{"videoId":"https://video.isilive.ca/victoria/New%20Encoder_COTW_2026-07-02-12-02.mp4","source":"isilive_vtt","segments":[{"t":4,"text":"Council Kim is joining us online briefly and then we'll"},{"t":6,"text":"be joining us a little later this morning in person."},{"t":9,"text":"So we do have a full complement this morning. We"},{"t":13,"text":"have for our consideration at Committee today two sets of"},{"t":16,"text":"minutes, one land use matter, two staff reports and one"},{"t":20,"text":"council member motion. But of course before we begin our"},{"t":25,"text":"work together we always like to take a moment to"},{"t":26,"text":"ground ourselves and the recognition of the territories on which"},{"t":31,"text":"we have the opportunity to do our work, the lands"},{"t":34,"text":"and the waters that surround them that have been stewarded"},{"t":35,"text":"for so many generations by the Quangan people. We have"},{"t":39,"text":"so many opportunities to work with the Songhees Nation in"},{"t":42,"text":"the Kosapsum Nation in an effort to ensure that all"},{"t":46,"text":"of the people who live here in the City of"},{"t":47,"text":"Victoria have as many opportunities as possible to enjoy the"},{"t":50,"text":"pleasures and the realities and the opportunities that are here"},{"t":53,"text":"in the city. We've had in fact a very interesting"},{"t":57,"text":"day yesterday as we celebrated Canada Day and had a"},{"t":60,"text":"chance to join with the nation's as they too opened"},{"t":63,"text":"the celebrations, the lawns of the legislature. With a performance"},{"t":68,"text":"from the Le Kuangan dancers and some very thoughtful comments"},{"t":71,"text":"from the leaders of both nations. And I think it"},{"t":74,"text":"is helpful for us to realise that even recognising what"},{"t":77,"text":"is historically a very colonial celebration. We can do so"},{"t":81,"text":"in recognition of the fact that we understand that over"},{"t":84,"text":"our histories there has been contributed, but that we are"},{"t":87,"text":"easing into a time when we begin to understand the"},{"t":89,"text":"importance of working together to ensure that the future is"},{"t":94,"text":"more open for all of us to participate as best"},{"t":98,"text":"we can. We continue to enjoy the opportunity to work"},{"t":102,"text":"with the nations and I think it's important for us"},{"t":105,"text":"to take each moment each day and perhaps understand that"},{"t":109,"text":"many of the things that are perhaps are unexpected as"},{"t":112,"text":"opportunities. And some of the opportunities that we help to"},{"t":115,"text":"create are supported and sometimes enabled by the work that"},{"t":118,"text":"has gone before us. And so as we consider the"},{"t":121,"text":"challenges that face every local government in the coming days,"},{"t":125,"text":"we do so, I hope, with the recognition of all"},{"t":127,"text":"the work that has gone before and the efforts of"},{"t":130,"text":"folks on whose shoulders we stand. And then we do"},{"t":133,"text":"so thinking ahead many generations as have the stewards of"},{"t":136,"text":"these lands and the waters that surround them. With that"},{"t":139,"text":"we have had many opportunities to say thank you. We"},{"t":141,"text":"continue to do save by simply saying hi tricusium nequali,"},{"t":144,"text":"which is to offer our thanks and gratitude and recognition"},{"t":146,"text":"and respect to all of those throughout the community here"},{"t":150,"text":"in Victoria who make an effort every day to make"},{"t":153,"text":"everyone's lives better. I actually can see him to Grillian."},{"t":160,"text":"I have no remarks to share today other than of"},{"t":162,"text":"course to recognise the staff, not all of whom are"},{"t":165,"text":"here in this room, who have gone to such great"},{"t":168,"text":"lengths to create what was a very memorable day yesterday."},{"t":171,"text":"And so I know that all of Council joins me"},{"t":173,"text":"in thanking them for that work, as it certainly was"},{"t":176,"text":"well - received by the public. There are not any"},{"t":180,"text":"late items of which I'm aware to add to our"},{"t":182,"text":"agenda today. And so we do have an agenda that"},{"t":185,"text":"has been published and distributed and I look first for"},{"t":187,"text":"a motion to approve that agenda. Thanks Councillor Coleman, seculited"},{"t":192,"text":"by Councillor Dell. Any questions on the published agenda. Not"},{"t":196,"text":"seeing any, all those in favor. Anybody opposed. That is"},{"t":200,"text":"unanimous. We do have a proposed consent agenda, as we"},{"t":204,"text":"often do. And so just for the information of the"},{"t":206,"text":"public, I'll read that out and then I will ask"},{"t":208,"text":"folks if they wish to amend it. For the consent"},{"t":211,"text":"agenda proposed is item F1, the minutes from the Committee"},{"t":213,"text":"of the Hole meeting, uh, from April 23rd of this"},{"t":215,"text":"year. Item F2, the minutes from the Committee of the"},{"t":218,"text":"whole meeting held on May 21st of this year. And"},{"t":221,"text":"item G1, the development variants permit for 933 Douglas Street."},{"t":227,"text":"Would anyone like to add or remove anything. Not seeing"},{"t":233,"text":"anyone wanting to add a remove anything. So it's someone"},{"t":236,"text":"like to move the consent agenda. Thanks Councillor Coleman, second"},{"t":239,"text":"of my councillor. All those in favor, anyone opposed. That"},{"t":244,"text":"is unanimous. That would usually take us on to consider"},{"t":249,"text":"our minutes. Uh, these would be the minutes of course,"},{"t":251,"text":"as I mentioned from April 23rd and May 21st. But"},{"t":253,"text":"of course we just added those to our consent agenda."},{"t":256,"text":"Those of those will return to us for final consideration"},{"t":259,"text":"at a future daytime council meeting. That would also take"},{"t":262,"text":"us on then to item G1, which was the development"},{"t":265,"text":"variance permit for 933 Douglas Street. But that was also"},{"t":268,"text":"placed on the consent agenda. So once again, final consideration"},{"t":271,"text":"of that will return to us at a future council"},{"t":273,"text":"meeting. Likely in a couple of weeks. So that takes"},{"t":276,"text":"us on to staff reports. And our first for staff"},{"t":279,"text":"report is item H1. This is the market rental building"},{"t":282,"text":"revitalization tax exemption pilot project update. There's a mouthful. And"},{"t":287,"text":"so once our staff settled themselves and are ready to"},{"t":291,"text":"go, we'll turn it over to them. And please do"},{"t":298,"text":"introduce yourselves as a reminder to Council and also for"},{"t":300,"text":"the information of the public. Good morning, Mayor and Council."},{"t":306,"text":"I'm Andrea Hudson, Assistant Director of Citywide Planning. And I'd"},{"t":310,"text":"like to introduce you to Chris Moore, our Senior Energy"},{"t":314,"text":"Specialist. Um, Chris specializes in high performance and low -"},{"t":318,"text":"carbon buildings. And so he brings this lens to our"},{"t":321,"text":"policy work and to our climate programs. Um, we have"},{"t":324,"text":"a very brief presentation for you today. Um, on a"},{"t":327,"text":"very brief staff report, um, that's bringing you an update"},{"t":331,"text":"on a pilot program that's currently in progress. So with"},{"t":336,"text":"that, I will turn it over to Chris to walk"},{"t":337,"text":"you through the staff report and the recommendation. Super. Welcome."},{"t":343,"text":"Good morning Mayor and Council. Today I'm pleased to provide"},{"t":346,"text":"an update on the market rental revitalization tax exemption pilot"},{"t":350,"text":"program, uh, to save us all some time. I'll be"},{"t":353,"text":"referring to this simply as the tax exemption pilot for"},{"t":356,"text":"the remainder of the presentation. The purpose today is to"},{"t":362,"text":"update Council on how the pilot is performing and to"},{"t":365,"text":"recommend adjustments to help it reach its intended level of"},{"t":367,"text":"participation. Victoria is a City of many renters and many"},{"t":375,"text":"rental buildings. A large number of these buildings are older."},{"t":379,"text":"Built in the 60s, 70s and 80s, often four -"},{"t":382,"text":"story wood frame construction, often gas heated and built to"},{"t":385,"text":"older seismic standards. These older market rental buildings are important"},{"t":389,"text":"to the community as they provide relatively affordable housing with"},{"t":392,"text":"lower than average rents. However, they are among our highest"},{"t":396,"text":"emitting least energy efficient residential buildings. Nearly half of Victoria's"},{"t":401,"text":"greenhouse gas emissions come from existing buildings burning natural gas"},{"t":405,"text":"for heat and hot water. So decarbonizing these buildings is"},{"t":408,"text":"essential for our climate targets. An upgrading to electric heat"},{"t":412,"text":"pumps is a key part of that. The objective of"},{"t":416,"text":"the tax exemption pilot is to support retention and revitalization"},{"t":419,"text":"of this housing while advancing the city's climate goals. As"},{"t":426,"text":"a recap, I would like to explain how the pilot"},{"t":428,"text":"program works. The pilot offers a municipal property tax exemption"},{"t":432,"text":"for up to 10 years, covering up to a hundred"},{"t":435,"text":"percent of eligible retrofit costs. So owners can fully recoup"},{"t":439,"text":"capital costs over time. It can be stacked with provincial"},{"t":445,"text":"incentives which can cover up to 50 percent of capital"},{"t":448,"text":"cost. As shown in the graphic, the pilot is capped"},{"t":451,"text":"at five buildings. Three resort for GHG retrofits and two"},{"t":455,"text":"for seismic upgrades. To date one GHD application has approved"},{"t":462,"text":"with equipment installation near incompletion and a second application is"},{"t":466,"text":"pending and updated submission with new equipment costs. Both are"},{"t":470,"text":"heat pump replacements of existing gas hot water heaters. Each"},{"t":474,"text":"reducing lifetime emissions by hundreds of tons of carbon. To"},{"t":478,"text":"clarify these are not adding heat pumps to sweets. One"},{"t":483,"text":"GHG spot remains and both seismic spots are unused as"},{"t":486,"text":"no seismic applications have been received. We do expect continued"},{"t":493,"text":"interest in the program. Demand for GHG retrofits is expected"},{"t":497,"text":"to keep growing. Through landlord BC's rental apartment retrofit accelerator"},{"t":502,"text":"which provides retrofit guidance and building assessments for rental building"},{"t":506,"text":"owners and helps owners apply for the city's tax exemption"},{"t":509,"text":"program. Both current applications have come through the retrofit accelerator"},{"t":513,"text":"program. 27 buildings in Victoria have received retrofit opportunity assessments"},{"t":520,"text":"so far and 41 more are registered to receive an"},{"t":524,"text":"assessment. These assessments will likely produce several more properties interested"},{"t":528,"text":"in the tax exemption and only one GHG spot remains."},{"t":535,"text":"The current program also has restrictive eligibility and targets buildings"},{"t":539,"text":"three to six stories. From the retrofit accelerator program we"},{"t":544,"text":"know there's interest from ineligible taller buildings. For example a"},{"t":548,"text":"13 story building wishing to decarbonize its hot water system"},{"t":551,"text":"which would reduce about 2, 600 tons of lifetime emissions."},{"t":555,"text":"Including taller buildings would broaden the pilot's learning opportunities and"},{"t":559,"text":"give a useful comparison between low rise and mid -"},{"t":562,"text":"rise retrofits. Based on the continuing interest for GHG retrofits,"},{"t":571,"text":"two adjustments are recommended. First allow the two unused seismic"},{"t":575,"text":"spots to also be available for GHG reduction retrofits if"},{"t":579,"text":"no seismic applications are received. And second to remove the"},{"t":583,"text":"six - story maximum height limit. So buildings three stories"},{"t":586,"text":"are higher can participate. This means the pilot stays capped"},{"t":590,"text":"at five buildings total with up to two seismic opportunities"},{"t":594,"text":"preserved and would shift to operating on a first come"},{"t":596,"text":"first serve basis. In short, the pilot is generating uptake"},{"t":601,"text":"for GHE retrofit projects, no seismic applications have been received"},{"t":604,"text":"to date. Current eligibility rules may prevent viable GHD projects"},{"t":609,"text":"from participating. And these adjustments would help the pilot reach"},{"t":613,"text":"intended capacity and improve the quality of results of the"},{"t":615,"text":"pilot. So finally the recommendation is that Council Direct staff"},{"t":622,"text":"to bring back Byla Amendments adjusting the participation criteria. Specifically"},{"t":627,"text":"increased the GHG emissions stream to five rental buildings up"},{"t":630,"text":"from three while maintaining a maximum of two in the"},{"t":634,"text":"seismic upgrade stream. Still five buildings total on a first"},{"t":637,"text":"come first serve basis. And secondly to require buildings to"},{"t":640,"text":"be three stories or more removing the six - story"},{"t":643,"text":"maximum height limit. Staff would then report back in 2027"},{"t":648,"text":"with a full pilot program review and recommended next steps."},{"t":651,"text":"Thank you. Thank you Mr. Moore. Specialist more. What a"},{"t":656,"text":"great title. Questions. Let's start with questions. Councillor College. Council"},{"t":662,"text":"Gardiner. Thank you very much. And through the mayor. Thanks"},{"t":664,"text":"for the report and for all the work that you're"},{"t":666,"text":"doing on this really important file. I wanted to ask"},{"t":670,"text":"a couple questions. Maybe starting with the marketing of this"},{"t":677,"text":"program. Do you feel like property owners building management companies"},{"t":682,"text":"are aware of it? I mean some of these companies"},{"t":684,"text":"aren't even based in Victoria. They're big companies that are"},{"t":686,"text":"based in Toronto or Vancouver wherever. Is there a sense"},{"t":690,"text":"that we properly marketed this RTE and people are aware"},{"t":694,"text":"of it. Mr. Moore. Through the mayor. A large part"},{"t":700,"text":"of the marketing has been through the rental apartment retrofit"},{"t":703,"text":"accelerator which is operated by landlord BC who has pre"},{"t":707,"text":"- existing connections with landlords throughout the province. And that's"},{"t":711,"text":"been our primary marketing direction for this. Okay. And through"},{"t":716,"text":"the mayor. Is there a sense that landlord BC do"},{"t":718,"text":"they have like a comprehensive email of all the buildings?"},{"t":721,"text":"I mean do we know that they have access to"},{"t":722,"text":"everyone. Through the mayor? I don't believe they have access"},{"t":729,"text":"to everyone. It's only their membership which is optional but"},{"t":733,"text":"it's a large portion of. Rental building owners in this"},{"t":736,"text":"province. Okay. So just I just wonder through the mayor"},{"t":738,"text":"if this were to pass today are there opportunities for"},{"t":741,"text":"us to market this a bit better, put it out"},{"t":743,"text":"on socials or let folks know. Cause I have the"},{"t":746,"text":"impression we're not supposed to get into comments now but"},{"t":748,"text":"just anecdotally I do know that not all buildings are"},{"t":751,"text":"aware of this. So I just wonder if the better"},{"t":753,"text":"way to broadcast this program. Mr. Johnson. Through the mayor"},{"t":759,"text":"and thanks for the comment and question. Uh, absolutely we"},{"t":761,"text":"can, once some of these changes are made, if we're"},{"t":765,"text":"broadening the scope of it, that gives us another opportunity"},{"t":768,"text":"to make sure that, uh, it's broadcast more widely. Okay,"},{"t":774,"text":"thank you for that. Shifting gears. It does this program"},{"t":778,"text":"scope into the eligibility criteria the attempt to ensure that"},{"t":784,"text":"buildings do not exceed 26 degrees Celsius. It's extreme heat"},{"t":788,"text":"abatement part of this program. Mr. Moore. Through the mayor"},{"t":793,"text":"extreme heat abatement projects for buildings that have gas heating"},{"t":797,"text":"would be included if they switch to electric heat pumps."},{"t":801,"text":"Uh, but this program requires fuel switching GHG retrofit in"},{"t":807,"text":"the JHG stream. So if a building is electrically heated,"},{"t":810,"text":"uh, it would not qualify for the tax assumption program."},{"t":813,"text":"Okay. A couple of questions there. Is there any object"},{"t":815,"text":"of reason why the eligibility couldn't be expanded. To include"},{"t":820,"text":"buildings say with baseboard heaters that don't have heat pumps"},{"t":823,"text":"or AC. Does it have to be solely fuel switching?"},{"t":829,"text":"Hudson? Um, so the mayor perhaps I'll start. Council could"},{"t":835,"text":"certainly consider that. I think we were envisioning that when"},{"t":839,"text":"we come back in 2027 with a more fulsome, um,"},{"t":843,"text":"review of the program. Council could certainly revisit what they"},{"t":848,"text":"would want to include. I think when we first brought"},{"t":850,"text":"this program forward, it was very specific to targeting some"},{"t":854,"text":"of our older rental housing stock and really just trying"},{"t":857,"text":"to reduce GHD emissions on seismic upgrading as many of"},{"t":861,"text":"them were built under older building code. So that's how"},{"t":863,"text":"this program started. Um, yeah, if Council was interested in"},{"t":867,"text":"expanding it, that could be something that you could consider"},{"t":870,"text":"when we bring the program review back to you next"},{"t":872,"text":"year. Okay. I'll get to that later. So mayor continuing"},{"t":875,"text":"on on this topic. Obviously there is significant interest in"},{"t":878,"text":"the 26 degree motion that we had a month or"},{"t":881,"text":"two ago and a lot of folks are interested in"},{"t":884,"text":"avoiding situations where vulnerable tenants are facing stream heat. It"},{"t":888,"text":"sounds to me like this program already includes that eligibility"},{"t":891,"text":"criteria as long as the building is running on natural"},{"t":893,"text":"gas. But in reading the staff report, it just the"},{"t":896,"text":"extreme heat did not jump out to me at all."},{"t":898,"text":"So I do wonder if there's also an opportunity when"},{"t":900,"text":"we get back to marketing or rebranding this program, whatever"},{"t":903,"text":"it is, if this motion passes. Could we make it"},{"t":907,"text":"clear to the tenant community, to the landlord community that"},{"t":910,"text":"we're also talking about extreme heat here in which at"},{"t":913,"text":"least in instances currently in which the building is, is"},{"t":915,"text":"powered by natural gas. Mr. Moore's Hudson? Uh, to the"},{"t":921,"text":"mayor. Yes, we could certainly clarify that for people. That"},{"t":925,"text":"is open to buildings that are currently powered through natural"},{"t":929,"text":"gas. So we can work with our engagement team and"},{"t":932,"text":"think about how to communicate that opportunity. Um, on the"},{"t":938,"text":"topic of heating the overheating or the cooling topic in"},{"t":941,"text":"general, we are coming back to, um, later this month,"},{"t":945,"text":"um, some information on different tools that could be used"},{"t":948,"text":"around that. And so we're currently still looking into that"},{"t":952,"text":"and, um, and, and so there may be different tools"},{"t":955,"text":"for that purpose. And I think that's something we want"},{"t":957,"text":"to explore with Council first and sort of have an"},{"t":961,"text":"understanding of where Council wants to go on that topic"},{"t":964,"text":"before we think about incentives. So I think that's, that's"},{"t":968,"text":"still work that we are considering and bringing forward. Like"},{"t":971,"text":"that makes sense. Uh, I think this is my last"},{"t":973,"text":"question. Mayor, is there any reason why if this program"},{"t":977,"text":"were to be expanded in the future, let's say in"},{"t":980,"text":"2027 that it couldn't at least partially scope into the"},{"t":984,"text":"eligibility, some commercial and stratified buildings, does it have to,"},{"t":991,"text":"I mean, is anything in the LGA or the charter"},{"t":993,"text":"or something that is confining us to market rental. Mr."},{"t":998,"text":"Work through the mayor. I do not believe so. There's"},{"t":1002,"text":"other, uh, revitalization tax exemption programs and other municipalities that"},{"t":1008,"text":"include strata and commercial buildings. Can you elaborate upon what"},{"t":1014,"text":"those ones are? Sandwiches, um, through the mayor stands, uh,"},{"t":1019,"text":"has sanitish, the district of sanitch has, uh, revitalization tax"},{"t":1024,"text":"exemption program, um, that is ongoing year over year and"},{"t":1031,"text":"has a total dollar value cap that includes tax assumptions"},{"t":1038,"text":"for CRATA rental and commercial, uh, though not all are"},{"t":1043,"text":"able to receive a hundred percent. Of project costs. I"},{"t":1047,"text":"seem to have a call from our last GHG account"},{"t":1049,"text":"that we do have significant emissions coming from industrial and"},{"t":1052,"text":"commercial buildings. Is that correct? Mr. Moore. Uh, yes, it"},{"t":1058,"text":"is. Okay. I'll leave it there, Mayor. I'll have comments."},{"t":1062,"text":"And possibly emotionally. Thank you for your presentation, but more."},{"t":1068,"text":"So thank you for the report. Cause it of course"},{"t":1070,"text":"had more detail than the presentation can. I quite appreciate"},{"t":1073,"text":"that. Um, some a lot has been said already, but"},{"t":1077,"text":"I was just wondering, it looks like the numbers of"},{"t":1080,"text":"assess that the 70 or so buildings that are either"},{"t":1084,"text":"assessed or in process, correct? Yes, I believe. Give or"},{"t":1091,"text":"take. I mean, yeah, referects. Of those, how many of"},{"t":1094,"text":"those are with the low structural type of buildings of"},{"t":1098,"text":"three to six floors. Mr. Mer. Through the mayor, I"},{"t":1107,"text":"would have to double check the exact, uh, the exact"},{"t":1110,"text":"number, but I would roughly estimate more than half. Okay."},{"t":1117,"text":"Um. Just what I observe so I don't have the"},{"t":1122,"text":"data. And I don't know if you do either is"},{"t":1124,"text":"those ones that are three to six are really, uh,"},{"t":1127,"text":"really the more affordable ones, I think in the city."},{"t":1130,"text":"There's some luxury ones, but most are really quite affordable"},{"t":1133,"text":"compared to the taller buildings, which and some of the"},{"t":1136,"text":"buildings in the Sections and 80s are also concrete. Buildings."},{"t":1141,"text":"So they're not these wood frame. So would we, um,"},{"t":1145,"text":"given that there are 70 in the loop right now"},{"t":1148,"text":"that may or may not all get it, I get"},{"t":1150,"text":"that. Would that be enough to, cause if we have"},{"t":1153,"text":"like 600 buildings that want it, will we have anyone"},{"t":1157,"text":"left to pay the taxes if they're all toxic exempt?"},{"t":1160,"text":"So what I'm worried about is that we may take"},{"t":1162,"text":"this beyond our real target, which is the affordable, um,"},{"t":1168,"text":"rental ones. Because those are the ones I really want"},{"t":1170,"text":"to focus on. So I guess I'm wondering why we're"},{"t":1173,"text":"trying to go higher. Even though there might be a"},{"t":1175,"text":"building and with no limit in that we have probably"},{"t":1179,"text":"30 or 40 or 50 that are already in the"},{"t":1181,"text":"loop that are really the affordable ones. Mr. Moore. Through"},{"t":1187,"text":"the mayor. The recommendations for adjustment, uh, are to meet"},{"t":1196,"text":"the short term demand. Um, there are many buildings that"},{"t":1200,"text":"are interested or that are pursuing. The retrofit accelerator program,"},{"t":1207,"text":"but we also see this as a pilot program that"},{"t":1209,"text":"we would like to wrap up quickly to be able"},{"t":1213,"text":"to provide findings and results from the program. So, uh,"},{"t":1218,"text":"this is something I think could be considered for a"},{"t":1221,"text":"full, uh, a later program if that's the results of"},{"t":1225,"text":"the pilot and council's wishes to look at, um, ensuring"},{"t":1229,"text":"that over the longterm, murder focusing on the, uh, most"},{"t":1232,"text":"important, um, buildings. I'll also mention that, uh, there is"},{"t":1238,"text":"a age criteria that would remain. So it would still"},{"t":1242,"text":"only be buildings built before 2000 that are eligible. And"},{"t":1246,"text":"that also, uh, supports, um, ensuring that the more affordable"},{"t":1251,"text":"rental buildings, the older rental buildings are what are included"},{"t":1254,"text":"in this program. Um, and how much if we, okay,"},{"t":1261,"text":"we don't know how many buildings there are, how many"},{"t":1262,"text":"buildings are there in total that exist that are rental"},{"t":1267,"text":"within the city that are before 2000. Mr. Work. Through"},{"t":1275,"text":"the mayor, uh, the approximately 412 rental MERBS, uh, with"},{"t":1280,"text":"more than 10 units, which is also ineligibility criteria for"},{"t":1284,"text":"this program built before, uh, 2000. 412 rental units. So"},{"t":1291,"text":"my computer keeps typing in beds instead of buildings. Um,"},{"t":1294,"text":"so that could be 5, 000 units, four or five"},{"t":1299,"text":"that we at least probably five. And if you're talking"},{"t":1302,"text":"higher buildings could well be 5, 000 to 10, 000"},{"t":1306,"text":"units, is that we're talking about. Some more. Through the"},{"t":1311,"text":"mayor, I would have to look up the specific number"},{"t":1314,"text":"of units. Yeah. My concern is we must, the whole"},{"t":1318,"text":"city will have to transform over time. I get that."},{"t":1320,"text":"I have no problems with that. So here is my"},{"t":1322,"text":"concern. And that is if we're looking at, um, 5,"},{"t":1327,"text":"000 units or 10, 000 units, um, not paying properly"},{"t":1330,"text":"taxes over a 10 year period for this to get"},{"t":1333,"text":"this. I'm wondering whether or not your program, if you"},{"t":1338,"text":"expand it, not your program, the program, sorry, expand it."},{"t":1343,"text":"We'll also be reporting back on tax implications each time"},{"t":1346,"text":"we do it. With the pilot, I have no problems"},{"t":1348,"text":"because we're talking five buildings, which is great. But what"},{"t":1351,"text":"we're changing here trying to change upon it program. We're"},{"t":1355,"text":"actually talking about change. Is a bylaw, have a sunset"},{"t":1360,"text":"clause on after the pilot's finished. Sudden. Mayor. No, I"},{"t":1367,"text":"don't believe the Byla has a sunset clause. Um, it's"},{"t":1370,"text":"capped at five buildings to participate. And then the program"},{"t":1373,"text":"would be the pilot would be finished. We would assess"},{"t":1376,"text":"it. We would come back to you. And we don't"},{"t":1378,"text":"just, and sort of to your earlier comments about the"},{"t":1381,"text":"impact, um, buildings and the tax, um, classification. We aren't"},{"t":1387,"text":"proposing to expand it at this time. It's, it's remaining"},{"t":1390,"text":"at five. We really just wanted to ask Council whether"},{"t":1392,"text":"there was, um, any interest in just getting it more"},{"t":1397,"text":"variety of buildings participating so that we could just gain"},{"t":1399,"text":"more learnings from it. So it would remain capped at"},{"t":1403,"text":"five. We don't yet know what our conclusions are or"},{"t":1407,"text":"would be when we come back to you in 2027,"},{"t":1409,"text":"but I think the whole point of this is just"},{"t":1411,"text":"to learn and to see if it's effective. Thank you."},{"t":1414,"text":"And I have no problem with a pilot. So is"},{"t":1416,"text":"there something in there with the exemption bylaw that ends"},{"t":1419,"text":"it when the five are finished. Does a bylaw keep"},{"t":1423,"text":"living. Ms. Hudson, can you speak to the relevance of"},{"t":1427,"text":"the bylaw to the pilot. Uh, through the mayor, I'm"},{"t":1434,"text":"not sure what happens to the Byla itself. I may"},{"t":1438,"text":"need to consult with, uh, my colleagues on that, but"},{"t":1440,"text":"it's very specific that there are just five spots. So"},{"t":1444,"text":"what we do with the Bylaw after, um, after that,"},{"t":1447,"text":"I think, I think that's something that we have to"},{"t":1448,"text":"come back to you with. So just to be clear,"},{"t":1450,"text":"what we're discussing today is expanding the pilot. But when"},{"t":1455,"text":"the pilot is concluded, you return to Council with your"},{"t":1459,"text":"larger recommendations based upon the pilot at which time that"},{"t":1463,"text":"council would determine if it wishes to continue at all."},{"t":1467,"text":"And if so, what changes they might wish to have."},{"t":1470,"text":"That's correct. Today, all we're asking is to expand the"},{"t":1473,"text":"criteria, but not the number for the pilot. Thank you."},{"t":1476,"text":"And with 70 in the loop now, uh, do you"},{"t":1479,"text":"not have, I realise if they want exemption, I don't"},{"t":1482,"text":"know what building is and it doesn't matter. I don't"},{"t":1484,"text":"want to know. Do you have any that are closing"},{"t":1486,"text":"off so that we can stay within the six story"},{"t":1490,"text":"limit within the next year or so so that you"},{"t":1492,"text":"can complete the pilot. Mr. Moore. Through the mayor. We"},{"t":1499,"text":"don't have any current applications, uh, pending applications other than"},{"t":1505,"text":"the two mentions. However, there are 40 more assessments on"},{"t":1513,"text":"the to - do list for that program. So we're"},{"t":1514,"text":"hoping to see additional interest through there, but we'll have"},{"t":1518,"text":"to wait and see. Can you don't have any time"},{"t":1520,"text":"estimates to when those will come through to you. After"},{"t":1523,"text":"assessment. Mr. Moore. Uh, through the mayor, I can't give"},{"t":1528,"text":"a specific number, but they're ongoing. And I think they,"},{"t":1532,"text":"they do, um, several assessments a month. Uh, but that's"},{"t":1538,"text":"as accurate as it can be at this time. And"},{"t":1540,"text":"they come to you each month then? Through the mayor,"},{"t":1545,"text":"I receive updates on the program, uh, participation from the"},{"t":1549,"text":"rental apartment retrofit accelerator program. And we will receive tax"},{"t":1555,"text":"exemption applications if they result from that. Okay. Thank you."},{"t":1561,"text":"Thank you very much. Councillor Loughton. Good morning. Thanks sincer"},{"t":1566,"text":"you mayor. I just have a one question regarding the"},{"t":1572,"text":"seismic, um, upgrade components to this. So to me, it"},{"t":1575,"text":"seems like this is going to work for us for"},{"t":1577,"text":"now for the, for the GHG emissions. But what maybe,"},{"t":1582,"text":"and maybe you're going to come back with this in"},{"t":1583,"text":"2027, but I'm just wondering what the, the, maybe even"},{"t":1589,"text":"high level plan is to try to attract more of"},{"t":1591,"text":"these applications for the seismic upgrades. Ms. Hudson. Through the"},{"t":1597,"text":"mayor. That is certainly on our minds. We haven't really"},{"t":1602,"text":"assessed that yet. We want to see if we get"},{"t":1604,"text":"any more applications for seismic. You know, we haven't received"},{"t":1607,"text":"interest so far. That's not to say that we wouldn't."},{"t":1610,"text":"Um, we do acknowledge that that kind of work is"},{"t":1612,"text":"a very complex. And we also acknowledge that there seems"},{"t":1616,"text":"to be interest in GHD work because there is this"},{"t":1618,"text":"external program that's highlighting it and providing support to rental"},{"t":1623,"text":"buildings. So I don't think that we have any conclusions"},{"t":1627,"text":"on that yet, but we certainly want to keep the"},{"t":1629,"text":"door open to it because it is very important. Um,"},{"t":1632,"text":"so I think that's work that we would turn our"},{"t":1634,"text":"minds to when we come back with full assessment of"},{"t":1637,"text":"the program next year. Thank you for that. I just"},{"t":1641,"text":"wanted to flag that as a, as a concern. And"},{"t":1644,"text":"I appreciate your answer. And well, if I'm here next"},{"t":1647,"text":"year, I'll be interested in hearing about that. Thanks. Councillor"},{"t":1651,"text":"Hammond. Thanks Mayor. We'll have to preface everything we say"},{"t":1656,"text":"as if we're here next year. So some of the"},{"t":1660,"text":"things where brought my apologies, if I missed any of"},{"t":1662,"text":"it, I was wondering why was it originally limited to"},{"t":1665,"text":"three to six story buildings. Mr. Through the mayor. Was"},{"t":1675,"text":"a buddy of research work looking at. Our building stock"},{"t":1678,"text":"and seeing where retrofits would be most needed. And we"},{"t":1684,"text":"were unsure of how much demand we would receive when"},{"t":1687,"text":"we launched the program. Uh, and since it does cover"},{"t":1692,"text":"the full upgrade cost, we were cautious that we might"},{"t":1695,"text":"have significant amount of demand. So, uh, therefore we very"},{"t":1700,"text":"strongly focused, um, on a specific subset of the rental"},{"t":1705,"text":"rental stock. And yes, so far we've seen that the"},{"t":1710,"text":"decision making process to go undergo, um, are retrofit is"},{"t":1714,"text":"complicated and takes a lot of time. So we haven't"},{"t":1716,"text":"seen that level of demand that we expected that would"},{"t":1722,"text":"have required a very, very focused criteria. So through you"},{"t":1728,"text":"mayor, you said that it takes a lot of time"},{"t":1732,"text":"where there's a lot involved. What are basically the overall"},{"t":1737,"text":"reasons why. More people are not joining onto this. Mr."},{"t":1741,"text":"Moore. Through the mayor. There's a variety of reasons. And"},{"t":1749,"text":"I think, uh, every building owner is probably in a"},{"t":1753,"text":"different, um, position. But some of the general feedback that"},{"t":1756,"text":"we've received, uh, is that, um, financial part is not"},{"t":1764,"text":"the only barrier. It's a big, it's still a big"},{"t":1767,"text":"project. You still require the financial upfront costs, which may"},{"t":1771,"text":"be, uh, more than building owners are used to dealing"},{"t":1774,"text":"with on a regular basis. You know, the ownership priorities"},{"t":1780,"text":"around, uh, whether, you know, is this a long -"},{"t":1784,"text":"term investment? Is this a short - term investment, for"},{"t":1786,"text":"example. And simply understanding what's the option for the building"},{"t":1790,"text":"takes time. We've seen kind of through this retrofit accelerator"},{"t":1795,"text":"program. It's about a year of cooperation with the building"},{"t":1798,"text":"owner before they decide whether or not to pursue a"},{"t":1802,"text":"retrofit. So I think there's lots of factors for building"},{"t":1806,"text":"honours to take into account that it's not just the"},{"t":1807,"text":"financial piece which this program supports. Okay. Thank you. And"},{"t":1811,"text":"through you mayor, what is it that do you have"},{"t":1816,"text":"a typical cost for the building owner versus the savings."},{"t":1822,"text":"Mr. Moore. Through the mayor. This program allows for"},{"t":1833,"text":"a hundred percent of the capital cost for the project"},{"t":1836,"text":"to be recouped. But however, there are also potentially benefits"},{"t":1843,"text":"in operating costs. One of the challenges is that often"},{"t":1847,"text":"tenants pay the utility bills. So tenants are actually seeing"},{"t":1851,"text":"the reduced operating costs from high efficiency equipment. So it's"},{"t":1858,"text":"sometimes hard to reflect particularly what the owner might see"},{"t":1863,"text":"as an ongoing financial benefit. Okay. And perhaps you've answered"},{"t":1870,"text":"this or maybe the answer. Well, you can just tell"},{"t":1872,"text":"me I'll ask it. If this is deemed successful, what"},{"t":1875,"text":"would be the next step. Mr. Murray. Through the"},{"t":1885,"text":"mayor, I think, you know, our plan would be to"},{"t":1888,"text":"come, you know, we would do an analysis of this,"},{"t":1891,"text":"um, I think our hope is that when all five"},{"t":1892,"text":"spots are taken, um, we will look at the variety"},{"t":1897,"text":"of work and buildings that, um, that we receive. Talk"},{"t":1901,"text":"to the owners about their experience. And then, you know,"},{"t":1907,"text":"do an assessment, come back to some recommendations. We don't"},{"t":1909,"text":"know what that is yet. So it's, um, but that"},{"t":1912,"text":"would be the intent of the next report. Thanks. And"},{"t":1916,"text":"what appears to be my last question, Mayor, is, and"},{"t":1919,"text":"it was brought up by my colleague, at least the"},{"t":1921,"text":"idea of shifting, um, the costs are shift to other"},{"t":1924,"text":"taxpayer buildings. So do we have the cost shift of"},{"t":1929,"text":"the two buildings and the expected perhaps three and five"},{"t":1933,"text":"buildings in total. And if this is successful, any estimates"},{"t":1937,"text":"on ongoing, um, expenses that would be shifted to other"},{"t":1940,"text":"taxpayers. Sure more. Through the mayor. I don't have the"},{"t":1950,"text":"specific number for the current applications. However, they're on the"},{"t":1956,"text":"lower end of the range we expected. But I can"},{"t":1959,"text":"provide an estimate from the original proposal for this program,"},{"t":1968,"text":"which estimated that the five projects could range from a"},{"t":1972,"text":"point one percent to appoint a percent. Increase in the"},{"t":1975,"text":"residential rate class. In the years in which all five"},{"t":1977,"text":"tax exemptions were active, uh, and to give some context"},{"t":1983,"text":"that for a one million dollar single family home that"},{"t":1986,"text":"would range from, uh, 60 cents to two dollars, however,"},{"t":1992,"text":"yeah, we've seen the two so far have been much"},{"t":1995,"text":"below that, uh, much towards the lower end there. Because"},{"t":2000,"text":"they've just done the hot water domestic hot water upgrade"},{"t":2003,"text":"rather than a full building or a full building seismic"},{"t":2006,"text":"upgrade, which would have been much more costly. Okay. Thank"},{"t":2009,"text":"you. I got all the latter part that you said,"},{"t":2012,"text":"but I was typing when you said the first, you"},{"t":2015,"text":"expected a range of a certain percentage. Can you give"},{"t":2018,"text":"me that again? Yeah. This was originally calculated at 0."},{"t":2024,"text":"1 percent to 0. 8 percent. Thanks very much. Council"},{"t":2030,"text":"Coleman. Oh, sorry. Yes. Besides, go ahead. Oh, it's Thompson."},{"t":2035,"text":"Yes. Money. Good morning. And through the mayor, Leila Monk,"},{"t":2040,"text":"manager of revenue. An estimate of the tax shift, uh,"},{"t":2043,"text":"based on, uh, the properties that may participate in the"},{"t":2048,"text":"pilot program would be approximately 50 cents per 100, 000"},{"t":2053,"text":"dollars of assessed value for residential property, uh, which equates"},{"t":2058,"text":"to about an additional five dollar increase for a residential"},{"t":2062,"text":"property assessed at, uh, million fifteen thousand. And, uh, tax"},{"t":2067,"text":"shift of about a dollar 60, uh, for the business"},{"t":2071,"text":"class, uh, which equates to about an 11 dollar increase"},{"t":2075,"text":"for a small business assessed at 721, 000. Thank you"},{"t":2080,"text":"very much for that. Point of order, Mayor. Yes. Could"},{"t":2083,"text":"she please put that in an email to us? Yes."},{"t":2087,"text":"If you don't mind. Yes. If you don't mind, that"},{"t":2088,"text":"would be thank you. Thank you. Councillor Heming, do you"},{"t":2092,"text":"still have your mic on? Is you? Councillor Coleman. I"},{"t":2099,"text":"might have another question. Um. We focused. And thank you"},{"t":2103,"text":"through you, your worship to staff. Thank you for bringing"},{"t":2105,"text":"this forward. It is a pilot project. We learn from"},{"t":2108,"text":"this. So we shouldn't get too hung up on what"},{"t":2111,"text":"the future might be. That's a different discussion. In the"},{"t":2114,"text":"assessment of this, have we done any long line economic"},{"t":2120,"text":"assessment on what happens after year 10 to the tax"},{"t":2125,"text":"impact on those buildings? Because there is a payback that"},{"t":2128,"text":"comes to us. So have we done any of that."},{"t":2132,"text":"Mr. Moore. Through the mayor, uh, was before my time,"},{"t":2140,"text":"but I know that in the original early research stages"},{"t":2144,"text":"of this, there was some, uh, discussion around. Whether to"},{"t":2148,"text":"only exempt a tax on the added value, um, and"},{"t":2152,"text":"that was, uh, Senu is not enough of, uh, of"},{"t":2157,"text":"an incentive. So, uh, but currently that's not the, we"},{"t":2162,"text":"haven't, uh, I think considered that now, but it was"},{"t":2166,"text":"looked at in the past. Ms. Thompson, I see you"},{"t":2169,"text":"leaning in. Would you like to add something to the"},{"t":2170,"text":"conversation? Um, yes. Thank you, Mayor, through you. Um, I"},{"t":2174,"text":"think what Council Coleman might be referring to is similar"},{"t":2178,"text":"to our Heritage programs where significant improvements are, um, are"},{"t":2183,"text":"made. And therefore assessed value school up. So at the"},{"t":2185,"text":"end of the term, uh, the exemption term, uh, it's"},{"t":2188,"text":"an additional value that comes on. Uh, this is a"},{"t":2193,"text":"little bit different in that we're talking about systems within"},{"t":2197,"text":"a building as opposed to additions too. Um, but, um,"},{"t":2201,"text":"all of those permits and the cost associated with those"},{"t":2204,"text":"are shared with BC assessments. So they will do their"},{"t":2206,"text":"evaluation based on that. But we don't have, um, a"},{"t":2210,"text":"big enough sample, uh, size here to be able to"},{"t":2215,"text":"say with any confidence exactly what would happen, um, after"},{"t":2219,"text":"I would suggest that after the pilot has been completed,"},{"t":2222,"text":"we might have better information. So at the end of"},{"t":2226,"text":"the term though, it would come back onto the taxes."},{"t":2230,"text":"And obviously would have had whatever increases BC assessment has"},{"t":2233,"text":"assigned to it. And then therefore, uh, additional taxes may,"},{"t":2236,"text":"uh, be collected from, from the buildings at that time."},{"t":2239,"text":"Um, I also wanted to note that the way we"},{"t":2242,"text":"set up the exemptions is we try to give the,"},{"t":2246,"text":"um, as much, uh, the speed of which, um, we"},{"t":2253,"text":"provide the exemptions is sort of front and loaded. What"},{"t":2256,"text":"I mean by that is that if we have, um,"},{"t":2258,"text":"an example cost of the improvements, um, can be recouped"},{"t":2265,"text":"in shorter period than 10 years. Uh, that's how it's"},{"t":2268,"text":"set up. So for example, um, if the taxes are"},{"t":2272,"text":"such that you can recoup the full cost within four"},{"t":2275,"text":"years, then your exemption lasts for four years only, not"},{"t":2278,"text":"for the full 10 years. It all depends on the"},{"t":2281,"text":"cost of the improvements. And that's how we tie that"},{"t":2284,"text":"in. Thank you for that. Councillor Coleman. Thank you. And"},{"t":2287,"text":"this yes, this is demonstrably different than the Heritage revitalization"},{"t":2292,"text":"tax exemptions that we used to give. But theoretically it"},{"t":2296,"text":"does increase potentially the lifespan of the, uh, building itself,"},{"t":2303,"text":"which means that BC assessment takes that into account when"},{"t":2306,"text":"they do their assessment. Those assessments go up. So after"},{"t":2309,"text":"the 10 year exemption, the taxes we charge actually. And"},{"t":2317,"text":"we need to try and turn our minds to that"},{"t":2319,"text":"as well. And that gets us into longline assessment. But"},{"t":2322,"text":"thank you. Thank you very much. Any questions? Councillor Gardner"},{"t":2326,"text":"for a second time questions? Great. And thank you for"},{"t":2328,"text":"a lot of the clarification that you've offered us. That's"},{"t":2331,"text":"great. And of course, I, I mean, the out of"},{"t":2333,"text":"value, I wouldn't be there for your lower buildings, but"},{"t":2336,"text":"it might be for a large concrete building, which is"},{"t":2338,"text":"why I asked those questions before. But I can understand"},{"t":2342,"text":"why you're trying to get someone quickly into the program"},{"t":2344,"text":"so you can get your five. I have no problems"},{"t":2348,"text":"with that. Um, but I have a problem kind of"},{"t":2352,"text":"perhaps when it comes back to this another next year"},{"t":2356,"text":"or us whoever's here. And that is, um, I would"},{"t":2359,"text":"actually like to see next year. So just kind of"},{"t":2361,"text":"advance notice because I don't think you have it before"},{"t":2363,"text":"you now. Do you have a question with my question"},{"t":2366,"text":"then I'll put now, which I don't think you'll be"},{"t":2367,"text":"able to answer is do we have any tabulation of"},{"t":2370,"text":"how many properties within the city are being residential properties"},{"t":2374,"text":"are being given tax exemption. And how many units of"},{"t":2378,"text":"housing that would be. That are currently getting any kind"},{"t":2380,"text":"of tox exemption. That is likely, and Ms. Thompson question."},{"t":2389,"text":"Through you mayor. So yet we do have a number"},{"t":2390,"text":"of class one properties that are getting exemptions at various,"},{"t":2394,"text":"uh, levels. So statutory and permissive and, um, and others."},{"t":2399,"text":"But, um, we would have to bring, bring that back."},{"t":2401,"text":"Um, we did not bring that today, but we can"},{"t":2403,"text":"certainly share that with Council. Thank you. Thank you. And"},{"t":2406,"text":"I was only looking at residential. Which takes away a"},{"t":2409,"text":"lot too. So thank you very much for that. And,"},{"t":2411,"text":"um, this is going to be a tough question. I"},{"t":2415,"text":"know of a strat. I don't know how many they"},{"t":2417,"text":"are in the city. Where there is a strataconominium. Within"},{"t":2421,"text":"a least building. So we have a landlord who owns"},{"t":2424,"text":"the building. And then the units within these were ones"},{"t":2427,"text":"that were created in the 70s and 80s. There's a"},{"t":2429,"text":"couple of those around. Would any of those be eligible,"},{"t":2433,"text":"which is kind of a mix. Blend. Mr. Moore? Or"},{"t":2438,"text":"do you know of them. Through the mayor for"},{"t":2447,"text":"a mixed use building and I'm not a hundred percent"},{"t":2450,"text":"sure if that would be. Definition. Okay. Um. Okay. This"},{"t":2459,"text":"would be a building. They're built in there. There were"},{"t":2461,"text":"some of the towers built in the last real surge"},{"t":2463,"text":"in the 70s and 80s. And what happened is people"},{"t":2466,"text":"were sold units, but they were not sold to building."},{"t":2469,"text":"So the strata does not own the building or the"},{"t":2472,"text":"land. And that is owned by a landlord who sets"},{"t":2476,"text":"fees and the strass just only control their unit. It's"},{"t":2481,"text":"an unusual. But those were built in that time period."},{"t":2484,"text":"And if you haven't come across any yet, don't worry"},{"t":2486,"text":"about it. Perhaps mayor I'll give them an address. They"},{"t":2488,"text":"can look into down the road. Sure. So thank you."},{"t":2491,"text":"Thank you very much. Any other questions. Councillor Cardoni have"},{"t":2495,"text":"another question? I was going to move it. There are"},{"t":2497,"text":"no other questions. Sure. Go ahead. You can move it."},{"t":2500,"text":"Something like that. So moved. Monster Thompson, second night. Councillor"},{"t":2503,"text":"Cardinal on the motion. Thanks Hal speaking the motion and"},{"t":2506,"text":"then I'll just signal that I'm going to have a"},{"t":2508,"text":"motion arising with some additional direction. But, um, I don't"},{"t":2512,"text":"want to have an amendment because I just want the"},{"t":2515,"text":"staff recommendation to move ahead as is. I think it's"},{"t":2518,"text":"a really important program. And I think it could be"},{"t":2521,"text":"doing even more. And I mentioned this anecdote, but I'll"},{"t":2524,"text":"just briefly refer to it again when I, uh, gave"},{"t":2527,"text":"it, I was one of the speakers at a conference"},{"t":2528,"text":"a couple of months ago. On building electrification on the"},{"t":2532,"text":"building electrification roadmap, which was here in town. And at"},{"t":2536,"text":"that conference was every major player in green building and"},{"t":2542,"text":"just building in general, there's developers there, landlord BC, BC"},{"t":2545,"text":"Hydro. The province. Uh, local government, screen building advocates. Everyone"},{"t":2549,"text":"was there. And there was consensus in the room that"},{"t":2551,"text":"this is a really important program, not only for the"},{"t":2553,"text":"City of Victoria, but for local governments across BC. It's"},{"t":2556,"text":"really the one tool that we have to help offset"},{"t":2559,"text":"the costs of deep retrofits. And the reality is, is"},{"t":2563,"text":"that fifty two percent of our missions come from the"},{"t":2565,"text":"built environment. And if we have any hope of getting"},{"t":2568,"text":"that down and meeting our 2050 targets, this is the"},{"t":2572,"text":"most obvious pathway to achieving that outcome because it's caused"},{"t":2576,"text":"neutral for the building operators. And the folks at Lamblord"},{"t":2579,"text":"BC, I think people saw the email from them. They're"},{"t":2583,"text":"really excited by this project because a lot of property"},{"t":2586,"text":"owners do want to decarbonize. And they do want to"},{"t":2589,"text":"address extreme heat. But they don't have 200, 000 dollars"},{"t":2593,"text":"or 300, 000 dollars to do those retrofits, put in"},{"t":2595,"text":"the heat pumps, et cetera. Is there a slight redistribution"},{"t":2599,"text":"about 50 cents per building to other taxpayers? Yes. And"},{"t":2602,"text":"we should be clear - eyed about that. But I"},{"t":2604,"text":"do think that the average Victorian would be willing to"},{"t":2606,"text":"pay that 50 cents so that the neighbours down the"},{"t":2609,"text":"street are not facing extreme heat. And I just want"},{"t":2612,"text":"to go back to my comments and say that, uh,"},{"t":2614,"text":"extreme heat abatement, I think should be teased out and"},{"t":2617,"text":"actually made a little bit more explicit in this program."},{"t":2619,"text":"And I gave the, I gave the anecdote of my"},{"t":2621,"text":"mother's building in Fernwood, which gets incredibly hot. On hot"},{"t":2625,"text":"days, especially in the afternoon. And they don't have heat"},{"t":2631,"text":"pumps. They don't have AC. So I think maybe in"},{"t":2633,"text":"that case, it would be the extreme heat that would"},{"t":2637,"text":"actually motivate the property owners to work with us on"},{"t":2640,"text":"this program. They might not be thinking decarbonization, first and"},{"t":2643,"text":"foremost, but they might be thinking stream heat. And I"},{"t":2645,"text":"think if we offset the costs to the RTE, it"},{"t":2648,"text":"avoids the situation in which those costs are downloaded to"},{"t":2651,"text":"tenants. Because obviously we do have rent control, but we"},{"t":2653,"text":"don't have vacancy control. And so if some building is"},{"t":2656,"text":"taken out of 250, 000 dollar loan. I do want"},{"t":2661,"text":"to just reiterate going back to my, my, my comments"},{"t":2663,"text":"that the, I think the opportunity to do more than"},{"t":2666,"text":"just work with landlord BC and getting this program out"},{"t":2668,"text":"there. Because not every building or property management company is"},{"t":2673,"text":"on their email list. So I think part of the"},{"t":2676,"text":"reason why we haven't seen even more demand is because"},{"t":2678,"text":"a lot of, a lot of buildings just aren't aware"},{"t":2680,"text":"of it. So I'll leave my comments there, Mayor, but"},{"t":2683,"text":"as noted, I'll have a motion arising and I'll speak"},{"t":2684,"text":"to that when we get to it. Very good. Thank"},{"t":2686,"text":"you. Councillor Thompson is a secondary. Thanks Mayor. And through"},{"t":2690,"text":"you, thanks very much for the report and the discussion."},{"t":2693,"text":"I found it very interesting and kind of inspiring. Um,"},{"t":2698,"text":"we're in a climate emergency. We need to remember that,"},{"t":2702,"text":"um, just because some other things have taken headlines more"},{"t":2704,"text":"recently. That hasn't stopped. Um, we were the first city"},{"t":2708,"text":"to move forward with zero carbon step code and zero"},{"t":2711,"text":"carbon heating for new buildings. Uh, and now we need"},{"t":2714,"text":"to move forward with, uh, existing buildings. So this is"},{"t":2718,"text":"a smart program that staff have come up with to,"},{"t":2723,"text":"uh, to help finance it. It's good to see some,"},{"t":2726,"text":"some, you know, scope for acceleration and expansion of it."},{"t":2730,"text":"And I'm hoping that we can come up with additional"},{"t":2733,"text":"creative funding mechanisms for, uh, existing buildings. So thanks very"},{"t":2737,"text":"much. Thank you. Anyone else on the main motion. Not"},{"t":2744,"text":"seeing anywhere else in the name. Oh, go ahead, Councillor"},{"t":2746,"text":"Coleman. Thank you. Um, I think we do need to"},{"t":2749,"text":"give credit to staff, both present and past. And I"},{"t":2754,"text":"think particularly of Steve Barber who started the process of"},{"t":2759,"text":"innovative tax exemptions many years ago now for the downtown"},{"t":2765,"text":"core. And that was the Heritage Revitalization one. And it"},{"t":2767,"text":"was predicated on giving tax exemptions for 10 years. So"},{"t":2772,"text":"heritage buildings would be revitalized with second and third story"},{"t":2776,"text":"residential. But the economic model that went with it was"},{"t":2781,"text":"after the 10 years, BC assessment authority saw a great"},{"t":2786,"text":"increased value in the land. And we recouped those tax"},{"t":2789,"text":"exemptions over the next, I think 18 years. And became"},{"t":2793,"text":"revenue positive at that point. I'm not sure of, if"},{"t":2795,"text":"the 18, I see Ms. Thompson smiling going, maybe that's"},{"t":2798,"text":"not right Coleman. But there was a payback. I think"},{"t":2803,"text":"the same applies to this in a lesser way because"},{"t":2805,"text":"this is a different type of model. But I think"},{"t":2807,"text":"this is exactly where we should be going. And we"},{"t":2810,"text":"seem to be getting, uh, exercised about where a broad"},{"t":2815,"text":"- based program should go. And this is a pilot"},{"t":2817,"text":"project. I'm thoroughly supportive of the amendments to this. Thank"},{"t":2822,"text":"you very much. Anyone else on the main motion. Thank"},{"t":2828,"text":"you, Councillor Kim, for turning your mic on for the"},{"t":2829,"text":"vote. Seeing no further comments, all those in favor. Is"},{"t":2835,"text":"anyone opposed. That is unanimous. Thank you very much for"},{"t":2840,"text":"that. And Councillor Cardone, I believe you have a motion"},{"t":2842,"text":"arising. Why do you put that on the floor, please?"},{"t":2845,"text":"Yeah. Yes, I sent it to staff. Staff, could you"},{"t":2850,"text":"put that on the floor? There you go. Let's just"},{"t":2854,"text":"take a second to read it. And actually, I just,"},{"t":2856,"text":"I need to make one small change before I move"},{"t":2859,"text":"it. Sure thing. Which would be an explore and new"},{"t":2862,"text":"stream of the RTE. Comma. If we could add a"},{"t":2865,"text":"comma after RTE. Thank you. Or another funding mechanism. Comma."},{"t":2876,"text":"And then I will move. Let me just, uh, and"},{"t":2880,"text":"yes, Councillor Thompson, I see you'd like to second it."},{"t":2882,"text":"Let's just take one minute. Let people read it."},{"t":2895,"text":"Just to clarifying a question before I open the floor."},{"t":2899,"text":"Are you intending this to be part of the pilot"},{"t":2902,"text":"or part of what may be considered by staff when"},{"t":2905,"text":"they return with their report on the pilot? Yes. It"},{"t":2909,"text":"would, it would be the latter. So this would be"},{"t":2912,"text":"research that they would do between now and next year."},{"t":2915,"text":"To inform what could become an expanded permanent program. But"},{"t":2919,"text":"the pilot would remain as is. So perhaps just to"},{"t":2922,"text":"clarify that we could just add some language to the"},{"t":2924,"text":"top line. Uh, something that says, um, that counsel direct"},{"t":2930,"text":"staff. To report back. On options. Taking out explore. That'd"},{"t":2940,"text":"be okay. Yeah. That's fine. Cause the, I read that"},{"t":2944,"text":"as being a direction two staff to when they come"},{"t":2946,"text":"back and report in the pilot, they're also reporting on"},{"t":2949,"text":"other possibilities. Yeah. That's right. Is that staff? Is that"},{"t":2952,"text":"how you would read that. Yes. Yes. Very good. Okay."},{"t":2956,"text":"Just to clarify that this is not adjusting the pilot,"},{"t":2958,"text":"but just providing direction. And what we hope to see"},{"t":2961,"text":"or what council hopes to see in the report back"},{"t":2963,"text":"after the pilot. Yes. That's correct. Yes. Go ahead, Councillor"},{"t":2966,"text":"Cardano. On your motion rising. Sure. I had a chance"},{"t":2969,"text":"to meet with staff and discuss these ideas with them."},{"t":2972,"text":"I think that there is an opportunity to look at"},{"t":2974,"text":"expanding this program. We're starting with a pilot of five."},{"t":2978,"text":"Maybe in the future. It becomes 10 buildings. I don't"},{"t":2981,"text":"know. Uh, and or maybe staff says there's not enough"},{"t":2984,"text":"demand to justify that. But I'd like to give some"},{"t":2986,"text":"direction and staff to look at some potential ways of"},{"t":2990,"text":"expanding this program, if and when it becomes permanent. I"},{"t":2992,"text":"also think it's worthwhile to at least do the research"},{"t":2995,"text":"on scoping, stratified, and commercial buildings into this program, maybe"},{"t":2999,"text":"with different streams. Going back to the aforementioned conference that"},{"t":3002,"text":"I was at, there was actually a woman from Strata"},{"t":3006,"text":"BC or something there. It's strata PC. Is that a"},{"t":3008,"text":"thing? Some strata organisation who got up at the mic"},{"t":3012,"text":"and said, you know what? Uh, we would love to"},{"t":3013,"text":"be a part of this program too. You know, we"},{"t":3015,"text":"don't, we're not sitting on 200, 000 dollars. We want"},{"t":3018,"text":"to fuel switch off of natural gas to heat pumps"},{"t":3020,"text":"as well. So it makes me wonder, maybe we can"},{"t":3024,"text":"broaden what our objectives are. If the objectives are to"},{"t":3026,"text":"decarbonize buildings, it's great to focus on market rental, but"},{"t":3031,"text":"the other buildings that need to be decarbonized as well."},{"t":3033,"text":"And going back to our GHG account, a lot of"},{"t":3035,"text":"our missions actually come from commercial and industrial. My industrial"},{"t":3038,"text":"building. So maybe there is a situation in which one"},{"t":3043,"text":"or two buildings per year could be non - rental"},{"t":3046,"text":"or something like that. I don't know. And then the"},{"t":3048,"text":"last piece, exploring new stream of the RTE, you're another"},{"t":3050,"text":"friending mechanism to face for extreme heat and in which"},{"t":3056,"text":"property owner sequence, all heat pumps are such. The reason"},{"t":3058,"text":"that that's a bit wordy is that the pilot as"},{"t":3061,"text":"currently conceived, scopes out a market rental building in which"},{"t":3067,"text":"they have electric baseboard heaters, for instance. But they don't"},{"t":3070,"text":"have EC or heat pumps. And therefore they just can't"},{"t":3072,"text":"be a part of the program because the focus is"},{"t":3074,"text":"on fuel switching. I agree that the focus of this"},{"t":3077,"text":"program should remain on fuel switching, but I can foresee"},{"t":3080,"text":"a future in which maybe there's a small stream that's"},{"t":3084,"text":"not specifically around fuel switching, but it's just more about"},{"t":3087,"text":"extreme heat abatement. You know, going back to our 26"},{"t":3091,"text":"degree Celsius conversation. I suggest that RTEs are probably where"},{"t":3097,"text":"that, where that, uh, policy is headed. And I know"},{"t":3100,"text":"staff is still doing additional work on it. But this"},{"t":3102,"text":"is before us today. So I figure it's an opportunity"},{"t":3104,"text":"to do some research on how we might be releasing"},{"t":3107,"text":"two birds from one cage kind of a situation where"},{"t":3110,"text":"maybe in the future we are using this RTE to"},{"t":3113,"text":"also address extreme heat in addition to, um. To, um,"},{"t":3118,"text":"to fuel switching. So there's, I think the adaptation and"},{"t":3121,"text":"mitigation component here that could probably work hand in hand."},{"t":3124,"text":"In any case, the direction here is pretty high level."},{"t":3126,"text":"So the idea would be to do some research over"},{"t":3128,"text":"the next year and think about how, if this pilot"},{"t":3130,"text":"becomes permanent, we might expand it in some ways without"},{"t":3133,"text":"binding the hands of staff because there could be very"},{"t":3135,"text":"good reasons why some of these avenues are not worth"},{"t":3137,"text":"exploring. But at least doing some research on it. Thanks,"},{"t":3141,"text":"Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Thompson. As a secondary of the"},{"t":3143,"text":"motion arising. Thanks, Mayor. I'll be brief. Yeah, I do"},{"t":3147,"text":"think it's, uh, good motion arising to sort of expand"},{"t":3151,"text":"the remit of staff to explore options. And as the"},{"t":3155,"text":"mover said, uh, some may fit, some may not fit."},{"t":3159,"text":"Some may fit better for, uh, different types of buildings."},{"t":3162,"text":"Uh, I was at a, uh, at an event a"},{"t":3165,"text":"couple of months ago, uh, I guess it's a sort"},{"t":3169,"text":"of a campaign to finance several thousand heat pumps, uh,"},{"t":3173,"text":"I think I may have spoken to the same person"},{"t":3175,"text":"from, uh, strata BC, uh, who said, you know, we"},{"t":3178,"text":"also need programs for multifamily buildings regardless of tenure. So"},{"t":3183,"text":"I'll be happy to see what, uh, staff can come"},{"t":3185,"text":"up with. Thanks very much. Thank you Councillor Kim. Um,"},{"t":3192,"text":"thank you. A question to staff as well as the"},{"t":3196,"text":"mover. Would this include passive cooling adaptations, not just technologies."},{"t":3205,"text":"Mr. Through the mayor, the current project requires fuel switching."},{"t":3213,"text":"So, uh, the current pilot requires fuel switching. So passive"},{"t":3218,"text":"would not be included, but it's something that could be"},{"t":3220,"text":"explored. Is that. Is that something that, uh, I"},{"t":3230,"text":"don't want to. I can't answer that. Finangle that someone's"},{"t":3233,"text":"motion arising, but is that okay. To the mover. On"},{"t":3239,"text":"your. Yes. Thanks for the question. The reason that it"},{"t":3242,"text":"says other such cooling technologies would be to broaden the"},{"t":3246,"text":"scope. So it would go beyond fuel switching. So passive"},{"t":3250,"text":"solar passive cooling would, to my mind, be part of"},{"t":3252,"text":"the research, yes. Okay. Great. That's, that's it for me."},{"t":3256,"text":"It's supportable. Okay. Anybody else on the motion rising Councillor"},{"t":3261,"text":"Gardner, yeah. Thank you. A question to staff relating to"},{"t":3265,"text":"you this, um, it's really broadening it. So can someone"},{"t":3269,"text":"tell me now or is it part of maybe embed"},{"t":3274,"text":"in this motion. How many multi - residential buildings or"},{"t":3278,"text":"commercial buildings now. Are not on, um, gas or other"},{"t":3285,"text":"type of, uh, carbon fuels. I mean, are we talking"},{"t":3292,"text":"all of the buildings in the city pretty well here"},{"t":3294,"text":"that are multi that aren't single family homes? I think"},{"t":3298,"text":"Mr. Murray would presume that when you return with your"},{"t":3303,"text":"reporting on what you've learned from the pilot as part"},{"t":3306,"text":"of that report, you would be having some suggestions for"},{"t":3308,"text":"the Council to consider other limitations. Is that, would that"},{"t":3313,"text":"be a reasonable expectation. Or at this point, I guess"},{"t":3317,"text":"you really can't say because you may, in fact, owes"},{"t":3320,"text":"something broad as the Councillor's suggesting or something more limited"},{"t":3323,"text":"depending upon what you've learned from the pilot. Is that"},{"t":3326,"text":"fair? Through the mayor. Yes, I think what we'll do"},{"t":3333,"text":"is hopefully we'll get five buildings participating in the pilot."},{"t":3338,"text":"We'll, we'll assess the efficacy of that. We'll turn our"},{"t":3341,"text":"minds to some of these things. Should this motion rising"},{"t":3345,"text":"pass? Um, with respect to the program. And when we"},{"t":3348,"text":"do that assessment, we'll, of course, be thinking about impacts,"},{"t":3352,"text":"um, pros and cons. We'll have data. We will look"},{"t":3355,"text":"at all of that. But for today, we don't have"},{"t":3357,"text":"that with us. But we would certainly look at that."},{"t":3361,"text":"Yeah. Thank you, Mayor, for that question. But yes, because"},{"t":3363,"text":"really what we're missing with all of this is real"},{"t":3365,"text":"data. Not with a pilot. The pilot was only a"},{"t":3367,"text":"pilot for five. So that data was not needed. But"},{"t":3370,"text":"obviously for this motion or for anything going forward, we"},{"t":3373,"text":"need to know the impact because we can't have half"},{"t":3376,"text":"the city with no, not paying taxes, especially going ahead."},{"t":3382,"text":"So thank you very much. And I'm glad that that"},{"t":3384,"text":"understanding perhaps is there that we need a basic data"},{"t":3388,"text":"too, because that's missing. Again, it was not needed for"},{"t":3391,"text":"the pilot. So thank you very much. Very good. Uh,"},{"t":3395,"text":"anyone else questions of the motion rising comments. Not seeing"},{"t":3400,"text":"any. All those in favor. Anyone opposed. That is unanimous."},{"t":3408,"text":"Council, I'm going to suggest that we take a break"},{"t":3409,"text":"now a little bit earlier than usual just because of"},{"t":3412,"text":"the next item is going to be a little bit"},{"t":3415,"text":"lengthy. And so let's take 10 to 15 minutes and"},{"t":3419,"text":"come back at quarter after 10."},{"t":3447,"text":"And I believe Mr. Hicks. Great wins are settled to"},{"t":3450,"text":"introduce yourselves for the interest of the public and a"},{"t":3454,"text":"reminder for Council and when you're ready, I believe you"},{"t":3456,"text":"have a brief presentation to you. Or not available. Yes,"},{"t":3460,"text":"go ahead. When you're ready? Go ahead. Great. Good morning,"},{"t":3467,"text":"Mayor and Council. William Doyle, Director of Engineering and Public"},{"t":3469,"text":"Works here today with John Hicks, manager of Transportation Planning."},{"t":3473,"text":"We're here today with recommended amendments to the City's Patio"},{"t":3476,"text":"Regulation bylaw over to John for a just a brief"},{"t":3479,"text":"verbal report. It can expansion of the recommendation. Great. Thank"},{"t":3484,"text":"you. Welcome. The purposes of this report is to seek"},{"t":3489,"text":"council direction on whether to proceed with a scheduled increase"},{"t":3491,"text":"in the patio licensing rates following a two - year"},{"t":3494,"text":"freeze or to maintain patio license fees at their current"},{"t":3498,"text":"level plus annual adjustments for CPI. Let us advising businesses"},{"t":3502,"text":"of the scheduled patio licensing rate increases are expected to"},{"t":3505,"text":"be sent out over the summer. Under the current bylaw"},{"t":3509,"text":"schedule, rates would double from the amount paid in 2026"},{"t":3512,"text":"to the full array approved by Council in 2023. Outdoor"},{"t":3516,"text":"patio supports city objectives such as placemaking, safety and well"},{"t":3520,"text":"- being, and economic development and contribute to a dynamic"},{"t":3523,"text":"urban environment and the downtown core and village centres. A"},{"t":3528,"text":"formal licensing program ensures that public safety and accessibility are"},{"t":3532,"text":"protected while also compensating the city for semi - exclusive"},{"t":3536,"text":"use of public space and ensuring that the provision of"},{"t":3540,"text":"patio - opportunities is equitable to businesses across the city."},{"t":3544,"text":"The patio program, the FOR provides mutual benefit to the"},{"t":3547,"text":"City and businesses. In September 2025, Council Directed staff to"},{"t":3553,"text":"undertake a holistic review of onStreet parking and curbside management"},{"t":3557,"text":"across the city. Demand for the limited right of way"},{"t":3560,"text":"is increasing. And the review provides an opportunity to develop"},{"t":3563,"text":"a transparent and consistently applied administrative structure, including fee schedules."},{"t":3569,"text":"For the sometimes competing uses of the City's right -"},{"t":3571,"text":"of - way. This analysis aligns with Go Victoria, the"},{"t":3575,"text":"City Mobility Strategy, which identifies valuing the city's right -"},{"t":3578,"text":"of - way as a key policy position. I review"},{"t":3582,"text":"of the patio program will be incorporated into future assessments"},{"t":3585,"text":"of COBSIDE needs and examined alongside other uses of the"},{"t":3589,"text":"City's right of way, making any significant changes to the"},{"t":3593,"text":"patio program before that work is complete would be premature."},{"t":3597,"text":"In the interim, predictable and moderate fee increases aligned with"},{"t":3601,"text":"CPA or CPI would help offset increasing program administration costs."},{"t":3607,"text":"The program would also provide businesses with greater certainty as"},{"t":3610,"text":"a budget and plan for future years while awaiting for"},{"t":3613,"text":"the outcome of the curbside needs assessment. If Council Direct"},{"t":3618,"text":"staff to maintain current the area rates at 2026 levels,"},{"t":3621,"text":"with annual compounded CPI adjustments, staff will report back with"},{"t":3625,"text":"recommended with recommended fee structures as part of the CURB"},{"t":3628,"text":"side needs assessment. For the reasons outlined in the report,"},{"t":3632,"text":"staff recommend that the area table in the Bylaw will"},{"t":3635,"text":"be updated to remove future staggered rate increases, maintaining the"},{"t":3640,"text":"2027 base rate at 2026 levels with CPI increases. Thank"},{"t":3648,"text":"you. Great, thank you very much. Questions. Any questions? Council"},{"t":3652,"text":"Gardner. Thank you. And thank you for the report. I"},{"t":3657,"text":"think the patio City people are really very, very, very"},{"t":3663,"text":"pleased with it. So I think that it's been a"},{"t":3665,"text":"great program. Just a couple of questions. Uh, how do"},{"t":3669,"text":"our rates compare, so we say, to rates, excuse me,"},{"t":3674,"text":"with that charge and other municipalities? Do we have any"},{"t":3677,"text":"idea on that? Mr. Hicks, do you know that? Uh,"},{"t":3681,"text":"through the mayor. I can say that when the rates"},{"t":3684,"text":"were set in 2023, there was analysis done across different"},{"t":3687,"text":"jurisdictions. Um, and that came into it. Uh, the rates"},{"t":3692,"text":"that we set were around that mid - level range."},{"t":3696,"text":"It all depends very much on the value of the"},{"t":3697,"text":"land. Um, and the usage of the land, um, so"},{"t":3700,"text":"there were, you know, discrepancies here and there. We also"},{"t":3702,"text":"have a five tiered system. Um, so we do different"},{"t":3704,"text":"rates according to where they land in the city. Some"},{"t":3707,"text":"other jurisdictions don't do that. They just have one downtown"},{"t":3709,"text":"area and then one other rate for everywhere else. So"},{"t":3712,"text":"it's hard to do a direct comparison. Thank you. That's"},{"t":3715,"text":"very important, I think, for the public to know that"},{"t":3718,"text":"that comparison was made. Um, when it comes to these"},{"t":3721,"text":"patios, frankly, I use them more often sometimes. And I"},{"t":3725,"text":"think inside of a restaurant. And, um, who takes care"},{"t":3729,"text":"of the garbage waste and what have you when there's,"},{"t":3733,"text":"when it's, for example, downtown, where there's a big, you"},{"t":3736,"text":"know, garbage candidate that the city doing it or is"},{"t":3738,"text":"usually restaurants take care of their own. Can you explain"},{"t":3741,"text":"just what goes on there. Through the mayor, uh, under"},{"t":3745,"text":"the Bible, the patio license is responsible for anything within"},{"t":3749,"text":"their patio, um, anything adjacent to that on the City"},{"t":3752,"text":"Street, et cetera. That's definitely a responsibility that the city"},{"t":3755,"text":"works on. Um, I know that some of the patio"},{"t":3758,"text":"owners obviously do a little bit more around the edges,"},{"t":3761,"text":"just out of to make sure that their area looks"},{"t":3763,"text":"attractive and inviting to guests. Um, but generally these patios"},{"t":3767,"text":"are located in some of our busiest areas of town."},{"t":3769,"text":"Um, so they are generally quite well kept. Thank you"},{"t":3773,"text":"very much. Thank you very much. That's my questions, Mayor."},{"t":3775,"text":"Great. Any other questions, Council Caro, no, no. Just, just"},{"t":3778,"text":"one question about the difference between options one and two,"},{"t":3781,"text":"because option one includes CPI increases and option two doesn't."},{"t":3786,"text":"Can you help me understand, does this program cause staff"},{"t":3790,"text":"very much? Is there a rationale for the CPI. What's"},{"t":3793,"text":"the argument for it? Through the mayor, uh, the administrative"},{"t":3798,"text":"costs are definitely something that we as staff have to"},{"t":3802,"text":"manage. Um, we do have regular inspections. Um, the patio,"},{"t":3806,"text":"we do have an application fee, but to be quite"},{"t":3808,"text":"honest, the application fee is quite minimal. Um, some patios"},{"t":3811,"text":"are very straightforward. Others are very complex. Um, we have"},{"t":3815,"text":"other fees across the city as well, um, three finance."},{"t":3818,"text":"It's not just us. It's by law. It carries across"},{"t":3821,"text":"different jurisdictions. If I could add to that also through"},{"t":3826,"text":"the mayor, uh, some of the feedback we've got from"},{"t":3829,"text":"business is not necessarily all is that they're looking maybe"},{"t":3831,"text":"for predictability in rates and for us to be able"},{"t":3834,"text":"to provide a bit of a multi - year outlook"},{"t":3836,"text":"rather than perhaps staying steady and then having a large"},{"t":3839,"text":"jump. So that's what we're aiming to provide a bit"},{"t":3842,"text":"of that idea. Yeah. And I guess the problem too"},{"t":3844,"text":"is that if you freeze rates without the CPI eventually"},{"t":3848,"text":"when they need to go up, it becomes a bigger"},{"t":3849,"text":"issue. Whereas if the CPI, it's more manageable. I'm convinced"},{"t":3853,"text":"that if there's no, I can move option one. I"},{"t":3855,"text":"believe the question from Councillor Coleman, but I'll come back"},{"t":3858,"text":"to you, Councillor Coleman. Thank you. And it's a follow"},{"t":3861,"text":"- up to that question. And the background is when"},{"t":3864,"text":"we set our tax rates, we quite often hear from"},{"t":3868,"text":"the public that you shouldn't be above CPI. And our"},{"t":3872,"text":"response is always CPI, the consumer price index doesn't reflect"},{"t":3877,"text":"what we need to do to manage the city. So"},{"t":3879,"text":"we need a municipal price index and nobody's ever done"},{"t":3881,"text":"that for us. Or we haven't done it. So now"},{"t":3884,"text":"we're using CPI. So the question, I have no problem"},{"t":3888,"text":"because I think it does predictability, but have we thought"},{"t":3891,"text":"about trying to assess. And it may be too minuscule"},{"t":3895,"text":"to actually do the cost benefit analysis on this. What"},{"t":3898,"text":"actually the cost is to us as opposed to CPI."},{"t":3901,"text":"Mr. Doyle. Through the mayor, uh, the CPI provides perhaps"},{"t":3907,"text":"a bit of a proxy for the many different factors"},{"t":3909,"text":"that escalated. And maybe the five or so year period"},{"t":3911,"text":"that we might do a more formal adjustment. So the"},{"t":3915,"text":"different factors that affect evaluation and the competing needs for"},{"t":3919,"text":"the CURB space are really quite unique and it'd be"},{"t":3921,"text":"hard to maybe find anyone index. That would be the"},{"t":3923,"text":"best. That's a very good answer. Thank you. Thank you."},{"t":3928,"text":"Any other questions. Go ahead Councillor Codonia would like to"},{"t":3933,"text":"move option one or staff recommendation. Thank you. Yeah. Some"},{"t":3936,"text":"of your seconding. Go ahead Council Cardano. Yeah. Just briefly"},{"t":3940,"text":"this, this program has been wildly successful. The patio Bylaw"},{"t":3943,"text":"goes back to 2023. We've come a long way as"},{"t":3945,"text":"a city on patios. It was kind of the wild"},{"t":3947,"text":"west pre - COVID during COVID there was this pilot."},{"t":3951,"text":"It was obvious that Victorian's really appreciated having more access"},{"t":3953,"text":"to patios. And so it became regularized through a bylaw."},{"t":3957,"text":"And now we're dealing with the finer points of what"},{"t":3960,"text":"had a charge this program. I do think it's fair"},{"t":3963,"text":"that we charge restaurants and other businesses something to use"},{"t":3967,"text":"the public realm after all they are using public realm"},{"t":3970,"text":"space. But I think given the fact that it activates"},{"t":3973,"text":"downtown activate streets and has really enjoyed by, by Victorians,"},{"t":3976,"text":"that I think that moderating the increases makes a lot"},{"t":3980,"text":"of sense. It's a way of showing our support for"},{"t":3982,"text":"small businesses while still allowing for those CPI increases because"},{"t":3985,"text":"there is some staff time and some staff costs that"},{"t":3988,"text":"is associated with this bylaw. So I think that this"},{"t":3990,"text":"strikes the right balance and shows our support for activation"},{"t":3992,"text":"and restaurants while making sure that we remain whole. So"},{"t":3996,"text":"I support this moving forward. Thanks Mayor. Thank you Councillor"},{"t":3998,"text":"Gardner as a secondary. As I said during the questions,"},{"t":4005,"text":"the patio bill also been very well received. And I"},{"t":4008,"text":"think, and especially even more so, uh, than government street"},{"t":4012,"text":"in the village areas. And I think that has been"},{"t":4015,"text":"very good because it's brought a lot of people together."},{"t":4017,"text":"So I think it's a great program. And we do"},{"t":4020,"text":"have to have a bit of an increase each year."},{"t":4022,"text":"Otherwise, we'll fall into some of the problems we've had"},{"t":4024,"text":"in the past. So thank you very much. Thank you"},{"t":4026,"text":"very much Councilman. Thank you. Yes. The growth of the"},{"t":4032,"text":"patio culture in this region has been extraordinary. And it's"},{"t":4039,"text":"added a certain vibrancy to all our communities. I hesitate"},{"t":4045,"text":"to say that the CPI should be used at all"},{"t":4048,"text":"times. But in this case, it makes sense. It's, it's,"},{"t":4052,"text":"uh. An option that doesn't require an awful lot, but"},{"t":4057,"text":"it adds all sorts of predictability to the users to"},{"t":4061,"text":"the owners. So I think that this is absolutely, um,"},{"t":4065,"text":"supportable. Thank you. Thank you very much. Anybody else. Checking"},{"t":4070,"text":"online. No. Yeah. I'm happy to support this. I think"},{"t":4073,"text":"it's reasonable for us to do what we can, um,"},{"t":4076,"text":"support this type of use of the public realm. But"},{"t":4079,"text":"as others have said, uh, some modest increase that reflects"},{"t":4084,"text":"at least someone's standard of the increases of general prices"},{"t":4087,"text":"make sense. So happy to support this. All those in"},{"t":4090,"text":"favor. Anybody opposed. That is unanimous. Thank you very much"},{"t":4096,"text":"for that. Thank you very much for your staff input"},{"t":4099,"text":"and all the work that went into this. That takes"},{"t":4101,"text":"care of the two domes that we have based on"},{"t":4104,"text":"staff reports. And now we have one item of new"},{"t":4106,"text":"business. This is a Council Member Motion with regard to"},{"t":4111,"text":"island Health Harbour Safe Consumption Site. And I believe this"},{"t":4114,"text":"was put forward by Councillor Gardner and also Councillor Gard,"},{"t":4116,"text":"if you'd like to move it. Thank you very much."},{"t":4118,"text":"It's your seconder. Councillor Hammond. Council Gardener. Go ahead."},{"t":4140,"text":"Thank you, Mayor. The motion before council is the most"},{"t":4144,"text":"consequential of any that I have put forward during my"},{"t":4147,"text":"term as a City Councillor. How we respond this morning"},{"t":4152,"text":"will shape the future of our city more than any"},{"t":4154,"text":"issue we've dealt with in the past four years. This"},{"t":4159,"text":"motion is not just about how we deal with the"},{"t":4161,"text":"exploitation of our most vulnerable citizens or about disorder and"},{"t":4165,"text":"crime on the streets. Or about a cathotic plan offered"},{"t":4171,"text":"to the public as response to problems. It's about how"},{"t":4174,"text":"we define ourselves as citizens and what kind of city"},{"t":4177,"text":"we want to live in. My motion has been described"},{"t":4181,"text":"by a federal councillor. I'm going to start that over,"},{"t":4185,"text":"sorry. My motion has been described by a fellow councillor"},{"t":4188,"text":"as reckless and cruel. Nothing could be further from the"},{"t":4191,"text":"truth. Let me be clear. What we have seen on"},{"t":4195,"text":"Pandora and beyond is not an outcome of compassion. Compassion"},{"t":4199,"text":"is not placing vulnerable people in situations where they become"},{"t":4203,"text":"victims of illicit drug dealers and criminals. Two compassion is"},{"t":4210,"text":"to do what we can do to break the cycle"},{"t":4213,"text":"of misery and dependence of those caught in the grip"},{"t":4216,"text":"of drug addiction. The harbour has become a magnet for"},{"t":4221,"text":"those addicted to drugs. And for drug dealers and criminals"},{"t":4224,"text":"who prey on the weak and defenceless. The changing and"},{"t":4229,"text":"more potent drug supply has changed Pandora. And our city."},{"t":4233,"text":"The open use of drugs has created a climate that"},{"t":4236,"text":"perpetuates the cycle of self - destructive behaviour in which"},{"t":4240,"text":"can ultimately lead to a tragic end. We need to"},{"t":4246,"text":"pivot. Transforming the harbour could be the first step for"},{"t":4250,"text":"island health. The harbour could become a treatment centre with"},{"t":4255,"text":"professional medical care with drugs. But not with illicit drugs."},{"t":4260,"text":"The harbour operates under federal exemption to the controlled drug"},{"t":4264,"text":"and substances act. The current three - year exemption runs"},{"t":4268,"text":"to June 30th, 2027. The safety of our city, the"},{"t":4274,"text":"health and well - being of our residents and the"},{"t":4277,"text":"viability of our downtown businesses must be continuing priorities of"},{"t":4281,"text":"this Council. The residents of Pandora Yates Johnson and other"},{"t":4287,"text":"areas throughout the City, whose daily experiences put them at"},{"t":4291,"text":"risk, do not want to live this way for another"},{"t":4294,"text":"five to ten years. But the key motivation of this"},{"t":4299,"text":"motion, excuse me. But the key motivation of this"},{"t":4308,"text":"motion is to improve the lives and futures of those"},{"t":4311,"text":"sheltering on our streets and in our parks. With continuing"},{"t":4315,"text":"sport of illicit drug use, most of them may not"},{"t":4318,"text":"have that five to 10 years. My recommendations are before"},{"t":4324,"text":"you. They are advocacy recommendations. Recommendations which acknowledge that the"},{"t":4329,"text":"federal exemption under the controlled drug and substance act is"},{"t":4333,"text":"in place for another year. Giving island health a year"},{"t":4336,"text":"to pivot. This motion is about support of our residents."},{"t":4345,"text":"All of them. Versus support of an illicit drug trade."},{"t":4351,"text":"Let's ask island health to pivot. Thank you, Mayor. Thank"},{"t":4357,"text":"you very much, Councillor Hemmun, is the secondary. Thanks, Mayor."},{"t":4363,"text":"I wasn't going to second this, uh, questions that I"},{"t":4366,"text":"needed to ask. Um, the downtown business association is called"},{"t":4371,"text":"for the closing or moving of the harbour. Do we"},{"t":4374,"text":"know why? I believe in their annual report, they gave"},{"t":4379,"text":"a variety of different reasons related to their, uh, responses"},{"t":4383,"text":"from their members as to the impact of a variety"},{"t":4386,"text":"of issues that they attribute to drug use and the"},{"t":4391,"text":"impact of that on businesses. Okay. Thanks. Um, I've got"},{"t":4396,"text":"two questions that are sort of related. I wonder, does"},{"t":4399,"text":"the city have any issues with a harbour and or"},{"t":4403,"text":"its impact on the 900 block of Pandora or beyond."},{"t":4408,"text":"So you afford me the opportunity to make a comment"},{"t":4410,"text":"that I was going to offer after both the movement"},{"t":4413,"text":"sector spoke. And that is that. Uh, the city is"},{"t":4416,"text":"in an act of conversation with the, uh, operators of"},{"t":4420,"text":"the harbour who are island health. In a conversation about"},{"t":4425,"text":"how we can work with them. Um, improve the way"},{"t":4429,"text":"that these services are managed, in particular, uh, the work"},{"t":4434,"text":"that needs to be done or could be done to"},{"t":4437,"text":"improve. The pre and post use activities. Well, thanks for"},{"t":4442,"text":"that, Mayor. Then I think it's really important because so"},{"t":4446,"text":"many people see this and see this motion as potentially"},{"t":4452,"text":"killing people. And hence I have, I have difficulties with"},{"t":4456,"text":"just closing it down. But when you say that, are"},{"t":4460,"text":"you able to share what it is that are the"},{"t":4463,"text":"problems that, uh, appear to be related to the harbour"},{"t":4469,"text":"and or other, um, facilities in that area. I certainly"},{"t":4474,"text":"can't speak to other facilities, but specifically to our ongoing"},{"t":4476,"text":"conversations with the harbour. As I mentioned, we're working with"},{"t":4479,"text":"them to try and improve the operations and a management"},{"t":4481,"text":"scheme. Uh, I think it would be premature for me"},{"t":4484,"text":"to go into the details of that or the rationale"},{"t":4486,"text":"for it. Okay. Thanks, Meryl. Then you might be able"},{"t":4490,"text":"to answer my next question, which is a number of"},{"t":4495,"text":"people we hear from my number of businesses and residents"},{"t":4497,"text":"that live close to there about issues. Have we and"},{"t":4501,"text":"the Community Safety Mal being planned? I say we as"},{"t":4503,"text":"in the city, the City administration and through you and"},{"t":4508,"text":"the Community Safety and well - being plan. What are"},{"t":4512,"text":"the things that we've identified that are a problem outside"},{"t":4515,"text":"of the harbour, not inside it. I think it's fair"},{"t":4519,"text":"to say that one part of the Community Safety Wellbeing"},{"t":4523,"text":"implementation plan, which looks at the three sections of investment"},{"t":4528,"text":"and activity that the plan has anticipated and which has"},{"t":4531,"text":"been begun to be implemented over the last almost a"},{"t":4534,"text":"year. Speaks with the investments and prevention and speaks to"},{"t":4538,"text":"the support increasing support for the existing and a couple"},{"t":4542,"text":"of new servers providers who are providing a variety of"},{"t":4544,"text":"different services for folks who have multiple challenges and are"},{"t":4548,"text":"most vulnerable. And in the second Section, dealing with providing"},{"t":4552,"text":"investments and actualization of spaces, new spaces, uh, for folks"},{"t":4557,"text":"who do not currently have a space to be to"},{"t":4559,"text":"actually go. And then finally, of course, investments in what"},{"t":4563,"text":"we consider to be response and enforcement with further investments"},{"t":4568,"text":"in both policing and bylaws, as well as infrastructure repair"},{"t":4571,"text":"and maintenance. And so all three of those sections within"},{"t":4574,"text":"the Community Safety and wellbeing plan anticipate intervention prevention and"},{"t":4579,"text":"response. And all of those would apply not just to"},{"t":4583,"text":"the multiple blocks of Pandora, but in all areas of"},{"t":4585,"text":"the city where we're trying to ensure that folks who"},{"t":4588,"text":"have needs have those needs met and folks who have"},{"t":4591,"text":"different needs, perhaps have a greater understanding of the importance"},{"t":4594,"text":"of us meeting the needs of our most vulnerable. Thanks,"},{"t":4598,"text":"Mayor. On July 10th of 2025, um, Councillor Gardner brought"},{"t":4604,"text":"for the motion. It was referred. And you actually made"},{"t":4609,"text":"the referral recommendation because we were just coming into the"},{"t":4612,"text":"Community Safety and Wellbeing plan. And so that it came"},{"t":4614,"text":"back on November of 2025. And have you seen a"},{"t":4622,"text":"significant improvement or since November actually is almost a year"},{"t":4626,"text":"now from the first time that the Councillor brought this"},{"t":4629,"text":"forward? Have you seen enough improvement that you feel that"},{"t":4634,"text":"you can say to the businesses and the people around"},{"t":4637,"text":"there that we think we have done enough. You ask"},{"t":4641,"text":"your question in two parts in a two different ways."},{"t":4644,"text":"Have we seen change for the better? Yes. And in"},{"t":4648,"text":"fact, uh, that comment I would make based upon the"},{"t":4651,"text":"commentary that's been shared with us by many businesses at"},{"t":4654,"text":"the downtown core, as well as many residents who are"},{"t":4658,"text":"housed in the downtown core and in the neighbouring areas."},{"t":4662,"text":"You secondedly revised your question to say, have we seen"},{"t":4665,"text":"enough. Have we made as much progress as I would"},{"t":4667,"text":"personally have hoped? No. Do we continue to make the"},{"t":4672,"text":"efforts that we must continue to make in partnership with"},{"t":4675,"text":"a variety of different nutrients, including ILND health? Absolutely. We"},{"t":4678,"text":"continue to do that. We expected this to be a"},{"t":4680,"text":"long - term effort. And so improvement, yes. Okay. Thanks."},{"t":4686,"text":"More to do. Okay. Thanks. And there always is. Um,"},{"t":4691,"text":"in the November meeting, you said for all of his"},{"t":4694,"text":"troubles and challenges. And indeed, there are many supervised consumption"},{"t":4698,"text":"is a part of the continuum of both harm reduction"},{"t":4701,"text":"and recovery. And you also said, I think it's important"},{"t":4704,"text":"also to note that city, the City continues to have"},{"t":4707,"text":"a robust conversation with Ireland Health with regards to the"},{"t":4711,"text":"harbour and its operations. And we have suggested to them"},{"t":4714,"text":"repeatedly and in fairly blunt terms that there is much"},{"t":4718,"text":"better management operational plan needed there. And certainly as we"},{"t":4724,"text":"come forward with the changes to not just Pandora blocks,"},{"t":4728,"text":"but to the downtown core into the city as a"},{"t":4730,"text":"whole with regards to the Community Self - Dual being"},{"t":4733,"text":"plan, there are going to be changes made nearby this"},{"t":4737,"text":"location. And we are in conversation with Ireland Health and"},{"t":4740,"text":"with all the service providers in the area of what"},{"t":4744,"text":"will look like and how they can be part of"},{"t":4747,"text":"the solution. Um, I believe this is still you where"},{"t":4753,"text":"you say this is indeed a challenging situation. And I"},{"t":4756,"text":"believe there is a solution and we will continue to"},{"t":4758,"text":"work on it as with the province and with Ireland"},{"t":4761,"text":"Health and with all the many service providers in the"},{"t":4764,"text":"area who are indeed part of the provision and management"},{"t":4767,"text":"of compatible and complementary services. I would stand by that"},{"t":4773,"text":"statement again. Okay. So mayor, and because so much has"},{"t":4779,"text":"come from you, um, on your leadership and your drive"},{"t":4783,"text":"about the Community Safety and wellbeing plan. I know that"},{"t":4787,"text":"this is an important area for you. And so I"},{"t":4790,"text":"appreciate that you continue to stand by it. But with"},{"t":4794,"text":"your words, and I appreciate in my words in the"},{"t":4798,"text":"same way that I still hear from people where people"},{"t":4799,"text":"say that it's better, I can appreciate that. But all"},{"t":4803,"text":"of us, unless it's just me, I don't think so."},{"t":4807,"text":"All of us get emails on a regular basis on"},{"t":4810,"text":"Pandora, whether it's the 800 or, I don't know how"},{"t":4813,"text":"often we get it from the 900, but the 800"},{"t":4816,"text":"and the 1000 block of Pandora. So clearly there are"},{"t":4820,"text":"still behaviour going on. Um, so the thing for me"},{"t":4824,"text":"is when I think of, when I think of all"},{"t":4827,"text":"the issues that are happening down there, I do not"},{"t":4831,"text":"believe that we should just cut off the, and it"},{"t":4838,"text":"was, it was one of our councillor, one of our"},{"t":4841,"text":"colleagues who said, don't refer to it as the safe"},{"t":4843,"text":"consumption site because there's no safety in these drugs. But"},{"t":4849,"text":"it was, um, also a recognition that this is a,"},{"t":4854,"text":"this is a, um, consumption site. Sorry, wait a second."},{"t":4858,"text":"What were the words? Anyway, that it's, it's a, um,"},{"t":4861,"text":"drug consumption site. Thank you. Thank you, as a matter"},{"t":4866,"text":"of fact, that's true. I didn't want to get into"},{"t":4868,"text":"trouble for naming any names, but, uh, you know who"},{"t":4870,"text":"you are. And, and so, yeah, this is a supervised"},{"t":4874,"text":"consumption site. As a matter of fact, that's what was,"},{"t":4877,"text":"that was stated. And so the chance, the ability for"},{"t":4882,"text":"people to get. Drugs and to get them safely supervised"},{"t":4888,"text":"so they're not dying there alone. Or if anything happens"},{"t":4892,"text":"to them that they can be revived or helped in"},{"t":4894,"text":"some way is something that I still strongly support. What"},{"t":4900,"text":"I said in November. Is that, and I agree with"},{"t":4905,"text":"it still today is that at the same time, we"},{"t":4908,"text":"were looking after the most vulnerable. It cannot be the"},{"t":4911,"text":"expense of the businesses and the, and the residents who"},{"t":4915,"text":"live around there, it wasn't their fault. Um, that they"},{"t":4919,"text":"happen to be where they are. And so anything that"},{"t":4923,"text":"we do, I want to make sure that we are"},{"t":4929,"text":"taking everyone into consideration while people are being saved. I"},{"t":4934,"text":"shouldn't say presumably because we know that there are times"},{"t":4936,"text":"where people are literally being saved in hopes that they"},{"t":4940,"text":"make better decisions later. Mayor, do you think that do"},{"t":4944,"text":"you think that we need to say ramp up some"},{"t":4949,"text":"more of the things that are going on in that"},{"t":4952,"text":"area, whether it's working with island health or with the"},{"t":4956,"text":"resources that we have that we put forward for the"},{"t":4959,"text":"Community Safe and wellbeing plan. Do you think that the"},{"t":4961,"text":"needs to be ramped up, um, in the meantime. It's"},{"t":4966,"text":"my opinion that the work that we're currently undertaking with"},{"t":4969,"text":"both island health, uh, and a myriad of service providers,"},{"t":4974,"text":"as well as some conversations with province beyond Ireland Health,"},{"t":4978,"text":"as well as our colleagues and police bylaw and in"},{"t":4981,"text":"our public works sector. Our executing the plan as we"},{"t":4985,"text":"had anticipated. We are hopeful that the conversations that we"},{"t":4989,"text":"are currently having with Ilenthealth will create some significant advances."},{"t":4996,"text":"In the coming weeks and months. I would be remiss"},{"t":4999,"text":"to think that, uh, accelerating or accentuating anything in particular"},{"t":5005,"text":"at this time would add to that. In fact, I"},{"t":5007,"text":"think the risk in fact could harm the progress that"},{"t":5011,"text":"we're making. And so I think that we're on track,"},{"t":5014,"text":"perhaps, as I said earlier, not as quickly as some"},{"t":5016,"text":"might hope. But that we are on track. Thanks, Mayor."},{"t":5021,"text":"I, as I said, I wasn't going to second this."},{"t":5023,"text":"I was just going to let it go. I woke"},{"t":5025,"text":"up at three o'clock in the morning. Get back to"},{"t":5026,"text":"sleep. And, um, I went through all the, all the"},{"t":5031,"text":"recordings from the, um, November meeting. And I, and I"},{"t":5034,"text":"want to add that I didn't hear anything that wasn't"},{"t":5037,"text":"thoughtful from all of us. From every one of us"},{"t":5040,"text":"here who wasn't thoughtful about the impact of wanting to"},{"t":5043,"text":"deal with the most vulnerable people who go to that"},{"t":5045,"text":"site and also recognising the harms that are created around"},{"t":5049,"text":"that site and the concentration of services. I didn't hear"},{"t":5053,"text":"one person say anything that was like really negative, even"},{"t":5059,"text":"though, um, even though the vote was, um, two. And"},{"t":5064,"text":"I even said at that time, I just wanted to"},{"t":5066,"text":"register my vote the way that I did as a"},{"t":5069,"text":"way of saying that we also have to listen to"},{"t":5071,"text":"the things that are happening to people around there. I'm"},{"t":5074,"text":"not going to support this motion. I actually spoke to"},{"t":5077,"text":"the mover and said I would be interested in putting"},{"t":5080,"text":"forward an amendment that would be related to how we"},{"t":5086,"text":"can continue to work with island health or ramp it"},{"t":5089,"text":"up. And in respect of the mover, um, she did"},{"t":5093,"text":"not want that. So if there's an opportunity down the"},{"t":5096,"text":"road where perhaps there needs to be another motion that"},{"t":5100,"text":"comes forward, um, with some more thought, perhaps not perhaps"},{"t":5105,"text":"in conjunction with what's going on with Community Safe and"},{"t":5107,"text":"well - being plan, uh, that might be something that's"},{"t":5109,"text":"worthwhile. But at all times, we've got to remember, well,"},{"t":5113,"text":"we saved people through a consumption site. At the same"},{"t":5117,"text":"time. We've got to make sure that there are positive"},{"t":5121,"text":"living experiences for people who are in and around that."},{"t":5124,"text":"Thanks, Mayor. Thank you, Councillor. And I would note that"},{"t":5126,"text":"at any time any Council Member, of course, is welcome"},{"t":5129,"text":"to propose a Council Member Motion in the future. Councillor"},{"t":5132,"text":"Thompson. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I wanted to quote, uh,"},{"t":5141,"text":"Victoria Police Department, Detective Inspector Connor King, a 28 year"},{"t":5146,"text":"veteran of drug enforcement. We said about this suggestion. What"},{"t":5151,"text":"I worry about is the unintended consequences of moving a"},{"t":5155,"text":"public facing supervised consumption site out of an area where"},{"t":5158,"text":"the need is very high. And if the people don't"},{"t":5161,"text":"follow, then you're going to have people using drugs on"},{"t":5163,"text":"the street. Because there is no to supervised consumption site."},{"t":5168,"text":"And I would also point out that the current practice"},{"t":5170,"text":"of the police department is to direct people who are"},{"t":5175,"text":"using on the street or maybe potentially using on the"},{"t":5178,"text":"street to go into the supervised consumption site. As my"},{"t":5183,"text":"colleagues will know, we received an overwhelming number of people,"},{"t":5187,"text":"uh, emails from people opposed to this motion. And as"},{"t":5192,"text":"I always say, it's not a popularity contest. We need"},{"t":5195,"text":"to make the best decisions, uh, for the City now."},{"t":5199,"text":"And in its future and for all residents, uh, but"},{"t":5201,"text":"it is important to note who was opposed, uh, in"},{"t":5206,"text":"those many, many emails. And that includes doctors, nurses, addictions"},{"t":5212,"text":"researchers. And people who live in the area. And we"},{"t":5216,"text":"also, of course, have that commentary from an experienced police"},{"t":5220,"text":"officer and the practice of the department referring people to"},{"t":5224,"text":"the harbour. If the aim is to reduce the crowding"},{"t":5230,"text":"and conditions out in front of the harbour, a solution"},{"t":5235,"text":"to that is to improve the space inside the harbour"},{"t":5239,"text":"to accommodate more people. That is being done right now."},{"t":5243,"text":"Uh, another option is to, uh, adjust the space in"},{"t":5248,"text":"behind the harbour. And I know that that's been the"},{"t":5250,"text":"topic of discussion for some time. If the aim is"},{"t":5254,"text":"to help people get off addiction, um, then we know"},{"t":5259,"text":"the solutions. And that's detox and treatment, which doesn't appear"},{"t":5262,"text":"in this motion. And I made emotions several months ago"},{"t":5266,"text":"to facilitate, uh, access to detox and treatment. Finally, Mayor"},{"t":5272,"text":"of just want to point out that, um, based on"},{"t":5274,"text":"some of the, uh, commentary I saw on social media."},{"t":5278,"text":"And I recommend that people don't look at that commentary"},{"t":5281,"text":"or look at social media generally. But I have to"},{"t":5283,"text":"point out that this is not a problem that's unique"},{"t":5286,"text":"to Victoria. These big trends in the evolution of drugs,"},{"t":5294,"text":"substance use disorder. The harmfulness of the drugs, the drug"},{"t":5297,"text":"deaths, uh, these are happening across north America. This isn't"},{"t":5303,"text":"a unique Victoria problem. Um. And, uh, it's, it's something"},{"t":5309,"text":"that needs to be taken very seriously. And we need"},{"t":5312,"text":"to be listening to the experts who are evidenced led"},{"t":5316,"text":"and actually have solutions. Thanks Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Loughton."},{"t":5324,"text":"Thanks and through you mayor. I think the thing for"},{"t":5331,"text":"me, it's not really about closing the harbour or not."},{"t":5338,"text":"It's about what's happening outside the harbour, but also deeper"},{"t":5343,"text":"to that. It's the division that's happening. In our community"},{"t":5351,"text":"over this, this issue. And it is definitely. Affecting residents"},{"t":5357,"text":"living in downtown. I hear from, from residents that their"},{"t":5361,"text":"mental health is affected. It's absolutely affecting businesses. We hear"},{"t":5366,"text":"from them. Almost daily. And it is definitely affecting people"},{"t":5372,"text":"who are in active and acute substance use disorder. And"},{"t":5379,"text":"our community needs to come together. Sorry. I didn't have"},{"t":5384,"text":"much sleep last night either. So we should have, yeah,"},{"t":5389,"text":"we should have talked. And I also, um, thought about"},{"t":5393,"text":"bringing a motion arising to try to direct this conversation"},{"t":5399,"text":"more over to how we manage the outside of the"},{"t":5402,"text":"site. But I think because the temperature has turned up"},{"t":5407,"text":"so high on this right now, it's, it's probably best"},{"t":5411,"text":"to leave it as it is today. But I would"},{"t":5414,"text":"like to really consider bringing a Council member motion about"},{"t":5418,"text":"this. And I think it would be a good idea"},{"t":5420,"text":"for me to work on that. With my colleague across"},{"t":5422,"text":"the way. It's something I know that our public has"},{"t":5430,"text":"been begging us to do something about the issue around"},{"t":5435,"text":"street disorder downtown. But it is not something that this"},{"t":5440,"text":"municipality or any municipality across the country can solve. We"},{"t":5444,"text":"need our provincial and federal partners. And we need to"},{"t":5447,"text":"bring them in into this conversation. There is also, um,"},{"t":5454,"text":"a drug overdose advisory right now in greater Victoria to"},{"t":5457,"text":"the point where it, I'm reading the headline here, the"},{"t":5461,"text":"overdose surge briefly overwhelms royal Jubilee hospital. Um, so. It's"},{"t":5470,"text":"a, it's a very, very, very serious issue. And we"},{"t":5475,"text":"need to tend to the needs of everyone thoughtfully. And"},{"t":5479,"text":"I'm repeating myself, but we need to come together. And"},{"t":5482,"text":"I just want to note something that I found recently"},{"t":5487,"text":"in visiting Johnson Manor. So that's the new sober recovery"},{"t":5491,"text":"- based housing site that came that opened through the"},{"t":5495,"text":"11 priority actions that this Council brought forward. And I"},{"t":5499,"text":"learned that that site as well as all of the"},{"t":5502,"text":"other sober recovery - based housing sites are the waitlists"},{"t":5507,"text":"are so long. They're not even taking referrals. And what"},{"t":5511,"text":"that means is there is no path out. From the"},{"t":5518,"text":"street for people in active. Substance use disorder because there's"},{"t":5524,"text":"nowhere for them to go. So if we think about"},{"t":5528,"text":"it from the perspective of someone on the street, if"},{"t":5531,"text":"they do detox, if they do treatment, if they do"},{"t":5535,"text":"a therapeutic community and the housing afterwards. There's no incentive"},{"t":5542,"text":"because they cannot maintain their sobriety. In wet housing or"},{"t":5549,"text":"if they become homeless again. So the, the, the 20"},{"t":5553,"text":"men who are now living at Johnson Manor are advocating"},{"t":5556,"text":"for 20 more Johnson manners. And I'd like to join"},{"t":5558,"text":"them in that advocacy. But mayor, I'm just going to"},{"t":5565,"text":"leave it here today. I can't support this motion. Um,"},{"t":5568,"text":"I do strongly believe it's not about what's happening inside"},{"t":5573,"text":"the harbour. It's what's happening outside. And I think we"},{"t":5577,"text":"need to continue this conversation in a really thoughtful way."},{"t":5582,"text":"And again, I'd like to work on that with my,"},{"t":5584,"text":"my colleague across the way who's nodding his head. So."},{"t":5587,"text":"Um, we'll leave it at that for today. But it,"},{"t":5591,"text":"it's, it's dividing our community and it's affecting everyone in"},{"t":5595,"text":"an incredibly negative way. And we need to figure out"},{"t":5601,"text":"how to simmer things down and move out of this"},{"t":5608,"text":"in the most thoughtful and effective way possible. Thank you."},{"t":5612,"text":"Thank you very much. Anybody else. Councillor Deltan. Thank you."},{"t":5620,"text":"I would like to speak against this motion. Um, I"},{"t":5624,"text":"want to maybe start by thanking everyone who wrote in"},{"t":5626,"text":"emails. I put them in a folder and we had"},{"t":5629,"text":"458 emails opposing this motion. It's probably the most emails"},{"t":5633,"text":"we've ever received on any issue, particularly in a three"},{"t":5636,"text":"day time period. And that compares to 20 in support."},{"t":5640,"text":"So 95 percent of residents wrote into opposes motion. As"},{"t":5644,"text":"my colleague mentioned, uh, that included quite a few doctors"},{"t":5648,"text":"and included a lot of registered nurses from our local"},{"t":5651,"text":"hospitals. It included, uh, a lot of academics, uh, social"},{"t":5655,"text":"workers, clinical councillors. It included a lot of detaild information."},{"t":5664,"text":"So thank you to those folks who wrote it, wrote"},{"t":5666,"text":"in on that. That was very powerful to read. I"},{"t":5669,"text":"also maybe want to know that a lot of the"},{"t":5670,"text":"folks who wrote in had lost loved ones, we had"},{"t":5672,"text":"a number of people who wrote in who had lost"},{"t":5674,"text":"children who had lost friends. And who spoke to how"},{"t":5679,"text":"important a site like this would have been to them"},{"t":5681,"text":"and how in some cases it has saved their lives"},{"t":5683,"text":"or saved people's lives. So just a bit of context."},{"t":5686,"text":"And thank you for those who wrote in. Um, this,"},{"t":5688,"text":"I'm not an expert on this matter at all. So"},{"t":5690,"text":"I just wanted to read a couple. I don't normally"},{"t":5691,"text":"take up a lot of my time mayor. So if"},{"t":5695,"text":"you would just give me a bit of grace on"},{"t":5697,"text":"this, I'll read three. Um, I'm writing to you in"},{"t":5701,"text":"regard to the motion on the harbour safe consumption site."},{"t":5703,"text":"I'm a registered nurse and emergency department. On Friday, we"},{"t":5706,"text":"had 21 overdoses. On Saturday, we had 23. This was"},{"t":5710,"text":"an incredibly dangerous time to close a safe consumption site."},{"t":5713,"text":"We frequently work with the harbour as one of the"},{"t":5716,"text":"only places people feel safe to go and express their"},{"t":5718,"text":"concerns. Not only substance use, but serious medical conditions. Communicating"},{"t":5722,"text":"with the hardware allows patients to feel safe coming to"},{"t":5725,"text":"an emergency department. They also have counseling and resources to"},{"t":5729,"text":"help people where they recovery assist with housing applications. MSD"},{"t":5732,"text":"issues and ID. We are in a toxic drug crisis,"},{"t":5735,"text":"which has been worsening over the last few months. Our"},{"t":5738,"text":"local emergency departments are overwhelmed. The harbour is able to"},{"t":5740,"text":"care for people who use and allow them safely. This"},{"t":5743,"text":"presents a huge number of people from coming to the"},{"t":5745,"text":"ER for their substance use. I feel other resources, including"},{"t":5750,"text":"the police, emergency health and hospitals will be overrun with"},{"t":5753,"text":"the harbour closes. So I'm going to registered nurse. Another"},{"t":5760,"text":"one from a parent who wrote in. I'm writing as"},{"t":5762,"text":"a parent of an adult sign living with addiction. I"},{"t":5765,"text":"understand the concerns being raised about supervised consumption sites and"},{"t":5768,"text":"the impact that public drug use can have on neighbourhoods."},{"t":5772,"text":"These concerns are real and there's a thoughtful responses and"},{"t":5775,"text":"meaningful action. But closing safe consumption sites will not make"},{"t":5778,"text":"addictions disappear. My family has lived with addiction for years"},{"t":5781,"text":"and I can tell you from this heartbreaking experience that"},{"t":5783,"text":"when people are in the grip of substance use disorder,"},{"t":5786,"text":"they do not stop using because the service closes or"},{"t":5788,"text":"because society wishes the problem away. They use alone in"},{"t":5792,"text":"public washrooms, in parks, in alleyways and increasingly with a"},{"t":5795,"text":"toxic drug supply that can kill them within minutes. The"},{"t":5798,"text":"question is not whether people use drugs. The question is"},{"t":5800,"text":"whether they will do so somewhere where their live can"},{"t":5802,"text":"be saved. My son has thought help from consumption services."},{"t":5807,"text":"These sites have not only provided a safer environment, but"},{"t":5809,"text":"also a connection with health care workers access to resources,"},{"t":5812,"text":"compassionate human interaction and opportunities to engage with services that"},{"t":5815,"text":"might otherwise have remained at a reach. I do not"},{"t":5820,"text":"want my scent to need these services. But until he"},{"t":5822,"text":"no longer does, I want them to exist. I spent"},{"t":5825,"text":"nights wondering whether my phone would ring with news at"},{"t":5827,"text":"no parent ever wants to hear it would receive. Knowing"},{"t":5829,"text":"the place where my child could go where someone would"},{"t":5832,"text":"try to keep him alive mattered more than I can"},{"t":5834,"text":"adequately express. Recovery remains my hope. Treatment remains my hope."},{"t":5838,"text":"Stability remains my hope. But recovery is only possible if"},{"t":5841,"text":"people survive long enough to reach it. And I just"},{"t":5846,"text":"wanted to read one more, one of many physicians who"},{"t":5849,"text":"wrote in. I live in Victoria and I'm a family"},{"t":5853,"text":"physician. I was horrified and disappointed to hear that the"},{"t":5856,"text":"motion put forward to shut down the harbour. A life"},{"t":5858,"text":"- saving health facility that serves more than 300 people"},{"t":5861,"text":"every 350 people every day. As someone who lives in"},{"t":5865,"text":"Victorian, his lost patients, the toxic drug supply, I strongly"},{"t":5867,"text":"feel that overdose prevention sites such as a harbour, a"},{"t":5870,"text":"crucial services for people with substance use disorders. People who"},{"t":5874,"text":"use substances have been left with no choice on a"},{"t":5876,"text":"current law, but to buy from toxic illicit supply, which"},{"t":5879,"text":"continues to kill an average of four British Columbias every"},{"t":5881,"text":"day. Overdose prevention sites are also critically important to reduce"},{"t":5886,"text":"the visibility of drug use in the downtown core. Yet"},{"t":5889,"text":"visible drug use would increase of the harbour reforce of"},{"t":5892,"text":"clothes and people left with nowhere else to go. The"},{"t":5895,"text":"loss of an overdose prevention site would also impact heavily"},{"t":5897,"text":"on wait times at her hospital emergency departments. And the"},{"t":5900,"text":"number of BC ambulances call out for drug poisoning. Overdose"},{"t":5904,"text":"prevention sites save lives. They provide health care and connection"},{"t":5907,"text":"to other services for citizens living in deep poverty and"},{"t":5910,"text":"poor health. Knowing this, it is offensive beyond belief. That"},{"t":5915,"text":"this motion came forward. As a community, we're in the"},{"t":5918,"text":"midst of multiple crises. And as you know, we are"},{"t":5921,"text":"all aware, a housing crisis, a primary care crisis, a"},{"t":5923,"text":"toxic drug supply crisis. Shutting down an essential service like"},{"t":5927,"text":"the harbour would not only lead to further death and"},{"t":5929,"text":"suffering our community. It also put further pressure on systems"},{"t":5932,"text":"that are already stretched thin. I trust the vast majority"},{"t":5935,"text":"of council will immediately shut down this attempt to deny"},{"t":5938,"text":"citizens Victoria to an essential health care service. That's from"},{"t":5941,"text":"a local medical doctor. So, um, yeah, thank you again"},{"t":5944,"text":"for the folks who wrote in. They were very powerful"},{"t":5946,"text":"messages. I wish I could head time to read more,"},{"t":5948,"text":"but hopefully those give a bit of an indication of"},{"t":5951,"text":"why I'll be opposing this motion. Thank you very much,"},{"t":5955,"text":"Councillor Coleman. Thank you. We got lots of emails. Some"},{"t":5962,"text":"have been referenced. The most eloquent one for me came"},{"t":5967,"text":"from Michelle Peterson, who lives in Burnside Gorge area. She"},{"t":5971,"text":"was a social worker for more than three decades. And"},{"t":5975,"text":"just one paragraph particularly. And I quote the discussion become"},{"t":5979,"text":"has become framed as a binary choice. Either you support"},{"t":5984,"text":"supervised consumption sites exactly as they are. Are you opposed"},{"t":5987,"text":"harm reduction altogether. I see this as playing out both"},{"t":5991,"text":"online and within council itself. I don't believe that reflects"},{"t":5997,"text":"where many residents actually are. And, of quote. Michelle and"},{"t":6004,"text":"I have disagreed on some stuff and agreed on others."},{"t":6007,"text":"Um, on this one, I think she's absolutely right. And"},{"t":6010,"text":"I think it then forces that comment about us being"},{"t":6014,"text":"divided both at Council and in society more broadly. Has"},{"t":6021,"text":"to have us look at the mayor's program with respective"},{"t":6026,"text":"unity safety and well - being. And recognise that it's"},{"t":6029,"text":"not a one - off one year project. It is"},{"t":6033,"text":"set up as three years as a start with Sean"},{"t":6042,"text":"as the bylaw policing side and 70 percent into the"},{"t":6046,"text":"social programs. But it was always set up that the"},{"t":6049,"text":"30 percent was going to be spent in the first"},{"t":6051,"text":"year to 18 months and the other gets feathered in."},{"t":6055,"text":"The question then becomes where does the harbour play in"},{"t":6058,"text":"that. Um, I think to close it, as is suggested"},{"t":6064,"text":"in this motion, um, would just force all that. Drug"},{"t":6071,"text":"use, um, and potential societal danger out onto the street"},{"t":6076,"text":"or into the shadows. And I don't think that's helpful."},{"t":6079,"text":"Does the harbour run perfectly? No. There's all sorts of"},{"t":6083,"text":"adjacent impacts that are being felt. And we need to"},{"t":6086,"text":"address that. That's about the supervised consumption site improving its"},{"t":6090,"text":"operation. But to close it, um, catastrophic. And I can't"},{"t":6095,"text":"support the motion. Thank you. Thank you very much. Anyone"},{"t":6100,"text":"else. Regard to you as she speak again? No. Oh."},{"t":6106,"text":"Yes. Uh, well, let's consider your D was to speak"},{"t":6109,"text":"again. Okay. Councillor Logan, go ahead. Thanks, Mayor. There's just"},{"t":6114,"text":"one point that I neglected to make. And I think"},{"t":6117,"text":"it's an important one. The harbour, it's not just, uh,"},{"t":6123,"text":"a place to safely consume drugs for people in active"},{"t":6128,"text":"substance use disorder. It's also a gateway to the services."},{"t":6132,"text":"And I think the public really needs to understand that."},{"t":6136,"text":"That is how people access support which can help them"},{"t":6143,"text":"enter into detox and treatment and stabilization. And hopefully housing"},{"t":6148,"text":"after that. So I just wanted to make, uh, make"},{"t":6150,"text":"sure that that, that point was made. It's, it is"},{"t":6155,"text":"really an important way to help people through drug addiction"},{"t":6161,"text":"and substance use disorder and to help them get off"},{"t":6163,"text":"the street. So it's a, it's a gateway to the"},{"t":6166,"text":"services as well. Thanks. Thank you. Anyone else. Council Gardner."},{"t":6175,"text":"Thank you. A lot has been said first. But how"},{"t":6177,"text":"much time do I have left now? Six minutes. Thank"},{"t":6179,"text":"you very much. Um. My notes are all over the"},{"t":6182,"text":"place. So I may be a bit disjointed. I want"},{"t":6185,"text":"to tell you what really shaped my thoughts. There were"},{"t":6188,"text":"three things. First, I was impressed by Dr. Wiegel, BC's"},{"t":6193,"text":"Chief Scientific Advisor, who has presented hard facts. He effectively"},{"t":6198,"text":"debunked a lot of the save lives and said what"},{"t":6200,"text":"was really happening to us. And he spoke about illicit"},{"t":6204,"text":"drug use. Especially the impact on those who can't make"},{"t":6208,"text":"good decisions for themselves. I really respected what he said."},{"t":6213,"text":"And I put forward a motion. To this counsel in"},{"t":6216,"text":"January asking that we invite him to speak to us."},{"t":6218,"text":"So we would have the top expert in the province,"},{"t":6221,"text":"the one, the provincial government has chosen. To speak on"},{"t":6224,"text":"this. And yet we're here today. We should listen to"},{"t":6228,"text":"the experts, but this council abandoned that. They rejected my"},{"t":6233,"text":"request. Second. I was very impressed very, very early on"},{"t":6238,"text":"in our, uh, service in this council. To our places,"},{"t":6244,"text":"new roads in View Royal drug uses permitted there. But"},{"t":6249,"text":"not illicit drugs. Medicinal drug is under the watchful eye"},{"t":6253,"text":"of a health professional are provided. Very carefully. And that"},{"t":6258,"text":"is somewhat what I have suggested today. Is it the"},{"t":6260,"text":"harbour transform it pivot. We've heard today a lot about"},{"t":6266,"text":"we're going to be talking to everybody. We've been talking"},{"t":6268,"text":"to everybody for a long time, but these residents, the"},{"t":6271,"text":"other residents who live nearby, those on Mason Street, and"},{"t":6275,"text":"I'm sure most of you probably saw the Czech news"},{"t":6277,"text":"story a couple of days on it where someone was"},{"t":6279,"text":"interviewed. And I have personally visited a lot of people"},{"t":6282,"text":"that live on Johnson Street. And on the 8th Street."},{"t":6286,"text":"And they are trying to move out. We got today,"},{"t":6289,"text":"this morning, an email from someone who wants a tax"},{"t":6292,"text":"reduction because he can't fill his sweets or rental suites"},{"t":6296,"text":"because no one wants to go near his building because"},{"t":6298,"text":"of where it is. We need real change. I agree."},{"t":6303,"text":"We need. Provincial and everyone else, all these other levels,"},{"t":6309,"text":"the provincial agencies, island health. To be online. But mostly,"},{"t":6316,"text":"we need them to actually change and do something and"},{"t":6318,"text":"become accountable. And they're only going to do that if"},{"t":6321,"text":"this council takes a hard stand and says, do something"},{"t":6325,"text":"now. Not let's talk for another five years, three years,"},{"t":6328,"text":"10 years. That will bring a lot more death as"},{"t":6332,"text":"a toxic go on. Um, third, I've been very impressed"},{"t":6337,"text":"too by the provinces walk back on decriminalization. It has"},{"t":6342,"text":"been effective. The deaths have lowered. Those three points plus,"},{"t":6351,"text":"wait a minute, I have to check my notes. As"},{"t":6353,"text":"I said, this offers the opportunity. And it gives a"},{"t":6356,"text":"year for Ireland Health to pivot. To change what they"},{"t":6362,"text":"are doing. Now what has been missing in the city's"},{"t":6368,"text":"actions which have been in response to Council's direction. And"},{"t":6373,"text":"that means this Council and Past Council is accountability. We"},{"t":6377,"text":"cannot separate in trend sheltering in parks or on our"},{"t":6380,"text":"streets from the harbour operations. They are seen as the"},{"t":6385,"text":"Centre, I think, by a lot of people who are"},{"t":6388,"text":"unfortunately within that are dripped by addiction. And by the"},{"t":6394,"text":"general public and by people who are in nearby streets."},{"t":6400,"text":"Our residents don't have the luxury of time to wait"},{"t":6402,"text":"another five or ten years for more studies. They need"},{"t":6404,"text":"relief now. And those living under the grip of drug"},{"t":6407,"text":"addictions, those sheltering of public places need relief now. And"},{"t":6411,"text":"they need change. Decisions I said made by this council,"},{"t":6416,"text":"the past councils have entrenched disorder in our city. Much"},{"t":6420,"text":"has been said about the emails received. I have received"},{"t":6422,"text":"some that I think no one else has received. Uh,"},{"t":6425,"text":"I think the fear in the city about speaking out"},{"t":6429,"text":"loud. So I suspect quite a few just came to"},{"t":6432,"text":"me alone. And I will read one of them now."},{"t":6436,"text":"Uh, and as I read it perhaps staff can put"},{"t":6438,"text":"up the slide I provided. This email is in response"},{"t":6443,"text":"to Matt Dale's appeal of support for drug consumption sites."},{"t":6446,"text":"Could you someone put up my slide please? Oh, I'm"},{"t":6448,"text":"sorry. Thank you very much. This email's response to Matt"},{"t":6452,"text":"Dale's appeal of support for drug consumption sites. I strongly"},{"t":6455,"text":"condemn the continued support and enabling of addiction. Any and"},{"t":6459,"text":"all resources available should be put towards treatment. Mentally ill,"},{"t":6463,"text":"severely addicted people are left to wrought intense or under"},{"t":6467,"text":"makeshift shelters in Parks and Streets without facilities. But Matt"},{"t":6471,"text":"Dale thinks Continuing this practice requires public support. We need"},{"t":6475,"text":"competent leadership in strong voices in support of common sense."},{"t":6481,"text":"You can see what the slide is. It was from"},{"t":6483,"text":"a Facebook posting. And the last several days as mentioned,"},{"t":6487,"text":"we receded, we received targeted campaign emails. And I think"},{"t":6492,"text":"Councillor, well, I've mentioned the number of 458 emails. It's"},{"t":6497,"text":"very low. There's been a lot more than that. And"},{"t":6500,"text":"that's because there were formatted feedback forms that have been"},{"t":6503,"text":"distributed widely. Others are the same letter essentially with a"},{"t":6508,"text":"few words changed. And there have been a couple posting"},{"t":6512,"text":"asking people to do just that. So having heard today,"},{"t":6517,"text":"people shouldn't be looking at social media. We do have"},{"t":6520,"text":"this social media right before us. And it has been"},{"t":6523,"text":"before us now for several days. And it's also been"},{"t":6526,"text":"said that safety and wellbeing is not a popularity contest."},{"t":6529,"text":"No, but we shouldn't be picking winners and losers. And"},{"t":6532,"text":"right now we have a lot of losers in what's"},{"t":6534,"text":"going on. We must push the privilege of government in"},{"t":6537,"text":"the way we push directly is through island health. Let's"},{"t":6541,"text":"change, uh, the harbour. The harbour is no longer supervised"},{"t":6545,"text":"consumption site. It's now a witnessed one, I believe. I"},{"t":6548,"text":"think they all changed. And let's change it into one"},{"t":6551,"text":"that uses medicinal drugs. Let's not call it a safe"},{"t":6554,"text":"consumption site. Let's have a treatment site with medicinal drugs"},{"t":6559,"text":"so that we are not inviting the illicit drug companies."},{"t":6564,"text":"Pardon? You're out of time. Why thank you for reminding"},{"t":6566,"text":"me Mayor that I'm out of time. Anybody else. Before"},{"t":6576,"text":"calling the question, I will make a couple of brief"},{"t":6578,"text":"comments. I think one of the issues that hasn't been"},{"t":6583,"text":"addressed this morning is the frustration that this council feels."},{"t":6589,"text":"About being the only one. And about taking responsibility for"},{"t":6594,"text":"a very, very large challenge. As the only publicly available"},{"t":6599,"text":"supervised consumption site in the capital region. While there are"},{"t":6605,"text":"others, they're located in particular housing developments for the purposes"},{"t":6611,"text":"of the residents, which is good. But meanwhile, for those"},{"t":6615,"text":"who do not have the privilege of having a residence,"},{"t":6619,"text":"they have only one choice. We have called repeatedly on"},{"t":6624,"text":"our colleagues and other municipalities. To do their part to"},{"t":6629,"text":"serve their own people. Because we know that drug use"},{"t":6634,"text":"is common. We may not like some drugs. We may"},{"t":6641,"text":"regulate some drugs. We may approve some drugs. But we"},{"t":6648,"text":"all know that drug use is common. It is not"},{"t":6653,"text":"limited to Victoria. And it should not only be supported,"},{"t":6658,"text":"responded to in any way just in Victoria. So I"},{"t":6666,"text":"call again. On our colleagues and our municipal areas in"},{"t":6672,"text":"the Capitol Regional District to look closely at the needs"},{"t":6675,"text":"of their own people. In their own communities. And to"},{"t":6679,"text":"do the right thing. It is also more than just"},{"t":6684,"text":"a supervised consumption service. It's a requirement to have complex"},{"t":6691,"text":"services that respond to complex needs. And this cannot be"},{"t":6695,"text":"done by a local government alone. It must be done"},{"t":6699,"text":"in partnership. With the province, with the federal government, with"},{"t":6704,"text":"nonprofits. With physicians and professionals. With anyone who has an"},{"t":6709,"text":"ability to make change and support that change. That is"},{"t":6715,"text":"why we continue to work with island health. To try"},{"t":6719,"text":"to improve the services that they are offering at the"},{"t":6722,"text":"harbour. In a way which responds to the people who"},{"t":6725,"text":"need those services and the people around those services. And"},{"t":6730,"text":"that conversation will continue. Are we frustrated at the pace"},{"t":6735,"text":"of change? Of course we are. Are we a realistic"},{"t":6739,"text":"in the amount of resources and the change in services."},{"t":6744,"text":"And the change in systems that are required in order"},{"t":6747,"text":"to make it better. Yes, we're practical and realistic. And"},{"t":6752,"text":"that is why we continue to facilitate those conversations and"},{"t":6757,"text":"convene those opportunities. The federal government will ask us later"},{"t":6765,"text":"next year what our opinions are. Before they renew the"},{"t":6770,"text":"exemption. That is typical. Local communities are always asked their"},{"t":6775,"text":"opinion before those exemptions are renewed. The Council of the"},{"t":6779,"text":"day will have an opportunity to weigh in. Meanwhile."},{"t":6789,"text":"Let us continue. To save lives. And do the best"},{"t":6796,"text":"we can. We're the people who need these services. And"},{"t":6802,"text":"everyone else who understands the value of every person who"},{"t":6808,"text":"lives in our community. I will not be supporting this"},{"t":6815,"text":"motion. All those in favor. Councillor Gardner."},{"t":6825,"text":"In opposition. Councillor Dell. Councillor Couradona, Councillor Lauton, myself, Councillor"},{"t":6830,"text":"Coleman, Councillor Hammond, and Councillor Thompson. I do note that"},{"t":6834,"text":"Councillor Kim had to step away. It's not with us"},{"t":6836,"text":"at this moment. That concludes the consideration of item I1"},{"t":6841,"text":"and all of our new business. We do not have"},{"t":6842,"text":"any requirement for closed meeting today, so I would look"},{"t":6845,"text":"now for a motion to adjourn committee. Thank you, Councillor"},{"t":6848,"text":"Coleman, seconded by Councillor Thompson. All those in favor, anyone"},{"t":6852,"text":"opposed. That is unanimous. Let us take a 10 minute"},{"t":6855,"text":"break and then we will reconvene to begin our daytime"},{"t":6859,"text":"council meeting."}],"words":17967,"fetchedAt":"2026-10-03T04:57:24.135Z"}