7184,"text":"16 stalls, not the 16 because generally there's, um, available."},{"t":7192,"text":"So yeah, why not both? Why not do the Community"},{"t":7195,"text":"Garden and if the desire to do, uh, free parking,"},{"t":7199,"text":"that can be another Council member motion. I think that's"},{"t":7204,"text":"it. I just do want to reiterate, uh, for the"},{"t":7207,"text":"public, um, there is a lot of empty publicly owned"},{"t":7212,"text":"space here. It is not good public policy. To have"},{"t":7219,"text":"publicly own space, not getting any use. Um, this would"},{"t":7223,"text":"actually provide a really great use for that underutilized space."},{"t":7228,"text":"Thanks, Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Gardner for a second time."},{"t":7231,"text":"Thank you. And I'm sorry that my notes are all"},{"t":7233,"text":"over the place. That's what happens when you get in"},{"t":7235,"text":"at one. So, um, and I quite appreciate what Council"},{"t":7240,"text":"Coleman said. Apology for using your name. But anyway, we've"},{"t":7245,"text":"heard from any residence businesses and the DVA that parking"},{"t":7249,"text":"continues to be a major issue. And so a real"},{"t":7252,"text":"question, which has been somewhat raised the same way that"},{"t":7255,"text":"in a different way is if the parquet is not"},{"t":7258,"text":"fully or ultimately used, the question is, why isn't it"},{"t":7261,"text":"being used. And so, um, should we be looking at"},{"t":7264,"text":"the safety? Should we be looking at lighting? Are there"},{"t":7267,"text":"other ways that will not, uh, include revamping the whole"},{"t":7271,"text":"parking lot that can be that the parking area can"},{"t":7276,"text":"be made more, um, useful for people who want to"},{"t":7282,"text":"come downtown. Because that's really important. The DVVA has made"},{"t":7286,"text":"it clear that there's a shortage. But why isn't this"},{"t":7290,"text":"lock in you? So I would hope that if this,"},{"t":7293,"text":"um, examination by staff goes forward that we get a"},{"t":7297,"text":"report back on that. I said, why it isn't being"},{"t":7299,"text":"used? Is it safety? Is it lighting. Personally, I hate"},{"t":7304,"text":"parking par cage like that because I'm a woman. It's"},{"t":7307,"text":"usually driving downtown alone. And, uh, but it's still important"},{"t":7311,"text":"that we try to use it as much as possible."},{"t":7313,"text":"So I am supportive of the motion as is as"},{"t":7317,"text":"it's really a report back from staff, but I hope"},{"t":7321,"text":"the report is very, really, really thorough. Because we do"},{"t":7325,"text":"need more parking in this city. And again, the gardening"},{"t":7331,"text":"pilot is to be only a pilot at this point."},{"t":7334,"text":"So that's why I have no objection to the, uh,"},{"t":7336,"text":"motion going forward as amended. Thank you. Thank you very"},{"t":7339,"text":"much to anybody else. I have a question actually and"},{"t":7343,"text":"it's a staff. The way this is phrased, I'm just"},{"t":7346,"text":"curious, uh, the subject two clause at the end. Indicates"},{"t":7351,"text":"that, uh, should a report or the assessments of the"},{"t":7356,"text":"report be quote successfully completed. Staff would then move forward"},{"t":7360,"text":"with, um, right with the DRA. So my question is"},{"t":7366,"text":"what is successfully completed. And do you anticipate returning to"},{"t":7370,"text":"Council with your report before you begin at conversation with"},{"t":7374,"text":"the DRA? What's the sequence. Through Mayor. So yes, staff"},{"t":7380,"text":"would have to report back to council with whatever the"},{"t":7384,"text":"implications may be. And then ultimately it would be up"},{"t":7387,"text":"to council to direct staff to change the use of,"},{"t":7390,"text":"um, for what we currently have in place. So if"},{"t":7393,"text":"I understand you correctly, this direction should be adopted is"},{"t":7396,"text":"that you go, you do reports and analyses as discussed."},{"t":7399,"text":"And then you come back to counsel with whatever that"},{"t":7401,"text":"is before you take any action with a DRA through"},{"t":7406,"text":"the mayor. Yes. That's correct. Okay. Thank you for that."},{"t":7408,"text":"Uh, that was my only question that had not yet"},{"t":7410,"text":"been asked or answered anything else. Oh, Mr. Newman. I"},{"t":7414,"text":"was going to call you cancer new men. Sorry. Thank"},{"t":7417,"text":"you, Mayor. And through you. So one other item that"},{"t":7420,"text":"I do want to highlight is that our current community"},{"t":7426,"text":"allotment garden intake process. We have a policy and process."},{"t":7431,"text":"Um, proposal from the DRA, which would detail all of"},{"t":7438,"text":"the additional supporting operating and control elements, which are currently"},{"t":7443,"text":"absent in this proposal. Um, such as storage facilities, access"},{"t":7448,"text":"on how materials will be brought in, how the site"},{"t":7452,"text":"will be maintained, et cetera. Um, so we'll take that"},{"t":7457,"text":"away and include consideration for the balance of that process"},{"t":7462,"text":"as part of the report back to Council. Right. Thank"},{"t":7464,"text":"you for that. It's helpful. Anybody else on the amended"},{"t":7469,"text":"main motion. Not seeing anyone else, all those in favor."},{"t":7474,"text":"Councillor Dell. Councillor Kim, culture cardinal, Councillor Loton myself. Councillor"},{"t":7478,"text":"Heming, Councillor Gardner and Councillor Thompson in opposition Councillor Coleman."},{"t":7484,"text":"Noting one in opposition, that amended motion is adopted. Thank"},{"t":7488,"text":"you, Council. That takes us on two item I2, which"},{"t":7491,"text":"was on the consent agenda as a proposal, but was"},{"t":7494,"text":"asked to be removed actually by its mover Councillor Thompson."},{"t":7498,"text":"Councillor Thompson, would you like to move this and then"},{"t":7501,"text":"amend it? Or I'm not sure what your purpose was."},{"t":7503,"text":"Okay. Maybe we could add the wording before I move"},{"t":7506,"text":"it. What would you like to change? Uh, just to"},{"t":7510,"text":"add onto the recommendations, and I've sent this to staff,"},{"t":7513,"text":"um, that the motion be considered today at Council to"},{"t":7518,"text":"meet the UBC. Oh, I see. The same big consideration."},{"t":7521,"text":"And Mayor, I'm, I'm wondering if it was on consent"},{"t":7525,"text":"and I'm the one who removed it. Do we need"},{"t":7527,"text":"to go through an entire discussion? Or do we just,"},{"t":7531,"text":"um, I guess it's not an amendment. The whole motion"},{"t":7536,"text":"has to be on the floor. The motion should be"},{"t":7538,"text":"on the floor and then technically it should be an"},{"t":7540,"text":"amendment. Because the way it submitted is you'll recall when"},{"t":7543,"text":"I discussed earlier the late item that was properly added."},{"t":7547,"text":"One of the provisions of changing it in that manner,"},{"t":7550,"text":"this would technically be a late change if it wasn't"},{"t":7552,"text":"an amendment requires advanced notice. And so since you're actually"},{"t":7556,"text":"changing a substantive aspect of this, you should properly move"},{"t":7559,"text":"the motion, get a seconder and the amendment. Okay. Moved."},{"t":7563,"text":"So his move is your secondary Councillor Kim seconding back"},{"t":7566,"text":"to Councillor Thompson to move his amendment. Do that amendment."},{"t":7569,"text":"There you go. And then is there a seconder for"},{"t":7571,"text":"that amendment? Councillor Kim, yes. Anything you'd like to say"},{"t":7574,"text":"on the amendment? Why is it time sensitive Councillor Thompson?"},{"t":7577,"text":"Time sensitive to meet the UBCM submission deadline. Very good."},{"t":7582,"text":"Councillor Kim, anything to add? Nope. So the amendment is"},{"t":7585,"text":"simply to meet a deadline for the submission to the"},{"t":7588,"text":"Union to BC Municipalities conference this fall. And as was"},{"t":7592,"text":"discussed earlier that deadline is in four days. Anything on"},{"t":7595,"text":"the amendment. Not seeing any of all those in favor."},{"t":7600,"text":"Anyone opposed to the amendment. No one's supposed to remember"},{"t":7603,"text":"that. That's unanimous. On the now amended motion, Councillor Thompson"},{"t":7606,"text":"on the whole thing. Thanks, Mayor. Yes. Um, there was"},{"t":7612,"text":"a thing called the BC Active Transportation infrastructure grants program."},{"t":7617,"text":"I'm hoping it still exists. It has been in place"},{"t":7620,"text":"since 2004. It's been a cost sharing program. For local"},{"t":7626,"text":"governments, First Nations and unincorporated communities. It's been used for"},{"t":7631,"text":"sidewalks, crosswalks, protected bike lanes, traffic common, multi - use"},{"t":7636,"text":"pathways, uh, and safer roots to school. Uh, in the,"},{"t":7642,"text":"uh, motion that's in the, uh, agenda, um, there's a"},{"t":7646,"text":"lot of information about how much, uh, program has delivered."},{"t":7653,"text":"And across the province. In Victoria, we have actually used"},{"t":7657,"text":"this, um, as well with at least a couple of"},{"t":7660,"text":"projects, uh, and the CRD has received a couple of"},{"t":7665,"text":"grants with it. So the program was suspended last year,"},{"t":7671,"text":"late summer, 2025 because of the, uh, provincial clean BC"},{"t":7676,"text":"review. So that was the first time that, uh, there"},{"t":7679,"text":"hadn't been an intake since 2004, is my understanding. Uh,"},{"t":7684,"text":"that review was completed at BC, clean BC review was"},{"t":7689,"text":"completed. And it's been reported out. But the BCAT, the"},{"t":7694,"text":"Active Transportation, uh, grants program hasn't been reinstated and wasn't"},{"t":7699,"text":"included in the budget this year. Uh, that doesn't mean"},{"t":7702,"text":"that it's been terminated. There just hasn't been any announcement."},{"t":7708,"text":"Um. So, uh, the recommendation is to ask you mayor"},{"t":7716,"text":"to write to the province urging it to reinstate the"},{"t":7719,"text":"program and provide stable, multi - year funding. Uh, and"},{"t":7724,"text":"then to ask staff to submit the resolution to the"},{"t":7727,"text":"UBCM basically doing the same thing, providing the three whereasses"},{"t":7733,"text":"and the, uh, resolution. Um, I think that's enough of"},{"t":7738,"text":"a introduction. Happy to have Council discuss it. Thanks, Mayor."},{"t":7743,"text":"Very good. Thank you very much. Councillor Kimmer, the secondary,"},{"t":7745,"text":"anything to add? Nothing to add. Anyone else. Not seeing"},{"t":7750,"text":"anyone else, all those in favor. And you want to"},{"t":7754,"text":"pose. That is unanimous. Thank you for that. That takes"},{"t":7758,"text":"us to the, uh, second to the last item on"},{"t":7761,"text":"our Council Agenda, our Committee gender rather. That's another Council"},{"t":7764,"text":"Member Motion with regard to the use of 28 pasting"},{"t":7768,"text":"square. This was pulled, I believe. Who pulled this off"},{"t":7771,"text":"the agenda. Off the consentigenic Council Cardona Councillor Kim, would"},{"t":7775,"text":"you like to move this, I believe? This was when"},{"t":7777,"text":"you'd like to move. Is your second over this councillor"},{"t":7780,"text":"Coleman? Councillor Kim, anything just discuss on this. Um, I"},{"t":7785,"text":"mean. Sure. I'll try to use up some of the"},{"t":7790,"text":"time allotted to me. Um, yeah, I would first like"},{"t":7795,"text":"to start by thanking, uh, resident Kelly Black, who's a"},{"t":7800,"text":"public historian who brought this to Council's attention on a"},{"t":7803,"text":"Thursday evening Council meeting, um, it's a bit of a"},{"t":7806,"text":"drum, uh, that they've been beating, uh, about, um, basically"},{"t":7812,"text":"what they called demolition by neglect. And, you know, they"},{"t":7816,"text":"made a good point when I was talking to them"},{"t":7818,"text":"about this that, uh, if this building were owned by"},{"t":7822,"text":"a private landlord, um, something likely would have been done"},{"t":7826,"text":"already. But because it's publicly owned by the province, um,"},{"t":7830,"text":"we haven't really had that conversation, uh, and, you know,"},{"t":7834,"text":"you could argue that the province is acting like a"},{"t":7836,"text":"derelict landlord. As I learned more about this building, putting"},{"t":7841,"text":"this motion together, uh, even today I learned something new"},{"t":7844,"text":"and I hope that my seconder, uh, share some of"},{"t":7846,"text":"that information. Um, but more importantly, this is about reactivating"},{"t":7851,"text":"public realm that is quite iconic in Victoria. It is"},{"t":7856,"text":"situated quite perfectly in a tourist hub. There is the"},{"t":7861,"text":"Bastion Square revitalization association who I spoke to recently. And"},{"t":7865,"text":"they said it would be so great to see this"},{"t":7866,"text":"move forward just to be able to actually animate the"},{"t":7871,"text":"space and go beyond a market. And they're quite keen"},{"t":7875,"text":"to work on this. And so, uh, staff, thank you"},{"t":7878,"text":"for the time that you have put in to making"},{"t":7880,"text":"sure this motion, um, was tight and is something that"},{"t":7885,"text":"you can work with. And I look forward to seeing"},{"t":7887,"text":"what you, what you find. And hopefully we can crack"},{"t":7892,"text":"down on the province on at least one thing, this"},{"t":7894,"text":"term. Thanks. Thank you very much. Councillor Coleman is the"},{"t":7897,"text":"secondary. Thank you. Um, this is, it's a fascinating building."},{"t":7902,"text":"It was actually City Hall for about 22 months when"},{"t":7908,"text":"this extension was being built. In the 60s. Um. At"},{"t":7913,"text":"a personal level, I've always loved this building because for"},{"t":7918,"text":"five and a half months, I went in and was"},{"t":7920,"text":"the interim executive director of the Maritime Museum of British"},{"t":7923,"text":"Columbia in those days. And took them through an executive"},{"t":7926,"text":"director search. But found, um, that the designations, the Heritage"},{"t":7933,"text":"designations are odd in many cases. The National Heritage Designation"},{"t":7940,"text":"applies to the third floor. It's the admiralty courtroom where"},{"t":7944,"text":"the Sophia case was deliberated the greatest tragedy on the"},{"t":7948,"text":"West Coast of Canada. It has still one of the"},{"t":7952,"text":"few left open Birdcage elevators in it. In Western North"},{"t":7958,"text":"America, you actually need a driver's license from the province"},{"t":7962,"text":"to use that. I was one of three people who"},{"t":7965,"text":"had a driver's license for it. I think I've still"},{"t":7967,"text":"got it somewhere. Um, it is, it's a fascinating building"},{"t":7972,"text":"that once you get inside, you fall in love with"},{"t":7974,"text":"it and you learn to love it. The problem is"},{"t":7978,"text":"seismic upgrading, uh, in those days, cause I was dealing"},{"t":7982,"text":"with the province. Was estimated at 350 to 500, 000"},{"t":7986,"text":"dollars a year. They didn't have the capacity to do"},{"t":7990,"text":"it. And now to restore the building properly. Would probably"},{"t":7995,"text":"be 50 million dollars plus. I don't know that. That's"},{"t":7998,"text":"an estimate on my part. If we'd started back then,"},{"t":8001,"text":"if we would have been halfway through there, um, but"},{"t":8004,"text":"we do need to protect this and bring it back."},{"t":8007,"text":"I know the number of applications have looked at it"},{"t":8011,"text":"in the past at one point, group wanted to make"},{"t":8013,"text":"it an auberge hotel. And they got scared away because"},{"t":8018,"text":"of the seismo cup grading. So something needs to be"},{"t":8021,"text":"done. And if you think to what we have seen"},{"t":8026,"text":"that went through neglect for many years, the Janion building."},{"t":8031,"text":"Was ignored. That was a private owner. And eventually it"},{"t":8034,"text":"got forced into, uh, rebuild and revivification. This is one"},{"t":8040,"text":"of those buildings that if we lose it, it will"},{"t":8043,"text":"be a tragedy for our cultural history. Thank you. Thank"},{"t":8047,"text":"you very much Councillor Caradona. Uh, thanks Mayor. Happy to"},{"t":8052,"text":"support this one, but do have a couple of questions"},{"t":8054,"text":"for staff. I have heard in the past that the"},{"t":8057,"text":"province has attempted to solicit this building for a dollar"},{"t":8060,"text":"or something like that. Is there is there any, does"},{"t":8062,"text":"anyone know the history of the province's attempts to unload"},{"t":8066,"text":"this building onto us? Or is that hearsay. That is"},{"t":8072,"text":"certainly not hearsay, but I'm not sure is that Mr."},{"t":8074,"text":"Rentucci, do you know the details of that? That was"},{"t":8075,"text":"a few years ago. Go ahead, please. Uh, through the"},{"t":8079,"text":"mirror. The only thing I'm aware of is in 2019,"},{"t":8083,"text":"I believe it was. There was an expression of interest"},{"t":8086,"text":"that the province issued on the building. But in terms"},{"t":8091,"text":"of my time here, there's never been an expression of"},{"t":8095,"text":"interest for someone to take on the renovation project. To"},{"t":8099,"text":"take on a project at the site. And through the"},{"t":8103,"text":"mayor, do we know what the outcome of that EOI"},{"t":8105,"text":"was? Through the mayor. Uh, there was no furtherance of"},{"t":8111,"text":"that EOI, so I can only assume that there either"},{"t":8114,"text":"wasn't sufficient interest or the proposals weren't something they want"},{"t":8120,"text":"to go. It was, as I recall, actually withdrawn after"},{"t":8122,"text":"there was an preliminary assessment done of the work that"},{"t":8125,"text":"would be required to repair the building. And in terms"},{"t":8127,"text":"of that, do we have any kind of updated estimate"},{"t":8130,"text":"of what the seismic cost would be? Or is that"},{"t":8132,"text":"now many years at a date? I don't think we"},{"t":8135,"text":"have, do we have anything? No, I wouldn't think so."},{"t":8138,"text":"The number 20 million is in my head for some"},{"t":8139,"text":"reason, but I don't know if that's accurate. And we're"},{"t":8141,"text":"getting nose from all of our staff. So I think"},{"t":8144,"text":"that's a no. Nobody quite knows yet. I mean, I"},{"t":8146,"text":"guess I'm happy to support this and my hope is"},{"t":8149,"text":"that the province will take this advocacy and potentially do"},{"t":8153,"text":"something in their current financial climate. I don't, I'm not"},{"t":8157,"text":"holding my breath on them coming up with 20 million"},{"t":8159,"text":"dollars, but I do think it raises a larger issue,"},{"t":8162,"text":"which is that there are so many heritage buildings that"},{"t":8166,"text":"require massive seismic upgrades. And a lot of them are"},{"t":8169,"text":"becoming shredded assets. And we just went through a rezoning"},{"t":8172,"text":"last week about the cathedral precinct and the entire motivation"},{"t":8176,"text":"for that rezoning is to come up with approximately 20"},{"t":8178,"text":"million dollars to restore and seismically upgrade the cathedral. And"},{"t":8183,"text":"there's not the same kind of ability to do that"},{"t":8185,"text":"around bash and square. But this, this is going to"},{"t":8188,"text":"be a problem moving forward in the city. There's a"},{"t":8190,"text":"lot of old heritage buildings and it's a bit of"},{"t":8192,"text":"a hot potato between us and the province. No one"},{"t":8194,"text":"really wants to take on the cost. We obviously can't"},{"t":8196,"text":"afford a 20 million dollar upgrade. So I don't know"},{"t":8199,"text":"where these things go, but it's, it's at the very"},{"t":8202,"text":"least worth an effort to put a little bit of"},{"t":8204,"text":"pressure on the province and say, look, this is a"},{"t":8206,"text":"key building. And by the way, we've heard from some"},{"t":8210,"text":"of the businesses around here, including the Francophone society. That"},{"t":8213,"text":"the fact that it's a stranded building and not activated"},{"t":8215,"text":"is a real problem for Bastion Square. And it contributes"},{"t":8218,"text":"to some of the issues in Bastion Square. And I"},{"t":8219,"text":"remember, I don't want to put people more than some"},{"t":8221,"text":"people's mouths, but one of the, one of the businesses"},{"t":8223,"text":"around there said use it or lose it. Do something"},{"t":8226,"text":"with it or something. Something needs to change there. It"},{"t":8229,"text":"can't just go on for decades being a derelict building."},{"t":8231,"text":"It's not fair to the city. Nor is it fair"},{"t":8235,"text":"to the history inheritage of the city. So in any"},{"t":8237,"text":"case, happiness support this and hopefully this jostle something loose"},{"t":8241,"text":"and moves something forward with the province. Thank you very"},{"t":8244,"text":"much. Council Gardner. First, thank you to Council Kim for"},{"t":8251,"text":"bringing this motion forward. The maritime is in left the"},{"t":8255,"text":"site many years ago. So the province could do seismic"},{"t":8258,"text":"work, which as we just heard wasn't done. But I"},{"t":8262,"text":"really enjoyed it when I went through it. And again,"},{"t":8264,"text":"has been mentioned that Byrd Cage elevator is even just"},{"t":8267,"text":"worth looking at. So I had been through this, you"},{"t":8271,"text":"know, the building a couple of times. I just loved"},{"t":8273,"text":"it. And I used to centurist there, even though it"},{"t":8276,"text":"was small. I mean, going through the exhibits, the maritime"},{"t":8279,"text":"museum was quite small, but it was still good because"},{"t":8282,"text":"it kind of suited the maritime museum because it was"},{"t":8285,"text":"that kind of old look about it. And I think"},{"t":8290,"text":"with this also speaks to something that we have been"},{"t":8292,"text":"discussing the last three days or some of us who"},{"t":8295,"text":"are the Canadian Capitol Cities organisation was the loss in"},{"t":8299,"text":"BC, of the provincial capital commission. This is the outcome"},{"t":8303,"text":"of that. Of the, you know, how the province has"},{"t":8308,"text":"really lost that interest in this city. And I think"},{"t":8312,"text":"that has been really telling and it's a real problem."},{"t":8315,"text":"It really is. I don't care if we're talking about"},{"t":8317,"text":"the causeway. I don't talk care of talking about the"},{"t":8320,"text":"buildings that have been given away and signed over to"},{"t":8323,"text":"others. But this one is a very, very important building."},{"t":8327,"text":"This building should not be lost. This building has so"},{"t":8331,"text":"much history in it that I believe we should keep"},{"t":8334,"text":"it. So I hope that, uh, any letter of the"},{"t":8337,"text":"mayor rights will reflect that. This has got to be"},{"t":8340,"text":"one of the most important buildings in our city that"},{"t":8343,"text":"we have left. And so I strongly support. And again,"},{"t":8347,"text":"thank, uh, Councillor King for bringing it forward. Thank you"},{"t":8350,"text":"very much. Anyone else in this one? Yes. Councillor Loughton"},{"t":8354,"text":"and then Councillor Dell. Thanks. And through you mayor. I"},{"t":8359,"text":"also want to. Commend the mover for reading this forward."},{"t":8364,"text":"Um, coincidentally I was in Edmonton this week for the"},{"t":8367,"text":"Canadian Capital Cities annual conference. And someone asked me about"},{"t":8372,"text":"this exact building on Wednesday. And here it is in"},{"t":8375,"text":"front of us today. So, um, I just appreciate it"},{"t":8379,"text":"being here. It is as has been mentioned. It's a"},{"t":8382,"text":"Heritage building. It's a national historic site. And it's, it's"},{"t":8385,"text":"incredibly important, um, to preserve this heritage. And I concur"},{"t":8391,"text":"with the losing the provincial capital commission as all provinces"},{"t":8395,"text":"across the country besides Saskatchewan have. That's, that's a real"},{"t":8398,"text":"problem for us and for Canada, um, writ large. So"},{"t":8406,"text":"I think that it's, it's important to, for staff to"},{"t":8410,"text":"take a look at this and also reflecting on the"},{"t":8413,"text":"conversation we had this morning about the need for hotels"},{"t":8416,"text":"and heritage conversions, you know, maybe there's some potential synergy"},{"t":8423,"text":"with the private market in this too. I'm not sure."},{"t":8426,"text":"I'm not sure what the possibilities of that are. Um,"},{"t":8429,"text":"but it would be interesting to have some information on"},{"t":8432,"text":"that when the report comes back. So I'm really happy"},{"t":8436,"text":"to support this. And I hope that we can do"},{"t":8438,"text":"everything we can as a council to do the important"},{"t":8444,"text":"upgrades and keep this historic building. As part of our"},{"t":8450,"text":"city. Thanks. Thank you very much, Councillor. No, good. Uh,"},{"t":8455,"text":"Councillor Thompson. I'll be brief. Yes. I'm, um, optimistic. I"},{"t":8461,"text":"don't know if I'm hopeful. This has indeed been sitting"},{"t":8464,"text":"empty for years and years. It's been multiple governments with,"},{"t":8469,"text":"I think two or three political parties involved in those"},{"t":8471,"text":"governments. Um, it is interesting architecture for sure. Uh, important"},{"t":8477,"text":"heritage. And some of the history is glorious and fun."},{"t":8481,"text":"And some of it is not, uh, and that's just"},{"t":8484,"text":"as important. And I'm, I'm referring here to hanging Judge"},{"t":8488,"text":"Begby who presided over a number of trials that resulted"},{"t":8492,"text":"in executions in that square, uh, including, uh, five chill"},{"t":8497,"text":"coat and chiefs an apology has been offered in respect"},{"t":8502,"text":"of those. But I think that's, we need to acknowledge"},{"t":8505,"text":"that history and that heritage as well, uh, and I"},{"t":8508,"text":"think that, uh, having the building be open to the"},{"t":8513,"text":"public provides a great opportunity to give, uh, thanks. Thank"},{"t":8519,"text":"you very much. Anybody else on this one. Not seeing"},{"t":8524,"text":"any other commentators and moved in seconded and discussed. All"},{"t":8528,"text":"those in favor. Is anyone opposed? I believe that is"},{"t":8533,"text":"unanimous. You may recall counsel that we did have a"},{"t":8537,"text":"late item added that would have become item I4. That"},{"t":8540,"text":"was the advocacy motion with your guard to urging the"},{"t":8542,"text":"province to reinstate or replace the Community Housing Fund. That"},{"t":8546,"text":"was added to the consent agenda. And so that has"},{"t":8549,"text":"been dealt with in real turn to us at a"},{"t":8551,"text":"daytime council meeting. I can't remember whether that's coming forward"},{"t":8554,"text":"today, but I believe it is. That being said, we"},{"t":8557,"text":"do not have then an item that requires closed meeting"},{"t":8560,"text":"consideration at Committee today. So I would look for emotion"},{"t":8563,"text":"to a journey. Thanks, Councillor Coleman. Second of my Councillor"},{"t":8566,"text":"Kim, all those in favor. Anybody opposed. That is unanimous."},{"t":8570,"text":"Um, I would suggest that actually that we're just taking"},{"t":8572,"text":"a few minutes to let stuff convert us into the"},{"t":8575,"text":"daytime council meeting. We could get started rather than wait,"},{"t":8578,"text":"uh, or lose this time. So let's just take whatever"},{"t":8581,"text":"staff need. And we'll begin our datum Council meeting."}],"words":23950,"fetchedAt":"2026-10-03T05:18:47.353Z"}