{"videoId":"https://video.isilive.ca/victoria/New%20Encoder_CTFCOTW_2026-07-09-02-40.mp4","source":"isilive_vtt","segments":[{"t":0,"text":"And welcome to the July 9th meeting of Victoria City"},{"t":3,"text":"Council. Our work today includes four sets of minutes, reports"},{"t":9,"text":"from one committee of the whole, two bylaws, one item"},{"t":12,"text":"of new business, and a couple of closed items. But"},{"t":16,"text":"of course, before we begin, we always take a moment"},{"t":18,"text":"to ground ourselves and our work and remind ourselves of"},{"t":22,"text":"how important it is for us to take a moment"},{"t":24,"text":"to express our gratitude to the two nations on whose"},{"t":27,"text":"territories our city sits in its entirety. The LaCongan nations"},{"t":31,"text":"of the Songhees and the Ecosepsum. We enjoy a very"},{"t":36,"text":"rich relationship with both nations. Partly because of the effort"},{"t":41,"text":"that we have put into do so to create and"},{"t":43,"text":"nurture that relationship over the last dozen or more years,"},{"t":46,"text":"but also because of the generosity of the two nations"},{"t":49,"text":"in being willing to work with us and help us"},{"t":51,"text":"learn together and plan and deliver different programs, projects, services,"},{"t":56,"text":"ideas, and visions for all of the people who live"},{"t":59,"text":"in our city. When we think back to the accomplishments"},{"t":62,"text":"that we have created together with the two nations, they"},{"t":65,"text":"are many. And oftentimes when we begin to reflect on"},{"t":69,"text":"the years of a term, we think of all of"},{"t":71,"text":"those different accomplishments of the challenges that created them and"},{"t":75,"text":"of the Remarkable Relationships that allowed them to be resolved"},{"t":78,"text":"and continued. And we will do so in the coming"},{"t":81,"text":"months. But for today, we will simply express our thanks,"},{"t":85,"text":"as we always do in their language to say hi"},{"t":87,"text":"to Kasiem d'Aquilia, which is to say, thank you, but"},{"t":89,"text":"also to offer our respect and our acknowledgement of the"},{"t":93,"text":"relationship and the fact that we all continue to work"},{"t":96,"text":"together in hope for a better community for everyone who"},{"t":100,"text":"is here. IHKCM Nicolia. I have no further remarks to"},{"t":108,"text":"add today, and I'm not aware of any late items"},{"t":110,"text":"that need to be added to our agenda. So I"},{"t":112,"text":"would look first for a motion to approve the agenda"},{"t":115,"text":"as published. Thanks, Councillor Coleman, seconded by Councillor Kim. Any"},{"t":119,"text":"discussion of the published agenda. Not seeing any of those"},{"t":122,"text":"in favor. Anyone opposed. That is unanimous. I'm aware that"},{"t":126,"text":"there are a number of items that wish to be"},{"t":128,"text":"removed from the consent agenda, but I will read the"},{"t":130,"text":"proposed consent agent to judge us for the information of"},{"t":132,"text":"the public. As for the record, and I will remind"},{"t":135,"text":"folks that when things are, when items are placed and"},{"t":138,"text":"they consent agenda, it's because they've either been unanimous at"},{"t":140,"text":"committee or they engage with preliminary readings. That being said,"},{"t":144,"text":"proposed were item F1, the minutes from the Council to"},{"t":149,"text":"follow committee of November 9th, 2023, item F2, the minutes"},{"t":153,"text":"from the Council to follow Committee held May 28th, 2026."},{"t":158,"text":"Item F3, the minutes from the Council to Follow, meeting"},{"t":160,"text":"held on June 11th, item F4, the minutes from the"},{"t":164,"text":"evening Council meeting held on June 11th. Item G1AA, the"},{"t":169,"text":"Rezoning Application and Development Permit with variances, application. For 1908"},{"t":174,"text":"Foul Bay Road, item G1AB, the recommendation from the cannabis"},{"t":179,"text":"room, application at 1545 Fort Street, item G1AD, the Council"},{"t":185,"text":"Member Motion with regard to advocating to the Province to"},{"t":188,"text":"restore better terms for Property Tax, deferral for seniors and"},{"t":191,"text":"others in need. And finally, item H1. The amendment bylaws"},{"t":195,"text":"for Off Street Mobility Regulations. As I mentioned, I'm aware"},{"t":200,"text":"that Council members would like to remove two items from"},{"t":203,"text":"that list. Item G1AB, the recommendations for the cannabis room"},{"t":208,"text":"at 1545 Fort Street, and item H1, the amendment bylaws"},{"t":213,"text":"for Off Street Mobility Regulations. So those two will be"},{"t":216,"text":"pulled off of the consent agenda, as is our convention,"},{"t":220,"text":"and I would then ask if anyone would like to"},{"t":221,"text":"remove anything else. Not seeing anything else. So go ahead"},{"t":225,"text":"Councillor. Sorry, can we put H2 on there. H2 is"},{"t":233,"text":"not on the consent agenda. Are you proposing that it"},{"t":235,"text":"be added? Let me just see, I believe H2, if"},{"t":238,"text":"I'm not mistaken, is a motion to... Yes, unfortunately we"},{"t":243,"text":"can't do that, because it does revolve some explanation involves,"},{"t":247,"text":"some explanation from staff, because we are rescinding a third"},{"t":250,"text":"reading, changing the third reading, considering the second and third"},{"t":253,"text":"readings, et cetera. So generally speaking, when we have multiple"},{"t":256,"text":"issues like that, we allow staff to explain a little"},{"t":259,"text":"bit about why. And the opportunity for council to discuss"},{"t":262,"text":"that. So that's why it's not on there. So just"},{"t":265,"text":"noting that, any other issues you want to take off?"},{"t":268,"text":"Nope. Okay. So I'm going to like to move the"},{"t":270,"text":"consent agenda. Councillor Coleman's moving. Out for him is seconding."},{"t":274,"text":"Uh, all those in favor, anyone opposed. That is unanimous."},{"t":278,"text":"Thank you very much for that. Uh, we have next,"},{"t":281,"text":"the consideration of minutes, and as I mentioned, there were"},{"t":283,"text":"four sets of minutes proposed. Uh, items F1, F2, F3,"},{"t":287,"text":"and F4. All of those replaced on the consent agenda,"},{"t":291,"text":"and so I would note, just a reminder for the"},{"t":292,"text":"public that when they are placed on the consent agenda"},{"t":295,"text":"at Council, it is a final decision, and so those"},{"t":298,"text":"will not be returning to us again. So they are"},{"t":301,"text":"considered now adopted. That will take us on two reports"},{"t":305,"text":"from the June 25th Committee of the Whole. The first"},{"t":308,"text":"of those items, item G1AA, that's the rezoning application and"},{"t":313,"text":"development permit with variances application for 1908 Falbey Road. That"},{"t":317,"text":"was placed on the consent agenda. And so once again,"},{"t":320,"text":"that has been considered to be finally endorsed, and will"},{"t":323,"text":"not return to Council. The next item is G1AB, that's"},{"t":327,"text":"the recommendation for the cannabis room at 1545 Fort Street."},{"t":331,"text":"Uh, that was not unanimous at committee, and so I'm"},{"t":335,"text":"going to look for someone to move that recommendation. Answer"},{"t":338,"text":"Kim's moving. Councillor Dell is second day. Councillor Kim, any"},{"t":342,"text":"comments? Councillor Dell, any comments? Anyone else, any comments? Councillor"},{"t":346,"text":"Gardner, go ahead. Thank you, Mayor. Well, I did not"},{"t":349,"text":"object to the recommendation for use of the venue for"},{"t":352,"text":"cannabis retail on June 25th. I'm influenced by the Global"},{"t":356,"text":"Survey of Research and Policy of the Legalization of Cannabis."},{"t":362,"text":"The study titled International Cannabis Policies, and their association with"},{"t":366,"text":"cannabis use, cannabis use disorder, and other psychiatric disorders show"},{"t":371,"text":"the Canada's widespread commercialization of cannabis has led to increased"},{"t":375,"text":"hospital visits for psychosis, psychiatric disorders, and addictive use. Other"},{"t":381,"text":"countries that legalized cannabis, but gave a tidal regulatory regime"},{"t":385,"text":"that didn't involve widespread commercial villain, but haven't had the"},{"t":388,"text":"same problems. What is the unknown is the impact on"},{"t":391,"text":"our youth and their future. While this report, though, does"},{"t":396,"text":"speak to it, and it's the first real evidence I"},{"t":399,"text":"have seen since the legalization. And on June 25th, we"},{"t":404,"text":"did not have that many objections from residents, but we"},{"t":407,"text":"did have from sums. And I recall when council years"},{"t":411,"text":"ago was considering the cannabis retail policy. The downtown residence"},{"t":415,"text":"association at the time compared the need for cannabis outlets"},{"t":418,"text":"to the number of pharmacies, suggesting the city shouldn't need"},{"t":421,"text":"more cannabis retail outlets than it did pharmacies. And I"},{"t":425,"text":"thought that was a very good guideline at the time."},{"t":427,"text":"So I can't support this use recommendation. Thank you, Mayor."},{"t":431,"text":"Thank you very much. Anyone else. Not seeing anywhere else"},{"t":436,"text":"on this one, so all those in favor. Councillor Dell,"},{"t":439,"text":"councillor Kim, Councillor Cardinal, Councillor Loughton, myself, Councillor Coleman, Councillor"},{"t":444,"text":"Hammond, and Councillor Thompson. And opposition, Councillor Gardner. Thank you"},{"t":448,"text":"for that, so that is adopted noting one person and"},{"t":451,"text":"opposition. That takes us on to item G1AC. This was"},{"t":455,"text":"with regard to the Victoria Senatch Amalgamation Referendum question. We"},{"t":461,"text":"like to move that, please. Thanks, Councillor Kim, seconded by..."},{"t":468,"text":"I guess I'll segend it, sure. Go ahead. Alright. Councillor"},{"t":471,"text":"Kim, any comments? I have no comments to offer either."},{"t":475,"text":"Any other comments on this one? Councillor Carenot, go ahead."},{"t":479,"text":"Yeah, thanks, sorry to slow us down on this one,"},{"t":481,"text":"but if I recall correctly, this one did end up"},{"t":483,"text":"passing, but only by five to four. And there was"},{"t":486,"text":"some pretty intense, and I think thoughtful to beat, and"},{"t":489,"text":"then some thoughtful debate in the community subsequent to it."},{"t":492,"text":"So I just wanted to pause us here and say,"},{"t":494,"text":"here's our opportunity for a sober second thought. If anyone"},{"t":498,"text":"wants to change their vote. And this, of course, would"},{"t":501,"text":"fail and would mean that it would not appear on"},{"t":504,"text":"the ballot, which I think for some people would be"},{"t":506,"text":"perceived as us renegging on a commitment. And I acknowledge"},{"t":510,"text":"that. But I think for other people would be seeing"},{"t":512,"text":"as a principled stance against what would end up as"},{"t":515,"text":"a kind of redundant and pointless amalgamation question. That would"},{"t":520,"text":"not actually result in anything. If it's a no, this"},{"t":525,"text":"issue dies for generation, if it's a yes, nobody really"},{"t":528,"text":"knows what happens. It's unclear who would do the subsequent"},{"t":530,"text":"research. Would that be downloaded to us? Would the province"},{"t":533,"text":"taken on? They've showed no interest in doing so. I"},{"t":536,"text":"just think it creates a lot of ambiguity. And I"},{"t":539,"text":"think misleads voters. And actually my concern is that more"},{"t":542,"text":"people would probably be likely to vote no because they"},{"t":544,"text":"see it as pointless, or maybe they stay home, or"},{"t":547,"text":"maybe when they go to the ballot, they don't fill"},{"t":549,"text":"it out because they don't see the point. So for"},{"t":551,"text":"me, I want to hold a genuine referendum, a binding"},{"t":555,"text":"referendum or something that would be, if not binding close"},{"t":559,"text":"to binding. Um, whatever that means, because it's so impossible"},{"t":563,"text":"to say with binding actually means. In theory, a binding"},{"t":565,"text":"referendum would be the best. A temperature check, I don't"},{"t":569,"text":"seem really the point, and I don't understand what the"},{"t":571,"text":"follow - up would be. So I've been disappointed with"},{"t":573,"text":"the province about how they've handled this one, and I"},{"t":575,"text":"think it's disappointed a lot of people. So I think"},{"t":578,"text":"it makes sense to just hold off and maybe hold"},{"t":580,"text":"a binding referendum in 2030, where people's voice will actually"},{"t":583,"text":"matter. So I don't know if I persuaded one of"},{"t":586,"text":"the five folks who voted positively on this last week,"},{"t":590,"text":"but this is my last ditch pitch to say, this"},{"t":594,"text":"is not the right way of doing this. And it's"},{"t":596,"text":"somewhat poor governance. Thank you very much. Anybody else? Colts"},{"t":601,"text":"are Coleman. Let me keep my political sobriety intact. Soberscond"},{"t":608,"text":"thought and all. Um. Are we all disappointed in the"},{"t":612,"text":"Province in not because they are the ones that control"},{"t":616,"text":"the notion of a binding referendum? Of course we're all"},{"t":620,"text":"disappointed. However, the process needs to move forward. The public"},{"t":627,"text":"deserved to be upset with this. Not being as indicative"},{"t":632,"text":"as we want it to be. But we need to"},{"t":637,"text":"also go out and work. If you believe that as"},{"t":643,"text":"municipalities grow, they become. In need of greater direction and"},{"t":651,"text":"greater coherence between the notions. I look forward to 50"},{"t":655,"text":"years from now when I don't think there will be"},{"t":657,"text":"13 municipalities in this region. Um, the process has to"},{"t":661,"text":"carry on. And the public, we have to convince to"},{"t":666,"text":"make their voices felt. So the province can read that."},{"t":671,"text":"The way to do that is for us, for those"},{"t":672,"text":"who believe that amalgamation are coming together of, in this"},{"t":675,"text":"case, Sadnage and Victoria is the right direction for the"},{"t":678,"text":"long - term benefit of future generations. Then we need"},{"t":682,"text":"to go to and convince our publics to vote in"},{"t":685,"text":"that direction. And therefore, I think putting. I had one"},{"t":690,"text":"person say it's a milk toast question. Even at that,"},{"t":694,"text":"it can be indicative to the province that they should"},{"t":697,"text":"get on with the job. I will point out the"},{"t":700,"text":"frustration before we had a chamber of commerce, we had"},{"t":704,"text":"a board of trade. That worked with historic Provincial Governments"},{"t":711,"text":"to get on with a question of bringing municipalities together."},{"t":716,"text":"That's still the goal. I think we still need to"},{"t":718,"text":"work at it. And I understand the frustration of others,"},{"t":721,"text":"but I still think we need to put a question"},{"t":723,"text":"to the public this October. Thank you very much, Councillor"},{"t":727,"text":"Hammond. Well, I've been convinced I'm going to change my"},{"t":731,"text":"vote. Oh wait, you're not wanting my vote. Okay, sorry."},{"t":736,"text":"I've already voted that way. Uh, I wasn't going to"},{"t":737,"text":"say anything, um, about this, but since you brought it"},{"t":740,"text":"up, already I can't get over the number of people"},{"t":743,"text":"who have asked me about this. And they have said"},{"t":745,"text":"to me, uh, isn't this a waste of time? And"},{"t":748,"text":"I said, well, that's up to you. Um, I think"},{"t":751,"text":"this is enormous waste of time. And I am more"},{"t":754,"text":"than happy to have, um, binding decision on this. And"},{"t":759,"text":"otherwise I think the Province is just dicking us around."},{"t":761,"text":"Um, so I'll continue to, um, say no, um, at"},{"t":766,"text":"the doors when I'm running, if I make it that"},{"t":767,"text":"far, to the election, I'll just be telling people, fill"},{"t":772,"text":"your boots. But, um, you know, it's just an enormous"},{"t":775,"text":"waste of time. Thank you Council Gardner. Thank you, Mayor."},{"t":780,"text":"I didn't know this was going to come up again"},{"t":781,"text":"today. And I thank you for bringing it forward. I"},{"t":786,"text":"think one of the really upsetting things about the minister's"},{"t":788,"text":"letter was, uh, they missed the dimension of this missing"},{"t":792,"text":"data, which is the data that and the assessment that's"},{"t":796,"text":"to be done after a vote when you're looking at"},{"t":799,"text":"actual amalgamation. So by thrusting this forward, out of context,"},{"t":804,"text":"in the wrong way, I think it has really sent"},{"t":808,"text":"that the province, I mean, it is a kill letter"},{"t":810,"text":"that ministers sent to us. And I think that's important"},{"t":813,"text":"to realise. And they have, they have made that decision."},{"t":817,"text":"Because it was clear that data was available to the"},{"t":821,"text":"citizens of assembly. They read the data. They sought. They"},{"t":823,"text":"had a presented. The data that they needed for the"},{"t":827,"text":"decision they were to make. The transition data was, of"},{"t":832,"text":"course, not done because. It wasn't there yet. It wasn't"},{"t":837,"text":"supposed to be done until after a binding vote. So"},{"t":842,"text":"as I mentioned, I think this is a denial by"},{"t":844,"text":"the Provincial Government to their own process. And politically for"},{"t":849,"text":"some of the, I know, um, NTP members of the"},{"t":852,"text":"day when this was coming through in 2014 and 2018,"},{"t":856,"text":"they committed to following the process. And I'm very disappointed"},{"t":861,"text":"that it is not. I do not see what is"},{"t":864,"text":"before us. As forwarding the process. It just muddies it"},{"t":869,"text":"further. And, uh, trust has been broken. Thank you. Thank"},{"t":874,"text":"you and thank you to Councillor for bringing it forward"},{"t":876,"text":"again. Most welcome. Councillor Thompson. For making our pitches, I'll"},{"t":882,"text":"make my pitch for folks to change their votes too."},{"t":884,"text":"We all have different reasons. Um, I think it's very"},{"t":888,"text":"understandable to want adequate information about costs, impacts and transition."},{"t":893,"text":"Uh, and also to do First Nations consultations before a"},{"t":896,"text":"binding referendum or any form of decision. And I would"},{"t":901,"text":"just point out that Alberta is getting into trouble for"},{"t":904,"text":"perhaps proceeding with a referendum without consultation of the First"},{"t":909,"text":"Nations. Um, I'd also just point out that it was,"},{"t":914,"text":"I think it is still a misleading question. Um, in"},{"t":917,"text":"the context of a municipal ballot municipal mayors being elected"},{"t":923,"text":"municipal councillors being elected to ask that question, I think"},{"t":927,"text":"will imply to the voters that this is a municipal"},{"t":930,"text":"decision. Um, and it isn't. It's entirely a provincial decision."},{"t":935,"text":"Uh, and I think that the question should have stated"},{"t":938,"text":"that. And I may have voted differently, if that were"},{"t":942,"text":"the case, uh, but it wasn't, uh, so I'll be,"},{"t":946,"text":"um, opposing this again. Thanks. Thank you very much. Anybody"},{"t":951,"text":"else. Well, what the heck. Sure. One last time."},{"t":961,"text":"This for me is very easy. We made a promise"},{"t":964,"text":"to the public. We said that if the citizens assembly"},{"t":969,"text":"made a recommendation, we would put a recommendation on the"},{"t":972,"text":"next available Civic ballot. They made a recommendation. The next"},{"t":979,"text":"available civic ballot is in October. I cannot imagine a"},{"t":985,"text":"Council making that commitment and not following through. The citizens"},{"t":990,"text":"assembly did what we told them to do. Which was,"},{"t":993,"text":"to be fair, also supported in that process by the"},{"t":995,"text":"province and by the District of Santage. So they did"},{"t":998,"text":"their work and they created an enormous amount of information."},{"t":1002,"text":"On which they base their recommendations and all of that"},{"t":1005,"text":"information is available to the public. The information that I"},{"t":1009,"text":"think everyone would like to see about the details of"},{"t":1011,"text":"transition would come after a recommendation from the public. And"},{"t":1018,"text":"only if that recommendation is yes. If the recommendation is"},{"t":1021,"text":"no, we need not spend the time, money and resources"},{"t":1025,"text":"in evaluating what that transition might be. At least knowing"},{"t":1029,"text":"at this table. We'll do that. On the issue of"},{"t":1033,"text":"whether or not this has any influence over the province,"},{"t":1036,"text":"and I agree, the province has pulled the plug on"},{"t":1038,"text":"this being a last step. It would be hard to"},{"t":1044,"text":"imagine any order of government. Who would reject or ignore."},{"t":1053,"text":"The direction of its own voters. Should they declare a"},{"t":1059,"text":"preference. I don't think we should. And I don't think"},{"t":1064,"text":"they will. So clearly I'm going to support this motion."},{"t":1071,"text":"Okay. With that, all those in favor. Councillor Dell, Councillor"},{"t":1076,"text":"Kim, Councillor Loton, myself and Councillor Count Counts for Coleman"},{"t":1080,"text":"in opposition. Councillor Caridona, Councillor Hamilton. I'm going to make"},{"t":1084,"text":"you Hamilton Councillor Gardner and Councillor Thompson. So I believe"},{"t":1088,"text":"that does as it did previously past five to four."},{"t":1092,"text":"Very good. Uh, it is almost exactly noon and I"},{"t":1095,"text":"am aware that the next item is going to generate"},{"t":1097,"text":"some explanation, some questions. And I suggest some debate as"},{"t":1100,"text":"well. So with apologies to our Legion of staff who"},{"t":1103,"text":"are waiting patiently in the back of the anti -"},{"t":1105,"text":"chamber, I'm going to call lunch at this point. And"},{"t":1108,"text":"we'll return at one o'clock. And at that point we"},{"t":1110,"text":"will begin with item H1. Just before I do that,"},{"t":1113,"text":"actually, I can just clean up one item. And that"},{"t":1115,"text":"is G1B, which would usually be the report from today's"},{"t":1118,"text":"Committee of the Whole. There were no items today at"},{"t":1120,"text":"Community of the Whole that required same day consideration. So"},{"t":1122,"text":"we need not deal with that. And as I say,"},{"t":1124,"text":"we will return at one o'clock and begin with item"},{"t":1126,"text":"H1. After doing everyone and welcome back to Victoria C"},{"t":1131,"text":"Council's July 9th meeting of Council following Committee of the"},{"t":1135,"text":"Whole, our daytime council meeting. Before we left on our"},{"t":1140,"text":"lunch break, we had arrived at item H in our"},{"t":1143,"text":"agenda. These are bylaws. There are two sets of them,"},{"t":1146,"text":"but the first one up. Is in fact the amendment"},{"t":1149,"text":"bylaw for Off Street Mobility Regulations. This wasn't on the"},{"t":1153,"text":"consent agenda, but it was asked to be removed by"},{"t":1154,"text":"several council members. And so I am going to check"},{"t":1158,"text":"to you folks have a presentation or are you here"},{"t":1160,"text":"just for questions you do? Very good. All right, then"},{"t":1163,"text":"over to you, please do introduce your very large team"},{"t":1168,"text":"for Council and the public and then proceed when you're"},{"t":1170,"text":"ready. Perfect. Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. My name is"},{"t":1173,"text":"Mike Angrove, Acting Manager of Planning and Regulatory Services. And"},{"t":1177,"text":"I'm up here a little crowded today with Planner Chris"},{"t":1180,"text":"Dudley and Planner, Dustin Bright to my left, both of"},{"t":1184,"text":"whom is their first time before council today. And to"},{"t":1187,"text":"my right, our transportation planners, Fred Billingham with the City"},{"t":1190,"text":"and Dan Casey, our consultant from urban systems. We have"},{"t":1193,"text":"a brief update presentation, after which we would be happy"},{"t":1196,"text":"to answer any questions. So with that, I'll hand it"},{"t":1199,"text":"over to Mr. Dudley. Welcome. Thank you very much for"},{"t":1203,"text":"having us today. We're very excited to be bringing forward."},{"t":1205,"text":"Please put your mic towards you so that we can"},{"t":1207,"text":"hear you a little bit. Is that better? All right."},{"t":1208,"text":"Thank you very much for having us with you today."},{"t":1210,"text":"We're very excited to be bringing forward these amendments. So"},{"t":1215,"text":"today we will briefly cover the Council direction staff received,"},{"t":1219,"text":"review the new regulatory approach. Go over the focused stakeholder"},{"t":1222,"text":"engagement results and introduce the amendments for the zoning regulation"},{"t":1226,"text":"bylaw, zoning bylaw 2018, and the land use procedures bylaw."},{"t":1230,"text":"Mr. Dudley, I'm going to interrupt you and just ask"},{"t":1232,"text":"you to pull your mic a little more closely to"},{"t":1234,"text":"you as you are a very soft spoken, which we"},{"t":1237,"text":"appreciate. But we'd like to hear everything you're saying. All"},{"t":1239,"text":"right, thank you. For refresh on some of the terms"},{"t":1246,"text":"we're discussing today, off - street mobility includes parking on"},{"t":1249,"text":"private Property and transportation demand management measures are things that"},{"t":1253,"text":"encourage more sustainable travel options like walking, cycling, and transit."},{"t":1258,"text":"We'll likely be referring to those as TDM throughout. So"},{"t":1261,"text":"a little shorthand. The proposed bylaws offer a range of"},{"t":1265,"text":"measures to provide a suite of transportation options for residents,"},{"t":1269,"text":"businesses, and visitors. You may remember that the previous presentation"},{"t":1273,"text":"included work with staff from the transportation department regarding curbside"},{"t":1277,"text":"management strategies. But today's presentation and draft bylaws apply specifically"},{"t":1281,"text":"to off - street parking. Engineering staff are available to"},{"t":1285,"text":"help with questions regarding the off - street parking bylaws,"},{"t":1288,"text":"but on street and curbside policy work is ongoing and"},{"t":1291,"text":"is not anticipated to be back before council until early"},{"t":1295,"text":"2027. To go over the Council Direction. In September 2025,"},{"t":1303,"text":"Council Directed staff to bring forward amendments to the zoning"},{"t":1305,"text":"and land use procedures bylaws. To conduct targeted stakeholder engagement"},{"t":1310,"text":"and to show how feedback from the engagement influenced the"},{"t":1313,"text":"bylaws. That engagement took place in late 2025 and directly"},{"t":1319,"text":"informed the Bylaws before you today. So a bit of"},{"t":1326,"text":"a reminder of why we're here. The updated bylaws respond"},{"t":1329,"text":"to changes in the mobility world that have occurred since"},{"t":1332,"text":"2018, the last time parking regulations were updated. The bylaw"},{"t":1336,"text":"amendments implement new city policies and reflect changes in evolving"},{"t":1340,"text":"travel patterns. This aligns with Council Direction to review parking"},{"t":1344,"text":"every five years. A review cycle staff are seeking direction"},{"t":1347,"text":"to continue to ensure regulations stay up to date and"},{"t":1350,"text":"responsive to trends in the fast - moving world of"},{"t":1353,"text":"mobility. Key changes to the bylaws include updates to the"},{"t":1360,"text":"baseline parking rates built - in parking reductions by area"},{"t":1363,"text":"and TDM, requiring TDM in some geographic areas, introducing cash"},{"t":1368,"text":"in lieu of parking, and introducing optional TDM. Many of"},{"t":1372,"text":"these are refinements to the bylaws that reflect the current"},{"t":1375,"text":"negotiated process between the city and the development community. Making"},{"t":1379,"text":"them into regulations brings needed clarity, flexibility, and predictability to"},{"t":1383,"text":"the development process. Staff currently work with applicants to security"},{"t":1388,"text":"DM when a parking reduction is applied for. But this"},{"t":1391,"text":"negotiation is slow and results in Project Uncertainty. These changes"},{"t":1396,"text":"codify the requirements, the development community is already familiar with"},{"t":1400,"text":"and will save time on permit processing. The next few"},{"t":1405,"text":"slides are an overview of the geographic area updates. These"},{"t":1409,"text":"areas reduce parking requirements in key locations and give clear"},{"t":1413,"text":"expectations for TDM measures. They require or make optional car"},{"t":1418,"text":"share, transit passes, and additional bicycle parking as TDM. In"},{"t":1424,"text":"all instances, cash and lieu of parking is available. And"},{"t":1427,"text":"together, these are the primary tools to pursue a path"},{"t":1430,"text":"to zero parking. Visitor and accessible parking are required at"},{"t":1434,"text":"the baseline supply rate in the proposed areas. And these"},{"t":1438,"text":"new requirements only apply to new developments. Council directed staff"},{"t":1446,"text":"to extend the downtown area to match that of the"},{"t":1449,"text":"downtown core area plan, and this is extended area is"},{"t":1453,"text":"shown in red on the map. In the downtown core"},{"t":1456,"text":"area, there is no standard vehicle parking required, but all"},{"t":1460,"text":"three TDM measures are required. In the industrial reserve areas,"},{"t":1468,"text":"there is no standard vehicle parking required. And to offer"},{"t":1471,"text":"a correction on this slide, no TDM is required in"},{"t":1474,"text":"the industrial reserve lines. In major mobility hubs or town"},{"t":1482,"text":"centres, there is a 50 percent reduction."},{"t":1493,"text":"In the transit priority areas, which is a 200 metre"},{"t":1496,"text":"catchment from the transit priority network, shown in blue on"},{"t":1499,"text":"the map. And elsewhere in the city or other areas,"},{"t":1507,"text":"the standard baseline parking supply rate is in effect, but"},{"t":1509,"text":"there is now full flexibility of optional TDM and cash"},{"t":1513,"text":"and lieu. This suite of options offers many paths to"},{"t":1516,"text":"reach parking targets or zero - parked projects before pursuing"},{"t":1520,"text":"a bespoke and negotiated parking variants. Much of what is"},{"t":1524,"text":"included here is a response to feedback, staff heard through"},{"t":1526,"text":"the engagement process and through permit applications. It adds certainty"},{"t":1531,"text":"to the application process by clearly defining TDM requirements and"},{"t":1534,"text":"streamlines the parking review by CODEFING the TDM process. As"},{"t":1540,"text":"has been mentioned, the draft bylaws introduce optional TDM measures"},{"t":1544,"text":"to reduce off - street parking through defined, standardized options"},{"t":1547,"text":"with a set percentage reduction. These are available to all"},{"t":1552,"text":"existing buildings and proposed developments. All of these options are"},{"t":1555,"text":"familiar to the development community as they are largely based"},{"t":1558,"text":"on the requirements of recent and ongoing development projects. Cash"},{"t":1566,"text":"and lieu is also being introduced. This is fully optional"},{"t":1569,"text":"and is paid on a per parking space rate. It"},{"t":1572,"text":"allows applicants to reduce parking requirements by contributing to a"},{"t":1576,"text":"City fund that supports the development of parking, sorry, public"},{"t":1579,"text":"barking and active transportation. And some other keynotes, as has"},{"t":1586,"text":"been mentioned, the most significant update is formalizing what is"},{"t":1589,"text":"already standard practice today regarding TDM, but put into clear"},{"t":1593,"text":"regulations. As has been mentioned or affordable housing is exempt"},{"t":1597,"text":"from baseline parking requirements. Developments are required to provide visitor"},{"t":1601,"text":"accessible and bicycle parking. Other regulation updates are included to"},{"t":1606,"text":"enhance EV charging, loading stalls, and Bicycle parking requirements. And"},{"t":1611,"text":"the land use procedures bylaw is being updated to delegate"},{"t":1613,"text":"variances to staff - related to these mobility regulations. I'll"},{"t":1617,"text":"now pass you over to my colleague, Mr. Bright, for"},{"t":1619,"text":"a summary of the focused stakeholder engagement. Thank you, Mr."},{"t":1628,"text":"Dudley. I'm Aaron Council. Moving on to targeted engagement. Staff"},{"t":1634,"text":"used multiple communication channels to inform the community and stakeholders"},{"t":1639,"text":"about the proposed changes, including a dedicated engagement webpage, a"},{"t":1645,"text":"dedicated email inbox, an update in the fall 2025 Connect"},{"t":1649,"text":"newsletter and hand bills given to commercial loading permit applicants"},{"t":1653,"text":"this past winter. Staff also invited industry partners and organisations"},{"t":1658,"text":"to attend in - person and online engagement sessions from"},{"t":1662,"text":"October to December 2025 to learn about their proposed changes"},{"t":1666,"text":"and provide valued feedback. During that three - month period,"},{"t":1672,"text":"the City held four in - person and 10 online"},{"t":1675,"text":"engagement events with over 30 organisations participating. Participating organisations included"},{"t":1682,"text":"Representatives from the Chamber of Commerce and the downtown business"},{"t":1685,"text":"association. Affordable housing providers, arts organisations, development industry representatives, BC"},{"t":1693,"text":"Transit, TDM providers and advocacy groups, and the City's own"},{"t":1697,"text":"accessible advisory committee. Across those 14 engagement events, we heard"},{"t":1704,"text":"general support for the overall proposed approach. For allowing market"},{"t":1709,"text":"- driven supply of standard parking in the downtown core"},{"t":1711,"text":"area for affordable housing providers and for small - scale"},{"t":1715,"text":"residential infill. And for making the application and variance process"},{"t":1719,"text":"more flexible and streamlined. As for what concerns we heard,"},{"t":1725,"text":"engagement participants express concerns about the proposed maximum parking regulations,"},{"t":1730,"text":"potential impacts of reduced visitor parking requirements on clients and"},{"t":1734,"text":"customers. How the proposed regulations would apply to changes of"},{"t":1738,"text":"use within existing buildings and the costs associated with TDM"},{"t":1742,"text":"measures, bicycle parking, EV charging requirements, and cash and lie"},{"t":1746,"text":"of parking. Other feedback included support for the proposed TDM"},{"t":1754,"text":"approach from BC Transit, capital bike and car share providers."},{"t":1758,"text":"Concerns from downtown businesses that the development of existing private"},{"t":1762,"text":"parking could have negative impacts on customer and employee parking."},{"t":1766,"text":"Concerns over the potential loss of on - street parking"},{"t":1769,"text":"spaces and safety of CityRun parcades. And interest from some"},{"t":1773,"text":"in the development community for additional TDM measure options, such"},{"t":1777,"text":"as BikeShare and EVO CARSHARE. Details of all engagement feedback"},{"t":1781,"text":"can of course be found in attachment T. Engagement, the"},{"t":1787,"text":"Project Team and Project Consultants analyse and considered all feedback."},{"t":1791,"text":"And the following revisions were made. Firstly, maximum parking regulations"},{"t":1796,"text":"were removed entirely from the proposed approach. Simplifying the regulation"},{"t":1800,"text":"and providing greater flexibility. Secondly, the Revised Approach retains the"},{"t":1805,"text":"existing higher visitor parking rates to address downtime business and"},{"t":1810,"text":"arts community concerns. Thirdly, the approach now exempts permitted changes"},{"t":1815,"text":"of use within existing buildings from providing additional mobility requirements."},{"t":1820,"text":"Significantly easy in regulatory requirements for new businesses. The Revised"},{"t":1828,"text":"Approach also removes parking and TDM requirements for small -"},{"t":1831,"text":"scale residential infill developments. Except that when... Sorry. When parking"},{"t":1837,"text":"is provided, the first stall shall be constructed to accessible"},{"t":1841,"text":"standards. And lastly, the revised recommendations modestly increase oversized bicycle"},{"t":1848,"text":"parking requirements, while also permitting Lyft - assisted stacked bike"},{"t":1852,"text":"rack systems for cost and space efficiencies. Finally, a few"},{"t":1858,"text":"other considerations for council. One, the recommendations before you include"},{"t":1863,"text":"optional cash and lieu of TDM measures. This is limited"},{"t":1867,"text":"to the Kashare vehicle and bicycle parking TDMs. To provide"},{"t":1871,"text":"flexibility for development applicants and car shared vehicle placement. Second,"},{"t":1877,"text":"per recent Council Direction, urban industrial lands properties would be"},{"t":1882,"text":"exempt from standard vehicle parking requirements under this revised approach."},{"t":1886,"text":"Third, while no additional or enhanced TDM paths to zero"},{"t":1890,"text":"parking citywide are being proposed to here today, zero standard"},{"t":1894,"text":"parking is achievable under the proposed approach in the downtown"},{"t":1897,"text":"core area. The urban industrial lands reserve. And for small"},{"t":1901,"text":"- scale residential infill of three to six units. As"},{"t":1904,"text":"mobility options and observed trends evolve, additional TDM measures and"},{"t":1909,"text":"the expansion of geographic area reductions will be considered. Next,"},{"t":1914,"text":"the Councillor port before you includes a recommendation to direct"},{"t":1917,"text":"staff to investigate options for encouraging public parking and new"},{"t":1921,"text":"private developments downtown. This is in direct response to concerns"},{"t":1925,"text":"from the downtown business community regarding the loss of parking."},{"t":1929,"text":"And lastly, if council were to adopt these zoning bylaw"},{"t":1932,"text":"amendments, a six - month transition period will be provided"},{"t":1936,"text":"during which time existing regulations will still apply. This will"},{"t":1940,"text":"give applicants time to become familiar with and prepare for"},{"t":1943,"text":"the amended regulations. Applicants will also have the ability to"},{"t":1947,"text":"opt - in sooner if they wish to do so."},{"t":1953,"text":"As for monitoring and review of the proposed changes, staff"},{"t":1957,"text":"will monitor their implementation and impacts, and we'll report back"},{"t":1960,"text":"to Council as needed or directed. This will include a"},{"t":1964,"text":"report back to Council within five years or sooner on"},{"t":1967,"text":"Changed Your Mobility Trends and needs within the city, and"},{"t":1970,"text":"any proposed amendments to better meet those needs. In conclusion,"},{"t":1975,"text":"Council's next steps would be to one, consider giving first"},{"t":1978,"text":"and second reading so the two zoning bylaw amendments bylaws,"},{"t":1983,"text":"rather, before council. Two, consider giving first, second, and third"},{"t":1986,"text":"readings of the land use procedures amendment bylaw. And three,"},{"t":1991,"text":"if those readings are given, either refer those amendment bylaws"},{"t":1994,"text":"for consideration at a public hearing, or elect a wave"},{"t":1997,"text":"of public hearing. And with that, that concludes our presentation."},{"t":2002,"text":"Thank you, Mayor and Council, and we'd be happy to"},{"t":2003,"text":"take your questions. Next, thank you. We'll let us first"},{"t":2006,"text":"go to questions. We'll start with Councillor Caridona. Thank you,"},{"t":2012,"text":"Mayor, and through the staff. Thank you for this presentation"},{"t":2014,"text":"for all the work you've done on this important and"},{"t":2016,"text":"complicated matter. I want to start by talking about the"},{"t":2021,"text":"transportation demand management that's required that would be required in"},{"t":2026,"text":"all developments. It's one of the pieces of feedback I"},{"t":2028,"text":"gave when we talked about this whenever it was a"},{"t":2031,"text":"year ago, was that we were still thinking about this"},{"t":2033,"text":"in somewhat either or terms. Either you have a lot"},{"t":2036,"text":"of TDM and lower parked building, or the parking and"},{"t":2040,"text":"the TDMs are optional. In my reading of the bylaws,"},{"t":2043,"text":"there is some basic TDM requirements, but in the staff"},{"t":2049,"text":"presentation here, it sort of implies in some areas the"},{"t":2051,"text":"not. So can you clarify what is the baseline assumption"},{"t":2054,"text":"for TDMs, even if you have a relatively high parked"},{"t":2057,"text":"development? It was good to take that question. Mr. Angron."},{"t":2062,"text":"Leading here. So through the mayor, it depends on which"},{"t":2066,"text":"geographic area you're Property is located in. So for the"},{"t":2072,"text":"transit - oriented area, the downtown core, major mobility hubs,"},{"t":2077,"text":"and transit priority areas. There are required TDMs. And depending"},{"t":2081,"text":"on where you are, there's different tiers of how many"},{"t":2083,"text":"required TDMs you need to provide such as transit passes"},{"t":2087,"text":"and car share, and then moving out to the other"},{"t":2091,"text":"area. There is no required TDM, but there is optional."},{"t":2094,"text":"And there's also optional four. The whole city. Okay, so"},{"t":2098,"text":"that's my question is, why did we make it optional?"},{"t":2101,"text":"I mean, if our assumption is that, I mean, what"},{"t":2104,"text":"accounts for a relatively high parking ratio these days is"},{"t":2107,"text":"like 0. 75, 0. 8, maybe. 1, but we can't"},{"t":2110,"text":"present that everyone in a new building is going to"},{"t":2112,"text":"own an operated private vehicle, which can't presume that anymore."},{"t":2118,"text":"So my query is about why we're not requiring those"},{"t":2121,"text":"buildings. Even the ones that are in some residential part"},{"t":2125,"text":"of the city and have a relatively high parking ratio,"},{"t":2127,"text":"but they're not required to do bike parking. Why? We'd"},{"t":2133,"text":"like to take that. Mr. Billiam. Thank you through the"},{"t":2138,"text":"mat. They would still be required to provide bike parking"},{"t":2141,"text":"as standard. That's part of the schedule C standards. And"},{"t":2144,"text":"then some of those areas that we, I think we"},{"t":2147,"text":"identified them as other areas. They would essentially, they fall"},{"t":2151,"text":"outside of a reasonable cashmere for, for instance, the transit"},{"t":2154,"text":"network. So it is likely the primary. TDM mode, like"},{"t":2159,"text":"old sensitive transportation mode, just like to be by bike."},{"t":2161,"text":"And we have that bicycle parking as standard through schedule"},{"t":2164,"text":"C. We're also seeing an expansion of the car share"},{"t":2168,"text":"fleets across those areas as well. So they should be,"},{"t":2170,"text":"we're hoping to have achieved that kind of build out"},{"t":2175,"text":"of their car share fleets as well across those areas"},{"t":2177,"text":"to provide them access to those. Okay, so if I've"},{"t":2179,"text":"understood correctly, then when you say that TDM is not"},{"t":2181,"text":"required, that's optional, mandatory TDM around bike parking. But you're"},{"t":2187,"text":"talking about the next layer up of like car share."},{"t":2189,"text":"But then in that sense, TDM is in fact required."},{"t":2192,"text":"So I'm not, it's maybe just a semantic issue here,"},{"t":2194,"text":"but is TDM in fact required in all new development."},{"t":2198,"text":"Mr. Rengrove. Through the mayor, I think, yes, in terms"},{"t":2203,"text":"of bike parking, that is required, but I think that"},{"t":2205,"text":"has been a standard of the city for quite some"},{"t":2207,"text":"time now. We do require that. Um, we don't necessarily"},{"t":2210,"text":"consider it a TDM in our tables, but it is"},{"t":2215,"text":"a way to, um, move people away from their cars."},{"t":2218,"text":"Um, so I think a standard practice is to include"},{"t":2222,"text":"bicycle parking and then a specific TDM related to bicycle"},{"t":2225,"text":"parking within our new parking regulations is to require more"},{"t":2229,"text":"bicycle parking or provide more bicycle parking. Okay. Do you,"},{"t":2233,"text":"through the mayor, do you see any risk with not"},{"t":2236,"text":"requiring parking maximums. We would like to take that. Ah,"},{"t":2244,"text":"yes, go ahead. Mr. Handy. Uh, through you, Matt, we"},{"t":2249,"text":"very, very rarely, this is something we re - examined"},{"t":2253,"text":"and through the consultation with our key stakeholders. We rarely"},{"t":2257,"text":"get over parked projects. Um, so I think the risk"},{"t":2263,"text":"there is small. But another specific concern that was raised"},{"t":2268,"text":"by, um, downtown, um, business organisations and business representatives was,"},{"t":2274,"text":"if we put a maximum on parking, and let's say"},{"t":2276,"text":"somebody's going to invest in developing and ground parquet, this"},{"t":2281,"text":"would, um, inhibit the ability of that particular developer to"},{"t":2285,"text":"maybe engage with, or look at opportunities, providing additional public"},{"t":2290,"text":"parking. You know, so, you know, if somebody came along"},{"t":2294,"text":"and said, okay, well, we're going to provide parking for"},{"t":2296,"text":"our mixed use development. And then we want to provide"},{"t":2298,"text":"some extra parking, which it's going to be run by"},{"t":2301,"text":"robbins. And it's going to be available for the public."},{"t":2303,"text":"And it's going to help businesses downtown and drag people"},{"t":2305,"text":"into the city centre from outside the region. They would"},{"t":2309,"text":"need a variance for that if we had a maximum,"},{"t":2312,"text":"um, parking regulation. So we took that feedback. We looked"},{"t":2315,"text":"at the risk and we thought that this was the"},{"t":2317,"text":"best outcome. Thanks. That all makes sense to me. Um,"},{"t":2320,"text":"moving on, I want to talk about the cash and"},{"t":2322,"text":"lie question, which did get a lot of criticism during"},{"t":2325,"text":"the engagement. And I also want to just daylight some"},{"t":2328,"text":"of the conversations. I've been having with staff over the"},{"t":2331,"text":"last couple of days because I've been trying to drill"},{"t":2332,"text":"down onto this issue. So staff will know the answers"},{"t":2335,"text":"to this. But for the advocation of the public and"},{"t":2337,"text":"for the rest of the Council, so the way it"},{"t":2340,"text":"works right now, if I've understood it correctly, is that"},{"t":2344,"text":"it's optional to do some TDM. And that's great if"},{"t":2348,"text":"you can do it. And if you can't, you have"},{"t":2349,"text":"the cash and lie option. You can send sort of"},{"t":2351,"text":"quote unquote buy your way out of providing parking. Or"},{"t":2354,"text":"there can be some combination between cash and lieu and"},{"t":2357,"text":"TDM. Why is it that we cannot require TDM in"},{"t":2362,"text":"the first instance? And then once you've satisfied all of"},{"t":2365,"text":"that, then whatever's remaining, go to the cash and lieu."},{"t":2369,"text":"What is the barrier to that? Mr. Engel. Uh, through"},{"t":2374,"text":"the mayor. So the way it's written in the local"},{"t":2376,"text":"government act is once we write in Castian Liu into"},{"t":2379,"text":"our bylaws, it just has to be provided as an"},{"t":2381,"text":"option. We can't keep it behind something else. So the,"},{"t":2386,"text":"it's the applicant's option, whether or not to use cash"},{"t":2389,"text":"and lie, but we can't say it's only open once"},{"t":2391,"text":"you provide your TDM. And what is the barrier? Thank"},{"t":2395,"text":"you for that. What is the barrier to having a"},{"t":2397,"text":"relatively expensive cash and lieu up to a certain amount?"},{"t":2402,"text":"And then beyond that witch, beyond its impossible to satisfy"},{"t":2405,"text":"the requirements with TDM. That is, say once you've, once"},{"t":2408,"text":"you've exhausted your TDM options, you've got the bike parking,"},{"t":2410,"text":"you've got the moto, you got the bus passes. Why"},{"t":2413,"text":"couldn't the cash and lie cost decrease at that time."},{"t":2418,"text":"So that we're not perversely punishing the people who are"},{"t":2420,"text":"doing the right thing by doing all the TDMs. Mr."},{"t":2424,"text":"Angrove. Uh, so through the Mayor, specific instances in which"},{"t":2432,"text":"we're allowed to use cash and lie. And that's one"},{"t":2435,"text":"that we're not fully confident in that we're allowed to"},{"t":2438,"text":"do. Specifically Cash and Luke can be, uh, have different"},{"t":2442,"text":"rates based on uses, zones, geographic areas. But the local"},{"t":2447,"text":"government act does not specifically say it could be used"},{"t":2451,"text":"depending on how much TDM you provide. Okay. So for"},{"t":2455,"text":"me personally, I would like to see some version of"},{"t":2457,"text":"this go forward today, but would it be safe to"},{"t":2460,"text":"say that there could be more work done over the"},{"t":2462,"text":"next six months or however to come up with some"},{"t":2464,"text":"kind of policy solution. That is funneling people into TDM"},{"t":2468,"text":"in the first instance. And then the cash and leave"},{"t":2470,"text":"becomes more like the backup or after you've exhausted all"},{"t":2474,"text":"of your TDM. Can you, is it possible to conceptualize"},{"t":2478,"text":"that that is a solvable policy problem. The stranger. Through"},{"t":2483,"text":"the mayor. Yes. I think that would be the way"},{"t":2484,"text":"to go about it is, uh, allow this to proceed"},{"t":2487,"text":"today. And then we can go back and discuss internally"},{"t":2490,"text":"how that could be solved. Okay. Um, so I'll have"},{"t":2493,"text":"more to say when it's on the floor. Okay. Very"},{"t":2495,"text":"good. Other questions. Questions Councillor Coleman. Thank you. Um, and"},{"t":2501,"text":"thank you for extensive work on this. I have a"},{"t":2504,"text":"series of questions. The first, um, it was mentioned earlier"},{"t":2508,"text":"that CAR free now. In Victoria. That means 75 percent"},{"t":2515,"text":"do have cars or vehicles of some sort. Do we"},{"t":2518,"text":"know what that number was the non - CAR use"},{"t":2522,"text":"20 years ago. In the City of Victoria? What's been"},{"t":2525,"text":"the growth rate. Or 50 years ago."},{"t":2540,"text":"Through the mass. So the earliest statistics we have are"},{"t":2543,"text":"back from 2011 where I think that's when the capital"},{"t":2545,"text":"region district started doing their, um, travel to work, averaging"},{"t":2549,"text":"destination survey data. Um, and we have, I don't have"},{"t":2554,"text":"the exact number of calfre households from then available. Um,"},{"t":2558,"text":"but the car ownership data, uh, so vehicle ownership per"},{"t":2561,"text":"household in 2011 was 1. 05 vehicles per household. And"},{"t":2566,"text":"in 2022, which is the most recent year we have"},{"t":2569,"text":"data. It was, um, zero two. So it's remained fairly"},{"t":2573,"text":"consistent at around one vehicle per household. Thank you. Um,"},{"t":2579,"text":"part of the, I mean, my mother lived here for."},{"t":2584,"text":"30 years or so. Never had a car. But her"},{"t":2587,"text":"kids did. They lived out in other areas. Um, I"},{"t":2590,"text":"suspect there's always been a significant population that haven't had"},{"t":2594,"text":"vehicles. And so we can't hold out a percentage now"},{"t":2600,"text":"and think that it's determinative of change. If I take"},{"t":2604,"text":"a look at the multimodal share, that triangle. How has"},{"t":2610,"text":"the, has there been growth in those areas? Because we"},{"t":2613,"text":"know that, um, the transit use at the moment is"},{"t":2617,"text":"about seven and a half to eight percent of all"},{"t":2620,"text":"people moving. And their noble goal, I think by 2050"},{"t":2623,"text":"is to get to 15 percent Can you give me"},{"t":2625,"text":"the gradations of use. And the change that we might"},{"t":2629,"text":"project for the whole multimodal share, that triangle. Mr. Will."},{"t":2639,"text":"Yeah, through the math. Thanks. Um, we have some, some"},{"t":2643,"text":"mocha targets in go Victoria, the cities mobility strategy. I"},{"t":2648,"text":"think some of those targets are, for instance, to, um,"},{"t":2650,"text":"to double transit ridership. And from this, for the city"},{"t":2653,"text":"itself, that was from a starting base of around 14t"},{"t":2656,"text":"percent. We also have, um, goals to, obviously, provide better"},{"t":2662,"text":"access to, um, the AAA cycling network. So it's within,"},{"t":2667,"text":"um, I think it's 200 metres of every household and"},{"t":2671,"text":"to provide it that way. Yeah. So we don't, I"},{"t":2675,"text":"think transit is any actual writership target we have as"},{"t":2678,"text":"a city. But the general goals in COVID - or"},{"t":2682,"text":"to provide better access to car share vehicles and then"},{"t":2685,"text":"to reduce kind of reliance on private vehicles. Okay. Thank"},{"t":2688,"text":"you. Because what we're trying to deal with or understand"},{"t":2692,"text":"is what will the use be and the need for"},{"t":2698,"text":"parking or non parking 15, 25, 50 years from now."},{"t":2702,"text":"Um. If I can move just quickly to cash in"},{"t":2706,"text":"lieu. What do we have of value that we ascribe"},{"t":2710,"text":"to, excuse me, a parking stone. Recognising it's an unfair"},{"t":2718,"text":"question. It's a theoretical and there's a range of different"},{"t":2720,"text":"responses. But Mr. Casey through the mayor. Yeah. It's a"},{"t":2724,"text":"great question and a very difficult one to give a"},{"t":2726,"text":"concrete answer on. I think we've done enough research to"},{"t":2730,"text":"understand the very significant difference in costs between a surface"},{"t":2733,"text":"parking stall as opposed to, say, a structured parking stall."},{"t":2737,"text":"We know that structured stalls can be 100, 000 dollars"},{"t":2740,"text":"per stall and more. And so this cationally rate that's"},{"t":2744,"text":"been brought forward at 35, 000 dollars per stall is"},{"t":2747,"text":"not necessarily meant to reflect the cost of a structured"},{"t":2750,"text":"stall or a surface stall. It's more about the, um,"},{"t":2754,"text":"opportunity cost and introducing a level of flexibility. And well,"},{"t":2758,"text":"and the reason I bring it up is quite often,"},{"t":2761,"text":"we are presented with the argument that construction is more"},{"t":2764,"text":"expensive than it used to be. We need more units"},{"t":2767,"text":"in town. It will be cheaper if we don't have"},{"t":2770,"text":"to provide parking. We now crop off if we say"},{"t":2775,"text":"the, you don't have to provide parking. We get 17,"},{"t":2778,"text":"500. The range between each parking stall is somewhere between"},{"t":2783,"text":"surface lot and structured up to 100, 000. I don't"},{"t":2789,"text":"think that our 17, 500 doesn't go to making the"},{"t":2793,"text":"units cheaper. There's a gap that in there that we"},{"t":2797,"text":"should be able to target and say, how do we"},{"t":2799,"text":"do something that would. Project that for the next 10"},{"t":2803,"text":"years, the each apartment unit was 150 dollars cheaper a"},{"t":2806,"text":"month. And I don't know if it sits in there."},{"t":2810,"text":"And I, and I recognise it's very complex, but we"},{"t":2812,"text":"need to have that discussion at some point. Do you"},{"t":2815,"text":"have a question, Council? Are we having going to have"},{"t":2818,"text":"that discussion. Is that part of your future planning for"},{"t":2821,"text":"policy advice. Mr. Engrove. Through the mayor, uh, short answer"},{"t":2831,"text":"is no. It's very difficult to try and capture that"},{"t":2835,"text":"money. Um, we under the local government actor are restrained"},{"t":2839,"text":"by what we can do with cash and low money."},{"t":2842,"text":"It has to go to very specific transportation based needs."},{"t":2844,"text":"Um, so then it would rely on the developer to"},{"t":2847,"text":"provide those costs down to the tenants or to the"},{"t":2850,"text":"future purchasers. And in order for us to regulate that,"},{"t":2853,"text":"it would require housing agreements. I was generally have to"},{"t":2855,"text":"get Council approvals. And it's not fully clear for even"},{"t":2859,"text":"allowed to take those housing agreements for this sort of"},{"t":2863,"text":"thing. Uh, so I think the idea would be that"},{"t":2869,"text":"developers will get these cost savings. Uh, and when the"},{"t":2873,"text":"market is healthy, uh, developers are going to be competing"},{"t":2876,"text":"against you at each other. And this allows them to,"},{"t":2880,"text":"I mean, I don't undercut each other. And that's when"},{"t":2882,"text":"the savings could be passed on. Mr. Andy. Yes, Mr."},{"t":2888,"text":"Hand. Thank you through you, Matt. I'll just add that,"},{"t":2891,"text":"um, one of the commitments and actually directions from Council"},{"t":2895,"text":"that came out of the previous report was recognising that,"},{"t":2899,"text":"um, mobility regulations are somewhat more of a living document"},{"t":2903,"text":"these days. And, um, the mobility world is quite dynamic."},{"t":2907,"text":"If we went back five or six years, I don't"},{"t":2909,"text":"think we could have foreseen all of the changes that"},{"t":2911,"text":"have occurred, you know, with, um, with the pandemic and"},{"t":2916,"text":"some of these mobility changes that have happened, happened since"},{"t":2920,"text":"we've made a commitment to report back within a minimum"},{"t":2922,"text":"of five years with a review and update to the"},{"t":2925,"text":"regulations and who knows what will happen in the policy"},{"t":2929,"text":"environment or the mobility environment and that time. So, um,"},{"t":2932,"text":"some of these conversations that we're having today, um, like"},{"t":2935,"text":"the point that's made may not be something that we"},{"t":2937,"text":"can tackle now, legislatively. There may be some barriers, but"},{"t":2941,"text":"it certainly can be something we can consider as part"},{"t":2943,"text":"of future report bucks. Thank you for that. Um, we"},{"t":2949,"text":"dealt not very long ago with an application on Academy"},{"t":2952,"text":"close that was zero parking. And Council decided at the"},{"t":2959,"text":"time to put a notice on title that purchasers and"},{"t":2966,"text":"future purchasers would be given advanced warning that there was"},{"t":2968,"text":"no parking. Have we considered doing that for future applications"},{"t":2972,"text":"where we have zero parking. We'd like to take that."},{"t":2979,"text":"Mr. Handy. Through the man, no, we haven't, it's not"},{"t":2983,"text":"something we've contemplated. Thank you. Other questions. Councillor Gardner. Are"},{"t":2991,"text":"we allowed only one time to speak since it's counsel."},{"t":2995,"text":"You have 10 minutes to ask questions and make your"},{"t":2998,"text":"final comments. When the motions are on the floor, that's"},{"t":3001,"text":"when you are limited to only one time to speak."},{"t":3003,"text":"Okay. So we can split our. Thank you. That wasn't"},{"t":3007,"text":"clear. Okay. Um, thank you here presentation. And more so"},{"t":3012,"text":"thank you for that report. It clarified a lot as"},{"t":3014,"text":"to what the direction was. I'm going to go backwards"},{"t":3018,"text":"with my last comment first because it has to do"},{"t":3019,"text":"with the in Loop policy. And what worries me about"},{"t":3025,"text":"it is the cash may appear sufficient. I'm not going"},{"t":3027,"text":"to argue about the amounts. But it leaves the residential"},{"t":3030,"text":"area receiving in a new development with a greater Off"},{"t":3034,"text":"Street parking problem since you cannot spend it in that"},{"t":3038,"text":"area. So how do we address that? That the, uh,"},{"t":3042,"text":"some of those other areas in that map are the"},{"t":3044,"text":"ones who are going to be paying the price for"},{"t":3045,"text":"it in that they're going to have more people using"},{"t":3048,"text":"their street parking and you can't put, not you. The"},{"t":3051,"text":"City can't put in a facility to come back to"},{"t":3054,"text":"that. Cause the facility can't be on the street. I"},{"t":3058,"text":"mean, when I read what you said was in the"},{"t":3060,"text":"act, can someone explain that to me? We'd like to"},{"t":3063,"text":"take that question. Go ahead, Mr. Casey. Yeah. It's a"},{"t":3067,"text":"really good, uh, comment or question. I think, um, you're"},{"t":3071,"text":"absolutely right the way that this has been brought forward"},{"t":3074,"text":"is it would be a single reserve fund that would"},{"t":3076,"text":"apply citywide. And so, you know, a site in a"},{"t":3079,"text":"particular neighbourhood. There's no guarantee that necessarily the funds that"},{"t":3082,"text":"are collected as cash and lead would be spent there."},{"t":3085,"text":"So it does leave a bit of a potential gap"},{"t":3087,"text":"there. I think the hope is funds that are collected"},{"t":3090,"text":"are either contributed toward a reserve fund for the sake"},{"t":3093,"text":"of providing off - street public parking in future or"},{"t":3096,"text":"toward, um, sustainable transportation infrastructure. And especially on the transportation"},{"t":3102,"text":"infrastructure side that the benefit that comes with those investments"},{"t":3106,"text":"isn't necessarily localized in neighbourhoods specific that it's sort of"},{"t":3110,"text":"more of a, whether it's supportive of transit, supportive of"},{"t":3113,"text":"cycling, that it's, um, infrastructure that sort of, uh, results"},{"t":3117,"text":"in more people choosing sustainable modes and fewer driving. And"},{"t":3120,"text":"so that impact is less localized and more citywide. Not"},{"t":3124,"text":"necessarily suggesting we go there, because I understand this has"},{"t":3128,"text":"been challenging. But other communities have prescribed a whole series"},{"t":3133,"text":"of reserve funds that are specific to certain neighbourhoods or"},{"t":3137,"text":"certain parts of the city. So that's an avenue that"},{"t":3139,"text":"has been done elsewhere. It'd have to sort of, uh,"},{"t":3142,"text":"remind myself where that was, um, but it has been"},{"t":3144,"text":"done before to get at the exact point you're suggesting"},{"t":3148,"text":"where it's the impacts are felt in one neighbourhood, but"},{"t":3151,"text":"the investment's not necessarily made there. Thank you. We just"},{"t":3153,"text":"did that this morning with park money. And so I"},{"t":3159,"text":"find this really problematic. So I just wanted to make"},{"t":3161,"text":"that clear that we do do that for some things."},{"t":3164,"text":"As I said, it was done this morning with park"},{"t":3165,"text":"money. And now it's not going to be done for"},{"t":3168,"text":"the people who are going to be bearing the cost"},{"t":3171,"text":"of problematic parking on the street. So thank you for"},{"t":3174,"text":"that. Um. I'm very concerned about the small scale development"},{"t":3181,"text":"concept of no parking there. Because again, the cost will"},{"t":3185,"text":"be on that particular block wherever there is a three"},{"t":3188,"text":"to six story townhouse. And so some of it might"},{"t":3193,"text":"be able to give or something else. But it's going"},{"t":3195,"text":"to be exempted from any parking requirements. And I can't"},{"t":3201,"text":"really support that. And I'm not too sure how you're"},{"t":3203,"text":"going to apply that. What I mean is will it"},{"t":3207,"text":"apply to a 10 unit townhouse. What are we doing"},{"t":3209,"text":"with all this. Who'd like to take that question. Mr."},{"t":3216,"text":"Dudley. Through the mayor, thank you for the question through"},{"t":3221,"text":"the mayor. Thank you for the question. Um, would you"},{"t":3223,"text":"like to just start off by highlighting that introducing, uh,"},{"t":3226,"text":"these measures is providing a flexibility that we currently don't"},{"t":3229,"text":"have in the regulations. So it's really about providing more"},{"t":3232,"text":"optionality for those developments going in. Sort of anecdotally as"},{"t":3237,"text":"well with staff. When we see these, um, three to"},{"t":3240,"text":"six units scale developments, most of them are coming in"},{"t":3243,"text":"with a minimum of parking as we have had quite"},{"t":3246,"text":"extensive feedback from the community that the development community that"},{"t":3250,"text":"they're not marketable. If they don't have parking spaces. So"},{"t":3253,"text":"they can sit for quite a while. So there is"},{"t":3254,"text":"the market is already making that decision for us in"},{"t":3258,"text":"many ways. Um, of course, we will be monitoring the"},{"t":3262,"text":"rollout and, uh, I guess you can say adoption or"},{"t":3265,"text":"opt in on these regulations as they're used. So if"},{"t":3268,"text":"we are seeing that there is localized problems with not"},{"t":3272,"text":"providing parking, we can always revisit that, uh, before the"},{"t":3275,"text":"five year or at least in the five year term"},{"t":3278,"text":"where we're monitoring these regulations and how the community is"},{"t":3280,"text":"using them. Thank you. But like might be going on"},{"t":3287,"text":"in that five years. Okay. Um, in consultation, which you've"},{"t":3290,"text":"spoken about, you just have, uh, with your feedback and"},{"t":3293,"text":"development industry. And the report stays that the engagement reflected"},{"t":3296,"text":"the IAP2 consult for industry partners. Industry focus groups, including"},{"t":3301,"text":"affordable housing providers. We also had correspondence from a cook"},{"t":3305,"text":"street resident, uh, who described a petition with 150 resident"},{"t":3309,"text":"signatories. Residents who found out about a provider having input"},{"t":3313,"text":"because the provider's tenants were be given the opportunity of"},{"t":3315,"text":"input. Whereas other residents were not being given any opportunity."},{"t":3319,"text":"So while the residents suggest a few model changes, we're"},{"t":3322,"text":"made to the petition. It was quite pleased with staff"},{"t":3324,"text":"referring to them. My real issue is how many other"},{"t":3327,"text":"residential areas the city were excluded from consultation. Okay. What"},{"t":3333,"text":"have you speak to the extent of the public consultation."},{"t":3340,"text":"Yes, strangrove through the, maybe I'll start this second part"},{"t":3344,"text":"of the consultation. I think we've considered the first part"},{"t":3347,"text":"of the consultation to be through the other various policy"},{"t":3350,"text":"documents that we have the COVID - Victoria, the newest"},{"t":3352,"text":"OCP. This second phase of the consultation wasn't targeted phase."},{"t":3357,"text":"And so we did target specific groups. But more specifically,"},{"t":3361,"text":"uh, there was information sent out in the Connect newsletter,"},{"t":3364,"text":"which goes to every household in Victoria. And we did"},{"t":3367,"text":"not have any comments received from that. Thank you. I"},{"t":3372,"text":"don't doubt that at all. But yet we had targeted"},{"t":3375,"text":"that certain type of, uh, residential, uh, Property owners were"},{"t":3379,"text":"given special consideration invited to in - person meetings. Yet"},{"t":3382,"text":"the general population was not. And I think this is"},{"t":3385,"text":"very worrisome. Um, go Victoria was how many years ago."},{"t":3390,"text":"Mr. Grego. When did we pass go, Victoria? Uh, through"},{"t":3395,"text":"the mayor of 2018. Around there. We may have had"},{"t":3400,"text":"some population change since then. On September 18th, there was"},{"t":3406,"text":"a consultant. This is just one of the quotes. In"},{"t":3408,"text":"consultant was to engage to produce report on the feasibility"},{"t":3412,"text":"of a new parquet outside downtown. I believe the intent"},{"t":3415,"text":"was for the North Edge. Has that report been done"},{"t":3418,"text":"or consultant retained. Mr. William. Through the mat. No, that's,"},{"t":3424,"text":"um, that's been going to be on a future, uh,"},{"t":3427,"text":"budget year as a night. I'm on a future budget"},{"t":3429,"text":"here. Pardon, sorry. It'll be in a future year as"},{"t":3432,"text":"a budget title. Okay. So that'll be in your next,"},{"t":3434,"text":"with before your next five year. Okay. Um, now this"},{"t":3437,"text":"question relates to a bit what I've already said, which"},{"t":3439,"text":"is the consultation. So I don't know how this is"},{"t":3444,"text":"going to apply and to whom, especially with the small"},{"t":3447,"text":"ones. I'm a bit confused. Uh, we had one and"},{"t":3450,"text":"it was, it changed. Uh, and it changed I think"},{"t":3454,"text":"because we had it earlier on. It came to Council"},{"t":3457,"text":"and it was a townhouse complex of, I think nine"},{"t":3459,"text":"units that could be wrong. But with some parking on"},{"t":3463,"text":"it. And of course this is before missing middle housing"},{"t":3466,"text":"was approved and everything else. It was a very transitional"},{"t":3468,"text":"one. So I get that. And I think it ended"},{"t":3470,"text":"up with either 12 or 15 units and zero parking."},{"t":3473,"text":"So and yet we weren't notified of it. I. e."},{"t":3476,"text":"Council and I don't think the neighbourhood was either because"},{"t":3479,"text":"of the missing middle housing policy. So how will this"},{"t":3483,"text":"apply to missing middle housing policy beyond the six units?"},{"t":3487,"text":"I'm really quite confused. And so I think we'll be"},{"t":3490,"text":"a lot of, uh, neighbours when the changes, real big"},{"t":3494,"text":"changes that they don't get any notification. Mr. Angro, was"},{"t":3498,"text":"this something you can answer. Um, through the mayor, uh,"},{"t":3506,"text":"yeah, I guess if I'm trying to get at the"},{"t":3509,"text":"question here, uh, but, uh, so through the regulations, if"},{"t":3513,"text":"a developer can get their parking down to zero, there"},{"t":3516,"text":"would be no notification, uh, unless there was like a"},{"t":3519,"text":"development permit associated with it with other variances that would"},{"t":3523,"text":"get mailed out. Um, but if someone met all the"},{"t":3525,"text":"regulations, then there would be no notification. Thank you. If"},{"t":3529,"text":"the tan unit counthouse and they don't want to put"},{"t":3531,"text":"in parking or just the one compulsory one. So we"},{"t":3534,"text":"say through missing middle. Would that be approved without any"},{"t":3536,"text":"kind of consultation or without any public hearing or anything."},{"t":3540,"text":"Just ran a girl? Uh, through their mayor, yes, if"},{"t":3542,"text":"they, uh, got their parking down through TDMs or cash"},{"t":3545,"text":"and lie, yes, it could be approved without consultation. Mr."},{"t":3549,"text":"Handy. Just through you, Matt, and that's not a change"},{"t":3554,"text":"from the current status. If we received a development permit"},{"t":3557,"text":"application with variances for parking, certain levels of variances can"},{"t":3563,"text":"be delegated to stuff and they don't get public input."},{"t":3568,"text":"Thank you for that. Councillor. Okay. I think that"},{"t":3578,"text":"may be it for now. Thank you. Very good. Councillor"},{"t":3581,"text":"Loughton with questions. Thanks to you, Mayor. I just have"},{"t":3584,"text":"one question in it. It pertains to attachment A and"},{"t":3589,"text":"table three about the cash and lie for motor vehicle"},{"t":3594,"text":"parking use and the prices of it. So it's the"},{"t":3598,"text":"residential on a law comprising of 12 or fewer dwelling"},{"t":3602,"text":"units is 17 five, but all other uses are 35,"},{"t":3606,"text":"000. So I was just thinking about a scenario where,"},{"t":3610,"text":"you know, maybe there's a project that has 15 units"},{"t":3613,"text":"or 30 units and it wants to do something car"},{"t":3616,"text":"free versus something with 130 units that might want to"},{"t":3621,"text":"do that. And the price of that and how that"},{"t":3625,"text":"could become cost prohibitive for those smaller projects. Was that"},{"t":3631,"text":"taken into consideration with this number? Or how, how would"},{"t":3636,"text":"something like that be dealt with if it makes it"},{"t":3638,"text":"so that, um, those smaller projects have a really hard"},{"t":3641,"text":"time. Meeting that number. You're strangro. Yes. So through the"},{"t":3647,"text":"mayor, the idea would be for those projects to first"},{"t":3650,"text":"use our TDM measures and get it as low as"},{"t":3653,"text":"they could. And then if they could use the cash"},{"t":3657,"text":"in lieu without breaking the bank, uh, it's great. If"},{"t":3661,"text":"not, the variance process does still exist. So they could"},{"t":3664,"text":"come forward to counsel with a variance. Oh, okay. So"},{"t":3667,"text":"that would, so they would have to come to us."},{"t":3671,"text":"Like at, or how does that work? Uh, so that,"},{"t":3674,"text":"that would be a variance that's delegated to staff and"},{"t":3676,"text":"a variance delegated to staff. Okay. And then what would"},{"t":3680,"text":"the criteria be for that fire ants to be approved."},{"t":3687,"text":"Or Mr. Handy. Matt? I think it would just be"},{"t":3692,"text":"a case that's made by the applicant. And it could"},{"t":3694,"text":"be that they look to provide additional TDM measures. Or"},{"t":3699,"text":"they could put in an argument forward, um, that, you"},{"t":3702,"text":"know, the exceptional circumstances relating to the site which prohibits"},{"t":3707,"text":"them from providing parking. And they could have a conversation"},{"t":3712,"text":"with a SRAM financial feasibility. So there's a whole like"},{"t":3716,"text":"raft of different reasons why people can kind of, an"},{"t":3719,"text":"argument justifications that people can put forward for variants. Okay."},{"t":3723,"text":"Thank you for that. That's it for me, mate. Well,"},{"t":3726,"text":"there are questions. I'm ready to move it. Are there"},{"t":3734,"text":"any other questions? Yes. Councillor Hammond, go ahead, Councillor Hammond."},{"t":3738,"text":"Just two that haven't been answered. Um, I almost exclusively"},{"t":3743,"text":"use my e - bike for cycling. Are these considered"},{"t":3746,"text":"oversized. Mr. Gillingham. Through the mate, an oversized bike would"},{"t":3753,"text":"be more of a kind of bucket or cargo bike"},{"t":3756,"text":"as part of the update to the standard requirements for"},{"t":3761,"text":"bike parking. We're requiring that up to 50 percent minimum,"},{"t":3768,"text":"which grievously was part of our, it would be a"},{"t":3770,"text":"negotiated TDM measure. So that's one of those things that's"},{"t":3774,"text":"now been baked into the baseline, uh, bicycle parking requirements."},{"t":3778,"text":"Okay. Thanks. And so is that the 20 percent that"},{"t":3780,"text":"is being proposed. Killing. Uh, no, I think. So that"},{"t":3789,"text":"means the, um, the bike stalls are twice as wide."},{"t":3792,"text":"So instead of a 0. 45 store, it's a 0."},{"t":3795,"text":"9 metre stall. And the length is longer as well"},{"t":3797,"text":"rather than 1. 8 metres. It's 2. 4, I think,"},{"t":3801,"text":"um, so it just allows those like space for those"},{"t":3803,"text":"kind of long tail cargo bikes and bucket bikes and"},{"t":3806,"text":"things like that. Okay. And just for me to be"},{"t":3810,"text":"clear, then that's, that's what would be necessary to have"},{"t":3814,"text":"20 percent space for the space for those. Yeah. Through"},{"t":3820,"text":"them, that's correct. Yeah. Okay. Now that when you're not"},{"t":3823,"text":"including the e - bikes, like, cause I thought maybe"},{"t":3826,"text":"mine sometimes it's difficult to get into the old stuff,"},{"t":3830,"text":"right? Just to lock it. Um, then when, when you"},{"t":3836,"text":"noted the other lower mainland, which had Vancouver, well, outside"},{"t":3842,"text":"of that, um, what is it that we know different"},{"t":3850,"text":"that these other municipalities don't. I'm not saying we always"},{"t":3853,"text":"have to follow something that everyone else is doing, but"},{"t":3854,"text":"it seems like quite a bit more. Mr. Billingham. Through"},{"t":3859,"text":"the mayor. Um, essentially we are seeing much higher rates"},{"t":3862,"text":"of, or we've seen higher rates of, um, cargo bike"},{"t":3866,"text":"oversized bikes being used. Um, we have the resource of"},{"t":3869,"text":"the bike ballet downstairs, which indicates like we're getting kind"},{"t":3873,"text":"of up to 40, 50 percent oversized cargo bikes being"},{"t":3878,"text":"recorded in there. And there is a certain element there"},{"t":3881,"text":"of, um, you know, the kind of like, uh, the"},{"t":3883,"text":"chosen population, like if you have an oversized bike, it's"},{"t":3886,"text":"more difficult to park. You want to look after it"},{"t":3887,"text":"more and be more secure. So you're more likely to."},{"t":3889,"text":"Torrey, if you have a bike, I just need this."},{"t":3891,"text":"Oversized. Okay. Um, so it's a little bit of a,"},{"t":3896,"text":"we probably would see those higher rates of usage in"},{"t":3897,"text":"the bike valet. But travelling around, people, uh, high numbers"},{"t":3903,"text":"of oversized bikes around, around the city. Um, as part"},{"t":3907,"text":"of the consultation, we spoke to Capitol Bike who are"},{"t":3909,"text":"actually pushing for a higher figure and similar to what"},{"t":3912,"text":"some of the conversation today has been. They made the"},{"t":3914,"text":"point that we're, you know, these buildings are going to"},{"t":3916,"text":"be standing for, you know, 100 years or so. So"},{"t":3918,"text":"we need to, um, build for that future use and"},{"t":3922,"text":"anticipate the kind of growth that we've seen over the"},{"t":3924,"text":"past few years. Okay. Thanks. And perhaps my last question"},{"t":3928,"text":"then is, did you, if we went to 20 percent,"},{"t":3933,"text":"did you get much pushback from any developers or anyone"},{"t":3937,"text":"in the building industry. Mr. William? Through the, not a"},{"t":3942,"text":"great deal. We have kind of, uh, balanced that with"},{"t":3944,"text":"also, um, introducing stack parking, stack bicycle parking. So for"},{"t":3948,"text":"regular bikes being able to double stack them, which again,"},{"t":3951,"text":"used to require variance. And now that's permitted as standard"},{"t":3956,"text":"for up to, I think is up to 30 percent"},{"t":3959,"text":"of the required bike parking So the bit of a"},{"t":3963,"text":"balance there of being able to provide the regular bike"},{"t":3966,"text":"parking in a slightly reduced footprint and then having that"},{"t":3970,"text":"extra additional space for the oversized bike parking. Great. Thanks"},{"t":3973,"text":"very much. Thanks Mayor. Thank you very much. Any other"},{"t":3975,"text":"questions. Once again, you know the questions. I believe Councillor"},{"t":3978,"text":"Kitter, you'd like to move the recommendation? Yeah. For good"},{"t":3982,"text":"is her a seconder. Councillor Thompson's second day. Go ahead,"},{"t":3986,"text":"Councillor Kurt, on him. Um, thanks Mayor. Before getting into"},{"t":3990,"text":"General Motivation, I do have one amendment. I'm going to"},{"t":3993,"text":"make, um, I'll also signal now that I'll have, um,"},{"t":3998,"text":"motion arising. And I'll show the amendment in just a"},{"t":4001,"text":"second. But, um, at a high level that I think"},{"t":4008,"text":"it's really good. I think that the only really remaining"},{"t":4012,"text":"problem is around cash and lieu and TDM. And to"},{"t":4016,"text":"just sort of clarify my earlier comments about querying this"},{"t":4020,"text":"with staff, the problem I'm trying to solve is imagine"},{"t":4023,"text":"the falling scenario. You have two different developers. Developer A"},{"t":4027,"text":"is not really committed to sustainable transportation, car light, car"},{"t":4032,"text":"free living. They just want to save some money or"},{"t":4035,"text":"not have to deal with parking. And they're not really"},{"t":4037,"text":"thinking about the transportation needs of their resonance. And so"},{"t":4039,"text":"they're probably going to try to buy their way out"},{"t":4041,"text":"of it through cash and lie. So there's the, let's"},{"t":4043,"text":"call them like less committed developer over there. And then"},{"t":4046,"text":"developer B, which is a small but growing market is"},{"t":4050,"text":"values driven. It's design intensive. They really care about their"},{"t":4053,"text":"resonance. Shangri - Law Bike parking. There's the moto. There's"},{"t":4056,"text":"the bus passes. I mean, there's all this like design"},{"t":4059,"text":"intensive work to try to make sure that people are"},{"t":4061,"text":"getting around in a sustainable way. The challenge that I'm"},{"t":4065,"text":"having with all this is that the local government act"},{"t":4069,"text":"is like getting in the way of having really good"},{"t":4070,"text":"policy as far as I can see. Cause as I"},{"t":4072,"text":"understand it, what staff told me is that if cash"},{"t":4075,"text":"and lie is in the mix, it has to always"},{"t":4077,"text":"be in the mix. It's not legal for some reason."},{"t":4080,"text":"I don't get why the LGA says this, but it's"},{"t":4082,"text":"essentially impossible for us to say, thou shalt maximize TDM"},{"t":4086,"text":"first. And then if you can't get all the way"},{"t":4088,"text":"there or if you've exhausted your options, then you can"},{"t":4090,"text":"go to the cash and lie. As I understand it,"},{"t":4093,"text":"it's basically not legal for us to say that. There"},{"t":4096,"text":"might be some creative policy solution to that down the"},{"t":4098,"text":"line that we can't come up with on the fly"},{"t":4099,"text":"here. But right now that's sort of a barrier. So"},{"t":4102,"text":"if we go back to my hypothetical example of the"},{"t":4104,"text":"A and the B. For the A developer who's not"},{"t":4107,"text":"as committed, we want to, we don't want to make"},{"t":4110,"text":"it super easy for them to buy their way out"},{"t":4112,"text":"of doing the right thing, which is transportation demand management."},{"t":4114,"text":"I assume all of us want it, all of us"},{"t":4116,"text":"want to have transportation demand management for lower nopark buildings."},{"t":4120,"text":"My concern though is that developer B is being somewhat"},{"t":4125,"text":"unfairly taxed. For having done all the TDM work. They've"},{"t":4130,"text":"exhausted them. Everything they can. And now we're charging them"},{"t":4133,"text":"35, 000 dollars. To not have something that they already"},{"t":4137,"text":"don't want. They don't want to have parking. But we're"},{"t":4139,"text":"charging them 35K. And that, I think, sends the wrong"},{"t":4142,"text":"message. And it's essentially saying, Hey, look, value is driven"},{"t":4146,"text":"developer. You're aligning with all of our sustainable goals, our"},{"t":4150,"text":"climate goals, fewer cars on the road, less emissions, sustainable"},{"t":4153,"text":"transportation. But we're going to tax you 35, 000 dollars"},{"t":4156,"text":"per stall. That goes into this TDM reserve. That is"},{"t":4160,"text":"a bit unfair. I don't, I don't think it's possible"},{"t":4163,"text":"to fully solve that right now. I think it requires"},{"t":4165,"text":"more work. But what I would like to do is"},{"t":4167,"text":"make this policy a little bit less problematic by reducing"},{"t":4170,"text":"the cost. Of the cash and loop, not eliminating it,"},{"t":4174,"text":"but bring it down a bit to try to find"},{"t":4177,"text":"a happy balance so that we're still funneling people into"},{"t":4180,"text":"TDM, which is going to be cheaper than buying their"},{"t":4182,"text":"way out with these stalls, even if we reduce the"},{"t":4184,"text":"cost. But not overly penalizing the values driven developer that's"},{"t":4188,"text":"already doing the right thing. And it's like, well, what"},{"t":4190,"text":"else am I supposed to do? And yes, the variance"},{"t":4192,"text":"process, but a variance process is not a guarantee either."},{"t":4195,"text":"Staff could say no. So I've sent my, my proposal"},{"t":4198,"text":"to, to staff, which would essentially to bring down the"},{"t":4204,"text":"cash and lie. Please wait until it's on the floor"},{"t":4207,"text":"and you have a second for you to motivate. I"},{"t":4209,"text":"will also remind you that this is council. So you"},{"t":4212,"text":"may only speak once to this motion, including its amendment."},{"t":4214,"text":"And you are now down to less than four minutes."},{"t":4216,"text":"Okay. So this is the totality of your amendment is"},{"t":4222,"text":"all of the bolded and struck through language. Okay. Just"},{"t":4225,"text":"like everyone a chance to read it. And then I"},{"t":4227,"text":"will look for a seconder."},{"t":4239,"text":"Before I look for a second, I'm going to ask"},{"t":4242,"text":"staff, and I'm not sure to whom is would be"},{"t":4244,"text":"directed. Does such an amendment have an impact on the"},{"t":4249,"text":"next steps in considering these bylaws. Does it delay the"},{"t":4254,"text":"process that you have anticipated by bringing this forward today?"},{"t":4260,"text":"My understanding is no. So we would, Council will give"},{"t":4263,"text":"first readings today, uh, and then we would amend the"},{"t":4265,"text":"bylaws and then Council could give second reading set a"},{"t":4268,"text":"later date while still aiming to get this, uh, approved,"},{"t":4272,"text":"uh, before a public hearing, sorry, uh, by the end"},{"t":4276,"text":"of the month. Very good. Thank you. Is there a"},{"t":4278,"text":"secondary for this amendment. Councillor Thompson, you're going to second"},{"t":4285,"text":"the amendment. Yes, you may, absolutely. Can you turn on"},{"t":4291,"text":"your mic, please? Yeah. By amending is the term used"},{"t":4296,"text":"in both of those. And I'm wondering if that is"},{"t":4298,"text":"actually by reducing. Cause I'm not sure what amending means."},{"t":4302,"text":"Well, it would simply imply that it's changing from what"},{"t":4305,"text":"it says now, right? From what we understood earlier, it"},{"t":4307,"text":"was a hundred percent and this is suggesting it goes"},{"t":4310,"text":"to 50. So that's what I, how I understand the"},{"t":4313,"text":"language. Mr. Rengrow, is that how you understand the language?"},{"t":4317,"text":"Uh, through the mayor, I think I see the Councillor's"},{"t":4319,"text":"point. I think maybe at the end, it should say"},{"t":4322,"text":"by reducing by 50 percent. In each of number two"},{"t":4326,"text":"and number four. Yes. Yeah. It doesn't clarify. I think"},{"t":4329,"text":"we, we all know it's meant to be reducing, but"},{"t":4332,"text":"I think by reducing by field, Thompson. And that can"},{"t":4337,"text":"also be added into number four as well. That does"},{"t":4339,"text":"seem more clear. With that, Councillor Thompson, do you wish"},{"t":4343,"text":"to second this amendment? Yes. Okay. Councillor Cardona on your"},{"t":4346,"text":"amendment. Remembering your time constraint. Thank you. So the idea"},{"t":4349,"text":"here is to bring it down by 50 percent. So"},{"t":4352,"text":"the cost, but it's not as onerous. So the 35,"},{"t":4355,"text":"000 would go down to, uh, 17, five, I guess."},{"t":4360,"text":"What I originally wanted to do today was make it"},{"t":4364,"text":"mandatory to do TDM in cases in which you have"},{"t":4367,"text":"low or no parking. You should have to do TDM."},{"t":4370,"text":"And then if you can't get all the way there,"},{"t":4371,"text":"you do the cash and loot. What I've come to"},{"t":4373,"text":"learn is that the LGA makes that complicated. That said,"},{"t":4376,"text":"I still think that the rationale of, of bringing down"},{"t":4378,"text":"the cash and lieu now so that we're not driving"},{"t":4381,"text":"up the cost of housing. You know, my understanding is"},{"t":4384,"text":"that developers aren't just going to eat these costs. They're"},{"t":4387,"text":"going to pass some straight along to the consumer. So"},{"t":4389,"text":"a unit that was 650 is now 670 or 680,"},{"t":4394,"text":"000 dollars because we're essentially taxing these sorts of developments."},{"t":4399,"text":"Um, but that said, I don't, until we solve this"},{"t":4403,"text":"kind of thorny policy issue of how we funnel people"},{"t":4406,"text":"into TDM. We also don't want to make this number"},{"t":4408,"text":"too low. So that my, my example hypothetical developer A"},{"t":4413,"text":"that's not as committed just as well, I'm just going"},{"t":4415,"text":"to buy my way out of it. And then you've"},{"t":4416,"text":"left resonance in the lurch and they don't have access"},{"t":4419,"text":"to sustainable transportation. I don't think anybody wants that. So"},{"t":4422,"text":"I'm trying to thread a really fine needle here. The"},{"t":4425,"text":"motion rising that I'll have in a little while is"},{"t":4427,"text":"about doing more work about how we funnel more people"},{"t":4429,"text":"into TDM in the first instance. We're not going to"},{"t":4431,"text":"solve that today. But I don't want to be driving"},{"t":4434,"text":"up the cost of housing. So I mean, you know,"},{"t":4437,"text":"if you take a 20 unit building that has no"},{"t":4439,"text":"parking and they've done all the TDM, they possibly can."},{"t":4444,"text":"They've got the moto. They've got the bike parking, et"},{"t":4446,"text":"cetera, et cetera, et cetera. They can't, through our policies,"},{"t":4448,"text":"get all the way down. They are forced to buy"},{"t":4451,"text":"their way out of doing something they don't already want"},{"t":4454,"text":"to do. So multiply, you know, multiply that by 35,"},{"t":4458,"text":"000. 10 units by 35. It's 350, 000 dollars. That"},{"t":4462,"text":"gets passed straight onto the consumer. And I think in"},{"t":4464,"text":"this affordability crisis, I don't know what the problem is"},{"t":4466,"text":"we're solving there. That person, that hypothetical developer is already"},{"t":4470,"text":"doing everything they can't. We're just making housing more expensive"},{"t":4472,"text":"for people that don't want parking. And that small minority"},{"t":4476,"text":"of people that don't want it. So I, I think"},{"t":4478,"text":"it's a perverse incentive. So I'm trying to make this,"},{"t":4482,"text":"this provision less problematic. Again, Program that you guys had"},{"t":4487,"text":"come up with, I agree with this, just one piece"},{"t":4489,"text":"of it. But I think it is problematic. So hopefully"},{"t":4492,"text":"this passes under two minutes now. Okay. Hopefully this passes"},{"t":4495,"text":"and then the motion arising will give direction and do"},{"t":4498,"text":"some additional work so that we can balance the requirement"},{"t":4501,"text":"to do TDM with the cash and lie. But at"},{"t":4504,"text":"least piece B would get done today in PCA would"},{"t":4507,"text":"have to get done six or eight months from now."},{"t":4509,"text":"Thanks. Councillor Thompson is a secondary of the amendment. Anything"},{"t":4512,"text":"on the amendment. Thanks Mary. I'll just ask staff to,"},{"t":4515,"text":"if they could verify my colleague's, one of his points"},{"t":4519,"text":"that he was making along the way here, uh, so"},{"t":4521,"text":"we can't actually just require folks to do the TDM,"},{"t":4527,"text":"uh, to the maximum amount and then add on the"},{"t":4530,"text":"cash and lie. Is that correct? Seeing nodding from multiple"},{"t":4537,"text":"staffs. Through the mayor of that, that's correct. At least"},{"t":4540,"text":"not in a straightforward way that we have had the"},{"t":4542,"text":"time to look into. Is there, is there any chance"},{"t":4545,"text":"that between the first reading and second reading at a"},{"t":4549,"text":"later date, you're going to be able to dig further"},{"t":4551,"text":"into that. Through the mayor, I would say no. And"},{"t":4556,"text":"I think that's might be what the motion arising may"},{"t":4558,"text":"be about. That's right. Anything else? Okay. On the amendment,"},{"t":4564,"text":"Councillor Loughton. Yes. Through you, Mayor, how were the numbers"},{"t":4569,"text":"chosen. Like why is it 35, 0175. Mr. Pesey. Through"},{"t":4576,"text":"the mayor, it's a good question. There's not, that's not"},{"t":4579,"text":"hard mathematics in that. We did do a scan of"},{"t":4581,"text":"other sort of, um, urban type communities, uh, some from"},{"t":4585,"text":"the lower mainland non city of Vancouver, but municipalities in"},{"t":4589,"text":"the lower mainland. That was called a starting point. And"},{"t":4592,"text":"there was a bit of a conversation around balancing both"},{"t":4595,"text":"the benefit to the applicant in not having to build"},{"t":4597,"text":"the parking relative to what we know cost to be."},{"t":4599,"text":"And again, structure different than surface. Uh, as well as"},{"t":4602,"text":"making sure we thought we were sort of hitting a"},{"t":4605,"text":"balance in terms of this being, um, a tool that"},{"t":4608,"text":"would be taken up in instances where a site is"},{"t":4611,"text":"truly constrained, but not at a rate that it's so"},{"t":4614,"text":"attractive to do so, uh, that as was talked about"},{"t":4617,"text":"earlier that applicants would just sort of use this as"},{"t":4620,"text":"a way to, um, essentially buy their way out of"},{"t":4622,"text":"providing the parking. Okay. So you are, you've tried to"},{"t":4625,"text":"find the balance. And just one more question, Mayor. So"},{"t":4628,"text":"in the example that my colleague to the left brought"},{"t":4633,"text":"up in the 20 unit, um, car free development, they"},{"t":4637,"text":"get their TDM down. And then they're still left with"},{"t":4640,"text":"having to buy out these spaces. Would that qualify for"},{"t":4644,"text":"a variance. How would that work. Through the mayor, yes,"},{"t":4652,"text":"they could apply for a variance in that case. And"},{"t":4654,"text":"as Mr. Handy outlined previously, it would be up to"},{"t":4656,"text":"them to justify why they would get that variant. Why,"},{"t":4659,"text":"they deserve that variance. Okay. I guess I'm a little"},{"t":4662,"text":"bit stuck on that because it that would make it,"},{"t":4666,"text":"um, it creates uncertainty for that developer. So is there"},{"t":4669,"text":"any kind of criteria that they would be able to"},{"t":4672,"text":"count on in order while applying for that variance. Do"},{"t":4678,"text":"your standardized thresholds? Or is that something that's a negotiation."},{"t":4683,"text":"Mr. Johnston? Uh, thank you, Sue the mayor. Uh, so"},{"t":4687,"text":"there's associated updates to the land use procedures bylaw to"},{"t":4692,"text":"delegate parking variances to staff. And there are criteria in"},{"t":4696,"text":"the land use procedures bylaw for meeting the threshold for"},{"t":4700,"text":"delegation. So projects would need to demonstrate that they're meeting"},{"t":4705,"text":"the design guidelines, the applicable design guidelines for that location,"},{"t":4709,"text":"as well as, um, proving out that they've made all"},{"t":4712,"text":"reasonable attempts to provide, uh, mobility options on, on site."},{"t":4718,"text":"So it would be a, uh, I guess evaluated on"},{"t":4721,"text":"a case - by - case basis as to whether"},{"t":4723,"text":"they have, you know, met that threshold. And I believe"},{"t":4727,"text":"you're referencing what's here before us at number five. Is"},{"t":4730,"text":"that right? The readings to the land use procedure pilot."},{"t":4734,"text":"Yes, that's the correct. Okay. Okay. That's it for me."},{"t":4738,"text":"Thanks. Questions Councillor Hammond. I thought I saw your hand"},{"t":4742,"text":"up. I don't know why I'm asking this so late"},{"t":4746,"text":"in our mandate, but I can ask questions and then"},{"t":4749,"text":"comment on the amendment later. Yeah. So, um, I guess"},{"t":4756,"text":"I'm just not clear. Let's, let's say the 17, 500,"},{"t":4761,"text":"I'm building something I'm doing the TDMs and let's say"},{"t":4765,"text":"that's valued it up to 10, 000 dollars Does that"},{"t":4768,"text":"mean I still pay the 17, 500 or do I"},{"t":4770,"text":"get to pay the 7, 500 dollars. Mr. Angrove? Or"},{"t":4774,"text":"does it not work anything like that. Through the mayor?"},{"t":4779,"text":"So the TDMs are a set rate. So if you"},{"t":4780,"text":"do those TDMs, uh, you get that set reduction. If"},{"t":4785,"text":"you wanted to then further reduce your other stalls that"},{"t":4788,"text":"maybe still were outstanding and you exhausted all your TDM"},{"t":4791,"text":"options, that's, you could consider your cash in lieu. Or"},{"t":4794,"text":"you could also just cash and low the whole thing"},{"t":4797,"text":"potentially. Okay. So that's where that's where the balance comes"},{"t":4802,"text":"in around the cost of the cash and loo is"},{"t":4804,"text":"we don't want to put it too low such that"},{"t":4806,"text":"developers just ignore all the TDMs, uh, but we also"},{"t":4810,"text":"don't necessarily want to put it super high such that,"},{"t":4813,"text":"uh, these small developers are put out and can't make"},{"t":4817,"text":"it work ever. Okay. Then if we reduce this as"},{"t":4824,"text":"per this amendment, then that means it will be easier"},{"t":4831,"text":"for people to not have to do the proper TDMs."},{"t":4835,"text":"Strand group, what is the impact of this. In your"},{"t":4838,"text":"view? Through the mayor, it starts to get easier. Yes."},{"t":4842,"text":"So yeah, as we, as we reduce the cash and"},{"t":4845,"text":"lieu amount, it gets more attractive to not do the"},{"t":4847,"text":"TDMs and do the cash and lie instead. Uh, so"},{"t":4850,"text":"yeah, if we hit the cash and low amount too"},{"t":4853,"text":"low, people will start ignoring the TDMs because the TDM's"},{"t":4856,"text":"at that point might be more costly. Okay. Thank you"},{"t":4859,"text":"very much. That answers my question. Any other questions on"},{"t":4862,"text":"the amendment is the bold language in front of you."},{"t":4867,"text":"Not seeing any other questions. Councillor Dell is joining us"},{"t":4870,"text":"by the way online as is Councillor Kim. And so"},{"t":4873,"text":"we do have all of us here available for voting."},{"t":4877,"text":"In favor of the amendment, please indicate. I'm just going"},{"t":4880,"text":"to check online first. I've got yes from Councillor Dahl"},{"t":4883,"text":"and Councillor Kim from Councillor Corridora from Councillor Loughton from"},{"t":4887,"text":"Councillor Thompson in opposition. That would be Councillor. Good Lord."},{"t":4893,"text":"It's been too long a day. Thank you Councillor Coleman"},{"t":4895,"text":"Councillor Hammond Councillor Gardner and myself. That being said, it"},{"t":4899,"text":"is still five to four in favor. So the amendment"},{"t":4900,"text":"stands. Councillor Cardona, you still have the floor on the"},{"t":4904,"text":"main motion and I will warn you that you are"},{"t":4906,"text":"under two minutes. I think maybe I'll save my time"},{"t":4908,"text":"for the motion rising. Very good. Uh, Councillor Thompson, you"},{"t":4912,"text":"were the secondary. Would you like to speak to the"},{"t":4913,"text":"main motion. Um, I really don't have much to add"},{"t":4919,"text":"apart from what staff have said in their report and"},{"t":4922,"text":"what we've, what we've discussed already. You know, this is,"},{"t":4926,"text":"this is part of updating, uh, our parking, the city"},{"t":4932,"text":"has always evolved, has always changed. And it will continue"},{"t":4934,"text":"to change. Um, and this is, I think where we're"},{"t":4938,"text":"at right now, uh, in terms of the, uh, of"},{"t":4941,"text":"the off street parking and in five or 10 years,"},{"t":4945,"text":"um, we may need to change it again. We probably"},{"t":4948,"text":"will. Thanks. Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else on the main"},{"t":4951,"text":"motion as amended. Councillor Pollman, would you like to speak?"},{"t":4959,"text":"Yes. Now that I remember who you are, yes, go"},{"t":4961,"text":"ahead. Thank you. The caution I have with this is"},{"t":4967,"text":"as we drop parking restrictions, we create an economic externality"},{"t":4972,"text":"which is parking on the street. And that's what we're"},{"t":4977,"text":"trying to also address. I know this isn't about street"},{"t":4980,"text":"parking, but that's where excess parking will go. And just"},{"t":4984,"text":"three weeks ago, I think transit was in front of"},{"t":4987,"text":"us saying, our roots have slowed down by 1. 7"},{"t":4992,"text":"minutes each because of some of the curb stuff. So"},{"t":4996,"text":"as we go through this, I have a real concern"},{"t":5002,"text":"that all we're doing is we're making this externality and"},{"t":5005,"text":"people will come in and say, well, yeah, I know"},{"t":5006,"text":"this building doesn't, the unit I have doesn't have parking,"},{"t":5009,"text":"but I have a vehicle. It's going to be out"},{"t":5012,"text":"there somewhere. So we're going to have to, I don't"},{"t":5014,"text":"know if that comes in the five year renewal, but"},{"t":5017,"text":"that's the fear I have. With this. This is first"},{"t":5021,"text":"readings and so on. So we have another chance to"},{"t":5024,"text":"come back to this. But that's the concern that I"},{"t":5027,"text":"have as we move forward with this. That doesn't mean"},{"t":5029,"text":"we have to do parking the way we used to"},{"t":5032,"text":"do it when we had parking minimums of building with"},{"t":5036,"text":"40 units was expected to have 60 parking stalls. Now"},{"t":5041,"text":"we've gone to parking maximums and just two weeks ago"},{"t":5044,"text":"we had an application on Cedar Hill that had 12"},{"t":5047,"text":"units in three buildings. And the parking maximum allowed them"},{"t":5051,"text":"to have three parking stalls and they wanted 12. So"},{"t":5055,"text":"there has to be some latitude for the applicant to"},{"t":5057,"text":"say this is the market I want to sell in"},{"t":5060,"text":"and I need parking. So. That's just over her. It's"},{"t":5066,"text":"discussion outside this. We're in a really sticky area. And"},{"t":5071,"text":"that's the concern I have with this. We shouldn't be"},{"t":5073,"text":"trying to make parking an externality when we know. There"},{"t":5077,"text":"are 58, 400 vehicles licensed by ICBC in the city"},{"t":5082,"text":"of Victoria. That's, that's a fairly high ratio. And that"},{"t":5087,"text":"hasn't changed a lot. It's grown with the population. So"},{"t":5090,"text":"we just need to think through that. I'll support this"},{"t":5093,"text":"going forward just because it's a partial. It's coming back"},{"t":5096,"text":"to us. Thank you. Thank you very much. Councillor Coleman."},{"t":5102,"text":"Anyone else. Take off the comments Councillor Logan. Wait, hang"},{"t":5104,"text":"on Councillor Long. Yes, absolutely. You may can because you"},{"t":5107,"text":"haven't spoken on the main motion. Spoke money then. Thanks"},{"t":5111,"text":"to you mayor. I also agree that we are in"},{"t":5114,"text":"a bit of a no - person's land here. I"},{"t":5116,"text":"mean, we, we, I think that the TDM should come"},{"t":5121,"text":"first, but we can't do that legislatively. So we're going"},{"t":5125,"text":"to have to be really careful how we're finding the"},{"t":5127,"text":"balance in the price tag on those, um, on those"},{"t":5133,"text":"spots. So because this is first reading, I think staff"},{"t":5137,"text":"can go back and think about this. It's going to"},{"t":5139,"text":"come back to us again. You know, we're not, we're"},{"t":5142,"text":"not adopting anything today. And I think that maybe one"},{"t":5146,"text":"of the opportunities to try to make this work a"},{"t":5148,"text":"little bit better is to have clear, um, guidelines around"},{"t":5153,"text":"the variance. Variants to not, to not have to pay"},{"t":5159,"text":"for the cash and loop piece so that it provides"},{"t":5162,"text":"those sort of lower, you know, developers that are doing"},{"t":5165,"text":"smaller developments with a little more certainty that they can"},{"t":5169,"text":"meet their TDM and then not have to. Pay out"},{"t":5173,"text":"to get, um, a car free development, I think that's"},{"t":5176,"text":"something that everybody can think about. But again, because we're"},{"t":5180,"text":"at first reading, um, I can support this. Thank you"},{"t":5184,"text":"very much. Councillor Gardner, do you wish the weigh in?"},{"t":5187,"text":"Thank you. Uh, first of all, I was very pleased"},{"t":5189,"text":"with several decisions made by staff as they can sell"},{"t":5193,"text":"them with a development industry. And then for example, the"},{"t":5196,"text":"idea of creating, uh, parking maximums was abandoned. So some"},{"t":5200,"text":"of those things are really quite appreciated. And they're required"},{"t":5204,"text":"parking for larger complexes is very reasonable. I appreciated that."},{"t":5208,"text":"But what concerns me in this report is beyond the"},{"t":5212,"text":"downtown, a lot of people won't know what this policy"},{"t":5216,"text":"means to them. Doesn't tell them whether or not they're"},{"t":5219,"text":"going to have, you know, permit parking on their streets"},{"t":5223,"text":"where they're not, they're going to have our parking, like"},{"t":5226,"text":"restricted hours or what. It's just not clear. So the"},{"t":5228,"text":"general population has not really been informed. And again, I'm"},{"t":5232,"text":"very worried about the consultation. Cause in consultation saying, you"},{"t":5237,"text":"know, go Victoria, I don't even remember it from eight"},{"t":5239,"text":"years ago. So general public has not been brought into"},{"t":5241,"text":"this. It really hasn't been. And the contact newsletter doesn't"},{"t":5245,"text":"do it either. And so I was very disappointed. I"},{"t":5248,"text":"know my staff did accommodate quest for me to come"},{"t":5251,"text":"to a couple of neighbourhoods for which I was liaison"},{"t":5254,"text":"and presented, but it was information going to the residents"},{"t":5257,"text":"more than real consultation going back. And I had even"},{"t":5261,"text":"said, I hope that you'll come back with this before"},{"t":5263,"text":"you come to Council. But I knew through process, they"},{"t":5266,"text":"could not. And I think that was unfortunate. But I"},{"t":5269,"text":"really can't support this small scale developments of three to"},{"t":5272,"text":"six townhouses, uh, not required to have sufficient off -"},{"t":5276,"text":"street parking for the townhouse or complex residences. Because that"},{"t":5280,"text":"is what the OCP has really, um, said we can"},{"t":5286,"text":"have almost anywhere in the city without consultation. Is this"},{"t":5290,"text":"six stories? And well, four stories and six stories. And"},{"t":5294,"text":"so residents aren't going to have a voice than that."},{"t":5297,"text":"And I've just seen some already with some of these"},{"t":5300,"text":"and it's going to cause havoc on these streets. We"},{"t":5303,"text":"don't have to wait five years for the problem. It's"},{"t":5305,"text":"there now when something pops up in the middle or"},{"t":5307,"text":"the end of a block already. It's there. And so"},{"t":5311,"text":"I'm just so disappointed that there has not been that"},{"t":5313,"text":"kind of real consultation blocked by block. Because we're talking"},{"t":5317,"text":"about people paying the impact, uh, and their needs not"},{"t":5321,"text":"being respected block by block. And so I was disappointed"},{"t":5325,"text":"in that. What else did I have in here? And"},{"t":5332,"text":"again, I know I mentioned before. Restance really weren't residents"},{"t":5337,"text":"who live here. And it doesn't matter if they're tenants"},{"t":5340,"text":"or homeowners. They weren't consulted. Unless they were tenants of"},{"t":5343,"text":"a particular subclass of, of residential housing, my mind just"},{"t":5349,"text":"can't figure out why that was done. Uh, why the"},{"t":5353,"text":"bulk of the residents and residential complexes were not considered,"},{"t":5357,"text":"uh, to be an importance to be actually consulted where"},{"t":5362,"text":"some others were. I honestly don't understand how that occurred."},{"t":5365,"text":"So, um, I understand this will be going forward, but"},{"t":5369,"text":"just because of the, those issues that I mentioned, which"},{"t":5372,"text":"is a consultation, then I still don't know how the"},{"t":5374,"text":"public feels about this until they read the papers and"},{"t":5378,"text":"news articles online in the next few days. They, they"},{"t":5381,"text":"won't know. And, uh, so, and again, since the OCP"},{"t":5387,"text":"now has upzone everything pretty well, the four to six"},{"t":5390,"text":"stories. I just can't support this going forward. So thank"},{"t":5394,"text":"you very much. Thank you. Uh, anyone else who has"},{"t":5397,"text":"yet to speak on the main motion. I believe. Yes."},{"t":5400,"text":"Councillor Hammond go right hand. Thanks Mayor. In September, I"},{"t":5407,"text":"supported a staff bringing back bylaw amendments. Doing focus engagement"},{"t":5411,"text":"and collecting more information. And, um, that was the right"},{"t":5414,"text":"process. As a matter of fact, I think I was"},{"t":5416,"text":"the one who panicked about the contact going out and"},{"t":5418,"text":"making sure it included this. But I also voted against"},{"t":5421,"text":"several of the substantive items that are now reflected in"},{"t":5424,"text":"these bylaws. I opposed expanding no minimum parking areas. I"},{"t":5428,"text":"posed moving towards the phase removal of parking minimums across"},{"t":5431,"text":"the city. I oppose creating broader pathways to very lower"},{"t":5436,"text":"no parking developments without stronger safeguards. I also had concerns"},{"t":5439,"text":"about shifting visitor accessible parking pressure onto the public curb."},{"t":5444,"text":"Staff have made some useful changes. And I appreciate that."},{"t":5447,"text":"Removing parking maximums was the right move, keeping visitor parking"},{"t":5451,"text":"requirements was also practical. I appreciate the engagement that led"},{"t":5455,"text":"to some of the improvements. Although I certainly appreciate what"},{"t":5459,"text":"my colleagues has said about, about this. Uh, but my"},{"t":5462,"text":"core concerns still remain. Um, parking demand doesn't disappear because"},{"t":5467,"text":"Council changes a bylaw. If we get this wrong, the"},{"t":5470,"text":"pressure moves onto nearby streets, residents, small businesses, visitors, caregivers,"},{"t":5475,"text":"tradespeople, and people with mobility needs. I'm not opposed to"},{"t":5478,"text":"change and I'm not saying every new home or business"},{"t":5481,"text":"has to be built around private cars. Our population is"},{"t":5485,"text":"growing. Space is limited and transportation choices matter. But I"},{"t":5489,"text":"don't think these bylaws have enough safeguards, enough neighbourhood led"},{"t":5494,"text":"accountability or a fast enough public review, despite my vote"},{"t":5498,"text":"in September, I think, waiting five years for review is"},{"t":5501,"text":"too long. However, Council gave direction and staff followed that"},{"t":5504,"text":"direction. But because I didn't support key parts of that"},{"t":5507,"text":"direction September, I can't support putting these changes into law"},{"t":5510,"text":"today, even on first reading. So hence I'll be voting"},{"t":5513,"text":"no. Thanks, Mayor. Thank you very much. Just checking with"},{"t":5516,"text":"my colleagues online to see if either of them wish"},{"t":5518,"text":"to speak. Nope. Got a big no. Uh, one question"},{"t":5522,"text":"for you that arises from some of the language used"},{"t":5526,"text":"in some of my colleagues comments. Do you have on"},{"t":5529,"text":"your work plan an evaluation of on Street parking policy?"},{"t":5534,"text":"And if so, when. Yes, that was one of the"},{"t":5542,"text":"recommendations from when we came to Committee the whole Last"},{"t":5545,"text":"September, um, so we've been, ongoing work, um, to do"},{"t":5549,"text":"with that. Currently it's a lot of data and information"},{"t":5552,"text":"gathering. So we've just completed the first round of data"},{"t":5557,"text":"collection in James Bay to start our inventory of CO"},{"t":5560,"text":"regulations across the city. So we have a real accurate"},{"t":5563,"text":"idea of how many potential, um, the potential capacity of"},{"t":5567,"text":"on street parking in all of our neighbourhoods. And we"},{"t":5570,"text":"have a priority list of other neighbourhoods to go to,"},{"t":5572,"text":"um, now that James Bay's been completed, um, at the"},{"t":5575,"text":"same time, the end of last month, um, postcards went"},{"t":5580,"text":"out, uh, targeted postcards went out to actually random, um,"},{"t":5585,"text":"addresses across the city to try and get a, to"},{"t":5589,"text":"provide access to, uh, an engagement survey about people's on"},{"t":5592,"text":"street parking experiences, um, and the results of that is"},{"t":5596,"text":"to try and get a kind of representational idea of"},{"t":5599,"text":"typical, um, experiences in different parts of the city. And"},{"t":5601,"text":"that'll help again inform a new approach to parking in"},{"t":5604,"text":"residential neighbourhoods. Um, the same consultants who understook that are"},{"t":5609,"text":"also over the summer going to undertake some targeted, um,"},{"t":5612,"text":"surveys in areas of particularly high parking demand that we're"},{"t":5616,"text":"aware of, um, again, to get, uh, feedback from people"},{"t":5620,"text":"visiting these areas, their reasons for travelling there, the most"},{"t":5624,"text":"travel, how far they've come by at their experiences of"},{"t":5626,"text":"parking and so on. Um, in those areas. Um, and"},{"t":5629,"text":"then the other side of it is also being, um,"},{"t":5631,"text":"kind of, uh, consulting with other municipalities across BC who've"},{"t":5636,"text":"also experienced in the same kind of parking pressures. It's"},{"t":5639,"text":"a bit of a universal issue. And so we're kind"},{"t":5641,"text":"of in the middle of it with a lot of"},{"t":5642,"text":"other places. So, you know, the information gathering, the intention"},{"t":5648,"text":"is to then use all this information to develop a"},{"t":5653,"text":"new kind of approach, as I say, um, taken into"},{"t":5656,"text":"account a lot of the issues that have been raised"},{"t":5657,"text":"today in terms of, um, residential parking, um, the, the"},{"t":5662,"text":"kind of potential for reducing off street supply, downloading that"},{"t":5666,"text":"parking onto the street. And so having to better management,"},{"t":5668,"text":"better regulate parking, also making sure we have space for,"},{"t":5672,"text":"um, commercial loading, for accessible parking, for tradesmoon and contractors"},{"t":5677,"text":"as well. And being sure that we can try and,"},{"t":5680,"text":"you know, accommodate all these different competing needs at the"},{"t":5684,"text":"curb. Um, in September, as I say, we, I think"},{"t":5688,"text":"we committed to coming back and presenting something in 2027,"},{"t":5693,"text":"which is still, still the intention. But until then, the"},{"t":5695,"text":"love work to be done before we have something that"},{"t":5698,"text":"is worth sharing. Thank you, Mr. Kenny's indicating he'd liked"},{"t":5702,"text":"a way in behind you. Thank you, Mayor. Um, and"},{"t":5705,"text":"just to add a little bit to Mr. Billingham's response,"},{"t":5708,"text":"which was very thorough about what it's to come, um,"},{"t":5711,"text":"just last year, we've kind of done some analysis on"},{"t":5713,"text":"emails received to the engineering department. We had about 900"},{"t":5716,"text":"emails just related to parking or loading or issues regarding"},{"t":5721,"text":"curb use in the city. Um, and we respond to,"},{"t":5724,"text":"you know, a couple hundred of those in terms of"},{"t":5726,"text":"making changes. So while we're looking to future policy and"},{"t":5730,"text":"how we address curse, we also respond, um, and prioritize,"},{"t":5735,"text":"you know, issues as they're brought forward from the public."},{"t":5737,"text":"So it really is while we try to set longer"},{"t":5739,"text":"term and broad base policies, we're also responding in a"},{"t":5742,"text":"very iterative way, um, every day. Great. Thank you for"},{"t":5745,"text":"that. Very well. Everyone has spoken to the main motion."},{"t":5749,"text":"Yes, they have. And so I'm going now called a"},{"t":5751,"text":"question. Nope. You cannot speak voice on the main motion"},{"t":5753,"text":"because you already have. So that is in our procedures"},{"t":5757,"text":"bylaw. Uh, so all those in favor of the amended"},{"t":5760,"text":"motion. We're going to look first online Councillor Dowell and"},{"t":5763,"text":"Councillor Kim are both in favor. Councillor Cardona. Councillor Loughton,"},{"t":5767,"text":"myself, Councillor Coleman Councillor Thompson in opposition. Councillor Hammond and"},{"t":5772,"text":"Councillor Gardner. Noting to, in opposition that is in various"},{"t":5777,"text":"places, given multiple readings as described on the screen. And"},{"t":5781,"text":"I believe Councillor Cardonia, you have a motion arising. Uh,"},{"t":5784,"text":"yeah. And I sent it over to staff. Very good."},{"t":5787,"text":"Just wait for that to come up. Shouldn't be a"},{"t":5789,"text":"surprise. What it is. I wouldn't think so. Just pull"},{"t":5796,"text":"it up there. That'd be right. Let's just take a"},{"t":5800,"text":"moment to read it and then I'll ask for a"},{"t":5801,"text":"second here. Is the seconder for that. Colter Loat in"},{"t":5809,"text":"his second knee that Councillor Cardona on your motion rising."},{"t":5812,"text":"You have two minutes. Thanks very much. So just to"},{"t":5813,"text":"make one thing crystal clear, I do not want a"},{"t":5817,"text":"situation in which the derelict developer is buying their way"},{"t":5821,"text":"out of doing the right thing. If that happens in"},{"t":5823,"text":"the real world, it's a policy failure. None of us"},{"t":5826,"text":"should want that. What we should want is to figure"},{"t":5828,"text":"out how in these lower nopark developments to require TDM."},{"t":5834,"text":"And then if we can do that, the question of"},{"t":5836,"text":"cash and lie becomes somewhat redundant. Or irrelevant, frankly. And"},{"t":5840,"text":"actually while I'm thinking of it, I mean, let me"},{"t":5843,"text":"just clarify here that the problem with the local government"},{"t":5845,"text":"act, as I understand it, the reason that we can't"},{"t":5848,"text":"require TDM is because cash and lieu is involved in"},{"t":5852,"text":"the mix. If we were in theory to remove cash"},{"t":5855,"text":"and load, just get rid of cash and lose an"},{"t":5857,"text":"option. Could we then require TDM. Mr. Rangrove. Uh, so"},{"t":5863,"text":"through the bay to clarify, we can require TDM. I"},{"t":5867,"text":"think the problem that's arising is when you try and"},{"t":5869,"text":"combine them both in saying that, uh, in order to"},{"t":5873,"text":"unlock cash and lie, you have to provide TDM first."},{"t":5877,"text":"So I think, uh, to clarify, they both need to"},{"t":5879,"text":"be separate. But what I'm saying is that if we"},{"t":5882,"text":"were to just get rid of the idea of cash"},{"t":5884,"text":"and lie, would that open up opportunities to make it"},{"t":5887,"text":"clear and more authoritative in our requirements for TDM. From"},{"t":5893,"text":"the reverse perspective, Mr. Angrove, could we just demand TDM"},{"t":5898,"text":"and give no other option. Through the mayor, yes. Um,"},{"t":5902,"text":"TDA, or Cashan Liu was introduced as an additional flexibility"},{"t":5905,"text":"option for developers, but it could certainly be removed fully."},{"t":5909,"text":"Okay. So I'm certainly not going to direct that we"},{"t":5910,"text":"do that, but as part of the research over the"},{"t":5912,"text":"next few months on this, I would like you guys"},{"t":5914,"text":"to, to consider that. I mean, maybe the cash and"},{"t":5918,"text":"lieu is just getting in the way. And it's like"},{"t":5919,"text":"a solution in search of a problem. Right. I mean,"},{"t":5922,"text":"if, if the ultimate objective here from a policy standpoint"},{"t":5925,"text":"is to require these buildings to have really great TDM,"},{"t":5928,"text":"maybe we should focus on that and solve that problem."},{"t":5931,"text":"And like the cash and loop can become a secondary"},{"t":5933,"text":"consideration. Because if the local government act does complicate things"},{"t":5936,"text":"so much, we don't want to end up in a"},{"t":5938,"text":"perverse situation in which we're allowing people to buy their"},{"t":5941,"text":"way out of doing the right thing. So I genuinely"},{"t":5944,"text":"don't know what the answer is here. We either have"},{"t":5946,"text":"to wrestle the local government act to the ground or"},{"t":5949,"text":"ditch cash and lie or come up with something creative."},{"t":5952,"text":"You guys are all really smart. And I think that"},{"t":5954,"text":"there is a policy solution here that gets us where"},{"t":5956,"text":"we want to be as a city and gets a"},{"t":5958,"text":"development community on site. Thank you Councillor Councillor Loat. And"},{"t":5962,"text":"you seconded this. Thanks to you, Mayor. This is a"},{"t":5966,"text":"really tough nut to crack. And I think you're all"},{"t":5970,"text":"fully well aware of that. And it just gives a"},{"t":5973,"text":"little bit more direction to think about this more to"},{"t":5977,"text":"see what we can do to try to solve this"},{"t":5980,"text":"problem. Um, I'm not in favor of removing the cash"},{"t":5986,"text":"in lieu. So I think it is important. And just,"},{"t":5989,"text":"I'll just tell a quick anecdotal story. I have a"},{"t":5992,"text":"friend who, um, was thinking about going car free, but"},{"t":5997,"text":"instead, Oh, I would if there was a moto right"},{"t":5999,"text":"outside my house, but it's not because it's on a"},{"t":6002,"text":"residential street. I live in a MERB and there's a"},{"t":6007,"text":"motor right outside my house. It's very easy for me."},{"t":6010,"text":"So the cash and Lou can help us, I think,"},{"t":6013,"text":"get more, um, car shares just in different areas of"},{"t":6017,"text":"the city. So I think that's really important. But at"},{"t":6019,"text":"the same time, it's finding the balance of making sure"},{"t":6022,"text":"that those TDMs are the priority and that people aren't"},{"t":6026,"text":"sort of gaming the system, if you will, in terms"},{"t":6030,"text":"of what we're trying to achieve. So all I'm happy"},{"t":6033,"text":"to second this and just wish you luck in all"},{"t":6038,"text":"of your thinking around this. And thank you, Mr. Dudley"},{"t":6040,"text":"and Mr. Bright. You did a great job. Yes, indeed."},{"t":6044,"text":"Anyone else on the motion rising. All right. All those"},{"t":6052,"text":"in favor of the motion rising. Anybody you posed. That"},{"t":6057,"text":"would appear to be unanimous. I believe that does resolve"},{"t":6059,"text":"that matter. Thank you, gentlemen. Uh, lovely to meet you."},{"t":6062,"text":"Thank you for coming. And thank you for all the"},{"t":6064,"text":"work that went into getting us to this point. Uh,"},{"t":6066,"text":"we have been sitting for quite a long time. And"},{"t":6069,"text":"so I'm going to suggest we take a short break"},{"t":6070,"text":"before we conclude the last two items on our open"},{"t":6074,"text":"agenda at Council. So let us return at 235. We"},{"t":6081,"text":"are, as I mentioned earlier, at the daytime Council meeting."},{"t":6084,"text":"We have moved to item H2. This is the update"},{"t":6087,"text":"for the Zoning Bylaw 2018 and Rezoning Applications for 1905"},{"t":6091,"text":"and 1907 Fort Street at 1923 and 1929 Davy Street"},{"t":6095,"text":"at the Development Permit with variances application pertaining to those"},{"t":6098,"text":"same addresses. I believe staff you would like to remind"},{"t":6103,"text":"us and provide us with some information about the various"},{"t":6106,"text":"pieces we have before us, including why we're rescinding a"},{"t":6109,"text":"third reading, why we're mending, et cetera, et cetera. So"},{"t":6111,"text":"I'm Mr. Gordon, I'm going to turn that over to"},{"t":6113,"text":"you to explain just what we're doing here. Thank you."},{"t":6118,"text":"Good afternoon, Mayor Council. My name is Jordi Gordon, senior"},{"t":6120,"text":"planner with playing and development. Before Council today is consideration"},{"t":6124,"text":"of two bylaws, as well as adoption of a development"},{"t":6126,"text":"permit with variances. Just as a reminder, the rezoning proposal"},{"t":6131,"text":"for the land, now known as 1933 Davie Street at"},{"t":6134,"text":"the corner of Fort Street and Davy Street is to"},{"t":6136,"text":"increase the density to permit the construction of a sick"},{"t":6139,"text":"story mixed - use residential rental building with 75 residential"},{"t":6142,"text":"units and ground floor commercial. This amendment byla is up"},{"t":6146,"text":"for consideration of final approval. However, prior to final approval,"},{"t":6151,"text":"it is recommended that Council Racine Third Reading of the"},{"t":6153,"text":"Bylaw and amend the bylaw before giving third reading and"},{"t":6156,"text":"final approval of the amended bylaw. The amendments are administrative"},{"t":6161,"text":"in nature and are necessary to reflect the consolidation of"},{"t":6165,"text":"the subject property from what we're previously for lots into"},{"t":6170,"text":"one. The appendix2 map also requires updating several properties have"},{"t":6175,"text":"been added to this map through a separate rezoning process"},{"t":6178,"text":"in the intervening time between third reading and consideration of"},{"t":6182,"text":"final adoption of this amended bylaw. Also before council is"},{"t":6186,"text":"consideration of introductory readings of the housing agreement bylaw to"},{"t":6190,"text":"secure rental tenure of the rezoning application and this bylaw"},{"t":6193,"text":"would be returned to council at a future meeting for"},{"t":6195,"text":"final approval. Great, okay. And Mr. Gordon, just to clarify,"},{"t":6200,"text":"the reason that we're needing to rescind is because there"},{"t":6202,"text":"are amendments required to what we originally gave third reading."},{"t":6207,"text":"Yes, that is correct. Those amendments specifically are to update"},{"t":6210,"text":"the legal information related to the property, as well as"},{"t":6213,"text":"that map for Zoning Bylat 2018. So there what you"},{"t":6217,"text":"would consider, I believe you mentioned calling them administrative in"},{"t":6219,"text":"nature. That is correct, through you. They do not change"},{"t":6223,"text":"the intent of the bylaw, any of the uses of"},{"t":6225,"text":"their permissions granted they're in. Very good, thank you very"},{"t":6227,"text":"much for that. Let's go first to, if there are"},{"t":6230,"text":"any questions, and I'm just going to caution everyone, the"},{"t":6235,"text":"fact that we're looking at rescinding third reading first is"},{"t":6238,"text":"going to limit what you're going to be able to"},{"t":6239,"text":"ask about. Most of your questions I suspect will pertain"},{"t":6243,"text":"to once we consider rescindment and then amendment, we will"},{"t":6247,"text":"then go to third reading of what is actually supposed"},{"t":6249,"text":"to be on the table. It's really at that point"},{"t":6252,"text":"that you should be asking questions of clarifications. Is that"},{"t":6256,"text":"clear? Yes, Councillor Gregory, go ahead. Where's the map. It's"},{"t":6263,"text":"attached to the file on the agenda, I believe. Can"},{"t":6268,"text":"you bring the map up? Yes, please, thank you."},{"t":6291,"text":"Is that the map you're requiring, Councillor? Well, I just"},{"t":6293,"text":"want to know the changes on the map, because we"},{"t":6295,"text":"rounded the problems with the whole OCP, a map boundaries."},{"t":6299,"text":"So Mr. Gordon, can you point out on this exactly"},{"t":6302,"text":"the reference that we're actually considering. Through you, I don't"},{"t":6307,"text":"think I could point out the specific properties, but they"},{"t":6310,"text":"were added as a result of, I believe, of Bill"},{"t":6312,"text":"25 that updated several properties. I think we could pull"},{"t":6315,"text":"those up if it was relevant. But I don't know"},{"t":6318,"text":"them. At this moment. Very good. So as I suggested,"},{"t":6323,"text":"I think what we could consider doing is speaking to"},{"t":6326,"text":"the rescindment and then the amendment of the original bylaw."},{"t":6329,"text":"And then when we get to the consideration of third"},{"t":6331,"text":"reading of that amended bylaw weekend, then open the floor"},{"t":6333,"text":"to general questions. Sufficient. Okay. So first I'm going to"},{"t":6338,"text":"look for a motion to rescind zoning bylaw 2018 amendment,"},{"t":6342,"text":"ByleU number 1926 - 001. Thanks, Councillor Coleman. SecondErby Consequera,"},{"t":6350,"text":"Donna. Do you have anything to say about rescinding the"},{"t":6352,"text":"matter, given what Mr. Gordon has shared. Not seeing any"},{"t":6355,"text":"comments, all those in favor rescinding. Does anyone oppose. That"},{"t":6360,"text":"is unanimous. With that then, we would propose then the"},{"t":6364,"text":"amendment of that same amendment bylaw, number 19, number 26"},{"t":6368,"text":"- 001 with someone like to propose the amendment of"},{"t":6370,"text":"that. Councillor Coleman, yes. And seconded by Councillor Thompson discussion"},{"t":6376,"text":"on the amendment. Not seeing any discussion on that. It's"},{"t":6379,"text":"all those in favor, anyone opposed. That is unanimous. So"},{"t":6384,"text":"now we have the Proper zoning bylaw in front of"},{"t":6387,"text":"us, and we are now considering third reading of that"},{"t":6389,"text":"now revised and Proper Zoning bylaw. Does anyone wish to"},{"t":6394,"text":"ask any questions about that. We are now speaking to"},{"t":6401,"text":"third reading, it was of the Properly amended Zoning bylaw"},{"t":6405,"text":"Amendment bylaw number 26 - 01. This we've done number"},{"t":6410,"text":"one. We've done number two, and now we're on number"},{"t":6413,"text":"three. Thank you, Mayor. You have questions on that? Yeah,"},{"t":6416,"text":"I'm still concerned I would hope that the community isn't"},{"t":6418,"text":"surprised in any way, but any change of map. Because"},{"t":6421,"text":"we had enough of that DOCP. Now I was hesitant"},{"t":6424,"text":"to support this application when it came to Committee the"},{"t":6426,"text":"Whole, and you will have significant impacts on the properties"},{"t":6430,"text":"to the South. I voted for it only because the"},{"t":6433,"text":"about to be approved OCP at the time, OCP 2050"},{"t":6437,"text":"would have a far greater negative impact on the existing"},{"t":6441,"text":"residential homes. And I was hoping the map would clarify"},{"t":6445,"text":"more, but I haven't really seen enough wheel detail of"},{"t":6448,"text":"it. And so I just wanted to make that point."},{"t":6451,"text":"Thank you. That's it, okay, great. Anyone else on third"},{"t":6456,"text":"reading. Checking online. No. All those in favor of third"},{"t":6461,"text":"reading. Anybody opposed. That is unanimous. We will go on"},{"t":6467,"text":"to adoption of the Zoning bylaw, that very same bylaw."},{"t":6471,"text":"I like to move that, please, Councillor Coleman, Councillor Thompson,"},{"t":6473,"text":"you're willing to second, yes. Coleman or Thompson, then you"},{"t":6476,"text":"comments. Any other comments. Not seeing any other comments. I"},{"t":6480,"text":"will just note that, um, Councillor Dell is not with"},{"t":6482,"text":"us momentarily, just as he has another commitment. Um, but,"},{"t":6486,"text":"uh, so we're avoiding on with eight people at Council."},{"t":6490,"text":"Although all those in favor of adoption. Anybody opposed. Councillor"},{"t":6496,"text":"Kim, I'm presuming you're in favor. It's just a slight"},{"t":6498,"text":"delay at my end watching it. Yes, very good, thank"},{"t":6500,"text":"you. So that is unanimous. Thank you. That moves us"},{"t":6503,"text":"on then to first, second, and third readings of the"},{"t":6505,"text":"related housing agreement. Something like to move that, please. Councillor"},{"t":6509,"text":"Thompson. And seconded by The Housing Agreement Rental Council, Caradona."},{"t":6516,"text":"Any comments on the housing agreement Councillor Thompson, Councillor Cardona,"},{"t":6519,"text":"I'm not seeing either any other comments. Not seeing any"},{"t":6522,"text":"more, all those in favor. And you want to pose"},{"t":6526,"text":"housing room at, nope, that's unanimous, thank you for that."},{"t":6528,"text":"And finally, the approval of the development permit with variances"},{"t":6531,"text":"on the same file, councillor Thompson, would you move that"},{"t":6534,"text":"Councillor Coleman? Are you seconding vote permit? Yes. Any comments"},{"t":6539,"text":"from Thompson or Coleman, seeing none and the other comments."},{"t":6542,"text":"Seeing non - knowledge in favor, anyone opposed. That is"},{"t":6546,"text":"also unanimous. Thank you for that. That deals with item"},{"t":6549,"text":"H2. Thank you very much for the Gordon for walking"},{"t":6551,"text":"us through that. That leaves us with one other item"},{"t":6553,"text":"in our open calendar today. This is the new item"},{"t":6557,"text":"new business, and this is item I - 1 at"},{"t":6559,"text":"749 Douglas Street. This is the Development Variance Permit for"},{"t":6562,"text":"this. I believe this is related to a sign. Do"},{"t":6566,"text":"we have any type of staff presentation on this, or"},{"t":6570,"text":"is this simply coming forward based on the materials attached"},{"t":6572,"text":"to the agenda. Seeing any Staffo, Mr. Johnston, do you"},{"t":6576,"text":"should speak to this at all? Nope. Yes. Thank you,"},{"t":6580,"text":"Mayor. I was just going to clarify we don't have"},{"t":6582,"text":"a presentation on this. This is just final consideration of"},{"t":6585,"text":"issuing the permit. Very good. Someone like to move this,"},{"t":6587,"text":"please. Anybody? What do you want to move the sun?"},{"t":6591,"text":"Thanks, Councillor Cardona. Anyone want to second the sign. Councillor"},{"t":6597,"text":"Coleman, Councillor Cardinal, any comments. This is the Tela. This"},{"t":6602,"text":"is the, not the Chalice sign. This is the, yeah,"},{"t":6604,"text":"it is a Telesign, actually. Nope, Coaster Coleman. Anybody else?"},{"t":6609,"text":"Those are Hammond? Council for Gardner. Thanks. Am I too"},{"t":6613,"text":"believed that this is what we're approving and what I"},{"t":6615,"text":"voted for last time is 10 times the size of"},{"t":6618,"text":"what would normally be allowed. Mr. Johnston, is that an"},{"t":6623,"text":"information that you can clarify, or do we need to"},{"t":6625,"text":"get a staff person here. Okay, I've got in front"},{"t":6629,"text":"of me that is 4. 5 metres, and it's 45."},{"t":6632,"text":"06 square metres. Yes, I believe that is correct. Okay."},{"t":6637,"text":"Yeah, I just thought, how did I miss that? Okay,"},{"t":6640,"text":"thank you. So I walked by it the other day"},{"t":6643,"text":"just two days ago, and after we got these correspondence"},{"t":6647,"text":"from people, and that's when I went, yikes, because I"},{"t":6650,"text":"saw exactly where they're putting it, because they're anticipating this"},{"t":6653,"text":"as someone had mentioned, and they're putting this stuff up."},{"t":6655,"text":"They've got pegs or whatever. And it's looking right at"},{"t":6659,"text":"people's homes. And so I thought, oh, I obviously did"},{"t":6664,"text":"not give this a lot of thought, and thank goodness"},{"t":6666,"text":"for the people who wrote in. I somehow doubt because"},{"t":6669,"text":"it was unanimous. I believe it was unanimous, that my"},{"t":6673,"text":"vote will change anything. But I just suddenly, like, and"},{"t":6677,"text":"the sign is just looking across the street. I mean,"},{"t":6680,"text":"it's not sort of going out somewhere else, unless I,"},{"t":6683,"text":"again, I walk past it, so I think I have"},{"t":6685,"text":"a good idea of what it was. And I thought,"},{"t":6687,"text":"that's just going to be right there staring at people."},{"t":6689,"text":"And I thought I wouldn't want that for something that's"},{"t":6692,"text":"so large. Thank you very much, Councillor Gardner. Thank you,"},{"t":6697,"text":"Mayor. And we consider the cell of scientist at the"},{"t":6700,"text":"May 21st Committee, the whole. At that meeting, Council was"},{"t":6703,"text":"told that there had been considerable communications with the residents."},{"t":6707,"text":"Indeed, cooperation. And that has been verified by residents. But"},{"t":6710,"text":"last week we received Communications from residents, which didn't paint"},{"t":6715,"text":"such quite such a rosy picture. So reading from a"},{"t":6719,"text":"submission received a week ago. I want to say that"},{"t":6722,"text":"many of us are pleased with the changes made to"},{"t":6724,"text":"the building before construction as a result of neighbourhood input."},{"t":6728,"text":"I think we have a building to be proud of."},{"t":6730,"text":"I was not pleased to receive this variance request. We"},{"t":6736,"text":"have all been through this before on signage. They agreed"},{"t":6741,"text":"to the present signage at the time, and we agreed"},{"t":6743,"text":"to the building with the changes made. So the writer"},{"t":6747,"text":"goes on to suggest that the larger signage sign was"},{"t":6752,"text":"not part of the agreement made with residents at that"},{"t":6755,"text":"time. In her words, a cheap shot at all residents"},{"t":6759,"text":"who worked so hard together to get results we were"},{"t":6762,"text":"willing to go along with. For all my neighbours in"},{"t":6765,"text":"the valley who worked on so diligently and so well"},{"t":6768,"text":"together, this feels like a mighty slap in the face"},{"t":6771,"text":"for all of us. So my questions, were staff members"},{"t":6775,"text":"of where of this preemant to signage between the residents"},{"t":6780,"text":"and tell us, or whoever presented on behalf of teles."},{"t":6785,"text":"Mr. Johnston, I'm not sure if this is something you"},{"t":6787,"text":"can answer or whether you need to have a different"},{"t":6791,"text":"staff person. Attend. But clearly there are some questions with"},{"t":6795,"text":"regard to any knowledge before Council agreed to either the"},{"t":6801,"text":"sign or to the application of the telespilt itself. And"},{"t":6803,"text":"I suspect it would be helpful if we had someone"},{"t":6805,"text":"here who could actually answer some of these questions. Thank"},{"t":6808,"text":"you, Mayor. We do have staff here who can help"},{"t":6812,"text":"to answer questions on the current sign application. And I"},{"t":6815,"text":"believe senior planner, Batanzo, maybe online who could provide some"},{"t":6820,"text":"of the background on, you perhaps discussions around the signage"},{"t":6825,"text":"at the time that the building was coming forward for"},{"t":6827,"text":"approval, because it sounds like that might be what the"},{"t":6831,"text":"writer is referring to. I suspect that's true. And I"},{"t":6834,"text":"see Mr. Patenzo online. Mr. Patanza, could you give us"},{"t":6837,"text":"a bit of a review on a recollection of where"},{"t":6840,"text":"this started with regard to signs. Sure. Uh, thanks for"},{"t":6844,"text":"that. Through yourself, Mayor, the initial application came in, and"},{"t":6850,"text":"I apologise, I can't remember the date, but, um, the"},{"t":6852,"text":"signage that was proposed was in some respects considered with"},{"t":6856,"text":"that initial application. And I recall Council requested that the"},{"t":6860,"text":"signage, uh, facing the harbour was removed, um, and with"},{"t":6864,"text":"only the signage, uh, facing north on Douglas Street to"},{"t":6867,"text":"remain, um, at that time, um, the, the signage that"},{"t":6872,"text":"was represented in the initial application is the same. That"},{"t":6876,"text":"is what's being represented with this variance. Um, notably, I"},{"t":6880,"text":"can't speak to what was shared with residents. I'm, I'm"},{"t":6884,"text":"unaware of any of that information. But what I can"},{"t":6886,"text":"speak to is that the signage proposed with the original"},{"t":6890,"text":"building proposal is the same as the signage being proposed"},{"t":6893,"text":"with this variance application. Thank you for that. That's very"},{"t":6897,"text":"helpful. Thanks, Mr. Gardner. Yeah, thank you very much. And"},{"t":6900,"text":"of course we received an email this morning of expressing"},{"t":6904,"text":"a lot of the same concern, uh, about the sign"},{"t":6907,"text":"from a major hotel. Who's in the area who seemed"},{"t":6909,"text":"not to know about it until just yesterday. So, um,"},{"t":6915,"text":"I know I gave some advanced notice though. It's going"},{"t":6917,"text":"to be asking some questions today. So I don't know"},{"t":6919,"text":"how much you were able to gather. We also had"},{"t":6921,"text":"a comic about the signage would even overpower the Empress"},{"t":6924,"text":"in some way. Do we have any schematic showing the"},{"t":6927,"text":"view from, shall we say, uh, scatter corner, pedestrian corner"},{"t":6932,"text":"to, to see what the tell us looks like. Cause"},{"t":6935,"text":"I know that TELUS, of course, is not on government."},{"t":6938,"text":"It's on Douglas. So, uh - huh. Mr. Danza, we"},{"t":6942,"text":"have some of your colleagues are here in the room,"},{"t":6944,"text":"uh, there are a number of them who are coming"},{"t":6945,"text":"up to the table, I believe to share some images"},{"t":6947,"text":"with us. Please go ahead. Thank you. Um, my name"},{"t":6951,"text":"is Brady Shields, Chief Building and Plumbing Inspector. Um, I"},{"t":6954,"text":"believe we have some images prepared. Showing. Just take a"},{"t":6963,"text":"second to pull them up. The coloured one probably is"},{"t":6966,"text":"the best one."},{"t":6977,"text":"Yes, that's the one. So this is, um, an image"},{"t":6980,"text":"that shows sort of the outline of the Empress in"},{"t":6982,"text":"that orange colour with the Telus building in blue. Um,"},{"t":6986,"text":"so you can see, if you look closely, the sign"},{"t":6989,"text":"on the Douglas Street frontage is down behind the Empress."},{"t":6993,"text":"So not visible from the harbour. Okay. That's good to"},{"t":6996,"text":"know. And so, and that's in proportion that tell a"},{"t":7000,"text":"sign that settled behind their course. I believe so. Yes."},{"t":7002,"text":"Okay. That's, that's in there. Will the signs be dimmed"},{"t":7006,"text":"in the evening. Through the mayor, I don't think there's"},{"t":7011,"text":"been, uh, official discussion on that, but, um, and speaking"},{"t":7015,"text":"with the applicant this morning, they have indicated that the"},{"t":7019,"text":"science are fully dimmable and can be shut off. And"},{"t":7022,"text":"they are willing to discuss and, um, open to that."},{"t":7029,"text":"Mayor, I seek your, uh, assistance to alter the motion"},{"t":7032,"text":"to put in, uh, that there would be dimming of"},{"t":7036,"text":"the sign. I can't say what lumen level. I don't"},{"t":7038,"text":"know what is shining at now and I don't know"},{"t":7040,"text":"what, uh, would be a reasonable nighttime one, perhaps. Um,"},{"t":7044,"text":"through the mayor, I did receive an email this morning"},{"t":7047,"text":"from, um, the representative at Telus. And they were talking"},{"t":7053,"text":"about a target of not exceeding. My apologies three foot"},{"t":7060,"text":"candles above ambient light. Sorry, how much? I couldn't hear"},{"t":7063,"text":"you. Uh, three point three foot candles. Okay. Um, but"},{"t":7069,"text":"basically they were looking at the trying to mimic the"},{"t":7072,"text":"neighbouring signs in the area and aiming to be just"},{"t":7077,"text":"below. Them. So slightly dimmer than, than the existing signs"},{"t":7080,"text":"such as the Marriott. Right. Okay. So it will be"},{"t":7083,"text":"the horses gardeners. Excuse me. It's really understand your earlier"},{"t":7086,"text":"question. Uh, I'm not prepared to entertain an amendment to"},{"t":7090,"text":"this motion because this does in fact have reliance of"},{"t":7094,"text":"various thresholds for approval. I would entertain a motion arising"},{"t":7098,"text":"that direct staff to work with Telus to minimize the"},{"t":7101,"text":"light pollution based on their sign. Great. Now I finished"},{"t":7104,"text":"asking my questions first. Yes. Thank you. Um, hang on,"},{"t":7109,"text":"go to write that down. The 3. 3 foot candles."},{"t":7114,"text":"Is that day or night. I believe that would be"},{"t":7118,"text":"night. I don't believe they're illuminated during the day. So"},{"t":7121,"text":"they are, um, stainless steel perforated signs. So they're not,"},{"t":7126,"text":"um, their channel letters. So they're sort of can letters."},{"t":7131,"text":"So it will be the light will be focused out"},{"t":7133,"text":"the front. It won't be coming out in all directions."},{"t":7136,"text":"So they're sort of shielded on the side. And then,"},{"t":7138,"text":"um, they're not like a typical plastic sign panel. So"},{"t":7142,"text":"it would be more of a diffused light just coming"},{"t":7144,"text":"through the perforations on the middle. So it would be"},{"t":7148,"text":"to be expected to be less bright or intense than"},{"t":7151,"text":"just a white sign panel. No, I got the directional"},{"t":7154,"text":"one from some work I didn't renovations in an office."},{"t":7158,"text":"Um, in the schematic you showed of the Empress, now"},{"t":7162,"text":"the emphasis sign is higher than the one on the"},{"t":7164,"text":"other side, is it not? Not the emphasize. I mean,"},{"t":7168,"text":"the west facing, is that sign. This sign on the"},{"t":7173,"text":"other, um. Angle of humble side? Yeah, it's going to"},{"t":7177,"text":"be lower. Is it not or is it that height."},{"t":7179,"text":"So that's the Douglas frontage there. So that one is"},{"t":7182,"text":"at the correct height, I think around the second or"},{"t":7185,"text":"third story. On the humble side, it is around the"},{"t":7188,"text":"11th floor. So that one is higher. This, yes, this"},{"t":7191,"text":"one here. Okay. So this is Mary up here. Help"},{"t":7198,"text":"me out. The height of the Marriott is adhere too."},{"t":7203,"text":"No, it is not on this one. And that's the"},{"t":7207,"text":"empress to the right. Yes. Of course that's seen from"},{"t":7211,"text":"another angle so it doesn't gotcha. Okay. That's my question."},{"t":7217,"text":"I'll have a motion arising there. Okay. Very good. Uh,"},{"t":7220,"text":"anything else on the motion itself. Any questions rather? Not"},{"t":7226,"text":"seeing any questions. Council Record on you move this Council"},{"t":7231,"text":"County second to this. If anything you want to add."},{"t":7235,"text":"No other questions or comments. Okay. Let's vote on this"},{"t":7237,"text":"and then we'll look for a motion rising on this"},{"t":7239,"text":"matter, all those in favor. Does anyone oppose. Councillor? You're"},{"t":7246,"text":"a post Councillor Hamdi Councillor Guardian or opposed. Without noting"},{"t":7249,"text":"that there are eight of us voting at this point,"},{"t":7251,"text":"that is adopted. Councillor Gardner, do you have a motion"},{"t":7253,"text":"arising. Yes. I'm showing the help of work. Go ahead."},{"t":7258,"text":"Whoops. Sorry. My mic wasn't on. Yes. Emotion arising along"},{"t":7263,"text":"the lines that there'd be further discussions with the, uh,"},{"t":7266,"text":"with CELUS to discuss. And whether or not it can"},{"t":7273,"text":"be modified. If there's any. Council Direct staff. To consult"},{"t":7281,"text":"with Telus and discuss options for minimizing light after dark."},{"t":7291,"text":"How's that? Except I understand from what we've just heard,"},{"t":7295,"text":"it's only going to be on at night after dark."},{"t":7297,"text":"Is that correct? Mr. Chiels. That is my understanding. Regardless"},{"t":7304,"text":"of that understanding, I think that the intent of this"},{"t":7305,"text":"is to ensure that there's minimized light disturbance when it's"},{"t":7309,"text":"actually dark out. I don't expect there would be much"},{"t":7311,"text":"disturbance during the day, even if they were on. So"},{"t":7314,"text":"with that then, if that suits you, Councillor Goner, I'll"},{"t":7317,"text":"look for a secondary. Thank you. Answer Coleman. Seconding. Anything"},{"t":7320,"text":"you'd like to add to either Council Gardner or Coleman."},{"t":7323,"text":"Um, yes, thank you. And thank you to tell us"},{"t":7326,"text":"for that beautiful building. But I hope that you, uh,"},{"t":7330,"text":"will continue consulting with the neighbours nearby with the residents"},{"t":7335,"text":"and the, uh, businesses who may be impacted by the"},{"t":7340,"text":"like. I think a lot could be done if you"},{"t":7342,"text":"have telesworked directly with them too. Besides staff having discussions."},{"t":7347,"text":"And I would hope that, uh, that would be done."},{"t":7350,"text":"Cause I think we want to happy neighbourhood to go"},{"t":7352,"text":"with this beautiful building. Thank you. Thank you just before"},{"t":7355,"text":"I go to Councillor Coleman. I think that should say"},{"t":7358,"text":"that the, um, the light from the sign after dark."},{"t":7363,"text":"Is what we did discuss earlier. Councillor Coleman, anything you'd"},{"t":7370,"text":"like to add. Nope. Okay. Any other comments on the"},{"t":7375,"text":"motion rising. Let's check online. Nope. Okay. All those in"},{"t":7378,"text":"favor. Anybody opposed. That is anonymous. Thank you very much"},{"t":7383,"text":"for that. And thank you very much for being here"},{"t":7384,"text":"to clarify those questions. Uh, that does in fact resolve"},{"t":7388,"text":"all of the items on our agenda at Council in"},{"t":7390,"text":"open. We do have a couple of closed commanders to"},{"t":7394,"text":"consider. So I would look to Mr. Kingsley, our clerk"},{"t":7397,"text":"to remind us of the sections of the Community Charter"},{"t":7399,"text":"that require or enable us to consider a matter enclosed."},{"t":7403,"text":"Thank you, Mayor. The reasons proposed today to close the"},{"t":7405,"text":"meeting are under section 91 F of the Community Charter"},{"t":7408,"text":"regarding a law enforcement matter. Section 91, I regarding the"},{"t":7412,"text":"receive advice. That is subject to solicitor client privilege and"},{"t":7415,"text":"section 92b regarding the consideration of information. Received and held"},{"t":7418,"text":"in confidence relating to negotiations with the municipality and another"},{"t":7422,"text":"level of government. Thank you very much for that. For"},{"t":7426,"text":"those reasons, may I have a motion to move into"},{"t":7427,"text":"close, please? Thanks, Councillor Coleman, seconded by Councillor Griloten. Any"},{"t":7433,"text":"discussion, all those in favor. Anyone opposed. That is unanimous."},{"t":7438,"text":"I would just remind the public that although you would"},{"t":7440,"text":"expect that we would have a regularly scheduled evening council"},{"t":7443,"text":"meeting on the second Thursday of the month, which would"},{"t":7445,"text":"be today. That has been rescheduled to July 23rd. So"},{"t":7448,"text":"that is not this evening. And it will occur for"},{"t":7452,"text":"your interest in two weeks. So we will see you"},{"t":7455,"text":"in one week at 9 a. m. next week for"},{"t":7458,"text":"our next committee of the whole meeting. Folks, since we"},{"t":7461,"text":"just did get up about a half an hour ago,"},{"t":7463,"text":"why don't we just, uh, wait for a staff to"},{"t":7465,"text":"flip us into closed, which we'll just take a couple"},{"t":7466,"text":"of minutes. And we will proceed on with the rest"},{"t":7469,"text":"of our agenda."}],"words":20562,"fetchedAt":"2026-10-03T04:54:16.664Z"}