{"videoId":"https://video.isilive.ca/victoria/New%20Encoder_COTW_2026-07-30-12-01.mp4","source":"isilive_vtt","segments":[{"t":76,"text":"And we try always to do so, remembering the lessons"},{"t":79,"text":"that we learn from the nations, observing how much commitment"},{"t":83,"text":"they have put into their care and attention over so"},{"t":86,"text":"many centuries, and also trying to consider the challenges that"},{"t":90,"text":"face us day - to - day and consider all"},{"t":91,"text":"of that together with decisions we hope will be the"},{"t":93,"text":"best for those who are here and those who are"},{"t":95,"text":"coming. We had an opportunity just yesterday for a number"},{"t":100,"text":"of us, including a number of our staff to join"},{"t":102,"text":"with Songhees and Kosapsum as they hosted an elder's luncheon"},{"t":108,"text":"for elders from across many."},{"t":244,"text":"In this case, the application of three particular sections of"},{"t":248,"text":"our procedures by a lot, and I'll just remind people"},{"t":249,"text":"what they are. Under section 19 sub 1 sub B,"},{"t":253,"text":"it requires a submission of a late item to be"},{"t":256,"text":"sent in at least 48 hours before the meeting, which"},{"t":258,"text":"is to be considered. Section 19, sub 1 sub c"},{"t":261,"text":"requires that the motion include a rationale, noting that time"},{"t":264,"text":"sensitivity for its consideration. And section 15 sub 6 requires"},{"t":268,"text":"distribution to council members before the matter is considered, excuse"},{"t":272,"text":"me, all these requirements have been met, but in considering"},{"t":275,"text":"the addition of this item, another section of our procedural"},{"t":278,"text":"bioluses to be met, and that is of course sections"},{"t":282,"text":"15 sub 5, which requires a 2 3rds majority to"},{"t":284,"text":"add the item to the agenda. We'll remind people that"},{"t":288,"text":"we're not considering the item itself, but just whether or"},{"t":290,"text":"not to consider it during today's considerations on the agenda."},{"t":294,"text":"So this comes from Councillor Loten, so I'm going to"},{"t":296,"text":"ask Councillor Artin first to move that this item be"},{"t":298,"text":"read to the agenda for today as what would be"},{"t":302,"text":"an item GE5, and then I will look for a"},{"t":304,"text":"secondary. I'd like to move that Councillor Loton? Yes, please."},{"t":308,"text":"Very good, thank you for joining on your green light."},{"t":310,"text":"Is there a seconder for adding it? Thanks, Councillor Thompson."},{"t":312,"text":"So Councillor Loten, just very briefly, please just tell us"},{"t":315,"text":"why this requires attention today, not on the contents or"},{"t":319,"text":"the merits of the motion, but Justin White should be"},{"t":321,"text":"considered today. Thank you, good morning. And through you, Mayor."},{"t":325,"text":"The reason it's here today is because this is our"},{"t":328,"text":"last council meeting until September, so we're not meeting again"},{"t":331,"text":"for five weeks. And I believe that the extremity of"},{"t":334,"text":"this situation and the impact it has on our residents,"},{"t":338,"text":"merits it to be considered before we recess for August."},{"t":343,"text":"Thank you very much. Councillor Thompson, you second it is."},{"t":345,"text":"Do you have anything to add on the merit's batting"},{"t":347,"text":"today? Briefly at my regular monthly meetings with service providers"},{"t":352,"text":"and folks who work on the 900 block. It seems"},{"t":354,"text":"like the metatomidine crisis is quickly evolving. And so I"},{"t":357,"text":"think quick action is warranted. Thank you very much for"},{"t":360,"text":"that. It would be unusual, frosted debate, the addition. And"},{"t":363,"text":"so unless anyone has something anxious to say, I'm going"},{"t":366,"text":"to put the question. And so remember, this is simply"},{"t":368,"text":"on whether or not to add it to the agenda,"},{"t":370,"text":"not on the merits of the substance, which should it"},{"t":372,"text":"be added to the agenda we will discuss later. So"},{"t":375,"text":"on adding this to the agenda today, all those in"},{"t":378,"text":"favor. Is anyone opposed. No one appears to be opposed,"},{"t":383,"text":"so we will add that to the agenda. It will"},{"t":385,"text":"become a new agenda item G5. Thank you very much"},{"t":388,"text":"for that. Looking therefore on to item D, this would"},{"t":393,"text":"be the approval of the now amended agenda. It's someone"},{"t":395,"text":"like to move that, please. Councillor Thompson's moving. Some of"},{"t":399,"text":"the second concert came a seconding. Any comments on the"},{"t":401,"text":"amended agenda. Seeing none all those in favor. Anybody opposed."},{"t":408,"text":"You're opposed? You get to pull. We're not on the"},{"t":411,"text":"consent agenda, yes. We're just on the main agenda, yeah."},{"t":414,"text":"Now in fact, that is peer to be unanimous for"},{"t":417,"text":"the published agenda as amended. So now we are on"},{"t":419,"text":"the consent agenda. There were four items proposed for today."},{"t":422,"text":"I'll just read them out with the information of the"},{"t":424,"text":"public. That would be item G1, the Council Member Motion"},{"t":428,"text":"for Advocacy to the Provincial Government on continued operating subsidies"},{"t":431,"text":"from a COLA housing. Idem G2, the Council Member Motion"},{"t":435,"text":"on Advocacy to improve the return of fugitives wanted on"},{"t":438,"text":"warrants, item G3, the Council Member Motion formalizing a fair"},{"t":441,"text":"wages policy. And item G4, a consultant member motion establishing"},{"t":445,"text":"a buy name list for the City of Victoria. Does"},{"t":449,"text":"anyone wish to add or remove any of these items?"},{"t":451,"text":"Go ahead, Councillor Gardner. G4. G4. Anybody else? That's what"},{"t":457,"text":"Kim? G2. G2. Okay. Anybody else. Nope. Okay, so that"},{"t":465,"text":"would mean that as a convention, we just do remove"},{"t":467,"text":"things when people request that. So that relieves on the"},{"t":470,"text":"consented Jetta item G1, the Council Member Motion Advocacy to"},{"t":474,"text":"the Provincial Government on continued operating subsidies from a COLA"},{"t":477,"text":"housing and item G3, the Council Member Motion formalizing a"},{"t":481,"text":"fair wages policy. Someone like to move the consent agenda,"},{"t":484,"text":"please? Yes, go ahead, please. Adding G5. Well, I suppose"},{"t":491,"text":"we could. Item G5 was the one that was just"},{"t":494,"text":"added to the list today. I would look to the"},{"t":498,"text":"mover. I'm seeing people get shaking their heads. Nope. Okay."},{"t":502,"text":"So that would be as good as our convention of"},{"t":504,"text":"somewhat objects. Then we usually don't. So we'll leave that"},{"t":507,"text":"on as item G5. But thank you for that suggestion."},{"t":510,"text":"Anything else anyone would like to add? I don't really"},{"t":512,"text":"think there's that qualifies. Okay. And then the consentergendo, as"},{"t":517,"text":"I mentioned, is G2 and G rather G1 and G3."},{"t":520,"text":"Someone like to move the consent agenda, please. Thanks, Councillor"},{"t":523,"text":"Kim, seconded by Councillor Loughton. All those in favor. Anyone"},{"t":526,"text":"opposed. That is unanimous. Okay. That then takes us on"},{"t":531,"text":"to the first of our staff reports. This would be"},{"t":533,"text":"item F1. This is the review of the tenant protection"},{"t":536,"text":"bylaw compensation requirements. You can have our staff come up"},{"t":539,"text":"once they get settled. They can begin their work."},{"t":557,"text":"Once your subtlet, you can start us up of course"},{"t":559,"text":"by introducing yourselves to the public. We hope by this"},{"t":562,"text":"time we know who you are, but you never know."},{"t":564,"text":"And then you can set off when you're ready. Uh,"},{"t":568,"text":"good morning, Mayor Alto and Council. I'm Andrea Hudson, Assistant"},{"t":572,"text":"Director of Citywide Planning, uh, with me is Ross Sauerd,"},{"t":576,"text":"our manager of housing. And I will turn it over"},{"t":578,"text":"to Ross to walk you through the staff report. Very"},{"t":580,"text":"good. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Howard. Thank you, Mayor"},{"t":583,"text":"and Council. Good morning. Uh, my name's Ross Sauerd, housing"},{"t":587,"text":"manager here today to present the review of compensation requirements"},{"t":591,"text":"for Victoria's tenant protection bylaw. In fall of 2025, Council"},{"t":599,"text":"adopted, uh, I knew tenant protection bylaw. And the bylaw"},{"t":604,"text":"seeks to mitigate the impacts of displacement for tenants where"},{"t":608,"text":"we see redevelopment of rental housing. In May of 2025,"},{"t":612,"text":"Council expressed an interest in understanding whether elements of the"},{"t":615,"text":"current tenant compensation framework could be enhanced and how such"},{"t":619,"text":"enhancements might affect redevelopment feasibility. And Stafford here today to"},{"t":624,"text":"share our review of 10 compensation levels under the bylaw."},{"t":630,"text":"For background, I wanted to quickly review the various ways"},{"t":633,"text":"the bylaws supports tenants and mitigates the impacts of displacement."},{"t":636,"text":"It's helpful to understand the broader approach to tend support"},{"t":640,"text":"in addition to the base compensation levels, which are often"},{"t":643,"text":"what we focus on when we, when we're thinking about"},{"t":646,"text":"in discussing compensation under the bylaw. So looking at compensation"},{"t":652,"text":"package for tenants all displaced tenants receive base financial compensation"},{"t":657,"text":"that reflects the length of their tendency and the size"},{"t":660,"text":"of their home. And the bylaw also ensures tenants receive"},{"t":663,"text":"financial compensation to offset the cost of moving, sort of"},{"t":667,"text":"moving cost assistance. The landowner or developer is also required"},{"t":671,"text":"to work with impact attendance to find three alternate housing"},{"t":675,"text":"options as part of relocation support. The Cities tend to"},{"t":679,"text":"assistance planner will also review these options to make sure"},{"t":681,"text":"the developer is attempting to address the needs of the"},{"t":683,"text":"tenants. And if the developer is not able to find"},{"t":687,"text":"a rental home with roughly the same rent rate, the"},{"t":689,"text":"developer is required to provide additional compensation in the amount"},{"t":692,"text":"of one month strength. The bylaw, um, also provides, uh,"},{"t":699,"text":"what we refer to as write of first refusal. And"},{"t":701,"text":"so this allows impact attendance with the opportunity to return"},{"t":704,"text":"to a similar unit in the new building at 20"},{"t":708,"text":"percent below market rent rate. So currently under our bylaw,"},{"t":712,"text":"this equates to, uh, roughly 1, 700 a month for"},{"t":714,"text":"a one bedroom unit. So those are the sort of"},{"t":717,"text":"three core elements of compensation, uh, and sort of support"},{"t":720,"text":"under the bylaw. But the key part of the biolog"},{"t":724,"text":"that it's also worth highlighting when we talk about compensation"},{"t":727,"text":"support. Under the bylaw, all projects must have their impact"},{"t":732,"text":"attendance complete a household needs assessment. And. Through that needs"},{"t":738,"text":"assessment, city staff are able to identify tenants who are"},{"t":742,"text":"more vulnerable and have the ability under the bylaw to"},{"t":745,"text":"require additional support. So staff use this infoto, then work"},{"t":747,"text":"with the developer and negotiate additional support beyond the minimum"},{"t":751,"text":"requirements of the bylaw and beyond the base compensation levels"},{"t":754,"text":"that are identified in the bylaw. So when we talk"},{"t":756,"text":"about the compensation package provided by the City's bylaw, it's"},{"t":759,"text":"important to think about how these different supports work together"},{"t":761,"text":"to help displaced hands and especially vulnerable tats. As part"},{"t":767,"text":"of the review, we undertook a high - level jurisdictional"},{"t":769,"text":"scan and several of the strongest tenant protection frameworks in"},{"t":772,"text":"BCU were reviewed to identify best practices and assess Victoria's"},{"t":776,"text":"compensation levels. Victoria's holistic approach to tenant protection remains a"},{"t":781,"text":"leading practice and our base compensation levels for tendencies between"},{"t":785,"text":"zero and ten years is generally well aligned with other"},{"t":788,"text":"leading jurisdictions. Vancouver notably provides additional compensation for tenancy's longer"},{"t":793,"text":"than 10 years. And generally when we look at our"},{"t":795,"text":"compensation levels under the current bylaw, one gap that did,"},{"t":801,"text":"that was identified compared to other communities is really looking"},{"t":803,"text":"at the increased compensation for tenants with tendencies of 20"},{"t":808,"text":"years or longer. So also it's notable that several communities,"},{"t":814,"text":"um, only apply their tenant protection requirements to purpose rental"},{"t":817,"text":"buildings with five or more units where there's redevelopment. Whereas"},{"t":822,"text":"Victoria's bylaw applies to all redevelopment regardless of the size"},{"t":826,"text":"if there's displacement of a renter. So overall compared to"},{"t":829,"text":"other leading municipalities, the City's compensation package remains amongst the"},{"t":833,"text":"most comprehensive in the province. As part of the review,"},{"t":839,"text":"staff worked with a land economist to assess how additional"},{"t":842,"text":"tenant compensation would impact financial viability of redevelopment. And the"},{"t":846,"text":"analysis tested various project performance for their capacity to support"},{"t":849,"text":"enhanced one - time financial compensation and a moving expense"},{"t":853,"text":"assistance. As well as enhanced write a first refusal requirements."},{"t":858,"text":"The financial analysis found that increases to the base compensation"},{"t":862,"text":"and moving support requirements do account for a small percentage"},{"t":866,"text":"of the overall project costs, and therefore do have relatively"},{"t":870,"text":"minor impacts on project viability. However, under our current challenging"},{"t":875,"text":"market conditions, the baseline feasibility can be marginal in many"},{"t":880,"text":"cases already. And so increased compensation requirements does shit, does"},{"t":885,"text":"risk sort of shifting marginal projects into tipping them into"},{"t":889,"text":"a, you know, being unviable in some cases. So writer"},{"t":892,"text":"first, refusal levels and the associated uptake had the most"},{"t":895,"text":"significant impact on viability based on the analysis, uh, given"},{"t":900,"text":"that those writer first refusal units could potentially be occupied"},{"t":903,"text":"at below market rates for an extended period of time"},{"t":905,"text":"and then have a longer impact on the viability of"},{"t":907,"text":"a project. Uh, so our under our analysis really underscored"},{"t":912,"text":"the high risk of increasing the ray of first refusal"},{"t":915,"text":"offering, especially under current market conditions. Also the analysis highlighted"},{"t":918,"text":"that the city should be judicious in adding any new"},{"t":921,"text":"compensation requirements given the current challenging market conditions at this"},{"t":924,"text":"time. As we think about the compensation requirements, I wanted"},{"t":929,"text":"to share an example of how the training protection bylaw"},{"t":932,"text":"works in action to illustrate that holistic support provided by"},{"t":935,"text":"the bylaw. Uh, a larger rental redevelopment displaced three single"},{"t":939,"text":"detached homes with tenants and they were required to comply"},{"t":942,"text":"with the bylaw. Uh, as per the bylaw, the tenants"},{"t":945,"text":"completed their household needs assessment, which identified a refugee family"},{"t":948,"text":"of eight with very low income and limited English skills"},{"t":951,"text":"living in one of the three bedroom homes slated for"},{"t":953,"text":"redevelopment. The tenants completed their household needs assessment. Um, and"},{"t":959,"text":"through that work, the tense assistance planner used this information"},{"t":962,"text":"to work with the developer to secure additional financial support."},{"t":968,"text":"An additional 15, 000 dollars was secured above the base"},{"t":971,"text":"compensation required, bringing the families total compensation to 25, 000"},{"t":975,"text":"based on the fact that they were a vulnerable family"},{"t":977,"text":"that was identified through that household needs assessment. And we're"},{"t":980,"text":"able to advocate on their behalf. However, the family still"},{"t":984,"text":"struggled to secure a new rental home on that private"},{"t":987,"text":"market, even with the landlord helping and the tenant relocation"},{"t":990,"text":"planner, uh, helping them due to their large household size"},{"t":994,"text":"and low income, even with some of the children having"},{"t":996,"text":"moved out by this point, a six member family is"},{"t":999,"text":"not typically accepted to a three bedroom home on the"},{"t":1001,"text":"open market. And as the eviction date approached, the tenant"},{"t":1005,"text":"planner reached out to property management companies in the region"},{"t":1007,"text":"and explained the urgency of the situation after explaining the"},{"t":1011,"text":"family situation, the CEO of Devin properties gave direction to"},{"t":1014,"text":"leasing staff to waive typical policies around income verification and"},{"t":1018,"text":"household size in this case. And the tendon to planner"},{"t":1021,"text":"accompanied the family to three viewings to help them understand"},{"t":1023,"text":"the pros and cons of different rental homes. In the"},{"t":1025,"text":"end, the family signed a lease with Devin properties for"},{"t":1029,"text":"a larger three bedroom home that met their needs. And"},{"t":1032,"text":"I'm sharing this story just because I think it shows"},{"t":1034,"text":"that the cities tend protection bylaw remains a powerful tool"},{"t":1037,"text":"to understand the needs of displaced tenants and provides a"},{"t":1040,"text":"range of supports and compensation beyond just that one -"},{"t":1043,"text":"time based compensation that we often talk about, um, to"},{"t":1046,"text":"mitigate the impacts of displacement and especially where they're vulnerable"},{"t":1049,"text":"households identified through that household needs assessment process. As per"},{"t":1055,"text":"to the story and the jurisdictional review completed, the City's"},{"t":1058,"text":"10 protection by a law continues to provide high level"},{"t":1060,"text":"support to displace tenants in our community. At the same"},{"t":1062,"text":"time, the economic analysis completed confirms the current economic conditions"},{"t":1067,"text":"are really quite challenging. Our challenging the baseline feasibility of"},{"t":1070,"text":"redevelopment in many cases right now, uh, therefore targeted and"},{"t":1074,"text":"enhancements are recommended that would have limited impact on project"},{"t":1077,"text":"feasibility. Increases to base compensation for longer term tendencies are"},{"t":1082,"text":"recommended. And this would have limited impact on project viability"},{"t":1085,"text":"as would only apply to the few instances where those"},{"t":1087,"text":"long - term tendencies exist. But this additional support is"},{"t":1090,"text":"valuable as we do often see tents with very long"},{"t":1093,"text":"- term tendencies are some of the most vulnerable to"},{"t":1095,"text":"displacement. It's also recommended to make a small increase to"},{"t":1099,"text":"the moving expense compensation to align with other jurisdictions, uh,"},{"t":1102,"text":"and better reflect current moving costs. These added costs would"},{"t":1105,"text":"generally have a minor impact overall project costs, uh, and"},{"t":1109,"text":"they are predictable one time costs for applicants as opposed"},{"t":1112,"text":"to an ongoing cost like a writer first refusal, um,"},{"t":1115,"text":"or something that maybe adds uncertainty to a project. In"},{"t":1121,"text":"conclusion, the compensation and supports provided under the tenant protection"},{"t":1124,"text":"bylaw continue to be a leading practice in the province,"},{"t":1127,"text":"minor enhancements for long - term tendencies and updates to"},{"t":1130,"text":"moving costs, compensation would address and identified gap in Victorious"},{"t":1133,"text":"bylaw, while minimally impacting development viability and a challenging climate."},{"t":1138,"text":"And to summarize, we're seeking direction to bring forth amendments"},{"t":1141,"text":"to the tenant prediction bylaw to increase compensation for tens"},{"t":1144,"text":"with long - term tendencies and increase moving cost compensation."},{"t":1148,"text":"We're also seeking direction to make one other minor housekeeping"},{"t":1150,"text":"update to adjust the bylaws writer first refusal rent rate"},{"t":1154,"text":"requirement just to align with the previous tenant systems policy,"},{"t":1158,"text":"um, that was something that was missed when we brought"},{"t":1159,"text":"the bylaw forward the first time around. Uh, thank you"},{"t":1163,"text":"Mayor and Council. That concludes my presentation. Thank you very"},{"t":1166,"text":"much. We'll start as usual with questions. Cons for him"},{"t":1169,"text":"and Councillor Gardner and Councillor Delp. Councillor Hammond, sorry. I"},{"t":1175,"text":"was just blanking on who you over. Uh, I guess"},{"t":1177,"text":"we need a break. Seriously. Go ahead. Councillor Hammond. Thanks."},{"t":1182,"text":"And thanks for the presentation. Um, through you mayor, can"},{"t":1185,"text":"you tell us who you consulted regarding this and briefly"},{"t":1188,"text":"tell us what was suggested from the people that you"},{"t":1191,"text":"spoke to. Mr. Selward. Yeah. Oh my God. It's through"},{"t":1197,"text":"the mayor. Um, yeah, so through our, our consultation in"},{"t":1202,"text":"terms of supporting this review, uh, we spoke to, uh,"},{"t":1206,"text":"a couple of different groups, um, so certainly recognising that"},{"t":1210,"text":"the bylaw was just, just adopted in fall of last"},{"t":1215,"text":"year. Um, I think generally we were seeing this as"},{"t":1218,"text":"more of an opportunity to look at where are maybe"},{"t":1222,"text":"the tweaks and sort of adjustments we could make. And"},{"t":1224,"text":"therefore, I think we really tried to tailor and focus"},{"t":1228,"text":"our consultation towards, um, sort of the folks in the"},{"t":1232,"text":"development community who helped us understand the kind of current"},{"t":1235,"text":"market conditions and the pro formas and how any kind"},{"t":1239,"text":"of changes to the bylaw would, um, impact the viability."},{"t":1243,"text":"So we did meet with, um, with developers and representatives"},{"t":1247,"text":"of UDI. We also had, uh, made an effort to"},{"t":1251,"text":"get the tenant perspective as well. Um, so we met"},{"t":1254,"text":"with, um, taps, uh, who are a local nonprofit organisation"},{"t":1261,"text":"that helped support tenants, especially vulnerable tenants in our community,"},{"t":1265,"text":"uh, and so we met with them, uh, about the"},{"t":1268,"text":"bylaw. And yeah, I guess in terms of your second"},{"t":1271,"text":"point of the question, I think, you know, developers spoke"},{"t":1274,"text":"to the challenges of, um. Of the, of adding more"},{"t":1279,"text":"to ReadyFurst Refusal, just recognising how that impacts their Proforma"},{"t":1283,"text":"and increases risk generally and that some lenders really look"},{"t":1286,"text":"at that in a pretty, uh, I guess, uh, challenging"},{"t":1290,"text":"way for their economic, um, kind of analysis they put"},{"t":1293,"text":"together. Taps, I would say really highlighted the importance of"},{"t":1297,"text":"the city continuing to look at ways to really improve"},{"t":1300,"text":"that relocation support component of the, of the bylaw. Um,"},{"t":1304,"text":"and I think they were, uh, excited to hear about"},{"t":1307,"text":"some of the work that's going on with the social"},{"t":1309,"text":"planning council in terms of taking on more of that"},{"t":1311,"text":"in a reallocation coordination, um, role and working with some"},{"t":1315,"text":"developers in the community right now through some pilot projects."},{"t":1318,"text":"We also, um, as part of this review, uh, did"},{"t":1322,"text":"include a, some meetings with, um, tenants who had previously"},{"t":1326,"text":"participated in or had previously been impacted by displacement and"},{"t":1330,"text":"therefore had been part of a 10 assistance plan in"},{"t":1333,"text":"the past. And we spoke with, uh, those tenants, um,"},{"t":1337,"text":"sort of through this process and sort of at the"},{"t":1339,"text":"tail end of our OCP process, I would say, um,"},{"t":1342,"text":"and generally they're a big takeaway from them was that,"},{"t":1347,"text":"um, moving, moving support could be increased a little bit"},{"t":1351,"text":"more. Um, but they generally found that the compensation was"},{"t":1355,"text":"fair based on the conversations we had with those tenants."},{"t":1358,"text":"Um, but I think we've continued to hear in terms"},{"t":1360,"text":"of our tenant assistance planner talks with tenants on a"},{"t":1364,"text":"daily basis. And so our tennis isn't planner, I think,"},{"t":1368,"text":"you know, continues to hear some of the challenges of"},{"t":1370,"text":"just understanding an awareness around, uh, the tenant protection bylaw."},{"t":1374,"text":"Um, and so I think that's another, I think area"},{"t":1377,"text":"just in terms of education about the tenant protection bylaws."},{"t":1380,"text":"So people know what their rights are, I guess as"},{"t":1383,"text":"they, uh, if they are in case displaced. So I"},{"t":1386,"text":"would say that's, that's sort of the at a high"},{"t":1387,"text":"level. Thanks, Mayor. And through you on the issue of"},{"t":1391,"text":"the extra compensation for vulnerable tenants, is there a limit"},{"t":1394,"text":"on that. Through the mayor, the bylaw and the way"},{"t":1399,"text":"it is written is, I would say, um, written in"},{"t":1403,"text":"a way that I think provides a fair bit of"},{"t":1405,"text":"flexibility and discretion, uh, to staff in terms of, uh,"},{"t":1409,"text":"it enables the director to request additional support. And generally"},{"t":1414,"text":"the 10 assistance planner, um, sort of work with both"},{"t":1418,"text":"the tenants and the developer based on that household needs"},{"t":1420,"text":"assessment to try to find something that sort of works"},{"t":1423,"text":"for both parties. Thanks, Mayor. And through you, the last"},{"t":1427,"text":"time around for some reason there was something stuck in"},{"t":1429,"text":"my head that I thought there was a limit of"},{"t":1431,"text":"maybe if it was conversation, maybe another month. But is"},{"t":1434,"text":"that not the case? Sorry. Uh, through there. So in"},{"t":1438,"text":"cases where there is, um, where the three, um, alternate"},{"t":1444,"text":"housing options are provided, but there's a kind of not,"},{"t":1450,"text":"there's a gap, I guess, between what the current rent"},{"t":1452,"text":"is and what the alternate housing options are provided. And"},{"t":1455,"text":"those cases an additional months rent is provided as well."},{"t":1459,"text":"So maybe that's what you're thinking of. No, I'm aware"},{"t":1462,"text":"of that. So there's no otherwise the limit for vulnerable"},{"t":1465,"text":"tenants. You, you do what you can. Is that it?"},{"t":1468,"text":"Read the mayor. That's correct. Okay. Thanks. Great. And, um,"},{"t":1471,"text":"through you mayor on page two of the report, the"},{"t":1474,"text":"staff report, it reads despite a challenging economic environment. The"},{"t":1478,"text":"analysis demonstrates that the tenant protection bylaws one time compensation"},{"t":1481,"text":"represents a small share of project costs and that targeted"},{"t":1486,"text":"increases have limited impact on project viability. End quote. I"},{"t":1491,"text":"was impressed to read that. If the staff first suggesting"},{"t":1494,"text":"more generous compensation for the very long - term tenons"},{"t":1497,"text":"of 20 to 40 years longer. And if you note"},{"t":1500,"text":"that one time compensation will have quote, limited impact on"},{"t":1502,"text":"project viability.\" Then why not give greater compensation for tenants"},{"t":1507,"text":"who have rented in the same building for 10 to"},{"t":1510,"text":"20 years. Mr. Sard. Through the mayor. I think at"},{"t":1520,"text":"this point in time, you know, in terms of our"},{"t":1522,"text":"conversations we've had with tenants, we've generally have heard that"},{"t":1527,"text":"the compensation seems fair from their perspective. I think also,"},{"t":1534,"text":"I think although the compensation increases, although one time compensation"},{"t":1539,"text":"represents a small, a relatively small increase, um, you know,"},{"t":1543,"text":"we are sensitive to the fact that it's the baseline"},{"t":1547,"text":"feasibility, uh, is, can be marginal in many cases. And"},{"t":1550,"text":"so really adding any additional costs, um, can be, could"},{"t":1556,"text":"be something that could tip a project in towards, you"},{"t":1558,"text":"know, moving away from being viable. I think a lot"},{"t":1561,"text":"of projects are in that really marginal case right now."},{"t":1563,"text":"And so, you know, certainly through conversations with development community,"},{"t":1567,"text":"I think they're asking for ways that we can, you"},{"t":1570,"text":"know, minimize impacts in terms of increasing cost to them."},{"t":1573,"text":"So I think we looked at generally our, you know,"},{"t":1577,"text":"we felt as though our overall compensation levels for, you"},{"t":1582,"text":"know, up to, up to 20 years, it seems to"},{"t":1584,"text":"be generally, um, in a good place in relation to"},{"t":1588,"text":"other communities, uh, and we hadn't heard a lot in"},{"t":1592,"text":"consultation with TAPS or impacted tenants. And so I think"},{"t":1596,"text":"we're trying to be more focused on area that was"},{"t":1599,"text":"identified as a gap, uh, within the bylaw as opposed"},{"t":1602,"text":"to increasing that sort of 10 to 20 years. Thanks,"},{"t":1608,"text":"Mayor. And through you then, if your conclusion was that"},{"t":1613,"text":"you could give substantial increases, like it's quite substantial from"},{"t":1617,"text":"six months to 12 months and then 18 and 24"},{"t":1619,"text":"months. That seems like a lot more. So was the"},{"t":1624,"text":"conclusion in there that there's just not that many people"},{"t":1626,"text":"who would be in the 10 to 40 years category."},{"t":1631,"text":"Is it sour? Yeah. I would say the 20 to"},{"t":1633,"text":"40 years, uh, is definitely a much smaller number of"},{"t":1638,"text":"tenants. I think we did some analysis around the, um,"},{"t":1643,"text":"you know, the, the sort of universe of, uh, impacted"},{"t":1647,"text":"tenants that we've done taps with over like the last"},{"t":1649,"text":"eight years or so. And I think it's somewhere in"},{"t":1652,"text":"the neighbourhood of four percent of tenants represent those 20"},{"t":1655,"text":"plus year tenants. But that being said, they often can"},{"t":1658,"text":"be some of the more vulnerable in terms of displacement"},{"t":1661,"text":"based on paying lower rents. Maybe they're on fixed income."},{"t":1665,"text":"They've been in those, those units for a long time."},{"t":1668,"text":"Maybe they, you know, they're very sort of stabilized in"},{"t":1673,"text":"their current situation. And so sort of moving them when"},{"t":1675,"text":"they've been there for that long is, you know, quite"},{"t":1677,"text":"an impact to their overall kind of quality of life."},{"t":1681,"text":"Councillor. Thanks, Mayor, for some reason my computer just lost"},{"t":1686,"text":"my spots on this. Just one second."},{"t":1697,"text":"Okay. Just a second. Okay. There we go. I'm back."},{"t":1705,"text":"Um. So did Staff following up on that. Did Staff"},{"t":1711,"text":"come up with estimated costs for compensation of the 12"},{"t":1714,"text":"months, the 18 months and the 24 months. Mr. Summer."},{"t":1718,"text":"Through the mayor, sorry. Can you repeat the question? Did"},{"t":1722,"text":"Staff come up with estimated costs? Um, on what would"},{"t":1724,"text":"be the compensation when you included 12 months, 18 months"},{"t":1728,"text":"and 24 months for people who were in 2030 and"},{"t":1731,"text":"40 years, uh, tendency. She started. Through the mayor."},{"t":1741,"text":"Yeah, I think we've, we've, I guess we've analysed that"},{"t":1745,"text":"that sort of impact, but I think generally, um. Recognising"},{"t":1750,"text":"the small, this isn't a smaller number of tenants that"},{"t":1755,"text":"would reflect that category of, uh, tenancy, um, and, uh,"},{"t":1761,"text":"and therefore it would probably only be, you know, one"},{"t":1765,"text":"or two tenants per project at the very most. I"},{"t":1768,"text":"think we, we felt like that was probably worth a"},{"t":1774,"text":"worth considering given, given the direction from council. Thanks, Mayor."},{"t":1778,"text":"And through you according to the CMHC, the turnover rate"},{"t":1781,"text":"for the City of Victoria for October, 2025 is 16."},{"t":1785,"text":"7 percent. However, they don't seem to have stats on"},{"t":1788,"text":"how many people actually stay in an apartment. So, so"},{"t":1791,"text":"that we could say that one out of, so we"},{"t":1794,"text":"can't say the one out of every six apartments gets"},{"t":1796,"text":"a new tenant every year. And we could extrapolate that"},{"t":1799,"text":"that means the average tendon stays for six years. The"},{"t":1801,"text":"difficulty with that, for example, as you got one renter"},{"t":1805,"text":"or several renters who might leave after one year while"},{"t":1808,"text":"you've got others that are going to be there for"},{"t":1810,"text":"20 or 30 years or longer, what did your analysis"},{"t":1813,"text":"reveal regarding how many years people tend to stay in"},{"t":1816,"text":"apartments before moving? And what have you found so far"},{"t":1820,"text":"for people who have been compensated under a bylaw policy"},{"t":1823,"text":"in the bylaw. Mr. Howard. Uh, through the mayor, you"},{"t":1828,"text":"know, I think I would just caveat this by saying,"},{"t":1831,"text":"you know, we've looked at our, like some of the"},{"t":1833,"text":"taps that have been approved, um, in our processes, but"},{"t":1838,"text":"that's, you know, a very small sample of what the"},{"t":1841,"text":"overall, um, I guess activity in the rental market. So"},{"t":1844,"text":"I guess I would just, we should just take some"},{"t":1848,"text":"of these numbers with a grain of salt. But I"},{"t":1849,"text":"would say, um, it was interesting to find out that,"},{"t":1852,"text":"you know, close to close to 70 percent of 10"},{"t":1859,"text":"years. Um, was sort of an interesting number that we"},{"t":1862,"text":"found and close to 30 percent of those were less"},{"t":1868,"text":"than one year. And so I think that was quite"},{"t":1871,"text":"interesting. And so even just the shift with the bylaw"},{"t":1873,"text":"to moving that all tenants, uh, even if there have"},{"t":1877,"text":"only been there for one year or protected under the"},{"t":1879,"text":"bylaw, I think is sort of highlighted the value of"},{"t":1883,"text":"that in terms of the shift from our policy to"},{"t":1885,"text":"the bylaw. Um, yeah, and then, uh, yeah, I think"},{"t":1889,"text":"beyond that, um, yeah, generally, I think what we're, what"},{"t":1892,"text":"we find is a high percentage we're in that five"},{"t":1896,"text":"years zone. And then I think, yeah, it was sort"},{"t":1899,"text":"of more in the around sort of 15 percent I"},{"t":1903,"text":"think were in that kind of tend to twenty. Thanks."},{"t":1908,"text":"And mirror, and this might be my last question. Um,"},{"t":1911,"text":"the recommendation has an overlap of 20, 30, and 40"},{"t":1914,"text":"years, like it goes from 20 to 30, 30 to"},{"t":1917,"text":"40 to 40 years is, um, is that deliberate or"},{"t":1921,"text":"is there a chance that that might cause confusion. Through"},{"t":1925,"text":"the mayor, uh, yeah, sorry for if that's, uh, unclear."},{"t":1928,"text":"I guess generally the way that the bylaw is, is"},{"t":1931,"text":"sort of structured is 20 or more years, 30 or"},{"t":1935,"text":"more years. Uh, so that was just sort of maybe,"},{"t":1939,"text":"uh, a bit of a oversight in terms of the"},{"t":1941,"text":"phrasing of the, of the motion. But I think we"},{"t":1943,"text":"would be looking to do consistent with how the bylaw"},{"t":1946,"text":"currently works. So it's, uh, if, um, over 30 years,"},{"t":1950,"text":"uh, then you would be in the 18 months rent"},{"t":1953,"text":"if you're over 40 years, you would be in the"},{"t":1955,"text":"24 month rent. Okay. I think that's probably important. Thanks,"},{"t":1958,"text":"Mayor. That's all the questions when the opportunity, I might"},{"t":1961,"text":"be jumping the gun. I would certainly like to move"},{"t":1962,"text":"the recommendation. Okay. Thank you. Connor Gardner. With questions. Thank"},{"t":1970,"text":"you. And thank you for the present. Lift up your"},{"t":1972,"text":"mic, please. Thank you. And thank you for the presentation."},{"t":1977,"text":"Um. And maybe I got to get down my computer"},{"t":1980,"text":"going here. Well, we've heard of, uh, okay. And I"},{"t":1986,"text":"appreciate the emphasis on the vulnerable tenants and expect that"},{"t":1989,"text":"many of the 30 to 40 year old tendencies. So"},{"t":1991,"text":"even though there may not be that many could well"},{"t":1994,"text":"be, uh, have a high proportion of vulnerable tenants. So"},{"t":1999,"text":"I quite appreciate the explanation you gave. And an example"},{"t":2002,"text":"of the family too. I quite appreciate that. That adds"},{"t":2005,"text":"real life. So while we've heard of evictions and renovations"},{"t":2009,"text":"and understand the rule of the city's relocation planner, I'm"},{"t":2012,"text":"still unsure as to the magnitude of the evictions. So"},{"t":2017,"text":"what you referred to as cases. So how many tenants"},{"t":2020,"text":"have been evicted that you know of in 2025 say"},{"t":2024,"text":"in 2026 to date. And do we have numbers of"},{"t":2028,"text":"that? How many perhaps were evicted and how many that"},{"t":2032,"text":"staff actually dealt with in the way of negotiations. Mr."},{"t":2036,"text":"Sauer, do you know that information. Through the mayor, I"},{"t":2041,"text":"mean, I don't, we don't really necessarily track that the"},{"t":2045,"text":"information that way. I guess I would say that when"},{"t":2048,"text":"I mentioned that there was, you know, roughly 500, uh,"},{"t":2052,"text":"households supported through the 10 assistants plan process over the"},{"t":2055,"text":"last eight or so years. Um, probably in most cases,"},{"t":2060,"text":"uh, I guess either the tenant chose to leave voluntarily"},{"t":2064,"text":"recognising that the redevelopment happening and they would be paid"},{"t":2067,"text":"out or they would wait until the eviction notice comes"},{"t":2070,"text":"forward. Um, before leaving, but they would be still be"},{"t":2075,"text":"paid out as per the tenant assistance plan, uh, kind"},{"t":2077,"text":"of package that's agreed upon, um, but we don't, uh,"},{"t":2081,"text":"track, uh, specifically the number of, of evictions, uh, at"},{"t":2086,"text":"this point in time. Um, it may be something that"},{"t":2089,"text":"you, we would be better directed to the province given"},{"t":2092,"text":"the fact that they, um, they're more involved with that"},{"t":2095,"text":"from like the RTA perspective. Councillor. Great. Thank you. And"},{"t":2098,"text":"the second part of the question is how many has"},{"t":2101,"text":"the relocation planner actually assisted? Cause I realised that's a"},{"t":2105,"text":"lot smaller number, especially what you just said. And that's"},{"t":2108,"text":"understandable given what you said that the majority are less"},{"t":2111,"text":"than five years. So I get that. So how many"},{"t":2113,"text":"has your, has your, has our relocation planner actually assisted"},{"t":2119,"text":"in a last year or this year date? Uh, through"},{"t":2122,"text":"the mayor, I don't, um, I'm not sure if we"},{"t":2124,"text":"have that number right away, but I would say that"},{"t":2128,"text":"essentially any time there is a, uh, tenant assistance plan"},{"t":2132,"text":"that's being prepared, which means, you know, essentially any time"},{"t":2136,"text":"the redevelopment where there is a rental unit there where"},{"t":2140,"text":"there's a tenant, it's being displaced. Our 10 assistance planner"},{"t":2144,"text":"is then sort of engaged at that part in the"},{"t":2146,"text":"land use, uh, sort of application process. And they need"},{"t":2150,"text":"to go through all the various steps of the bylaw."},{"t":2153,"text":"So, um, you know, it's our tenant planner is in"},{"t":2157,"text":"constant communication on a daily basis with tenants who are"},{"t":2160,"text":"impacted by redevelopment. And then there's also more general inquiries"},{"t":2164,"text":"around, uh, kind of tendency rights and things like that,"},{"t":2167,"text":"that are tenant planner helps to support through things like"},{"t":2170,"text":"the rental property standards of maintenance bylaw, uh, referrals to,"},{"t":2175,"text":"um, the RTA and RTP as well. Thank you. And"},{"t":2178,"text":"I understand that whole process and therefore the, shall we"},{"t":2181,"text":"say she monitors the system, which is excellent. But surely"},{"t":2185,"text":"someone must know how many people she's actually helped relocate."},{"t":2190,"text":"Do we, can you get that number for me in"},{"t":2192,"text":"the next little while? I don't mean today. Uh, through"},{"t":2195,"text":"the mayor, yeah, we can, uh, we can try to,"},{"t":2199,"text":"we usually do that more toward the end of the"},{"t":2201,"text":"year. And so we have kind of some numbers usually"},{"t":2204,"text":"on the number of supports that are included each year"},{"t":2206,"text":"within the housing strategy annual review. So we can pull"},{"t":2209,"text":"up the most recent numbers we have for that. Great."},{"t":2211,"text":"So you would have 2025 already. Okay. So yes, I"},{"t":2214,"text":"think that would help put the whole program into context."},{"t":2223,"text":"I think you may have explained this one already. Okay,"},{"t":2227,"text":"got that one. There's a huge jump from six months"},{"t":2229,"text":"compensation to 12 months compensation of the compensation. I don't"},{"t":2234,"text":"mean tendency. And so was there any consideration? I realised"},{"t":2237,"text":"the numbers may have been too small for other categories"},{"t":2241,"text":"of splitting such as nine months compensation for 20 to"},{"t":2244,"text":"25 years instead of the 10 year gap. Mr. Sauer."},{"t":2250,"text":"Through the mayor, um, I think we just recognising that"},{"t":2253,"text":"there's generally sort of a smaller number of these longer"},{"t":2257,"text":"term tenants. I think we tried to just maintain sort"},{"t":2259,"text":"of the larger categories, uh, for kind of simplicity of"},{"t":2263,"text":"the bylaw. Um, and, um, you know, the, yeah, through"},{"t":2270,"text":"the merit, I think if council would prefer other, uh,"},{"t":2274,"text":"their thresholds, uh, that could be directed. Okay. Thank you."},{"t":2278,"text":"It's all for now. Okay. Councillor Dell with questions. That's"},{"t":2281,"text":"right. Um, no, those are actually asked, those were my,"},{"t":2286,"text":"some of my questions. Um, I guess my question is"},{"t":2288,"text":"about other municipalities really quickly. So the tenant protection planner,"},{"t":2292,"text":"we have one of those. To other municipalities have this"},{"t":2295,"text":"service, an actual staff person that helps with the, um,"},{"t":2299,"text":"the process of moving out. Or is that only a"},{"t":2301,"text":"Victoria? Mr. Sour. Through the mayor, it's a great question."},{"t":2309,"text":"Uh, certainly I know within the City of Vancouver, they've"},{"t":2311,"text":"got a very robust sort of tenant support function. Um,"},{"t":2317,"text":"but within other municipalities, um, yeah, I don't, I don't"},{"t":2323,"text":"have that answer as a good question in terms of,"},{"t":2325,"text":"uh, whether there's a specific tenant planner or if that"},{"t":2329,"text":"role kind of, that this work falls within more of"},{"t":2332,"text":"a general sort of planning perspective. Um, I see our"},{"t":2336,"text":"tenant assistance planner is kind of chatting to messaging something"},{"t":2341,"text":"right now. So they may have some additional information I"},{"t":2343,"text":"can share if anything's provided. Councillor. Sure. Uh, through the"},{"t":2347,"text":"mayor continuing on other municipalities, one of the challenges we're"},{"t":2350,"text":"having, um, with homelessness is folks being evicted in other"},{"t":2353,"text":"municipalities in the region. There's this conception that people come"},{"t":2355,"text":"from around Canada where it's actually a lot of it's"},{"t":2358,"text":"from the CRD. There was a story the other day"},{"t":2360,"text":"leading to my question about, uh, online of, of, of"},{"t":2363,"text":"senior woman who got evicted in Oak Bay and was"},{"t":2365,"text":"living on Pandora. Do other municipalities in the CRD have"},{"t":2370,"text":"anything similar to this. I know you did a jurisdictional"},{"t":2373,"text":"research when you were looking at places like White Burnaby"},{"t":2376,"text":"and some of those bigger, bigger places. But why do"},{"t":2378,"text":"we see around the CRD particular with our neighbours and"},{"t":2381,"text":"Oak Bay and a squam malt and sandwich? Do they"},{"t":2383,"text":"have anything similar to this or is there big discrepancies"},{"t":2386,"text":"across the region? It's just sour. Yeah. I think certainly"},{"t":2390,"text":"I think the tenant protection work that the city has"},{"t":2393,"text":"done, uh, in terms of being a leader on it"},{"t":2395,"text":"has I think been influential and maybe inviting other municipalities"},{"t":2399,"text":"to the table. Um, so I think certainly Sanich and"},{"t":2402,"text":"a squam alt to my knowledge have generally kind of"},{"t":2407,"text":"tried to model their, um, their 10 assistants policies off"},{"t":2411,"text":"of the city's policy in some cases. Uh, and then"},{"t":2414,"text":"I think even Sanich, uh, they've brought forward a bylaw"},{"t":2417,"text":"protection bylaw that follows some of the similar elements to"},{"t":2420,"text":"us. But I would say ours is definitely much more,"},{"t":2423,"text":"much more robust. Um, and just got another message from,"},{"t":2428,"text":"um, from staff that sanitar don't have specific tensions planners."},{"t":2434,"text":"Burn to be a New West have more dedicated staff"},{"t":2437,"text":"as well as Vancouver. Thank you for that. Councillor Doe."},{"t":2440,"text":"Okay. Um, maybe my last question here. One of the"},{"t":2443,"text":"issues we always see, uh, perhaps the most famously with,"},{"t":2446,"text":"with cigarettes and getting people to stop smoking, leading to"},{"t":2449,"text":"a question is, um, it's increased a taxation on cigarettes."},{"t":2453,"text":"Tax a hell of them. So they're a hundred dollars"},{"t":2454,"text":"a pack of people stop smoking. And of course what"},{"t":2456,"text":"that does is just pushes, uh, supports illegal cigarettes. So"},{"t":2459,"text":"there's always this balance. And my question that I want"},{"t":2462,"text":"to ask is I've heard some stories about illegal evictions"},{"t":2465,"text":"in the city. So perhaps a new owner of a"},{"t":2467,"text":"property comes along and buys it and tells all the"},{"t":2469,"text":"renters. This is actually a real story that happened. Oh,"},{"t":2472,"text":"I'm going to renovate the whole place. You know, my"},{"t":2474,"text":"family's going to move in. We're going to do all"},{"t":2475,"text":"these big renovations. You might as well move out now."},{"t":2478,"text":"And so people willingly move out. They don't follow the"},{"t":2481,"text":"process. They don't go through it. And they move out"},{"t":2483,"text":"technically willingly outside of the legal contract. And then later,"},{"t":2487,"text":"you know, after the renovations, the price just goes way"},{"t":2489,"text":"up and they were duped. So I think it's a"},{"t":2492,"text":"balance of we're trying to set fairly strict rules, but"},{"t":2495,"text":"we're trying not to make them so strict where we're"},{"t":2497,"text":"pushing into like, you know, illegal, but quasi legal evictions."},{"t":2502,"text":"Are we still seeing examples of that? Or is that"},{"t":2503,"text":"something that's mostly just done through the residential tendency branch."},{"t":2507,"text":"Are you trying to balance those issues, I guess is"},{"t":2510,"text":"my question. Mr. Sauerd. Um, where, where there is, um,"},{"t":2517,"text":"land use applications coming in. And there's been mention of"},{"t":2523,"text":"the fact that, oh, we had, we had tenants, but"},{"t":2526,"text":"they're, they're not in the building anymore. Um, through our"},{"t":2529,"text":"processes, we do ask for proof of legal eviction six"},{"t":2532,"text":"months prior to the land use application. So just trying"},{"t":2534,"text":"to gauge and monitor, you know, our people kind of"},{"t":2537,"text":"following, um, sort of the proper processes for eviction. Um,"},{"t":2542,"text":"and I would say just generally this is part of"},{"t":2545,"text":"the part of the, I guess the importance of kind"},{"t":2548,"text":"of continuing to have that sort of act of, active"},{"t":2551,"text":"management, active monitoring of these bylaws and to sort of"},{"t":2554,"text":"watch what are the trends and how are the sort"},{"t":2558,"text":"of rental market kind of. Behaving, I guess, in terms"},{"t":2562,"text":"of like what are, what, what are maybe some of"},{"t":2564,"text":"the things that are happening where people are maybe trying"},{"t":2567,"text":"to find loopholes. So I think, yeah, I think it"},{"t":2569,"text":"certainly, it's something that we have observed. And I think"},{"t":2572,"text":"it reinforces really the importance of that education piece of"},{"t":2575,"text":"making sure tenants understand that they have certain, um, their,"},{"t":2580,"text":"they're entitled to certain things under the tenant protection, uh,"},{"t":2584,"text":"bylaw. And so if someone's saying we're going to be"},{"t":2586,"text":"redeveloping, you know, they have, they have the right to"},{"t":2589,"text":"some of these supports, even if they, you know, decide"},{"t":2593,"text":"to move at, you know, pretty early stage in terms"},{"t":2595,"text":"of the redevelopment. Um, so I think it's an ongoing"},{"t":2598,"text":"thing that we try to monitor and bow. Okay. My"},{"t":2602,"text":"very last question. We often hear about Burnaby folks. They"},{"t":2605,"text":"just do a Burnaby does implement the birdie style system."},{"t":2608,"text":"Burnaby just build a 64 story building. They're building 87"},{"t":2612,"text":"story building. I believe they have quite a few over"},{"t":2614,"text":"50 and a lot over 40. And so we're trying"},{"t":2617,"text":"to grapple with that folks who want very low density,"},{"t":2620,"text":"but they want the benefits to come with density. Can"},{"t":2624,"text":"you confirm like if we were approving denser buildings where"},{"t":2627,"text":"the developers are making a lot more money up at"},{"t":2629,"text":"the 40, 50, 60, 70 story buildings, does that provide"},{"t":2633,"text":"an opportunity to provide more funding for tenants? Like are"},{"t":2636,"text":"we trying to grapple with that balance of our approved"},{"t":2639,"text":"density, which is quite low. But the benefits that come"},{"t":2642,"text":"with it, or is this, are these kind of outside"},{"t":2644,"text":"of those density calculations. Mr. Sauert, I'm not sure that's"},{"t":2648,"text":"specifically related to what you're proposing, but you're of course"},{"t":2651,"text":"always welcome to venture your thoughts. Through the mayor, I"},{"t":2655,"text":"think, yeah, certainly in terms of when we did our"},{"t":2658,"text":"jurisdictional review and looked at Burnaby, I think, yeah, it's,"},{"t":2661,"text":"it's, it is a very different context. And I think"},{"t":2664,"text":"we, it's, it doesn't necessarily, they're the scale of development"},{"t":2671,"text":"is much different in terms of, um, these large scale"},{"t":2676,"text":"kind of grey field suburban mall redevelopments into like major,"},{"t":2680,"text":"you know, transit oriented development, uh, high density projects. And"},{"t":2684,"text":"so I think it's, it is sort of challenging to"},{"t":2686,"text":"compare kind of Apples and oranges and looking at what"},{"t":2689,"text":"is, you know, how does their tenant protection compared to"},{"t":2692,"text":"ours? And so I think that's why, um, you know,"},{"t":2695,"text":"we continue to monitor, we continue to walk, you know,"},{"t":2697,"text":"look at the sort of how it's impacting viability. And"},{"t":2700,"text":"I think we continue to feel like our, our 10"},{"t":2703,"text":"protection supports are in a good place. Okay. Thanks very"},{"t":2706,"text":"much for entertaining those questions. I appreciate that. Thank you."},{"t":2709,"text":"Thanks for lurting. Thanks and through you mayor. Um, Staff"},{"t":2716,"text":"have kind of touched on this, but I just wanted"},{"t":2718,"text":"to ask a question about the jump between five months"},{"t":2722,"text":"rent, um, for over nine to 20 years. Versus 12"},{"t":2726,"text":"months rent for 20 to 30 years. So you know"},{"t":2729,"text":"for, according to the letter of the law here, if"},{"t":2732,"text":"you were 19 years, you'd get five months rent. But"},{"t":2738,"text":"if you were 20 years, you'd get. 12 months rent."},{"t":2742,"text":"So in the comparison to other cities, North Vancouver does"},{"t":2749,"text":"an additional 25 dollars a month for each month beyond"},{"t":2752,"text":"five years. Now that doesn't add up to all that"},{"t":2755,"text":"much. Um, but what it made me start thinking is"},{"t":2759,"text":"why aren't we pro rating this? And was that a"},{"t":2762,"text":"conversation that was had with, um, the consultants or something"},{"t":2767,"text":"that, that staff of considered. Mr. Sauer. Uh, through the"},{"t":2772,"text":"mayor, I think, yeah, there's different ways that it could"},{"t":2776,"text":"be sort of adjusted and kind of adapted. I think,"},{"t":2782,"text":"um, I think generally what we've heard is, you know,"},{"t":2785,"text":"when we've met with taps, when we've met with impacted"},{"t":2789,"text":"tenants, uh, in the past, it seems as though people"},{"t":2792,"text":"feel the compensation is fair. And we do have through"},{"t":2795,"text":"the household needs assessment where we identify more vulnerable tenants"},{"t":2799,"text":"in that, you know, five to 10 years, five to"},{"t":2803,"text":"nine years or nine to 20 years. We do have"},{"t":2806,"text":"mechanisms to pursue additional support where we think there's really"},{"t":2810,"text":"a case to be made. And so I think we"},{"t":2814,"text":"feel that the bylaw still supports that where we identify"},{"t":2818,"text":"those sort of vulnerable households through that process. Um, but,"},{"t":2822,"text":"but continue to feel like this sort of strikes a"},{"t":2824,"text":"good balance. Yeah. Yeah. And it occurred to me that"},{"t":2828,"text":"also that creates some uncertainty too with, with the Proformous,"},{"t":2833,"text":"so was that a reason why that, um, wouldn't be"},{"t":2838,"text":"the most viable way forward. Mr. Serd? Through the mayor,"},{"t":2844,"text":"certainly in talking with our economic analysis consultant, you know,"},{"t":2848,"text":"they emphasized, um, where bylaw or where the tenant protection"},{"t":2854,"text":"sort of requirements introduce uncertainty or sort of ambiguity that"},{"t":2861,"text":"that is challenging, that makes it more challenging for the"},{"t":2863,"text":"developers to, you know, communicate what the economic impacts are"},{"t":2867,"text":"to the underwriters and in where there's uncertainty underwriters tend"},{"t":2871,"text":"to take the more conservative view. And so I think,"},{"t":2875,"text":"yeah, trying to have very clear one time, um, you"},{"t":2881,"text":"know, certain, uh, certain cost impacts our desirable. Okay. That"},{"t":2885,"text":"makes sense to me. And then just one more question"},{"t":2887,"text":"about the support mechanisms for vulnerable people that you mentioned,"},{"t":2893,"text":"like there might be some things sort of outside the"},{"t":2895,"text":"box, for lack of a better word that might help"},{"t":2897,"text":"some people. The tenant planner once told me that sometimes"},{"t":2902,"text":"they'll actually help people getting to say non - market"},{"t":2904,"text":"housing, like through BC housing or, or GVHS. Can you"},{"t":2908,"text":"just talk a little bit more about how that happens"},{"t":2912,"text":"and how often that happens? Um, I guess that would"},{"t":2917,"text":"really be the role of our tenant assistance planner. Um,"},{"t":2920,"text":"but I'm just curious about how often those opportunities are"},{"t":2926,"text":"offered to people. Mr. Seward. Through the mayor. Thanks for"},{"t":2930,"text":"the question. Uh, yeah, so certainly, um, when we identify,"},{"t":2937,"text":"um, vulnerable tenants or tenants who have sort of lower"},{"t":2942,"text":"incomes, um, are 10 and assistants planner often tries to"},{"t":2948,"text":"confirm as to whether, uh, those impact attendance have kind"},{"t":2953,"text":"of signed out to be on sort of like wait"},{"t":2956,"text":"lists for subsidized housing through PC housing. And then if"},{"t":2961,"text":"there is actually an eviction notice, um, there is opportunities"},{"t":2965,"text":"to sort of flag that to BC housing and that"},{"t":2968,"text":"sort of will prioritize them, uh, in some ways through"},{"t":2972,"text":"their kind of, uh, sort of selection process in terms"},{"t":2976,"text":"of, of tenants. Um, but also we've had good success"},{"t":2980,"text":"in terms of working, uh, also working directly with nonprofit"},{"t":2985,"text":"housing providers in the region. So for example, uh, there"},{"t":2988,"text":"was a redevelopment on Gourge Road East that had a"},{"t":2992,"text":"significant number of tenants that were being displaced through that"},{"t":2994,"text":"broader redevelopment, uh, and there was actually success working with"},{"t":2998,"text":"like Gorgeous society to find places in Qawanis, uh, to"},{"t":3002,"text":"find places for a number of those tenants and sort"},{"t":3004,"text":"of offering some of the more lower income tenants opportunities"},{"t":3008,"text":"within, uh, non - market housing, uh, has also been,"},{"t":3011,"text":"um, something that has been successful in the tenants. This"},{"t":3014,"text":"planner will try to help to liaise with, you know,"},{"t":3018,"text":"those social housing providers, even Ireland Health in some cases."},{"t":3023,"text":"Or if there's a 10 relocation coordinator that the developers"},{"t":3026,"text":"working with, they can also play a role in liaison"},{"t":3030,"text":"as well. So, uh, I wouldn't say it. It doesn't"},{"t":3032,"text":"happen every time, but where we identifie sort of those"},{"t":3035,"text":"lower income households where there's maybe a good, where they"},{"t":3040,"text":"meet the criteria more for social housing as opposed to"},{"t":3042,"text":"market housing. And I think that's, that's where we maybe"},{"t":3044,"text":"make more of an effort. Okay. Um, is there a"},{"t":3051,"text":"way to somehow include some of those like metrics or"},{"t":3058,"text":"even stories in the annual housing review. So Council and"},{"t":3061,"text":"the public has a way of hearing about this. Because"},{"t":3066,"text":"this is a part of the tenant assistance plan or"},{"t":3073,"text":"the bylaw that we don't really hear about very often."},{"t":3075,"text":"Is there, I mean, would I need to formalize that"},{"t":3078,"text":"or is that something we could do or is that"},{"t":3080,"text":"possible to do? Maybe that's where to start. Mr. Sored."},{"t":3084,"text":"Through the mayor, I think, yeah, I think it's, it"},{"t":3087,"text":"is something I think we could try to do a"},{"t":3088,"text":"better job of telling some of those stories as we"},{"t":3091,"text":"did today. I think we need to, we kind of"},{"t":3093,"text":"have to. Tread closely because there is also sort of"},{"t":3096,"text":"some privacy and sort of sensitivity around disclosing too much,"},{"t":3102,"text":"I guess in terms of the details. But, uh, I"},{"t":3106,"text":"think at a general level, we could probably do a"},{"t":3107,"text":"better, better job of telling those stories. Yeah, I just"},{"t":3110,"text":"think it's an important piece of the puzzle. Thanks, Mayor."},{"t":3112,"text":"Thank you very much. Council Caradona. Thanks very much and"},{"t":3118,"text":"through you. I wanted to ask two questions. A first"},{"t":3123,"text":"going back to the conversations we had, uh, during the"},{"t":3126,"text":"OCP debates, which is somehow almost a year ago already."},{"t":3130,"text":"A number of us mentioned, including myself that with the"},{"t":3133,"text":"blanket upzoning that we've done in the city, developers do"},{"t":3136,"text":"have more choice, quite a bit more choice. And I"},{"t":3139,"text":"think I talked about the difference between upset, or sorry,"},{"t":3142,"text":"redeveloping parking lot or a vacant home. Right? Where the"},{"t":3147,"text":"placement versus a situation where there's 20 or 30, 40,"},{"t":3151,"text":"10 inch. And, uh, and what the difference is between"},{"t":3154,"text":"those two options. Is part of the intention of this"},{"t":3157,"text":"work, if we can just be explicit about it, to"},{"t":3161,"text":"dissuade developers from taking on complex cases in which there"},{"t":3166,"text":"is a lot of displacement. Is this supposed to be"},{"t":3169,"text":"sending a kind of market signal that says, once you"},{"t":3172,"text":"look at the empty parking lot or the single family"},{"t":3174,"text":"home that's vacant and developed that rather than take on"},{"t":3177,"text":"the hassle and cost of displacing a bunch of people?"},{"t":3180,"text":"Is that part of the intent. Mr. Seward. Through the"},{"t":3184,"text":"mayor, um, thanks to the question. I think, you know,"},{"t":3188,"text":"certainly in our conversations with the urban development institute and"},{"t":3193,"text":"their, you know, they, they, they voiced their challenges, I"},{"t":3199,"text":"guess with the writer first refusal requirements of the bylaw."},{"t":3203,"text":"And in those conversations with them, you know, we highlighted"},{"t":3208,"text":"the point that you made that, you know, through our"},{"t":3212,"text":"recent updates to the OCP and our zoning modernization we've"},{"t":3215,"text":"created a lot more opportunities for them to redevelop, um,"},{"t":3219,"text":"and create, you know, multi, multi - unit residential buildings"},{"t":3223,"text":"without having to redevelop an existing apartment building. And so"},{"t":3227,"text":"I think that is a, was one of our considerations"},{"t":3230,"text":"of the OCP and zoning by a lot of process."},{"t":3233,"text":"And so I think our, our tenant protection by laws"},{"t":3235,"text":"were reinforces that, that, you know, certainly if we have"},{"t":3239,"text":"the option of seeing a redevelopment that can have less"},{"t":3243,"text":"displacement versus more displacement and our bylaw can kind of"},{"t":3247,"text":"complement that in some ways, I think that's positive, but"},{"t":3250,"text":"at the same time we recognise, you know, we still"},{"t":3253,"text":"need to continue to, we don't want to be creating"},{"t":3257,"text":"a barrier to all redevelopment per se as well. And"},{"t":3261,"text":"so it's, it's trying to find that balance. So it's"},{"t":3263,"text":"through the mayor. It's not meant to impede development though."},{"t":3269,"text":"Through the marriage, I wouldn't say it's not a meant"},{"t":3270,"text":"to impede development, but it's, it is, I think, acknowledging"},{"t":3273,"text":"that there is a, um, there is a, there's an"},{"t":3277,"text":"impact that the community, um. The impact of the community"},{"t":3284,"text":"where we see a lot of redevelopment of purpose built"},{"t":3287,"text":"rental buildings. And I think the bylaw is highlights the"},{"t":3292,"text":"challenges that that puts on sort of community and, and"},{"t":3296,"text":"tenants. And therefore has sort of a higher threshold for"},{"t":3299,"text":"those who are projects, I would say. Okay. Thanks, that's"},{"t":3302,"text":"fair. I just want a second question is about, uh,"},{"t":3304,"text":"write a first refusal. I want to just drill down"},{"t":3306,"text":"on a little bit. And I sent an email to"},{"t":3309,"text":"council a few months ago about this, about, um, the"},{"t":3312,"text":"writer fuse or freeze. Oh, as it exists over at"},{"t":3314,"text":"the CRHC and just wanted to talk about it for"},{"t":3317,"text":"a minute over at the CRGC, we do have a"},{"t":3319,"text":"very robust ride of first refusal program. It's obviously different"},{"t":3322,"text":"because it's dealing with non - market housing. But it's"},{"t":3325,"text":"very well used program. And the two most recent redevelopments"},{"t":3329,"text":"in Victoria are Michigan Square and Caledonia. And at Michigan"},{"t":3334,"text":"Square. 15 of the 37 families moved back into the"},{"t":3341,"text":"redeveloped Michigan square. The rest stayed in other CRHC buildings"},{"t":3345,"text":"or maybe moved on in life. And at Caledonia 15"},{"t":3347,"text":"of 18 families moved back in. So all the families"},{"t":3350,"text":"except for three. Even though they had to go somewhere"},{"t":3354,"text":"else for a couple of years, they ended up coming"},{"t":3356,"text":"back. In fact, I've had a chance to meet a"},{"t":3357,"text":"couple of them. They're back in the neighbourhood by Vikkai."},{"t":3360,"text":"So that's a pretty high rate of return. Are we"},{"t":3363,"text":"seeing those kind of rates at, do we have any"},{"t":3366,"text":"data on those rates in market housing? And maybe as"},{"t":3369,"text":"a follow - up question, is the expectation that these"},{"t":3373,"text":"tweaks, even though the development industry doesn't like it? Is"},{"t":3376,"text":"there an expectation of these tweaks would actually increase the,"},{"t":3379,"text":"I mean, it's a bit speculative. But what it, would"},{"t":3382,"text":"you, would you envision that this would increase the likelihood"},{"t":3384,"text":"that writers refusal is happening. And people are moving back"},{"t":3386,"text":"into their previous locations. Mr. Sauer? Through the mayor. Uh,"},{"t":3391,"text":"yeah, I think in terms of the data on Ray"},{"t":3393,"text":"first refusal, I think we continue to see a pretty"},{"t":3396,"text":"low, a very, very, very low uptake, to be frank."},{"t":3399,"text":"And I think part of that is that really even"},{"t":3402,"text":"some of the buildings that are recently completed are still"},{"t":3406,"text":"under the old policy where it was, where it was"},{"t":3409,"text":"only 10 percent below market. So I think, you know,"},{"t":3414,"text":"it's, it's a, it is challenging just given the sort"},{"t":3417,"text":"of lag between when, you know, when service, some of"},{"t":3421,"text":"the policy and bylaws come into place. And then the"},{"t":3424,"text":"time for our project to be approved and then constructed,"},{"t":3427,"text":"um, in terms of being able to see things play"},{"t":3429,"text":"out, um, so I think generally we have seen low"},{"t":3433,"text":"uptake. I think that is part of the challenge that"},{"t":3438,"text":"where, you know, where that writer first refusal is maybe"},{"t":3442,"text":"it's not as attractive for a household to return. Um,"},{"t":3447,"text":"in terms of having to go through the whole moving"},{"t":3449,"text":"process again, if they've found something in the intervening time,"},{"t":3454,"text":"um, so I think, you know, I think we're hopeful"},{"t":3457,"text":"that with the way that it's sort of enshrined through"},{"t":3463,"text":"the bylaw, um, and the bit more certainty around what"},{"t":3466,"text":"those rates are for tenants, um, that, uh, that perhaps"},{"t":3470,"text":"that would, uh, entice a couple more households, uh, when"},{"t":3474,"text":"we see projects, um, with your first refusal to return."},{"t":3477,"text":"So I think that's something we want to continue to,"},{"t":3480,"text":"to monitor and, and follow along. But, um, you're correct."},{"t":3484,"text":"We have, we've had very, very limited uptake on the"},{"t":3487,"text":"reverse refusal to date. Okay. Thanks. Thanks, Mayor. That's it."},{"t":3490,"text":"That's your Kim. Uh, thanks through the chair. Uh, in"},{"t":3498,"text":"the presentation, there was mention of a small percentage, uh,"},{"t":3505,"text":"I think it was viability of projects from the development"},{"t":3508,"text":"community. Can you quantify what is the small percentage. Mr."},{"t":3516,"text":"Sauer. Through the mayor in terms of, um, the costs"},{"t":3522,"text":"of the, the tenant protection requirements, um, so when you"},{"t":3527,"text":"look at the total project costs, um, you know, the"},{"t":3532,"text":"total capital costs associated with the cost of purchase the"},{"t":3535,"text":"land, the cost to construct the building, the soft costs"},{"t":3540,"text":"of going through the approval process and pain consultants. Generally,"},{"t":3544,"text":"when you're looking at, you know, uh, tenant, uh, tenant"},{"t":3548,"text":"assistance plan. In comparison to all those other really larger"},{"t":3556,"text":"items on a Proforma. The tenant, um, the 10 to"},{"t":3562,"text":"compensation package is remains a relatively small proportion of the"},{"t":3566,"text":"overall costs. Um, however, you know, it's. We are always"},{"t":3572,"text":"trying to be judicious, I guess whenever we're adding any"},{"t":3575,"text":"costs to, um, projects recognising that, you know, there's various"},{"t":3582,"text":"different policies and bylaws across the city that all have"},{"t":3586,"text":"cost impacts. And if everybody says their cost is nothing,"},{"t":3589,"text":"but everyone's increasing all the time can all add up"},{"t":3593,"text":"and results in more material impacts to viability. So it's"},{"t":3597,"text":"a, it's a, it's a balancing act, I think, that"},{"t":3599,"text":"we're constantly trying to play, if that helps. Are there"},{"t":3608,"text":"any other. Items that make up this performa among the"},{"t":3613,"text":"many that you've listed that the city could control or"},{"t":3617,"text":"influence in order to make. This small percentage more. Less"},{"t":3624,"text":"of a factor. Mr. Sard. Through the mayor, I think,"},{"t":3629,"text":"I think in some ways that's why local governments are"},{"t":3632,"text":"in a challenging spot right now is that, uh, especially"},{"t":3636,"text":"in cases where like the city Victoria where we've really"},{"t":3640,"text":"used a lot of the levers that we have available"},{"t":3642,"text":"to ourselves in terms of, you know, being the land"},{"t":3646,"text":"use authority. So making our, our zoning, making our policy"},{"t":3649,"text":"more permissive. We're improving the approval process, you know, stepping"},{"t":3655,"text":"aside in terms of things like public hearings, you know,"},{"t":3658,"text":"delegating applications to staff, all those things are really, you"},{"t":3662,"text":"know, those all have impacts in terms of reducing the"},{"t":3665,"text":"amount of time, providing more certainty, reducing risk, which are"},{"t":3669,"text":"all very, very valuable. But we've done a lot of"},{"t":3672,"text":"those here within the context of the City of Victoria."},{"t":3676,"text":"But in some ways the most challenging thing that a"},{"t":3678,"text":"lot of developers are facing is the sort of precipitous"},{"t":3681,"text":"rise of hard costs in terms of construction costs over"},{"t":3684,"text":"the last five years. And the City Victoria and local"},{"t":3687,"text":"governments across the country don't have really impact on that"},{"t":3691,"text":"kind of hard cost line item within the Proforma. And"},{"t":3694,"text":"so I think in some ways that is really the"},{"t":3697,"text":"challenge. And I think we've, we've done a lot in"},{"t":3700,"text":"terms of on the density side of things in terms"},{"t":3702,"text":"of providing zone, you know, density as of right that"},{"t":3707,"text":"we feel like really aligns with our growth management structure."},{"t":3710,"text":"You know, the opportunity certainly for rezonings in certain parts"},{"t":3713,"text":"of the city, um, uh, where it aligns with our"},{"t":3716,"text":"OCP and rezoning development policy. But I think, you know,"},{"t":3720,"text":"we're continuing to look at opportunities to, you know, I"},{"t":3723,"text":"think streamline and, and support development where it makes sense."},{"t":3727,"text":"Um, but I think we've really pulled a lot of"},{"t":3729,"text":"those levers through the most recent sort of OCP zoning"},{"t":3733,"text":"modernization workling. Is that why in your estimation Victoria's bylaw"},{"t":3740,"text":"is so leading compared to the other municipalities. Mr. Sard."},{"t":3745,"text":"Uh, through the mayor, I think, uh, the city's by"},{"t":3749,"text":"law, I think, is well placed because I think we've,"},{"t":3752,"text":"we were more early on some of the tennis citizens"},{"t":3754,"text":"plan. And so I think there's been opportunities for sort"},{"t":3758,"text":"of learning along the way, uh, and, um, because we"},{"t":3762,"text":"were also just an early community to enshrine in the"},{"t":3765,"text":"bylaw. I think even just by moving to a, uh,"},{"t":3769,"text":"to having a lot of these supports and protections required"},{"t":3772,"text":"via bylaw that also just I think does a lot"},{"t":3774,"text":"to strengthen the certain GOR for tenants. And I think"},{"t":3779,"text":"that's not to be underestimated. Um, there's reference frequently to"},{"t":3786,"text":"the current challenging market conditions for the cost of construction."},{"t":3790,"text":"And I don't deny that we often talk about the"},{"t":3793,"text":"municipal price index over the CPI, for example. So, um."},{"t":3798,"text":"But given that I'm led to understand that these new,"},{"t":3803,"text":"these market conditions are kind of reflecting what's happening in"},{"t":3807,"text":"the world and have not always been this high. What"},{"t":3811,"text":"do you anticipate if and when these costs go down."},{"t":3817,"text":"Mr. Sorret, that is indeed a speculative question, but of"},{"t":3820,"text":"course you're always welcome to offer your thoughts. Yeah, through"},{"t":3822,"text":"the mayor. I would just say, you know, our intent"},{"t":3824,"text":"is to really continue to monitor. And if things improve"},{"t":3828,"text":"in terms of the development climate, I think we would"},{"t":3830,"text":"always continue to look at, you know, fine tuning some"},{"t":3834,"text":"of our, um, some of our supports with whether it"},{"t":3836,"text":"be tenants or looking at, you know, other, other things"},{"t":3838,"text":"that, um, are important for the city. So it's, I"},{"t":3841,"text":"think it's just an act of monitoring process. And the"},{"t":3844,"text":"bylaw is still relatively recent and it's adoption. Um, and"},{"t":3848,"text":"we see, uh, a lot of good signals that the"},{"t":3852,"text":"bylaw is still continuing to sort of meet the broader"},{"t":3856,"text":"goals and objectives around supporting tenants. But, uh, it's critical"},{"t":3859,"text":"for all of our policies and biologists to continue to"},{"t":3863,"text":"be sort of actively monitored. My next series of questions"},{"t":3867,"text":"is more about, uh, in the theme of pro rating"},{"t":3870,"text":"things, um, has there been discussion about right of first"},{"t":3875,"text":"refusal for perhaps a handful of units in a development."},{"t":3880,"text":"I'm thinking specifically to give context with what's inspired my"},{"t":3884,"text":"question is mixed income communities. So could we have had"},{"t":3889,"text":"below market write a first refusal with perhaps higher cost"},{"t":3894,"text":"units in the same project. That would have made that"},{"t":3898,"text":"viable. Mr. Sauerd through the mayor, I think in some"},{"t":3902,"text":"ways that is part of the intent of the revitalization"},{"t":3906,"text":"tax exemption. So, uh, I think part of the thought"},{"t":3908,"text":"is, is that where the redevelopment, a rental redevelopment and"},{"t":3912,"text":"they're developing maybe a new apartment building, uh, that would"},{"t":3915,"text":"be purpose built rental, um, part of the thought is"},{"t":3917,"text":"that if there's 10 percent of those units that are"},{"t":3920,"text":"secured as rental for more median incomes through the revitalization"},{"t":3924,"text":"tax exemption, that those 10 percent of units could be"},{"t":3927,"text":"offered to some of those displaced tenants. So you get,"},{"t":3931,"text":"um, maybe a level of affordability that goes beyond that,"},{"t":3935,"text":"um, that twenty percent below market. So I think that's"},{"t":3938,"text":"kind of how we've been trying to create a pathway,"},{"t":3941,"text":"I guess, for, um, for developers who are maybe looking"},{"t":3945,"text":"to, yeah, to, to go beyond, I guess in terms"},{"t":3949,"text":"of creating a pathway, I guess for more affordability for"},{"t":3953,"text":"those rifles refusing units. Do you think these developers know"},{"t":3957,"text":"this explicit intention. Mr. Sauer. Through the mirror, it is"},{"t":3965,"text":"spelled out in the bylaw and the policy, but, um,"},{"t":3968,"text":"it is perhaps something we could do a better job"},{"t":3970,"text":"of communicating through the rules process. It's a second time"},{"t":3973,"text":"I've heard that line today. We could do a better"},{"t":3976,"text":"job of communicating. So, um, my next question about the"},{"t":3979,"text":"pro rating theme is, um, it referencing a question my"},{"t":3984,"text":"colleague asked earlier about pro rating, uh, the amount of"},{"t":3987,"text":"time of a tendency into, uh, the compensation. And then"},{"t":3994,"text":"the response was, uh. Made me question, was this even"},{"t":3999,"text":"offered as an option or an item of discussion during"},{"t":4003,"text":"your consultations, pro rating. Mr. Sir compensations. Through the"},{"t":4013,"text":"mirror. You know, I would have to check in with"},{"t":4017,"text":"some of our staff around exactly how we, how the"},{"t":4022,"text":"conversation was framed where we talked about, talked with tenants"},{"t":4025,"text":"around kind of the compensation, but, um, my understanding is"},{"t":4029,"text":"that the general sort of takeaways from those discussions that"},{"t":4032,"text":"we had with impacted with tenants who had participated and"},{"t":4035,"text":"had been, you know, subject to a past tenance plan"},{"t":4038,"text":"is that, um, generally they felt like the level of"},{"t":4041,"text":"compensation they were to was fair. They did highlight that"},{"t":4043,"text":"the moving cost, um, sort of support was a bit"},{"t":4046,"text":"low and that I was an area that they thought"},{"t":4048,"text":"maybe we could do a better job of following. Cause"},{"t":4050,"text":"I think some of that had sort of fallen, um,"},{"t":4054,"text":"had not been kept keeping up with inflation, I would"},{"t":4056,"text":"say. Can you re - answer that question, but from"},{"t":4059,"text":"the perspective of consultation with the development community. Mr. Sard."},{"t":4074,"text":"Through the mayor, um, yeah, I think. The question around"},{"t":4080,"text":"the sort of pro rating, I think it's, I guess"},{"t":4082,"text":"also just generally we've been trying to create sort of"},{"t":4085,"text":"a, uh, the, the bylaw that has more of a"},{"t":4089,"text":"simple approach for sort of administrating and implementing and just"},{"t":4093,"text":"providing kind of more clarity, I guess, in certain people"},{"t":4096,"text":"for both kind of tenants and developers. Um, but yeah,"},{"t":4101,"text":"I think, um, yeah, more, more conversation, I guess could"},{"t":4107,"text":"be, could be included in the future for sure around,"},{"t":4110,"text":"um, alternative ways for compensation. But I think at this"},{"t":4112,"text":"point in time, given the fact that the bylaw is"},{"t":4115,"text":"so recently adopted, I think we've looked to try to"},{"t":4117,"text":"maintain the more the general structure as it currently stands."},{"t":4122,"text":"What do you need from us as counsel in terms"},{"t":4126,"text":"of direction to make sure that that conversation is revisited"},{"t":4129,"text":"in the future when the bylaw is sloped again? So,"},{"t":4135,"text":"um, through the mayor, I think. We, I don't, I"},{"t":4138,"text":"don't know if we need specific direction on that. I"},{"t":4143,"text":"mean, I think we have, we have the commitment to"},{"t":4147,"text":"sort of maintain sort of active, active. Monitoring and adaptive"},{"t":4152,"text":"management of all of our bylaws as part of our"},{"t":4155,"text":"OCP kind of process and housing strategy sort of process."},{"t":4159,"text":"And so, um, I think, I think it will just"},{"t":4163,"text":"be part of that. Um, ongoing work where we, we"},{"t":4168,"text":"kind of continuing to review, um, our bylaws and our"},{"t":4172,"text":"policies and to make sure they're continuing to support our"},{"t":4175,"text":"broader goals. And I think, yeah, I guess, um, yeah,"},{"t":4180,"text":"I think I would, that's what I would say at"},{"t":4181,"text":"this point in time. Okay. Um, I'm going to reframe"},{"t":4185,"text":"that question. What assurances can staff offer counsel that this"},{"t":4191,"text":"will be revisited in the future, particularly pro rating compensation"},{"t":4196,"text":"in discussions with the development community. Mr. Sauer."},{"t":4223,"text":"The mayor, I think, you know, certainly Council should Council"},{"t":4226,"text":"wish to provide, um, specific direction around things for staff"},{"t":4232,"text":"to consider as part of any future monitoring or updates"},{"t":4235,"text":"of the bylaw. I think that's, uh, that certainly is"},{"t":4238,"text":"always, uh, always welcomed and always an option for, for"},{"t":4241,"text":"council, for marrying council. Um, that being said, I also"},{"t":4245,"text":"think it's worth highlighting as we've described through the presentation"},{"t":4249,"text":"that, you know, these compensation amounts that are on the"},{"t":4253,"text":"screen in front of you right now are the sort"},{"t":4256,"text":"of minimum requirements of the bylaw and that the intent"},{"t":4259,"text":"of having the bylaws structured the way it is and"},{"t":4262,"text":"the fact that we have enshrined within the bylaw the"},{"t":4265,"text":"opportunity for the director to request additional support where there's"},{"t":4269,"text":"vulnerable tenants that are identified through that household needs assessment."},{"t":4273,"text":"I think that's something we continue to use as a,"},{"t":4275,"text":"as a, as a powerful tool to advocate for more"},{"t":4278,"text":"vulnerable tenants. But yeah, certainly would welcome any additional direction"},{"t":4282,"text":"for future efforts when we do, uh, updates in the"},{"t":4286,"text":"future and continue to monitor in the future. Okay. Thanks."},{"t":4289,"text":"Last question technicality. If you look at, uh, one AI,"},{"t":4296,"text":"triple I goes 2030, 3040, 40 plus. Shouldn't it be"},{"t":4301,"text":"more like 2029, 30, 39, 40. I believe that question"},{"t":4310,"text":"was, um, asked in a different way earlier. But yeah,"},{"t":4313,"text":"through the mayor, I think, yeah, it sort of, it's"},{"t":4315,"text":"sort of more, I guess, reflex kind of the way"},{"t":4318,"text":"the current bylaw is written, but there's maybe a couple"},{"t":4322,"text":"of words missing words. You know, 20 or more years"},{"t":4327,"text":"into 30 years to 30 or more years to 40"},{"t":4330,"text":"years, um, and so certainly when we should counsel direct"},{"t":4334,"text":"us to move forward when we bring forth the bile"},{"t":4337,"text":"or readings, we can, we can kind of clarify that"},{"t":4339,"text":"at that point in time. But it would be looking"},{"t":4341,"text":"to do the update and consistently in the same way"},{"t":4345,"text":"it's done in the current pylon terms of the, you"},{"t":4349,"text":"know, in an above 28 years would be in the"},{"t":4351,"text":"20 to 30 year group and above 30 years would"},{"t":4354,"text":"be in the 30 to 40 year group. Okay. Um,"},{"t":4357,"text":"thank you for tackling these questions. Appreciate it Councillor Thompson."},{"t":4362,"text":"With questions. Thanks Mayor and through you, thank you very"},{"t":4367,"text":"much for the report and the work. Um, I just"},{"t":4370,"text":"wanted to ask about the moving expenses in appendix A."},{"t":4379,"text":"Uh, in the farthest right column, it has the current"},{"t":4383,"text":"bylaw, which is, um, professional movers paid by the developers"},{"t":4389,"text":"or, um, and then. I think comparing that to the"},{"t":4395,"text":"report, the report and the recommendations doesn't mention the developer."},{"t":4400,"text":"Option, but I assume that all this, um, amendment would"},{"t":4405,"text":"just change the numbers and we would still have that"},{"t":4408,"text":"option of developer pay or this much money. Is that"},{"t":4412,"text":"correct? Mr. Seward? Through the mayor, yeah, that's correct. We"},{"t":4415,"text":"would still maintain that option if the developer wants to"},{"t":4418,"text":"arrange for it and pay for themselves. They can. But"},{"t":4421,"text":"if they're leaving it to the tenant to do, then"},{"t":4424,"text":"that we'd be updating the sort of the fixed rates,"},{"t":4426,"text":"I guess. Okay. Thanks. And then also in attachment A,"},{"t":4431,"text":"uh, I noticed that, um, what we're contemplating here in"},{"t":4436,"text":"terms of moving expenses, uh, would put us in sort"},{"t":4439,"text":"of the lead position. I think with the exception of"},{"t":4443,"text":"a part of what sandwiches doing, but not all of"},{"t":4446,"text":"what Snach is doing, we could presumably tweak the rates"},{"t":4451,"text":"for studio two and three bedroom. Would matching sandwiches amounts"},{"t":4458,"text":"for moving expenses. Um, be a significant factor in making"},{"t":4463,"text":"it more expensive or difficult to build housing. Mr. Sarr."},{"t":4473,"text":"And through the mayor. Considering that you'd be going from"},{"t":4479,"text":"1500 to E5 or two bedrooms. Yeah."},{"t":4492,"text":"In isolation, probably no. Okay. I guess because these are"},{"t":4495,"text":"one time expenses, right? Instead of, you know, paying it"},{"t":4499,"text":"monthly. Okay. Um, I may have an amendment then. Thanks."},{"t":4503,"text":"I think all my colleagues have asked all of my"},{"t":4505,"text":"other questions. Thanks, Mayor. Thank you very much. And whilst"},{"t":4509,"text":"with any final questions. I suspect that they're going to"},{"t":4513,"text":"be quite a few comments about this. And so I'm"},{"t":4516,"text":"going to suggest that we take a break right now"},{"t":4518,"text":"because we have been sitting for almost an hour and"},{"t":4520,"text":"20 minutes. And then we'll come back. We'll move for"},{"t":4524,"text":"Councillor Hammond to move it. Mullicore secondary. And then we'll"},{"t":4526,"text":"have our comments at that point. So let's come back"},{"t":4529,"text":"at 10. 3."},{"t":4540,"text":"Good morning and welcome back. Councillor Del just had to"},{"t":4544,"text":"take a call so he will be rejoining us shortly."},{"t":4547,"text":"Just before we go to the mover of this would"},{"t":4550,"text":"be Councillor Hemmend I actually realised that I did have"},{"t":4551,"text":"one question that didn't get asked And it's actually about"},{"t":4554,"text":"the report and I was curious given the now routine"},{"t":4559,"text":"consideration of the impact on or the impact by the"},{"t":4564,"text":"community safety well being planned and almost all of our"},{"t":4566,"text":"policy development and Programs I'm curious why there isn't a"},{"t":4570,"text":"reference in the report to the Assessment, I guess of"},{"t":4576,"text":"the community safety well - being impacts of these changes"},{"t":4579,"text":"and I'll tell you why It seems to me that"},{"t":4582,"text":"we're talking about housing certainty and compensation for folks who"},{"t":4585,"text":"are evicted or remote potentially not when they plan to"},{"t":4588,"text":"be. And that to me speaks very specifically to life"},{"t":4592,"text":"safety quality of life safety and both of those things"},{"t":4596,"text":"are actually Protective elements they're called in the committee safety"},{"t":4602,"text":"mobile plan are quite crucial to the plan So I"},{"t":4604,"text":"didn't see a section which there is now often in"},{"t":4608,"text":"almost all of our reports that addresses that nor did"},{"t":4610,"text":"I see a specific reference to the impact of these"},{"t":4613,"text":"changes Which would be positive, I would have suggested on"},{"t":4617,"text":"community safety and well - being and I'm wondering why"},{"t":4618,"text":"that is. Through the mayor that's an oversight by staff"},{"t":4625,"text":"and certainly your correct It's generally something we try to"},{"t":4629,"text":"include as part of the The updated template for council"},{"t":4633,"text":"reports and so that's that's an error on the part"},{"t":4635,"text":"of the housing team to not include that because you're"},{"t":4638,"text":"absolutely correct that Uh, that there's certainly a connection around"},{"t":4642,"text":"the role the tenant protection bylaw plays and trying to"},{"t":4646,"text":"reduce Just you know mitigate the impacts of displacement and"},{"t":4650,"text":"we certainly know eviction can be sort of a. There's"},{"t":4654,"text":"a relationship between eviction and potential, you know. Housing precarity"},{"t":4658,"text":"and homelessness prevention and things like that So I certainly"},{"t":4661,"text":"would see this has been reinforcing some of the goals"},{"t":4666,"text":"and objectives around really Improving kind of housing security and"},{"t":4672,"text":"You know helping to you know just generally mitigate Impacts"},{"t":4677,"text":"around displacement and and that role and that plays in"},{"t":4681,"text":"homeless prevention Yes, thank you for that. Yeah, I agree"},{"t":4683,"text":"and so I would hope that that will be a"},{"t":4685,"text":"consideration in future comments analysis and reports With that then"},{"t":4689,"text":"let's go to Councillor Helm and indicate that he wanted"},{"t":4691,"text":"to move the staff recommendations Councillor Gordon wants second Councillor"},{"t":4694,"text":"Hammond over you. Thanks Mayor prior to me moving to"},{"t":4701,"text":"Victoria in Vancouver. I was involved in it with a"},{"t":4703,"text":"group called Renters at Risk and we were supporting tenants"},{"t":4706,"text":"who were being renovated as a matter of fact even"},{"t":4709,"text":"helping them with legal challenges when they were being renovated"},{"t":4712,"text":"Luckily John Horgan's government made important changes that substantially reduced"},{"t":4716,"text":"had renovations that were legal at the time but never"},{"t":4719,"text":"should have been tenants pay the mortgage expenses and profits"},{"t":4722,"text":"over time and for real estate investment trust it pays"},{"t":4725,"text":"handsome dividends for the shareholders I'm a landlord myself so"},{"t":4729,"text":"I know who pays these expenses and I know the"},{"t":4731,"text":"value of tenants and the importance of giving them a"},{"t":4734,"text":"feeling of security that they won't be evicted on a"},{"t":4737,"text":"whim So when tenants are evicted for redevelopment I want"},{"t":4740,"text":"to ensure we give tenants proper compensation. And knowing that"},{"t":4744,"text":"staff wrote that one - time conversation will have quote"},{"t":4747,"text":"limited impact on project viability I'd like to add some"},{"t":4750,"text":"increased compensation in that long gap of over 10 years."},{"t":4755,"text":"I'd like us to be judicious when it comes to"},{"t":4757,"text":"looking after the 60. 5 percent of Victoria households who"},{"t":4761,"text":"rent In May 2025 my Council Member Motion was to"},{"t":4765,"text":"give one month for every year of tenancy starting at"},{"t":4769,"text":"two months and going up to a maximum of 18"},{"t":4770,"text":"months What I liked about that and I guess that"},{"t":4773,"text":"perhaps is the idea pro rating I Liked about that"},{"t":4775,"text":"idea is that there aren't these big leaps However that"},{"t":4778,"text":"wasn't supported by Council to be asked for staff to"},{"t":4782,"text":"look into hence We have moved on and received this"},{"t":4785,"text":"report which I'm pleased to see give substantial more compensation"},{"t":4789,"text":"substantially more compensation for longer term tendencies With these recommendations"},{"t":4793,"text":"the unfortunate situation where a tenant who rents for 19"},{"t":4797,"text":"years and 10 months will be getting the same five"},{"t":4799,"text":"months compensation as the person who rents for 10 years"},{"t":4802,"text":"Therefore I think it makes sense to give more compensation"},{"t":4805,"text":"for people in this 10 - year period and even"},{"t":4808,"text":"one below that. Therefore I've given amendment or suggestions to"},{"t":4814,"text":"legislative services and it's not as neat as all this"},{"t":4818,"text":"But I wonder if you can pull that up. So"},{"t":4822,"text":"you're proposing an amendment Council yes Oh, sorry yes an"},{"t":4824,"text":"amendment, yeah. Okay let's just wait for it to come"},{"t":4828,"text":"up. Alright number four it says strike on my email"},{"t":4836,"text":"I wasn't able to find the striking thing Um. So"},{"t":4840,"text":"hang on before you start motivating Let's just leave it"},{"t":4842,"text":"for people to read for a minute. Then I will"},{"t":4844,"text":"look for a seconder and then you are welcome to"},{"t":4847,"text":"motivate I'll second it. Just hang on a second. Let's"},{"t":4853,"text":"give Staff a chance to catch up here. So you're"},{"t":4860,"text":"not changing the moving compensation, just the, um... Compensation based"},{"t":4865,"text":"on years of tenancy Okay, just a sec. And also"},{"t":4871,"text":"taking care of a little bit of that thing of"},{"t":4872,"text":"the 20 to 30 and 30 to 40."},{"t":4894,"text":"So you've essentially broken it into 5 year blocks after"},{"t":4897,"text":"year 1. Again I was trying to send it over"},{"t":4904,"text":"and read those parts It's really like 3 where you"},{"t":4907,"text":"strike it out and then 5, 6, and 9. The"},{"t":4909,"text":"other ones for 7 and 8 again is just strictly"},{"t":4914,"text":"so there's less than 30 So it doesn't... You don't"},{"t":4917,"text":"overlap with the 20 years and 30 years and 40"},{"t":4920,"text":"years. So what you have is struck through under what's"},{"t":4924,"text":"currently the new number 3. You intend for that to"},{"t":4927,"text":"be removed in its entirety. Um. That would make sense"},{"t":4932,"text":"Yes, yep That's right And the other of the one"},{"t":4936,"text":"and two For example Mayor really is already in there"},{"t":4939,"text":"That's that doesn't change. But it's just to show it"},{"t":4942,"text":"off to clarify it So it's only one piece. Just"},{"t":4945,"text":"before I go for a seconder I'm just going to"},{"t":4948,"text":"ask Staff if this is clear. They understand what this"},{"t":4952,"text":"is doing Just before we move on I want to"},{"t":4954,"text":"make sure that it is clear. It seems clear in"},{"t":4962,"text":"essence It looks to me as if it's just being"},{"t":4963,"text":"broken into five - year blocks as opposed to 10"},{"t":4966,"text":"with different compensation levels. Mr. Sauered are you clear on"},{"t":4971,"text":"what this is proposing Yeah I believe so Yeah, it"},{"t":4975,"text":"was just confusing at first Because one and two were"},{"t":4978,"text":"already what the bylaws said Correct. Would it be more"},{"t":4981,"text":"clear for you since went into our simply repeating existing"},{"t":4984,"text":"policy that just be deleted. It's not really part of"},{"t":4988,"text":"what the staff report is proposing. Yeah that may be"},{"t":4992,"text":"helpful. Council for Hemin Are you okay with it? Yes"},{"t":4996,"text":"And as Mary... Yeah, sorry It was more instructive on"},{"t":4998,"text":"this and not as technical So that makes complete sense"},{"t":5000,"text":"Take that out. And actually. So that would make Mr."},{"t":5008,"text":"Sauer That makes number the current or the proposed number"},{"t":5011,"text":"one Strike through that's not necessary Is it. Because. Already"},{"t":5018,"text":"part of policy Is that not? Because I believe what"},{"t":5023,"text":"Councillor Hammond is trying to do is break it for"},{"t":5025,"text":"into the 5 - 9. Can to 14 Yes 1A1"},{"t":5031,"text":"Is already in the current bylaw Yeah that's what I"},{"t":5034,"text":"thought So you could in fact remove that as well."},{"t":5037,"text":"Alright so let's take out the current number one that"},{"t":5039,"text":"struck through there. Because we're really just trying to replace"},{"t":5042,"text":"what the staff are proposing now. So I think this"},{"t":5045,"text":"is actually more clear of what I understand you're trying"},{"t":5048,"text":"to attempt Yes Mayor COUR Okay So with that then"},{"t":5052,"text":"that seems to be I believe Councillor Hammond that's your"},{"t":5055,"text":"intention Yes So I heard Councillor Gardner wished his second"},{"t":5058,"text":"the amendment So Councillor Hammond just on your amendment. Thanks."},{"t":5065,"text":"Thanks Mayor I don't mind saying that Um... I thought"},{"t":5068,"text":"about at the higher end of even making more divisions"},{"t":5071,"text":"And I thought I really I really My desire is"},{"t":5074,"text":"to go with something that might be palatable to the"},{"t":5077,"text":"majority of council. And because the recommendation is to be"},{"t":5081,"text":"more generous for people Uh... 20 years and beyond Um..."},{"t":5086,"text":"I thought I would leave that alone Even though I"},{"t":5088,"text":"went through an iteration of doing five - year increments"},{"t":5091,"text":"on that It's just I find that it's a big"},{"t":5097,"text":"gap. For the period of the 10 years to 19"},{"t":5106,"text":"years almost 20 years And that's where I threw that"},{"t":5110,"text":"in also giving more compensation Uh... To the five months"},{"t":5114,"text":"for the five years up to nine years So that"},{"t":5116,"text":"would be in addition as well Um... You know When"},{"t":5120,"text":"I hear anything around the table about Other councillors at"},{"t":5123,"text":"least asking the questions about more compensation or structuring it"},{"t":5128,"text":"even with... sort of more periods of let's say another"},{"t":5133,"text":"five years of the 2034 I you know I'd be"},{"t":5136,"text":"supporting that But at the moment I'm just looking at"},{"t":5138,"text":"this gap. I also wanted the reasons why I want"},{"t":5141,"text":"to make sure that this proper compensation here is because"},{"t":5144,"text":"we did hear from staff. Uh... Just now... That... There"},{"t":5149,"text":"aren't that many people who are in the 20 years"},{"t":5152,"text":"and higher And therefore it's not going to be that"},{"t":5156,"text":"much And so it still is very very important for"},{"t":5160,"text":"people that when they are moved out of their When"},{"t":5165,"text":"they're moved out of their evicted from their homes That"},{"t":5168,"text":"they at least be given better compensation So I'm just"},{"t":5171,"text":"adding to that Um... The other thing is When it"},{"t":5174,"text":"was brought up about through the CRD housing Those people"},{"t":5179,"text":"left. The reason why you'd have more people going back"},{"t":5181,"text":"is those people left very very affordable Unless I'm wrong"},{"t":5185,"text":"very very affordable. And they went back into very very"},{"t":5188,"text":"affordable. Whereas the difference with this is that why most"},{"t":5192,"text":"people wouldn't take it up I can appreciate it the"},{"t":5194,"text":"Reddit first refusal Is because it's very disruptive to move"},{"t":5198,"text":"as we know And so when you're only going back"},{"t":5200,"text":"as a possible 20 percent below market for many people"},{"t":5204,"text":"that is still more than they were paying originally And"},{"t":5208,"text":"it's just not worth it for people to do that"},{"t":5209,"text":"So at the very least dealing with the reality of"},{"t":5212,"text":"most people are not going to take Read of 1st"},{"t":5215,"text":"refusal Let's at least give them proper compensation. Thank you"},{"t":5219,"text":"just before I go to Council Gardner In essence if"},{"t":5221,"text":"I read this correctly. Uh... 1 sub A sub 1"},{"t":5225,"text":"2 and 3 are changing content. 1 sub A sub"},{"t":5229,"text":"4 5 and 6 are simply clarifying languages several people"},{"t":5232,"text":"have pointed out during the conversation For just to be"},{"t":5236,"text":"clear that that's what you're looking at Yes And Mayor"},{"t":5239,"text":"also I don't mind saying that I decided to be"},{"t":5241,"text":"a little bit more generous for them is saying that"},{"t":5245,"text":"it's less than 30 years and then Yeah so that"},{"t":5247,"text":"they would be in there So once you get to"},{"t":5248,"text":"30 you get more Yeah for sure Councillor Gardner on"},{"t":5251,"text":"the amendment Thank you and when we gave our questions"},{"t":5256,"text":"That's one of the things I was looking at too"},{"t":5258,"text":"was actually the split sometimes in the five years And"},{"t":5261,"text":"I quite appreciate what Staffa said is that most of"},{"t":5264,"text":"the Most of the people 70 percent are in shorter"},{"t":5268,"text":"term They aren't up there at 30 or 40 years"},{"t":5271,"text":"And even with this motion Which I quite appreciate It"},{"t":5276,"text":"would certainly be better if we actually have the data"},{"t":5278,"text":"of the impacts of what is happening out there And"},{"t":5281,"text":"uh... I know that's what I ask for and that"},{"t":5283,"text":"Staff will get me that number Uh those numbers And"},{"t":5286,"text":"uh But those numbers really we should need for all"},{"t":5288,"text":"of this But we don't want to go revisit this"},{"t":5290,"text":"every few months So I support this But I also"},{"t":5294,"text":"emphasize that I'd like to see the data So we"},{"t":5296,"text":"know how much of an issue it actually is Thank"},{"t":5299,"text":"you Thank you very much Anyone else on the amendment"},{"t":5302,"text":"Councillor Kim. Um Through the chair Thanks Just a question"},{"t":5309,"text":"to the mover if they're open to answering is Why"},{"t":5315,"text":"five months rent for five to nine years And then"},{"t":5317,"text":"the next one is six months rent So the differentials"},{"t":5320,"text":"one month And then the next level up is six"},{"t":5322,"text":"to nine Differential of three months That's for him and"},{"t":5325,"text":"your thoughts. Yeah It's actually the bigger deal for me"},{"t":5329,"text":"was to break up that, um, uh, the 10 -"},{"t":5333,"text":"year period of 10 years to uh... 10 years to"},{"t":5336,"text":"20 years Or let's see Yeah, 10 years to 19"},{"t":5341,"text":"years and 11 months And that was the real desire"},{"t":5345,"text":"And then I thought people can probably use more compensation"},{"t":5350,"text":"Um... Years to 14 years, or sorry, from the five"},{"t":5354,"text":"years to nine years as well. Okay, thanks. And just"},{"t":5361,"text":"a very small semantic thing. Do we want to say."},{"t":5367,"text":"Fewer or lesser use the chromatic? Let's not get bogged"},{"t":5372,"text":"down in Yes I'm just raising that you're correct But"},{"t":5375,"text":"I think it's fine the way it is. Anyone else"},{"t":5378,"text":"on the amendment Councillor Loude Through you may just a"},{"t":5384,"text":"quick question Um How do you. Probably need time to"},{"t":5391,"text":"figure this out But how will this affect performance? Can"},{"t":5395,"text":"this be something that... Um... Could cause problems in terms"},{"t":5402,"text":"of lenders Um... Ability to support the project. Mr. Sarah"},{"t":5410,"text":"Do you have any initial thoughts on the impact of"},{"t":5411,"text":"this. Through the mayor Um it is generally clear in"},{"t":5418,"text":"the sense that it's a one - time cost So"},{"t":5420,"text":"that is... Uh... Positive in the sense that there's clarity"},{"t":5425,"text":"uncertainty for an applicant in terms of what the impacts"},{"t":5428,"text":"are Um... However, as we've Staff has mentioned previously Generally"},{"t":5433,"text":"baseline feasibility is challenging in different scenarios right now And"},{"t":5438,"text":"so... Anytime we add additional costs to a project Um..."},{"t":5443,"text":"It may add risk And for projects that are very"},{"t":5447,"text":"much marginal Um... Each additional cost is something that adds"},{"t":5454,"text":"risk that that project may not move forward So it's"},{"t":5458,"text":"challenging to say each project is different Each scenario is"},{"t":5460,"text":"different Each applicant's risk threshold is different Each applicant's ability"},{"t":5464,"text":"to secure financing is different So it's challenging to generalize"},{"t":5468,"text":"But I would say This would be increasing compensation Um..."},{"t":5475,"text":"And not an insignificant way for the tendencies plan But"},{"t":5478,"text":"it's a... Okay. It's challenging Okay, so a follow -"},{"t":5483,"text":"up to that I know that we talked about exceptions"},{"t":5486,"text":"being made for cases for vulnerable people Like on the"},{"t":5491,"text":"other side of this So if this was a problem"},{"t":5494,"text":"for a project to be viable Could there be exceptions"},{"t":5498,"text":"made. In that as well. Is there room Through the"},{"t":5505,"text":"mirror, the bylaw establishes the minimum compensation requirements So that"},{"t":5509,"text":"would be that Okay. So... When I read this report."},{"t":5519,"text":"Uh When I saw five months, the five months rent"},{"t":5524,"text":"for over 9 to 20 years, and then it jumped"},{"t":5527,"text":"to 12 months rent. For 20 to 30 years. I"},{"t":5531,"text":"knew I highlighted it, because I knew instantly that the"},{"t":5534,"text":"mover was going to have an issue with this So"},{"t":5536,"text":"I'm not surprised that's here in front of us And"},{"t":5538,"text":"also for me too, that doesn't really. Make a lot"},{"t":5543,"text":"of sense And although I understand that this could cause..."},{"t":5549,"text":"This is tough, right? Like I... There's part of me"},{"t":5554,"text":"that wants to refer it for some more financial analysis"},{"t":5557,"text":"But what if... But I think what I am going"},{"t":5560,"text":"to do is vote in favor of the amendment. And"},{"t":5568,"text":"if there's issues Then we're going to have to... Look"},{"t":5571,"text":"at that. Is there a way to do that? If"},{"t":5574,"text":"there is a project that is getting stuck Because of"},{"t":5577,"text":"this... Can they come back to Council? Can we do..."},{"t":5581,"text":"Can we have some kind of workaround in that? Mr."},{"t":5585,"text":"Sauerd If this is adopted, when you come back with"},{"t":5588,"text":"the Byle itself Uh... As a result of direction... Would"},{"t":5593,"text":"you buy that time be able to provide any comments"},{"t":5595,"text":"on the impact of this at that time? Because you"},{"t":5598,"text":"won't be back to us till the fall."},{"t":5612,"text":"I thought time should there be any issues You could"},{"t":5614,"text":"certainly provide that advice at that time. Uh Through the"},{"t":5617,"text":"mayor Um Yes, we could do that Uh... We could"},{"t":5621,"text":"also have Council wanted We could circle back with... The"},{"t":5625,"text":"representatives from UDI, who we consulted with on this. Um..."},{"t":5628,"text":"But there would be time to bring back those answers"},{"t":5632,"text":"to you when the bylaws prepared. That's a perfect solution"},{"t":5637,"text":"Thank you Mayor. So with that I'll just... I will"},{"t":5639,"text":"be voting in favor. Thank you very much Um... On"},{"t":5643,"text":"the amendment Anyone else? Any moment? Plus for Caricono. C"},{"t":5647,"text":"I think Somerry Is there a procedural way of potentially"},{"t":5651,"text":"referring the amendment As future research so that we could"},{"t":5655,"text":"pass the bylaw as is. How might that occur? Um,"},{"t":5659,"text":"not really What the way for you to do that"},{"t":5663,"text":"in a proper way procedurally would simply be to defeat"},{"t":5665,"text":"this Uh... Announce that your support for the Rest Hope"},{"t":5669,"text":"the other one is adopted as a whole and then"},{"t":5671,"text":"provides some type of emotion Rising that suggests further inquiry"},{"t":5675,"text":"on this type of model C Okay I think that"},{"t":5677,"text":"I'm going to do that Because I... I don't... I"},{"t":5680,"text":"understand the intent here But I don't like making up"},{"t":5683,"text":"policy on the fly. And I want to respect the"},{"t":5686,"text":"fact that our staff are trying to strike a really"},{"t":5688,"text":"challenging balance right now Having consulted with a consultant... And"},{"t":5694,"text":"the 10 in advocacy groups and the development community We"},{"t":5696,"text":"know right now that development is an incredibly marginal and"},{"t":5700,"text":"challenging right now We also know that we need to"},{"t":5702,"text":"be protecting tenants against displacement It's a really challenging balance"},{"t":5705,"text":"point. I can imagine that the development industry will look"},{"t":5709,"text":"at this and be like Well, I guess Victoria City"},{"t":5712,"text":"Council doesn't want us to be building housing here. That's"},{"t":5715,"text":"going to be the takeaway The staff recommendation is already"},{"t":5720,"text":"a pretty significant increase in compensation That was based on"},{"t":5723,"text":"research and analysis. I don't like making up policy on"},{"t":5726,"text":"the fly Especially on technical matters That are tricky And"},{"t":5730,"text":"that is why we pay professional planners to do this"},{"t":5733,"text":"work And in the past the mover and secondary have"},{"t":5735,"text":"criticized efforts to make up policy on the fly and"},{"t":5738,"text":"said things like Why do we have professional planners at"},{"t":5740,"text":"all? Maybe we should fire our staff Well this is"},{"t":5743,"text":"an exact example of that We're making up or making"},{"t":5746,"text":"up policy on the fly here This is making up"},{"t":5749,"text":"policy on the fly for you to be debating one"},{"t":5751,"text":"another on behaviour Trust me It's this... This is making"},{"t":5754,"text":"a policy on the fly. And on a very technical"},{"t":5756,"text":"matter That staff have just spent months and months analysing"},{"t":5760,"text":"So I think that the staff recommendation was struck the"},{"t":5763,"text":"right balance But I do think that it is worthwhile"},{"t":5766,"text":"to take this information and rolled up into emotion arising"},{"t":5769,"text":"and say continue to work on this and monitor it"},{"t":5771,"text":"And see if there's opportunities to strengthen it even further"},{"t":5774,"text":"So my preference would be to defeat the amendment. But"},{"t":5777,"text":"to continue to work on it... Uh... Ongoingly Thanks Mayor"},{"t":5781,"text":"COUR Thank you And Council I am really going to"},{"t":5783,"text":"appeal to your better judgment and civility To stop interrupting"},{"t":5786,"text":"one another... And to stop laughing out loud at your"},{"t":5789,"text":"colleagues. This is not a debating club of teenagers. You"},{"t":5794,"text":"are intended to make serious decisions about serious matters Please"},{"t":5797,"text":"treat this matter with civility And trees please treat each"},{"t":5800,"text":"other with a certain degree of respect. I know we're"},{"t":5804,"text":"heading into a summer break And I know we're all"},{"t":5806,"text":"in campaign mode This is not the table. For that"},{"t":5810,"text":"behaviour. I am not going to recognise you Council Gardner"},{"t":5813,"text":"I'm going to proceed to ask the question about whether"},{"t":5816,"text":"anyone has any further comments on this amendment. Councillor Thompson"},{"t":5821,"text":"Please be brief. Very brief Um I also support the"},{"t":5825,"text":"approach of giving this more analysis Uh... With a motion"},{"t":5830,"text":"arising Rather than just saying... Boom! We'll make the changes"},{"t":5833,"text":"after Staff have done all this work. Thank you very"},{"t":5837,"text":"much Anyone else on the amendment. Councillor Lowe. Mayor I"},{"t":5843,"text":"just want to note that I think that the chance"},{"t":5846,"text":"to come back with some reflection on this When the"},{"t":5849,"text":"bylaw comes back Like you recommended Mayor. Helps Up with"},{"t":5855,"text":"this I don't see Any need to refer. And. The"},{"t":5861,"text":"difference here between 14 and 19 years. Is nine months"},{"t":5867,"text":"versus what it was Which is five months The six"},{"t":5871,"text":"ones will just leave that out for right now But"},{"t":5872,"text":"what we're talking about there Is four months rent at"},{"t":5877,"text":"what Maybe 2000 dollars Like we're not talking about astronomical"},{"t":5881,"text":"amounts of money here. And I think that staff can"},{"t":5884,"text":"come back and let us know when the bylaw comes"},{"t":5886,"text":"back If there are any issues with this So I'm"},{"t":5888,"text":"really happy to support this moving forward And I would"},{"t":5893,"text":"not be in support of any kind of referral Thanksgiar"},{"t":5897,"text":"You cannot refer this amendment You can defeat this and"},{"t":5899,"text":"then bring a different motion rising Councillor Gardner on the"},{"t":5903,"text":"amendment. Thank You just a question staff to make sure"},{"t":5906,"text":"I got my notes right When we look at number"},{"t":5908,"text":"one Five months went for more than five years We're"},{"t":5911,"text":"not tendencies less than five years. Mr. Sored."},{"t":5921,"text":"Um. A little under 70 percent was tendencies five years"},{"t":5926,"text":"or less Thank you Cause that means that This may"},{"t":5929,"text":"be a split But we have 70 percent that are"},{"t":5932,"text":"already on our existing bylaw. Aproximately Thank you very good."},{"t":5939,"text":"Anyone else on the amendment Council COUR Yes sorry Um"},{"t":5943,"text":"I would just Coming back from another meeting really quickly"},{"t":5945,"text":"there Can the mover just explain where the first three"},{"t":5948,"text":"came from Was it based on a research or it"},{"t":5950,"text":"was just at the movers discretion Making these numbers up"},{"t":5954,"text":"The fact that you were out of the room is"},{"t":5955,"text":"unfortunate But at this time given the time I'm going"},{"t":5958,"text":"to not allow that question And I suspect that you"},{"t":5961,"text":"will be able to make your decision based upon the"},{"t":5963,"text":"generality of the conversation. Anyone else on the amendment. Seeing"},{"t":5969,"text":"none, all those in favor of the amendment. Councillor Dell"},{"t":5972,"text":"Councillor Kim Councillor Loughton myself Councillor Coleman at Councillor Hammond"},{"t":5976,"text":"Council Gardner in opposition Councillor Caradona and Councillor Thompson Without"},{"t":5981,"text":"the amendment is adopted Staff you please make that adjustment"},{"t":5984,"text":"on the screen and Councillor Hammond you still have the"},{"t":5986,"text":"floor on the main motion as amended. Thanks Mayor Um"},{"t":5992,"text":"You know the things that anyone has to be considerate"},{"t":5997,"text":"of is knowing that there is certainty for developers Uh,"},{"t":6003,"text":"when they're going through this process Uh, just let me"},{"t":6006,"text":"see about Um My thoughts on this. Um. I am"},{"t":6013,"text":"very pleased actually see that Um... Council of support is"},{"t":6016,"text":"stronger compensation across a broader range of tendencies Presumably this"},{"t":6020,"text":"goes ahead A person doesn't need to have to live"},{"t":6022,"text":"in the same apartment for 30 or 40 years for"},{"t":6024,"text":"displacement to be deeply disruptive Someone who's lived in their"},{"t":6029,"text":"home for 10 years 15 years or 19 years has"},{"t":6033,"text":"established roots relationships and a rent That will most certainly"},{"t":6036,"text":"be considerably below what they face when searching for another"},{"t":6039,"text":"home Redevelopment may bring new housing But the existing tenants"},{"t":6044,"text":"bear is most immediate personal and financial cost. This amendment"},{"t":6049,"text":"provides more proportionate compensation while retaining the substantial protections recommended"},{"t":6055,"text":"by staff for our longest - standing tenants And I'm"},{"t":6058,"text":"pleased to support the motion I do also want to"},{"t":6060,"text":"say, and I said this before Anytime that someone is"},{"t":6064,"text":"buying property They need to do the math when they"},{"t":6067,"text":"see that they've got this part of their Pro forma,"},{"t":6071,"text":"part of their research is all the cost it's going"},{"t":6074,"text":"to include and they will also be saying Okay how"},{"t":6076,"text":"long have the tenants been here? And how much is"},{"t":6078,"text":"this going to cost me? And if it's so substantial"},{"t":6082,"text":"Then they need to go back to before buying this"},{"t":6084,"text":"property and say Well actually we got these extra costs"},{"t":6087,"text":"that weren't considered So in fact the compensation Uh the"},{"t":6090,"text":"price of this property should be PL less than that"},{"t":6093,"text":"As far as I'm concerned it comes down to... Just"},{"t":6096,"text":"math. Thanks very much Thank you Councillor Gardner as the"},{"t":6100,"text":"secondary of the main motion Thank you The staff report"},{"t":6103,"text":"begins by saying that the City's tenant protection bottle remains"},{"t":6107,"text":"amongst the most comprehensive and substantial in the province Now"},{"t":6111,"text":"I really appreciate that statement Because we have been discussing"},{"t":6114,"text":"this for a few years. And I also appreciate that"},{"t":6118,"text":"the increase in compensation for very long tenants. The moving"},{"t":6123,"text":"cost is of course will be appreciated by anyone who's"},{"t":6125,"text":"moving that there's an increase But here's a key point"},{"t":6129,"text":"While the increases in are described in the report as"},{"t":6133,"text":"minor These increases will be major for long - term"},{"t":6137,"text":"tenants And so thank you to staff for the research"},{"t":6140,"text":"and recommendations And I'm pleased to support this motion as"},{"t":6143,"text":"amended Thank you Thank you very much Anyone else on"},{"t":6146,"text":"the main motion as mended Council Um No I'm just"},{"t":6150,"text":"really happy to support this I think Uh adding tenant"},{"t":6154,"text":"protections is something that we've done well this term We"},{"t":6155,"text":"brought it back every year to be re - evaluating"},{"t":6158,"text":"those things But I also want to note that this"},{"t":6159,"text":"is really a small package of it The bigger thing"},{"t":6161,"text":"that this console needs to do is approve rental housing"},{"t":6165,"text":"Um... From many of my friends that I know they're"},{"t":6167,"text":"moving into the new rental housing that we've approved a"},{"t":6169,"text":"previous units Um... We've approved something like at Harriscreen at"},{"t":6174,"text":"starlight in the first year of a term Which allowed"},{"t":6175,"text":"1, 500 new units Uh... And many more at Bayview"},{"t":6179,"text":"and some of the other project I think it's 5,"},{"t":6181,"text":"000 units this term Um... And so I'm just thankful"},{"t":6183,"text":"for the councillors who did vote for those Um... Because"},{"t":6185,"text":"I think that's a much larger portion of it And"},{"t":6187,"text":"thanks for Staff for doing that work as well through"},{"t":6190,"text":"our OCP to incentivize New units Because that's really what"},{"t":6193,"text":"I'm saying It's a biggest bank for back in the"},{"t":6195,"text":"city But I'm happy to support this going forward. Thank"},{"t":6198,"text":"you very much Anybody else Councillor Thompson. Uh I'll be"},{"t":6202,"text":"brief as well Uh... Mayor I really appreciate Staff's work"},{"t":6205,"text":"on this and all the consultation that staff did with"},{"t":6208,"text":"tenants representatives Um... Folks in the development community Uh... Just"},{"t":6214,"text":"wanted to highlight that Staff mentioned that the tenants representative"},{"t":6217,"text":"said that the staff proposal was fair That the numbers"},{"t":6220,"text":"were fair Um... I do like the fact that this"},{"t":6223,"text":"puts us in a leadership position I had one more"},{"t":6227,"text":"question for staff now about the moving costs Um... I"},{"t":6231,"text":"had raised this before My understanding is that... Our... Proposed"},{"t":6237,"text":"moving costs. Are actually based on the real cost of"},{"t":6241,"text":"moving Um... And I'm not sure about Sanic Can Staff"},{"t":6245,"text":"explain the sanich basis Howard Through the mayor Yeah so"},{"t":6251,"text":"our proposal for the increase moving cost was based on"},{"t":6255,"text":"Uh just some Uh some initial like desktop research around"},{"t":6260,"text":"the cost of moving in Victoria Whereas in discussions with"},{"t":6264,"text":"Santage staff It looks like they had essentially Establish those"},{"t":6269,"text":"numbers to more or less align with like one month's"},{"t":6271,"text":"rent Um, as opposed to the actual cost of movie."},{"t":6274,"text":"COUR Okay Thanks In that case I you know If"},{"t":6277,"text":"we're basing it on actual data I won't be making"},{"t":6281,"text":"the amendment that I had implied earlier Uh... Thanks again"},{"t":6285,"text":"Uh... For all your work on this Happy to support"},{"t":6287,"text":"it. Thank you Anybody else Councillor Kim Through the chair"},{"t":6293,"text":"Um I'd like to go back to that about desktop"},{"t":6295,"text":"research. Um... Was it researching moving companies For example Was"},{"t":6300,"text":"it researching the cost of disposal of old things Or"},{"t":6304,"text":"in the cost of renting cars or vans? Like what"},{"t":6306,"text":"can... Can you flesh that out for me? Mr. Sauerd."},{"t":6311,"text":"Um I would have to confirm But I believe it"},{"t":6313,"text":"was talking to moving companies and getting Uh estimates for"},{"t":6317,"text":"moving costs. Good. Okay."},{"t":6329,"text":"Admit Admittedly I find that quite unsatisfactory Uh, because moving"},{"t":6332,"text":"is so much more than just the act of moving"},{"t":6336,"text":"There's disposal Um... Rental vehicles Uh... If folks are trying"},{"t":6339,"text":"to Make things more affordable Or maybe they have to"},{"t":6343,"text":"move far So. I rather than do this on the"},{"t":6349,"text":"fly I Will. Be bringing forward emotionalizing You good? Thanks."},{"t":6356,"text":"Anybody else on the amended motion. Just before I go"},{"t":6363,"text":"to call the question I will just note that I"},{"t":6365,"text":"believe staff have In fact now investigated the number of"},{"t":6368,"text":"tenants that were assisted under the bylaw Could you share"},{"t":6371,"text":"that with us please and the public. Um Through the"},{"t":6379,"text":"mayor Uh yes So as part of the consultation For"},{"t":6383,"text":"this Uh... review We did Um... Meet with a number"},{"t":6388,"text":"of tenants who had participate who had been impacted by"},{"t":6391,"text":"displacement And therefore were... Um... sort of subject to Uh..."},{"t":6396,"text":"Attend assistance plan in the past and Staff had meetings"},{"t":6400,"text":"with those tenants to sort of get some reflections and"},{"t":6404,"text":"lessons learned about Uh... Kind of how the tenant protection"},{"t":6408,"text":"Uh... How our tenant supports Uh... COUR - Sorry Mr."},{"t":6411,"text":"Sorry Perhaps I misspoke But it was my understanding that"},{"t":6414,"text":"in response to an earlier question from a member of"},{"t":6416,"text":"Council who had inquired as to How many people the"},{"t":6419,"text":"City had assisted Oh sorry. You now had that number"},{"t":6422,"text":"Yeah So I believe it's from Council of Thru the"},{"t":6427,"text":"Mayor Uh... 27 under the New bylaw and roughly 559"},{"t":6432,"text":"under the old policy. Very good Thank you very much"},{"t":6435,"text":"for that. Uh with that Any final comments or questions."},{"t":6440,"text":"I would only add as others have that This is"},{"t":6443,"text":"excellent work Very important given a city that has a"},{"t":6446,"text":"predominance of renters and appreciate very much the thought that's"},{"t":6448,"text":"gun to as Mr. Sauer Through the Through the mayor"},{"t":6452,"text":"sort of apologies Just to add one other note Um"},{"t":6455,"text":"When we are talking about household needs assessment Uh... Opportunities"},{"t":6459,"text":"for additional support Often Uh tenants who've had a really"},{"t":6463,"text":"longstanding tendency Um... Or maybe they have You know Issues"},{"t":6469,"text":"in terms of disabilities Or they need additional support for"},{"t":6472,"text":"moving That's often something that gets included through that negotiations"},{"t":6476,"text":"around additional support So although we identified the moving costs"},{"t":6480,"text":"based on estimates from local movers There is opportunities for"},{"t":6483,"text":"that additional support Through the household needs assessment to sometimes"},{"t":6487,"text":"include additional support for moving relocation And that can take"},{"t":6490,"text":"different forms. Very good Thank you for that. With that"},{"t":6493,"text":"then all those in favor. Does anyone opposed. That appears"},{"t":6500,"text":"to be unanimous Thank you very much for that And"},{"t":6502,"text":"thank you Staff for all the work that went into"},{"t":6504,"text":"preparing that. It does take us on to item f2"},{"t":6506,"text":"This is with regard to the 2027 28 Order privilege"},{"t":6511,"text":"Uh motion rising. That I telegraphed You indicated that you"},{"t":6514,"text":"would be bringing forward a council member motion I said"},{"t":6516,"text":"motion rising. I believe you said a Council member I"},{"t":6520,"text":"said Council Member Motion earlier But then I had a"},{"t":6522,"text":"motion arising. Would you like to explain what that is"},{"t":6525,"text":"so we can determine if it's relevant to the previous"},{"t":6527,"text":"decision. It is directing staff to undertake additional research on"},{"t":6532,"text":"moving costs and pro - rated compensation. That would be"},{"t":6536,"text":"appropriate Is there a secondary for that. Thanks comes for"},{"t":6539,"text":"Logan On your emotional rising briefly Councillor Kim. Um Yes"},{"t":6543,"text":"I just sent it to staff actually. Can you pull"},{"t":6547,"text":"it up please."},{"t":6566,"text":"Uh Could you please determine Uh I'm not sure your"},{"t":6569,"text":"second bullet there is relevant Given the amendments that were"},{"t":6573,"text":"just adopted in the previous motion. Yeah admittedly because this"},{"t":6577,"text":"was very quick I actually didn't manage to finish writing"},{"t":6583,"text":"that sentence So if may I finish the text on"},{"t":6588,"text":"that Yes Paraded compensation for tenants. Uh based on consultation"},{"t":6594,"text":"with tenant groups. Or tenant advocacy groups You would have"},{"t":6599,"text":"to include languages that includes a word such as further"},{"t":6602,"text":"consultation that has been made clear that uh... staff have"},{"t":6605,"text":"already consulted with various tenants and tenant groups Yep. So"},{"t":6608,"text":"if you want to do something over to above that"},{"t":6609,"text":"you would have to add that language in there Thank"},{"t":6612,"text":"you and um Is that it. Yes there's no timeline"},{"t":6616,"text":"intentionally Okay is there a seconder for that motion arising."},{"t":6620,"text":"Councillor Lotner is seconding that Councillor Kim briefly on your"},{"t":6623,"text":"motion arising please I don't feel I need to motivate"},{"t":6626,"text":"for Councillor than anything to add. Anyone else. Council Ramon"},{"t":6632,"text":"Just to be clear you have very little time left"},{"t":6635,"text":"to Councillor Hammond But just to be clear prorated is"},{"t":6638,"text":"that what does that mean? I believe the intention there"},{"t":6641,"text":"would be very similar to what you've already proposed Uh"},{"t":6644,"text":"in the sense of having gradations That's why I questioned"},{"t":6646,"text":"whether or not it was relevant given the previous amendment"},{"t":6648,"text":"But it indicates now that this is based on further"},{"t":6651,"text":"consultation with tenancy groups And so it is differential Okay,"},{"t":6654,"text":"so just to be clear It was what I proposed"},{"t":6656,"text":"last May and was rejected Is that okay Thanks. Anyone"},{"t":6659,"text":"else on the motion arising. Seeing note all those in"},{"t":6664,"text":"favor. And it would opposed. That is unanimous Thank you"},{"t":6668,"text":"for that. And thank you again for your work stuff"},{"t":6671,"text":"That takes us on to item f2 This is with"},{"t":6673,"text":"regard to the permissive tax exemption proposal from staff. And"},{"t":6677,"text":"for 2027 to 2028 and staff before you begin your"},{"t":6681,"text":"work at is incumbent on me to ask the question"},{"t":6684,"text":"of each Council member Uh do you have any need"},{"t":6687,"text":"to recuse yourself from this discussion due to any perceived"},{"t":6690,"text":"or real complex with any of the organisations recommended to"},{"t":6694,"text":"receive or not to receive a tax exemption in this"},{"t":6697,"text":"file If you do any of them because this is"},{"t":6700,"text":"a bundle that we can't separate It is time for"},{"t":6703,"text":"you to leave the room. No relationship with any of"},{"t":6709,"text":"the noted organisations. Bigger pardon Other than that yes that's"},{"t":6715,"text":"true That is a good point actually yes perhaps we"},{"t":6717,"text":"should all be recused at that point Uh, that being"},{"t":6719,"text":"said we prepared not so over to you Um... I'm"},{"t":6722,"text":"not sure whether or not this is Ms. Munk or"},{"t":6724,"text":"whether this is our CFO. When you're ready to go"},{"t":6727,"text":"over to you."},{"t":6739,"text":"Good morning Mayoralto and members of Council My name is"},{"t":6742,"text":"Leila Monk Manager of revenue. In the fall of 2025"},{"t":6746,"text":"Council approved the full cycle of permissive tax exemptions for"},{"t":6751,"text":"2026 through 2028. Off - cycle applications are brought forward"},{"t":6757,"text":"for Council's consideration each year under the current policy And"},{"t":6762,"text":"this is why they're only a few applications before you"},{"t":6765,"text":"today requesting an exemption for years 2027 through 2028. Staff"},{"t":6772,"text":"received a six applications from non - profit organisations and"},{"t":6776,"text":"four of these applications are recommended for approval As noted"},{"t":6780,"text":"in table one of the report While two applications are"},{"t":6784,"text":"not recommended for approval as noted in table two. As"},{"t":6790,"text":"well there are two City of Victoria exemptions recommended for"},{"t":6793,"text":"approval in table three. Staff have reviewed all applications and"},{"t":6799,"text":"have made recommendations based on the current policy and previous"},{"t":6802,"text":"Council decisions. Should Council wish to approve the applications recommended"},{"t":6808,"text":"for approval The total exemptions would remain within the current"},{"t":6813,"text":"cap of 1. 6 percent of the city's total tax"},{"t":6816,"text":"levy. While this concludes my brief introduction We're happy to"},{"t":6822,"text":"answer any questions. Thank you very much Brief is appreciated."},{"t":6827,"text":"Any questions. Councillor Dill. Uh Thank you Yeah I'm wondering"},{"t":6834,"text":"if you could provide some more explanation on the odd"},{"t":6837,"text":"fellows hall. Um that was recommended for rejection I read"},{"t":6840,"text":"through the staff information report on it Essentially it didn't"},{"t":6843,"text":"fit into an artsy culture category and did fit into"},{"t":6846,"text":"any clean category Um, although clearly it's a large knot"},{"t":6850,"text":"for profit building downtown Would you rebuild explain Have they"},{"t":6853,"text":"ever received a tax exemption? Is this the first year"},{"t":6856,"text":"they've come forward Do they come forward every year? It"},{"t":6859,"text":"just seemed to be a bit of an oddity And"},{"t":6861,"text":"again Maybe just restay your emphasis irrational for rejection. Is"},{"t":6866,"text":"monk. Uh Through the"},{"t":6876,"text":"mayor When reviewing applications Uh staff Uh. Reviewed the application"},{"t":6883,"text":"in accordance with the policy The categories that are listed"},{"t":6886,"text":"in the policy And the services provided by the organisation"},{"t":6890,"text":"did not align with a policy category And that is"},{"t":6894,"text":"the reason why Uh, the recommendation is to decline the"},{"t":6898,"text":"application Ms. Bunka I believe part of the question was"},{"t":6901,"text":"have they ever applied or received Uh... An exemption the"},{"t":6904,"text":"previous To my knowledge They have not previously applied Uh..."},{"t":6908,"text":"Nor received an exemption CORRI Thank you Councillor Anything else?"},{"t":6912,"text":"Okay That's helpful Thank you for that Thank you. Anybody"},{"t":6916,"text":"else Any other questions. Not seeing any other questions Sorry"},{"t":6921,"text":"go ahead Council Secured on it Did you want to"},{"t":6922,"text":"ask a question or remove the risk So moved. And"},{"t":6925,"text":"moved to a secondary Councillor Gardner Secondary rather The comments"},{"t":6930,"text":"Uh Just very briefly I agree with the recommendations to"},{"t":6933,"text":"add in Native friendship centre. Lifetime network and BC Association"},{"t":6942,"text":"Aboriginal friendship centres The rationale seems sound They own their"},{"t":6946,"text":"own their own buildings And they align with one or"},{"t":6950,"text":"more aspects of the PTE I also agree with the"},{"t":6953,"text":"ones that were proposed to be opposed. Uh... Because they"},{"t":6957,"text":"just simply don't meet the policy. Um... If I had"},{"t":6960,"text":"a chance to work with staff on one PTE that"},{"t":6964,"text":"an applicant had some questions about Really appreciate the responsiveness"},{"t":6968,"text":"And on the whole support this initiative import. Thank you"},{"t":6972,"text":"very much Councillor Gardner is a second or anything to"},{"t":6974,"text":"add. Uh thank you And I realised this takes us"},{"t":6978,"text":"to Uh with this exemptions to 1. 32 percent of"},{"t":6981,"text":"the tax levy and that we have a cap The"},{"t":6984,"text":"city has a cap of 1. 6 percent cap How"},{"t":6987,"text":"is that one point per six percent kind of standard"},{"t":6990,"text":"with all the municipalities and how long has it been"},{"t":6993,"text":"in effect City Victoria. And can you just tell me"},{"t":6996,"text":"a bit more about it. See if I Thompson. Um"},{"t":6999,"text":"Through the mayor So the uh I don't think that"},{"t":7001,"text":"there is a typical permissive exemption policy from municipalities I"},{"t":7006,"text":"think each Uh each handles these exemptions in a somewhat"},{"t":7011,"text":"unique way depending on their individual circumstances Uh, we had"},{"t":7014,"text":"a review down back in 2012 And that's where we"},{"t":7018,"text":"have had a policy in place since the 1990s Ums..."},{"t":7022,"text":"But we had the latest comprehensive review That was done"},{"t":7025,"text":"was back in 2012 Um, and that's where Um... We"},{"t":7028,"text":"actually had a number of Uhrganations that didn't fit Uh,"},{"t":7034,"text":"the existing policy at the time And uh... Recommended approval"},{"t":7038,"text":"to face some of them out Um... Simply because they"},{"t":7041,"text":"just did not align Uh over a 10 - year"},{"t":7044,"text":"period So that did take 10 years to do Um..."},{"t":7046,"text":"At that time Uh It our consultant that we had"},{"t":7050,"text":"in place Uh... Recommended that we pick a cap that"},{"t":7053,"text":"did not result in any reductions to exemptions So the"},{"t":7058,"text":"1. 6 percent was simply the amount that was needed"},{"t":7062,"text":"in order to keep everybody the existing one's whole Uh,"},{"t":7067,"text":"by phasing out some of the exemptions Uh that allowed"},{"t":7073,"text":"the other applicants to come in without impacting Um... Other"},{"t":7077,"text":"existing applicants So it's a little bit nuanced and unique"},{"t":7081,"text":"I would say for Victoria And I would also suggest"},{"t":7084,"text":"that it is Um... Conservative value Uh... That said It"},{"t":7090,"text":"does grow each year The City's taxes grow So it's"},{"t":7094,"text":"not a static amount It's a static percentage. Thank you,"},{"t":7098,"text":"Ryther Thank you. Any other questions. Seeing none that's been"},{"t":7104,"text":"moved in second at all is in favor. Does anyone"},{"t":7107,"text":"opposed. That is unanimous Thank you very much for that"},{"t":7111,"text":"And thank you very much for doing that work. Oh"},{"t":7113,"text":"that takes us on to items of New Business The"},{"t":7115,"text":"first one Item G1 Uh is a Council Member Motion"},{"t":7118,"text":"Which was placed on the consent agenda Just as a"},{"t":7120,"text":"reminder This was Advocacy to the provincial government on continued"},{"t":7123,"text":"operating subsidies For the Makola Housing Society And so that"},{"t":7127,"text":"will actually return to us for final consideration later today"},{"t":7131,"text":"As we try and wrap up all of our Business"},{"t":7134,"text":"Prior to our Aedis in August That takes us in"},{"t":7139,"text":"on two Item G2 This is a further Council Member"},{"t":7141,"text":"Motion with regard to advocacy to improve the return of"},{"t":7143,"text":"Fugitive is wanted on warrants Uh Councillor Thompson put this"},{"t":7146,"text":"forward And I seconded to this So I will assume"},{"t":7149,"text":"Council Thomas is moving I'll second Councillor Thompson over to"},{"t":7151,"text":"you. Thanks Mayor Um... I'll speak briefly to it Uh..."},{"t":7156,"text":"There's also a published memo Uh... That members of the"},{"t":7160,"text":"public can look at on the Committee website This morning"},{"t":7165,"text":"Uh... This is about safety. I've moved a number of"},{"t":7169,"text":"Advocacy Safety motions A wide range Including red light and"},{"t":7173,"text":"speeding cameras Bail reform for chronic Repeat offenders Uh... Allowing"},{"t":7178,"text":"disability scooters to use protected bike and roll infrastructure And"},{"t":7182,"text":"this is just more safety. Um. To make it simple"},{"t":7187,"text":"Uh... Quarts issue warrants for arrest Uh... For people... Charged"},{"t":7192,"text":"with offences that require them to appear in court Some"},{"t":7195,"text":"people flee those warrants to avoid trial Some who flee"},{"t":7200,"text":"end up here in Victoria Uh... Where they may create"},{"t":7203,"text":"risks for Victoria residents Housed and unhapsed. Uh... There does"},{"t":7208,"text":"exist a fugitive return program with NBC Uh... It's not"},{"t":7212,"text":"working too well And there isn't an equivalent national level"},{"t":7216,"text":"program. So the result of that is that in Victoria"},{"t":7221,"text":"Uh... Just in the first six months of 2026 80"},{"t":7225,"text":"fugitives with warrants in other places were identified Of those"},{"t":7229,"text":"80. 31 met the criteria for consideration to potentially be"},{"t":7234,"text":"returned Several involving serious charges like sexual assault or assaulting"},{"t":7240,"text":"a police officer But to date none have been returned"},{"t":7243,"text":"Showing the challenges with the existing partial system. I Want"},{"t":7251,"text":"to address a few potential questions. Uh this is not"},{"t":7255,"text":"adding new policing powers. Uh... This is not criminalizing homelessness"},{"t":7261,"text":"or addiction And in fact I am very careful never"},{"t":7265,"text":"to equate people experiencing homelessness or substance use disorder with"},{"t":7269,"text":"people accused of crime I think it's very important that"},{"t":7271,"text":"we never do that. Uh... There are also housed people"},{"t":7275,"text":"and people with other Addictions to licit substances who commit"},{"t":7281,"text":"crimes Probably the vast majority of crimes. Um... And I"},{"t":7286,"text":"would also just add that... Uh... What we're talking about"},{"t":7289,"text":"is people from other cities Uh... Where most folks that"},{"t":7292,"text":"are experiencing homelessness in Victoria are actually from here Or"},{"t":7296,"text":"have been here for many years. And I'll just also"},{"t":7299,"text":"add the Often the biggest victims of crime are actually"},{"t":7302,"text":"people experiencing homelessness And we're aware of this Council is"},{"t":7307,"text":"aware of assault's sexual assault and he - ingami trafficking"},{"t":7310,"text":"Uh... That victimized the unhoused. So this is basically about"},{"t":7315,"text":"fixing a system that isn't working Because it hasn't yet"},{"t":7318,"text":"been fully built. Um... Council members don't have to be"},{"t":7323,"text":"experts in criminal law and procedure to see the need"},{"t":7325,"text":"here It's fairly simple. Uh... If people get charged And"},{"t":7329,"text":"the issue will warrant. Um... They should face trial Rather"},{"t":7333,"text":"than skipping town and hiding out in another city. Uh..."},{"t":7336,"text":"So we're not looking to design What the system is"},{"t":7340,"text":"going to be here at Council Um We're not pretending"},{"t":7344,"text":"to be the experts We're just pointing out to the"},{"t":7346,"text":"experts in the federal and provincial governments But they need"},{"t":7349,"text":"to fix a broken system. Uh... So like we do"},{"t":7353,"text":"with many advocacy motions Uh... Including two that we passed"},{"t":7357,"text":"today Uh... G1 and G5 on affordable housing and metatomadine"},{"t":7362,"text":"response Uh... We're looking to the experts to fix this"},{"t":7367,"text":"Um... And... Make the system work Thanks Mayor COUR Thank"},{"t":7370,"text":"you very much Mr. Secondary The only thing I would"},{"t":7373,"text":"add is that Um... My understanding is... This is something"},{"t":7376,"text":"that would be seen as an additional tool for existing"},{"t":7380,"text":"police services working with existing laws And as an advocacy"},{"t":7385,"text":"motion Of course this is turning to the orders of"},{"t":7387,"text":"government that actually have the authority to examine and potentially"},{"t":7391,"text":"produce some solutions And so... I'm quite happy should Council"},{"t":7395,"text":"determine it to write such a letter and advocate for"},{"t":7398,"text":"these particular changes and resources from the province and the"},{"t":7402,"text":"federal governments. Other folks Councillor Kim Councillor Gardner Thank you"},{"t":7407,"text":"through the chair Um the reason I asked to pull"},{"t":7409,"text":"this on off of Consent is because I wanted to"},{"t":7411,"text":"raise a particular Uh concern That was raised by community"},{"t":7417,"text":"And I would look to the mover and or seconder"},{"t":7419,"text":"to be able to address that Um There are folks"},{"t":7423,"text":"who live in BC who are fugitives wanted on a"},{"t":7427,"text":"Uh wanted on warrants But who are actually fleeing abusive"},{"t":7430,"text":"situations from home provinces or cities Um... Could you speak"},{"t":7435,"text":"to how that would be addressed in the letter. COUR"},{"t":7438,"text":"Coaster Thompson Do you want to start. I would propose"},{"t":7442,"text":"that the letter mentioned that and encourage the federal and"},{"t":7446,"text":"provincial government to not add to the victimization of those"},{"t":7449,"text":"people. And leave it to the federal government and provincial"},{"t":7452,"text":"government to design the system so that it doesn't. Yes"},{"t":7456,"text":"and I'll just add thank you for that Councillor Thompson"},{"t":7457,"text":"I will just add to that that both the federal"},{"t":7459,"text":"and provincial governments have relatively recently in the case of"},{"t":7462,"text":"the federal government's Indicated significant resources being expended to in"},{"t":7466,"text":"fact protect individuals who are fleeing violence It would be"},{"t":7469,"text":"entirely appropriate to reference that in the letter You don't"},{"t":7473,"text":"need to an amendment to that Uh... In fact, and"},{"t":7476,"text":"to potentially even laud both orders of government for that"},{"t":7479,"text":"work. Certainly able, we'll absolutely do that Should this be"},{"t":7485,"text":"adopted. Uh, Councillor Gardner Thank you. What is mentioned is"},{"t":7494,"text":"the thing we knew from what has been in the"},{"t":7496,"text":"background Et cetera various kinds of offences And also. Victimization"},{"t":7503,"text":"further of those who are on Uh... Our streets in"},{"t":7506,"text":"inner park So my question is this And I don't"},{"t":7509,"text":"know if you know the answer Um... If anyone does"},{"t":7512,"text":"And that is... 31 that meet the crust Well program"},{"t":7517,"text":"City Victoria Does anyone know where they are staying right"},{"t":7522,"text":"now? Are they staying in the parks on a streets?"},{"t":7525,"text":"Are they staying in the port of housing Or are"},{"t":7527,"text":"they staying in rental housing Does anyone know Where they"},{"t":7531,"text":"are since everyone knows who they are? Not everyone But"},{"t":7534,"text":"the police Et cetera That would be a question for"},{"t":7536,"text":"the police and certainly would not be within either the"},{"t":7539,"text":"intention or the authority of city or this motion Yeah"},{"t":7542,"text":"No I'm just... Yeah My concern is whether or not"},{"t":7546,"text":"Whether or not some of these people are taking advantage"},{"t":7547,"text":"of the other services that people are trying That levels"},{"t":7552,"text":"of government are trying to provide to those who are"},{"t":7554,"text":"vulnerable in need Certainly outside either the intent or the"},{"t":7558,"text":"substance of this motion. Yeah Okay just wondering because someone"},{"t":7562,"text":"seems to know the 31 Thank you. Anyone else on"},{"t":7565,"text":"this motion. Not singing on other questions or comments All"},{"t":7571,"text":"those in favor. Is anyone opposed. That is unanimous Thank"},{"t":7577,"text":"you very much and thank you Councillor I will ensure"},{"t":7580,"text":"that that reference is included in the letter COUR Going"},{"t":7583,"text":"on the item G3 This was a Council Member Motion"},{"t":7585,"text":"formulating a fair wage policy This was placed on the"},{"t":7588,"text":"consent agenda And so we'll return to us later today"},{"t":7591,"text":"Actually as we give final consideration to a number of"},{"t":7594,"text":"items Which takes us on to item G4 This is"},{"t":7597,"text":"a further Council member motion Establishing a by name list"},{"t":7600,"text":"for the City Victoria This was put forward by Councillor"},{"t":7602,"text":"Lawton Council are presuming you're moving this. Yes And then"},{"t":7605,"text":"I will look for a seconder Councillor Thompson Go ahead"},{"t":7608,"text":"Councillor Lawton. I start with adding a quick amendment. Yes"},{"t":7614,"text":"certain Okay I think it's just going to make things"},{"t":7616,"text":"go smoother here So After so it starts with that"},{"t":7621,"text":"Council Direct staff to work with Could you please add"},{"t":7625,"text":"BC housing. Comma. And. Then a comma after as needed."},{"t":7637,"text":"Sorry as needed There is as needed a little later"},{"t":7640,"text":"in that main sentence So and community and government partners"},{"t":7642,"text":"as needed Comma Right. And you can actually capitalize housing"},{"t":7647,"text":"Billy believe you're referencing the organisation BC housing. Very good"},{"t":7652,"text":"So I won't require you to make that amendment I'll"},{"t":7655,"text":"just assume that that is your intention from the beginning"},{"t":7658,"text":"So speaking then to your proposal Go ahead Okay Thank"},{"t":7662,"text":"you. Um So. A by name list is a comprehensive"},{"t":7670,"text":"list of every person in a community experiencing homelessness And"},{"t":7674,"text":"it's updated in real time It uses information collected and"},{"t":7678,"text":"shared with the individual's consent and each person on the"},{"t":7681,"text":"list has things like It would be their name their"},{"t":7686,"text":"homeless history health care and housing needs By name lists"},{"t":7690,"text":"or by name data is the standard best practice in"},{"t":7694,"text":"modern homelessness response systems. And they are used throughout Canada"},{"t":7699,"text":"the United States and internationally. The city's making actual measurable"},{"t":7705,"text":"programs against homelessness aren't working off of point in time"},{"t":7709,"text":"Count data They are using real - time by name"},{"t":7713,"text":"lists and I would like to bring this modern standard"},{"t":7715,"text":"to our community in Victoria. The reason being you can't"},{"t":7720,"text":"solve a problem you don't truly understand And by name"},{"t":7724,"text":"lists moves us from guessing how many people are experiencing"},{"t":7727,"text":"once a year to knowing Every individual by name in"},{"t":7731,"text":"real time so we can connect into the Xact housing"},{"t":7733,"text":"and support that they need This allows better data to"},{"t":7738,"text":"evaluate the performance of our systems identify bottlenecks and Al"},{"t":7743,"text":"and most importantly allocate resources to where they will have"},{"t":7746,"text":"the most impact. A by name list also helps ensure"},{"t":7751,"text":"that housing placements and supports or supports are matched to"},{"t":7754,"text":"people based on their specific needs So individuals have a"},{"t":7759,"text":"best the best chance at maintaining their housing. Additionally The"},{"t":7767,"text":"by name list also provide accurate data on inflow and"},{"t":7771,"text":"outflow Meaning the inflow is people newly entering homelessness and"},{"t":7775,"text":"the outflow are people being housed or otherwise exiting the"},{"t":7779,"text":"systems And that helps us with understanding the global number"},{"t":7784,"text":"of people experiencing homelessness and why it's growing or shrinking"},{"t":7788,"text":"So for me this is one of the main reasons"},{"t":7791,"text":"why I'm bringing this today because We hear Council hears"},{"t":7798,"text":"about numbers You know 75 people have been housed through"},{"t":7802,"text":"our relocation coordinator primarily in city parks but not only"},{"t":7807,"text":"downtown as well We've had 74 people moving to independent"},{"t":7811,"text":"living from dollar place We have 248 net new shelter"},{"t":7816,"text":"and housing units And we've had 17 people moved to"},{"t":7819,"text":"their home communities Yet the numbers on the street don't"},{"t":7823,"text":"seem to be changing Like it's just these pieces that"},{"t":7828,"text":"come to us without knowing exactly what's going on And"},{"t":7832,"text":"we need to know why those numbers aren't changing And"},{"t":7835,"text":"that's what the inflow data will inform us on So"},{"t":7839,"text":"most likely the reason is that there's more people or"},{"t":7844,"text":"the same amount to people entering homelessness that we have"},{"t":7849,"text":"Exiting homelessness So if we can have access to these"},{"t":7853,"text":"numbers We'll be able to start working on more preventative"},{"t":7857,"text":"measures to stop that inflow Which will decrease the numbers"},{"t":7861,"text":"of visible homeless. People on the streets. Um, the other"},{"t":7868,"text":"thing And it was brought up earlier this morning Like"},{"t":7872,"text":"as an example The oak bay example where a woman"},{"t":7876,"text":"was evicted from Oak Bay and ended up on Pandora"},{"t":7879,"text":"In a case like this We'd be able to notify"},{"t":7882,"text":"Oak Bay and say You need to step up your"},{"t":7886,"text":"tenant protection or set up your own services for your"},{"t":7889,"text":"unhoused residents We'll know where people are coming from And"},{"t":7894,"text":"that is critically important in Victoria Because we have essentially"},{"t":7899,"text":"all of the services for the unhoused and the rest"},{"t":7902,"text":"of the region leans on us I'm not going to"},{"t":7905,"text":"I'm going to be very blunt about that That is"},{"t":7907,"text":"what happens And if we have information we can actually"},{"t":7911,"text":"reach out and say Hey you got to do your"},{"t":7914,"text":"part too. And also the really most important thing I"},{"t":7921,"text":"think here is that we are able to bring all"},{"t":7924,"text":"of Victoria's outreach efforts together So that is why I"},{"t":7929,"text":"did that Uh bit of a change in the motion"},{"t":7933,"text":"because the first step is to reach out to BC"},{"t":7935,"text":"Housing because the best way to do this is to"},{"t":7938,"text":"do it in collaboration with BC housing And then also"},{"t":7943,"text":"pull in all the community outreach partners that are doing"},{"t":7946,"text":"outreach work in the city so that we can centralize"},{"t":7948,"text":"this and not have people working with the same individuals"},{"t":7956,"text":"so that we can make sure we're working as efficiently"},{"t":7958,"text":"and as effectively as possible to get people indoors So"},{"t":7963,"text":"one way I sort of like to think of it"},{"t":7965,"text":"is without a by name list It's like we're driving"},{"t":7967,"text":"a car in the windshield is dirty And with a"},{"t":7971,"text":"we can't really see where we're going We're moving somewhere"},{"t":7973,"text":"But we don't really know where And with a by"},{"t":7976,"text":"name list we'll be able to tell We'll be able"},{"t":7979,"text":"to clean that windshield and be able to tell exactly"},{"t":7981,"text":"where we're going what we need to do to be"},{"t":7983,"text":"the most Um, effective with the services that are out"},{"t":7990,"text":"there to help people And again that that translates back"},{"t":7993,"text":"to saving taxpayer dollars on trying to alleviate homelessness on"},{"t":7999,"text":"our streets Thanks. Thank you very much Councillor Thompson is"},{"t":8003,"text":"a secondary and my apologies I should have checked with"},{"t":8005,"text":"you to ensure that you were okay with the addition"},{"t":8006,"text":"of BC housing I presumed you would be Thank you"},{"t":8009,"text":"for that And so over to you Thank you Mayor"},{"t":8012,"text":"Um And thanks to the mover for her initiative on"},{"t":8016,"text":"this This is the top issue Uh... For people downtown"},{"t":8020,"text":"and in many neighbourhoods Uh... That I've spoken with Uh..."},{"t":8023,"text":"Over the last few years Uh... We need to know"},{"t":8025,"text":"who these folks are that are on our streets And"},{"t":8028,"text":"what they need in order to help get them into"},{"t":8030,"text":"the right kind of housing And moreover To have them"},{"t":8033,"text":"succeed in that housing and move towards independent living Um"},{"t":8038,"text":"More importantly Uh this data can help us with homelessness"},{"t":8042,"text":"prevention As noted by my colleague. Um... I've been discussing"},{"t":8046,"text":"this idea with Councillor Lauten and with service providers since"},{"t":8050,"text":"the beginning of the term And I'm informed that... There"},{"t":8055,"text":"has been work on coordinated access Uh... For many years..."},{"t":8060,"text":"At the coalition and homelessness at the CRD. And it's"},{"t":8064,"text":"still not done And it was many years when we"},{"t":8065,"text":"started this term. Uh... I understand that it's more complex"},{"t":8071,"text":"than it might appear from the outside Uh... Partly because"},{"t":8074,"text":"of privacy regulations But it has been years and other"},{"t":8078,"text":"cities have already accomplished this Uh... So it's something that"},{"t":8081,"text":"can be done. Um... I just wondered if I could"},{"t":8084,"text":"get a comment from staff on The viability of this"},{"t":8089,"text":"in any concerns about privacy And whether they can be"},{"t":8092,"text":"addressed properly. I suspect I would go to either Mr."},{"t":8095,"text":"Rentier Ms. Webb. But either of you like to make"},{"t":8099,"text":"a comment on that. Uh Through the mirror. You know"},{"t":8105,"text":"One of the comments I would make is How does"},{"t":8108,"text":"this work with the provinces work on a high -"},{"t":8112,"text":"fist system. Um... Because what we don't want to do"},{"t":8115,"text":"is... Is being a situation that we're creating more separate..."},{"t":8122,"text":"Uh... By name lists And a by name list on"},{"t":8125,"text":"its own is just that Um... For it to be"},{"t":8128,"text":"really effective It has to be able to allow Uh..."},{"t":8132,"text":"Considerable access by other parties that are actually service providers"},{"t":8137,"text":"Out there Um... As well as have a means of"},{"t":8143,"text":"how do you match people their needs to the resources"},{"t":8146,"text":"that are there And so... That's the intent of the"},{"t":8150,"text":"HIFAS system Uh... I think we're all waiting for its"},{"t":8155,"text":"implementation. Um... So maybe... That's one question I'd have is"},{"t":8161,"text":"how would this work. Um... In parallel with that Uh..."},{"t":8167,"text":"The second is... Yes, security is a major concern that"},{"t":8173,"text":"we'd have to review Before going into Uh... And creating"},{"t":8177,"text":"such a list If... You know, HIFAS relies on the"},{"t":8184,"text":"provincial Uh... Government and its work around confidentially access and"},{"t":8189,"text":"security of data Um... So if the City was looking"},{"t":8192,"text":"at something itself We would need to... Uh... Spend some"},{"t":8197,"text":"time on the issues of security access. Thank you Mr."},{"t":8202,"text":"Ruan Tucci Okay Thanks follow - up question from that"},{"t":8206,"text":"Um... Then I assume But please correct me if I'm"},{"t":8209,"text":"wrong I assume that if this were to pass today"},{"t":8212,"text":"Uh... Staff would look into those points that you've raised"},{"t":8216,"text":"Uh... And thanks for raising those. And when coming back"},{"t":8221,"text":"to Council Report on those And if there are solutions"},{"t":8225,"text":"I assume staff would explain the solutions If there are"},{"t":8227,"text":"no solutions And it's a serious barrier I assume Staff"},{"t":8231,"text":"would also say that Is that correct? Mr. Rannucci Would"},{"t":8234,"text":"that be your intention when you're reporting back. Through the"},{"t":8238,"text":"mayor Our intention would be to come back with identifying"},{"t":8242,"text":"What some of the issues are if the solutions Um..."},{"t":8246,"text":"I think it'd be good to come back with an"},{"t":8248,"text":"update on HIFES. Because in the end what Council is"},{"t":8256,"text":"wanting to achieve all of us They're wanting to achieve"},{"t":8258,"text":"is what HIFAS is supposed to do. Um... So I"},{"t":8263,"text":"think that any pressure that we can put Uh... Expedite"},{"t":8268,"text":"that further. Um... Also comes out of a motion like"},{"t":8271,"text":"this. Johnson Anything else? No Thank you very much for"},{"t":8275,"text":"that Thanksgiving Councillor Gardner. Thank you first of all What"},{"t":8280,"text":"was the name of the list you had that you're"},{"t":8282,"text":"creating? Or not? Hisis. Hyphas H - I - F"},{"t":8287,"text":"- I - S H - I - F -"},{"t":8290,"text":"I - S Thank you. Okay. Just through the mayor"},{"t":8296,"text":"If I could clarify Yes go ahead. HIFUS is a"},{"t":8301,"text":"Program that the federal government has rolled out made available"},{"t":8304,"text":"through licensing Uh... It's not A City - drived Um..."},{"t":8309,"text":"And different provinces are rolling that out Uh... And... And"},{"t":8314,"text":"in British Columbia that rollout is the responsibility of BC"},{"t":8318,"text":"housing. I have something else to add to that at"},{"t":8322,"text":"the end of the Yeah Thank you That's very very"},{"t":8325,"text":"useful because my question was going to be We've been"},{"t":8327,"text":"hearing about this for years Uh And what have you"},{"t":8330,"text":"saw I was going to ask you Why we don't"},{"t":8332,"text":"have a list yet Since we have so many groups"},{"t":8334,"text":"that are doing outreach And I understand Over the last"},{"t":8338,"text":"three years at least Uh you and others have been"},{"t":8341,"text":"somewhat explaining the Not breaks communication But that we have"},{"t":8346,"text":"so many involved in it But yet we don't have"},{"t":8349,"text":"a real centralized thing So that's what this new list"},{"t":8351,"text":"will do. You're hoping. Through the mirror The high -"},{"t":8357,"text":"fist system once implemented Yes and other components to it."},{"t":8362,"text":"And what is a timeline for that. Perhaps I will"},{"t":8367,"text":"take you off of the short edge of the knife"},{"t":8370,"text":"and say Uhus has been on the agenda of the"},{"t":8373,"text":"capital regional district since 2014. Uh - huh And certainly"},{"t":8377,"text":"I will say that I have repeatedly made that point"},{"t":8380,"text":"at the CRD table. So I would be impossible for"},{"t":8384,"text":"staff to venture any type of a gas And when"},{"t":8386,"text":"that might be concluded. Well I appreciate that Thank you"},{"t":8389,"text":"very much That clarification Um Okay during the last community"},{"t":8396,"text":"safety and well - being plan a few weeks ago"},{"t":8399,"text":"And actually going back three or three years or longer"},{"t":8402,"text":"In other words since we've been here Uh There's staff"},{"t":8405,"text":"have identified several But not organisations involved in the work"},{"t":8408,"text":"of relationships and making lists We've been hearing about lists"},{"t":8412,"text":"for quite a while from different groups. And so can"},{"t":8417,"text":"we have when you come back If this goes through"},{"t":8420,"text":"A list of organisations involved with relationship aspect of identifying"},{"t":8424,"text":"those on the streets in our parks And the organisations"},{"t":8429,"text":"which over the last few years have been Well, last"},{"t":8432,"text":"three at least from 2024 2025 and 2026 Organisations charge"},{"t":8437,"text":"with attempting to get people on the streets Enter park"},{"t":8441,"text":"support or housing So the list of them and the"},{"t":8444,"text":"organisations Which the city Perhaps has funded to monitor Even"},{"t":8449,"text":"those organisations Uh... I think that it's time that we"},{"t":8452,"text":"had a full list of those organisations Again You mentioned"},{"t":8455,"text":"several staff mentioned Several a couple weeks ago But we"},{"t":8459,"text":"actually I think it's time that the public wants to"},{"t":8461,"text":"see a list of how many groups and organisations have"},{"t":8464,"text":"been involved in this And then mount and I realised"},{"t":8468,"text":"we don't have numbers Uh... Dollar numbers for the provincial"},{"t":8472,"text":"Uh... efforts that they've been doing But for the ones"},{"t":8476,"text":"the City has been funding I'd really like to see"},{"t":8479,"text":"a list of organisations And then for the City ones"},{"t":8482,"text":"I want to see how much in the way of"},{"t":8483,"text":"grants Or in the way of contracts have been led"},{"t":8487,"text":"to them since 2024 And 2025 in part of this"},{"t":8491,"text":"year Is that would that be possible in a report"},{"t":8493,"text":"that you come back on this. I see stuff Nodding"},{"t":8496,"text":"at various times So I suspect that's possible. Sorry I"},{"t":8500,"text":"couldn't hear you. Okay So do I have to amend"},{"t":8504,"text":"this motion Or will that be part of it? No"},{"t":8506,"text":"You don't need to amend it Thank you very much"},{"t":8509,"text":"And I know it's been a real challenge I mean"},{"t":8512,"text":"even For everybody in the city But for staff to"},{"t":8515,"text":"try and get Uh... A handle on this As so"},{"t":8518,"text":"many of the organisations seem to be like... Well What's"},{"t":8521,"text":"up line about Corral and cats? And in the way"},{"t":8524,"text":"That's what you have been doing or trying to do"},{"t":8526,"text":"And I quite appreciate that the work that Staff has"},{"t":8529,"text":"been doing on trying to get everybody Actually Accountable. And"},{"t":8533,"text":"Doing their bit Thank you. Thank you very much Councillor"},{"t":8536,"text":"Kim. Uh Thank you Mayor Will you give me a"},{"t":8540,"text":"heads up if my time hits 5 minutes You bet"},{"t":8543,"text":"Thanks Um I am going to run through a list"},{"t":8547,"text":"of concerns about this That community have raised Because I"},{"t":8550,"text":"think Um... This is an opportunity Uh... To set the"},{"t":8553,"text":"record straight on some things As well as clear some"},{"t":8555,"text":"potential Um... Information That's incomplete Uh... Could the mover speak"},{"t":8561,"text":"to Why there is a need for standalone data to"},{"t":8565,"text":"be owned by the City of Victoria. Alright That would"},{"t":8571,"text":"be to Council Loughton C Through you mayor Um. Clearly"},{"t":8576,"text":"I'm not involved in operations But I don't see this"},{"t":8579,"text":"as being owned by the City of Victoria I see"},{"t":8582,"text":"this as... Working in partnership with BC Housing And that"},{"t":8586,"text":"BC Housing would most likely Maintain that information But I"},{"t":8592,"text":"would have to ask Like that's a really a question"},{"t":8595,"text":"for staff and not through me But that's how I"},{"t":8599,"text":"see this working That we would reach out to BC"},{"t":8602,"text":"Housing to see if they'll collaborate with us. But. It's"},{"t":8609,"text":"their data and their system that we would be using."},{"t":8612,"text":"C I think just to be clear Anticipating some of"},{"t":8615,"text":"your other questions Councillor That the reporting back function of"},{"t":8618,"text":"this is likely to be able to answer some of"},{"t":8621,"text":"the questions that you will pose today. Okay Thanks There"},{"t":8627,"text":"is a criticism that this list is. It's... Shuffling duck"},{"t":8636,"text":"chairs around the Titanic I go back to the metaphor"},{"t":8639,"text":"of the Dirty Windshid Um... And yes You can clean"},{"t":8643,"text":"up the windshield But the rest of the road isn't"},{"t":8645,"text":"built. What do we say to that? Well that's why"},{"t":8651,"text":"we need a by name list. But the rest of"},{"t":8656,"text":"the road isn't built The housing isn't there But then..."},{"t":8660,"text":"Caution both of you Okay Not the venue for you"},{"t":8662,"text":"to have a conversation Okay So asking questions is entirely"},{"t":8666,"text":"appropriate trying to answer them as much as you can"},{"t":8668,"text":"as appropriate COVID If the answers are not relevant Then"},{"t":8672,"text":"or possible or available That's a question that is to"},{"t":8674,"text":"be determined Okay So through you Mayor That enables us"},{"t":8679,"text":"to advocate for exactly what's needed So I'll give an"},{"t":8683,"text":"example If we know Um... How many people are entering"},{"t":8687,"text":"homelessness Because they've been evicted over financial reasons only. We"},{"t":8692,"text":"would have that information And we could advocate for more"},{"t":8695,"text":"support from the rent bank Or more rent supplements or"},{"t":8698,"text":"more ways to get those people back into housing as"},{"t":8701,"text":"quickly as possible Conversely If there was significant number of"},{"t":8706,"text":"people who needed For example Complex CARE, the same thing"},{"t":8710,"text":"would happen There we can advocate for that... Number of"},{"t":8715,"text":"complex CAREBEDS and try to figure out creative solutions to"},{"t":8719,"text":"create those COMPEX. CARE BEDS. So It helps with knowing"},{"t":8727,"text":"exactly what's needed And I think it's important also for"},{"t":8731,"text":"BC Housing and for... Community partners that are doing outreach"},{"t":8736,"text":"to have this information too So that we're really clear"},{"t":8738,"text":"on what we need to create. Um Thank you That"},{"t":8742,"text":"does answer the question Um... And I will further that"},{"t":8746,"text":"Uh There's also criticism that... Um... Having this data about"},{"t":8751,"text":"what's upstream as well as what's needed downstream Actually is"},{"t":8754,"text":"just allows the City to point the finger to other"},{"t":8758,"text":"actors Who up until now have been recalcitrant to do"},{"t":8761,"text":"anything So how do you see this operating to change"},{"t":8765,"text":"that, if at all? How's your load? Um. Well I"},{"t":8773,"text":"think we do need to know Where people are coming"},{"t":8777,"text":"from... I mean we've talked about this a lot at"},{"t":8783,"text":"this table That we... that Victoria Essentially has all of"},{"t":8787,"text":"the services in the region And it's untenable So we"},{"t":8791,"text":"need to know that information So again It's an advocacy"},{"t":8795,"text":"piece to try to encourage... Um... Other municipalities in the"},{"t":8799,"text":"region to do their part or to take This work"},{"t":8801,"text":"more to the CRD board To push things forward that"},{"t":8806,"text":"are needed So that we can... Um... Distribute... The load,"},{"t":8812,"text":"for lack of a better way to describe that across"},{"t":8814,"text":"the region rather than... It being all placed in Victoria"},{"t":8820,"text":"It is very... That's really hard on everybody And it..."},{"t":8823,"text":"It ultimately... makes it more difficult for... To provide what"},{"t":8830,"text":"Unhouse people need... When... Residents and businesses are complaining And"},{"t":8836,"text":"there's because the many services and too many people here"},{"t":8839,"text":"We do need to distribute it There does need to"},{"t":8842,"text":"be services all over the region And it might be"},{"t":8846,"text":"up Island too Like there We don't know That's the"},{"t":8848,"text":"thing And that's why I want this We could say"},{"t":8850,"text":"Oh really people aren't coming from across Canada They're coming"},{"t":8853,"text":"from the CRD Or maybe they're coming from Campbell River"},{"t":8856,"text":"or Nanaimo Or we don't know And that's what a"},{"t":8861,"text":"by name list That's the information It will tell us."},{"t":8864,"text":"Um... There are also Uh... Concerns not just of the"},{"t":8869,"text":"privacy of the data But also who gets to access"},{"t":8873,"text":"that data So there are concerns about Um... Potentially police"},{"t":8877,"text":"or law enforcement Axissing this data. Um... Can that be"},{"t":8882,"text":"addressed. Through you Mayor? I will also urge some caution"},{"t":8886,"text":"And that is definitely a question of determination Once this"},{"t":8890,"text":"begin The process begins to have some engagement The fact"},{"t":8893,"text":"that this says work with BC housing and community and"},{"t":8896,"text":"government partners Uh creates a venue for exactly that conversation"},{"t":8900,"text":"Uh... And for an answer is to be had before"},{"t":8902,"text":"anything happens. I find that's acceptable Unless the more to"},{"t":8906,"text":"add. Again I mean that's not The intention here is"},{"t":8912,"text":"that it would work through BC housing So my. I"},{"t":8917,"text":"Mean I think this needs to come back to us"},{"t":8918,"text":"But my thought on is that No the police or"},{"t":8924,"text":"bylaw or what have you would not have access to"},{"t":8926,"text":"this list This is a housing list Um... Thank you"},{"t":8930,"text":"another query that comes from community is... Allowing anonymity for"},{"t":8935,"text":"those who require that sense of security Of anonymity to"},{"t":8941,"text":"access services Um... How would that be handled? Or not"},{"t":8945,"text":"necessarily how But... What are the ideas here? That's a"},{"t":8949,"text":"really Through you mayor That's a really good question And"},{"t":8952,"text":"I did do... Of course I've done quite a bit"},{"t":8955,"text":"of reading and research on this And I think there"},{"t":8956,"text":"was that was brought up in the Some of the"},{"t":8961,"text":"documents that I read Where you could have a name"},{"t":8964,"text":"or an alias Or some other kind of way of"},{"t":8968,"text":"identifying that person For a variety of different reasons Why"},{"t":8973,"text":"that might be important So I think that would be"},{"t":8975,"text":"something that we could bring up When probably when the"},{"t":8979,"text":"first report comes back to us. But that's really important"},{"t":8983,"text":"I'm glad that that question is here Um Thank you"},{"t":8987,"text":"Further to that then Um Do you feel like this"},{"t":8989,"text":"address is concerns from community and outreach Uh... Organisations about"},{"t":8993,"text":"how this could jeopardize trust with clients who are... reluctant"},{"t":8999,"text":"to engage. Yeah Through you Mayor. Trust is such an"},{"t":9006,"text":"important thing There's... We don't have anything unless those If"},{"t":9009,"text":"we have for outreach workers to have those really firm"},{"t":9013,"text":"and solid Relationships working with people And it's... It's such"},{"t":9017,"text":"an important thing Um... What I would say about that"},{"t":9021,"text":"is It would... Working with people... And they have the"},{"t":9029,"text":"opportunity to opt in It has to happen with their"},{"t":9031,"text":"consent So I don't see this as they're a bunch"},{"t":9037,"text":"of pressure being Put on people to participate But there"},{"t":9042,"text":"is going to be... I think that the outreach workers"},{"t":9050,"text":"would need They'll probably They're asking questions right now But"},{"t":9052,"text":"there might also be need for more time for them"},{"t":9055,"text":"to ask questions about this so that they First of"},{"t":9058,"text":"all have trust in the system so that they can"},{"t":9060,"text":"pass that on to the people that they're working with"},{"t":9062,"text":"I think that again It's something that is going That"},{"t":9066,"text":"is going to have to be brought up when the"},{"t":9068,"text":"report comes back. To figure out how to do that"},{"t":9072,"text":"And how to make people feel like they can trust"},{"t":9074,"text":"the system So when in the motion where it says"},{"t":9078,"text":"Community partners Are those outreach groups also part of what's"},{"t":9080,"text":"being envisioned? Yes Okay. Yeah Um There's also criticism that"},{"t":9085,"text":"Even if it is meant to allow clients or individuals"},{"t":9090,"text":"to opt out Because it's meant to be done by"},{"t":9092,"text":"consent That then you're actually building an incomplete set of"},{"t":9095,"text":"data. ThroU Mayor We're going to have to try to"},{"t":9100,"text":"do our best to make sure people know that this"},{"t":9102,"text":"is to try to help them get placed into the"},{"t":9106,"text":"most suitable. Um... Place for them. And I think we"},{"t":9114,"text":"could also go and look at other communities that are"},{"t":9117,"text":"doing this Because as I've mentioned This isn't This isn't"},{"t":9121,"text":"some sort of novel idea There are more than 35"},{"t":9124,"text":"communities representing over 60 municipalities across Canada that are actively"},{"t":9130,"text":"using by name Lists or by name data as part"},{"t":9133,"text":"of... Um... The BULT for Xero campaign And the federal"},{"t":9136,"text":"reaching home homelessness strategy This isn't Um... This is being"},{"t":9140,"text":"done all over the country. And it is the most"},{"t":9146,"text":"effective way to connect people with services So. As has"},{"t":9152,"text":"been mentioned We've been waiting for 12 years for HIFAS"},{"t":9157,"text":"It's not here yet. I see this as in interim"},{"t":9161,"text":"solution Until HEFAS finally does come online. But we can't"},{"t":9166,"text":"wait. It's too dangerous out there right now We need"},{"t":9169,"text":"to get people indoors For our whole community. Everyone and"},{"t":9174,"text":"the systems are suffering from it So perhaps it's going"},{"t":9178,"text":"to take some more communication or more work with building"},{"t":9182,"text":"that trust Which I get I get why this question"},{"t":9185,"text":"is here But we're going to need to do that"},{"t":9187,"text":"work It's... We have to try. Councillor Kim just before"},{"t":9192,"text":"YOUGON I believe Mr. Rantucci wants to offer a comment"},{"t":9195,"text":"Which might be relevant. Through the mayor. You know The"},{"t":9203,"text":"direction we're getting is to come with a report back"},{"t":9207,"text":"Right now the motion isn't... It actually established us into"},{"t":9212,"text":"what looks like a monthly. A monthly report So I'd"},{"t":9216,"text":"ask for some clarity and the motion That you are"},{"t":9220,"text":"looking for a report back. Um... There seems to be..."},{"t":9226,"text":"A direction coming that the City would not be the"},{"t":9232,"text":"possessor of the data I think that is a major"},{"t":9236,"text":"piece that we should determine Because if the city is..."},{"t":9240,"text":"That does have... Fundamental differences in terms of security Access..."},{"t":9246,"text":"Um... So if there could be some clarity In the"},{"t":9249,"text":"motion on that as well I believe that's what we're"},{"t":9254,"text":"wanting to go But it'd be good if we could"},{"t":9255,"text":"have those two parts Just in the motion COURE C"},{"t":9258,"text":"We'll take that under advisement Thank you Mr. Artushee I'm"},{"t":9261,"text":"going to suggest that Councillor Kim complete her questions I"},{"t":9264,"text":"do have one other person who's indicated They wish to"},{"t":9266,"text":"speak to this And before we do vote on this"},{"t":9269,"text":"We'll consider whether or not there needs to be any"},{"t":9270,"text":"amendments based upon your commentary Mayor I'm actually going to"},{"t":9273,"text":"pause my line of questioning Um just to regroup my"},{"t":9278,"text":"thoughts here If I may? Thank you Councillor Caridona. Okay"},{"t":9282,"text":"Thanks so I'm hearing from staff that they want this"},{"t":9285,"text":"to be clarified as a report back And what was"},{"t":9288,"text":"the other thing. That would appear to be the comment"},{"t":9291,"text":"Yes. Okay. Should I move that or someone else want"},{"t":9296,"text":"to? You may do that if you like? Okay Um"},{"t":9298,"text":"Then I will move that. The Council Direct staff to"},{"t":9303,"text":"report back on. Working with dot dot dot. So adding"},{"t":9309,"text":"ING. Does that make sense? If that were the case"},{"t":9317,"text":"I think you likely would want to delete Everything after"},{"t":9322,"text":"Victoria. Unless you wanted to at that point Perhaps us"},{"t":9326,"text":"and report back and then give a date. Perhaps Councillor"},{"t":9330,"text":"Gardner might be more I don't know I'm just trying"},{"t":9331,"text":"to respond to what staff has said here So I'll"},{"t":9333,"text":"take your advice on what staff I've said though I"},{"t":9336,"text":"think there's some confusion over the monthly reporting. As opposed"},{"t":9341,"text":"to reporting back in general about how this would work"},{"t":9344,"text":"Okay, seriously Perhaps if you're going to say report back"},{"t":9347,"text":"Then you might want to just say and report back"},{"t":9351,"text":"to Council on Pick a date. Or perhaps to say"},{"t":9357,"text":"report back by a date. On working Etc. Etc. Whatever"},{"t":9361,"text":"you prefer Okay. And what do we want this to"},{"t":9364,"text":"come soon rather than later? Therefore maybe be a verbal"},{"t":9366,"text":"report back Yes. I would think so How about we"},{"t":9370,"text":"say that then? The Council Direct staff to Verbally report"},{"t":9374,"text":"back so that it can come sooner rather than a"},{"t":9377,"text":"written report. On work we see how to do it"},{"t":9380,"text":"in population in the City of Victoria and then just"},{"t":9382,"text":"a period after Victoria. COUR Okay. That's certainly in order."},{"t":9389,"text":"Was there a sector for that amendment. Councillor Kim is"},{"t":9393,"text":"second Amendment Councillor Caradona Just on the amendment I'm trying"},{"t":9397,"text":"to respond to what staff saying It sounds like they"},{"t":9398,"text":"feel like they need some time to look into this"},{"t":9400,"text":"Look into privacy Look into feasibility Et cetera Um... Whether"},{"t":9405,"text":"this passes as a report back or not Either way"},{"t":9408,"text":"it looks like it's coming as a report back So"},{"t":9409,"text":"might as well clarify that direction. Um verbally means it"},{"t":9413,"text":"could come back sooner Rather than later So maybe this"},{"t":9415,"text":"is something that could come in September. And we could"},{"t":9418,"text":"get a kind of high level understanding of what the"},{"t":9421,"text":"possibilities are What the challenges are and then make a"},{"t":9423,"text":"decision at that time. Thank you Councillor Kim on the"},{"t":9427,"text":"amendment Uh thank you Thank you to staff and the"},{"t":9430,"text":"mover for this Uh already getting way more accountability than"},{"t":9434,"text":"we are with BC housing and the CRD And arguably"},{"t":9436,"text":"the feds on this So let's go. Thank you on"},{"t":9439,"text":"the amendment Anyone else That's for Loton. Oh my mic"},{"t":9445,"text":"was still on Through you Mayor This is not my"},{"t":9448,"text":"intention This is not what I want. We have a"},{"t":9453,"text":"crisis within a crisis on our street right now. We"},{"t":9457,"text":"need to start working on this right away September is"},{"t":9461,"text":"too long And what I would like to see here"},{"t":9465,"text":"And if this fails Which I hope it does. The"},{"t":9470,"text":"first step is just for staff to reach out to"},{"t":9472,"text":"BC Housing to see if this is possible And then"},{"t":9475,"text":"if it is Go ahead and start the work If"},{"t":9479,"text":"it's not Then come back and talk to us That's"},{"t":9482,"text":"how I would like the direction to go forward And"},{"t":9485,"text":"can I ask that that would be Agreeable to staff?"},{"t":9491,"text":"Does that give you clear enough direction on what to"},{"t":9494,"text":"do here? Because really the first step is Will BC"},{"t":9498,"text":"housing do this with us. I might paraphrase what I"},{"t":9502,"text":"think I heard Councillor say If this were if this"},{"t":9506,"text":"amendment were to be adopted Would their first step be"},{"t":9509,"text":"doing exactly what Councillor Lawton just described so that you"},{"t":9512,"text":"could report back on feasibility. Or do you need that"},{"t":9516,"text":"specific direction. It would be the first step That would"},{"t":9522,"text":"be the first logical step I would think So it"},{"t":9525,"text":"was just Councillor not to interrupt in your flow But"},{"t":9527,"text":"it would be I was intending to propose an amendment"},{"t":9530,"text":"to the amendment Which would actually put a date on"},{"t":9532,"text":"this And that would be September 3rd for our next"},{"t":9535,"text":"Council meeting. Which would I think imply that exactly what"},{"t":9538,"text":"Mr. Rentucci said what happened in the next four weeks"},{"t":9540,"text":"and that they would come back and then tell us"},{"t":9542,"text":"that Okay Through you that the only issue I have"},{"t":9546,"text":"with that is let's say for instance You send an"},{"t":9550,"text":"email to BC housing after this is ratified And they"},{"t":9554,"text":"come back and they say yes Some of this work"},{"t":9558,"text":"potentially might be able to start before September the 3rd"},{"t":9562,"text":"And that may not be possible because it's summer and"},{"t":9566,"text":"I get that But I would like that possibility to"},{"t":9569,"text":"be there just in consideration of what's happening out there"},{"t":9574,"text":"right now So I just would like I get what"},{"t":9577,"text":"you're saying We need to we need to give this"},{"t":9578,"text":"some time And I understand that But if there is"},{"t":9581,"text":"a way that we can word this where if BC"},{"t":9584,"text":"housing says Hey yes Um great idea Let's do this"},{"t":9588,"text":"work together Let's you know bring all of our outreach"},{"t":9591,"text":"services together under one roof And get after this that"},{"t":9595,"text":"some of that work could start in August Mm -"},{"t":9597,"text":"hmm. Let me just see here I'm not going to"},{"t":9602,"text":"put stuff on the spot to ask the question which"},{"t":9604,"text":"would be illogical outcome Which we do you think there's"},{"t":9608,"text":"a chance at all that that would happen in August"},{"t":9610,"text":"with busy housing But let me see if I can"},{"t":9614,"text":"Suggest something here. You could do an amendment to the"},{"t":9617,"text":"amendment which and so staff work with me here because"},{"t":9619,"text":"I'm going to try and think this out loud If"},{"t":9622,"text":"you then said that Council direct staff two reach out"},{"t":9628,"text":"to BC housing. To BC housing."},{"t":9643,"text":"To explore. The possibility. Of working together."},{"t":9659,"text":"Comma. Hang on. I'm going to just keep talking here"},{"t":9666,"text":"so bear with me. Um take out that comma. And"},{"t":9669,"text":"say working together and then copy to set up a"},{"t":9673,"text":"by name list for the unsheltered homeless population at City"},{"t":9676,"text":"Victoria So copy that second part of the sentence Don't"},{"t":9680,"text":"delete it just copy it. And stick it in after"},{"t":9683,"text":"together. Right there, you're right."},{"t":9695,"text":"And then leave in verbally report back. So leave that"},{"t":9700,"text":"and then after back put in on September at the"},{"t":9704,"text":"September 3rd. Committee of the whole. Thank You very much"},{"t":9710,"text":"for that. On it's on September 3rd. Sure. And then."},{"t":9723,"text":"Delete the rest of it. Now Councillor Loughton my reading"},{"t":9730,"text":"of that is that Empowers Staff to begin the conversation."},{"t":9735,"text":"As much as they can in the next four weeks."},{"t":9738,"text":"And report back on the progress of that and the"},{"t":9740,"text":"issues inherent in the work. At our next Committee of"},{"t":9744,"text":"the whole meeting Sure The only through you mayor. The"},{"t":9750,"text":"only thing is I just wanted it to be clear"},{"t":9751,"text":"that if BC housing is open to this that some"},{"t":9755,"text":"of the work could start that We don't you don't"},{"t":9757,"text":"need council You don't need to come back to council"},{"t":9761,"text":"start the work Council, but I think that the staff"},{"t":9764,"text":"that are working currently on the community safety well -"},{"t":9766,"text":"being a partnerships division would be very able to make"},{"t":9769,"text":"that determination Okay. If there was an opportunity that arose"},{"t":9773,"text":"before September I can't imagine they're not going to take"},{"t":9775,"text":"it Okay. Then that works for me And if I"},{"t":9778,"text":"may if I could just add a let's just clarify"},{"t":9780,"text":"so we know what we're discussing So yes the underlined"},{"t":9783,"text":"pieces would be the amendment to the amendment. The not"},{"t":9787,"text":"underlined bold pieces are the original amendment. And everything after"},{"t":9791,"text":"the word committee of the whole is actually deleted. Just"},{"t":9796,"text":"so we're clear. So we don't just understand what we're"},{"t":9801,"text":"doing Very good So that would be struck through I"},{"t":9804,"text":"believe is the way you do that. You're going to"},{"t":9807,"text":"strike it through not underline it There you go Perfect"},{"t":9809,"text":"So what we're now discussing is the amendment to the"},{"t":9811,"text":"amendment. That is to strike out all that you can"},{"t":9814,"text":"see struck through and to replace it with a bolded"},{"t":9817,"text":"language That's underlined. On that Councillor Latin. I'll make that"},{"t":9823,"text":"amendment to the amendment actually Is there a second here"},{"t":9825,"text":"for that? Yeah Councillor Lowell second that And so I"},{"t":9828,"text":"think I've explained in trying to Word Smith at why"},{"t":9830,"text":"I think that addresses the issues that you raised Uh"},{"t":9833,"text":"as the secondary. Through you mayor Yeah I just think"},{"t":9838,"text":"that makes it more clear for staff It gives them"},{"t":9845,"text":"direction that makes a lot more sense What the next"},{"t":9848,"text":"step is. I had. The report back monthly isn't that"},{"t":9855,"text":"important That I just wanted to see numbers every month"},{"t":9859,"text":"Like what's happening But we can leave that for now"},{"t":9861,"text":"I think we need to just get the nuts and"},{"t":9864,"text":"bolts of this Figured Out and again This just gives"},{"t":9867,"text":"staff clear direction on what their next step is So"},{"t":9871,"text":"I'm happy to support it So just on the amendment"},{"t":9873,"text":"to the amendment That is deleting what struck through and"},{"t":9877,"text":"replacing it essentially with the bold language as underlined Anything"},{"t":9881,"text":"else on that Councillor Kim. Um Thank you Does this"},{"t":9886,"text":"still leave open the door even if it's not stated"},{"t":9889,"text":"explicitly to have conversations with community and government partners as"},{"t":9893,"text":"needed? Yes. Yeah I believe it does yes. Is that"},{"t":9899,"text":"staff's understanding. Mr. Renticci Do you understand the intent of"},{"t":9903,"text":"this amendment to the amendment. Which is essentially to give"},{"t":9906,"text":"you the authority to discuss the preliminary issues with BC"},{"t":9909,"text":"housing. And to proceed as you think the opportunity presents."},{"t":9926,"text":"Sorry I'm just to... Absolutely No, it's complex Yes take"},{"t":9929,"text":"your time. Actually you know what I'm going to suggest"},{"t":9938,"text":"It is 12 noon. And this is complex And I"},{"t":9942,"text":"would like to give staff the opportunity to muse on"},{"t":9945,"text":"this Because I think they've heard the intention behind this"},{"t":9947,"text":"conversation Uh... And I think it would be helpful to"},{"t":9950,"text":"allow them at least a little time to think about"},{"t":9954,"text":"What they understand is to mean and whether or not"},{"t":9956,"text":"this is the correct direction for that. So I'm going"},{"t":9959,"text":"to suggest we leave this here and pause and that"},{"t":9962,"text":"we break for lunch And that we come back at"},{"t":9964,"text":"1 o'clock to continue this particular item And then to"},{"t":9967,"text":"deal with the one other item that's on our Committee"},{"t":9969,"text":"agenda before we proceed on to Council. So let's break"},{"t":9972,"text":"for lunch now and we'll come back at 2 minutes"},{"t":9975,"text":"after 1 since it's 2 minutes after 12. Thank you"},{"t":9978,"text":"very much for your patience."},{"t":10012,"text":"E July 30th Victoria City Council Committee of the whole"},{"t":10015,"text":"meeting Before we broke for lunch we were considering multiple"},{"t":10019,"text":"amendments to item G4, a Council member motion establishing a"},{"t":10023,"text":"by name list for the City of Victoria It is"},{"t":10025,"text":"my understanding that over the lunch break as we had"},{"t":10027,"text":"hoped that there has been some discussion with staff and"},{"t":10029,"text":"with members of Council to propose what is likely to"},{"t":10032,"text":"be a more applicable, more apt amendment To enable that"},{"t":10038,"text":"amendment procedurally, we need to consider the first two amendments"},{"t":10041,"text":"before us the amendment to the amendment and the amendment"},{"t":10044,"text":"in order to make room for a further amendment and"},{"t":10047,"text":"thus I'm going to suggest to people that without further"},{"t":10050,"text":"ado I call the question on both the amendment to"},{"t":10053,"text":"the amendment will vote and then the amendment will vote"},{"t":10056,"text":"I would urge all of us to vote against both"},{"t":10060,"text":"of those amendments to make room for a further amendment"},{"t":10063,"text":"Which I believe will explain many of the issues that"},{"t":10065,"text":"we discussed before lunch. That is my suggestion Councillor Loten"},{"t":10070,"text":"technically you still have the floor and so do you"},{"t":10072,"text":"wish to say anything else before they call the question"},{"t":10074,"text":"on the amendment to the amendment. No, you don't. Hope"},{"t":10079,"text":"no one else does either and so I'm now going"},{"t":10081,"text":"to call the question on the bolded underlined language not"},{"t":10086,"text":"the language that's been struck through just the bolded underlined"},{"t":10089,"text":"language Which actually does include the structural language because we"},{"t":10091,"text":"deleted Please vote no all those in favor. In opposition."},{"t":10098,"text":"No, no in opposition. That is unanimous. So thank you,"},{"t":10102,"text":"staff, please delete the amendment to the amendment. I'm going"},{"t":10106,"text":"to do the same thing with the original amendment which"},{"t":10109,"text":"we'll take us right back to the beginning. As soon"},{"t":10113,"text":"as you hatch up to us Thank you very much"},{"t":10114,"text":"for your yeoman's work there. Very good. So now on"},{"t":10118,"text":"the original amendment, which is that one. All those in"},{"t":10124,"text":"favor. All those opposed that is unanimous. Thank you so"},{"t":10129,"text":"much So now we are back on the original motion"},{"t":10131,"text":"the original Council member motion just what Staff catch up"},{"t":10135,"text":"with us again. Thank you very much stuff for following"},{"t":10137,"text":"along. Once you get that cleaned up. And I think"},{"t":10143,"text":"you need to unbold everything and also take out the"},{"t":10148,"text":"strike through at the last bit as well. There you"},{"t":10153,"text":"go one more thing. Thank goodness we have able staff."},{"t":10161,"text":"One more thing perfect now Councillor Loughton I believe you"},{"t":10164,"text":"have an amendment. Part of me through you mayor. Yes,"},{"t":10170,"text":"I do and I'm just sending it over to ledge"},{"t":10174,"text":"services I I had sent one in and I just"},{"t":10176,"text":"had to make another little tweak So the one you're"},{"t":10180,"text":"gonna use is coming right now. If I recall correctly"},{"t":10183,"text":"you're gonna delete everything after the word two Yes So"},{"t":10188,"text":"that Council rocks F2 everything after that goes. Which can"},{"t":10191,"text":"be struck through yes, and then replaced with whatever it"},{"t":10194,"text":"is you just said And the language is coming right"},{"t":10197,"text":"now. There we go."},{"t":10210,"text":"And then magic new words."},{"t":10225,"text":"Very good. Is that what you intend Councillor Yes, it"},{"t":10229,"text":"is Mayor. Very good Is there a seconder for that?"},{"t":10233,"text":"Thank you Councillor Cardona Councillor Loughton, please now motivate on"},{"t":10236,"text":"your amendment Okay, thanks So we had started this conversation"},{"t":10242,"text":"before the lunch break and then I had a chance"},{"t":10245,"text":"to talk to staff over lunch and there is an"},{"t":10249,"text":"issue with being able to do this work without it"},{"t":10252,"text":"going through the HIFA system So it just makes a"},{"t":10256,"text":"lot more sense for us to have BC housing and"},{"t":10260,"text":"the CRD Let us know What's happening with HIFAS? Why"},{"t":10265,"text":"it's taking so long? What and what can be done"},{"t":10268,"text":"to accelerate its implementation so we can do the work"},{"t":10272,"text":"that we need to do around By name data And"},{"t":10277,"text":"then just to have staff Uh, bring this back to"},{"t":10279,"text":"us at the September 3rd Committee of the whole. Thank"},{"t":10283,"text":"you very much for that Councillor Caridoni were seconding the"},{"t":10285,"text":"amendment on the amendment Yes I'm happy to support the"},{"t":10289,"text":"amendment and I'll just maybe because I haven't had a"},{"t":10291,"text":"chance to speak to it globally yet I maybe I'll"},{"t":10293,"text":"just say a couple things Which is that this HIFIS"},{"t":10297,"text":"has been stuck for forever. For like decades since before"},{"t":10301,"text":"I was around. And partly it's been stuck due to"},{"t":10304,"text":"bureaucratic ineptitude But partly it's been stuck because it is"},{"t":10308,"text":"complex and the data privacy and the servers and all"},{"t":10312,"text":"that is a major major barrier To my mind The"},{"t":10316,"text":"issue has been stuck with BC housing I don't think"},{"t":10319,"text":"it's fair to say that it's on CRD or The"},{"t":10325,"text":"coalition and homelessness actually was one of the community partners"},{"t":10327,"text":"that was supposed to be working on this as well"},{"t":10328,"text":"But they didn't get very far either It really has"},{"t":10331,"text":"to come from BC housing It is worth noting that"},{"t":10334,"text":"BC housing does have very well relatively complete data as"},{"t":10338,"text":"part of CAA They have databases They just don't share"},{"t":10342,"text":"that information And as a result It's chaos out there"},{"t":10344,"text":"So at the CRD when we're trying to tenant a"},{"t":10347,"text":"deep subsidy unit of which we now have hundreds Trying"},{"t":10351,"text":"to figure out who should go into those units is"},{"t":10353,"text":"complicated because there's not one database And so QUOLLADE has"},{"t":10357,"text":"its own database and solid has its own database And"},{"t":10360,"text":"Aboriginal coalition has it And it's just a total mess"},{"t":10362,"text":"out there So I think it would not only be"},{"t":10364,"text":"useful for the City of Victoria to have access to"},{"t":10367,"text":"this data And maybe even be able to upload data"},{"t":10369,"text":"to it I don't know Um, but also it'd be"},{"t":10372,"text":"very helpful for the CRD. Because It's impeding our ability"},{"t":10378,"text":"to flow people up through the system. This data blockage"},{"t":10381,"text":"So it's beyond time for this to get moving And"},{"t":10383,"text":"I would love to hear Some information eventually from staff"},{"t":10386,"text":"about what is going on and what we need to"},{"t":10388,"text":"do to get BC housing to finalise this work. Thank"},{"t":10392,"text":"you very much Anyone else on the amendment Councillor Kim."},{"t":10395,"text":"Um Thank you through the chair Uh really like where"},{"t":10399,"text":"this new language has landed Just want to ask staff"},{"t":10402,"text":"a question to address an earlier concern I had which"},{"t":10405,"text":"is around Privacy and who gets to access this data"},{"t":10409,"text":"Um... Could somebody speak to that please. Mr. Rennucci Do"},{"t":10414,"text":"you have any comments on that at this point. Through"},{"t":10421,"text":"the data on the Hypha system is restricted to those"},{"t":10426,"text":"service providers that have been provided to access through licensing"},{"t":10431,"text":"agreements. That's it Anyone else on the amendment. Not seeing"},{"t":10440,"text":"anyone further on the amendment All those in favor of"},{"t":10442,"text":"the amendment. Anyone opposed That is unanimous Thank you very"},{"t":10447,"text":"much Steph You can just clean it up And then"},{"t":10449,"text":"we will have an opportunity for anyone to make any"},{"t":10451,"text":"last comments on the main motion as amended. Oh lovely"},{"t":10456,"text":"picture. Councillor Coleman appears to be our photographer There you"},{"t":10463,"text":"go. Great So finally on the amended motion Any final"},{"t":10468,"text":"comments Councillor Gardner. Thank you I pulled this from the"},{"t":10472,"text":"consent file on purpose And that was because it needed"},{"t":10476,"text":"a lot of clarity. So I'm glad we've settled on"},{"t":10479,"text":"this one Thank you. Thank you very much Anybody else"},{"t":10483,"text":"Council Coleman. Thank you Ivrolpined in the past about how"},{"t":10487,"text":"much I don't like Council Member Motions. It's because I"},{"t":10492,"text":"don't think we understand them properly This is an acceptable"},{"t":10495,"text":"one It direct staff to get information and bring it"},{"t":10498,"text":"back to us. The previous motion Uh... Directed Staff to"},{"t":10502,"text":"set up a program. Um... And that was done without"},{"t":10506,"text":"any other workshop COM. Conversation What I saw over lunch"},{"t":10511,"text":"time was a workshop A mini workshop But I think"},{"t":10514,"text":"that it will force us Um... In the next term"},{"t":10518,"text":"of counsel To think about how we need standing committees"},{"t":10522,"text":"or workshops to front - end load Council member motions"},{"t":10526,"text":"Because I don't think we understand them properly But I"},{"t":10528,"text":"support this going forward Because I think it now actually"},{"t":10530,"text":"works. Thank you very much Anybody else. Yep Councillor COUR"},{"t":10537,"text":"Thanks and through you Mayor I just want to clarify"},{"t":10539,"text":"that the original motion was actually to work with BC"},{"t":10543,"text":"housing to see what was possible And this may very"},{"t":10546,"text":"well Have come back to us But we have a"},{"t":10550,"text":"crisis within a crisis happening on our streets right now"},{"t":10554,"text":"with The toxic drugs in like the metatomedine Which is"},{"t":10559,"text":"also coming as a motion right after this one. Um"},{"t":10565,"text":"What it's doing out there on our streets We don't"},{"t":10567,"text":"have time to wait for this This kind of work"},{"t":10570,"text":"needs to be happened Need needs to happen And because"},{"t":10574,"text":"this council member motion was brought forward Now it's been"},{"t":10577,"text":"turned into this And that's the kind of immediacy and"},{"t":10580,"text":"urgency That we owe to our residents and our constituents"},{"t":10584,"text":"in this city to work on the issue that is"},{"t":10586,"text":"the number one issue in our city And that is"},{"t":10590,"text":"the unsheltered homeless population Someone needs to do this work"},{"t":10595,"text":"and Council member motions absolutely have a place in that"},{"t":10599,"text":"So I too am happy where this landed because it'll"},{"t":10603,"text":"put some pressure on The hypha system to be delivered"},{"t":10607,"text":"And at least we'll have some updated information about what's"},{"t":10610,"text":"happening with it It is definitely The next step But"},{"t":10614,"text":"I won't stop working until my last day in this"},{"t":10618,"text":"chair To try to make a difference on what's going"},{"t":10621,"text":"on out there on our streets for everyone For the"},{"t":10624,"text":"homeless and addicted for the business owner that's pulling their"},{"t":10627,"text":"hair out over street disorder for residents specifically downtown who"},{"t":10632,"text":"are also having their mental health affected by this issue"},{"t":10635,"text":"This is for all of us And I believe it's"},{"t":10639,"text":"my job. And I'm again I'm happy we're at Landed"},{"t":10643,"text":"But I think that we owe it to our residents"},{"t":10646,"text":"to make sure that we're doing everything we possibly can"},{"t":10649,"text":"to make a difference. Thank you Thank you very much"},{"t":10653,"text":"Anybody else. Sounds a game Uh thank you through the"},{"t":10656,"text":"chair I would just like to state for the record"},{"t":10660,"text":"that this has landed where I think it needed to"},{"t":10663,"text":"Um Particularly around some of the concerns and criticisms that"},{"t":10667,"text":"were raised by the communities and touch with I really"},{"t":10670,"text":"appreciate that this has been re - scoped in a"},{"t":10672,"text":"way that I believe addresses those concerns And um, I"},{"t":10675,"text":"think it also speaks to the Democratic process we engaged"},{"t":10677,"text":"in and really grateful to the mover for keeping Attention"},{"t":10683,"text":"on this and I look forward to seeing what BC"},{"t":10685,"text":"housing and CRD. Might have to say. Thank you very"},{"t":10690,"text":"much anybody else. This might have been a bit of"},{"t":10694,"text":"a clunky process But it is the process that we"},{"t":10695,"text":"have And I thank everyone for being willing to work"},{"t":10698,"text":"through that Uh and to adhere as much as possible"},{"t":10701,"text":"to the procedures that we set in place that this"},{"t":10704,"text":"council has set in place Uh, building on previous many"},{"t":10706,"text":"years of building that procedures Uh, I think this is"},{"t":10710,"text":"the right place to land It advances the issue which"},{"t":10712,"text":"is critical as others have said Uh... But it also"},{"t":10715,"text":"places the responsibility and a shared capacity among various players"},{"t":10718,"text":"Which is exactly as it should be as well So"},{"t":10721,"text":"I'm happy to support this. Anybody else? Okay, all those"},{"t":10725,"text":"in paper. Anybody opposed. That appears to be unanimous Thank"},{"t":10729,"text":"you very much for that That does take us on"},{"t":10731,"text":"to our last item Uh... On the committee Agenda That"},{"t":10734,"text":"is as you will recall an item that was added"},{"t":10736,"text":"as a late item this morning G5 And this is"},{"t":10739,"text":"another Council Member Motion Also Pro - Councillor Loughton with"},{"t":10741,"text":"regard to an emergency response Uh... To the metatomadine crisis"},{"t":10745,"text":"Over you Councillor Loton to move the motion. Sure Thanks"},{"t":10750,"text":"a second And I'll look for a seconder. No it"},{"t":10753,"text":"was not on consent Uh it was proposed for consent"},{"t":10755,"text":"But it was in fact not agreed to for consent"},{"t":10758,"text":"Yeah I believe Councillor Hemmend I believe you were part"},{"t":10761,"text":"of this originally So we'll take you as a seconder"},{"t":10764,"text":"So Councillor Loughton Over to you. Okay Um I'm gonna"},{"t":10772,"text":"move it and I'll just note that I do also"},{"t":10773,"text":"have an amendment for it as well But to start"},{"t":10776,"text":"with The reason this is here today is because we"},{"t":10778,"text":"are off for five weeks And the situation on the"},{"t":10783,"text":"streets. Is Incredibly concerning with the amount of metatomidine in"},{"t":10789,"text":"the fentanyl drug supply. And the first responders police Um..."},{"t":10798,"text":"Relearned You know addictions doctors outreach workers It's affecting everyone"},{"t":10805,"text":"in our community Because of the sedation component of it"},{"t":10809,"text":"So we've been told this before from our staff That..."},{"t":10816,"text":"The Narcan works on the fentanyl component But it doesn't"},{"t":10820,"text":"work on the metatomadine component Which is a tranquilizer for"},{"t":10825,"text":"large animals It's not meant for human consumption So first"},{"t":10829,"text":"respondles will bring people back from overdose But the sedated"},{"t":10833,"text":"for many hours after that And they can be left"},{"t":10837,"text":"on the street In the heat and other things that"},{"t":10842,"text":"are dangerous for them... You know it can lead to"},{"t":10846,"text":"heat stroke Um... Nerve injuries They can make people more"},{"t":10850,"text":"vulnerable to being robbed or assaulted And that is not"},{"t":10855,"text":"good And on the flip side of it It is..."},{"t":10857,"text":"It is... Overtaxing our systems in a major way in"},{"t":10862,"text":"that... The amount of time it takes to get people"},{"t":10865,"text":"breathing properly again So our first responders and the police"},{"t":10869,"text":"department And bylaw or anyone who's out there... Working on"},{"t":10875,"text":"the street is also incredibly affected by this And it's"},{"t":10879,"text":"hard to get people into shelters It's hard to keep"},{"t":10881,"text":"people into housing And a member of the homeless community"},{"t":10888,"text":"I heard them say yesterday That it's just ripping their"},{"t":10891,"text":"community Apart So we don't have time to not react"},{"t":10895,"text":"to this So what this is is It's not meant"},{"t":10898,"text":"to be prescriptive Those two words such as Um... are"},{"t":10903,"text":"just ideas of what could possibly be done But what"},{"t":10907,"text":"the request is is for the mayor to reach out"},{"t":10909,"text":"to the premier Uh... Josie Osborne, the Minister of Health,"},{"t":10913,"text":"the Medical Health Officer and the Board and CEO of"},{"t":10916,"text":"Ireland Health... To request an emergency street - level response"},{"t":10920,"text":"And this three things listed there. Are What could possibly"},{"t":10925,"text":"happen, but it's not Um... The intention of this motion"},{"t":10930,"text":"to be... Prescriptive, because I'm sure the premier and the"},{"t":10935,"text":"Minister of Health and everyone else is already working on"},{"t":10937,"text":"this It's just to say We want to be part"},{"t":10940,"text":"of this And we want... Um... To move this forward"},{"t":10944,"text":"And again As I noted in the last motion It's"},{"t":10947,"text":"because it's affecting everyone And we need to take everyone"},{"t":10951,"text":"into consideration It's the people who are suffering on the"},{"t":10955,"text":"street But it's also... I mean we all know in"},{"t":10958,"text":"our inboxes There are certain hotspots You know Emilia and"},{"t":10963,"text":"Pandora That business owner is at their wits end 84"},{"t":10968,"text":"- 800 block of Johnson Millie's Lane Some more Uh"},{"t":10973,"text":"things around in the North Park Village in Cook Street"},{"t":10976,"text":"and the Business is There So we do... We have"},{"t":10979,"text":"to care for everyone in this And I also think"},{"t":10981,"text":"that we all need to come together around this They"},{"t":10985,"text":"you know Put down our differences around this issue And"},{"t":10988,"text":"recognise that this is a crisis within a crisis It's"},{"t":10992,"text":"not going to change. Something else is going to be"},{"t":10995,"text":"next after metatomidine And this is never going to move"},{"t":10999,"text":"in a better direction. And we all need to come"},{"t":11004,"text":"together and work on this together And that's why I"},{"t":11007,"text":"was very happy that... My colleague over there to the"},{"t":11011,"text":"right is the seconder of this Because he and I"},{"t":11016,"text":"have come out this issue from different points of view"},{"t":11020,"text":"almost all - term But now we're coming together to"},{"t":11022,"text":"say Hey You know what? Let's just get people... The"},{"t":11027,"text":"healthcare... And the support they need and the indoor spaces"},{"t":11031,"text":"so we can help make this better For everyone And"},{"t":11034,"text":"I think... That's an important thing And I hope that"},{"t":11038,"text":"people out there in the community See that and that"},{"t":11041,"text":"we can all sort of put our differences down and"},{"t":11044,"text":"come together and do the right thing For everybody involved"},{"t":11048,"text":"So we'll see what happens But that's my hope for"},{"t":11051,"text":"today And... I hope that... You know that Council will"},{"t":11057,"text":"move this forward And we can try to really make"},{"t":11059,"text":"a difference out there Thanks very much Councillor Hammond is"},{"t":11063,"text":"the sector. Thanks Mayor This all stemmed from discussions and"},{"t":11069,"text":"motivations from a few weeks ago In which my colleague"},{"t":11073,"text":"Um... Who was the initiator on this... had said at"},{"t":11077,"text":"the time Maybe we can come up with something together"},{"t":11080,"text":"And thanks to her She did all the lay work"},{"t":11084,"text":"on it Um... I'm not always as knowledgeable as she"},{"t":11087,"text":"is in this area But I remember during that discussion"},{"t":11090,"text":"There was not one person around this table Regardless of"},{"t":11093,"text":"where they came from or what they felt about that"},{"t":11095,"text":"particular vote Who didn't recognise the things that were already"},{"t":11098,"text":"said by the mover And that is that this is"},{"t":11102,"text":"a horrible situation that's happening people It has a horrible"},{"t":11105,"text":"effect on them It has a horrible effect on the"},{"t":11107,"text":"communities around them You know when... Just as you were"},{"t":11111,"text":"talking about And I've read about this You know this"},{"t":11115,"text":"animal tranquilizer You have to think who in their right"},{"t":11119,"text":"mind would take these things And of course the answer"},{"t":11122,"text":"is people aren't in the right mind When they take"},{"t":11124,"text":"these things There is clearly all kinds of issues that"},{"t":11127,"text":"are going on And when I've talked to people Across"},{"t":11130,"text":"the country. You know good parent or you are a"},{"t":11135,"text":"good parent You think you have stable upbringing for your"},{"t":11138,"text":"kids And in my extended family You know One of"},{"t":11144,"text":"the members of the family got into drugs Luckily He's"},{"t":11147,"text":"out of drugs There's other people that I know who"},{"t":11151,"text":"they're You know They can't pinpoint Why it is that"},{"t":11154,"text":"their kids ended up doing this I remember going door"},{"t":11157,"text":"to door or a couple elections ago Not for here"},{"t":11159,"text":"But for a federal election Meeting this doctor and this"},{"t":11162,"text":"really nice home And he talked about how he was"},{"t":11165,"text":"16 - year - old Um, died from drug overdose"},{"t":11169,"text":"And so you can imagine all the privileges that have"},{"t":11172,"text":"been given to him And it just doesn't matter Well"},{"t":11174,"text":"It matters somewhat But it's just so horrendous Where people"},{"t":11178,"text":"get to the state So when people are saying to"},{"t":11180,"text":"us You got to do something And the's outside of"},{"t":11183,"text":"our jurisdiction At the very least What is it we"},{"t":11185,"text":"can do? And if in this particular case We can"},{"t":11187,"text":"be advocating For more supports And also to help people"},{"t":11193,"text":"remove themselves Um... From the horrors that are going on."},{"t":11197,"text":"I was happy to support this. Thank you very much."},{"t":11201,"text":"Anybody else. Closer Kim. Um. Thank you Uh If I"},{"t":11210,"text":"may question to the mover Um... There's no mention of"},{"t":11216,"text":"safe supply here Is there a way that... I don't"},{"t":11221,"text":"want to take over this motion Is that something you'd"},{"t":11224,"text":"be comfortable with moving as your amendment? Through you Mayor"},{"t":11227,"text":"I actually just sent an amendment over to ledge services"},{"t":11229,"text":"So that's coming. Um... Hang on Let's just let give"},{"t":11237,"text":"her a minute. Councillor Kim Do you wish to seed"},{"t":11241,"text":"your speaking order to the mover. Yes. Very good. Councillor"},{"t":11249,"text":"Do you intend to provide a minimum? I do I've"},{"t":11253,"text":"sent it over to legislative service It's a new number"},{"t":11256,"text":"two. Just"},{"t":11266,"text":"let people have a minute to read that."},{"t":11281,"text":"I Presume when you use the phrase Long - term"},{"t":11283,"text":"care You don't necessarily Imply the more conventional expectation or"},{"t":11289,"text":"stereotype of CARE for older people. You just mean longer"},{"t":11292,"text":"- term care. Mm - hmm Karen The longer term"},{"t":11295,"text":"That's fine Just as long as it's clear. Alright that"},{"t":11300,"text":"seems on its face self - evident Uh... There's a"},{"t":11304,"text":"secondary I believe Councillor Kim So Councillor Kim is very"},{"t":11307,"text":"graciously seated to floor to Councillor Lowton I did not"},{"t":11310,"text":"have another speaker before you So Councillor Lowton You may"},{"t":11312,"text":"move your... Yes, you've moved your amendment And the Councillor"},{"t":11316,"text":"Kimbass Iconed So over to you to motivate on your"},{"t":11318,"text":"amendment Thank you through you Mayor And I think part"},{"t":11320,"text":"of This was This should absolutely be in here And"},{"t":11324,"text":"I Again I did not want to be prescriptive Because"},{"t":11327,"text":"I don't I don't actually know the best way to"},{"t":11330,"text":"deal with the meatomedian crisis on the street That is..."},{"t":11333,"text":"Up to health care professionals So that's such as is"},{"t":11339,"text":"just These are just suggestions And Mayor You'll be the"},{"t":11342,"text":"one that's going to write the letter It should this"},{"t":11344,"text":"pass So You can put in it The information that"},{"t":11350,"text":"you feel is important And these will be those and"},{"t":11354,"text":"maybe the other things you add too I'm not I'm"},{"t":11356,"text":"not sure about that But this is a really important"},{"t":11360,"text":"piece of the puzzle Um... To be able to provide"},{"t":11364,"text":"alternatives to the toxic drug supply through safe supply It"},{"t":11369,"text":"does save lives And to get people connected with safer"},{"t":11372,"text":"supply. Will Very much help with toxic drugs Period No"},{"t":11379,"text":"matter what's next or What if metatomidines in it or"},{"t":11383,"text":"not This is just a way to help people Um..."},{"t":11389,"text":"Be safe. So yeah, that's it I just wanted to"},{"t":11394,"text":"add it And the reason I didn't have it in"},{"t":11397,"text":"to begin with is this is a late motion It"},{"t":11399,"text":"came kind of late I just wanted to make sure"},{"t":11401,"text":"that we were doing something around Advocacy for this before"},{"t":11406,"text":"we recess for August So that's My apologies for not"},{"t":11411,"text":"having something like this Into Begin with the motion now"},{"t":11414,"text":"Okay Councillor Kim on the amendment Council Council COUR Uh"},{"t":11417,"text":"Thank you through the chair Uh so pleased to see"},{"t":11420,"text":"this amendment here Uh particularly given that I just had"},{"t":11423,"text":"some conversations with some folks who do front line Um..."},{"t":11428,"text":"Work. And I heard a story Uh where this individual"},{"t":11433,"text":"shared If some of these The clients If they were"},{"t":11437,"text":"given a choice between heroin and heroin plus fentanyl They"},{"t":11442,"text":"would choose to get dope sick for two weeks in"},{"t":11444,"text":"order to get off heroin plus fentanyl and go back"},{"t":11447,"text":"to the lower impact Um, heroin alone So whatever's more"},{"t":11452,"text":"manageable really is what I took away from that And"},{"t":11455,"text":"so I think that Uh That there really trying to"},{"t":11459,"text":"do is offer folks another option For cleaner drugs Knowing"},{"t":11466,"text":"just as my colleagues have said that Um... Folks cannot"},{"t":11470,"text":"control These cravings, the substance use disorder And so... If"},{"t":11476,"text":"we can provide cleaner drugs It's the first step towards"},{"t":11480,"text":"Um... Whatever other forms of recovery Individuals might need... Uh..."},{"t":11484,"text":"Moreover I think it's worth highlighting that when we talk"},{"t":11487,"text":"about Um... The... The drug supply Um... When we offer"},{"t":11493,"text":"safe supply It's a bit of a misnomer to call"},{"t":11497,"text":"it Just safe supply It's also regulated And what this"},{"t":11501,"text":"motion is actually trying to do is address the problem"},{"t":11503,"text":"That has emerged from an unregulated drug market Um... And"},{"t":11508,"text":"so to have the government and the state Intervene Um..."},{"t":11513,"text":"In order to regulate... Substances that folks are ingesting is"},{"t":11517,"text":"Truly not unlike Um... What... Uh... Canada food... Um... Association"},{"t":11526,"text":"does to like make sure our food is safe or"},{"t":11529,"text":"any other Uh pharmaceuticals And so Um... I do think"},{"t":11532,"text":"that this is a very reasonable Um... Step forward Um,"},{"t":11536,"text":"and I would also like to point out that This"},{"t":11539,"text":"is something that... Bonnie Henry has been Bang in the"},{"t":11543,"text":"drama about for years And... I mean that's a medical"},{"t":11547,"text":"expert We all relied on to get through a pandemic."},{"t":11549,"text":"So why not continue relying on a medical expert? Thanks."},{"t":11553,"text":"Thank you very much On the amendment Count your gardener."},{"t":11558,"text":"Thank you As you know a couple weeks ago I"},{"t":11560,"text":"suggested that the Harbour transform And you prescribed drugs only"},{"t":11567,"text":"rather than illicit drugs So when I look at this"},{"t":11570,"text":"motion Uh There's any definition of included prescribes safer supply"},{"t":11575,"text":"I'm interpreting that to be Um... As I've just been"},{"t":11578,"text":"mentioned drugs that Uh... Approved by health Canada. And the"},{"t":11582,"text":"prescription Um... I would hope was just not mean going"},{"t":11586,"text":"back to what we had When the BC government ruled"},{"t":11590,"text":"out their safer supplies Prescriptions that could be used anywhere"},{"t":11593,"text":"So I'm going to support this assuming Hopefully That it"},{"t":11598,"text":"means the prescribed CFA supply But at supervised locations such"},{"t":11605,"text":"as a transformed Harbour COUR Thank you very much Anybody"},{"t":11609,"text":"else on the amendment. Just on the amendment Um... I"},{"t":11617,"text":"would presume Uh... The inclusion of the word prescribed... Provides..."},{"t":11623,"text":"A significant number of guardrails That would require Uh... The..."},{"t":11628,"text":"The existing regulations established by the province to be. The"},{"t":11631,"text":"guidelines of the application of number two. I'm not sure"},{"t":11636,"text":"that isn't Counterintuitive to what I understand to be the"},{"t":11638,"text":"intent behind this Nevertheless I appreciate the effort at providing"},{"t":11643,"text":"a middle ground. Uh... So that it has the capacity"},{"t":11646,"text":"to receive I think I hope... Uh... Complete support. So"},{"t":11655,"text":"on that Uh... Number two The amendment any further comments."},{"t":11660,"text":"All those in favor. Anybody opposed. The amendment is adopted"},{"t":11666,"text":"Uh now comes by the grace of your colleague Councillor"},{"t":11668,"text":"Colloten You still have the floor. COUR I'm finished I'll"},{"t":11675,"text":"let other people comment or ask questions Thank you very"},{"t":11677,"text":"much On the now amended motion Any other coster Kim"},{"t":11680,"text":"Thanks. Well I think you spoke to soon Mayer Because"},{"t":11685,"text":"my amendment is to remove the word prescribed That's okay."},{"t":11688,"text":"So there's an amendment to remove the word prescribed Uh..."},{"t":11691,"text":"Is her secondary for that. Councillor Dell is seconding that"},{"t":11697,"text":"I suspect for discussion Go ahead Councillor Kim. Uh Thank"},{"t":11700,"text":"you And thank you to my colleague for Seconding This"},{"t":11703,"text":"Again In my conversations with organisations who do this work"},{"t":11707,"text":"It was apparent that part of the bottleneck Is that..."},{"t":11711,"text":"Well actually we do actually allow for the prescription of"},{"t":11714,"text":"regulated For drugs Um a real bottleneck here is actually"},{"t":11721,"text":"in the ability to prescribe enough Um... And four enough"},{"t":11725,"text":"people And so for me removing the word prescribe Is"},{"t":11729,"text":"actually what helps the positive flow of a safer supply"},{"t":11733,"text":"to the population that needs it So that we can"},{"t":11736,"text":"do the public health piece on mass with this population"},{"t":11739,"text":"in need Um... Moreover Uh I would point to... The"},{"t":11745,"text":"ongoing trial with the drug use Liberation front in Vancouver"},{"t":11748,"text":"Where it is becoming Um... Scrutinized that by not offering"},{"t":11753,"text":"Uh... SAFA Supply without prescription We are in deep Potentially"},{"t":11757,"text":"violating Uh human rights, charter rights for people Um... Maintain..."},{"t":11764,"text":"Life, liberty, health and all these things So I would"},{"t":11766,"text":"rather we err on the side of Um... What truly"},{"t":11771,"text":"does serve. The most people. Thank you very much Councillor"},{"t":11775,"text":"Dell is the seconder. Anything to add Anyone else Cluster"},{"t":11779,"text":"Garder. Toff or to anyone So what is safer supply"},{"t":11783,"text":"If it's not prescribed. I Don't know that staff would"},{"t":11788,"text":"necessarily be the ones to have a particular material expertise"},{"t":11791,"text":"on that But I would suspect that it is by"},{"t":11793,"text":"the explanation of the mover of the amendment It would"},{"t":11796,"text":"be drugs that were safer That were not necessarily prescribed"},{"t":11799,"text":"So available through a non - prescription means Whatever that"},{"t":11802,"text":"might be. I don't understand that. So what would make"},{"t":11807,"text":"it safer than illicit drugs? Is this include illicit drugs."},{"t":11811,"text":"I suspect that would be the case From the mover's"},{"t":11814,"text":"perspective It would be any drug that could be considered"},{"t":11816,"text":"Quote safer That wasn't necessarily bound by a prescription. It's"},{"t":11820,"text":"like - Okay So if it's not If it's illicit"},{"t":11822,"text":"drugs How does one determine if it's a saper supply?"},{"t":11826,"text":"And it's a very lengthy conversation Councillor Gardner And would"},{"t":11829,"text":"require some hours I suspect a debate. COVID Maybe that's"},{"t":11832,"text":"what this motion is. This amended I believe from the"},{"t":11835,"text":"mover's perspective That there is a way to have a"},{"t":11837,"text":"CAFER drug supply Which doesn't necessarily require a prescription from"},{"t":11841,"text":"a medical professional. So this... The definition I'm hearing right"},{"t":11848,"text":"now SIS means Continuation of and support of illicit drugs"},{"t":11853,"text":"Is that correct? It could, yes C Thank you Yes."},{"t":11857,"text":"Anybody else Councillor Kim. Sorry Councillor Kimme You have spoken"},{"t":11861,"text":"was I'll come back to you Councillor Thompson You haven't"},{"t":11863,"text":"spoken on this one Yeah. Um Yeah I was just"},{"t":11866,"text":"going to offer that Um... We're not making any definitions"},{"t":11870,"text":"here That that would be entirely up to all the"},{"t":11873,"text":"people that were writing to Um... And if they chose"},{"t":11877,"text":"to say Oh, it's only prescribed That's up to them"},{"t":11880,"text":"If they wanted to say It could include retail drugs"},{"t":11884,"text":"like cannabis and alcohol I'd be up to them. If"},{"t":11888,"text":"they have any other drugs in mind That'd be up"},{"t":11890,"text":"to them. Thanks. Anyone else who hasn't yet spoken on"},{"t":11894,"text":"this No concert came back to you Uh Thank you"},{"t":11897,"text":"through the chair Um Yeah the other piece around safer"},{"t":11901,"text":"supply That gets not talked about enough is that Um..."},{"t":11904,"text":"Part of regulating it and making it the safe supplie"},{"t":11907,"text":"Is that there would be government oversight of the production"},{"t":11911,"text":"of this Uh... The drug Um... So to me The"},{"t":11916,"text":"question of what is Ilicit or licit Uh... In other"},{"t":11920,"text":"words What is legal or not legal Um... Is admittedly"},{"t":11923,"text":"kind of moot Uh... In the sense that it is"},{"t":11925,"text":"the government, i. e. the lawmaking Uh... of our society"},{"t":11931,"text":"Um... Understanding that That there is a broader need here"},{"t":11935,"text":"And so to provide and work with manufacturers In order"},{"t":11939,"text":"to create this. What we have encountered thus far again"},{"t":11945,"text":"As we're seeing with the DULF case Is that folks"},{"t":11949,"text":"who wanted to offer a CAFR supply up until now?"},{"t":11952,"text":"Have had to go to illicit means in the black"},{"t":11955,"text":"market Again, because the government was not stepping in to"},{"t":11958,"text":"provide the clean Regulated supply And so... Um... This discussion"},{"t":11962,"text":"of moving the word prescribed is more so about The"},{"t":11967,"text":"quality of the product And whether or not it's illicit"},{"t":11971,"text":"or illicit is again moot Um... There are so many"},{"t":11975,"text":"examples of governments who suspend their own rules and laws"},{"t":11978,"text":"To make things happen for people Um... And states of"},{"t":11981,"text":"exception And frankly If we were going to engage in"},{"t":11984,"text":"a conversation about What is legal or not? Um... I"},{"t":11988,"text":"Would I welcome that conversation in the correct time and"},{"t":11991,"text":"place So that we can discuss the merits of public"},{"t":11994,"text":"health. As a superseding need Thank you. Thank you very"},{"t":11998,"text":"much Anybody else on the amendment Councillor Coleman. Thank you"},{"t":12002,"text":"And through you a question to staff I think. Um..."},{"t":12006,"text":"We are writing a letter to a group of people"},{"t":12008,"text":"who have already made some specifics about safer supply or"},{"t":12014,"text":"safe supply Um... Two staff Does the pulling out of"},{"t":12019,"text":"the word prescribed... Would you expect that this might. Get"},{"t":12027,"text":"the... The receivers of the Notion to just drop it"},{"t":12030,"text":"as an issue that they want to respond to. Notre"},{"t":12035,"text":"It's fair to put that to staff given that the"},{"t":12037,"text":"recommendation is for the mayor to write But I'm certainly"},{"t":12040,"text":"always open to staff providing comment If should they choose"},{"t":12043,"text":"to do so? I suspect that we'd turn first to"},{"t":12046,"text":"Mr. Rennucci And then perhaps to Ms. Webb. Perhaps even"},{"t":12050,"text":"to Ms. Jones If she wins her way in But"},{"t":12052,"text":"None of you should feel compelled to do so. Not"},{"t":12056,"text":"asserting a particular expertise in any of these factors. Do"},{"t":12059,"text":"any of you wish to comment. And trust me I"},{"t":12064,"text":"truly believe that you do not have an obligation to"},{"t":12065,"text":"do so. Okay I'm gonna move on. That's... That's fine"},{"t":12072,"text":"I mean The problem is we are writing... A letter"},{"t":12076,"text":"to a group of people and saying You we would"},{"t":12078,"text":"like a response. And he respond to things such as"},{"t":12082,"text":"And we added number two in And now we're carving"},{"t":12086,"text":"away from what number two was I think... If we"},{"t":12089,"text":"want those different Members of provincial government and medical health"},{"t":12095,"text":"officers to respond The more we start narrowing it The"},{"t":12099,"text":"more they may just choose to ignore it And not"},{"t":12102,"text":"respond to it at all. So I'm not sure that"},{"t":12105,"text":"I agree with taking prescribed out Because I think that"},{"t":12107,"text":"that gives some safety to them. Thank you very much"},{"t":12110,"text":"Anybody else on the amendment. Just gonna check if anyone"},{"t":12114,"text":"who's not yet spoken needs to do so. Go ahead"},{"t":12117,"text":"Council Kim. Um. Mayor I look to you Uh... Is"},{"t":12125,"text":"there a way to do an amendment to the amendment"},{"t":12127,"text":"Where we would delete that Uh... Dependent clause Including prescribed"},{"t":12132,"text":"safer supply In order to maintain a reasonable scope of"},{"t":12135,"text":"this letter Um... But also in some way Mention safe"},{"t":12139,"text":"supply. If you're asking my opinion I think that from"},{"t":12144,"text":"a drafting perspective You're asking for virtually impossible If you"},{"t":12148,"text":"wanted to actually... What you could do if you wanted"},{"t":12150,"text":"to have it more general and appeal to the broadest"},{"t":12152,"text":"audience You'd simply Uh... Sentence after methods. And rely on"},{"t":12158,"text":"evidence - based health care methods Which would by all"},{"t":12161,"text":"experts account include all of the four things that you've"},{"t":12163,"text":"included as examples. But not necessarily be limited to those"},{"t":12168,"text":"Um... You know I think I will then do an"},{"t":12170,"text":"amendment to the amendment And just scrap everything after the"},{"t":12174,"text":"word methods Alright That's perfectly in order So an amendment"},{"t":12178,"text":"to the amendment would be to delete Uh... Everything from"},{"t":12181,"text":"including Right to the end of that sentence And number"},{"t":12183,"text":"two. There you go. So that would"},{"t":12193,"text":"be in a minute to the amendment Is your second"},{"t":12195,"text":"year for that? Constar Thompson is seconding that Councillor Kim"},{"t":12198,"text":"on your amendment to the amendment. Um... Yeah Thanks Thank"},{"t":12201,"text":"you to my colleague for raising a good point Um..."},{"t":12204,"text":"And... You know as much as I would love to"},{"t":12207,"text":"see the language about say for supply in here Um..."},{"t":12210,"text":"I would also really like a response from the government"},{"t":12213,"text":"Um... That gives us more to work with moving forward"},{"t":12216,"text":"Including potentially pushing for safest supply Um, I Seed ground"},{"t":12222,"text":"where it needs to be so We can lift a"},{"t":12224,"text":"fight another day Literally and figuratively. Thank you Councillor Kim"},{"t":12228,"text":"Councillor Thompson You second day that anything to add? Um"},{"t":12231,"text":"Just that I think that You know listing evidence -"},{"t":12234,"text":"based healthcare methods is a really important part of this"},{"t":12237,"text":"whole motion Um... And... More specifically about the deletion They're"},{"t":12242,"text":"the amendment to the amendment Uh... This kind of more"},{"t":12245,"text":"highlights that language. Thanks very much. Anybody else on the"},{"t":12249,"text":"amendment to the amendment That's to delete everything after the"},{"t":12251,"text":"word methods. Councillor Lot CRU Mayor I appreciate the mover"},{"t":12258,"text":"Um... Offering this amendment Because I do think The intention"},{"t":12263,"text":"here is to have the province Act... And the other"},{"t":12269,"text":"piece of this is that I want as many Victorians"},{"t":12272,"text":"as possible to get behind This And by making things"},{"t":12276,"text":"a little bit more general and balanced I think that"},{"t":12280,"text":"we will get the outcome That is intended here Thanks."},{"t":12285,"text":"Thank you very much Anybody else on the amendment to"},{"t":12288,"text":"the amendment. Let's delete everything after the word's methods. Uh..."},{"t":12293,"text":"I will just briefly say I do appreciate the movers"},{"t":12298,"text":"willingness to. Fairly loaded word to dilute to the original"},{"t":12305,"text":"amendment. Uh... By... By allowing there to be latitude in"},{"t":12309,"text":"whatever the recipient of this letter may determine is an"},{"t":12312,"text":"evidence - based health care method. That being said An"},{"t":12317,"text":"earlier comment was made that the proposal to include CAFER"},{"t":12323,"text":"supply in a variety A menu of different ways of"},{"t":12326,"text":"responding to the over - to - Oyst crisis Uh..."},{"t":12329,"text":"Would have included reference to CAFRE supply by the Eminent"},{"t":12334,"text":"Dr. Henry and others including our previous corner British Columbia"},{"t":12337,"text":"Corner And so I would have supported the removal prescribed"},{"t":12343,"text":"But having said that Uh, I do appreciate that this"},{"t":12347,"text":"is perhaps Uh... A more acceptable proposal and certainly does"},{"t":12351,"text":"allow the provincial government to respond as it sees fit"},{"t":12354,"text":"And perhaps we'll encourage them to give a more thoughtful"},{"t":12356,"text":"and substantive response Uh... Then they might otherwise have done."},{"t":12360,"text":"So I will support this. With that then all those"},{"t":12364,"text":"in favor of the amendment Unto the amendment. C And"},{"t":12368,"text":"when you posed That would be unanimous Okay, so we'll"},{"t":12371,"text":"just let staff clean that up. And see where we're"},{"t":12376,"text":"based there. Facebook I believe we've actually dealt with the"},{"t":12383,"text":"amendment by doing that amendment to the amendment. Or maybe"},{"t":12387,"text":"not We'll see what they do. Very good Excellent Thank"},{"t":12392,"text":"you. Uh - oh Prescribed in there Okay there you"},{"t":12396,"text":"go There you go Uh So no We are back"},{"t":12399,"text":"on Uh actually I'm sorry I'm just lost the track"},{"t":12403,"text":"of that The amendment that's there Which is number two"},{"t":12405,"text":"Uh I believe we've already dealt with number two No"},{"t":12407,"text":"we haven't We were amending it So we still have"},{"t":12408,"text":"dealer with number two is an amendment Uh And that"},{"t":12411,"text":"was originally I believe done by Um... Anything else to"},{"t":12416,"text":"add. Oh Anybody else on number two. Is it was"},{"t":12420,"text":"her... Whoa Wait. Hang on. Let's get back to there."},{"t":12425,"text":"There you go Thank you very much So now we're"},{"t":12427,"text":"just dealing with what was the original amendment Which is"},{"t":12430,"text":"the addition of number two As it has now been"},{"t":12431,"text":"amended So everybody Okay with number two. This is just"},{"t":12436,"text":"adding evidence - based health care methods That's all it"},{"t":12438,"text":"is. That's it. Okay All those in favor of number"},{"t":12441,"text":"two. Anybody opposed. That is unanimous So now back on"},{"t":12447,"text":"the main motion Uh... Which I now have Uh... Lacking"},{"t":12451,"text":"anything further from Council Loot And I don't think so"},{"t":12453,"text":"Up next is Councillor Thompson. And then we'll come back"},{"t":12456,"text":"to Council Call Councillor Thompson On the main motion. COURU"},{"t":12462,"text":"Yeah. Thanks Mayor Yeah I've been hearing updates on Metatomedine"},{"t":12467,"text":"since 2025 And it's in the Drug Supply It's very"},{"t":12471,"text":"unpredictable It can kill It doesn't respond to Narcan Naloxone"},{"t":12476,"text":"Um... It's part of a very fast evolving drug mix"},{"t":12479,"text":"And it's not the only one Uh... We're hearing about"},{"t":12482,"text":"Uh... Benzos Nitizens Uh... And in other places Chlorophine another"},{"t":12487,"text":"Orphines Um... And many others who that I probably can't"},{"t":12491,"text":"pronounce. Um... Just wondering if Mayor When you're writing the"},{"t":12496,"text":"letter You see a reason to limit yourself to only"},{"t":12499,"text":"mentioning Metatomadine Or if you might also mention other things."},{"t":12505,"text":"I think that would actually be a question Posed more"},{"t":12507,"text":"properly to the mover Uh... If you're asking my opinion"},{"t":12510,"text":"Um... I heard the Bubers motivation to be very specific"},{"t":12514,"text":"to this for very specific reasons Grant your comments are"},{"t":12518,"text":"absolutely true Uh... But whether or not that is something"},{"t":12521,"text":"that the mover wants to add in would be up"},{"t":12523,"text":"to the mover I think. It does It does... Again"},{"t":12528,"text":"Operating opinion It does change the possibilities of a response"},{"t":12533,"text":"Insofar as it broadens it quite substantially for all of"},{"t":12536,"text":"the reasons that you've identified If the movers intent originally"},{"t":12540,"text":"was to deal specifically with this particular disaster. Then I"},{"t":12544,"text":"think I would leave it alone I'm I'm interested in"},{"t":12547,"text":"hearing the movers And I probably won't push it I"},{"t":12550,"text":"mean there's always time for other motions as well. Councillor"},{"t":12553,"text":"Loten You again this conversation Through you Mayor I think"},{"t":12556,"text":"that the issue that we're dealing with right now on"},{"t":12559,"text":"the street is metatomedine And I'd prefer not to water"},{"t":12562,"text":"this down I'd rather have it That it's watered down"},{"t":12566,"text":"is not the right term Actually I understand where The"},{"t":12571,"text":"question is coming from and I agree with it But"},{"t":12573,"text":"for this particular point in time I think we need"},{"t":12577,"text":"to focus on this If we need to bring another"},{"t":12579,"text":"motion in September I almost said New Year in September"},{"t":12584,"text":"Um so be it But for right now That's what's"},{"t":12589,"text":"causing all of the trauma and just Chaos on the"},{"t":12597,"text":"street right now As I've mentioned It's like a crisis"},{"t":12600,"text":"inside of a crisis And you know it's affecting the"},{"t":12604,"text":"systems And I think we just need to focus on"},{"t":12605,"text":"that Um Because this is asking for a response Specifically"},{"t":12609,"text":"to that right now. Thank you Council Nothing further Councillor"},{"t":12614,"text":"Kim. Um Thank you Uh. Through the chair Uh question"},{"t":12622,"text":"to The mover if they're willing to answer Um. What"},{"t":12628,"text":"is meant by Um... Medical Information Interventions That do not"},{"t":12633,"text":"negatively impact neighbourhoods. Council Logan. COUR Through you"},{"t":12643,"text":"Mayor It's just. To Make sure that there is some"},{"t":12649,"text":"kind of. System in place Whether that be Um... Extra"},{"t":12659,"text":"funding for outreach or for street ambassadors Or that kind"},{"t":12663,"text":"of thing To make sure that around the perimeter of"},{"t":12666,"text":"these locations Um... The public isn't complaining And I know"},{"t":12675,"text":"that for some people That might seem like. Another in"},{"t":12679,"text":"my backyard approach But the reality is these things are"},{"t":12682,"text":"always considered When new services go in So it is"},{"t":12690,"text":"to preempt. Um... Try to put some sort of."},{"t":12703,"text":"Resources towards making sure that the area around the location."},{"t":12712,"text":"Is taken care of And you know I've talked about"},{"t":12714,"text":"this a lot at this table I'll term And it"},{"t":12717,"text":"was one thing with the village in Duncan When they"},{"t":12719,"text":"did that kind of work within 150 metre radius of"},{"t":12722,"text":"their site It's that kind of thing And we did"},{"t":12726,"text":"And as the cosigner of this motion mentioned Like this"},{"t":12730,"text":"did come out of the discussion with the motion. To"},{"t":12734,"text":"Potentially Advocate to close the harbour. And what my point"},{"t":12740,"text":"of view on that is is It's not what happens"},{"t":12742,"text":"inside the harbour It's what happens outside the harbour So"},{"t":12747,"text":"let's think of about that Before we move into creating"},{"t":12751,"text":"other spaces where this is going to happen so that"},{"t":12753,"text":"we don't have those problems And it doesn't Um prohibit"},{"t":12760,"text":"creating the services that are required for people. In many"},{"t":12764,"text":"ways In my opinion Public backlash is a deterrent to"},{"t":12770,"text":"services It's the biggest thing I personally face at this"},{"t":12774,"text":"table Council Loaten You are viewing far off the mark"},{"t":12778,"text":"Okay well I'm just trying to explain why it's in"},{"t":12780,"text":"there Oh for my time or no I'm just trying"},{"t":12782,"text":"to explain why that's in there Um, why they do"},{"t":12786,"text":"not negatively impact neighbourhood comment is in there. So I"},{"t":12791,"text":"appreciate that Councillor Kim. Uh Thank you for that intervention"},{"t":12801,"text":"Um to me that Uh. Understand why this language that"},{"t":12806,"text":"I hope the mover understands why it can be seen"},{"t":12809,"text":"as stigmatizing Um, is could be interpreted that way But"},{"t":12813,"text":"I understand The intention And so I ask you mayor"},{"t":12818,"text":"If do you also similarly understand the intention of that"},{"t":12821,"text":"as this letter gets written Um, similarly try to avoid"},{"t":12825,"text":"stigmatize and language while also doing that sort of community"},{"t":12829,"text":"groundwork Um, for the soft landing of these services Thank"},{"t":12832,"text":"you Yes, I do Just to clarify Uh Councillor Lowden"},{"t":12836,"text":"I didn't intervene because you'd run out of time Your"},{"t":12839,"text":"answers do not count towards your time. You were very"},{"t":12841,"text":"much clearly almost out of time in your commentary But"},{"t":12844,"text":"given the time and the length of time of your"},{"t":12846,"text":"response That's why intervene. Just because you'd been going on"},{"t":12850,"text":"for some time. Uh, that being said Any other comments"},{"t":12854,"text":"on this now amended motion. Councillor Gardner. Thank you. Although"},{"t":12860,"text":"I had nothing to do with a with the Control"},{"t":12863,"text":"Substances Act I was a gauge editored officer under the"},{"t":12866,"text":"Food and Drug Act for many years It was my"},{"t":12868,"text":"first career And of course when we look at Uh,"},{"t":12871,"text":"some of what's been discussed today Kind of going to"},{"t":12875,"text":"manufacturers Et cetera drug approvals take anywhere from 5 to"},{"t":12878,"text":"30 years. And so I think and way beyond the"},{"t":12882,"text":"reach Of course of this council I think we have"},{"t":12884,"text":"to deal with the realities where we are today And"},{"t":12887,"text":"the problems we have today. Now again I Will approve"},{"t":12892,"text":"this as soon as I vote for this And again"},{"t":12894,"text":"I'm looking at not illicit drug use And this in"},{"t":12897,"text":"my mind So far does not look like an expansion"},{"t":12900,"text":"of that. So supported under that understanding. Thank you very"},{"t":12904,"text":"much Anyone else How's your Coleman. Thank you Having opined"},{"t":12909,"text":"earlier about How Council Member Motions can be used inappropriately"},{"t":12913,"text":"I think this is inappropriate An appropriate use It is"},{"t":12918,"text":"an advocacy piece for the mayor to right to a"},{"t":12923,"text":"number of different people. And share the extreme trauma that"},{"t":12927,"text":"we're sealing on our streets And is being felt by"},{"t":12931,"text":"the full spectrum of our population So I think that"},{"t":12934,"text":"this is absolutely the correct way to go forward. Thank"},{"t":12937,"text":"you so much. Anyone else. Not saying anyone else Uh"},{"t":12945,"text":"this is indeed entirely appropriate to bring this to the"},{"t":12948,"text":"attention of those folks who have the most direct ability"},{"t":12951,"text":"and authority to respond And so I think the mover"},{"t":12955,"text":"and seconder and all the commentators on this for bringing"},{"t":12958,"text":"us to this point. That being said all those in"},{"t":12961,"text":"favor. Does anyone opposed. That is unanimous Thank you very"},{"t":12966,"text":"much for that colleagues We do know to have that"},{"t":12969,"text":"does retire actually all of the Council Member motions and"},{"t":12972,"text":"new business that we had at a committee We do"},{"t":12973,"text":"not have any need for a closed aspect of our"},{"t":12976,"text":"Committee Agenda today So I would look for motion to"},{"t":12977,"text":"adjourn. Thanks Councillor Coleman Second Black Council Cam All those"},{"t":12981,"text":"in favor Any would opposed as unanimous Folks We have"},{"t":12984,"text":"mid - sitting that long So I'm going to suggest"},{"t":12986,"text":"that we just take the time that stuff needs to"},{"t":12988,"text":"break us and move us into our Dayton Council meeting"},{"t":12991,"text":"And we'll resume immediately when they are ready."}],"words":33669,"fetchedAt":"2026-10-03T04:41:00.107Z"}