{"videoId":"https://video.isilive.ca/victoria/New%20Encoder_COTW_2026-05-28-12-04.mp4","source":"isilive_vtt","segments":[{"t":4,"text":"Good morning everyone and welcome to the May 28th meeting"},{"t":8,"text":"of the Toyota City Council's Committee of the Whole. We"},{"t":12,"text":"are a full compliment today in person which is lovely."},{"t":15,"text":"Today we have for our consideration a presentation from one"},{"t":18,"text":"of our partners to land use matters and to Council"},{"t":21,"text":"Member Motions. But before we begin we always want to"},{"t":25,"text":"take a moment to ground ourselves in the work that"},{"t":27,"text":"we do and the opportunities that we have to make"},{"t":30,"text":"important and really quite impacting decisions. By the fact that"},{"t":34,"text":"we are sitting here on the territories of the La"},{"t":37,"text":"Quangan people, the Songies and the Cosapsum Nations who have"},{"t":40,"text":"for so many generations taken it upon themselves to be"},{"t":43,"text":"stewards of these lands and the waters that surround them."},{"t":48,"text":"On a day like today in particular, it is easy"},{"t":51,"text":"to understand why those decisions were made by those members"},{"t":54,"text":"for so many years to ensure that we have the"},{"t":57,"text":"opportunity to enjoy the circumstances that we see today around"},{"t":61,"text":"the Environment in which we live certainly the climate in"},{"t":65,"text":"which we live and the opportunities that both of those"},{"t":68,"text":"things bring to us. The nations themselves have managed to"},{"t":72,"text":"really remarkably extol their own resilience and being able to"},{"t":77,"text":"endure the many challenges that we have placed in front"},{"t":80,"text":"of them over the years and have managed to arise"},{"t":83,"text":"above much of that, although certainly that evolution and resilience"},{"t":86,"text":"continues to expand. As we have the opportunity when we"},{"t":90,"text":"do whatever we gather to reflect just for a moment"},{"t":93,"text":"on the relationship, the remarkable and rich relationship that we"},{"t":95,"text":"have with both nations and to reflect a little bit"},{"t":98,"text":"on how much benefit that brings to us in our"},{"t":101,"text":"ability to learn from one another. And to work with"},{"t":104,"text":"one another on a variety of programs and projects and"},{"t":106,"text":"policies and just ways that we live together that will"},{"t":109,"text":"benefit all of the people who live in these lands"},{"t":113,"text":"here in the City of Victoria and in the region"},{"t":115,"text":"as well. And so when we gather each time we"},{"t":117,"text":"like to sort of take a moment to reflect a"},{"t":120,"text":"little bit and I always urge people in each of"},{"t":122,"text":"their days to take a personal moment or two to"},{"t":125,"text":"see what to has had an impact on their lives"},{"t":128,"text":"given the opportunities they have to be here and hope"},{"t":130,"text":"that some experience that you have in each day reflects"},{"t":134,"text":"that in a very personal way. Of course we like"},{"t":136,"text":"to say Hydrogassium NickWulia, which is just to say thank"},{"t":139,"text":"you and to offer just a tiny glimmer of the"},{"t":142,"text":"language that is full of so much impact and so"},{"t":145,"text":"respectful of somebody different phrases. And that is to offer"},{"t":148,"text":"our thanks to all of you who are here and"},{"t":151,"text":"our respect to all of you who are choosing to"},{"t":153,"text":"do work for the Betterment of Community, not just here"},{"t":156,"text":"in City Hall, but throughout all of our communities in"},{"t":159,"text":"our homes and parks and spaces and anywhere that you"},{"t":161,"text":"choose to make a difference. Hi, chicus, I'm Nickelia. I"},{"t":167,"text":"have no remarks to add today, and so we will"},{"t":169,"text":"go immediately to the rest of the agenda. We're going"},{"t":172,"text":"to late items to add today, of which I'm aware."},{"t":174,"text":"And so we would go to looking for a motion"},{"t":177,"text":"to approve the agenda as published. Thank you Councillor Coleman,"},{"t":180,"text":"seconded by Councillor Thompson. Any discussion of the agenda? Yes,"},{"t":183,"text":"Councillor Gardner on the main agenda. Thank you. The recently"},{"t":188,"text":"approved Council Procedure Policy directs councillors to give two weeks"},{"t":191,"text":"notice on motions while Councillor receives only days notice for"},{"t":194,"text":"major files. Well I identify this as a problem during"},{"t":197,"text":"the procedures by - law discussions. It came to light"},{"t":200,"text":"again last week when another councillor commented that there'll be"},{"t":204,"text":"an insufficient time to properly assess a major file. As"},{"t":208,"text":"confirmed a few weeks ago mayor, we understand this is"},{"t":210,"text":"your agenda and sometimes some councillors get to share the"},{"t":213,"text":"agenda meeting with you. I have never experienced that, so"},{"t":216,"text":"I'm not sure what happens at such a meeting. Today"},{"t":219,"text":"that short motives period is significant because we have BC"},{"t":223,"text":"Transit Update followed by two large development proposals. And sadly"},{"t":227,"text":"I think some information may be missing from these that"},{"t":233,"text":"we will need to make decisions. And this may not"},{"t":236,"text":"hold up matters today, but I think it may reflect"},{"t":240,"text":"an example of discounting of public and council consideration. And"},{"t":244,"text":"so I do have one specific request of you mayor."},{"t":247,"text":"And that is when we get to the cathedral, which"},{"t":249,"text":"is G2, that we be permitted time beyond the time"},{"t":254,"text":"that you have limited within the Council Procedures bylaw to"},{"t":257,"text":"speak to any issues with that application. Thank you for"},{"t":261,"text":"that. When we get to that point, that certainly a"},{"t":263,"text":"matter you can raise. And as you're aware, two things"},{"t":266,"text":"I think I heard you discuss. One was the notification"},{"t":269,"text":"period around large items. You'll know for sure that our"},{"t":273,"text":"protocols in that matter refer to Council Member Motions. So"},{"t":277,"text":"that's not applicable to a staff matter or a land"},{"t":280,"text":"use matter. However, the second part, you're certainly welcome, as"},{"t":283,"text":"is the case within our rules and procedures, uh, to"},{"t":286,"text":"propose a motion to suspend the rules of procedure temporarily"},{"t":290,"text":"for a particular item for a specific purpose. And at"},{"t":294,"text":"that time you're welcome to do so. I'm asking to"},{"t":296,"text":"do that right now, because this is talking about the"},{"t":298,"text":"agenda and the procedures we will be following so that"},{"t":301,"text":"I don't consume the bit of time I have on"},{"t":304,"text":"this motion. I would rather have it considered now. I"},{"t":308,"text":"would actually not accept that as a proposal at this"},{"t":311,"text":"point because to suspend the rules at this point could"},{"t":313,"text":"have an impact on the entire agenda. Uh, I will"},{"t":316,"text":"allow you the opportunity to present that proposal without it"},{"t":319,"text":"affecting your time at that item. Thank you. You're welcome."},{"t":324,"text":"With that then, uh, is there any other comment on"},{"t":326,"text":"the public agenda. Seeing none, all those in favor of"},{"t":330,"text":"the agenda. Anybody opposed. That is unanimous. We do have"},{"t":335,"text":"a couple of items suggested for the consent agenda. That"},{"t":338,"text":"would be both of the Council Member Motions, item H1,"},{"t":341,"text":"a Council Member Motion with regard to Advocacy to extend"},{"t":344,"text":"local government climate action program funding. And item H2, the"},{"t":348,"text":"Council Member Motion with regard to increasing protections for Victoria"},{"t":352,"text":"Renters. Does anyone wish to add or remove any items"},{"t":355,"text":"from consent? Yes, Councillor Caridona. Uh, I'm okay with leaving"},{"t":360,"text":"H1, but I want to take off each two because"},{"t":362,"text":"I do have questions. Okay. That's H2, we'll take that"},{"t":366,"text":"off. Anything else? You'd like to add or remove. Oh,"},{"t":370,"text":"okay. So that removes item H2 from consent and relieves"},{"t":374,"text":"then only item H1. So the consent agenda is composed"},{"t":377,"text":"of just the one item. That would be item H1"},{"t":380,"text":"that Council Member Motion with regard to advocacy to extend"},{"t":382,"text":"local government climate action program funding. With that then, uh,"},{"t":387,"text":"with someone like to move the consent agenda, thanks Councillor"},{"t":389,"text":"Coleman, second of my Council Kim, all those in favor."},{"t":392,"text":"Anybody opposed. That is unanimous. That moves us on today"},{"t":397,"text":"to our one presentation and that is a presentation from"},{"t":400,"text":"our colleagues at BC Transit. And so folks, if you'd"},{"t":403,"text":"like to come up to the centre table, make yourself"},{"t":406,"text":"comfortable. And when you're ready, you can introduce yourselves and"},{"t":410,"text":"set off. Thank. You, Gravity."},{"t":420,"text":"Turn your mic on, please. Very good. Yes, I know."},{"t":424,"text":"It seems a bit counterinther. Red means it's on it."},{"t":427,"text":"There you go. Thank you very much, Mayor and Council"},{"t":429,"text":"for the invitation for BC Transit staff to come present"},{"t":432,"text":"today on the update for our Victoria Regional Transit Plant."},{"t":436,"text":"Uh, with me today is our manager of service planning"},{"t":439,"text":"for Victoria Levi Meganburg, as well as Simon Button, who's"},{"t":441,"text":"in the audience. He's part of our infrastructure team. So"},{"t":445,"text":"as we have City Victoria staff that we've been working"},{"t":447,"text":"very closely in collaboration with over the past year with"},{"t":450,"text":"regards to this project. So we certainly invite and encourage"},{"t":452,"text":"any questions after this presentation is complete. Um, before we"},{"t":456,"text":"begin though, I just wanted to acknowledge that, uh, you"},{"t":458,"text":"know, we're presenting to all the councils and the regional"},{"t":461,"text":"district as part of this presentation. But this one, uh,"},{"t":463,"text":"for the City Victoria is extra symbolic, largely in the"},{"t":467,"text":"sense of the role that transit is played with regards"},{"t":469,"text":"to shaping this region and how Victoria really is the"},{"t":472,"text":"heartbeat of the transit system overall. So I think it's"},{"t":475,"text":"just recognising the symbolism of the history of the role"},{"t":478,"text":"that Trans is played in the region and where Transit"},{"t":480,"text":"is going in the future for the region. It has"},{"t":482,"text":"to start from the City Victoria, the City Victoria is"},{"t":484,"text":"the heartbeat of Transit. And just to put things in"},{"t":487,"text":"perspective, we had a conversation with Councillor Coleman earlier, uh,"},{"t":490,"text":"before this Council presentation. And he just sort of alluded"},{"t":493,"text":"to the important relationship with regards to our citizens and"},{"t":497,"text":"how they interact with Transit. And just to note that"},{"t":499,"text":"there's 36, 000 people that board Transit each day in"},{"t":503,"text":"the City of Victoria. And if you consider the role"},{"t":506,"text":"that that experience has with Transit for the rest of"},{"t":508,"text":"their day, that interaction with the bus and the interaction"},{"t":511,"text":"with the driver, whether it's a resident or a tourist"},{"t":514,"text":"or a student, it just begins to show the importance"},{"t":518,"text":"the transit plays with regards to shaping the overall, um,"},{"t":521,"text":"you know, the economy and the sense of community that,"},{"t":523,"text":"uh, city has. Um, so what we're going to do"},{"t":526,"text":"today is Levi Meganburg is going to provide an overview"},{"t":528,"text":"of the Victorial Transit Plan in just a little bit"},{"t":530,"text":"of a spoiler on it is that this is our"},{"t":533,"text":"update for our 25 year vision. So the last time"},{"t":536,"text":"we did this was in 2011. And that's not to"},{"t":539,"text":"say that we haven't done any work since then. Since"},{"t":541,"text":"2011, we've really focused on area transit plans. So focusing"},{"t":544,"text":"on particular regions, as an example, James Bay or the"},{"t":548,"text":"Jubilee, uh, but we thought that it was timely now"},{"t":551,"text":"that we're post - pandemic to go through that full"},{"t":553,"text":"vision update with regards to where we want the region"},{"t":555,"text":"to be with Transit for the next 25 years. And"},{"t":559,"text":"just to note, there's really two parts to this plan"},{"t":561,"text":"that we're focusing on. The first is we have a"},{"t":563,"text":"transit network that works really well today. But how do"},{"t":566,"text":"we make it even better with the existing envelope of"},{"t":570,"text":"resources we have? As an example for that is how"},{"t":572,"text":"do we make our buses go faster, which is the"},{"t":575,"text":"key thing that a lot of our customers have asked."},{"t":577,"text":"And on the other side of that, we really need"},{"t":578,"text":"to set the direction of where do we want to"},{"t":580,"text":"go. In the future. So 25 years from now, what"},{"t":584,"text":"is our transit network look like? And that's part of"},{"t":586,"text":"the big moves, uh, package of the presentation that Levi"},{"t":589,"text":"will go into detail in regards with regards to those"},{"t":592,"text":"lighthouses that we're targeting our transit system to go into"},{"t":595,"text":"the future. So with that, again, we'll invite and encourage"},{"t":598,"text":"questions afterwards, but I'll hand it to my colleague Levi"},{"t":600,"text":"to give an overview of where we are with this"},{"t":602,"text":"process. Thank you,"},{"t":612,"text":"Matt. Um, so today really just providing an update for"},{"t":615,"text":"the 25 year vision for the transit network as Matt"},{"t":618,"text":"alluded to, um, and then the big moves. I'm going"},{"t":622,"text":"to skip this actually. I'm not already touched on it."},{"t":626,"text":"Um, so beyond the, before we dive into the 25"},{"t":629,"text":"year vision for the Transit Network, I think the value"},{"t":631,"text":"in just spending a bit of time on some of"},{"t":632,"text":"the key accomplishments we have achieved within the transit system"},{"t":635,"text":"over the last five years. So some of those key"},{"t":637,"text":"initiatives include the implementation of our, um, uh, electronic FAIR"},{"t":642,"text":"collection technology, YUMO. And last week we just introduced tap"},{"t":645,"text":"to pay with debit and credit, which was a major"},{"t":647,"text":"step forward for the Transit system. Very exciting. Um, we"},{"t":650,"text":"continue to roll up battery bus. We have 25 out"},{"t":653,"text":"of electric buses out on the street now. And more"},{"t":655,"text":"are coming. Uh, in the coming years, uh, we recently,"},{"t":659,"text":"last year completed the handy dart facility in view royal"},{"t":661,"text":"allowing us to expand handy dart for the first time"},{"t":664,"text":"in over 10 years, which is a huge step forward"},{"t":666,"text":"for the region. Um, but bus lanes on Douglas and"},{"t":671,"text":"are continuing to move forward for construction. We'll continue to"},{"t":674,"text":"improve speed and reliability for transit across the region. Uh,"},{"t":678,"text":"we launched our first rapid bus alignment, uh, in 2023."},{"t":682,"text":"The blink Victoria Langfort route that we're continuing to invest"},{"t":686,"text":"in and looking to improve moving forward. And then finally"},{"t":688,"text":"the province implemented the kids 12 and under ride free"},{"t":691,"text":"program in 2021. And we've seen a significant increase in"},{"t":695,"text":"ridership from youth within our region, which has been fantastic"},{"t":697,"text":"to see. Our current system, we operate almost 60 routes."},{"t":702,"text":"We have over 300 conventional transit buses, almost 60 handy"},{"t":706,"text":"dart buses. This year we're budgeted to deliver over 900,"},{"t":709,"text":"000 annual service hours. Um, so our system is continued"},{"t":713,"text":"to grow. Um, similarly 26 million trips within the, within"},{"t":718,"text":"the transit system. And that's continuing to grow. With respect"},{"t":723,"text":"to the public engagement to support this process, um, it"},{"t":726,"text":"was the second largest response we've seen for any engagement"},{"t":730,"text":"process BC transit has ever conducted only surpassed by the"},{"t":734,"text":"YYJ engagement we did shortly thereafter. So it was great"},{"t":737,"text":"to see the number of people come out to speak"},{"t":739,"text":"with us, both were our online survey and through our"},{"t":742,"text":"open house. Events. We consulted 23 different stakeholder groups that"},{"t":745,"text":"included all of the neighbourhood and community associations across the"},{"t":748,"text":"region major employers and key institutions. Um, what did we"},{"t":752,"text":"hear? We heard a lot of feedback, but if we"},{"t":755,"text":"boil it down to a few simple sound bites, uh,"},{"t":757,"text":"people really want more frequency, uh, they want more reliable"},{"t":760,"text":"service. There was a huge amount of support for rapid"},{"t":763,"text":"transit. It was probably about 80 percent of the open"},{"t":765,"text":"comments we heard was wanting to see more rapid transit"},{"t":768,"text":"faster. Um, and then a desire for simplified roots and"},{"t":771,"text":"direct connections within the transit network. One of the core"},{"t":778,"text":"components of this plan is the development of comprehensive network"},{"t":781,"text":"and root design guidelines. We've seen a huge amount of"},{"t":783,"text":"change within the region, um, over the last five plus"},{"t":785,"text":"years. And we expect that's going to continue into the"},{"t":788,"text":"future. So these guidelines, uh, will establish a demand -"},{"t":791,"text":"based framework for supporting the evolution of the transit network"},{"t":794,"text":"as the region continues to grow, change and adapt. So"},{"t":796,"text":"we don't need to come back and update this every"},{"t":798,"text":"five years. Um, so it's really providing that roadmap. What's"},{"t":802,"text":"the value of this? It's really to provide clarity to"},{"t":804,"text":"the public, our local government partners and to us at"},{"t":807,"text":"BC Transit Transit around, Hey, if a community builds a"},{"t":810,"text":"certain type of node or has certain density on a"},{"t":814,"text":"certain corridor, this is the kind of service that you"},{"t":815,"text":"can expect. So just really improve clarity and transparency. Uh,"},{"t":819,"text":"and then finally, as MAD alluded to in the short"},{"t":822,"text":"term, uh, there's opportunities to modernize the existing service, uh,"},{"t":825,"text":"to squeeze more value out of our existing system and"},{"t":828,"text":"to build upon a new foundation moving forward into the"},{"t":830,"text":"future. So that really brings us to the big reveal,"},{"t":833,"text":"uh, which is the 10 big moves that the, uh,"},{"t":836,"text":"Transit system is, is looking to move forward on over"},{"t":839,"text":"the next 25 years. Um, I will note these are"},{"t":841,"text":"draft and we're still looking for feedback and input, um,"},{"t":844,"text":"but what are the key components here? So you'll note"},{"t":846,"text":"that about 50 percent of these big moves are rapid"},{"t":850,"text":"directly rapid transit oriented. And that really aligns with what"},{"t":853,"text":"we heard through public engagement and what we know we"},{"t":855,"text":"need to do to move the needle for transit mode"},{"t":857,"text":"share into the, into the future within the region. Um,"},{"t":860,"text":"two more of them, the six mile mobility hub and"},{"t":862,"text":"the uptown mobility hub are really just support. The cornerstone"},{"t":866,"text":"initiative, um, which is the higher order transit between downtown"},{"t":869,"text":"Victoria and the West shore. Um, so really seven of"},{"t":872,"text":"10 are really focused around supporting the evolution of our"},{"t":874,"text":"epid transit. Beyond that, we have the frequent Transit Network"},{"t":879,"text":"development and network modernization. I'll provide a little more context"},{"t":882,"text":"on that because the bit to unpack. And then modernizing"},{"t":885,"text":"the handy dart service and better integrating our interregional connections,"},{"t":889,"text":"uh, between NaNIMO all the way down to Victoria. Within"},{"t":893,"text":"the rapid transit initiatives here, I mentioned the higher order."},{"t":897,"text":"We don't have a specific slide on that. So I'm"},{"t":899,"text":"just going to try a little more detail here. We"},{"t":900,"text":"know the alignment currently between downtown Victoria and the six"},{"t":904,"text":"mile area. Um, that's, that's sort of going to be"},{"t":907,"text":"baked in within the plan. But the, um, the West"},{"t":910,"text":"Shore municipalities have changed significantly. So we need to really"},{"t":913,"text":"look at how revisit that alignment. So that's a key"},{"t":918,"text":"component. A new. Network modernization. I mentioned really building out"},{"t":926,"text":"that frequent transit grid. This really aligns with the city's"},{"t":928,"text":"new official community plan, uh, really aligning between where you're"},{"t":931,"text":"applying to put density and making sure it's supported with"},{"t":933,"text":"high quality transit. Um, the additional regional express service, uh,"},{"t":937,"text":"within the new guidelines that we'll be looking to layer"},{"t":939,"text":"on top of this network on top of rapid transit."},{"t":943,"text":"And then there's a new service layer that we've piloted"},{"t":946,"text":"in Kelowna and just recently extended to, um, squamish, uh,"},{"t":950,"text":"which is digital and demand. Uh, so there's potentially some"},{"t":953,"text":"lower density areas within the City of Victoria jurisdiction that"},{"t":957,"text":"could be a candidate for this type of service in"},{"t":959,"text":"the future. Mataluted to what can we do in the"},{"t":962,"text":"short term, um, recognising we need a huge amount of"},{"t":965,"text":"investment in the current provincial funding environment. Um, so we"},{"t":969,"text":"have a lot of service duplication on key corridors. I"},{"t":971,"text":"would point to Douglas Street as one of those. We"},{"t":974,"text":"have 20 routes that serve certain sections of Douglas. So"},{"t":977,"text":"is there a way we can squeeze more value and"},{"t":979,"text":"provide more coverage for frequent transit throughout the transit system."},{"t":983,"text":"Uh, we can look at stop spacing. There's certain quarters"},{"t":986,"text":"where they're very close together currently. And we actually got"},{"t":988,"text":"quite a bit of feedback through engagement that people are"},{"t":990,"text":"willing to walk a little farther to transit if it"},{"t":992,"text":"means they can have more frequent service. And then bus"},{"t":995,"text":"speed and reliability is really critical. We've been seen about"},{"t":998,"text":"one and a half percent decrease in travel speed in"},{"t":1001,"text":"our transit network year over year over the last 10"},{"t":1003,"text":"to 15 years. And so finding ways to speed up"},{"t":1006,"text":"and improve the reliability of our transit system and supporting"},{"t":1009,"text":"our local governments in improving that. I think is a"},{"t":1011,"text":"really key step moving forward in the future. Other rapid"},{"t":1015,"text":"transit initiatives, um, so beyond the higher order alignment to"},{"t":1019,"text":"the West shore. There may be a need for a"},{"t":1022,"text":"supplemental, uh, rapid bus corridor within the West shore as"},{"t":1026,"text":"it continues to grow and develop. The key thing for"},{"t":1028,"text":"City of Victoria, I think. And these are new within"},{"t":1030,"text":"this plan is the consideration for extension of rapid transit"},{"t":1033,"text":"to Jubilee and James Bay, which is something that, uh,"},{"t":1036,"text":"emerged to the process based off the growing density of"},{"t":1038,"text":"those nodes. And also, um, the projected future growth and"},{"t":1042,"text":"density along the corridors, uh, leading to those nodes as"},{"t":1047,"text":"well. And next steps for that really involves a study"},{"t":1050,"text":"with city Victoria to confirm which alignment those would operate"},{"t":1053,"text":"on and how we would move forward, including public engagement."},{"t":1058,"text":"So when it comes to implementation, I think we need"},{"t":1061,"text":"to acknowledge this plan is extremely ambitious. Uh, it's still"},{"t":1065,"text":"looking to achieve a 15 percent transit mode share over"},{"t":1068,"text":"the next 25 years, which is over doubling our current"},{"t":1070,"text":"transit mode chair within the region. Um, so what does"},{"t":1073,"text":"this require? Of course, over doubling the number of buses"},{"t":1075,"text":"in our transit system and implementation of higher order transit,"},{"t":1080,"text":"whether that be light rail or trackless trams, um, this"},{"t":1082,"text":"is something that we need to move towards within the"},{"t":1085,"text":"life cycle of this, this plan. Um, achieving the plan,"},{"t":1090,"text":"because it's so ambitious, it really is a shared responsibility."},{"t":1093,"text":"We all have a role to play within the region,"},{"t":1095,"text":"uh, BC Transit in terms of how the network is"},{"t":1097,"text":"designed. And it evolved the province in terms of coming"},{"t":1100,"text":"to the table in a different way with respect to"},{"t":1102,"text":"funding. The CRD in terms of how we can support"},{"t":1105,"text":"the region from Transportation Demand Management and whatever other roles"},{"t":1108,"text":"the CRD brings to the table through the regional transportation"},{"t":1110,"text":"service. And each local government in terms of how can"},{"t":1113,"text":"we make transit move more quickly and efficiently? Um, on"},{"t":1118,"text":"key corridors within each municipalities jurisdiction. So specific to the"},{"t":1123,"text":"City of Victoria. What are some of those key next"},{"t":1125,"text":"steps in initiatives? So I think the first is really,"},{"t":1128,"text":"uh, the extension of the bus lanes on Douglas through"},{"t":1131,"text":"the downtown core. Five of the seven busiest bus stops"},{"t":1134,"text":"within the region are within the downtown Douglas Street corridor."},{"t":1140,"text":"As mat alluded to 36, 000 people traversed the section"},{"t":1143,"text":"of Douglas Street between Hillside and Belleville, um, so the"},{"t":1147,"text":"huge number of people utilising that service and small improvements"},{"t":1150,"text":"in speed and reliability can make life better for a"},{"t":1152,"text":"lot of people and save a lot of resources for"},{"t":1154,"text":"the system to reinvest and improve service levels. Uh, to"},{"t":1158,"text":"collaborate with BC Transit Transit on exploring rapid transit extension"},{"t":1161,"text":"to Jubilee and James Bay. Implementing Transit Priority on frequent"},{"t":1166,"text":"transit corridors. So we can expedite the rollout of the"},{"t":1169,"text":"full frequent transit network and support the City Victoria's land"},{"t":1172,"text":"use goals. Um, and then continue to provide accessibility and"},{"t":1176,"text":"infrastructure improvements at bus stops. Um, which really does fall"},{"t":1179,"text":"within the local government's jurisdiction and I understand the new"},{"t":1182,"text":"shelters coming along Douglas, which is exciting. And we look"},{"t":1184,"text":"forward to seeing that continue to roll out. And then"},{"t":1187,"text":"I would say the city's already doing an amazing job"},{"t":1190,"text":"on this, but continuing to support transit with transit supportive"},{"t":1193,"text":"land use. Um, and so we're moving in the right"},{"t":1196,"text":"direction and look forward to continuing to collaborate with the"},{"t":1198,"text":"city on that movie into the future. So in terms"},{"t":1202,"text":"of the next steps, we're presenting this draft plan to"},{"t":1205,"text":"all municipality across the region in the capital regional district."},{"t":1208,"text":"Um, we just presented to the CRD yesterday. And so"},{"t":1212,"text":"the several more to go. Uh, we're also doing a"},{"t":1214,"text":"final round of key stakeholder engagement. So that includes all"},{"t":1217,"text":"our neighbourhood and community associations, major employers, um, and then"},{"t":1220,"text":"once we've made any final tweaks to this draft plan,"},{"t":1222,"text":"we plan to bring it back to the commission at"},{"t":1224,"text":"the end of July, uh, and then bring it back"},{"t":1227,"text":"finally early September for formal endorsement. Um, the final thing"},{"t":1231,"text":"I'll say here, uh, the CRD is in the process"},{"t":1234,"text":"of updating their regional transportation plan right now. And that"},{"t":1237,"text":"will be complete a little bit after the VRTP sort"},{"t":1240,"text":"of a year later. And so there is an opportunity"},{"t":1242,"text":"once that wraps up to just, um, make some minor"},{"t":1246,"text":"tweaks and adjustments to this plan to ensure the regions"},{"t":1248,"text":"moving forward and lockstep on regional transportation. So with that,"},{"t":1252,"text":"I want to thank you so much for having us"},{"t":1254,"text":"here today and look forward to answering any questions. Council"},{"t":1256,"text":"may have. Thank you very much for both of you."},{"t":1259,"text":"Matt and Levi. Let's turn, the decision for us here"},{"t":1261,"text":"today. This is information only. And so we'll turn to"},{"t":1263,"text":"Council and see if they have any questions or comments."},{"t":1266,"text":"Council Hammond. Thanks and thanks for the presentation and through"},{"t":1272,"text":"you mayor. When you say that your plan is ambitious"},{"t":1276,"text":"to get to number you're at now. Uh, I believe"},{"t":1283,"text":"as of the 2020, or sorry, the 2022 CRD origin"},{"t":1286,"text":"destination household survey was between six, around 6. 5, I"},{"t":1291,"text":"believe. Okay. The previous OD we repet about seven and"},{"t":1294,"text":"a half. So the COVID impacts there. Um, so hovering"},{"t":1298,"text":"probably seven, seven and a half percent would be my"},{"t":1301,"text":"guess. But that will be confirmed in the series. It"},{"t":1304,"text":"just gives me a general idea. And when you said"},{"t":1307,"text":"COVID, is there any rationale now that COVID is over,"},{"t":1313,"text":"um, as to why people are taking it less? Or"},{"t":1315,"text":"is it just not as, that people have been working"},{"t":1318,"text":"from home and they continue to work from home? Or"},{"t":1321,"text":"is there are there other reasons that you've got why"},{"t":1323,"text":"the numbers are still, um, below pre - COVID levels."},{"t":1327,"text":"Uh, certainly. So through the chair, I'll take a stab"},{"t":1329,"text":"at it, maybe map, may have some things to add."},{"t":1332,"text":"I will say, um, that writership has continued to, uh,"},{"t":1336,"text":"grow since the 2022 survey. And we're actually, we've exceeded"},{"t":1340,"text":"our pre - COVID ridership within the system now, which"},{"t":1342,"text":"is great to see. Um, and we, we, we definitely"},{"t":1347,"text":"see the work from home, uh, policies still in effect"},{"t":1351,"text":"in certain ways, but it's been sort of less common."},{"t":1355,"text":"Like I know the province has, has eased sort of"},{"t":1357,"text":"those policies. And I think that's accounted for some of"},{"t":1359,"text":"the ridership growth. And I'll turn it over to map."},{"t":1363,"text":"Yeah. Through the chair, uh, yes, ridership has exceeded pre"},{"t":1366,"text":"- pandemic levels. And I just want to acknowledge too"},{"t":1368,"text":"that during the pandemic while other transit agencies in North"},{"t":1371,"text":"America were cutting their service as a result of lower"},{"t":1373,"text":"ridership, which resulted in sort of that vicious, you know,"},{"t":1376,"text":"cycle with regards to reliability is that the province contributed"},{"t":1380,"text":"funding to keep the service on the road during that"},{"t":1383,"text":"time. So that when society got back to normal, that"},{"t":1387,"text":"the ridership could come back. And as a result of"},{"t":1389,"text":"that investment, we've, again, we've, uh, exceeded Radship levels pre"},{"t":1394,"text":"- pandemic. And again, a lot of credit too for"},{"t":1396,"text":"the Fairy Under 12 program, which was launched a few"},{"t":1398,"text":"years ago, which has had a major impact with regards"},{"t":1401,"text":"to the amount of boardings they're taking place within the"},{"t":1403,"text":"region. And likewise, for the City Victoria, you have your"},{"t":1405,"text":"own Fairfree policy with regards to youth as well. That"},{"t":1409,"text":"is a huge contributor with regards to routership in the"},{"t":1410,"text":"region. So through you, Mayor, when I read in the"},{"t":1415,"text":"newspaper or here on the news that the writership isn't"},{"t":1420,"text":"at its highest level. Does that mean that that's incorrect?"},{"t":1425,"text":"Or I'm not, I'm not listening properly. Yeah. Through the"},{"t":1428,"text":"chair. I think that in, uh, the past year or"},{"t":1432,"text":"so, we have seen ridership more or less level off."},{"t":1436,"text":"And the cause of that is we're still trying to"},{"t":1438,"text":"investigate that. And we've been working closely with our colleagues"},{"t":1440,"text":"of Trancelink as well and other transit agencies in North"},{"t":1442,"text":"America. But some of the contributing factors with regards to"},{"t":1446,"text":"sort of a ceiling of ridership writewing is largely related"},{"t":1449,"text":"to recent immigration policy from the federal perspective, which had"},{"t":1452,"text":"an impact with regards to post - secondary enrollment from"},{"t":1455,"text":"non - domestic students. Uh, so international students are usually"},{"t":1458,"text":"a huge driver of Transit ridership. So that change in"},{"t":1460,"text":"policy at an impact with regards to our, uh, demand."},{"t":1464,"text":"Uh, and likewise, just economic conditions and population growth as"},{"t":1467,"text":"well throughout the province, not only in the Victoria region"},{"t":1470,"text":"has also had a natural impact with regards to transit"},{"t":1473,"text":"ridership. With that being said, we are still seeing, you"},{"t":1476,"text":"know, a steady, you know, not necessarily a huge amount"},{"t":1478,"text":"of growth over year over year, but certainly in a"},{"t":1481,"text":"positive direction. Okay. Thanks. And through you mayor, for someone"},{"t":1486,"text":"like myself, when transit is available in big numbers, when"},{"t":1490,"text":"I lived in Toronto and Vancouver, for example, those 22"},{"t":1493,"text":"years I went without a car. And I was the"},{"t":1496,"text":"early users of Moto. It was called CAN back then."},{"t":1499,"text":"And if you don't know what it was, then you"},{"t":1501,"text":"can look it up as to why it's can. Anyway,"},{"t":1503,"text":"the thing is that for me, it was a great"},{"t":1505,"text":"deal of convenience. And it also, I love the fact"},{"t":1508,"text":"that I didn't own a car and didn't have to"},{"t":1510,"text":"take care of a car. Uh, here I hardly ever"},{"t":1513,"text":"take transit. And the reason for it is I live"},{"t":1515,"text":"close. You know, don't live far from government house. Um,"},{"t":1518,"text":"I'm usually on my bike more than I am anywhere"},{"t":1521,"text":"else. And then I use Transit occasionally for going to,"},{"t":1524,"text":"let's say, um, the ferry, uh, haven't done it yet"},{"t":1527,"text":"for the airport. But the thing is that whenever I"},{"t":1530,"text":"hear, cause I'm always intrigued having been a person who"},{"t":1535,"text":"uses it when it's, when it's there, is that it"},{"t":1538,"text":"seems like our CATH22 is that more people, it appears"},{"t":1544,"text":"would be willing to take it, but there does not"},{"t":1546,"text":"appear to be the interest of the funders the government"},{"t":1550,"text":"funders to give you the more, like the chicken and"},{"t":1553,"text":"the egg. Cause I, you know, when people say anything"},{"t":1556,"text":"about it, I would think that if you gave more"},{"t":1559,"text":"transit, so you put the money out there and you,"},{"t":1562,"text":"and you had more, um, ability for people to be"},{"t":1565,"text":"on transit, then you'd have the faster, um, the faster,"},{"t":1568,"text":"um, use that, of course, you're talking about that people"},{"t":1571,"text":"are wanting. And, and then people go, okay, I see"},{"t":1574,"text":"it and I'll get on it. But at the moment,"},{"t":1578,"text":"am I wrong in thinking that the biggest levels of"},{"t":1581,"text":"funding that you get, which presumably is mostly from the"},{"t":1583,"text":"province, um, that they're just not willing to allow you"},{"t":1587,"text":"to do that investment of giving it up front with"},{"t":1590,"text":"the hope that people will get on it. Or am"},{"t":1595,"text":"I off on that? Like, like, is that a difficulty"},{"t":1597,"text":"for you. I'll start and dive in. Yeah. Yeah. We're"},{"t":1604,"text":"both passionate about this topic. I think is that through"},{"t":1606,"text":"the chair, I think that in order to make transit"},{"t":1609,"text":"super effective, you have to make it effortless. Super easy."},{"t":1613,"text":"And effortless means frequency, right? In the sense that I"},{"t":1615,"text":"don't even need to look at a schedule I can"},{"t":1616,"text":"walk down to Shelburn Street, which is where I live"},{"t":1618,"text":"and I can just catch the bus. I never look"},{"t":1620,"text":"at the schedule because it's so frequent. Um, and in"},{"t":1622,"text":"order to get to frequency as you alluded to, you"},{"t":1624,"text":"need funding because extra service costs more money. And the"},{"t":1627,"text":"current way that the, uh, the model for BC Transit"},{"t":1630,"text":"is there's a lockstep cost share model where the local"},{"t":1633,"text":"government partners contribute half. And then the province contributes half"},{"t":1637,"text":"as well. So the local government supply for additional expansion"},{"t":1640,"text":"funding, then the province also has to match that. Otherwise"},{"t":1643,"text":"the expansion doesn't happen. And we'll say for the past"},{"t":1646,"text":"few years, the province has been very supportive with regards"},{"t":1648,"text":"to expansion funding. We've added, you know, dozens of buses"},{"t":1651,"text":"as well as tens of thousands of hours. For this"},{"t":1653,"text":"year, we did not get the provincial approval for additional"},{"t":1656,"text":"expansion funding. So we won't be at able to add"},{"t":1658,"text":"an additional service this year. With that being said, and"},{"t":1661,"text":"I think a Levi alluded to it, a big component"},{"t":1663,"text":"of this plan is that how do we fund these"},{"t":1665,"text":"big projects and these big moves? So we are working"},{"t":1668,"text":"closely with the province as part of this process. And"},{"t":1670,"text":"we're working closely with our executive team as well as"},{"t":1672,"text":"our board of erectors and senior leadership team with regards"},{"t":1675,"text":"to making sure that we not only have a plan"},{"t":1677,"text":"in place with regards to where we want to go,"},{"t":1679,"text":"but we at least have a blueprint with regards to"},{"t":1680,"text":"how are we going to fund this service and really"},{"t":1683,"text":"motivate the partners, whether it be federal, provincial, or local"},{"t":1688,"text":"with regards to making sure that transit is a worthy"},{"t":1690,"text":"investment of their time. And just really quickly to add"},{"t":1695,"text":"there, um, I just want to ree allude to the"},{"t":1697,"text":"importance of us all working together on this one, both"},{"t":1700,"text":"in terms of lobbying for increased funding. Like it's a"},{"t":1703,"text":"significant increase in investment trajectory required to achieve the outcomes"},{"t":1707,"text":"of this plan. And that's going to require some advocacy."},{"t":1709,"text":"I think at all levels, um, the other core component"},{"t":1711,"text":"is we all have a role to play in making"},{"t":1713,"text":"transit great within the region. And, um, as I mentioned,"},{"t":1716,"text":"we've seen transit travel speed decreased by about 1. 5"},{"t":1719,"text":"percent per year If we could even drop that to"},{"t":1722,"text":"half a percent or not decrease at all. Suddenly our"},{"t":1725,"text":"investments will have significantly better value in terms of actually"},{"t":1729,"text":"improving the quality of service out on our street. So,"},{"t":1732,"text":"um, we're looking forward to continuing to work with our"},{"t":1734,"text":"local governments in the coming years after the approval of"},{"t":1736,"text":"this plan. And really identifying opportunities to speed transit up"},{"t":1740,"text":"and improve the amount of service that we can put"},{"t":1742,"text":"out onto the road. Thanks, Mayor. Could I ask two"},{"t":1745,"text":"more questions? Thanks. Um, on that issue of, um, of"},{"t":1752,"text":"where you get the funding and you say, because the"},{"t":1754,"text":"province is cut back for various reasons. And us advocating,"},{"t":1759,"text":"I believe there is a Department of shredding within the"},{"t":1761,"text":"provincial government, maybe the federal that any time we give"},{"t":1764,"text":"a resolution, they immediately take it there and say, okay,"},{"t":1767,"text":"this is the important work that you need to do"},{"t":1768,"text":"in the shredding department. Because we advocate, but it's only"},{"t":1772,"text":"so far. Um, so the question is, do you, more"},{"t":1779,"text":"than a hope and a prayer, do you really see"},{"t":1782,"text":"that the provincial government is expecting to make the suppriority"},{"t":1787,"text":"in our region and give more money in the future?"},{"t":1791,"text":"I know you're, yeah, I just thought of either that."},{"t":1793,"text":"Go ahead. Your crystal ball there, Matt. Yeah. Yeah. Through"},{"t":1796,"text":"the chair, I know that we work very closely and"},{"t":1799,"text":"it just for what it's worth symbolically, the ministry of"},{"t":1801,"text":"Transportation and Transit. So they've actually rebranded their provincial branch"},{"t":1806,"text":"to include the reference to Transit, which I think is"},{"t":1808,"text":"an important symbolic sort of reference. I know that, uh,"},{"t":1811,"text":"we as a staff level working very closely with the"},{"t":1813,"text":"province on regular basis. Likewise, our executive team, our commission"},{"t":1816,"text":"as well as our board is working closely with the"},{"t":1817,"text":"province. So that's a really, really important factor. Um, in"},{"t":1820,"text":"the sense of making sure that they're prioritizing investments in"},{"t":1823,"text":"transit, not only from an infrastructure perspective, but also from"},{"t":1826,"text":"an operating dollar's perspective well. And I won't lie and"},{"t":1829,"text":"say that it's easy. And the, you know, the money"},{"t":1831,"text":"tree that makes this happen. But I think that there's"},{"t":1833,"text":"a lot of different services that require attention across the"},{"t":1836,"text":"province and in cities. And I think that it's our"},{"t":1838,"text":"role at BC Transit with the support of local governments"},{"t":1841,"text":"to really advocate for transit and to tell the story"},{"t":1843,"text":"with regards to why investing in transit is important, which"},{"t":1846,"text":"is, I think, a big part of why we're putting"},{"t":1847,"text":"this plan and ultimately a story together that if you"},{"t":1850,"text":"invest in this, it's going to be to the benefit"},{"t":1854,"text":"of, you know, your economics, your climate, your community with"},{"t":1859,"text":"regards to, um, making things better. Great. And the last"},{"t":1862,"text":"question, Mayor, is I'm just wondering if this is an"},{"t":1865,"text":"example of a dilemma that you've got. And therefore, we"},{"t":1868,"text":"have all got, and this is just me following in"},{"t":1871,"text":"the news about the expansion to, or the change to"},{"t":1876,"text":"have the buses go directly to the airport. That appears,"},{"t":1880,"text":"unless something has changed to come at the cost of"},{"t":1882,"text":"people spending what perhaps another 10 minutes or something being"},{"t":1886,"text":"rerouted from their direct line to Sydney. And it caused"},{"t":1890,"text":"a lot of problem. Is that, is that an example"},{"t":1892,"text":"of what you're dealing with when you want to improve"},{"t":1895,"text":"one area that at the moment until you get more"},{"t":1897,"text":"funding, you've got to take away from something else, or"},{"t":1900,"text":"if you don't want to use the word take away,"},{"t":1902,"text":"you have to shift something else, which means someone else"},{"t":1905,"text":"is not going to have the same convenience or time"},{"t":1907,"text":"they had before. You went? Yeah. Great question through the"},{"t":1909,"text":"chair. Um, as Matt alluded to, we didn't get provincial"},{"t":1914,"text":"expansion approval this year, but we, the commission had some"},{"t":1916,"text":"very strong aspirations to make improvements to airport service. So"},{"t":1919,"text":"I think in any year where we don't have expansion"},{"t":1922,"text":"funding, but the desire to see the system function in"},{"t":1925,"text":"a different way or prioritize in a different way. Staff"},{"t":1927,"text":"have the ability to look at opportunities to reallocate resources,"},{"t":1931,"text":"change how things function. And I think that's really what"},{"t":1933,"text":"you're alluding to is in an environment where we didn't"},{"t":1936,"text":"have expansion. These were some options that could be considered"},{"t":1940,"text":"that don't cost anything in dollars, but potentially has impacts"},{"t":1943,"text":"to others within the system. Um, so I think once"},{"t":1946,"text":"again, building towards this future over the next 25 years,"},{"t":1949,"text":"we're really going to need to increase the amount of"},{"t":1951,"text":"investment to achieve it. Um, but there's also things we"},{"t":1953,"text":"can do in the short term, even if there isn't"},{"t":1955,"text":"funding to improve how the network functions, um, and those"},{"t":1958,"text":"are some of those components that we spoke to in"},{"t":1960,"text":"the presentation. Great. Councillor. Thank you for the presentation. 25"},{"t":1970,"text":"year vision. And I like your phrases shaping the region,"},{"t":1974,"text":"but centred in the city Victoria. So and I appreciate"},{"t":1977,"text":"the need to have more to move more efficiently. Or"},{"t":1981,"text":"you said faster. And, um, well, the heartbeat of the"},{"t":1985,"text":"transit, the residents need for livability and transit is our"},{"t":1989,"text":"concern. And we all have a world to play, as"},{"t":1994,"text":"you said, all work together. But the impacts, the overload"},{"t":1998,"text":"of large vehicles on residential streets is of concern to"},{"t":2002,"text":"me. And, uh, so I have some questions that are"},{"t":2007,"text":"kind of related to that. Excuse me. Now, um, likes"},{"t":2013,"text":"Councillor Hammond, I used to only use Transit for many,"},{"t":2016,"text":"many years when living in larger cities and also when"},{"t":2019,"text":"I visit other countries. But it's very different here. Now"},{"t":2023,"text":"from your big moves, I don't think I saw, but"},{"t":2026,"text":"I can't recall. If you can go to that, uh,"},{"t":2029,"text":"thing, most important things I think for a lot of"},{"t":2031,"text":"people in the city is the airport affairs. And I"},{"t":2036,"text":"really don't see that much of an emphasis on that"},{"t":2037,"text":"here because that's where I think that most people I"},{"t":2040,"text":"know really need to go. So is that really, I"},{"t":2046,"text":"mean, Bit has been mentioned about that, but until that"},{"t":2049,"text":"occurs. I mean, that's key. I realise it's not key"},{"t":2052,"text":"for the Western communities, but it's really key for the"},{"t":2054,"text":"people that live here. So yeah, great question. So through"},{"t":2059,"text":"the chair, we didn't focus too much on that, but"},{"t":2062,"text":"a couple of the other rapid transit initiatives, uh, really"},{"t":2065,"text":"critical for the region includes the peninsula rapid transit alignment."},{"t":2068,"text":"Um, so within the draft plan, we've indicated that that"},{"t":2072,"text":"will incorporate direct service to YYJ as a core component"},{"t":2075,"text":"of that future rapid bus alignment. Um, and then as"},{"t":2079,"text":"well as the ferries, maintaining the current sort of fairy"},{"t":2082,"text":"connection that we have with the Route 70, um, and"},{"t":2084,"text":"then the Mackenzie Rapid Transit line, which is really trying"},{"t":2087,"text":"to serve the core, um, the Yuvik, which is a"},{"t":2092,"text":"huge demand driver for the Transit system. Um, so those"},{"t":2095,"text":"were two additional ones that I didn't spend much time"},{"t":2097,"text":"on, but we have accounted for those, um, within the"},{"t":2100,"text":"plan. Okay. Catholic, they are key for the people that"},{"t":2102,"text":"live here. Cause this, the people that live in our"},{"t":2105,"text":"city don't live in the Western communities. Yes. We need"},{"t":2108,"text":"to bring those other people in. But I'm really more"},{"t":2112,"text":"concerned about other, these other aspects. Let me go to"},{"t":2116,"text":"Vancouver, the Transit on the other side of that ferry"},{"t":2118,"text":"is superb. Here it's the pits. And we really have"},{"t":2122,"text":"to make that better. And I would never take Transit"},{"t":2125,"text":"to the airport. I mean, no way I'm going to"},{"t":2127,"text":"stand on the PAC day at strange hours of the"},{"t":2130,"text":"night or day to catch a voss. I mean, this"},{"t":2133,"text":"really, I think has to be a top priority. Now"},{"t":2136,"text":"James Bay already has a high level of pedestrian cycle"},{"t":2139,"text":"and transit use. And it seems to be a target"},{"t":2141,"text":"of some of this. Do you have the percentage of"},{"t":2143,"text":"ridership now for the Jamie's Bay Area. For the people"},{"t":2146,"text":"that live there. Great questions through the chair. I don't"},{"t":2149,"text":"have that statistic in my back pocket at this moment,"},{"t":2152,"text":"but, uh, we could certainly look into it and get"},{"t":2154,"text":"back. What time when we did a survey a long"},{"t":2155,"text":"time ago, those three levels of walking pedestrian that were,"},{"t":2158,"text":"I mean, they were sky high, higher than anyone's targets."},{"t":2161,"text":"So which leads to my next question, really. With BC"},{"t":2166,"text":"Transit and many, many, many crews related buses, James Bay"},{"t":2169,"text":"is inundated with buses for over 200 days a year."},{"t":2173,"text":"Uh, and of special concerned is the, uh, BC Transit"},{"t":2177,"text":"buses heading soft of Belleville. How many BC Transit Busy"},{"t":2182,"text":"Vance using valuable are currently experienced and how many when"},{"t":2185,"text":"the rapid transit services are introduced. Yeah. Certainly. So through"},{"t":2189,"text":"the chair, we actually received, uh, letter from the James"},{"t":2192,"text":"Bay neighbourhood association, uh, specifically asking us to incorporate, uh,"},{"t":2196,"text":"the consideration for rapid transit extension to James Bay. Um,"},{"t":2200,"text":"so, so beyond that as well as the level of"},{"t":2204,"text":"density, meeting the thresholds to support that kind of service."},{"t":2208,"text":"Um, is largely why we've put this in as a"},{"t":2210,"text":"potential service extension. Once again, it's indicated. It's not saying"},{"t":2214,"text":"that we will do it. It's we need to, uh,"},{"t":2217,"text":"do further work and study in public engagement to explore"},{"t":2219,"text":"the opportunity to do so. Um, but I think the"},{"t":2222,"text":"fact that we received, uh, clear, uh, a clear desire"},{"t":2226,"text":"from the neighbourhood association to include the idea in the"},{"t":2229,"text":"plan is largely what has led us to put that"},{"t":2231,"text":"in terms of the level of service. So we have"},{"t":2235,"text":"the root two, um, and, and five that collectively provide"},{"t":2239,"text":"very close to full frequent transit service levels within the"},{"t":2241,"text":"James Bay neighbourhood. Um, and so we'll have the opportunity"},{"t":2247,"text":"to revisit how transit functions in the James Bay area,"},{"t":2252,"text":"uh, within the next couple of years after the completion"},{"t":2254,"text":"of this plan. And we'd look to engage very closely."},{"t":2257,"text":"Great. Thank you. Do you have the numbers I asked"},{"t":2259,"text":"for. How much is currently now, what is the traffic"},{"t":2262,"text":"looks? I've been trying to get this for quite a"},{"t":2264,"text":"while from the city and we don't have it. What"},{"t":2266,"text":"is the traffic load? How many buses are coming in"},{"t":2268,"text":"onto the belville right now. Because we've had major issues"},{"t":2273,"text":"and also with JBNA, people that live there because of"},{"t":2276,"text":"the road. How many are currently, how many trips a"},{"t":2279,"text":"day, how many buses are sitting there on Belville that"},{"t":2282,"text":"come in through the Douglas? That's a good new, I"},{"t":2284,"text":"believe, uh, do you have the numbers? I said that"},{"t":2286,"text":"he does not have that information. Thank you. Okay. Get"},{"t":2289,"text":"back to us with that information. Now the current buses,"},{"t":2293,"text":"like you mentioned two and five, they go to, uh,"},{"t":2296,"text":"willows and Ogbe. That's the name of them. Which is"},{"t":2300,"text":"great because that's where people go because it takes people"},{"t":2302,"text":"to the hospitals. And it takes them to the rec"},{"t":2305,"text":"centre that's closest to James Bay. So. Will the rapid,"},{"t":2311,"text":"where is the wrap up transit take people this plan,"},{"t":2314,"text":"take people from James Bay? Will it include taking them"},{"t":2317,"text":"to places they need to go such as Okbe, the"},{"t":2321,"text":"Jubilee area and Okbey? Because this shows two arrows going"},{"t":2323,"text":"that way. Whereas James Bay, people go that way. Yeah."},{"t":2328,"text":"Great question through the chair. Um, in the two years"},{"t":2331,"text":"after the completion of this plan, we would be undergoing"},{"t":2334,"text":"a comprehensive network review process that would include significant additional"},{"t":2338,"text":"planning. Um, significant public engagement. So we don't have specific"},{"t":2343,"text":"rooting proposals in the plan. We're showing the big moves"},{"t":2347,"text":"and identifying where sort of key frequency of service is,"},{"t":2350,"text":"but we really do need to do a targeted review,"},{"t":2353,"text":"um, including more planning work, much more engagement before we"},{"t":2356,"text":"can propose any specifics with any level of confidence. Okay."},{"t":2361,"text":"Thank you. So your rapid transit isn't going to anywhere."},{"t":2364,"text":"It's just going to be there. Like, I don't understand"},{"t":2367,"text":"where it's going. From James Bay. Leave it? Yeah. So"},{"t":2371,"text":"through the chair, we still as indicated in the presentation,"},{"t":2375,"text":"next steps for this particular initiative. We need to work"},{"t":2378,"text":"very closely with City of Victoria staff to figure out"},{"t":2381,"text":"the exact proposed routing and alignment. Um, and so we'll"},{"t":2386,"text":"have to come, come back with more information once we've"},{"t":2389,"text":"undertaken that study and update city Victoria at that time."},{"t":2393,"text":"Okay. Um, the city is building a 200 million dollar"},{"t":2396,"text":"pool. In North Park on quadra. How long will it"},{"t":2401,"text":"take residence to get from the know from the West"},{"t":2405,"text":"Vic West, shall we say the West part of the"},{"t":2408,"text":"West or the south of James Bay or the Northeast"},{"t":2411,"text":"of Oaklands to that. 200 million dollar project. Are we"},{"t":2418,"text":"going to have any consideration of that routing. Certainly through"},{"t":2423,"text":"the chair. Um, so quadrice street is currently operating at"},{"t":2428,"text":"this very close to the 15 minute all day service."},{"t":2430,"text":"And that connects into all of the transit routes that"},{"t":2433,"text":"converge on Douglas Street, providing very high frequency of service."},{"t":2437,"text":"Um, and easy connections, um, and so currently the system"},{"t":2440,"text":"is really designed to make, uh, to bring people in"},{"t":2444,"text":"to the downtown core and easily transfer to get to"},{"t":2448,"text":"the new facility that's, that's being planned and constructed. So"},{"t":2452,"text":"we ordered the network order does accommodate, um, great levels"},{"t":2455,"text":"of service and easy connections to make that travel movement."},{"t":2458,"text":"Throughout Victoria. So right now from Southern James Bader, quad"},{"t":2461,"text":"repoole, what would that be looking like? Certainly. So through"},{"t":2465,"text":"the chair, uh, essentially hop on the route number route"},{"t":2468,"text":"two, the number two or the number five and hop"},{"t":2471,"text":"off, uh, downtown, uh, hop on the route six. And"},{"t":2474,"text":"that would take you directly to the Douglas in fourth."},{"t":2478,"text":"Uh, I believe just up. Yes. Yes at Fort in"},{"t":2481,"text":"Douglas is where the six would pick up. Okay. Thank"},{"t":2484,"text":"you. And so that would take depending on the transfer"},{"t":2486,"text":"there. Okay. Um, given the heavy volume of buses being"},{"t":2491,"text":"driven through the residential neighbourhood of James Bay, will there"},{"t":2494,"text":"be a high priority for electric buses to travel through"},{"t":2496,"text":"James Bay. Leroy. Uh, so through the chair, um, we"},{"t":2501,"text":"can't speak to the details of that. There's a lot"},{"t":2506,"text":"of complexity associated with the planning and scheduling of the"},{"t":2510,"text":"transit network. And at this point, we can't make specific"},{"t":2513,"text":"promises that a particular neighbourhood would be prioritized for electric"},{"t":2517,"text":"buses. There's a lot of factors, including how far, um,"},{"t":2521,"text":"on any vehicle block, any specific bus can operate and"},{"t":2526,"text":"obviously battery electric buses can't be out. For as long"},{"t":2529,"text":"as a diesel bus, for example. So the factors, um,"},{"t":2532,"text":"that we need to retain flexibility for now. What I"},{"t":2535,"text":"can say is we are operating 25, uh, batterylectric buses"},{"t":2538,"text":"within the fleet currently, um, which is exciting. And we"},{"t":2541,"text":"have many more planned to arrive in the coming years"},{"t":2543,"text":"as well. Okay. I'm just going to tell you my"},{"t":2546,"text":"fear. And that's because of that arrow. Cause the arrow"},{"t":2548,"text":"looked like it's going to Ogden Point. Uh, and I"},{"t":2551,"text":"realised that's not what it means. It means James Bay."},{"t":2555,"text":"So my request is really this. For every new bus"},{"t":2557,"text":"rock going to James Bay that it's not especially ones"},{"t":2560,"text":"that aren't being used by residents. Cause right now you're"},{"t":2563,"text":"parking some buses in Ogden to go to the Western"},{"t":2565,"text":"communities that aren't used by James Bay. But they parked"},{"t":2568,"text":"there or they were. I don't know if they are"},{"t":2569,"text":"this year. They have been. And so I would hope"},{"t":2573,"text":"that every new bus would bring into Jane's Bay that"},{"t":2575,"text":"you eliminate some so we don't have more because we"},{"t":2578,"text":"have so many hundreds this morning. I even had problems"},{"t":2582,"text":"turning two corners because there were some oversized buses turning"},{"t":2585,"text":"tight corners in James Bay when I drove here. They"},{"t":2589,"text":"weren't BC Transit buses. But when a community is inundated"},{"t":2593,"text":"with these other huge buses that no one seems to"},{"t":2596,"text":"want to control, it really compounds the problems that you"},{"t":2600,"text":"have to deal with. And so that's really my request"},{"t":2604,"text":"is that we'd be very, very careful of that because"},{"t":2607,"text":"we have now got, of course, Ogden Point is also"},{"t":2610,"text":"the, uh, waste deposit area for the whole Alaska cruise"},{"t":2614,"text":"run, which means we've got all those heavy vehicles coming"},{"t":2616,"text":"in. And with seven or 10, 000 tons of a"},{"t":2619,"text":"year of extra waste materials. So I'm just asking you"},{"t":2623,"text":"to be very conscious of the needs of the residency"},{"t":2628,"text":"change of eight, but also realising that the community itself"},{"t":2632,"text":"is being inundated and overrun by huge vehicles. That aren't"},{"t":2636,"text":"serving the community. Again, they're not BC Transit vehicles, but"},{"t":2641,"text":"they're nevertheless. That's the reality of the resonance. So again,"},{"t":2644,"text":"thank you very much for your presentation. And we hope"},{"t":2650,"text":"that you can help perhaps solve some of the problems"},{"t":2652,"text":"that are in James Bay and elsewhere. And again, I"},{"t":2655,"text":"think real priority from at least the South part of"},{"t":2659,"text":"the city is to get to the university in Camosu,"},{"t":2664,"text":"um, very much. That's very much of importance without having"},{"t":2666,"text":"to go through. When my grandkids came and we had"},{"t":2669,"text":"to use transit, I refused to take them to Douglas"},{"t":2671,"text":"and Fort. I'm not using Fort Street. Not with what's"},{"t":2675,"text":"what they're right now. It's just not in the cards"},{"t":2678,"text":"for me to take children to that area. So, and"},{"t":2681,"text":"that is a challenge. You did not create that problem,"},{"t":2683,"text":"but it is a challenge that we have. So thank"},{"t":2685,"text":"you very much for your presentation. Thank you Councillor Coronado."},{"t":2689,"text":"Thanks very much. And through you, thanks for being here."},{"t":2692,"text":"I had a chance to see you yesterday at the"},{"t":2694,"text":"CRD and appreciate all the time you guys are doing"},{"t":2696,"text":"with the, with the road show to go to all"},{"t":2698,"text":"the Logovernments. I wanted to talk about something that we"},{"t":2701,"text":"talked about at the last Transit Commission meeting. Uh, in"},{"t":2705,"text":"the context of the YYJ Direct Service bus, which I"},{"t":2708,"text":"brought up on purpose because the misinformation around it, which"},{"t":2711,"text":"is about how the funding model works. Because it has"},{"t":2714,"text":"been reported on recently that BC Transit has a surplus."},{"t":2719,"text":"However, as we all know, there are restrictions based upon"},{"t":2724,"text":"the transit act and how those monies can be used."},{"t":2727,"text":"So I thought maybe this is an opportunity since more"},{"t":2729,"text":"people watch Victoria City Council than Transit Commission meetings for"},{"t":2732,"text":"you to have an opportunity to talk about why it"},{"t":2735,"text":"is that when we have a surplus, we have the"},{"t":2737,"text":"Transit Commission, it doesn't necessarily mean that we can have"},{"t":2739,"text":"service expansion. Matt. Through the chair, yes, we had a"},{"t":2744,"text":"robust discussion at that at the last commission meeting and"},{"t":2747,"text":"just note that, uh, the Victorial Trans system ended the"},{"t":2751,"text":"25, 26 fiscal year with a 12. 6 million surplus"},{"t":2754,"text":"driven by higher than expected passenger revenue and lower operating"},{"t":2758,"text":"and lease costs. Under the BC Transit Act, all transit"},{"t":2761,"text":"revenues must be pooled into a single fund with a"},{"t":2763,"text":"fixed provincial local cost sharing formula. So that overage is"},{"t":2767,"text":"sort of pool in that fund. Um, however, legislative constraints"},{"t":2769,"text":"require any surplus to be held in reserves intended to"},{"t":2772,"text":"manage future financial risks and ensure system stability, not to"},{"t":2776,"text":"fund immediate service expansion. So that is the language that's"},{"t":2779,"text":"written legislatively with regards to how those monies can be"},{"t":2781,"text":"used. So BC Transit in the commission do not have"},{"t":2783,"text":"the authority to redirect surplus funds towards new service without"},{"t":2787,"text":"this legislative change. And just noting too that that would"},{"t":2790,"text":"require amending the BC Transit Act overall. Yeah. And thank"},{"t":2793,"text":"you for that. And thanks for that clarification. I think"},{"t":2795,"text":"at some point we do have to have a conversation"},{"t":2796,"text":"about potentially advocating to amend the transit act. However, one"},{"t":2800,"text":"of your colleagues was reminding me that not that long"},{"t":2802,"text":"ago the situation was flipped. And local governments were in"},{"t":2805,"text":"a situation where we were a bit cash for the"},{"t":2807,"text":"province had more money for transit. Now that's, that's changed."},{"t":2810,"text":"And we have a surplus and the province has financial"},{"t":2812,"text":"challenges. So it kind of depends on the moment. And"},{"t":2814,"text":"that's something we want to keep in mind if we"},{"t":2816,"text":"do broach that topic. I did want to note in"},{"t":2819,"text":"terms of, um, Council Hammond's comments around YYJ. I don't"},{"t":2823,"text":"know if it was clearly conveyed in the media, but"},{"t":2826,"text":"where we ended up landing is that instead of pillaging"},{"t":2829,"text":"resources from the other service in Sydney, what we ended"},{"t":2832,"text":"up doing is redeploying. Double decker buses. That have additional"},{"t":2836,"text":"capacity to run direct service only in the early morning"},{"t":2840,"text":"and the late evening. So the main part of the"},{"t":2842,"text":"day from seven to nine p. m. 7 a. m."},{"t":2844,"text":"to 9 p. m. There's not going to be direct"},{"t":2846,"text":"service to YYJ because it would have required pillaging services"},{"t":2849,"text":"from elsewhere. And the township of Sydney said, please don't"},{"t":2852,"text":"do that. And other writers said we don't want to"},{"t":2854,"text":"add 10 minutes. So we found this kind of compromised"},{"t":2856,"text":"position where there will be some direct service for red"},{"t":2859,"text":"eye flights. And also for the hundreds of workers who"},{"t":2862,"text":"work at YYJ. But without doing that. But that is"},{"t":2865,"text":"a good example of how we can't just unilaterally expand"},{"t":2868,"text":"service without the province cost sharing it. And in this,"},{"t":2872,"text":"in this moment, they are not willing to cause share"},{"t":2874,"text":"anything additional because they have a budget crunch. So we"},{"t":2877,"text":"are, it was a kind of Rob Peter for Paul's"},{"t":2880,"text":"situation potentially there. I do think it's important for under"},{"t":2882,"text":"people to understand that because we do have these really"},{"t":2884,"text":"ambitious targets of 15 percent. And we're at 6. 5."},{"t":2888,"text":"There's really no way to get there without additional. Well,"},{"t":2892,"text":"let me put that as a question. Is there any"},{"t":2893,"text":"way to get to 15 percent without additional investment from"},{"t":2895,"text":"the province? Levi. Is there fine tuning and efficiencies that"},{"t":2901,"text":"could get us there or through the chair? Certainly not."},{"t":2904,"text":"We need some ambitious changes to the trans system. Um,"},{"t":2908,"text":"there is no other example of a city. The size"},{"t":2910,"text":"of what Victoria will be in 25 years that has"},{"t":2913,"text":"achieved anywhere close to 15 percent. This is extremely ambitious"},{"t":2916,"text":"and requires a significant amount of investment. And really to"},{"t":2919,"text":"change the way we look at transit at all levels"},{"t":2921,"text":"of government within the region. Think of that. Two other"},{"t":2923,"text":"comments for me. One is looking at this map right"},{"t":2926,"text":"here. If there's this is just my own personal opinion"},{"t":2928,"text":"and commentary as someone who's on the various boards and"},{"t":2931,"text":"commissions is that I am finding it somewhat troubling that"},{"t":2935,"text":"we have what seems to be kind of parallel processes"},{"t":2938,"text":"going on around rapid transit. Right. We have this long"},{"t":2941,"text":"- term plan to put light rail or something like"},{"t":2944,"text":"rail on Highway 1, which is indicated here in red."},{"t":2947,"text":"But the line there in green is ENN line. And"},{"t":2950,"text":"the reconciliation corridor initiative is kind of come out of"},{"t":2953,"text":"nowhere. The feasibility study is underway right now. It'll be"},{"t":2956,"text":"ready in summer of next year. And we will have"},{"t":2959,"text":"a much clearer sense of the cost and implications of"},{"t":2962,"text":"potentially returning passenger rail from Vic West to Lanfort Station."},{"t":2966,"text":"If you look at the map, the two lines more"},{"t":2969,"text":"or less start and end in the same place. I"},{"t":2970,"text":"mean, they obviously don't both go through Sanich. For me,"},{"t":2975,"text":"and again, I'm always happy to have my mind changed."},{"t":2977,"text":"But for me, it seems wildly improbable that we would"},{"t":2980,"text":"have the funding as a regional government and thinking about"},{"t":2984,"text":"maybe investments in the province and the feds to invest"},{"t":2988,"text":"in two rail lines that start and stop in the"},{"t":2991,"text":"same place. So I, I would like to get a"},{"t":2993,"text":"better sense of how transit is conceptualizing the reconciliation corridor"},{"t":2999,"text":"initiative, what you're doing with that information. What happens if"},{"t":3001,"text":"in 2027 next year, the feasibility report comes back and"},{"t":3006,"text":"it looks viable. And it's, let's say one quarter of"},{"t":3008,"text":"the cost of putting light rail on highway one, then"},{"t":3010,"text":"what? How does that affect our big moves. Uh, through"},{"t":3015,"text":"the chair, um, that's a great question. And I know"},{"t":3018,"text":"the discussion on that. And just with regards to the"},{"t":3021,"text":"reconciliation, quote, initiative, the BC Transit is active participant. And"},{"t":3024,"text":"we requested to have a non - voting role with"},{"t":3026,"text":"regards to this, you know, steering committee process and know"},{"t":3028,"text":"they're in the process of just updating that governance. Um,"},{"t":3031,"text":"I will say that as BC Transit representatives were in"},{"t":3033,"text":"the business of moving people as efficiently and effectively as"},{"t":3036,"text":"possible throughout the region. That is our goal. So as"},{"t":3039,"text":"far as, uh, you know, what is the best solution"},{"t":3042,"text":"we are in many ways from a transportation or trans"},{"t":3045,"text":"prospective solution agnostic in a way. So if there comes"},{"t":3048,"text":"with regards to feedback and reports, you know, the best"},{"t":3051,"text":"decision and best investment for the region to again, move"},{"t":3053,"text":"people as efficiently as effectively as possible is a particular"},{"t":3056,"text":"corridor. Then we would adapt our network as required. And"},{"t":3060,"text":"just noting to, though, there are many other major infrastructure"},{"t":3062,"text":"projects, whether it be the ENN or proposed higher order"},{"t":3065,"text":"transit on Douglas to weather even the proposed new sandwich"},{"t":3069,"text":"transit centre, which is our third facility to accommodate more"},{"t":3071,"text":"buses. So I think those are a very, very important"},{"t":3073,"text":"discussion topics. And I think that those are some of"},{"t":3076,"text":"the discussions that we're having on an ongoing basis with"},{"t":3078,"text":"this CRD staff, as well as the provincial staff and"},{"t":3081,"text":"local government staff with regards to prioritizing. But as Levi"},{"t":3084,"text":"alluded to it, I think that while we're designing this"},{"t":3086,"text":"plan, we do have to provide some level of nimbleness"},{"t":3090,"text":"and flexibility with us. Because there are all these other"},{"t":3092,"text":"ongoing discussions happening. So we are preparing this plan in"},{"t":3096,"text":"the sense that it's not going to just be done"},{"t":3098,"text":"and sit on a shelf. And that's it. The intention"},{"t":3100,"text":"with this plan is to be done and to be"},{"t":3102,"text":"revisiting in an ongoing basis. And if you need to"},{"t":3104,"text":"pivot in a certain direction, then we'll certainly support all"},{"t":3107,"text":"of the partners in the region to do so. Thanks."},{"t":3109,"text":"And through the mayor. And on that point, I'm speaking"},{"t":3112,"text":"in hypotheticals here, but I don't think it's an outrageous"},{"t":3114,"text":"hypothetical that next year the feasibility report comes back. It"},{"t":3118,"text":"looks feasible. There's some juice. There's some support for it."},{"t":3122,"text":"And all of a sudden the plan on highway one"},{"t":3124,"text":"is looking questionable. Is that a moment in which transit"},{"t":3128,"text":"contemplates pivoting towards a long - term light rail plan"},{"t":3132,"text":"for PAT bay highway up to Swords Bay and YYJ?"},{"t":3135,"text":"And we just forget about how it won. Through the"},{"t":3137,"text":"chair, I think it's perhaps premature to make that sort"},{"t":3140,"text":"of diagnosis at this stage. I will say that based"},{"t":3142,"text":"on ridership performance, the highway want the Douglas Highway 1"},{"t":3145,"text":"corridor still our highest ridership corridor. And even with the"},{"t":3149,"text":"introduction of a potential ENN service, you still have some"},{"t":3152,"text":"fairly significant key activity centres that are along Douglas and"},{"t":3156,"text":"Highway 1, be it Mayfair uptown or the hospital. And"},{"t":3160,"text":"looking at density plans along that corridor as well, you're"},{"t":3162,"text":"going to see continued growth. So I think that that"},{"t":3164,"text":"corridor will always be an important transit investment moving forward."},{"t":3168,"text":"Okay. Last question for me. After you guys came to"},{"t":3170,"text":"the CRD Transportation Committee yesterday, and I think after you'd"},{"t":3173,"text":"left, there was a council member motion from councillor slash"},{"t":3177,"text":"director Thompson and myself to have the CRD as part"},{"t":3180,"text":"of the Transportation Plan get more actively involved in signalization"},{"t":3185,"text":"and coordination of our system so that buses can move"},{"t":3188,"text":"more efficiently through our system. And the lot of advocacy"},{"t":3190,"text":"work from the local transportation advocacy groups on this question."},{"t":3193,"text":"I just want to give you guys an opportunity to"},{"t":3195,"text":"talk about what your role is as transit. What is"},{"t":3199,"text":"your relationship like with all the various local governments in"},{"t":3201,"text":"which we operate to ensure that there is maximum efficiency"},{"t":3205,"text":"and that the increasing prioritization for our fleet. Yeah, it's"},{"t":3210,"text":"a great question through the chair. I do want to"},{"t":3212,"text":"acknowledge some of the additional work that BC Transit is"},{"t":3214,"text":"doing behind the scenes and some directions that PC Transit"},{"t":3217,"text":"is currently pivoting towards in the coming next couple of"},{"t":3221,"text":"years. So first of all, we're in the process of"},{"t":3223,"text":"completing a bus speed and reliability project for the Victoria"},{"t":3226,"text":"region. That's really looking to quantify where the biggest impacts"},{"t":3230,"text":"are from delay and congestion, both for buses and for"},{"t":3234,"text":"passengers. Um, across the region. Um, further, we'll be looking"},{"t":3238,"text":"to update the rapid transit implementation strategy. So we did"},{"t":3242,"text":"the original rapid bus implementation strategy in 2021. Um, so"},{"t":3246,"text":"looking at opportunities to move things forward, consider other things"},{"t":3249,"text":"like, um, boarding, um, off board Fair payment collection technology"},{"t":3255,"text":"considering things like, uh, Transit Signal priority, um, and so"},{"t":3259,"text":"I think that rapid bus implementation strategy will help BC"},{"t":3262,"text":"Transit develop a bit of a roadmap for continuing to"},{"t":3265,"text":"move forward on those. And I think we've, we've engaged"},{"t":3268,"text":"very closely with municipal staff across the whole region. And"},{"t":3272,"text":"I think everyone's becoming aware of the magnitude of the"},{"t":3274,"text":"challenge to transit in terms of like degrading service. And"},{"t":3278,"text":"I think that a lot of this is coming from"},{"t":3280,"text":"the discussions we've had as part of this planning process,"},{"t":3282,"text":"which is fantastic. Um, so we're looking forward to continuing"},{"t":3284,"text":"to work with, uh, our municipal staff, uh, the CRD"},{"t":3289,"text":"to explore opportunities in the future to move buses more"},{"t":3293,"text":"reliably and quickly throughout the system. Thanks. Thanks, Ireneer. Councillor"},{"t":3297,"text":"Thompson. Thanks, Mayor. And through you, thanks very much for"},{"t":3301,"text":"the presentation. It's good to see it a second time."},{"t":3304,"text":"Um, and, uh, also thanks to Councillor Hammond for asking"},{"t":3308,"text":"most of my questions, uh, I might go a little"},{"t":3310,"text":"further on some of them. Um, and, uh, can stands"},{"t":3314,"text":"for cooperative auto network, by the way. And I do"},{"t":3317,"text":"recommend people have a look at, uh, at those cars"},{"t":3320,"text":"sharing opportunities we've got here. Uh, so we've talked a"},{"t":3324,"text":"lot about the funding. I'll ask a little bit more."},{"t":3326,"text":"We didn't get the expansion funding this year. Hopefully that"},{"t":3329,"text":"will resume in future years. Um, you mentioned advocacy and"},{"t":3333,"text":"the role for local governments in that. I'm very, I'm"},{"t":3336,"text":"sure we're all very happy to help out with that."},{"t":3339,"text":"Um, and I should just mention in regard to that"},{"t":3343,"text":"generally, um, I would hope that the provincial government would"},{"t":3347,"text":"see this as something that's popular, that's a vote getter"},{"t":3350,"text":"because I talked to members of the public at doors"},{"t":3354,"text":"at events, uh, on the phone, on email, uh, coffee"},{"t":3357,"text":"chats and a lot more. And everybody says we need"},{"t":3360,"text":"more transit, better transit. On every other issue that we"},{"t":3365,"text":"discuss as a council, there's a range of views from,"},{"t":3369,"text":"I hate it to, I love it. And everything else"},{"t":3370,"text":"in between. But on transit, it is unanimous. People want"},{"t":3374,"text":"more transits. So hope the province is listening to that."},{"t":3377,"text":"Um, when it comes to just one specific piece, uh,"},{"t":3382,"text":"that needs funding, I want to talk about the Douglas"},{"t":3384,"text":"Street corridor. Uh, so that's going to be a big,"},{"t":3388,"text":"uh, change here. Uh, I moved and Council approved a"},{"t":3392,"text":"motion to have 24 7 bus lanes, uh, north of"},{"t":3397,"text":"Herald up to hillside. And that's been implemented. But the"},{"t":3400,"text":"tougher, much tougher part is, uh, south of Harold, which"},{"t":3404,"text":"is going to take a lot of, uh, engineering work"},{"t":3406,"text":"and careful design and then some infrastructure changes. Um, can"},{"t":3412,"text":"you tell us how, uh, the funding has worked in"},{"t":3416,"text":"other communities, not Victoria, but other communities on projects that,"},{"t":3421,"text":"that, you know, deliver, um, transit priority. Like has it"},{"t":3426,"text":"been, has it been funded by the municipalities or has"},{"t":3429,"text":"it been funded by BC Transit Transit. Matt or Levi,"},{"t":3435,"text":"which one? Should I can start through the chair. I"},{"t":3438,"text":"think it largely depends on the circumstances of the project"},{"t":3441,"text":"and the funding levers that are currently available from a"},{"t":3444,"text":"provincial and federal perspective. So for this particular project with"},{"t":3447,"text":"regards to Douglas Street, I don't know the exact details"},{"t":3449,"text":"with regards to the funding agreement off the top of"},{"t":3451,"text":"my head, but I do know that we're working very"},{"t":3453,"text":"collaboratively with the City Victoria with regards to the current"},{"t":3456,"text":"design of that project. And as far as the final"},{"t":3458,"text":"funding question, we can certainly get back to you with"},{"t":3460,"text":"those details through city staff. Okay. Um, and, and other,"},{"t":3467,"text":"do we have some other pieces of that rapid transit"},{"t":3472,"text":"corridor that we can look at and say, okay, this"},{"t":3474,"text":"was funded in that way. Do we have a sense"},{"t":3476,"text":"of how the different pieces are funded outside of Victoria."},{"t":3480,"text":"Uh, through the chair. Yeah. The province usually makes a"},{"t":3484,"text":"contribution with regards to investments for transit infrastructure. The example"},{"t":3487,"text":"would be obviously Highway 1 that's currently under construction and"},{"t":3490,"text":"set to launch in fall of 2027. So there certainly"},{"t":3493,"text":"are funding share opportunities that are out there to leverage,"},{"t":3498,"text":"um, provincial and federal funds that may be available with"},{"t":3502,"text":"regards to investing in transit. Okay. And is that like"},{"t":3506,"text":"in Sanich, those are you thinking of those ones? Or"},{"t":3510,"text":"are they certainly and I think through the chair is"},{"t":3513,"text":"that we have obviously trans systems across the province. And"},{"t":3515,"text":"I think that we have transit exchanges or transit priority"},{"t":3517,"text":"or transit facilities. And again, it's really, you know, case"},{"t":3520,"text":"by case in what the funding opportunities are. But largely,"},{"t":3522,"text":"um, with many of these projects, there's lots of cost"},{"t":3524,"text":"share opportunities from the province, which is what PC Transit"},{"t":3527,"text":"represents and the local municipality with regards to, um, investing"},{"t":3531,"text":"in the communities with transit infrastructure. And on the west"},{"t":3534,"text":"shore, the improvements that are made there is there any"},{"t":3536,"text":"municipal funding going into those. I mean, I'm talking about"},{"t":3540,"text":"the rapid transit corridor. Through the chair, um, I don't"},{"t":3544,"text":"know the intimate details of that project off my head."},{"t":3547,"text":"So I don't want to speak incorrectly to it, but"},{"t":3548,"text":"certainly I'll take a note of that and we can"},{"t":3550,"text":"follow up and provide that information to city staff with"},{"t":3553,"text":"regards to the current cost share agreement with regards to"},{"t":3555,"text":"the investments and transit priority in the West Shore. Okay."},{"t":3561,"text":"Um. Can we talk just a little bit more just"},{"t":3565,"text":"for the benefit of the public about Transit Priority Measures?"},{"t":3567,"text":"Cause I know that, um, Councillor Caradona averted to it."},{"t":3571,"text":"And it was discussed a little bit more at TRD."},{"t":3573,"text":"But I think it would be useful for, uh, City"},{"t":3575,"text":"of Victoria, uh, residents to know, uh, what those are."},{"t":3579,"text":"So these are, uh, if you could just describe them,"},{"t":3582,"text":"they're things like giving an advanced signal for buses, uh,"},{"t":3586,"text":"bus lanes. Are there any other details that people might"},{"t":3589,"text":"want to know about. Yeah, certainly through the chair. Um,"},{"t":3594,"text":"transit priority includes a diverse suite of potential treatments to"},{"t":3598,"text":"help speed buses through congested areas. So that could be"},{"t":3601,"text":"anything from a QUE jumper lane, which essentially gives space"},{"t":3604,"text":"approaching an intersection for a bus to get ahead of"},{"t":3607,"text":"traffic and in a lot of cases have signal priority"},{"t":3610,"text":"to move ahead of the flow of traffic before the"},{"t":3613,"text":"rest of the cars can go through. Um, to, uh,"},{"t":3616,"text":"dedicated transit lane, either along a segment of a corridor"},{"t":3619,"text":"or an entire corridor, um, to transit signal priority, which"},{"t":3623,"text":"we've been talking about, which essentially at any given intersection"},{"t":3627,"text":"would communicate with an approaching bus and allow, uh, either"},{"t":3631,"text":"to extend a green to allow the bus to clear"},{"t":3633,"text":"the intersection or perhaps truncate a red early to allow"},{"t":3637,"text":"the bus to move, move more quickly through the intersection."},{"t":3640,"text":"Um, so yeah, there's a number of different, uh, opportunities"},{"t":3643,"text":"to look at transit priority throughout the region. And we"},{"t":3646,"text":"really want to be looking at the best possible treatment."},{"t":3652,"text":"For a local context, depending on what the challenge is"},{"t":3656,"text":"and what road space there is and all those other"},{"t":3658,"text":"factors. Right. Okay. Let me see if I've got any"},{"t":3663,"text":"more here. Okay. No, that's, that's on my questions and"},{"t":3668,"text":"for comments for now. Thanks. Very good. Councillor Kim. Through"},{"t":3676,"text":"the chair. Thank you. Good morning. Hi. Uh. You've discussed"},{"t":3681,"text":"some of the challenges that you're facing. Um, particularly on"},{"t":3686,"text":"funding. What else are you facing as challenges that are"},{"t":3689,"text":"unique to the work you're doing here versus transit in"},{"t":3693,"text":"other municipalities across BCR Canada? What's unique here. I'll"},{"t":3703,"text":"start. Through the chair, what makes the Victoria region particularly"},{"t":3709,"text":"unique is I would say two things. The first thing"},{"t":3711,"text":"is that there are many different municipal boundaries. 13. And"},{"t":3717,"text":"as well as First Nations communities, lots of key stakeholders."},{"t":3721,"text":"So designing a transit network where we have municipalities that"},{"t":3725,"text":"all have their own priorities. Is a challenge. But at"},{"t":3728,"text":"the same time, it's also an opportunity, right? Depending on"},{"t":3731,"text":"the lens that you want to view it from. And"},{"t":3732,"text":"I think through this process and the importance of increased"},{"t":3735,"text":"collaboration to get understanding of what are the key priorities"},{"t":3737,"text":"for all the regional partners and how can we work"},{"t":3739,"text":"together to make those achievable? I would say the next,"},{"t":3742,"text":"you know, major challenge for this region is just the"},{"t":3744,"text":"geography of it. Whereas you find most transit systems across"},{"t":3748,"text":"Canada, the downtown Central Business District is largely related in"},{"t":3751,"text":"the middle. And then the development are, you know, rural"},{"t":3754,"text":"and suburban sort of fans out in a circular frame."},{"t":3758,"text":"Whereas in the Capitol Regional District, you have the central"},{"t":3761,"text":"business district on the southern point. You have the major"},{"t":3763,"text":"university on the other point. You have major development taking"},{"t":3767,"text":"place on another side of the region. And then you"},{"t":3770,"text":"throw in some bridges and some water and some, um,"},{"t":3773,"text":"you know, arterial roads that are, you know, not a"},{"t":3776,"text":"huge amount of them. And it just creates a challenge"},{"t":3777,"text":"with regards to how do we move people efficiently and"},{"t":3780,"text":"effectively. So I think that those are the key particular"},{"t":3783,"text":"challenges as part of this plan that again, require, you"},{"t":3786,"text":"know, and they sort of dovetail on top of each"},{"t":3788,"text":"other. Because if you want to get from, if you"},{"t":3790,"text":"want to take the Route 95 from downtown Victoria to"},{"t":3793,"text":"the West shore, you've got to go through six different"},{"t":3796,"text":"municipal boundaries. Districts as far as roadway perspective. And from"},{"t":3801,"text":"a customer, you have no idea what's taking place. But"},{"t":3803,"text":"from a, you know, from an agent of trying to"},{"t":3806,"text":"make changes and make these things better, that's just part"},{"t":3808,"text":"of the process with regards to how do we, how"},{"t":3811,"text":"do we work with all those partners to collaborate and"},{"t":3813,"text":"get together with a unified goal. And I'll hand over"},{"t":3816,"text":"to Levi in case he's got further. Do you find"},{"t":3819,"text":"that these two pieces you've raised that are unique to"},{"t":3822,"text":"our context give you a different angle with which to"},{"t":3826,"text":"approach federal and provincial funding. Through the chair, I think"},{"t":3832,"text":"that my observation of federal funding and provincial funding, um,"},{"t":3837,"text":"where it is most successfully yielded is when all partners"},{"t":3842,"text":"within a region show a unified goal of what they"},{"t":3845,"text":"want. And I think that that's where the message and"},{"t":3849,"text":"the story becomes really, really important. And I think that"},{"t":3852,"text":"as part of this work, you know, I've used that"},{"t":3853,"text":"word story a few times now. Is it ultimately the"},{"t":3856,"text":"audience for this plan is, you know, the customers, right?"},{"t":3859,"text":"Our riders and our local elected officials as well. But"},{"t":3861,"text":"it's also the audience with regards to telling the story"},{"t":3863,"text":"of potential funding opportunities, uh, beyond what we have control"},{"t":3867,"text":"of today. So I think that, uh, and certainly the"},{"t":3870,"text":"CRD's regional transportation plan plays a big role in that"},{"t":3873,"text":"as well, uh, with regards to reconciling all of these"},{"t":3876,"text":"challenges and turning them into a story that creates opportunities"},{"t":3879,"text":"with regrets to how do we solve these challenges in"},{"t":3882,"text":"our region? Okay. Um, there's a number of sources from"},{"t":3887,"text":"which transit funding can come. Things like clean B C."},{"t":3894,"text":"A federal funds that are specifically for transit, all of"},{"t":3896,"text":"which have experienced dramatic reductions. Um, can you name any"},{"t":3901,"text":"other, like maybe not as publicly known sources that you"},{"t":3907,"text":"have experienced that shrinkage, um, so that we can be"},{"t":3910,"text":"more targeted in our advocacy for you. Oh, that's through"},{"t":3916,"text":"the chair. That's an excellent question. And again, I may"},{"t":3919,"text":"not, I'm cautious with regards to units too much detail"},{"t":3922,"text":"because I don't have the full details of that. But"},{"t":3923,"text":"I constantly report back to our teams that focus on"},{"t":3926,"text":"those things and get some information and share with you."},{"t":3928,"text":"Um, what I will say though is, you know, the"},{"t":3930,"text":"two key funding streams. There's the operating. So, you know,"},{"t":3933,"text":"the delivery of transit service. And that's where the province"},{"t":3936,"text":"governments cost share that. And then the capital projects. When"},{"t":3939,"text":"we're building these bus lanes or nutrients and facilities or"},{"t":3943,"text":"whatever may be. And that's where over the past several"},{"t":3945,"text":"years, we've really leveraged federal funding initiatives with regards to"},{"t":3950,"text":"making those investments. So as far as the current federal,"},{"t":3953,"text":"um, programs that are available, again, I apologise. I don't"},{"t":3956,"text":"have those details in front of me right now, but"},{"t":3958,"text":"certainly we can report back to City of Victoria staff"},{"t":3961,"text":"and they can share with Council of what's available. And"},{"t":3963,"text":"so that's a topic as well for the Victoria Regional"},{"t":3965,"text":"Transit Commission. If it does come up that we can"},{"t":3968,"text":"share again, significant details with regards to opportunities there. Part"},{"t":3972,"text":"of the reason I ask that question is because I'm"},{"t":3973,"text":"trying to encourage you to use us more effectively. Um,"},{"t":3977,"text":"uh, this is a bit of a personal question, but"},{"t":3980,"text":"is there a plan to address two bike racks per"},{"t":3985,"text":"bus given the insane bike ridership in Victoria. Uh, through"},{"t":3992,"text":"the chair, um, that has been a very, very common"},{"t":3994,"text":"question. Uh, Whistler in particular reaches out almost regularly because"},{"t":3997,"text":"obviously they have a very strong biculture for mountain bike"},{"t":3999,"text":"perspective. Um, based on my understanding of it right now"},{"t":4002,"text":"is that it's challenging to do with three bikes largely"},{"t":4004,"text":"because it starts to interfere with the headlights and the"},{"t":4007,"text":"visibility of the Transit driver. So at this stage, we"},{"t":4010,"text":"are not, um, pursuing it. But certainly again, we can"},{"t":4013,"text":"follow up again with city staff. I can, um, contact"},{"t":4016,"text":"our training and bus fleet procurement team with regards to"},{"t":4020,"text":"if they have any updates. Cause I know that we"},{"t":4021,"text":"have been testing it over the past couple of years"},{"t":4023,"text":"to see what's viable. Just to add to Matt's comments"},{"t":4026,"text":"there. I think one way we often see Transit Systems"},{"t":4030,"text":"carry more bikes is with a transition to higher order"},{"t":4032,"text":"transit, whether that be light rail or, um, Traclis Trams."},{"t":4037,"text":"It just creates more space on board to more easily"},{"t":4039,"text":"and safely accommodate biking facilities. So I think once again"},{"t":4042,"text":"within the context of this plan, we have higher order"},{"t":4045,"text":"transit as a priority within the next 25 years. And"},{"t":4048,"text":"I think that'll help with the movement, uh, an integration"},{"t":4050,"text":"of multimodal travel. Um, even if we can't find a"},{"t":4053,"text":"solution in the interim on buses that is safe and"},{"t":4056,"text":"effective in the meantime. So. Thank you. I realise I"},{"t":4060,"text":"saved my hardest question for last. Um, and if you"},{"t":4063,"text":"feel like you can't answer it, I completely understand, but"},{"t":4067,"text":"there is, uh, talk in the news about a potential"},{"t":4071,"text":"strike of the drivers. How will, um, the relationship with"},{"t":4078,"text":"the drivers and staff, uh, impact, be it good or"},{"t":4083,"text":"bad what you've presented in front of us today. Through"},{"t":4087,"text":"the chair, yeah, as you noted, uniform local three, three,"},{"t":4090,"text":"three, which, um, represents 660 Transit operator, you just maintenance"},{"t":4095,"text":"staff in the Victorial Trans system have reached an impasse"},{"t":4098,"text":"with regards to their bargaining. And there is a strike"},{"t":4100,"text":"vote scheduled for today, which would be a mandate to"},{"t":4103,"text":"take a 72 hour strike. So just to recognise that"},{"t":4104,"text":"they're not voting to labour action today, they're voting to"},{"t":4108,"text":"have the ability to take a strike in the future."},{"t":4110,"text":"So just note that, uh, at this point at this"},{"t":4113,"text":"moment in time, though the trans operations continues as normal."},{"t":4116,"text":"And I think we have a strong relationship with the"},{"t":4118,"text":"operators and just note as part of our engagement for"},{"t":4120,"text":"this process. We spend a lot of time talking to"},{"t":4123,"text":"Transit Drivers as well with regards to their feedback on"},{"t":4125,"text":"how this plan goes. Um, and all I can say"},{"t":4127,"text":"this is the point is we're going to continue to"},{"t":4128,"text":"modern her the situation. We'll provide updates as the situation"},{"t":4131,"text":"evolves. Thank you. I realise that that was actually my"},{"t":4136,"text":"penultimate question. My last question actually is, and it's one"},{"t":4138,"text":"I like to ask, um, what is something coming down"},{"t":4141,"text":"the pipes in about a decade or two that you"},{"t":4144,"text":"think local governments should be thinking of now. That's a"},{"t":4152,"text":"fantastic question. I think with, with this plan in particular,"},{"t":4157,"text":"there's a lot of like short - term opportunities. And"},{"t":4159,"text":"I would say, for example, like extending bus lanes down"},{"t":4162,"text":"Douglas, um, is a core next step. But we need"},{"t":4165,"text":"to look forward to that 25 year vision. And if"},{"t":4168,"text":"we're thinking about higher order transit, for example, like we,"},{"t":4172,"text":"we should be thinking ahead to that future while we're"},{"t":4174,"text":"planning for the short term actions as well. Like what's"},{"t":4176,"text":"the value proposition, not just tomorrow, but over 25 years,"},{"t":4181,"text":"um, Matt, anything to add? Yeah. I'll just add, I"},{"t":4183,"text":"was at a workshop last week at, uh, Deloitte is"},{"t":4186,"text":"a Transportation Summit. And a key theme that I walked"},{"t":4189,"text":"away with, was regarding CURB space. And the demand for"},{"t":4193,"text":"curve space. And I say that in particular, for anyone"},{"t":4195,"text":"who's travelled to San Francisco or Austin recently in the"},{"t":4198,"text":"sense of Waymo, these autonomous sort of taxis or robotaxis"},{"t":4202,"text":"as well seem to be on the precipice of spreading"},{"t":4205,"text":"or being introduced in other cities in Canada. So that's"},{"t":4208,"text":"just something as these new technologies are potentially introduced, again,"},{"t":4213,"text":"based on policy direction from the province and local governments"},{"t":4216,"text":"is that we only have so much curb space. And"},{"t":4218,"text":"how do we use that curb space? So I think"},{"t":4220,"text":"that's something important for all of our local governments to"},{"t":4222,"text":"just consider. Uh, and just recognising too that the end"},{"t":4224,"text":"of the day, public transit, uh, if I'm, I work"},{"t":4227,"text":"for piece of trans. So I'm going to advocate for"},{"t":4228,"text":"it is that our bus stops are really, really important."},{"t":4231,"text":"And I think that we remain the most efficient way"},{"t":4233,"text":"to move people in large volumes across the region. So"},{"t":4237,"text":"if I were to offer advice for council for the"},{"t":4238,"text":"next 10 years is just be mindful with regards to"},{"t":4240,"text":"the demand for curb spaces. Cause it's probably going to"},{"t":4242,"text":"continue to go up because there's so much, uh, different"},{"t":4245,"text":"competing interests for it. Thank you so much for that."},{"t":4248,"text":"Yep. That's it for me. Thanks. Ansell Coleman. Thank you."},{"t":4252,"text":"And through your worship, Matt, your opening comments. Thank you."},{"t":4256,"text":"Um, you said that Victoria is the heart and heartbeat"},{"t":4260,"text":"of the region. Please repeat often with great passion and"},{"t":4266,"text":"increasing volume. That would be helpful. Um, leave you referenced"},{"t":4272,"text":"the frequency issue and how some of the roots have"},{"t":4275,"text":"slowed down, which mitigates against. Increasing use. One of the"},{"t":4283,"text":"trends that we are going through as we're seeing increasing"},{"t":4285,"text":"density in the region, uh, we are going to carlite,"},{"t":4289,"text":"car free applications. And if curb space is an issue,"},{"t":4294,"text":"is that one of those black box issues going down"},{"t":4297,"text":"the road. Because not on the arterial routes, but particularly"},{"t":4300,"text":"in the neighbourhood roots, I think that there is a"},{"t":4303,"text":"slowing down of transit because of increasing. We've turned parking"},{"t":4309,"text":"into an externality that's showing up. Could you speak to"},{"t":4312,"text":"that, please? Levi. So through the chair, you've identified a"},{"t":4317,"text":"really critical challenge. I think for the transit system moving"},{"t":4320,"text":"forward. What I would say is, I think we need"},{"t":4325,"text":"to be strategic about where we look to prioritize Transit."},{"t":4329,"text":"For example, uh, where we're operating eight or more buses"},{"t":4335,"text":"per hour, for example. And we're carrying large numbers of"},{"t":4338,"text":"people is where we're going to see the most value"},{"t":4340,"text":"by investing in targeted interventions to speed, uh, transit and"},{"t":4344,"text":"improve reliability. And so I think it's really focusing on"},{"t":4346,"text":"those core frequent and rapid corridors and exploring opportunities to"},{"t":4350,"text":"move it more quickly and more reliably. And, and as"},{"t":4354,"text":"counsel, as you continue to make decisions on roadways and"},{"t":4357,"text":"decisions around CUB space, even though you're not directly making"},{"t":4360,"text":"decisions on transit, those decisions have such a big influence"},{"t":4363,"text":"on, on what we're able to accomplish for the transit"},{"t":4366,"text":"system. So I just encourage Council to just keep that"},{"t":4368,"text":"in mind as we continue to move forward into the"},{"t":4371,"text":"future. Thank you. And then a follow up on that"},{"t":4374,"text":"would be, you said there's been a, uh, a loss"},{"t":4379,"text":"in the frequency. Vectors. At the same time, we have"},{"t":4382,"text":"seen, what is it, a two percent increase in funding."},{"t":4385,"text":"So if we want to hit 2050, have we figured"},{"t":4391,"text":"out it's not just a static investment to get more"},{"t":4396,"text":"buses. It's actually an increasing investment over time. Have you"},{"t":4399,"text":"done any of the, uh, extrapolation of what that would"},{"t":4403,"text":"look like. Yeah. Great question. So through the chair, the"},{"t":4407,"text":"plan will indicate an investment trajectory and what a specific"},{"t":4411,"text":"capital projects are required to support the evolution of the"},{"t":4416,"text":"transit system to that ultimate goal over 25 years. Um,"},{"t":4420,"text":"it requires a significant increase in the pace of expansion"},{"t":4423,"text":"over the historical two percent average. And I think that's"},{"t":4426,"text":"really, once again, accounting for that one to one and"},{"t":4428,"text":"a half percent. Trend of slowing transit that we've seen"},{"t":4431,"text":"recently. So, um, although the plan is extremely ambitious and"},{"t":4436,"text":"really, uh, will require a change in how we approach"},{"t":4438,"text":"things. I will say if we're able to significantly decrease"},{"t":4442,"text":"the loss of speed in the transit system, we can"},{"t":4444,"text":"actually invest less potentially than what we're going to include"},{"t":4446,"text":"in the plan and still achieve the mode chair targets"},{"t":4450,"text":"for the region. Um, so I think it's just really"},{"t":4452,"text":"important that we continue to consider the speed and reliability"},{"t":4455,"text":"of transit because it has a significant impact on how"},{"t":4458,"text":"many resources we need to bring to bear to achieve"},{"t":4460,"text":"the visions for the region. Thank you very much. Councillor"},{"t":4465,"text":"Thompson, you had a second question. I do mayor. There's"},{"t":4469,"text":"been a lot of discussion of the need and recognition"},{"t":4472,"text":"of the need and of the funding required. It's kind"},{"t":4475,"text":"of like the elephant in a room that everybody is"},{"t":4477,"text":"actually looking at. And, uh, I am wondering, mayor, if"},{"t":4482,"text":"it's suitable to bring a motion arising based on a"},{"t":4485,"text":"presentation or is it normally, are they based on actual"},{"t":4489,"text":"decision motions that we have? It would be unusual to"},{"t":4492,"text":"have emotionalizing on a presentation, particularly from presentation from an"},{"t":4496,"text":"outside agency. It would be entirely appropriate for you to"},{"t":4499,"text":"propose something as a council member motion to a future"},{"t":4501,"text":"meeting. Okay. Thanks. I'll take that advice. Thank you. Not"},{"t":4505,"text":"so Dell. Hi guys. Thank you so much for the"},{"t":4509,"text":"presentation. That was awesome. Um, I'm a very frequent Transit"},{"t":4512,"text":"user myself and also go to the Vancouver. I'd love"},{"t":4515,"text":"the service to Vancouver and the airport and whatnot. Well,"},{"t":4518,"text":"the airport when it comes. But I also have a"},{"t":4519,"text":"13 year old, um, and so I've seen Transit recently"},{"t":4522,"text":"through the eyes of a 13 year old. That's a"},{"t":4525,"text":"Victoria resident. So I wanted to chat quickly. One of"},{"t":4529,"text":"the spaces I see for opportunity is getting that culture"},{"t":4532,"text":"of transit with young people. And obviously Victoria has done"},{"t":4535,"text":"a pretty good job with a youth Transit pass, but"},{"t":4537,"text":"I also see a ton of room of improvement. So"},{"t":4539,"text":"I'm going to admit something a bit controversial that I"},{"t":4542,"text":"haven't got my son to pass yet. Part of it"},{"t":4545,"text":"because he goes to school in Monterey, which is an"},{"t":4547,"text":"Oak Bay. And I actually didn't quite make the linkage"},{"t":4549,"text":"between his school and Victoria and he walks. But for"},{"t":4553,"text":"example, at Monterey, I haven't heard anything whatsoever from the"},{"t":4556,"text":"school about the youth TransitPass. Um, I have not seen"},{"t":4560,"text":"BC Transit promoting it also. My question is, are you"},{"t":4563,"text":"promoting this at all or is this totally up to"},{"t":4565,"text":"the City of Victoria? And what are you doing elsewhere"},{"t":4568,"text":"to get that kind of next cohort 13 to 18"},{"t":4571,"text":"on board? Cause actually by sending right now often doesn't"},{"t":4573,"text":"take the bus because he's worried he's going to get"},{"t":4575,"text":"asked for a pass. So he's, he'll often be stranded"},{"t":4577,"text":"somewhere. And I can imagine the lot of other youth"},{"t":4580,"text":"like him. I will get the pass. You guys are"},{"t":4583,"text":"reminding me of that. But what are you doing to"},{"t":4584,"text":"incentivize that next group of youth and I'll leave it"},{"t":4588,"text":"there. So through the chair, we do as part of"},{"t":4591,"text":"our marketing team have a youth outreach program. Um, I"},{"t":4595,"text":"think the challenge with that team is just the, you"},{"t":4597,"text":"know, there's thousands of schools across the province and really"},{"t":4599,"text":"just trying to manage the expectations with regards to, you"},{"t":4602,"text":"know, fulfilling that, uh, fulfilling that demand. I will say"},{"t":4605,"text":"that I have a 12 year old daughter who rolled"},{"t":4607,"text":"a bus for the first time on our own and"},{"t":4609,"text":"she transferred at Yuvik and got home. And I, the"},{"t":4611,"text":"smile on her face when she walked through the door."},{"t":4613,"text":"And I was terrified as a dad because as I'm"},{"t":4615,"text":"sure you've experienced as well, uh, but she's never been"},{"t":4617,"text":"more proud and confident. So I think it sort of"},{"t":4620,"text":"was an intimate realization for myself as well because I'm"},{"t":4623,"text":"only ever looking at the numbers. But the role that"},{"t":4626,"text":"Transit can play for our communities to not only move"},{"t":4629,"text":"young people around, but also to build confidence and autonomy."},{"t":4632,"text":"For them is really, really important. So I think that"},{"t":4634,"text":"we do, I think an okay job with regards to"},{"t":4637,"text":"communicating. But I think it's a huge opportunity and just"},{"t":4639,"text":"noting that the FairyUndred 12 is only a couple of"},{"t":4641,"text":"years old now. And I think we're still collecting data"},{"t":4643,"text":"and seeing all that ridership. But I think as far"},{"t":4645,"text":"as our strategic plan moving forward, I think the investments"},{"t":4649,"text":"with regards to communicating those programs is going to be"},{"t":4651,"text":"a key priority moving forward. Cause not only does a"},{"t":4653,"text":"grower transit ridership for students, but it also creates, uh,"},{"t":4657,"text":"lifelong transit riders, um, into the future. Okay. Thank you."},{"t":4661,"text":"And through the mayor, are you doing any advocacy to"},{"t":4663,"text":"other municipalities about the possibility of them just buying into"},{"t":4666,"text":"the program? One thing I find quite surprising is we"},{"t":4669,"text":"fund transit for youth. I think it's about 600, 000"},{"t":4672,"text":"dollars a year So for us, it's a 0. 3"},{"t":4674,"text":"percent tax increase Now that funds that permanently and I"},{"t":4678,"text":"just don't see that awareness that other municipalities that they"},{"t":4680,"text":"could just fund that particularly around the CRD with a"},{"t":4683,"text":"relatively small payment from everybody Do you guys do any"},{"t":4686,"text":"advocacy for that or talk about the benefits of that?"},{"t":4689,"text":"I know the group buy - in so that we"},{"t":4691,"text":"don't just pay for it. I have it to pass"},{"t":4693,"text":"is actually like a group discount, I believe I just"},{"t":4696,"text":"don't see that being advertised to other municipalities or BC"},{"t":4699,"text":"Transit talking about the benefits of that much at all."},{"t":4702,"text":"Yeah through the chair You may not see it sort"},{"t":4703,"text":"of in the public, but behind the scenes we have"},{"t":4705,"text":"a very robust fair and revenues team who is connecting"},{"t":4708,"text":"with local government partners as well as key institution like"},{"t":4711,"text":"secondary schools with regards to potential and you know developers"},{"t":4714,"text":"as well with regards to the eco - pass with"},{"t":4716,"text":"regards to opportunities for those type of programs and their"},{"t":4720,"text":"availability. Another question about my stunning stage a lot of"},{"t":4725,"text":"who are using them are using electric scooters now and"},{"t":4727,"text":"scooters It kind of brings up the question for my"},{"t":4729,"text":"colleague about bikes What's the plan with other electric scooters"},{"t":4733,"text":"allowed on the bus and what do those we do"},{"t":4734,"text":"for kids who might scoot somewhere that at night they"},{"t":4737,"text":"don't want it's too dark However, how are we kind"},{"t":4739,"text":"of... I just see a major mode shift with this"},{"t":4741,"text":"kind of younger generation A lot of them are actually"},{"t":4743,"text":"on e - bikes now as well and kind of"},{"t":4745,"text":"relying on that multi - use of transit for part"},{"t":4748,"text":"of it e - bike for next How are we"},{"t":4749,"text":"accommodating the scooters. Great question and through the chair I"},{"t":4753,"text":"think that our existing policy with regards to what you"},{"t":4755,"text":"can bring on board a bus as long as you"},{"t":4757,"text":"can carry it You're able to do so So I"},{"t":4759,"text":"think that you know I'm not up to speed exactly"},{"t":4761,"text":"because I know that electric scooter is coming varying shapes"},{"t":4763,"text":"and sizes But as long as they a person is"},{"t":4765,"text":"able to Carry that on board they are able to"},{"t":4768,"text":"do so With that being said I again I don't"},{"t":4771,"text":"know the intimate details of that policy Um, and I"},{"t":4773,"text":"will certainly follow up with city staff with regards to"},{"t":4775,"text":"the details because I think that's an interesting question that"},{"t":4777,"text":"I'd like to know the answer myself But I will"},{"t":4779,"text":"just as a final thought too is that that first"},{"t":4781,"text":"slot first mile last mile opportunities are growing increasingly throughout"},{"t":4786,"text":"the region and we're starting to see You know more"},{"t":4789,"text":"people with regards to electric bikes and electric scooters to"},{"t":4792,"text":"be able to get to that bus stop So I"},{"t":4793,"text":"think that the connectivity between these different modes is again"},{"t":4797,"text":"going to be a key theme moving forward for public"},{"t":4799,"text":"transit in the region. Okay, thank you last question Um,"},{"t":4803,"text":"who's responsible for cleaning bus stops? Where does transit's responsibility"},{"t":4807,"text":"begin and where does it end? Where does the city"},{"t":4809,"text":"take over? And I know only asking that because I"},{"t":4811,"text":"know you just had five of the busiest ones are"},{"t":4813,"text":"downtown Uh, and they're perfectly safe and wonderful bus stops"},{"t":4816,"text":"if they're but the people there You know with food"},{"t":4819,"text":"and garbage and whatnot And I think Klenis is important"},{"t":4821,"text":"Um, where does where does that responsibility life. Through the"},{"t":4824,"text":"chair Uh, right now the responsibility of bus stops is"},{"t":4828,"text":"ultimately the local government partner who is responsible for that"},{"t":4830,"text":"CURP space So BC Transit is responsible for the delivery"},{"t":4833,"text":"of service But ultimately the bus stop is owned and"},{"t":4837,"text":"maintained by the local government partner with some exceptions that"},{"t":4840,"text":"exist perhaps on land that is owned by BC Transitrat"},{"t":4843,"text":"or for ministry transportation infrastructure With that being said Uh,"},{"t":4847,"text":"Levi and are actually working on a strategy right now"},{"t":4848,"text":"with regards to bus stops And I think that sometimes"},{"t":4852,"text":"bus stops are forgotten as this sort of insignificant thing"},{"t":4855,"text":"in the trip But if you really break down the"},{"t":4857,"text":"customer experience and the customer journey That bus stop experience"},{"t":4861,"text":"is in many ways the most important part of the"},{"t":4864,"text":"transit experience Particularly if it's the weather is inclement or"},{"t":4867,"text":"if the safety considerations as well So I think that"},{"t":4870,"text":"you know moving forward as part of this Victoria regional"},{"t":4872,"text":"Transit plan We will make some reference to bus stops"},{"t":4874,"text":"and how do we make those bus stops better I"},{"t":4877,"text":"know too that we've been working closely with City of"},{"t":4879,"text":"Victoria staff about Douglas Street in particular because we have"},{"t":4881,"text":"as we said thousands of riders every day have an"},{"t":4884,"text":"experience with regards to riding trans and those bus stops"},{"t":4887,"text":"And how can we make that better? Are we satisfied"},{"t":4889,"text":"with what we have today And if we're not then"},{"t":4891,"text":"what do we got to do together as a BC"},{"t":4893,"text":"Transit and a City Victoria to make that experience better"},{"t":4896,"text":"to encourage more transit ridership. Okay Thank you And I"},{"t":4899,"text":"just want to end by saying I think you guys"},{"t":4900,"text":"are doing a great job I've been riding Transit here"},{"t":4902,"text":"for 25 years and it's definitely better than ever The"},{"t":4905,"text":"Kinet Umo card is absolutely amazing The credit card piece"},{"t":4907,"text":"that I heard the other day is Fantastic So I"},{"t":4910,"text":"think things are definitely moving in the right direction So"},{"t":4911,"text":"thank you. Councillor Kim you had a subsequent question Yes,"},{"t":4916,"text":"thank you through the chair Um you mentioned the youth"},{"t":4919,"text":"outreach engagement Um by any chance was their work done"},{"t":4923,"text":"with the fellow out of Kingston, Ontario Who has a"},{"t":4927,"text":"really great youth bus engagement program. Through the chair I'm"},{"t":4931,"text":"not aware of that connection But I we can certainly"},{"t":4934,"text":"follow up and get more details And if you're able"},{"t":4936,"text":"to share more details of what that entails that would"},{"t":4938,"text":"be helpful for us as well Yeah And if you're"},{"t":4940,"text":"looking for our program currently It's called the bus ready"},{"t":4943,"text":"program You can find information about it online Okay Um"},{"t":4946,"text":"and then the second question is Um Can you remind"},{"t":4950,"text":"me what the policy is around PETS on buses and"},{"t":4952,"text":"why that is. Uh, so through the chair Um, once"},{"t":4959,"text":"again I think operational policy I don't have the exact"},{"t":4961,"text":"verbiage Um, but my understanding is that PET needs to"},{"t":4964,"text":"be in a contained Uh, uh, uh, cage of some"},{"t":4969,"text":"kind once again just to ensure safety and sort of"},{"t":4972,"text":"fit within a certain envelope to be carried safely or"},{"t":4976,"text":"to be a certified guide animal Um, and so that"},{"t":4979,"text":"is the current operational policy I know the thoughts and"},{"t":4984,"text":"discussions about the policy Uh, but that's the current policy"},{"t":4988,"text":"today Thanks I'm sure you know about New York subway"},{"t":4992,"text":"systems hilarious PET policy So that's partly why I ask,"},{"t":4995,"text":"okay Thanks, that's it Thank you very much. Anybody else."},{"t":5003,"text":"Well that took a lot longer than I expected I"},{"t":5005,"text":"will have to say, but I was really delighted to"},{"t":5007,"text":"hear that you in fact are going to as BC"},{"t":5008,"text":"Transit representatives endorse some amalgamation. To assist in all of"},{"t":5012,"text":"your work So that's a good headline for you I'm"},{"t":5014,"text":"happy to support that Yay. That's what I took from"},{"t":5020,"text":"your presentation That being said of course we do appreciate"},{"t":5025,"text":"the amount of time that you put into preparing for"},{"t":5027,"text":"today as well as all of the work that it"},{"t":5028,"text":"represents So thank you very much for coming And of"},{"t":5031,"text":"course we'll have many ways to keep in touch and"},{"t":5032,"text":"continue to work together over the next coming months and"},{"t":5034,"text":"years Thank you, thank you. Council I suspect that the"},{"t":5040,"text":"next item and infects the next item is after that"},{"t":5042,"text":"We'll take a significant amount of time So I'm going"},{"t":5044,"text":"to suggest that we take a break now since we've"},{"t":5046,"text":"been sitting for a little longer than we usually do"},{"t":5047,"text":"in the morning And that we come back here at"},{"t":5050,"text":"2042."},{"t":5070,"text":"Morning and welcome back to the City of Victoria's Victoria"},{"t":5073,"text":"City Council's Committee of the Whole meeting. We are now"},{"t":5076,"text":"on section G. These are two land use matters. The"},{"t":5079,"text":"first of which is G1. This is the rezoning application"},{"t":5082,"text":"and development permit with variances application for 517 and 533"},{"t":5086,"text":"Chatham Street and 530, 532 and 536 Herald Street. Staff,"},{"t":5093,"text":"would you like to give us a quick overview. Thank"},{"t":5096,"text":"you and good morning, Meroral to our members of Council."},{"t":5099,"text":"I'm Jim Handy acting assistant director at Development Services. And"},{"t":5103,"text":"as it says first time presenting a land use site"},{"t":5105,"text":"to Council, I'd like to introduce Jean - AC Octem,"},{"t":5109,"text":"our senior planner of urban design. And with that, I'll"},{"t":5111,"text":"hand the rinds over to Mr. PON. Welcome. Thank you"},{"t":5116,"text":"so much. Honour it to be working in City Building"},{"t":5119,"text":"and Public Service and this capacity alongside inspiring a support"},{"t":5123,"text":"of colleagues. Marion Council, the proposal before you today is"},{"t":5129,"text":"for a sick story mixed - use. Development in Old"},{"t":5133,"text":"Town. It includes 133 secure dental homes and ground floor"},{"t":5138,"text":"retail on Chatham Street. It also introduces a publicly accessible"},{"t":5143,"text":"pocket park plaza on Herald Street and two through block"},{"t":5147,"text":"pedestrian connections across the site. The proposal retains the existing"},{"t":5155,"text":"Heritage Designated Bigger Staff in Wilson buildings with no alterations"},{"t":5158,"text":"and no tenant displacement. A rezoning is required to apply"},{"t":5162,"text":"site - specific density parameters to support the proposed subdivision"},{"t":5166,"text":"and infill development. A concurrent development permit application addresses the"},{"t":5172,"text":"design considerations and include several variances to which I will"},{"t":5176,"text":"speak shortly. Briefly on the justice of authority under the"},{"t":5180,"text":"various sections of the local government Act Council has the"},{"t":5185,"text":"authority to consider rezoning to security housing agreement to consider"},{"t":5189,"text":"the development permit for a form and character and consider"},{"t":5191,"text":"the requested variances. As this rezoning is consistent with the"},{"t":5195,"text":"official community plan, and it is intended to permit residential"},{"t":5198,"text":"development, a public hearing is not permitted per the local"},{"t":5201,"text":"government Act. However, notice to nearby properties is still required"},{"t":5207,"text":"and prior to introductory readings per our land use procedures"},{"t":5210,"text":"by law. Decide to the through - block property between"},{"t":5215,"text":"Chatham and Herald Street. It sits at the transition between"},{"t":5218,"text":"Old Town and Chinatown to the south and Rach Bay"},{"t":5221,"text":"to the north. It is also located across Chatham Street"},{"t":5224,"text":"from the Future Capital Culture District. The site currently includes"},{"t":5228,"text":"two Heritage buildings, surface parking, and an existing commercial building"},{"t":5232,"text":"proposed for removal. A total of 23 trees were inventoryed"},{"t":5237,"text":"on and adjacent to the site, including five bylaw protected"},{"t":5240,"text":"trees on the subject lots, and seven municipal trees along"},{"t":5244,"text":"the frontages. There's also a great change of about three"},{"t":5247,"text":"metres from south to north. From a public ground standpoint,"},{"t":5255,"text":"offers a key through block connection, opportunity between Dragon Alley"},{"t":5258,"text":"and the evolving capital cultural district block. There are already"},{"t":5262,"text":"informal pedestrian desire alliance through the site. The proposal formalizes"},{"t":5266,"text":"these connections through publicly accessible walkways and open space. The"},{"t":5272,"text":"capital culture district block includes a five - story street"},{"t":5276,"text":"wall building and the 14 - Story Tower directly across"},{"t":5279,"text":"the site, as well as a publicly accessible mid -"},{"t":5282,"text":"block lane. A mid - blower crosswalk is also envisioned"},{"t":5286,"text":"to provide a pedestrian connection between the subject site and"},{"t":5289,"text":"the capital cultural district block. On Chatham Street, the property"},{"t":5293,"text":"front digits between 515 Chatham at 5 - 3 residential"},{"t":5297,"text":"building. The podium courtyard, also known as ironworks, and 555"},{"t":5302,"text":"Chatham Street, a 6 - story mixed use residential building"},{"t":5304,"text":"with loft style homes, some of which face the subject"},{"t":5307,"text":"property. The site includes two heritage designated buildings. The bigger"},{"t":5313,"text":"staff building and the Wilson building. Both I retained as"},{"t":5316,"text":"is with no architectural alterations proposed. As a result, there"},{"t":5319,"text":"is no heritage alteration permit associated with this application. These"},{"t":5325,"text":"buildings were originally built for commercial uses and now contain"},{"t":5328,"text":"rental housing, commercial, and LU work uses following adaptive reuse"},{"t":5332,"text":"and seismic upgrades works undertaken late 1990s and early 2000s."},{"t":5338,"text":"Because they're being retained, homes and no tenant displacement. The"},{"t":5343,"text":"proposed infill building is designed to remain separate from these"},{"t":5345,"text":"buildings, but to be compatible with the Heritage Context. The"},{"t":5353,"text":"site is within the downtown core as identified in the"},{"t":5355,"text":"official community plan. It is also subject to the Downtown"},{"t":5359,"text":"Core Development Permit Area 2, and the commercial heritage conservation"},{"t":5363,"text":"area one policies and design guidelines. Therefore, the proposal has"},{"t":5368,"text":"been assessed against the downtown core area plan, downtown core"},{"t":5371,"text":"design guidelines, and the Old Town Design Guidelines. Staff conclude"},{"t":5375,"text":"that the proposal is generally consistent with the applicable land"},{"t":5379,"text":"use policies by delivering rental housing, active commercial uses, uh,"},{"t":5384,"text":"and public realm improvements while responding to the Heritage Context."},{"t":5389,"text":"Arizoning is required because the applicant proposes subdivide the site"},{"t":5392,"text":"into three lots. Two of those lots will exceed the"},{"t":5396,"text":"standard density limits of the old town district one zone"},{"t":5400,"text":"standard of three FSR. The proposed overall site density is"},{"t":5405,"text":"3. 17 FSR with the North Lot at 3. 81"},{"t":5409,"text":"FSR and the Southeast slot at 3. 18 FSR. Staff"},{"t":5413,"text":"consider the supportable due to the proposals public benefits and"},{"t":5418,"text":"its alignment with the applicable policy and design guidelines. A"},{"t":5424,"text":"key public benefit associated with the proposal is the pocket"},{"t":5427,"text":"park plaza on Herald Street at approximately 687 square metres."},{"t":5432,"text":"It is designed as a visible and accessible public space."},{"t":5436,"text":"And as the Southern anchor of the sites through block"},{"t":5438,"text":"walkway connections. It includes seating, planting, lighting, and the flexible"},{"t":5444,"text":"spatial configuration with accessible connections across the grade change. City"},{"t":5449,"text":"- staff recommend that the owner build and maintain the"},{"t":5451,"text":"pocket park plaza is a privately owned public space. Its"},{"t":5454,"text":"provision, maintenance, and daytime public access are proposed to be"},{"t":5458,"text":"secured to a legal agreement. From an urban forest standpoint,"},{"t":5462,"text":"this space also contributes to greening of this part of"},{"t":5465,"text":"downtown through retained trees and substantial new planting. While some"},{"t":5469,"text":"removals are required to accommodate the development and frontage works,"},{"t":5473,"text":"the broader landscape plan includes 15 new on - site"},{"t":5478,"text":"trees, an additional municipal street trees on both Chatham and"},{"t":5481,"text":"Herald Street. From a usability and comfort perspective, the pocket"},{"t":5487,"text":"park is intended to be active, visible, and well -"},{"t":5490,"text":"used. This relies on the design qualities of the pocket"},{"t":5494,"text":"park plaza itself and the activities that encourages as a"},{"t":5497,"text":"local public outdoor amenity, uh, available to the public. This"},{"t":5502,"text":"is complemented by adjacent residential, live work and commercial entrances"},{"t":5506,"text":"and generous ground for glazing. Those that just help provide"},{"t":5510,"text":"animation and passive surveillance eyes on the park plaza and"},{"t":5514,"text":"walkways so that the pocket park plaza clearly reads as"},{"t":5518,"text":"I cared for and overlooked space. Another usability and conference"},{"t":5523,"text":"consideration is how the site access is controlled without underwinding"},{"t":5527,"text":"its function as a privately owned public space. Here, the"},{"t":5531,"text":"gates proposed are intended to open clear and unobstructed during"},{"t":5535,"text":"the day so that the pocket park plaza in the"},{"t":5538,"text":"walkways can read as natural extensions of the Herald Street"},{"t":5542,"text":"public PROM. This approach helps balance openness. Everyday usability and"},{"t":5547,"text":"site management in a way staff considered appropriate for this"},{"t":5551,"text":"type of privately - owned public space. The proposal also"},{"t":5556,"text":"includes two through block walkways connecting Herald and Chatham Street's"},{"t":5560,"text":"in alignment with similar and successful precedents found in Old"},{"t":5563,"text":"Town and supported by our city policies and design guidelines."},{"t":5567,"text":"The primary walkway aligns with the pocket park plaza and"},{"t":5570,"text":"provides a wider, more direct connection through the block. The"},{"t":5574,"text":"secondary walkway aligns with the existing Wilson Build in courtyard"},{"t":5579,"text":"and live work uses. Further walkways, the usability and comfort"},{"t":5584,"text":"relies primarily on - PSIPE design. Active edges integrated lighting,"},{"t":5589,"text":"clear sight lines, and the legible public path through the"},{"t":5592,"text":"site. Complimenting this site design approach, public access to both"},{"t":5598,"text":"walkways is proposed to be legally secured during the day"},{"t":5603,"text":"with restricted overnight access supported by gates. Designed to stay"},{"t":5606,"text":"open in a visually and physically unobstructed way during public"},{"t":5610,"text":"access hours. Further refinement of the design of these walkways"},{"t":5613,"text":"and gates and operational considerations is recommended as a condition"},{"t":5616,"text":"of permit issuance. The new infill building has six stories"},{"t":5621,"text":"and uses a base, middle, top composition with vertical articulation"},{"t":5626,"text":"to reduce perceived massing and broadly align its expression with"},{"t":5632,"text":"old towns - built fabric. Brick is used prominently on"},{"t":5637,"text":"the Chatham Street elevation and also at lower levels to"},{"t":5640,"text":"reinforce the pedestrian experience and respond to the old town"},{"t":5644,"text":"context. The proposal uses setbacks and careful placement of windows"},{"t":5650,"text":"and balconies to respond to neighbouring built form, including residential"},{"t":5653,"text":"uses. Step note that the current design reflects multiple design"},{"t":5659,"text":"iterations to improve livability. Additional refinement is recommended through permaditions"},{"t":5666,"text":"conditions, including further development of cladding and soffit materiality, any"},{"t":5670,"text":"minor adjustments to the physical configuration of the interfaces between"},{"t":5673,"text":"the proposed infill massing and the existing ones. The infield"},{"t":5679,"text":"building is organised around a central courtyard through which the"},{"t":5682,"text":"primary through block walkway runs. This supports daylight access natural"},{"t":5690,"text":"ventilation and dual aspect homes and creates the shared outdoor"},{"t":5693,"text":"space for residents. Staff recognised this as a positive livability"},{"t":5698,"text":"feature, uh, with sustainability benefits in alignment with the applicable"},{"t":5702,"text":"design guidelines. The courtyard is connected to a shared rooftop"},{"t":5706,"text":"outdoormanly space via elevators and exterior stairs and walkways. These"},{"t":5711,"text":"spaces are intended for the access and use of the"},{"t":5713,"text":"residents. The rooftop men of the area includes community building"},{"t":5717,"text":"and supporting amenities such as spaces for gathering, eating, and"},{"t":5720,"text":"play, as well as a PET relief area. The application"},{"t":5724,"text":"includes several variances and staff recommend support. The height increase"},{"t":5729,"text":"from 15 to 21. 1 metres is supported on the"},{"t":5732,"text":"basis of the proposals general alignment with our design guidelines."},{"t":5736,"text":"The public space being provided at grade and evolving, built"},{"t":5739,"text":"- form context across Chatham Street in the future capital"},{"t":5742,"text":"culture district, whose street wall building buildings at that location"},{"t":5748,"text":"are envisioned to be approximately 22. 5 metres in height."},{"t":5753,"text":"The family housing variants is modest and is supported by"},{"t":5757,"text":"a strong supply of two - bedroom homes, uh, and"},{"t":5760,"text":"secured rental tenure. Steph also recognised the applicant's efforts to"},{"t":5764,"text":"align the project's family housing offering with changes in city"},{"t":5767,"text":"policies and regulations that took place partway through the planning"},{"t":5770,"text":"process. The parking reduction is supported by a robust transportation"},{"t":5775,"text":"demand management package, including enhanced bike facilities, transit funding, um,"},{"t":5782,"text":"uh, incar share measures. Uh, the remaining variances are considered"},{"t":5787,"text":"supportable on the basis of site configuration connectivity and the"},{"t":5790,"text":"proposals integrated design approach. In conclusion, this proposal offers to"},{"t":5795,"text":"deliver secure advental housing street activating commercial uses and meaningful"},{"t":5800,"text":"public realm improvements while retaining heritage buildings and avoiding tenant"},{"t":5804,"text":"displacement. It also contributes to public alem greening through new"},{"t":5808,"text":"planting and the net increase in municipal street trees. Frontage"},{"t":5812,"text":"upgrades are also proposed on chaterman Herald Street's including ervaised"},{"t":5815,"text":"and realigned crosswalk on Herald Street connecting the site more"},{"t":5820,"text":"directly to Dragonaley. A key public benefit items, including the"},{"t":5825,"text":"pocket park plaza, walkways, rental tenure and mobility measures. I"},{"t":5829,"text":"recommend it to be secured through legal agreements. While the"},{"t":5833,"text":"project requires variances, staff consider them supportable. Staff therefore recommend"},{"t":5838,"text":"that Council support the rezoning and development permit with variances"},{"t":5841,"text":"subject to the conditions and legal agreements outlined in the"},{"t":5844,"text":"report. Um, this concludes the staff presentation. My colleague also,"},{"t":5851,"text":"uh, Crystal Steveno, our senior Heritage Planner, uh, is also"},{"t":5854,"text":"online. Should they any heritage related questions? And yeah, we're"},{"t":5859,"text":"looking forward to hearing your questions and support you and"},{"t":5862,"text":"their decision making. Thank you very much. Well done. We'll"},{"t":5865,"text":"start with questions. Questions. Or coordinator or Councillor Hammond. Thank"},{"t":5871,"text":"you and thank you for the presentation. Um, the proposal"},{"t":5875,"text":"before us is very interesting and you said it almost"},{"t":5878,"text":"fits into the Old Town District. And I've several questions,"},{"t":5881,"text":"most of which refer to comments or requests from tenants"},{"t":5885,"text":"and next door neighbours. So I understand from the schematics"},{"t":5890,"text":"that the neighbourhood falls, that it falls into is DRA."},{"t":5894,"text":"Is that correct? The downtown REST Association. But the drop"},{"t":5897,"text":"off 100 meteor community notice would be in both Burnside"},{"t":5901,"text":"Gorge and downtown Bres Association. Is that correct? Um, I"},{"t":5907,"text":"believe we would still be in downtown across the street"},{"t":5912,"text":"because, um, North Park is part of at least downtown"},{"t":5917,"text":"core area plan boundaries, uh, regarding like the community association"},{"t":5924,"text":"boundaries. We may want to double check that. But DRA"},{"t":5928,"text":"was the neighbourhood association with which the applicant engaged for"},{"t":5934,"text":"the CALUC. You know, I understand that. But my question"},{"t":5937,"text":"is how many, because I think it was right on"},{"t":5939,"text":"the boundary. I've seen just see little jog there along"},{"t":5942,"text":"the bottom. We have Chatham, which means it would take"},{"t":5944,"text":"you to burnside gorge. Uh, in your 100 metre drop."},{"t":5948,"text":"So that's really my question. I don't know how many"},{"t":5949,"text":"people live on that side. So in our, uh, information"},{"t":5953,"text":"package, I could have missed it. We had a thousand"},{"t":5956,"text":"pages to look through in the last couple of days"},{"t":5958,"text":"where I did. Was there any letter from the DRA"},{"t":5962,"text":"as to the, uh, report from the Catholic meeting. We"},{"t":5967,"text":"did not receive a letter from, from DRA. DRA. So"},{"t":5971,"text":"was there anything? So that's why I'm asking for how"},{"t":5973,"text":"many residents may have been north of there. Who, I"},{"t":5980,"text":"mean, I don't understand why there wasn't a letter. I"},{"t":5982,"text":"mean, I understand that the city wasn't responsible for creating"},{"t":5985,"text":"the letter. But I think that's very problematic given how"},{"t":5988,"text":"many letters we've gotten since in emails. So I really"},{"t":5992,"text":"like to know just how many residents were north of"},{"t":5996,"text":"that boundary because I think that would take in a"},{"t":5998,"text":"hundred metres. So that's a question that I think Jim"},{"t":6000,"text":"is trying to look into right now. Through you, Mayor,"},{"t":6004,"text":"yes. I'm just double checking. But, um, you know, with"},{"t":6006,"text":"a rezoning application, we would notify people within a hundred"},{"t":6009,"text":"metres of the application site. And, um, but that would"},{"t":6015,"text":"include the properties immediately to the north of the subject"},{"t":6020,"text":"site. But, um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure if"},{"t":6023,"text":"they're actually, um, any resident across the street. I think"},{"t":6027,"text":"it's mainly a question. Thank you. So we don't know"},{"t":6030,"text":"the answer to that question or do we? No. Okay."},{"t":6034,"text":"This comes up further in our next application. Okay. Um."},{"t":6039,"text":"And there was no, no report from the committee from"},{"t":6042,"text":"the DRA. I don't know why. Okay. So what is"},{"t":6045,"text":"the intended size of the units within it? Because we"},{"t":6047,"text":"had some comments on that and I didn't see it"},{"t":6049,"text":"in the report. Honour Octamer. The units"},{"t":6060,"text":"vary in size. Smaller offering of studio homes. A significant"},{"t":6066,"text":"offering of one bedroom homes. And an offering of two"},{"t":6069,"text":"bedroom and three bedroom homes. Regarding unit sizes, uh. I"},{"t":6077,"text":"can't list them offhand immediately divided, you know, kind of"},{"t":6082,"text":"listed by typology. But I can confirm that none of"},{"t":6086,"text":"them are below the unit, the minimum unit area established"},{"t":6094,"text":"in the applicable zoning bylaw. Can someone tell me the"},{"t":6097,"text":"minimum size units that are using this complex place? Through"},{"t":6101,"text":"the mayor, could you repeat that. I would like to"},{"t":6103,"text":"know the minimum size of a unit in this that"},{"t":6107,"text":"is in this complex proposed as proposed, please. Someone give"},{"t":6112,"text":"me the number. Feet or metres."},{"t":6123,"text":"Apologies, man. I just double checking on the data table."},{"t":6126,"text":"Yes, absolutely."},{"t":6146,"text":"I didn't. Find. It."},{"t":6168,"text":"Through the mayor, we might need a little bit more"},{"t":6170,"text":"time to clarify this. Should I ask another question? Yes."},{"t":6177,"text":"Councillor Garden, why don't you proceed with your questions and"},{"t":6179,"text":"we'll come back to that. Okay. Hang on. Just got"},{"t":6183,"text":"to make sure I colour it so I see it"},{"t":6184,"text":"later. How many units are accessible."},{"t":6199,"text":"Also through the mayor? We may need a bit more"},{"t":6201,"text":"time to confirm this. Why don't you ask a series"},{"t":6207,"text":"of questions. If they're in that nature of how much"},{"t":6209,"text":"of this, how big is that? And that way they"},{"t":6212,"text":"can try and find the answers to all of them"},{"t":6214,"text":"at the same time. Okay. You can't decide to the"},{"t":6217,"text":"units, yes. And the smallest, the accessibility, if the units"},{"t":6220,"text":"that are accessible, the height of the building to the"},{"t":6224,"text":"east on Chatham and the height of the building to"},{"t":6226,"text":"the west compared to the height of the structure being"},{"t":6228,"text":"proposed. That one you might have an answer to right"},{"t":6232,"text":"now, the height. Do you have that one? Uh, qualitatively,"},{"t":6237,"text":"um, we have the renderings showing the relative heights of"},{"t":6243,"text":"the proposed building in relation to the neighbouring buildings on"},{"t":6247,"text":"Chatham Street. It is, it is quite close to the,"},{"t":6252,"text":"to 555 Cham Street, the six story mixed used residential"},{"t":6258,"text":"building with Lot style homes. Uh, it is a little"},{"t":6261,"text":"bit taller than, uh, 515 Chatham Street, also known as"},{"t":6269,"text":"Ironworks. So I'm scrolling through the presentation to, there we"},{"t":6275,"text":"go. So. If this provides a qualitative clarification on it."},{"t":6283,"text":"Would you be able to provide the actual metre height."},{"t":6286,"text":"Of the proposed building. The proposed building is seeking 21."},{"t":6293,"text":"5 metres. Okay. Thank you. Councillor Garner, does that answer"},{"t":6297,"text":"your question about height. Well, that tells me the height"},{"t":6299,"text":"of one of them. What's the height of the other?"},{"t":6301,"text":"Are they existing. Do you know the height of the"},{"t":6305,"text":"existing adjacent building. Comparatively speaking? Not numerically. But, uh, we"},{"t":6314,"text":"can also look into that. Councillor Gurder, other questions? Well,"},{"t":6318,"text":"the height to the east and the one to the"},{"t":6319,"text":"west because those were the people who gave most comments."},{"t":6322,"text":"And now the distance between the proposed buildings and existing"},{"t":6325,"text":"neighbours, I understand on the east, it's very tight. It's"},{"t":6328,"text":"about just over three metres, is it not? And on"},{"t":6331,"text":"the west, it's different because you have the parking. Is"},{"t":6333,"text":"that true? Um, so, uh, in this, on this slide,"},{"t":6341,"text":"are the partial setbacks proposed are shown. Towards the east."},{"t":6350,"text":"So this is the, this is 555athom Street. Combined with"},{"t":6355,"text":"a, so the three metres between existing building and the"},{"t":6358,"text":"property line. And another close to about three metres. On"},{"t":6362,"text":"the other side is provided to get to a six"},{"t":6365,"text":"metre building separation. Uh, this is to the east. And"},{"t":6369,"text":"to the west, there is a three metre setback. This"},{"t":6373,"text":"is aligned with the podium CORTYART at the Ironworks building."},{"t":6385,"text":"Okay. Um. So I appreciate the study of horizontal angle"},{"t":6390,"text":"of daylight. That was interesting to read. However, the issue"},{"t":6393,"text":"of space between buildings is real. Um, and it seems"},{"t":6396,"text":"to be more of a problem from the letters we've"},{"t":6398,"text":"got since we don't have a catacriport. For those in"},{"t":6401,"text":"the neighbouring East residential building, which I believe is 555."},{"t":6405,"text":"So what will be the wall treatment which residents there"},{"t":6408,"text":"will see from the windows. When I reckon. Um, it"},{"t":6414,"text":"would be metal panel and cementitious cladding. And the applicant"},{"t":6419,"text":"has been, uh, working with staff to align the fenestration"},{"t":6424,"text":"and new balconies, um, not on this interface, but on"},{"t":6429,"text":"the other interfaces with existing buildings. So, um, if that"},{"t":6435,"text":"provides clarification through the mayor. Not quite. Will it be"},{"t":6438,"text":"the, you showed us three different types of cladding. Will"},{"t":6441,"text":"it be the black ones, the dark grey black. Is"},{"t":6445,"text":"that going to be the view from the windows of"},{"t":6446,"text":"the balconies across the windows across the correct. So we're"},{"t":6454,"text":"looking at that elevation slides. So it would be the"},{"t":6458,"text":"darker cladding material. So three feet away from their balconies"},{"t":6462,"text":"or the decks. They're going to have a black wall."},{"t":6465,"text":"Through the mayor through the Mayor six metres away. On"},{"t":6470,"text":"the, on the 555? Correct. But it's going to be"},{"t":6473,"text":"a solid block wall. Not the brick finish or anything"},{"t":6476,"text":"else, but the solid black wall. Not solid articulated still"},{"t":6483,"text":"through the mayor. Um, but, uh, correct. It's the darker"},{"t":6487,"text":"cladding. And as shown on the setback diagram here, uh,"},{"t":6493,"text":"six metres from, from the wall of the. But still"},{"t":6495,"text":"solid black wall for six stories. Um, yes. Yes. Okay."},{"t":6502,"text":"Mayor, I will have an amendment later. Okay. May. Thank"},{"t":6504,"text":"you. Uh, my comment being, of course, okay. We've had"},{"t":6514,"text":"comments on the pillars and the sidewalk area by the"},{"t":6515,"text":"main entrance of Chatham. Are there pillars for within the"},{"t":6518,"text":"sidewalk area on the entrance Adam. Through the mayor, um,"},{"t":6523,"text":"that was, uh, very early, uh, design proposition from, from"},{"t":6527,"text":"the applicant, uh, throughout the planning process, the pillars have"},{"t":6532,"text":"been removed from the site. So chat and frontage is"},{"t":6536,"text":"clear. Um, and supported by, um, a canopy rather than"},{"t":6543,"text":"pillars landing on the sidewalk space. Great. That's good to"},{"t":6546,"text":"hear. The property should be subdivided into three lots. Why"},{"t":6549,"text":"and which parts are going to be subdivided and for"},{"t":6551,"text":"what reason? On Rakin. Through the mayor, uh, so, uh,"},{"t":6561,"text":"now, uh, as shown on the, uh, subdivision diagram, subject"},{"t":6566,"text":"to approval officer, um, should counsel, uh, decide advance this"},{"t":6573,"text":"application. Um, so these are the three lots. Um, lot"},{"t":6579,"text":"number one, the northern Latlan chat on street. It is"},{"t":6582,"text":"for, uh, for the infil Mixed use building and the"},{"t":6586,"text":"two through block walkways, uh, and the Southern lots to"},{"t":6590,"text":"the southwest, it contains the pocket park plaza proposed and"},{"t":6593,"text":"the existing rigger staff building and the Southeast slot contains"},{"t":6599,"text":"the Wilson building and its existing CORTYART. The subdivision was"},{"t":6606,"text":"an applicant ask and from an urban design and land"},{"t":6615,"text":"use, uh, standpoint, uh, staff have been working around that"},{"t":6620,"text":"ask. So looking to, uh, and recommending the securing of"},{"t":6628,"text":"required SRWs, say for the pocket park plaza, uh, and"},{"t":6632,"text":"also, uh, the through block walkways through the site, going"},{"t":6637,"text":"through multiple lots. Are these you be rental or strata?"},{"t":6642,"text":"I still understand why it's being divided. Through the mayor,"},{"t":6648,"text":"um, the proposed infill building, uh, to be secure rental."},{"t":6653,"text":"Shirley? Secured rental. And the other two. The existing buildings,"},{"t":6661,"text":"um, bigger staff in Wilson buildings, uh, are operating as"},{"t":6666,"text":"rental buildings, uh, staff understanding is that they're not stratified."},{"t":6672,"text":"Okay. So I understand the reasons of division will remain"},{"t":6675,"text":"mental and perpetuing. Effectively, yes, through the mayor. So we"},{"t":6680,"text":"don't know why they're being divided. Through the mayor, um,"},{"t":6690,"text":"I mean, this might be a question that's best answered"},{"t":6692,"text":"by, by the applicant. Okay. To vary the height, the"},{"t":6697,"text":"roof line along Chatham and give relief to the residence"},{"t":6700,"text":"of the existing buildings to the east, perhaps the west"},{"t":6703,"text":"would not have five - story structure for those short"},{"t":6705,"text":"sections on either side, closest to the other buildings, give"},{"t":6710,"text":"even more of a varied roof line. Through the mayor,"},{"t":6717,"text":"sorry, could you please repeat the question. I believe Councillor"},{"t":6722,"text":"Gardner is asking your opinion on whether or not you"},{"t":6725,"text":"would have thought a lower structure would have less impact"},{"t":6731,"text":"on its neighbours. I'm also suggesting that if just the"},{"t":6737,"text":"two N's were lowered, we would have quite the objections"},{"t":6740,"text":"from the neighbours there, but also you might therefore fit"},{"t":6743,"text":"into the Old Town Zone standard of three instead of"},{"t":6746,"text":"the higher level. Through the mayor of staff explored, uh,"},{"t":6756,"text":"what, what approaches can be pursued with the massing with"},{"t":6759,"text":"the applicant. But, uh, you know, while advancing, uh, multiple"},{"t":6766,"text":"public policy objectives. And while being mindful of, um, the"},{"t":6770,"text":"applicants more practical considerations, um, the massing has, has stayed"},{"t":6778,"text":"throughout at six stories this way. Uh, but still to"},{"t":6783,"text":"improve the architectural expression of the building to put it"},{"t":6787,"text":"in better alignment with Old Town Design Guidelines, especially, you"},{"t":6792,"text":"know, the variation of the roof, roof profile, uh, which"},{"t":6796,"text":"should be visible in this rendering, uh, with an expressed"},{"t":6800,"text":"parapet at certain locations. Understand that there was concern to"},{"t":6805,"text":"vary the roof lines. And again, lowering the very ends"},{"t":6808,"text":"by story would also accomplish that. Wood lowering just those"},{"t":6812,"text":"two sections of the end take us down to the"},{"t":6816,"text":"zoning. That is appropriate for old town. Lockdown. Through the"},{"t":6823,"text":"mayor, um, it is hard for me to say, uh,"},{"t":6826,"text":"quantitatively, uh, right now, we would need to sit down"},{"t":6832,"text":"on calculated, uh, but it would lower the density ask"},{"t":6835,"text":"for the north parcel or for the proposed Northlot. Thank"},{"t":6839,"text":"you, Mr. After. And consider it I gather. Okay. The"},{"t":6841,"text":"gates to the midsight passages and courtyard must be gated,"},{"t":6845,"text":"no given, no question given the street disorder in our"},{"t":6848,"text":"city. What would be the opening time in closing time"},{"t":6851,"text":"and will tenants have a fob or lock code to"},{"t":6854,"text":"enter during lock hours or is that impacted at all."},{"t":6858,"text":"They're coming and going. To. Mayor, uh, the gates, um,"},{"t":6864,"text":"uh, regarding the opening times, um, you will notice in"},{"t":6870,"text":"our recommendation that this is something we're hoping to work"},{"t":6873,"text":"on with the applicant, uh, towards buy our introduction. Should"},{"t":6877,"text":"the council decide to advance this application towards the rezoning"},{"t":6884,"text":"and development permit. Regarding the times of operation, generally during"},{"t":6893,"text":"the planning process, daytime, was noted or dawned to Dusk"},{"t":6899,"text":"sometimes emotionally. But at the same time, staff are looking"},{"t":6906,"text":"to discuss with the applicant with the availability of the"},{"t":6910,"text":"public space as an amenity to the residents, uh, during"},{"t":6913,"text":"the day, uh, is possible, uh, the, uh, access to"},{"t":6919,"text":"existing, LU work units and commercial units, um, on, on"},{"t":6924,"text":"the site are possible. And also mobility connections. Throughout the"},{"t":6929,"text":"planning process, we heard from the applicant notionally, initially perhaps"},{"t":6935,"text":"eight to eight. But at the same time, uh, we"},{"t":6940,"text":"want to sit down. Should cancel advanced this application. And"},{"t":6946,"text":"discuss and confirm this for the three reasons I mentioned."},{"t":6952,"text":"Availability of the pocket park plaza and through Balkoa as"},{"t":6956,"text":"public realm amenities, uh, their potentials as mobility connections through"},{"t":6960,"text":"Old Town and also access to existing loop and commercial"},{"t":6964,"text":"units. That will be within the bounds of the gates."},{"t":6970,"text":"We'll turn on to have a Farber Lock code to"},{"t":6972,"text":"enter during long hours. Through the mayor, um, it is"},{"t":6977,"text":"understood that, yes, when the gates are in operation, uh,"},{"t":6981,"text":"the access would be restricted to, uh, to residents. This"},{"t":6984,"text":"is after hours. Thank you. Now, um, 536 and five,"},{"t":6991,"text":"three, two, which areled are part of the current assembled"},{"t":6995,"text":"spots. You said that correct was Heritage buildings. That is"},{"t":6999,"text":"correct. Thank you. So and they are currently have tenants."},{"t":7003,"text":"And tenants usually have certain rights and amenities. And there"},{"t":7007,"text":"are existing parking tenants who live in the heritage street"},{"t":7012,"text":"buildings. Will they be provided the same amenity they have"},{"t":7015,"text":"now. In other words, access to parking. Undon. Uh,"},{"t":7025,"text":"through, through you mayor, um. This is, I think, a"},{"t":7031,"text":"question best directed to, uh, to the applicant, um, rather"},{"t":7035,"text":"owner who operates the existing rental rental buildings. Yeah."},{"t":7045,"text":"Yes, Mr. Handy. Thank you through you mayor. I'm going"},{"t":7050,"text":"to circle back to some of the questions as well"},{"t":7054,"text":"here. But, um, so my understanding here, and Ms. Dogden"},{"t":7059,"text":"can jump in and correct me if I've got anything"},{"t":7061,"text":"wrong. But, um, the, from the correspondence we received, I"},{"t":7067,"text":"understand that tenants in some of the adjacent rental buildings"},{"t":7069,"text":"currently use the surface parking lot for parking. And, um,"},{"t":7074,"text":"there may be concerns about where they park in the"},{"t":7076,"text":"future. Um, so in this area of old town, um,"},{"t":7082,"text":"on, um, smaller lots. We typically do not require parking."},{"t":7087,"text":"Um, that's because of the heritage context in nature of"},{"t":7090,"text":"the area. And often it's impossible to provide parking. And"},{"t":7094,"text":"there was never any parking provided in this area, um,"},{"t":7096,"text":"given the heritage context. However, 70 plus parking stores being"},{"t":7105,"text":"provided in the new park head. We, what we don't"},{"t":7108,"text":"do is specify or manage who has access to those"},{"t":7111,"text":"parking stalls. So the parking stalls, um, may be available"},{"t":7117,"text":"just for the people who rental the building, renting the"},{"t":7119,"text":"building, or they could also become available for the neighbouring"},{"t":7124,"text":"properties that are in question here. So, but we, we,"},{"t":7127,"text":"that's not something that we normally participate in. I mean,"},{"t":7130,"text":"if it's a conversation, Council have a desire for us"},{"t":7133,"text":"to have, um, with the applicant. We can do that"},{"t":7136,"text":"and explore that further. Um, but that would be the"},{"t":7140,"text":"situation regarding parking. Um, just circling back to a couple"},{"t":7144,"text":"of other questions that were raised. The smallest unit sizes"},{"t":7152,"text":"and the building for residential units. I believe about 36"},{"t":7157,"text":"square metres, which are slightly larger than the minimum unit"},{"t":7161,"text":"size of 33 square metres. That the zoning barely requires."},{"t":7166,"text":"However, that's just a handful of the units. Most of"},{"t":7168,"text":"them kind of start off at about 44 square metres"},{"t":7172,"text":"in size. Um, we don't have information around accessible units"},{"t":7178,"text":"at this stage. That's normally something that is, um, dealt"},{"t":7181,"text":"with through the PC building chord through a building permit."},{"t":7183,"text":"So we don't have that information to share with council"},{"t":7187,"text":"at this stage. So sorry, that's an answer in a"},{"t":7189,"text":"few questions, David. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you."},{"t":7192,"text":"And so how many of these micro units of 36"},{"t":7194,"text":"square metres will it be? Mr. Hendy, do you know"},{"t":7199,"text":"that? Instructal? Uh, through UMS, sorry. I don't have the,"},{"t":7203,"text":"that exact count. We'd have to have another look at"},{"t":7206,"text":"that. I was just looking at the smallest unit size"},{"t":7209,"text":"specific to the question that was raised. Okay. One more"},{"t":7211,"text":"question, Mayor, before it gets moved and we have amendments."},{"t":7215,"text":"And that is, how many channels are in those heritage"},{"t":7218,"text":"buildings that, uh, have parking and was five, three, six"},{"t":7222,"text":"and five, three, two. How many tenants are there and"},{"t":7224,"text":"how many currently have parking. Uh, through the mayor, we"},{"t":7229,"text":"do not have that information. Cause I was a huge."},{"t":7232,"text":"I would just note actually that that information based on"},{"t":7234,"text":"Mr. Handy's earlier comments about how we are involved with"},{"t":7237,"text":"adjacent parking issues. I would not be material to this"},{"t":7240,"text":"consideration of this matter. Number 10 is a garden. Number"},{"t":7246,"text":"of tenets. No, not necessarily not in the adjacent buildings."},{"t":7250,"text":"Well, usually we look at tenants rates. So I'm very"},{"t":7252,"text":"surprised. That's it for questions. Okay. Councillor Hammond. Thanks Mayor."},{"t":7261,"text":"There's been a number of issues that have been raised"},{"t":7263,"text":"already. And I just want to ask about attachment K"},{"t":7268,"text":"in which there was the first letters from a couple,"},{"t":7273,"text":"uh, Marley and Angie. And that letter was brought about"},{"t":7279,"text":"or was sent to us on July 1st of 2025."},{"t":7284,"text":"I'm just wondering, would you know if there has been"},{"t":7287,"text":"any change that would appease their concerns from this letter,"},{"t":7293,"text":"uh, since that time. Structum. Through the mayor, um."},{"t":7306,"text":"Now, uh, scanning through their letter. So, uh, of the"},{"t":7311,"text":"issues that they, they listed regarding building placement, um, well,"},{"t":7318,"text":"the developer or the applicant has worked with staff to"},{"t":7322,"text":"better align to fine tune their, um, the adjacencies or"},{"t":7330,"text":"the relationship of the proposed building in relation to the"},{"t":7335,"text":"existing ones through the planning process. Uh, so, uh, you"},{"t":7340,"text":"know, that's six metre from wall of five, five, five,"},{"t":7345,"text":"Chatham, um, to the wall of, uh, to the west"},{"t":7348,"text":"or the east elevation of the proposed building came out,"},{"t":7353,"text":"uh, happened during that process. Um, as an example. Regarding"},{"t":7358,"text":"building appearance, um, that has also significantly changed from the"},{"t":7362,"text":"time of the, uh, CALUC and the Rezoning application submission"},{"t":7368,"text":"to better align with Old Town Design guidelines. The previous"},{"t":7373,"text":"expression was in comparison a bit more monolithic and repetitive."},{"t":7378,"text":"And it had those pillars that Councillor Gardner mentioned earlier."},{"t":7384,"text":"Uh, so that has also changed significantly through the planning"},{"t":7389,"text":"process through multiple iterations as applicants work with staff. Regarding"},{"t":7397,"text":"safety, um. Uh, again, as an operational, consideration, uh,"},{"t":7407,"text":"for the applicant and also, uh, quality of public ground"},{"t":7412,"text":"consideration on our end, we staff worked with the applicant"},{"t":7418,"text":"iteratively, uh, to see how, um, the pocket park plaza"},{"t":7424,"text":"and the true block walkways, uh, can work successfully. So"},{"t":7428,"text":"the alignment, uh, the configuration, the walk of the walkways,"},{"t":7433,"text":"uh, the design of the gates, um, the operational assumptions"},{"t":7439,"text":"around the gates. We're all developed to this point through"},{"t":7444,"text":"multiple iterations of staff working with the applicant to speak"},{"t":7447,"text":"to the safety or the usability and comfort concerns that"},{"t":7455,"text":"derivate. So staff opinion at a high level would be"},{"t":7459,"text":"that, uh, that concern is addressed. Okay. On this one,"},{"t":7465,"text":"is it the case, unless I'm getting mine mixed up,"},{"t":7469,"text":"where they're building the main entrance to their building is"},{"t":7472,"text":"that on the right actually goes into the park, is"},{"t":7475,"text":"that the idea. Uh, so, uh, the pocket park plaza"},{"t":7479,"text":"is towards Herald Street. And one moment. Maybe on this"},{"t":7486,"text":"diagram. So the lobby of the building is on Chatham"},{"t":7490,"text":"Street. Actually, right next to the main through block opening."},{"t":7498,"text":"You see the, you know, swings of the gates with"},{"t":7500,"text":"the blue line. So immediately to the, um, east of"},{"t":7504,"text":"it or to the right - hand side of it."},{"t":7507,"text":"Are the doors providing access to the building. Okay. So"},{"t":7513,"text":"when, when they say that they're building, um, they're building"},{"t":7518,"text":"it 53. Two herald. Through the mayor, uh, right, 532"},{"t":7527,"text":"Herald would be, uh, would be bigger staff building. So,"},{"t":7531,"text":"uh, one to the, to the South, Franting Herald Street"},{"t":7535,"text":"here, um, you're seeing, uh, it's immediately next to the"},{"t":7539,"text":"pocket park plaza. Its access is through the pocket park."},{"t":7542,"text":"It's accesses through still on that west elevation. You would"},{"t":7549,"text":"walk through a surface parking lot with two rows of"},{"t":7552,"text":"trees, uh, that is the location to be proposed to"},{"t":7555,"text":"be, become the pocket park plaza. So yes, so the"},{"t":7559,"text":"access would be through there, maybe more directly from Harold"},{"t":7564,"text":"Street. And then, um, and then turn, turn right to"},{"t":7567,"text":"get to the door. Uh, so you'll see in the,"},{"t":7573,"text":"in the diagram there, there's a blue line. That is"},{"t":7576,"text":"the location of the gate. Since the blue line at"},{"t":7579,"text":"the bottom of the top. Right. The blue line would"},{"t":7582,"text":"be the location of the gate. That would again, at"},{"t":7585,"text":"the bottom of the top of this, to the bottom,"},{"t":7588,"text":"to the south. So on the Herald Street, there would"},{"t":7591,"text":"be the gate. Again, with an operable, um, operable portion"},{"t":7596,"text":"for after hours, access, uh, restricted to residence. So that's"},{"t":7600,"text":"how the residents at bigger staff building could get to"},{"t":7607,"text":"their units if they're approaching the site from Harold Street."},{"t":7610,"text":"Okay. Thanks. And I think the only other one I've"},{"t":7613,"text":"got is just to be clear, the gates are on"},{"t":7617,"text":"both sides of the street. Is that right? So it's"},{"t":7620,"text":"for the park and it's also for the throughway. Through"},{"t":7624,"text":"the mayor, correct. Uh, so, uh, fronting both Chatham and"},{"t":7629,"text":"Harrell streets, uh, would be the gates that would open"},{"t":7633,"text":"clear and unobstructed during public access hours. And they'd be"},{"t":7637,"text":"closed offering only restricted access after hours to residents. Okay."},{"t":7642,"text":"Thanks. Thanks, Mayor. Councillor Caradona. Sorry. Thanks very much, Mayor."},{"t":7649,"text":"All of my questions have been asked and answered. So"},{"t":7651,"text":"I'm ready to move the staff recommendation. Let me just"},{"t":7654,"text":"check and see if there were any other questions. Before"},{"t":7657,"text":"we go to motion. Not seeing any other questions. You"},{"t":7661,"text":"have questions or no questions. One second. Okay. Council Cardona."},{"t":7666,"text":"Go ahead. You'll move and I'll summon this second ding."},{"t":7670,"text":"Any comments, Council Herbert? Uh, yeah, I'll make a few"},{"t":7673,"text":"comments now. It sounds like there will be some amendments,"},{"t":7675,"text":"but I'll just motivate generally. I'm very happy to support"},{"t":7679,"text":"this proposal. I think it's a very tasteful project that"},{"t":7684,"text":"to my eyes really fits in with Old Town. And"},{"t":7686,"text":"I know it can be somewhat subjective and challenging to"},{"t":7690,"text":"come up with a modern building that fits in with"},{"t":7692,"text":"buildings that are 100 years old or more. It's not"},{"t":7695,"text":"easy to my mind. It really fits in very nicely"},{"t":7698,"text":"and complements what's around it. It will in the future"},{"t":7702,"text":"deliver 133 units of market rental. As always, it's my"},{"t":7706,"text":"hope that the proponent would consider our revitalization tax exemption"},{"t":7710,"text":"to think about freezing property taxes and exchange for 10"},{"t":7713,"text":"percent of the units being below market. I love, love,"},{"t":7716,"text":"love the pocket parks and the courtyard and the three"},{"t":7719,"text":"blocks. They're a really cool addition to the public sector"},{"t":7724,"text":"and the statutory rights away that are quasi public and"},{"t":7726,"text":"quasi private are, I think, a really great addition to"},{"t":7730,"text":"the city. I always think about the atrium as a"},{"t":7733,"text":"good example of that, where it functions kind of as"},{"t":7735,"text":"a public space and then SRW there, but at night"},{"t":7738,"text":"it's not open to the public. But during the day"},{"t":7740,"text":"it is. So I think it'll add to the public"},{"t":7742,"text":"realm downtown. I think that, uh, the shared EV for"},{"t":7746,"text":"that site is a very good idea. I like the"},{"t":7749,"text":"two and three bedrooms. I lament to a certain extent"},{"t":7751,"text":"that the percentage of three bedrooms is below. Our bylaw"},{"t":7757,"text":"and regulation state at eight percent but I do acknowledge"},{"t":7760,"text":"that this project was in stream when those regs came"},{"t":7763,"text":"about. So I'm willing to be a little bit flexible"},{"t":7765,"text":"there. I think that the six stories is the right"},{"t":7768,"text":"height there. Uh, the mixed use of course. We want"},{"t":7771,"text":"to absolutely have mixed use downtown to ensure that we"},{"t":7774,"text":"have street activation. So all of those things tick the"},{"t":7777,"text":"boxes for me, um, and, and most importantly, it doesn't"},{"t":7782,"text":"displace any tenants. And it also doesn't adversely affect heritage"},{"t":7786,"text":"assets. And in fact, I think one can make the"},{"t":7787,"text":"argument that it's complimenting those heritage assets by filling in"},{"t":7790,"text":"some of those empty spaces, not only with housing, but"},{"t":7793,"text":"also with some really nice public realm or quasi -"},{"t":7796,"text":"public realm improvements. So there's nothing about this project I"},{"t":7799,"text":"dislike. I think it's a fantastic treatment. And we'll add"},{"t":7803,"text":"vibrancy and housing and activation to Old Town. Thank you"},{"t":7809,"text":"Councillor Kim as a secondary. Thank you through the chair."},{"t":7812,"text":"I'd like to move an amendment. In section three sub"},{"t":7818,"text":"B sub two. Three. Sub B sub two. Okay. Yep."},{"t":7827,"text":"We got you. Yeah. Uh, it's your amendment. To strike"},{"t":7832,"text":"out provided that they remain open to the public during"},{"t":7836,"text":"the day. Okay. Let's just make sure that makes sense."},{"t":7844,"text":"And the way it was. I guess I've already. Used"},{"t":7848,"text":"it. Okay. Yep. That makes grammatical sense. Doing a second"},{"t":7851,"text":"down. It's essentially opening up the park for the day"},{"t":7857,"text":"for everyone. Also, okay. Councillor Dell is seconding that. The"},{"t":7862,"text":"great Councillor came on your amendment. Um, thanks. I continue"},{"t":7866,"text":"to stand on my little hill where I think that"},{"t":7870,"text":"space that we designate or try to designate is public"},{"t":7874,"text":"should indeed be public during as many hours of the"},{"t":7879,"text":"day as possible. But, um, beyond the principle of that,"},{"t":7883,"text":"this project borders, um, capital, oh my gosh, I'm blanking"},{"t":7888,"text":"on the Capital Arts District. And so we're planning activation"},{"t":7895,"text":"of that entire area. It's going to be a tourist"},{"t":7900,"text":"hotspot. I don't know why we're trying to impede mobility"},{"t":7905,"text":"through a space that we're anticipating a lot of activation"},{"t":7908,"text":"through, particularly if, um, the language itself. Provided in this"},{"t":7916,"text":"motion says, um. Facilitate mobility connections through the site. It"},{"t":7923,"text":"is just counterintuitive to me to, to block it off."},{"t":7927,"text":"Um, outside of the principle of maintaining openness to the"},{"t":7930,"text":"public. So I hope that that motivation helps, um, explain"},{"t":7933,"text":"where I'm coming from. Thank you, Councillor Dell. As the"},{"t":7936,"text":"Secondary to the amendment, any comments. Um, yeah, I'll just"},{"t":7941,"text":"probably listen to everyone else. I guess the question was,"},{"t":7944,"text":"is the intent to just, um, cause it's still, the"},{"t":7947,"text":"still allows gates. Yes. And so the gates, I mean,"},{"t":7952,"text":"it's intent to have it open all day long, like"},{"t":7954,"text":"24 hours. Are you asking me as the mover? Yeah."},{"t":7957,"text":"You know, I'm a bit confused about the timing. Like,"},{"t":7960,"text":"cause that the language, I understood what you said, but"},{"t":7962,"text":"I don't know if it reflects in there. So my"},{"t":7964,"text":"interpretation of that amendment is that the intention is that,"},{"t":7968,"text":"well, there might be decorative gates, that they're not to"},{"t":7970,"text":"be closed. Uh, okay. So that I'm just speaking listening"},{"t":7974,"text":"to your commentary. I took from that to that the,"},{"t":7978,"text":"what's been designated as a pocket park and public walkway"},{"t":7982,"text":"would be open to the public period. May I just"},{"t":7986,"text":"be further. Yeah. Um, and I don't want to preclude"},{"t":7990,"text":"the possibility that you might need to close the space"},{"t":7993,"text":"off sometimes for an event or let's say something does"},{"t":7997,"text":"happen where the, uh, owner of the property feels like"},{"t":8000,"text":"this is indeed necessary. I just would rather we start"},{"t":8004,"text":"with a literal open door and then revisit moving forward"},{"t":8011,"text":"if need be. Councillor Dell. You still have the floor."},{"t":8016,"text":"Uh, okay. That makes sense. So the gates could stay"},{"t":8018,"text":"because I might need to close but I tend to"},{"t":8021,"text":"have it open for the most of the day. Um,"},{"t":8022,"text":"okay. I'll, I'll just keep it open mind and listen"},{"t":8025,"text":"to anyone else. Thanks. On the amendment. Any other comments?"},{"t":8028,"text":"Councillor Thompson. More of a question to staff. Looking at"},{"t":8033,"text":"the wording that struck out there and hearing having heard"},{"t":8036,"text":"the explanation, uh, that I guess gates, yes. But let's"},{"t":8040,"text":"try to keep them open. They can be closed if"},{"t":8043,"text":"they need to be closed. Is that your understanding of"},{"t":8046,"text":"the effect of that language? Staff, is that how you"},{"t":8048,"text":"understand the impact of that amendment? Should it be adopted."},{"t":8053,"text":"Through you, Mayor. Yes. That's how I would read it"},{"t":8056,"text":"too. I think, um, the challenge would come and how"},{"t":8059,"text":"we would word that through legal agreement. Because typically, would"},{"t":8063,"text":"you do the say the pathway needs to be open"},{"t":8066,"text":"at all times? Or we would specify hours when gates"},{"t":8069,"text":"could be closed. But what would be the circumstances where"},{"t":8072,"text":"it would be reasonable for the gates to be closed."},{"t":8075,"text":"So, I mean, that might be something that we have"},{"t":8076,"text":"to go away and work on if that's the direction."},{"t":8079,"text":"But I just wanted to flag that. Perhaps as you're"},{"t":8081,"text":"anticipating discussions on a number of other factories, that could"},{"t":8083,"text":"be one of them before it returns for final consideration."},{"t":8086,"text":"Yes. Councillor Thompson. Anything else? On the amendment, Councillor Cardona."},{"t":8090,"text":"Yeah. It's, it's interesting one. I mean, I think for"},{"t":8093,"text":"me it's challenging because this is private property. And this"},{"t":8098,"text":"isn't something that the proponent is offering to the city"},{"t":8100,"text":"to have essentially a daytime quasi park on private property."},{"t":8105,"text":"My, my, my worry is that they will say, you"},{"t":8106,"text":"know what. This, this is, this doesn't meet our intention."},{"t":8109,"text":"So we're just not going to do a public space"},{"t":8110,"text":"at all. And it ends up backfiring. And I mean,"},{"t":8113,"text":"that's maybe an unfair question asked the staff because it's"},{"t":8115,"text":"sort of speculative. But I'm, I'm worried about sort of"},{"t":8119,"text":"a backfiring effect here where they're just like, well, we're"},{"t":8122,"text":"just not going to do an SRW then because our,"},{"t":8126,"text":"our stipulation is that it becomes, it sort of returns"},{"t":8130,"text":"to being private space for tenants after say 10 p."},{"t":8133,"text":"m. or something. So can our staff in a position"},{"t":8137,"text":"to comment on that. Stuff. Do you have any indication"},{"t":8140,"text":"in your previous discussions with the applicant of whether or"},{"t":8143,"text":"not they have a position on that. Mayor, um, like"},{"t":8151,"text":"the, the gating, uh, of, you know, after hours gating,"},{"t":8156,"text":"uh, restricting access to residents has been, you know, heard"},{"t":8161,"text":"from the applicant from very early on as in operational,"},{"t":8165,"text":"uh, consideration. So, um. So we have worked with the"},{"t":8173,"text":"applicant being mindful of that. And, you know, the gate"},{"t":8178,"text":"design, their location, them being open, opening clear, um, to"},{"t":8184,"text":"not impede visual and physical access to the drill block"},{"t":8189,"text":"walkway. And the pocket park plaza has been discussed for"},{"t":8194,"text":"that reason. So that during, you know, daytime hours, uh,"},{"t":8197,"text":"everything should read as an organic and a natural extension"},{"t":8200,"text":"of the public realm of the streetscape into the property"},{"t":8205,"text":"and through the property, uh, but we heard from, from"},{"t":8209,"text":"the applicant that it's an operational, um, consideration on, on"},{"t":8213,"text":"their end, uh, to be able to restrict access after"},{"t":8217,"text":"hours in ways that aligned with the, with the, uh,"},{"t":8223,"text":"the letter from the member of the public that Councillor"},{"t":8225,"text":"Hammond mentioned. So we work with the applicant that way"},{"t":8230,"text":"so far. Yeah. I just, my reading of the erasure"},{"t":8235,"text":"of that clause is that the gates would no longer"},{"t":8239,"text":"have to remain open during the public. I mean, couldn't"},{"t":8241,"text":"they read that in exactly the opposite way of what"},{"t":8244,"text":"was intended is that they'll be like, Oh, okay. Now"},{"t":8247,"text":"they don't have to remain open to the public during"},{"t":8249,"text":"the day. So maybe they'll just be open sporadically like"},{"t":8252,"text":"on Canada day or something like that. I mean, it"},{"t":8254,"text":"seems like I'm trying to figure out what the problem"},{"t":8256,"text":"is we're trying to solve. And I don't want to"},{"t":8257,"text":"have an unintended consequence here. It sounds to me like"},{"t":8259,"text":"the intention is we want this to be as public"},{"t":8262,"text":"as possible as much of the time as possible. So"},{"t":8265,"text":"I'm going to put that to staff. If that is"},{"t":8267,"text":"the intention of this conversation, how do we start in"},{"t":8270,"text":"this negotiation from a position that we would, we would"},{"t":8273,"text":"like to have the maximum amount of public access. And"},{"t":8275,"text":"maybe the proponent comes back as well. Let's, let's be"},{"t":8278,"text":"reasonable. And we'll have a compromise here. How would we"},{"t":8280,"text":"convey as a starting point? We want to maximum public"},{"t":8283,"text":"access. Before that negotiation begins. Is this the right amendment"},{"t":8287,"text":"to do that. Mr. Achter. Or Mr. Handy. Through you,"},{"t":8295,"text":"Ma'am, I'm not thinking that the, uh, the motion would"},{"t":8300,"text":"need to be amended any further to have that conversation."},{"t":8302,"text":"I think, um, we're hearing that. Sorry. Wood or would"},{"t":8305,"text":"not. Would not. Okay. Um, I think the amended motion"},{"t":8311,"text":"helps, but also the conversation here, the applicant here in"},{"t":8314,"text":"the conversation and us being able to hear what we've"},{"t":8317,"text":"heard today and have that conversation with the applicant. And"},{"t":8320,"text":"then that would come out through the conversations and negotiations"},{"t":8323,"text":"with the applicant and the terms that we would, uh,"},{"t":8328,"text":"put into an SRW that we bring back for council's"},{"t":8331,"text":"attention the next step. So, and when we report back"},{"t":8334,"text":"to cancer, we'll be able to tell you what the"},{"t":8336,"text":"results of those conversations were, what the applications, applicants desires"},{"t":8340,"text":"where the push pull and where we landed. You could"},{"t":8343,"text":"have an opportunity for the consideration. And that, in that"},{"t":8345,"text":"case, I can support this amendment, but and I'm just"},{"t":8348,"text":"one of nine votes, but I want to make my"},{"t":8350,"text":"position clear here. One, I do not want this to"},{"t":8353,"text":"backfire and the proponent, this proponent or other proponents say,"},{"t":8356,"text":"well, forget you guys, we're not going to offer SRWs"},{"t":8358,"text":"anymore if you're going to be overly binding our hands."},{"t":8361,"text":"And second of all, my intention is to begin and"},{"t":8364,"text":"negotiation. My assumptions that we begin to negotiation about a"},{"t":8367,"text":"reasonable public access to this space, but it does not"},{"t":8369,"text":"necessarily mean that it's open 24 7. That's not my"},{"t":8372,"text":"intention here at least. I think it's a reasonable if"},{"t":8374,"text":"they want to restrict access at certain times of the"},{"t":8377,"text":"day or the year. I don't know exactly where that"},{"t":8379,"text":"falls, but I'm okay with starting a position of saying"},{"t":8382,"text":"in theory we would like to maximize public access. Thank"},{"t":8385,"text":"you very much. On the amendment, Councillor actually know on"},{"t":8389,"text":"the amendment, Councillor Gardner, go ahead. I do not support"},{"t":8392,"text":"the amendment. I think the way it was written, although"},{"t":8395,"text":"I didn't quite like the word provided. I'm not sure"},{"t":8397,"text":"it's the right word. It gives flexibility the way it"},{"t":8401,"text":"was originally worded. In other words, uh, it is very"},{"t":8404,"text":"clear that the remain open during the day, but of"},{"t":8407,"text":"course the owner could keep it over any other times"},{"t":8411,"text":"that they want. It doesn't prohibit them from keeping it"},{"t":8414,"text":"open longer for the candidate day or whatever else that"},{"t":8417,"text":"they want to do. But I think it's very important"},{"t":8419,"text":"that they have the right to be able to lock"},{"t":8421,"text":"the gates at night. And so I don't support the"},{"t":8424,"text":"amendment. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Coleman. Thank you. I"},{"t":8427,"text":"don't support the amendment either. Um, it was referenced early"},{"t":8431,"text":"as this is a quasi public space. The CEPTED nomenclature"},{"t":8439,"text":"is public property, semi - public, semi - private, private"},{"t":8443,"text":"property. This plays in the middle of that. Um, I"},{"t":8446,"text":"think as we try and keep it open for a"},{"t":8450,"text":"longer time, we create our own set of issues. I"},{"t":8453,"text":"think that what we've got on private property that's offered"},{"t":8459,"text":"as semi - public, um, is a daytime capacity that"},{"t":8464,"text":"I think is useful. If the owners wanted to change"},{"t":8468,"text":"that over time, that might be acceptable or if there"},{"t":8471,"text":"were certain occasions when they wanted to do that. But"},{"t":8473,"text":"I think that this is part of a give on"},{"t":8476,"text":"their part. And I don't wish to put it at"},{"t":8478,"text":"risk. So I don't support the amendment. Thank you, Councillor"},{"t":8480,"text":"Thompson on the amendment. I think we have to bear"},{"t":8485,"text":"in mind the distinction between what the final rule will"},{"t":8488,"text":"be in the agreement. And the guidance that we're giving"},{"t":8492,"text":"staff, uh, in their negotiations. And what we're, it's the"},{"t":8498,"text":"latter that we're doing here. We are not wording anything"},{"t":8501,"text":"here. And staff have already indicated, uh, that the understand,"},{"t":8507,"text":"uh, what's emerging as a collective intention here, which is,"},{"t":8512,"text":"um, not jeopardize, uh, SRWs. Try to keep it open"},{"t":8517,"text":"as much as possible. Um, it can be closed when"},{"t":8521,"text":"it needs to be closed. So, uh, given that, that"},{"t":8525,"text":"staff understand that. I'm happy to support the motion. Thank"},{"t":8529,"text":"you on the amendment. Anybody else, counsel hand. Thanks, Mayor."},{"t":8535,"text":"Am I missing something or is the mover of this"},{"t":8538,"text":"amendment interested in keeping this open under most circumstances 24"},{"t":8542,"text":"hours a day. I believe I heard the mover earlier"},{"t":8547,"text":"say as much as possible and the goal would be"},{"t":8549,"text":"all of the time. Is that correct? Um, yeah, but"},{"t":8554,"text":"also I live in the real world. So if it"},{"t":8556,"text":"needs to be close sometimes, it can be close sometimes."},{"t":8560,"text":"For a special events. Maybe. Thanks, Mayor. Unless I'm wrong,"},{"t":8565,"text":"I believe the issue that we're talking about that no"},{"t":8568,"text":"one has said anything about is that we're concerned about"},{"t":8571,"text":"people sheltering in this place. And that hence why the"},{"t":8574,"text":"reason that they are, um, at the moment suggesting that"},{"t":8579,"text":"sundown or whatever the time would be that that's why"},{"t":8584,"text":"it would be locked. So that we're avoiding that problem."},{"t":8587,"text":"I'm not interested in putting those kind of barriers in"},{"t":8591,"text":"front of them to say, I mean, we all know"},{"t":8594,"text":"the realities in this city. And we are inundated with"},{"t":8597,"text":"emails of things that go on during the day as"},{"t":8601,"text":"well as things that go on during the night. And"},{"t":8603,"text":"the city is as per law allowing overnight shelterings so"},{"t":8609,"text":"that people don't die from the elements in public parks."},{"t":8613,"text":"But suddenly if we're saying that they have really got"},{"t":8617,"text":"to get into a habit of deciding whether it's appropriate"},{"t":8620,"text":"to keep it open or not, uh, it seems to"},{"t":8623,"text":"me as though they're working with a good model. And"},{"t":8627,"text":"by the way, I was very impressed that this was"},{"t":8629,"text":"actually being part of this application. So I won't be"},{"t":8633,"text":"supporting this because I want to deal with the realities"},{"t":8637,"text":"of what our city goes through, not just fantasy. Thank"},{"t":8641,"text":"you. Anybody else on the amendment. Just note that I"},{"t":8647,"text":"am going to support the amendment. I think it provides"},{"t":8649,"text":"direction to staff. I also think that it's fair to"},{"t":8651,"text":"consider that part of the attraction of this application is"},{"t":8654,"text":"the consideration of a pocket, park, and plaza. And if"},{"t":8659,"text":"that's going to be rewarded as something that is a"},{"t":8663,"text":"positive for an application, I think it should be accessible"},{"t":8665,"text":"to everyone. Obviously with the limitations, that would be at"},{"t":8668,"text":"the purview of the owners. So that being said, everyone's"},{"t":8673,"text":"had a chance to speak on the amendment only. And"},{"t":8675,"text":"that is to strike out the bold language, which is"},{"t":8677,"text":"struck through all those in favor. Call's your doll, Councillor"},{"t":8681,"text":"Kim, Councillor Loton, sorry, Councillor Caradona myself and Councillor Thompson."},{"t":8686,"text":"In opposition, Closer Coleman, Hammond and Gardner. So noting three"},{"t":8691,"text":"in opposition, that phrase is removed. And I believe staff"},{"t":8694,"text":"have understood the context of that conversation. E - Councillor"},{"t":8699,"text":"Kim, you still have the flora, as you made that"},{"t":8700,"text":"amendment. That was the second there. Um, let's go. That's"},{"t":8703,"text":"it. That's it. Okay. Councillor Thompson and Councillor Gardner. On"},{"t":8710,"text":"the main motion. On the main motion, thank you Mayor."},{"t":8713,"text":"Um, yeah, this is a project that has a lot"},{"t":8715,"text":"going for it. 133 secured rental homes in a mixed"},{"t":8720,"text":"use building with ground floor commercial space. Uh, the new"},{"t":8724,"text":"pocket park slash plaza two walkways. Um, retention of two"},{"t":8730,"text":"heritage buildings. Um, significant public realm improvements from, um, street"},{"t":8737,"text":"upgrades to trees and wider sidewalks. Uh, the bike infrastructure"},{"t":8742,"text":"improvements. Good TD transportation demand management measures. Um, no tenant"},{"t":8751,"text":"displacement, which is quite interesting. It's unusual for a project"},{"t":8755,"text":"of this scale. To have no tenant displacement. Um, because"},{"t":8760,"text":"most of our zoning has historically forced new multifamily to"},{"t":8765,"text":"only exist where, uh, multifamily already exists. Uh, so it"},{"t":8770,"text":"basically has, um, uh, maximized displacement. And it's why displacement"},{"t":8778,"text":"has been so common in the past and why many"},{"t":8780,"text":"people have been demo victed. This doesn't face that, uh,"},{"t":8785,"text":"constraint because it's an unusual sight. So I think it's"},{"t":8790,"text":"fair to support the variances given all of this. One"},{"t":8794,"text":"final comment is that, uh, you know, it's a sick"},{"t":8798,"text":"story building. We do need more housing than this. Uh,"},{"t":8803,"text":"however, you know, it's old town, it's Chinatown, uh, it's"},{"t":8807,"text":"wood frame, uh, is possible at six stories, which makes"},{"t":8810,"text":"it a lot more, uh, doable. Uh, so I'm happy"},{"t":8814,"text":"to see this project go ahead as it's currently described."},{"t":8818,"text":"Thanks. Thank you very much. Councillor Gardner. Thank you. There"},{"t":8822,"text":"was much that is positive with this proposal. The completion"},{"t":8825,"text":"of Chatham and Harold Street fronts is needed. And this"},{"t":8829,"text":"will be a very attractive, very positive contribution. The highlighting"},{"t":8833,"text":"of the heritage buildings is very important. Uh, with the"},{"t":8836,"text":"pocket park and right next door. And the passageway and"},{"t":8840,"text":"the POCAPART and general are very much wanted. In the"},{"t":8844,"text":"increasing offence height from 1. 22 metres to three metres"},{"t":8847,"text":"is supportable. Indeed, necessary given the street disorder in our"},{"t":8851,"text":"city. What is a missing is accommodation of people who"},{"t":8854,"text":"currently live on Harold and Chatham. While tenants unheld are"},{"t":8858,"text":"not to be evicted, they will lose some amenity ability"},{"t":8861,"text":"to park. And this should be a win - win"},{"t":8864,"text":"for everyone. So I have two amendments. May I seek"},{"t":8867,"text":"your advice? Cause I don't know where they go because"},{"t":8868,"text":"I just wrote them up. Okay. Okay. And I'll just"},{"t":8871,"text":"tell you what the first is about and perhaps. And"},{"t":8873,"text":"that is ensure that the walls facing navy residential properties"},{"t":8877,"text":"to the east and west are textured to have a"},{"t":8879,"text":"finish that is more neighborly bracket, not deadly black. Oh,"},{"t":8885,"text":"I don't know if you can put that in there."},{"t":8887,"text":"Where would it be appropriate for their to be a"},{"t":8890,"text":"reference to those design features? Would that be the rezoning"},{"t":8894,"text":"or would that be the development permit. Through the mayor,"},{"t":8899,"text":"that would be, uh, under the development permit. Yes. Can"},{"t":8902,"text":"you scroll down? That's what I thought. Do you scroll"},{"t":8904,"text":"down to the development permit pieces. Thank you. Keep going,"},{"t":8909,"text":"I think. Hold on there. Through the mayor, uh, under"},{"t":8915,"text":"one B, we have this further design resolution item. So"},{"t":8920,"text":"perhaps a new number five. Under one B5, a new"},{"t":8925,"text":"number five under one B. Councillor Gardener, could you repeat"},{"t":8929,"text":"your sentence please. Ensure that the wall's facing the neighbouring"},{"t":8936,"text":"residential properties to the East and West architecture have a"},{"t":8939,"text":"finish that is not black. I think the neighbours to"},{"t":8943,"text":"the east and to the west. During the presentation, they"},{"t":8949,"text":"suggested three different finishes. West. Can you complete that sentence,"},{"t":8955,"text":"please Council Gardner? Are not black. Are not black. Okay."},{"t":8962,"text":"Or not black. There you go. The wall is facing"},{"t":8966,"text":"the new properties at the east list are not black."},{"t":8968,"text":"Okay. That's one amendment. It's your second tier for that."},{"t":8972,"text":"Councillor Gimbal second that. Go ahead Councillor Garder on your"},{"t":8974,"text":"amendment. Thank you. I haven't been in that many jails"},{"t":8977,"text":"and penitentiaries, but I bet you they wouldn't have a"},{"t":8979,"text":"black fence, just a few feet away from where people"},{"t":8981,"text":"live. A black wall, which is for someone who lives"},{"t":8984,"text":"there permanently. So thank you. Councillor Kim, anything that you"},{"t":8988,"text":"want to add to that. Minor, but you know, I"},{"t":8992,"text":"didn't think about this, but it also just makes sure"},{"t":8995,"text":"there's less heat absorption from the building. Yeah. All right."},{"t":8999,"text":"Anyone else on the amendment. Out slur Lotton. Go ahead."},{"t":9003,"text":"Amendment. Thanks to you mare. I just, I just have"},{"t":9005,"text":"a quick question. Is this going to be clear enough?"},{"t":9008,"text":"Like it says not black, but we don't, we also"},{"t":9010,"text":"don't want dark grey. Like something light. Like I might,"},{"t":9015,"text":"am I splitting hairs here or? Yes, I think you're"},{"t":9017,"text":"splitting hair. Okay. Then never mind. The applicants are listening"},{"t":9021,"text":"as are there's our staff. So I'm confident that they've"},{"t":9024,"text":"understood that. Okay. I'll leave it at that. I support"},{"t":9027,"text":"this amendment. Mr. Dell on the amendment. I'm going to"},{"t":9031,"text":"oppose this and go to bat for the black walls."},{"t":9034,"text":"I mean, I think part of that area is a"},{"t":9036,"text":"bit industrial and it's nice. And I mean, staring in"},{"t":9038,"text":"a white wall or staring at a grey wall or"},{"t":9040,"text":"a black wall is all the exact same. Some people"},{"t":9043,"text":"like to stick. Like I like how dark it is."},{"t":9045,"text":"I look at that building on the corner of Yade"},{"t":9046,"text":"Street and Blanchard above the new glitch. That's all painted"},{"t":9050,"text":"flat black. And I'm sure some people said don't paint"},{"t":9052,"text":"it. But it looks, it looks great. I like to"},{"t":9054,"text":"design this building. I think the architects have done a"},{"t":9057,"text":"good job. They're proposing what works best. And I really"},{"t":9060,"text":"don't think the colour of the wall is going to"},{"t":9061,"text":"make a difference to folks. So I think this is"},{"t":9063,"text":"getting way too in the weeds, uh, council should not"},{"t":9066,"text":"be getting at this level of, of development. Maybe we"},{"t":9068,"text":"should have become architects or developers if you want to"},{"t":9070,"text":"do this. So I think this is a bad precedent"},{"t":9073,"text":"to set. And is putting our own personal preference on"},{"t":9076,"text":"a private development. So I'm going to oppose it. Thank"},{"t":9079,"text":"you very much. Anyone else on the amendment. I will"},{"t":9083,"text":"just note that in reference to the, um, particular location"},{"t":9088,"text":"that the Councillor reference is that was certainly opposed in"},{"t":9091,"text":"that day. And in fact, it appeared without anyone knowing"},{"t":9094,"text":"until it was after the fact. So it's not suggesting"},{"t":9097,"text":"that you do that as the applicant of your listening."},{"t":9100,"text":"Yeah. Okay. On the, um, on the amendment, oh, sorry,"},{"t":9103,"text":"Councillor Coleman, go ahead on the middle. Not a problem."},{"t":9106,"text":"I think the intent is, um, we tend to look"},{"t":9110,"text":"at these things in the light of day, in particular"},{"t":9113,"text":"on a sunny day and say, Oh, the black's okay."},{"t":9116,"text":"Um, I wasn't always a Rolling Stone fan, but painted"},{"t":9120,"text":"black was never one of my favourite songs. Um, I"},{"t":9123,"text":"think that this actually makes sense because what we do"},{"t":9125,"text":"see on the grey overcast days in the winter, that"},{"t":9130,"text":"black can become overbearing. So I think that this actually"},{"t":9134,"text":"makes some sense. I'm not going to suggest a different"},{"t":9137,"text":"colour palette for it. That would be inappropriate. But I"},{"t":9140,"text":"think just lightening it up on behalf of the adjacent"},{"t":9142,"text":"neighbours does make some sense. Thank you very much. Anybody"},{"t":9145,"text":"else on the amendment? Yes. Go ahead Council Bernard. Me?"},{"t":9149,"text":"Yes. Thank you. Yeah. The idea is to, and also"},{"t":9153,"text":"introduce either some texture or some different colour. And I"},{"t":9155,"text":"think, uh, the people who wrote to a suggested a"},{"t":9158,"text":"green wall, I'm not suggesting that only because you might"},{"t":9161,"text":"get rats and other problems coming into play. But it"},{"t":9165,"text":"would, uh, I hope that the proponent is listening and"},{"t":9169,"text":"realising that people are living there and permanently and looking"},{"t":9171,"text":"out a black wall just isn't humane. Thank you. Thank"},{"t":9175,"text":"you very much. Councillor Thompson on the amendment. Go ahead."},{"t":9177,"text":"I don't want to spend a lot of time on"},{"t":9179,"text":"this, but I'm wondering if staff could easily pull up,"},{"t":9182,"text":"uh, images of the walls that we're actually talking about."},{"t":9186,"text":"It takes a long time. Then I'll just conclude my"},{"t":9188,"text":"comments without that. Presentation that we had earlier. I believe"},{"t":9197,"text":"there was a representation of the walls."},{"t":9224,"text":"Through the mayor, uh, here they are. Okay. And so"},{"t":9228,"text":"there are properties that are directly facing those from close"},{"t":9232,"text":"up, what I think six metres or something. Through the"},{"t":9237,"text":"mayor, uh, so, uh, on the East elevation, yes, that's"},{"t":9241,"text":"the one where, uh, the building separation in total, uh,"},{"t":9245,"text":"is about six metres. On the west elevation, you see"},{"t":9251,"text":"that grey hatched portion that in fact coincides with, um,"},{"t":9256,"text":"the existing buildings sidewall, the elevation, uh, and the darker"},{"t":9262,"text":"portion on the elevation that you see to the right"},{"t":9264,"text":"hand side. That would coincide with the podium CORTYART. That"},{"t":9272,"text":"ironworks building has. Okay. Um, thanks for that. Uh, yeah,"},{"t":9281,"text":"I really don't know where I stand on this. Like"},{"t":9283,"text":"I, I guess it would be nicer, some residents feel"},{"t":9286,"text":"it would be nicer. I don't know if all residents"},{"t":9288,"text":"feel that way. Um, I certainly don't want council getting"},{"t":9291,"text":"into this kind of, uh, detailed work, um, in future."},{"t":9296,"text":"I'll have to just listen to my colleagues the rest"},{"t":9299,"text":"of their comments before I decide how I'll vote on"},{"t":9301,"text":"this. Thank you very much. On the amendment. Anybody else."},{"t":9306,"text":"Not seeing anybody else on the amendment. All those in"},{"t":9309,"text":"favor of the amendment. Councillor Kim. Councillor Carona Council Loton,"},{"t":9313,"text":"myself Councillor Coleman Councillor Hamon Councillor Gardner and Councillor Thompson."},{"t":9318,"text":"Council Gauthier, you still have the floor. I think you"},{"t":9320,"text":"have a further amendment. Yes, I'm sorry. My apologies. And"},{"t":9324,"text":"Councillor Dell in opposition. Noting one in opposition, that amendment"},{"t":9327,"text":"is adopted. Council Grudner, I believe you have another amendment."},{"t":9329,"text":"Yes, thank you. We're concerned about 10 minutes having cats"},{"t":9332,"text":"and tenants having other rights. And the people that wrote"},{"t":9335,"text":"to us said they need their cars for their businesses."},{"t":9339,"text":"And some of them have specific, uh, have cars there"},{"t":9342,"text":"now that they are renting from the same owners. So"},{"t":9345,"text":"I am suggesting an amendment just to ensure the existing"},{"t":9348,"text":"tenants only are given the same access to parking facility"},{"t":9352,"text":"as they currently have. Now return is at 532 and"},{"t":9355,"text":"536 Herald. The third tenants. I think that might, that's"},{"t":9363,"text":"not a design. Well, sort of as a design parking."},{"t":9367,"text":"Is that something you would prefer the development permit or"},{"t":9369,"text":"the rezoning. Through the mayor, uh, development permit. Okay. So"},{"t":9375,"text":"I'm thinking this would be, um, probably a new one"},{"t":9379,"text":"A7 as opposed because it's not a design feature, right?"},{"t":9385,"text":"So Councillor Gardner, can you repeat what you just said,"},{"t":9387,"text":"please? Grandfather in accessibility to parking spots for current tenants"},{"t":9397,"text":"of, were the numbers 532 and 536 Herald. Okay. I"},{"t":9402,"text":"think it's not grandfathering. I think you're probably suggesting that"},{"t":9405,"text":"you would provide parking spots in the new lot to"},{"t":9410,"text":"existing tenants of those two buildings. Yes. Okay. So provide"},{"t":9415,"text":"parking spots in the new parking lot to the existing"},{"t":9417,"text":"tenants of repeat the numbers, 526. No. 532 and 536."},{"t":9425,"text":"I believe they're called 532 and 536, Harold. Okay. There"},{"t":9430,"text":"may be only two of them. There may be 10."},{"t":9432,"text":"I don't know. It's an existing tenants. Are you intending"},{"t":9437,"text":"all the existing tendons or just those who know the"},{"t":9439,"text":"ones who have for existing tenants of three 532 537"},{"t":9445,"text":"who currently have parking? Yes. In the adjacent lot. Any"},{"t":9452,"text":"adjacent law. Yeah. I think that's more clear. All right."},{"t":9455,"text":"I think that's clear. I believe that's what you, I"},{"t":9458,"text":"have understood you to intend. Is there a second or"},{"t":9460,"text":"for that. Councillor Kim is seconding that. Councillor Gardner, go"},{"t":9464,"text":"ahead on your amendment. Yeah. We've, as I said, when"},{"t":9467,"text":"the letters we got from people, uh, that was very"},{"t":9470,"text":"much the concern. And they said that they needed it"},{"t":9472,"text":"for their employment. And they have been living there in"},{"t":9475,"text":"some for several years in the letters that we received."},{"t":9478,"text":"And I just think that, uh, it's a different type"},{"t":9480,"text":"of way of, uh, ending tendencies, uh, someone has to"},{"t":9484,"text":"either end their employment or change it in order to"},{"t":9486,"text":"stay in their residence. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Kim"},{"t":9489,"text":"as the seconder and Mr. Johnson has a question. Councillor,"},{"t":9493,"text":"can you want to pause just let Mr. Johnson speak?"},{"t":9496,"text":"Mr. Johnson, go ahead, please. Thank you, Mayor. It's just"},{"t":9500,"text":"going to suggest that potentially this amendment would be more"},{"t":9504,"text":"appropriate as a new, um, one C because it's not"},{"t":9508,"text":"a, it's not a variance to the zoning bylaw requirements."},{"t":9513,"text":"Okay. So let's just, that makes perfect sense. So staff,"},{"t":9517,"text":"if you could just cut that out and put it"},{"t":9518,"text":"down as a new one C in that same section."},{"t":9529,"text":"Oh, yes. For many. We'll let you play with the"},{"t":9531,"text":"formatting while I go to Councillor Kim. Any comments. Anything"},{"t":9537,"text":"else on this, Councillor Thompson. Yeah, I guess it's a"},{"t":9540,"text":"question for staff. Does this change the economics of the"},{"t":9544,"text":"project? Like whether the suites that now have fewer spots"},{"t":9549,"text":"would be rentable at the same rates. Mr. Octon. Uh,"},{"t":9556,"text":"through the mayor, uh, this is best answered by the"},{"t":9561,"text":"owner and operator of the existing rental buildings. And yeah."},{"t":9567,"text":"Right. Councillor Thompson. That's not a question that appears to"},{"t":9571,"text":"be answerable at this point. Okay. Councillor Coleman. Any other"},{"t":9575,"text":"questions on this? Councillor Carejon? Not a question. Um, comment."},{"t":9579,"text":"Yep. A comment. I don't support this because we're getting"},{"t":9583,"text":"deep into the weeds. Um, it doesn't necessarily change the"},{"t":9587,"text":"economics, but I think we're, as I say, getting deep"},{"t":9591,"text":"into, uh, components that should deal dealt with through the"},{"t":9596,"text":"rental agreements of the landlord and the residents who are"},{"t":9600,"text":"already there. Thank you, Councillor Caradona. Thanks Mayor. This is"},{"t":9604,"text":"one where I have absolutely no clue if this is"},{"t":9606,"text":"what the proponent would want to do or if this,"},{"t":9610,"text":"the existing tenants would want this. It's just to me,"},{"t":9611,"text":"this is too far in the weed. So I can't"},{"t":9614,"text":"support this one is currently written. I think that the"},{"t":9618,"text":"proponents are probably listening and they can maybe have a"},{"t":9620,"text":"conversation with the current tenants about. Considering offering them parking"},{"t":9623,"text":"spaces or something, but I don't think it needs to"},{"t":9625,"text":"be a condition of the DP. Thank you. Anybody else?"},{"t":9632,"text":"Councillor Del? Yeah. This, this is complex in the weeds."},{"t":9635,"text":"I wouldn't even want to ask staff to start getting"},{"t":9637,"text":"it to legal agreements about parking spaces. There's a lot"},{"t":9639,"text":"of parking around here. There's a parking lot across the"},{"t":9642,"text":"street. There's, there's this parquet is one or two blocks"},{"t":9645,"text":"away. So the new project's going to have 72 spaces"},{"t":9649,"text":"plus 11, I think. And so starting to get like"},{"t":9653,"text":"legal agreements of who parks where should not be where"},{"t":9655,"text":"we're at. And I think it's going to cause headaches"},{"t":9657,"text":"for everyone. So I just going to oppose this, um,"},{"t":9659,"text":"on that principle. Thank you. Anybody else on this amendment?"},{"t":9664,"text":"Councillor Kim. Uh, thanks through the chair. Um, surprisingly, I"},{"t":9668,"text":"think I'm in favor of the amendment. Uh, because the"},{"t":9671,"text":"words of our BC Transit presenters are bringing in my"},{"t":9674,"text":"head about curb space, um, new tenants, uh, will self"},{"t":9679,"text":"- select into, uh, this area. But the current ones,"},{"t":9683,"text":"um, yeah, I think the mover made a good point"},{"t":9687,"text":"about folks who are sort of selfie victim, um, because"},{"t":9691,"text":"they need access to parking. It's not a life I"},{"t":9694,"text":"personally know, but I can recognise that need and want"},{"t":9697,"text":"to think about future proofing ourselves with respect to transit."},{"t":9702,"text":"Thanks. Thank you. Anybody else on the amendment. We also"},{"t":9707,"text":"need amendment. All those in favor of the amendment. Of"},{"t":9711,"text":"the amendment, please indicate all those in favor of the"},{"t":9713,"text":"amendment. Councillor Kim Councillor Hemman to Councillor Gardner in opposition."},{"t":9719,"text":"Councillor Dell, Councillor Caridona, Councillor Loton, my self - Councillor"},{"t":9723,"text":"Coleman and Councillor Thompson. Noting the six in opposition that"},{"t":9730,"text":"amendment is defeated. But Councillor Gardner, you still have the"},{"t":9733,"text":"floor. Before I go to you, Councillor, uh, are there"},{"t":9735,"text":"any other speakers to this after Councillor Gardner. No. Not"},{"t":9743,"text":"to the main motion. All right. With that, then I'm"},{"t":9744,"text":"going to go to Councillor Gardner despite the fact that"},{"t":9746,"text":"it will bleed into our regular lunch hour so that"},{"t":9749,"text":"we can see if we can finish this before we"},{"t":9750,"text":"break. Well, I've already said, I think it's a great"},{"t":9752,"text":"development. And I just wanted to make it a win"},{"t":9754,"text":"- win for the current tenants and others. And so,"},{"t":9757,"text":"uh, I think that it's really going to be very,"},{"t":9761,"text":"just so positive for the area to have those, that"},{"t":9764,"text":"sections of Harold and Chatham to be completed. Thank you."},{"t":9767,"text":"Thank you. Any other final comments. I go all the"},{"t":9773,"text":"positive things. This is a great thing. And I'm very"},{"t":9775,"text":"excited to see it start with that. All those in"},{"t":9777,"text":"favor. Is anyone opposed? That is unanimous. Thank you very"},{"t":9783,"text":"much for that. Congratulations. And thank you folks. So we"},{"t":9786,"text":"have completed G1 when we return after lunch at a"},{"t":9789,"text":"few minutes after one. Let's give us to 105. We"},{"t":9792,"text":"will start with G2."},{"t":9929,"text":"City Council's May 28th meeting of Committee of the Whole"},{"t":9933,"text":"Prior to our break we concluded the land use matter"},{"t":9936,"text":"that was called G1 and now we are moving on"},{"t":9938,"text":"to the land use better that is G2 just for"},{"t":9940,"text":"your information and reminder this is the rezoning application for"},{"t":9945,"text":"90912 Vancouver Street 911 Quadrat Street and 930 and 990"},{"t":9950,"text":"Verdet Avenue. Before we begin Councillor Coleman would like to"},{"t":9954,"text":"speak to the reasons why he will be recusing himself"},{"t":9957,"text":"from this matter. Councillor Coleman. Thank you your worship. We"},{"t":9960,"text":"recuse ourselves when we feel that we might be perceived"},{"t":9964,"text":"as being in conflict of one form or another. I"},{"t":9967,"text":"would like to spend a little more time in explaining"},{"t":9970,"text":"my recusal because I'm aware that some comments from this"},{"t":9973,"text":"table in the past have suggested that on this issue"},{"t":9976,"text":"I'm not really in conflict. I have been a parishioner"},{"t":9980,"text":"of Christchurch Cathedral for more than four decades. I attend"},{"t":9983,"text":"regularly. I spent more than five years on parish council."},{"t":9989,"text":"Those weren't the reasons that I recused myself when we"},{"t":9991,"text":"dealt with the many years ago now with the Mount"},{"t":9994,"text":"Edwards court decision. It was because my wife was working"},{"t":9998,"text":"for a series of bishops in the Senate office on"},{"t":10002,"text":"the precinct. My wife has now retired but she still"},{"t":10006,"text":"gains a pension from the Anglican Church. If we want"},{"t":10010,"text":"to protect the integrity of the system, then I feel"},{"t":10013,"text":"I need to recuse myself from these discussions and have"},{"t":10016,"text":"done so assiduously since the Notion first came up. Thank"},{"t":10021,"text":"you Councillor and kudos to you for properly using assiduously."},{"t":10027,"text":"So I'm also aware that before we begin our work"},{"t":10030,"text":"on item G2 that Councillor Gardner would like to propose"},{"t":10035,"text":"an amendment or rather a suspension of the rules. And"},{"t":10038,"text":"so let me describe for folks who are on accustomed"},{"t":10040,"text":"to this how this works under our rules. So under"},{"t":10043,"text":"our rules and procedures bylaw, under Section 10 sub two,"},{"t":10047,"text":"Council May at any time vote to suspend specific rules"},{"t":10050,"text":"as it applies to Council. Under section 37 sub 2"},{"t":10055,"text":"sub C, this allows an application of the section that"},{"t":10058,"text":"I just previously mentioned which applies to Council to also"},{"t":10061,"text":"to apply to committee. Under Section 18, sub 9, sub"},{"t":10066,"text":"D. It contains our current policies around the number of"},{"t":10069,"text":"minutes a member may speak to a particular item. And"},{"t":10072,"text":"that currently stands at 10 minutes. In order to change"},{"t":10076,"text":"that, someone would need to make a motion to suspend"},{"t":10080,"text":"Section 18 sub 9 sub D of our rules and"},{"t":10083,"text":"procedures to allow up to a specified number of minutes"},{"t":10086,"text":"for a Council member's questions and deliberations on item G2."},{"t":10093,"text":"Would anyone like to do that? Councillor Gardner, would you"},{"t":10096,"text":"like to make that motion? Yes, thank you. Very good."},{"t":10100,"text":"So just for the information of staff who are recording"},{"t":10102,"text":"this, I'll repeat that. Council Gardner has moved to suspend"},{"t":10106,"text":"Section 18 sub nine sub D of the rules and"},{"t":10109,"text":"procedures applying to Committee of the Whole and Council to"},{"t":10113,"text":"allow up to how many minutes? 15. 15 minutes for"},{"t":10118,"text":"a Council Members questions and deliberations on item G2. Is"},{"t":10122,"text":"there a seconder for that motion? Councillor Hamit is seconding."},{"t":10127,"text":"This is usually considered as any regular motion. It is"},{"t":10130,"text":"only a simple majority, not a particular supermajority. And so"},{"t":10133,"text":"there is commentary aloud on the motion. Council Gardner, or"},{"t":10137,"text":"B. Thank you. Mayor, this proposal is quite contentious. And"},{"t":10141,"text":"it's very important that the diocese, its parishioners, the neighbourhood"},{"t":10146,"text":"and the city. It's important to all groups. And I"},{"t":10150,"text":"have many questions and I'm sure others will too. And"},{"t":10153,"text":"that is why I would like the time limit lifted"},{"t":10156,"text":"because we frequently run into problems only when we have"},{"t":10160,"text":"a major proposed that like this. And it's especially contentious,"},{"t":10164,"text":"I believe, because of the absence of some information, uh,"},{"t":10171,"text":"which I believe should have been here. And it was"},{"t":10174,"text":"not staff's fault. It isn't here. But it isn't. And"},{"t":10176,"text":"so, um, I'm quite concerned about this proposal. Thank you."},{"t":10180,"text":"Thank you very much, Councillor Hammond. Anything to add. No,"},{"t":10185,"text":"nothing to add. Okay. Any other comments on the motion"},{"t":10188,"text":"to suspend the rules specifically to suspend section 18 sub"},{"t":10192,"text":"nine sub d for the purposes of discussing item G2."},{"t":10195,"text":"Councillor Dell. Um, yeah, I'll just oppose a motion. I"},{"t":10200,"text":"think 10 minutes is a lot. We spend a lot"},{"t":10202,"text":"of time this morning. Some folks around this table have"},{"t":10205,"text":"talked a lot this morning. So my show that I"},{"t":10207,"text":"thought hadn't had no time to speak whatsoever. Um, more"},{"t":10210,"text":"importantly, 10 minutes, maybe not enough individually, but there's nine"},{"t":10213,"text":"of us around this table or eight of us who"},{"t":10215,"text":"was going to be asking many similar questions. So, um,"},{"t":10217,"text":"we have things to do. There's a lot of information."},{"t":10220,"text":"Some of the stuff could have been answered ahead of"},{"t":10221,"text":"time. And I think we should keep it as is."},{"t":10224,"text":"Thank you very much. Anybody else. Motion to suspend, not"},{"t":10228,"text":"seeing anybody else in the motion to suspend. Always in,"},{"t":10231,"text":"oh, go ahead, Councillor Thompson. Sorry. I didn't see you"},{"t":10233,"text":"there. Just sorry, Mayor. I was late getting my hand"},{"t":10236,"text":"up. Um, yeah, I generally think 10 minutes is plenty"},{"t":10240,"text":"long enough for us to be speaking if we're being"},{"t":10243,"text":"courteous and careful with our, our comments and questions. Um,"},{"t":10249,"text":"in this case, it is a, it is a very,"},{"t":10251,"text":"uh, complex and important file. So I'm not going to"},{"t":10255,"text":"oppose it. But I will say that I'll be watching"},{"t":10258,"text":"my colleagues closely to see if we stick to the"},{"t":10262,"text":"idea of being concise and courteous, uh, for future, uh,"},{"t":10266,"text":"votes on this subject. Thank you very much. Anybody else"},{"t":10270,"text":"motion to suspend. I'm not seeing anyone else just noting"},{"t":10273,"text":"of course the Councillor Coleman has recused himself. So their"},{"t":10276,"text":"AWS hear all those in favor of the motion to"},{"t":10279,"text":"suspend. Council CORGONA, myself, Councillor Thompson, Councillor Gardner, Councillor Hamed."},{"t":10286,"text":"In opposition. Councillor Do, Councillor Kim and Councillor Loton. I"},{"t":10292,"text":"believe, if I'm correct, that would be five in favor"},{"t":10294,"text":"and three in opposition. And therefore the motion to suspend"},{"t":10297,"text":"in favor of replacing actually 10 minutes with 15 does"},{"t":10301,"text":"pass. So all other rules remain in place, just to"},{"t":10304,"text":"be clear. And so the only thing that has changed"},{"t":10307,"text":"is that rather than 10 minutes as a clock, it"},{"t":10309,"text":"will be 15 per person on this one item reminder"},{"t":10313,"text":"that includes all of your questions and all of your"},{"t":10316,"text":"commentary. So that does not change. That remains the same."},{"t":10320,"text":"With that then, I will turn it over to our"},{"t":10322,"text":"able staff who seem comfortable, uh, and when you begin"},{"t":10325,"text":"to speak or whenever you start actually, it would be"},{"t":10327,"text":"great for you to remind us who you are. So"},{"t":10328,"text":"the public has that information. And whenever you're ready. Thank"},{"t":10335,"text":"you. Uh, good morning. Apologies. Meroralto members of Council. My"},{"t":10339,"text":"name is Miko Batanzo, senior planner urban design with development"},{"t":10342,"text":"services. And I'm here with my colleagues, Crystal Steveno senior"},{"t":10346,"text":"heritage planner. And Jim Handy are acting assistant director of"},{"t":10349,"text":"development services. Uh, this is a rezoning. I don't know"},{"t":10353,"text":"if we can get the presentation up. Um, that would"},{"t":10357,"text":"be helpful. Um, so I can just sort of carry"},{"t":10363,"text":"on talking here where we get that presentation up. But,"},{"t":10365,"text":"um, this is a rezoning application only. So a development"},{"t":10368,"text":"permit is not associated with the application, meaning that the"},{"t":10371,"text":"key considerations for council are the proposed additional land uses."},{"t":10375,"text":"The proposed increases to the maximum building heights and heritage"},{"t":10379,"text":"conservation goals relative to the proposed density mass and location"},{"t":10382,"text":"of those proposed buildings. Uh, specifically the rezoning is to"},{"t":10386,"text":"increase the density from two to one FSR or floor"},{"t":10390,"text":"space ratio to 2. 4 to one floor space ratio"},{"t":10393,"text":"to increase the maximum building heights from 22. 5 metres"},{"t":10397,"text":"to 54 metres or from seven stories to 18 stories."},{"t":10401,"text":"And to add commercial and residential uses. This is obviously"},{"t":10405,"text":"the site of the Chrysler's Cathedral and the Christ Church"},{"t":10408,"text":"Cathedral School and it occupies a city bloc with significant"},{"t":10411,"text":"heritage value. Uh, here are some photos of the subject"},{"t":10415,"text":"property showing the cathedral from quadrant street just on the"},{"t":10418,"text":"left. The dinery building on Burdet along with the temporary"},{"t":10422,"text":"school and portable buildings at the top right hand image."},{"t":10425,"text":"And Yarrow Chapel and the Diocese offices on Vancouver Street"},{"t":10429,"text":"in the bottom left or bottom right image. Sorry. Um,"},{"t":10432,"text":"moving over to Rockland Avenue. You can see Memorial Hall"},{"t":10436,"text":"here at the corner of Vancouver and Rockland. And then"},{"t":10439,"text":"the, uh, that North facade of the Cathedral building on"},{"t":10442,"text":"Rockland as well. And then this slide just provides an"},{"t":10446,"text":"aerial overview of the site to look at sort of"},{"t":10448,"text":"the assembly of gildings and open spaces that make up"},{"t":10450,"text":"the block as a whole. And this might be a"},{"t":10453,"text":"good image to return to should we want to discuss"},{"t":10455,"text":"specific aspects of the site. Moving to the site context"},{"t":10461,"text":"in the neighbouring properties. This slide is a photo montage"},{"t":10464,"text":"of the buildings to the south on Burdette Avenue. Uh,"},{"t":10467,"text":"and then moving to the north alongue, we have pioneer"},{"t":10471,"text":"square in the bottom right - hand side. Pioneer Square"},{"t":10474,"text":"Park rather than a four - story residential apartment and"},{"t":10478,"text":"the three - story Mount Edwards court support of housing"},{"t":10480,"text":"building in the top two images there. And then looking"},{"t":10485,"text":"across the street on Quadra, uh, west, uh, we see"},{"t":10489,"text":"the courthouse playground and the former YMCA building. And then"},{"t":10493,"text":"looking at Vancouver Street, we have two and three -"},{"t":10496,"text":"story apartment buildings lining, uh, Vancouver Street directly adjacent to"},{"t":10499,"text":"the property. To provide a more in - depth account"},{"t":10504,"text":"of the heritage aspects of the site, this slide shows"},{"t":10506,"text":"the four heritage buildings that our senior Heritage Planet will"},{"t":10510,"text":"brief us on. And an excerpt from the OCP, which"},{"t":10512,"text":"speaks to the vision for the city to value and"},{"t":10515,"text":"celebrate these heritage assets while balancing development in the city."},{"t":10519,"text":"And I'll just turn it over to Crystal. Thank you."},{"t":10524,"text":"And through the mayor of Crystal Steven, I will senior"},{"t":10527,"text":"hater to planner for development services. The Heritage designation by"},{"t":10533,"text":"- law applies to the area shown in grey, which"},{"t":10536,"text":"means the buildings and the space around the properties are"},{"t":10539,"text":"protected. Christ Church Cathedral Precinct is made up of four"},{"t":10543,"text":"heritage buildings, three of which are formally protected as shown"},{"t":10546,"text":"in the previous slide and one which is on the"},{"t":10548,"text":"Heritage Register. Memorial Hall was built from 1923 to 24,"},{"t":10556,"text":"construction of Christ Church Cathedral began, and both were designed"},{"t":10559,"text":"by architect John Keith. In 1938, the Yarrow Chapel and"},{"t":10564,"text":"the Deanry were built, and both were designed by the"},{"t":10567,"text":"architect Percy James. The standards and guidelines for the conservation"},{"t":10572,"text":"of historic places in Canada have a section on cultural"},{"t":10575,"text":"landscapes where heritage districts are defined as a place comprising"},{"t":10580,"text":"a group of buildings, structures, and landscapes, and their spatial"},{"t":10585,"text":"relationships where built forms are often the major defining features"},{"t":10589,"text":"and where the collective identity has heritage value for a"},{"t":10593,"text":"community, province, territory, or the nation. This unique site and"},{"t":10598,"text":"collection of faith - based buildings make up what is"},{"t":10600,"text":"often referred to as the Christchurch Cathedral precinct, and they"},{"t":10604,"text":"are significant as individual structures and valued as a grouping"},{"t":10608,"text":"as they share a full - city bloc and with"},{"t":10611,"text":"their character - defining mature landscapes. The spaces between the"},{"t":10615,"text":"buildings make an inspiring and meditative setting. All which are"},{"t":10620,"text":"significant in terms of the relationship to one another, creating"},{"t":10624,"text":"a collective identity which has Heritage Value for a community."},{"t":10629,"text":"I'll now provide a summarized description of the character -"},{"t":10632,"text":"defining elements for each heritage building as listed in their"},{"t":10635,"text":"respective statements of significance. The Christchurch Cathedrals character defining elements"},{"t":10640,"text":"are its location and citing a top - a -"},{"t":10643,"text":"hill with prominence in the street scape, including the view"},{"t":10647,"text":"corridor of the building from Courtney Street. Its relationship with"},{"t":10651,"text":"memorial hall, yarrow chapel, and the deanery. Its community use"},{"t":10656,"text":"and cultural associations, including its rituals and traditions, including the"},{"t":10661,"text":"bell ringing. Its form, scale, and massing, including its two"},{"t":10665,"text":"towers on the west end, and its outdoor pulpit to"},{"t":10667,"text":"the south. Its characteristics of the gothic revival style and"},{"t":10672,"text":"stone materiality, and its mature landscaping and surrounding grounds to"},{"t":10676,"text":"the south. Memorial's, sorry, memorial halls character defining elements are"},{"t":10684,"text":"its location to the east of Christchurch Cathedral. It's varied"},{"t":10687,"text":"uses over the years with a constant connection to religious"},{"t":10690,"text":"education. Its form scale and massing, its characteristics of the"},{"t":10694,"text":"Gothic revival style. Its materials, including its rust stone construction,"},{"t":10699,"text":"and its landscaping including mature trees out front. Eurochapel's characteristics"},{"t":10707,"text":"are defined by its relationship with the Christchurch Cathedral and"},{"t":10711,"text":"its ongoing use for church purposes. Its small form scale"},{"t":10715,"text":"and massing, its characteristics of the French romanesque style, including"},{"t":10719,"text":"the rounded apps, its arched windows and doors. Also, it's"},{"t":10723,"text":"materiality, including wood detailing and stucco finish. It's crossed on"},{"t":10727,"text":"the east end apps, and it's mature plantings. The denery"},{"t":10732,"text":"is valued for its continued use for church functions and"},{"t":10735,"text":"relationship to Christchurch Cathedral. Its form scale and massing. Its"},{"t":10740,"text":"characteristics of the English arts and cross movement, its form"},{"t":10744,"text":"and pattern of fenestration, its use of materials, um, natural"},{"t":10748,"text":"materials, and its mature landscaping. I'll just turn it back"},{"t":10752,"text":"to Mr. Patenzo. Thank you, Crystal. And so, uh, now"},{"t":10758,"text":"we've kind of been through the site background, and I"},{"t":10760,"text":"just wanted to speak to some of the analyses carried"},{"t":10762,"text":"out that informed the recommended motion. And so this slide"},{"t":10765,"text":"shows the key policies used to assess the application, but"},{"t":10768,"text":"I wanted to draw council's attention to the downtown core"},{"t":10770,"text":"area plan. And so previously, the Christurish cathedral land, we're"},{"t":10773,"text":"in the Fairfield neighbourhood, which means that proposals here would"},{"t":10776,"text":"have been assessed against a different set of policies. But"},{"t":10779,"text":"when the downtown core area plan was updated in 2021"},{"t":10782,"text":"- 2022, the downtown boundaries expanded to include this site"},{"t":10786,"text":"along with portions of North Park, Rock Bay, and James"},{"t":10788,"text":"Bay. And so now the application is assessed against the"},{"t":10791,"text":"downtown core area plan as opposed to the general urban"},{"t":10795,"text":"design guidelines. And when we go to our official community"},{"t":10799,"text":"plan, the proposed new land uses in the OCP, sorry,"},{"t":10804,"text":"the proposed new land uses, when we consider the proposed"},{"t":10808,"text":"new land uses, the OCP supports a wide variety of"},{"t":10811,"text":"land uses at this location. And those include residential and"},{"t":10814,"text":"commercial, which are the proposed additional land uses being sought,"},{"t":10818,"text":"meaning this applicant, this aspect of the proposal is supportable."},{"t":10822,"text":"Notably, the only land uses currently supported on the site"},{"t":10825,"text":"are for not - for - profit community recreational facilities,"},{"t":10828,"text":"theatre use, or public buildings. To assess the proposed density"},{"t":10833,"text":"and building heights, we look at the BULF form guidance"},{"t":10836,"text":"in the OCP. Here, the key policy directions are to"},{"t":10839,"text":"contribute to and not detract from the Envisioned Urban Forum,"},{"t":10844,"text":"and to promote traditional building heights and building typologies between"},{"t":10847,"text":"different areas of the city. The goals with these policies"},{"t":10851,"text":"are to work within the Planning framework that ultimately optimizes"},{"t":10854,"text":"the developability of the city while maintaining livability and while"},{"t":10859,"text":"maintaining livability and a predictable investment ecosystem. Part of the"},{"t":10864,"text":"BULF form guidance in the OCP relies on the urban"},{"t":10866,"text":"structure concept, which broadly outlines the City Vision for Building"},{"t":10870,"text":"Heights, land uses, massing, and density. Within the urban structure"},{"t":10874,"text":"concept, this site sits at the edge of the downtown"},{"t":10876,"text":"core between it and the residential areas of the city."},{"t":10879,"text":"And you can see it highlighted there with the big"},{"t":10881,"text":"red arrow. Uh, in the downtown core, the tallest buildings"},{"t":10885,"text":"in the city, which are generally up to 24 stories,"},{"t":10888,"text":"are envisioned to be concentrated along dallas, or sorry, how"},{"t":10892,"text":"long Douglas blanchered and Yate streets, transitioning to lower building"},{"t":10897,"text":"forms at the edges. And the residential fabric of the"},{"t":10900,"text":"city envisions a range of low - rise and ground"},{"t":10903,"text":"- oriented residential infill buildings for buildings up to 6"},{"t":10905,"text":"stories. Other key objectives applications are assessed against, include how"},{"t":10911,"text":"well they preserve and highlight Heritage Assets, and how those"},{"t":10915,"text":"distinctive features of the city are promoted or affected by"},{"t":10917,"text":"a proposal. Additional guidance is provided to discourage land speculation,"},{"t":10922,"text":"which can occur when proposals significantly depart from the urban"},{"t":10925,"text":"structure concept. Looking at the downtown core area plan now,"},{"t":10929,"text":"uh, it provides further guidance on proposed building heights and"},{"t":10932,"text":"densities. And we can look at the urban amphitheater concept,"},{"t":10935,"text":"uh, which you can see here, uh, and note that"},{"t":10938,"text":"the site, this site is actually outside of the urban"},{"t":10940,"text":"amphitheater concept. Uh, meaning that tall buildings are not part"},{"t":10944,"text":"of the City vision for this site. Notably, the urban"},{"t":10949,"text":"amphitheater concept has served the city well by focusing tall"},{"t":10952,"text":"building growth along the Blanchard and Douglas Street corridors and"},{"t":10955,"text":"extending eastward toward the 8. By utilising this concept, tall"},{"t":10959,"text":"buildings are clustered in areas where they have the least"},{"t":10961,"text":"impact to the surrounding areas. Although the site is outside"},{"t":10966,"text":"of the urban amphitheater concept, or urban amphitheater, it's noted"},{"t":10970,"text":"as a special height area in the downtown core area"},{"t":10972,"text":"plan, maximum building height map, which is what you see"},{"t":10975,"text":"here. And this is typically interpreted to anticipate a potential"},{"t":10980,"text":"for taller building forms at this site to help preserve"},{"t":10983,"text":"the heritage assets. Looking at adjacent areas of the city"},{"t":10988,"text":"on this map, helps to inform what that might mean."},{"t":10991,"text":"So across the street on Quadra Street, uh, the maximum"},{"t":10994,"text":"building heights range from 10 to 12 stories and buildings"},{"t":10997,"text":"up to six stories are envisioned to the northeast and"},{"t":10999,"text":"south, so everywhere else around the site. Now turning to"},{"t":11004,"text":"the proposal, this image provides a rendering of what some"},{"t":11007,"text":"potential buildings could look like at the proposed building heights."},{"t":11010,"text":"Again, I'll emphasize these are just illustrated representations of potential"},{"t":11013,"text":"buildings, noting that a building proposal with a development permit"},{"t":11016,"text":"is not actually before council today. To provide a scent"},{"t":11020,"text":"of the proposed massing, the next few slides illustrate the"},{"t":11023,"text":"building envelopes, which provide a better indication of what council"},{"t":11026,"text":"is considering instead of a specific building design. PENTE! This"},{"t":11030,"text":"first slide represents the existing building site. And this is"},{"t":11034,"text":"the proposal. And as you can see, five new building"},{"t":11037,"text":"locations are proposed. Immediately behind the cathedral is a 12"},{"t":11041,"text":"- story building, then along Birdette Avenue, we have a"},{"t":11044,"text":"four - story amenity building proposed within the Heritage Landscape"},{"t":11047,"text":"of the site, which is currently a parking lot. Then"},{"t":11050,"text":"an 8 Store building envelope is proposed to the south"},{"t":11053,"text":"of the proposed 12 - Story building. And then a"},{"t":11055,"text":"mid - block location, um, and then at the mid"},{"t":11057,"text":"- block location, the majority of density is proposed to"},{"t":11060,"text":"be within an 18 - story building. And flanking that"},{"t":11063,"text":"to the east is another 8 - Story building. The"},{"t":11066,"text":"proposal is for all the buildings to be market strata"},{"t":11068,"text":"residential, and then commercially uses within the 4 - story"},{"t":11072,"text":"amenity building and within select ground floor locations. This slide"},{"t":11077,"text":"shows the actual proposed heights. And so what's intended to"},{"t":11080,"text":"be demonstrated here is that typically the City Vision would"},{"t":11082,"text":"seek to promote buildings to be no taller than the"},{"t":11085,"text":"height of the Cathedral Towers, which are roughly 38 metres."},{"t":11089,"text":"The 12 - story building behind the tower is proposed"},{"t":11091,"text":"to be at 39 metres, which would limit its visibility"},{"t":11094,"text":"behind the church. And although the proposed 18 story building"},{"t":11098,"text":"is at 54 metres, it is proposed at a location"},{"t":11101,"text":"that is the least impactful to the Heritage Assets on"},{"t":11104,"text":"the site and the surrounding neighbourhood context. And I just"},{"t":11108,"text":"wanted to provide this slide to illustrate sort of the"},{"t":11110,"text":"flexibility within the OCP and in terms of how it's"},{"t":11113,"text":"being used. And so it shows sort of three versions"},{"t":11115,"text":"of a potential proposal. The image in the top left"},{"t":11118,"text":"shows a stringent interpretation of city policies. It includes the"},{"t":11122,"text":"retention of the DNARY building, um, on the site highlighted"},{"t":11126,"text":"in yellow, and building heights up to six to seven"},{"t":11129,"text":"stories. The bottom image represents an early iteration of the"},{"t":11133,"text":"proposal that saw the majority of density placed directly behind"},{"t":11136,"text":"the cathedral within a 25 - story building. And with"},{"t":11139,"text":"another 18 - story building proposed at the edge of"},{"t":11141,"text":"the site, on the corner of Vancouver and Bradette Street."},{"t":11144,"text":"And then in the right - hand shows the current"},{"t":11147,"text":"proposals distribution of density, which preserves key views to the"},{"t":11150,"text":"cathedral from Courtney Street, while also transitioning building heights to"},{"t":11154,"text":"the surrounding residential areas of the city to the east."},{"t":11160,"text":"The Heritage Landmark policies also apply to this site, and"},{"t":11163,"text":"so the Cathedral is one of 13 heritage landmark buildings"},{"t":11166,"text":"in the city. These buildings are noted for their prominence"},{"t":11170,"text":"as visual landmarks within local streetscapes, their ability to be"},{"t":11173,"text":"commonly recognised and memorable, and for their overall contribution to"},{"t":11176,"text":"the public realm. The related policies aim to ensure that"},{"t":11180,"text":"the height, setbacks, sighting, and overall massing of proposed new"},{"t":11184,"text":"buildings does not detract from or obscure the visual prominence"},{"t":11188,"text":"and character - defining importance of these landmark buildings. Christ"},{"t":11193,"text":"- church cathedrals also one of seven heritage landmark buildings,"},{"t":11195,"text":"that is within a protected view terminus, meaning that the"},{"t":11199,"text":"view of the cathedral defined the end of Courtney Street"},{"t":11202,"text":"and does so to be prominent within the urban fabric"},{"t":11204,"text":"of the city. And so this slide sort of illustrates"},{"t":11208,"text":"that terminated Vista condition. And you can see the outline"},{"t":11211,"text":"of the proposed building locations, which have been located where"},{"t":11213,"text":"they maintain the prominence of the cathedral within this view."},{"t":11216,"text":"Oh, I think that's the slide. There we go. So"},{"t":11218,"text":"this is sort of that view terminus of Courtney Street."},{"t":11221,"text":"And then there's a light white outline in the right"},{"t":11222,"text":"- hand image that shows the outline of the proposed"},{"t":11225,"text":"buildings. Um, I'll also mention that this junction that there"},{"t":11229,"text":"is an alternative motion in the report to Council. That"},{"t":11232,"text":"alternative motion caps the building height across the site at"},{"t":11235,"text":"12 stories. What this achieves is an improved relationship with"},{"t":11238,"text":"the Heritage buildings on site. And with the surrounding context,"},{"t":11241,"text":"without affecting the proposed density. This slide incense makes that"},{"t":11245,"text":"point. And applicant could still apply for a height variance"},{"t":11248,"text":"when a development permit comes in and should Council wish"},{"t":11251,"text":"the alternative motion would permit the review of a proposed"},{"t":11253,"text":"height variance in relation to an actual building design as"},{"t":11256,"text":"opposed to outright granting the height allowance requested within the"},{"t":11259,"text":"proposed building. I'll just sort of walk through the next"},{"t":11262,"text":"few slides in terms of, um, that view analysis for"},{"t":11265,"text":"how the application sits within, um, that framework of the"},{"t":11270,"text":"Heritage Landmark radius. And so, um, this slide obviously looks"},{"t":11274,"text":"at that view terminus on, um, Courtney Street. And you"},{"t":11277,"text":"can see from further back, it's the 18 story would"},{"t":11280,"text":"actually be visible in this view. But I think this"},{"t":11282,"text":"does a bit of a disservice to how that may"},{"t":11284,"text":"be interpreted because I think the human eye can actually"},{"t":11286,"text":"assess depth a little bit more than what's shown here."},{"t":11289,"text":"But what is maintained is that the prominence of the"},{"t":11291,"text":"cathedral in this view. Um, this is sort of at"},{"t":11294,"text":"that corner of Vancouver and Rockland. And we're looking at"},{"t":11298,"text":"Memorial Hall. And again, we can see, um, some of"},{"t":11300,"text":"the relative impacts of the proposed building heights here. And"},{"t":11304,"text":"then sort of looking further afield, there's a small key"},{"t":11306,"text":"at the bottom there where we're kind of looking at"},{"t":11309,"text":"the site from, um, uh, sort of the intersections of,"},{"t":11313,"text":"you know, Vancouver and Burdette, but a little bit further"},{"t":11315,"text":"down the hill. And then again, at the corner of,"},{"t":11318,"text":"um, pioneer square park. So I'll just turn it back"},{"t":11322,"text":"over to, uh, Ms. Steveno. Through the mirror. Uh,"},{"t":11332,"text":"through this rezoning application, there are proposed alterations such as"},{"t":11337,"text":"a partial demolition and additions to the heritage site. These"},{"t":11340,"text":"need to be determined at this stage of rezoning to"},{"t":11343,"text":"allow for the added density to the site. Although there"},{"t":11346,"text":"is no alteration heritage alteration permit at this time, um,"},{"t":11349,"text":"the alterations proposed are supportable. The application proposes to add"},{"t":11355,"text":"a four story building to the Heritage designated open space"},{"t":11359,"text":"currently a parking lot just south of the Cathedral. And"},{"t":11362,"text":"to create more space on the site for new infill"},{"t":11364,"text":"development, they proposed to relocate the Heritage Registered Denery to"},{"t":11368,"text":"an off - site location. At Memorial Hall, they are"},{"t":11372,"text":"requesting to partially demolish and reconfigure the West End side"},{"t":11376,"text":"of the Cathedral School to make room for a 12"},{"t":11379,"text":"- story tower. They also proposed to remove non -"},{"t":11382,"text":"heritage additions such as the Cathedral schools portable and later"},{"t":11386,"text":"additions to the Eurochapel. Ideally, the Deanry would be adoptively"},{"t":11391,"text":"reused on - site, either Institute or Relocated elsewhere on"},{"t":11394,"text":"the precinct site. However, relocation offsite is supported in the"},{"t":11398,"text":"rezoning and development policy. The other proposed additions, especially the"},{"t":11406,"text":"residential towers, are challenging in this historic context and from"},{"t":11409,"text":"a heritage conservation perspective. The City of Victoria's Heritage Conservation"},{"t":11414,"text":"Policy, the standards and guidelines for the conservation of historic"},{"t":11417,"text":"places in Canada, state that a new use should be"},{"t":11420,"text":"compatible with the historic property and have little to no"},{"t":11422,"text":"impact on the heritage value of the place. There is"},{"t":11425,"text":"no question that this proposal will be impactful. It will"},{"t":11429,"text":"provide housing, which will benefit the city, which will then"},{"t":11432,"text":"provide the means to conserve and upgrade the heritage assets"},{"t":11435,"text":"to extend their physical life for future generations. Other policy"},{"t":11439,"text":"states that new development should be balanced with heritage conservation,"},{"t":11443,"text":"and this proposal would not be supportable without the commitment"},{"t":11446,"text":"to Heritage Conservation and the various upgrades to their associated"},{"t":11450,"text":"phases of development. The site and the four buildings contained"},{"t":11455,"text":"within it our heritage assets for the Anglican Diocese and"},{"t":11459,"text":"the City. These buildings and their interstitial spaces between create"},{"t":11462,"text":"a setting valued by the community who experienced them. Over"},{"t":11466,"text":"time, they have given this area of the city or"},{"t":11468,"text":"neighbourhood a sense of place. People who visit the cathedral"},{"t":11472,"text":"or pass by daily or weekly have come to know"},{"t":11475,"text":"this place and it is one of the many micro"},{"t":11478,"text":"experiences that define their identity of the city. Individually and"},{"t":11482,"text":"as a collection, they are significant historically, spiritually, and culturally"},{"t":11487,"text":"and important to the community for diverse reasons. By adding"},{"t":11490,"text":"this much density to this specific site, we could lose"},{"t":11493,"text":"this micro experience, which would be a loss for those"},{"t":11495,"text":"that use in a frequent this place and could in"},{"t":11498,"text":"fact diminish the identity of this part of the city"},{"t":11501,"text":"and the heritage assets that we are trying to conserve"},{"t":11503,"text":"and protect. And so I'll just looking at the proposal"},{"t":11512,"text":"in a bit more detail, just a few more slides."},{"t":11514,"text":"Um, this is the proposed site plan. And so because"},{"t":11517,"text":"this application is not associated with the DP, Council should"},{"t":11520,"text":"be aware that the site plan is more illustrative than"},{"t":11523,"text":"a definitive proposal. But what it does is define is"},{"t":11526,"text":"the location of the building footprint relative setbacks and building"},{"t":11531,"text":"separation distances, uh, and these aspects would be further defined"},{"t":11534,"text":"within a set of specific design guidelines that recommended motion"},{"t":11538,"text":"makes mention of. Additionally, the mid - block crossing between"},{"t":11542,"text":"Burdet and Rockland would be secured as part of this"},{"t":11544,"text":"rezoning, as shown in this plan going north - south."},{"t":11548,"text":"And as is becoming more typical, a three metre setback"},{"t":11551,"text":"from the property line would also be secured to help"},{"t":11553,"text":"retain street trees even when underground parking may be proposed"},{"t":11557,"text":"in the future. These aspects of the design would all"},{"t":11560,"text":"be secured within a master development agreement. A similarly, frontage"},{"t":11565,"text":"improvements that are in addition to the standard works and"},{"t":11568,"text":"services by - law would be secured in the MDA."},{"t":11571,"text":"And this slide illustrates broadly, uh, what those frontage improvements"},{"t":11574,"text":"would be. They include new pedestrian crossings with flashings, flashing"},{"t":11579,"text":"beacons, uh, sidewalk ball boats improvements to rockland avenue to"},{"t":11583,"text":"help create a plaza - like area, green stormwater infrastructure,"},{"t":11586,"text":"and a small plaza added to the verdet attitude per"},{"t":11589,"text":"debt avenue, uh, at, at the Vancouver intersection, along with"},{"t":11593,"text":"some roading changes to help address the anticipated increased traffic"},{"t":11596,"text":"volumes associated with this proposal. Running through the elevations, the"},{"t":11601,"text":"image on the top is looking west with bridette on"},{"t":11604,"text":"the left and Rockland on the right. And then the"},{"t":11607,"text":"below image is looking east with Rockland on the right"},{"t":11610,"text":"and burdet on the left. It is evident that the"},{"t":11612,"text":"proposed building forms are novel for the area. However, the"},{"t":11615,"text":"site size and adjacent parks helped to mediate that density."},{"t":11620,"text":"Uh, looking at the north and south elevations, again, we"},{"t":11622,"text":"can see how the proposed building envelopes relate to the"},{"t":11625,"text":"cathedral and the surrounding area. And then looking over at"},{"t":11629,"text":"some, uh, wider context elevations, we can get a sense"},{"t":11632,"text":"of how the proposal relates to the wider urban fabric"},{"t":11634,"text":"of the city. Uh, the next couple of slides just"},{"t":11638,"text":"provide some illustrative renderings of the proposal. Again, these are"},{"t":11641,"text":"not actual building proposals, but they do provide a sense"},{"t":11643,"text":"of how the proposed building heights and massing may be"},{"t":11646,"text":"experienced on the site. That's these two here. And then"},{"t":11650,"text":"finally, uh, this slide shows the proposed phasing, which would"},{"t":11653,"text":"be secured with the MDA. There are really only sort"},{"t":11656,"text":"of two main phases, and that would be the Q4"},{"t":11659,"text":"and Q2 identified here, or development area two and four."},{"t":11664,"text":"These development areas are associated with the majority of density"},{"t":11667,"text":"on site. And therefore, development in these areas, uh, the"},{"t":11671,"text":"triggers for heritage upgrades in front of improvements. There is"},{"t":11675,"text":"not a required sequence of development, and instead, any development"},{"t":11678,"text":"area could be commenced with, but as mentioned, the development"},{"t":11681,"text":"areas with the majority of density trigger those amenity contributions."},{"t":11686,"text":"And to conclude, Chrysler's Cathedral and its landscape are significant"},{"t":11690,"text":"heritage and community assets in Victoria. Given that the application"},{"t":11694,"text":"is for a rezoning only, establishing the density proposed building"},{"t":11697,"text":"heights and distribution of density along with the proposed new"},{"t":11700,"text":"uses are the primary considerations for council. As noted, expanding"},{"t":11705,"text":"the permitted land uses is consistent with the OCP. However,"},{"t":11708,"text":"the proposed density results in both positive and negative impacts"},{"t":11711,"text":"to the heritage value of the site and the surrounding"},{"t":11713,"text":"context. To offset this, the applicant has committed to Heritage's"},{"t":11717,"text":"restoration, uh, accessibility improvements in seismic upgrading of the three"},{"t":11721,"text":"remaining heritage designated buildings. Additionally, frontage improvements and a mid"},{"t":11725,"text":"- block crossing will improve the public realm in and"},{"t":11728,"text":"around the site. With these considerations in mind, it's recommended"},{"t":11731,"text":"that Council consider supporting the application. Into questions. Thank you"},{"t":11735,"text":"very much, all of you for your able contributions. Before"},{"t":11739,"text":"we consider the actual recommendation of staff, which I will"},{"t":11742,"text":"flag, I'm going to move at some point. We'll start"},{"t":11744,"text":"with questions. Questions Council Secured on a start. Thank you"},{"t":11749,"text":"very much. And through you to staff, this has been"},{"t":11752,"text":"a very fascinating one to read and consider. And I"},{"t":11754,"text":"appreciate all the work that's gone into it. I wanted"},{"t":11756,"text":"to start out by talking about why it is that"},{"t":11759,"text":"there's not in a company development permit. It's somewhat unusual"},{"t":11764,"text":"that we consider rezoning without a DP. It does happen"},{"t":11767,"text":"on occasion. But the challenge here is that we're not"},{"t":11772,"text":"able to have a direct conversation really about land tenure."},{"t":11776,"text":"Which complicates things. So my question is, why is this"},{"t":11779,"text":"being pursued in isolation of a DP. Mr. Patanzo? Sure."},{"t":11784,"text":"Through the mayor, thanks for that question. So maybe I'll"},{"t":11787,"text":"just outline a few things. So an applicant is free"},{"t":11790,"text":"to, uh, submit just to rezoning application or a rezoning"},{"t":11793,"text":"with a concurrent development permit. Um, that's at their discretion."},{"t":11797,"text":"And the multitude of reasons why they may or may"},{"t":11799,"text":"not do that. Uh, often it has to do with"},{"t":11801,"text":"the upfront investment and actually creating a development permit application."},{"t":11805,"text":"Um, in distance, I think that would be the case"},{"t":11809,"text":"where, um, the applicant, the diocese itself is sort of,"},{"t":11813,"text":"um, taking an approach, uh, sort of a slow approach"},{"t":11815,"text":"to this proposal where they're trying to secure many respects"},{"t":11819,"text":"kind of baby steps towards an overall vision, not having"},{"t":11822,"text":"to partnerships with them at present to actually put forward"},{"t":11826,"text":"a building proposal. The other aspect of your questions about"},{"t":11829,"text":"securing the tenure, that is a consideration at this point"},{"t":11832,"text":"in time as well, where Council can make a motion"},{"t":11835,"text":"to that effect. And typically that's something that's recommended with"},{"t":11838,"text":"a rezoning. Um, and so if that's something Council should"},{"t":11842,"text":"wish to explore, this is the time to have that"},{"t":11844,"text":"discussion as well. Thanks. Uh, I note that the seismic"},{"t":11848,"text":"upgrades come up quite a bit in the staff recommendation."},{"t":11851,"text":"And as part of the legal agreement consideration, this one"},{"t":11854,"text":"is complicated and unusual because ordinarily, if we have a"},{"t":11856,"text":"rezoning that doesn't involve a DP, we don't usually have"},{"t":11859,"text":"a conversation about land tenure or what the relationships are"},{"t":11864,"text":"between the rezoning and the future land use. It's just"},{"t":11868,"text":"more conceptual and abstract. I'm thinking of the one that"},{"t":11870,"text":"we did for Laurel point in, for instance, which was"},{"t":11872,"text":"just a rezoning without a DP. But in this one,"},{"t":11875,"text":"the diocese has made it pretty clear that the intention"},{"t":11878,"text":"here is to pursue seismic upgrades. Do we have a"},{"t":11881,"text":"sense of what the rough cost is of the seismic"},{"t":11885,"text":"upgrades required to the Cathedral and the other heritage assets."},{"t":11891,"text":"That being said, Ms. Steveno. Through the Maron, thank you"},{"t":11896,"text":"for the question. Um, I have reviewed a report by"},{"t":11902,"text":"RJC, the consultant that they had retained. Um, and they"},{"t":11906,"text":"provided a probable cost, um, based on a 2023 seismic"},{"t":11912,"text":"upgrade schematic design report. And it was roughly around, um."},{"t":11920,"text":"I think around 15 million to seismically upgrade all three"},{"t":11924,"text":"buildings. Okay. And sorry. I just wanted to also make"},{"t":11928,"text":"the distinction that the extent of seismic upgrading that's likely"},{"t":11933,"text":"being proposed would be potentially not everything that would be"},{"t":11936,"text":"included in that report, but rather, uh, commeasured amount of"},{"t":11941,"text":"seismic upgrading to the density being proposed on site, which"},{"t":11944,"text":"is still to be established. Okay. And that's important one."},{"t":11947,"text":"It's, it's my presumption. I'm just going to state it"},{"t":11949,"text":"as a statement and a staff. I want to respond"},{"t":11951,"text":"to it. Grade. And if you don't feel like it's"},{"t":11952,"text":"appropriate, then don't have to. But my presumption is that"},{"t":11955,"text":"they would pursue stratified buildings because stratified buildings have the"},{"t":11959,"text":"potential to have a relatively large upfront cash out, pay"},{"t":11963,"text":"out. They could be then moved into the seismic upgrades."},{"t":11965,"text":"They need to generate 15 million dollars from somewhere. Based"},{"t":11968,"text":"on everything I've learned in the last four years, market"},{"t":11970,"text":"rental, let alone non - market rental don't generate that"},{"t":11973,"text":"kind of revenue. If those are long - term play,"},{"t":11976,"text":"well, non - market doesn't generate any revenue whatsoever. But"},{"t":11978,"text":"market rental takes years and years to generate wealth. Is"},{"t":11981,"text":"it fair for us to assume that the land tenure"},{"t":11984,"text":"is likely to be condos or stratified at this site?"},{"t":11987,"text":"Mr. Tanzo? Uh, so through the mayor, the proposal is"},{"t":11990,"text":"for condos at the moment. Um, obviously we've had the"},{"t":11993,"text":"discussions with the applicant about securing affordable housing and all"},{"t":11996,"text":"of the other ambitions that are outlined in the OCP."},{"t":11999,"text":"But at this point in time, without a development partner,"},{"t":12002,"text":"the applicant was uncomfortable with, um, going ahead and trying"},{"t":12005,"text":"to secure those aspects of the proposal. So what's before"},{"t":12008,"text":"council today is, uh, the 10 years being considered and"},{"t":12012,"text":"what's being proposed is, uh, market residential condominiums. Okay. That"},{"t":12017,"text":"didn't quite jump out at me. So thanks, clarification. I'm"},{"t":12019,"text":"going to ask you just to speculate here a little"},{"t":12020,"text":"bit, but can you fathom a scenario in which the"},{"t":12024,"text":"applicant changes their minds and pursues market rental. Or a"},{"t":12029,"text":"mixture of market rental and non - market rental in"},{"t":12031,"text":"a way that would generate 15 million dollars of profit"},{"t":12034,"text":"to do seismic upgrades. Chutezo through the mayor, I'll hazard"},{"t":12040,"text":"a response here. And really, I think it's the ambition"},{"t":12043,"text":"of the applicant to go down that route. Um, I"},{"t":12046,"text":"think it's worth noting that the church in and of"},{"t":12049,"text":"itself has been a community asset with community ambitions and"},{"t":12052,"text":"goals throughout its life. Um, uh, they've identified within their,"},{"t":12056,"text":"their notes to council and as part of the application"},{"t":12058,"text":"that is part of their ambition. Uh, whether or not"},{"t":12061,"text":"the economics make sense at some point in time. I"},{"t":12063,"text":"really can't comment too. Thanks. That's fair. I'll shift gears"},{"t":12066,"text":"and talk about something else. So, um, will there be"},{"t":12069,"text":"a land left analysis on this site. So through the"},{"t":12073,"text":"mayor at present, that is not considered. And I'm trying"},{"t":12077,"text":"to remember if it's required. I thought, I seemed to"},{"t":12080,"text":"recall that our regulations require landlift analysis, but that we"},{"t":12083,"text":"waived that for market rental, but not for strata. I"},{"t":12087,"text":"swear that that's a rule we have. No, so through"},{"t":12090,"text":"the merit, it's sort of at the discretion of staff"},{"t":12093,"text":"on the application. In many respects, um, carrying out a"},{"t":12097,"text":"landlift analysis, uh, sometimes provides the benefit of giving some"},{"t":12101,"text":"indication of what kind of amenities could be provided. It's"},{"t":12105,"text":"somewhat inappropriate to do that at just a rezoning because"},{"t":12109,"text":"we don't know when an actual application may come forward."},{"t":12112,"text":"Uh, so it's a bit of a hard one to"},{"t":12114,"text":"fathom without an actual application coming in at the same"},{"t":12117,"text":"time. That's fair. But the, the problem I'm having is"},{"t":12119,"text":"that the baseline assumption here is that these are Shotified"},{"t":12122,"text":"buildings. Even though this is not a DP. So we're"},{"t":12125,"text":"in a little bit of a grey area where like"},{"t":12127,"text":"the baseline assumption is these are going to be condos"},{"t":12129,"text":"someday, which for me is fine. Cause I want them"},{"t":12132,"text":"to be able to do the seismic upgrades. But. I'm"},{"t":12136,"text":"still unclear about whether or not in our decision making,"},{"t":12138,"text":"we should be presuming that this is a stratified development."},{"t":12141,"text":"Because if it is, I'd like to have a conversation"},{"t":12142,"text":"about amenity contributions. But that is maybe not an appropriate"},{"t":12146,"text":"discussion now. Maybe that's a discussion for a DP stage."},{"t":12149,"text":"And yet we're making an assumption right now that these"},{"t":12151,"text":"are stratified buildings. So do you understand the bind we're"},{"t":12153,"text":"in here a little bit. Mr. Townsend? Yeah. Thanks. And"},{"t":12156,"text":"through the mayor. So what I will say is that"},{"t":12158,"text":"it's not a presumption in terms of council's consideration what"},{"t":12161,"text":"the tenure is of the buildings. What's being proposed before"},{"t":12164,"text":"council today is, um, stratified condominiums. Um, if it were"},{"t":12168,"text":"anything other than that, that would be form part of"},{"t":12171,"text":"the motion where they would be a commitment to secure"},{"t":12173,"text":"aspects of affordability. The applicant has been reluctant to do"},{"t":12178,"text":"that because they are not coming forward with an actual"},{"t":12180,"text":"application as well. And so it's, and so they may"},{"t":12183,"text":"have those ambitions, but unless it's something being secured, the"},{"t":12187,"text":"presentation to Council considers that not part of this proposal."},{"t":12192,"text":"Um, and then in terms of the other part of"},{"t":12195,"text":"your question to, to seek an amenity contribution of a"},{"t":12200,"text":"particular value, the key amenity contribution being secured here are"},{"t":12204,"text":"the heritage upgrades. And so it is, you know, uh,"},{"t":12209,"text":"the obligation of staff to go and consider the extent"},{"t":12212,"text":"of what those heritage upgrades would be as part of"},{"t":12214,"text":"the conversation when we get into the master development agreement."},{"t":12216,"text":"We have an outline of a menu of heritage improvements"},{"t":12220,"text":"in seismic upgrading. That would form, uh, commeasure at level"},{"t":12224,"text":"of, of, uh, amenity contribution considering the density being proposed."},{"t":12229,"text":"Okay. So just to clarify, if a Venice said correctly"},{"t":12231,"text":"that assuming this does end up as the stratified building,"},{"t":12235,"text":"which are buildings, which is the baseline assumption now staff"},{"t":12238,"text":"would consider the seismic upgrades themselves to be an amenity"},{"t":12242,"text":"contribution. Does that not run afoul of the new ACC"},{"t":12246,"text":"legislation though where we have a bit less discretion about"},{"t":12249,"text":"where we apply amenity contributions. So to the mayor, I'm"},{"t":12254,"text":"looking at my director or acting director, shaking his head."},{"t":12257,"text":"And I don't believe that's the case. Mr. Johnston. Uh,"},{"t":12263,"text":"thank you. Uh, through the mayor, this being an in"},{"t":12266,"text":"- stream application would actually also be exempt from our"},{"t":12269,"text":"amenity cost charges bylaw. And so that legislation wouldn't apply"},{"t":12272,"text":"to this particular proposal. That's great. If it were not"},{"t":12276,"text":"exempted, I would presume it would be a challenge though,"},{"t":12278,"text":"because my reading of the ACCs is that the monies"},{"t":12280,"text":"can either go towards parks or community centres. This is"},{"t":12283,"text":"neither park nor community centre. Mr. Patazon. I'm just going"},{"t":12290,"text":"off the cuff a little bit here, but I think"},{"t":12291,"text":"there's some discretion there that if there's a voluntary amenity"},{"t":12294,"text":"contribution as part of an application that there can be"},{"t":12298,"text":"some, um, wiggle room within that interpretation. If it's voluntary."},{"t":12303,"text":"Voluntary in terms of significant heritage upgrades, yes. Through the"},{"t":12307,"text":"mayor, would it be appropriate. Today potentially to amend this"},{"t":12311,"text":"direction or would this, that would be something that would"},{"t":12313,"text":"happen at the DP stage to clarify council's position that"},{"t":12317,"text":"the seismic upgrades would be a valid usage of potential"},{"t":12323,"text":"future amenity contributions coming from a stratified development. Mr. Patanza?"},{"t":12329,"text":"Sorry. Can you repeat the question. Let's just assume for"},{"t":12332,"text":"a minute that it is the council's will to demon"},{"t":12336,"text":"acceptable. On the assumption that this becomes a stratified development."},{"t":12341,"text":"To use what would be the ACCs or the CACs"},{"t":12344,"text":"coming from that towards the seismic upgrades. Would that be"},{"t":12348,"text":"appropriate to do as part of this rezoning and legal"},{"t":12350,"text":"agreement work that we're working on today? Or would that"},{"t":12353,"text":"be something that would not be considered until a DP"},{"t":12355,"text":"stage? Yeah. So through the mirror, that is your what"},{"t":12357,"text":"is being considered today. Okay. I'll keep that in mind"},{"t":12360,"text":"later on when this is on the floor. I want"},{"t":12361,"text":"to move forward though and talk about. What happened with"},{"t":12365,"text":"advisory design panel and the Heritage Advisory panel. I gather"},{"t":12371,"text":"that ADP was supportive, although I'm a little bit unclear"},{"t":12375,"text":"about which version they looked at. If you could clarify."},{"t":12379,"text":"Any comments you have on HAP and the comments about"},{"t":12385,"text":"them waiting to see the revised design guidelines. I'm a"},{"t":12389,"text":"little bit unclear why we didn't just wait for that"},{"t":12392,"text":"to happen before things came to counsel because we're now"},{"t":12395,"text":"in a position to wonder what the Heritage Advisory Panel"},{"t":12398,"text":"might have thought about this proposal. So can you clarify?"},{"t":12402,"text":"Sure. Thank you. Through the mayor. So in terms of"},{"t":12404,"text":"the advisory design panel, the version that the advisor design"},{"t":12408,"text":"panel saw is the same version that's before council today."},{"t":12411,"text":"Uh, it's with the 12, 18, 28 and one 4"},{"t":12413,"text":"story building. Uh, the advisory design panels recommendations are outlined"},{"t":12417,"text":"in the report. Um, they had recommended, um, some additional"},{"t":12421,"text":"height to the 18 story building to move away from,"},{"t":12425,"text":"you know, what you can see when you look at"},{"t":12426,"text":"that view corridor down Courtney Street is kind of a"},{"t":12429,"text":"consistent building line, which from their perspective obscured the prominence"},{"t":12433,"text":"of the cathedral and then reducing the eight story buildings"},{"t":12437,"text":"to sick story buildings to fit with that aprohord context"},{"t":12439,"text":"a bit more. In terms of, um, and I'll just"},{"t":12442,"text":"speak briefly to the Heritage Advisory panel. So I think"},{"t":12445,"text":"that the and Ms. Steven O can fill on the"},{"t":12448,"text":"blanks here, but I believe that one of the comments"},{"t":12450,"text":"was that the, um, the design of the buildings was"},{"t":12456,"text":"significant consideration for the Heritage Advisory panel. And so because"},{"t":12459,"text":"there is not a concurrent development permit with this, we"},{"t":12462,"text":"don't know what the design of the buildings would be."},{"t":12465,"text":"And so what we're trying to secure is a high"},{"t":12467,"text":"level of design. And so there are some design guidelines"},{"t":12470,"text":"that are required for us to do that. But those"},{"t":12473,"text":"design guidelines have not been completed and they're actually in"},{"t":12476,"text":"the motion before council for the applicant to complete those"},{"t":12479,"text":"design guidelines prior to coming forward with, uh, for second"},{"t":12482,"text":"reading of the bylaw. And a lot of the reason"},{"t":12484,"text":"for that was, um, just a significant sort of pressure"},{"t":12487,"text":"to get this before the Committee of the Whole to"},{"t":12490,"text":"get a temperature check on the application. Okay. Thank you"},{"t":12493,"text":"for that. I mean, trying to frame this in a"},{"t":12496,"text":"way that doesn't put you in an awkward position, but"},{"t":12497,"text":"is this. How do I, wouldn't it be better if"},{"t":12502,"text":"development permits and Rezonies come together at the same time"},{"t":12505,"text":"so that we don't have to be left with these."},{"t":12507,"text":"I know that's, that's just a comment, but I'm just"},{"t":12509,"text":"going to put it out there if you want to"},{"t":12510,"text":"respond to it because it creates awkwardness for us. Uh,"},{"t":12512,"text":"easy, easy question. Thank you through the mayor. Uh, yes,"},{"t":12515,"text":"absolutely. It's something that the city is encouraged for long"},{"t":12517,"text":"period of time, but it's not something that's always, um,"},{"t":12520,"text":"reasonable to expect with the variety of applications that come"},{"t":12522,"text":"forward. Okay. One last question for me. Are we worried"},{"t":12525,"text":"about future blasting affecting the foundation of the cathedral? We"},{"t":12531,"text":"saw that not that long ago in new west where"},{"t":12534,"text":"the new rec centre messed up the foundation of the"},{"t":12536,"text":"existing Brext Centre next door. And obviously the other examples."},{"t":12540,"text":"Are we worried about that. Steven O. Through the mayor."},{"t":12547,"text":"I mean, I can comment that yes, it is a"},{"t":12549,"text":"concern. Um, but I guess it would be the, it"},{"t":12554,"text":"would be up to the construction manager to, um, protect"},{"t":12559,"text":"those buildings. Um, I don't know what more I could"},{"t":12562,"text":"say. I mean, through the mayor as well. I mean,"},{"t":12564,"text":"the development of the site is also the developer is"},{"t":12568,"text":"also the diestes. And so it's in their interest to,"},{"t":12571,"text":"you know, maintain their buildings. Um, but with every form"},{"t":12575,"text":"of construction, you have blasting is a consideration, but those"},{"t":12578,"text":"are the liabilities that, uh, contractor takes on when they"},{"t":12581,"text":"care about this work. Okay. Uh, it sounds like, go"},{"t":12586,"text":"ahead. Mr. Johnson. Thank you through the mayor. I just"},{"t":12589,"text":"wanted to add on to an earlier question about, um,"},{"t":12593,"text":"rezonings and, uh, rezoning and concurrent development permits. And just"},{"t":12597,"text":"to note that it is something we often see is"},{"t":12601,"text":"standalone rezoning applications on larger master plan sites that where"},{"t":12606,"text":"development is intended to come in phases. Whereas development of"},{"t":12609,"text":"a standalone site, um, without phasing, uh, then we would"},{"t":12613,"text":"more typically see a rezoning concurrent development permit. So the"},{"t":12617,"text":"number of other large sites in the city that have"},{"t":12620,"text":"recently gone through standalone rezonings and we're anticipating those DPs"},{"t":12623,"text":"will follow in the future. Thanks. Thanks, Mayor. Councillor Gardner."},{"t":12629,"text":"Yep. You're next. You don't have to. I thought you"},{"t":12633,"text":"had. Something."},{"t":12645,"text":"Well, I understand that the property is within decap, the"},{"t":12648,"text":"downtown core area plan. In what neighbourhood is the cathedral"},{"t":12651,"text":"property located. Through the mayor. So it is in"},{"t":12661,"text":"downtown. And that was part of the downtown core area"},{"t":12664,"text":"plan amendment of 2021, 2022 with a downtown neighbourhood boundaries"},{"t":12670,"text":"expanded to include this site along with some other portions"},{"t":12674,"text":"of neighbouring neighbourhoods. So at present, it is considered within"},{"t":12679,"text":"the downtown. PON. Huh. Okay. The COM, the COLIC discussion"},{"t":12687,"text":"was in Fairfield, not downtown. Is that correct? Through the"},{"t":12691,"text":"mayor, that is correct. Mr. Johnston. Thank you, Mayor. Uh,"},{"t":12698,"text":"I just wanted to clarify because it, it does get"},{"t":12700,"text":"a little complicated when we have overlapping plan boundaries and"},{"t":12705,"text":"at neighbourhood boundaries. And there have been some changes in"},{"t":12707,"text":"the past few years, uh, related to neighbourhood boundaries and"},{"t":12710,"text":"not just planned boundaries. Um, but just to clarify, uh,"},{"t":12714,"text":"this site is actually in the Fairfield neighbourhood. Although it"},{"t":12717,"text":"is also covered within the downtown core area plan. Thank"},{"t":12720,"text":"you. That's what I started out saying. And therefore, just"},{"t":12726,"text":"the opposite. Okay. Phew. So, um, in 2023 Fairfield was"},{"t":12734,"text":"still the neighbourhood. Thank you. Now were there any boundary"},{"t":12740,"text":"changes around this property in OCP 2050. The new Officer"},{"t":12747,"text":"Community Plan. Striptowns O. Do you know that? Off the"},{"t":12750,"text":"top of your head. So I think through the mayor,"},{"t":12755,"text":"the fact that it was in Fairfield was somewhat of"},{"t":12757,"text":"a surprise given, uh, that the downtown courier plan design"},{"t":12761,"text":"guidelines applied. But there are per our acting director's comments,"},{"t":12766,"text":"some grey areas with these parcels that border two different"},{"t":12769,"text":"boundaries. I don't believe the boundaries changed into twenty five"},{"t":12775,"text":"update to the OCP. Is that your understanding, too? Thank"},{"t":12783,"text":"you through the mayor. The neighbourhood boundary did not change."},{"t":12787,"text":"The plan boundary changed and the policies and design guidelines"},{"t":12790,"text":"that applied changed along with that. Thank you. No, I'm"},{"t":12794,"text":"quite familiar with DCAP overlapping another neighbourhood since a lot"},{"t":12798,"text":"of Jamie Spa is handicapped. So I get that. Okay."},{"t":12806,"text":"So in 2023, what proportion the community meeting notices went"},{"t":12810,"text":"out to Fairfield Residence and how many to downtown residents."},{"t":12814,"text":"Mr. Council. So to the mayor, I can't comment on"},{"t":12817,"text":"the exact proportion, but those notices are mailed within a"},{"t":12821,"text":"hundred metre radius. And so that 100 metre metre radius"},{"t":12823,"text":"would sort of presumably split the proportion of notifications between"},{"t":12828,"text":"both neighbourhoods. Okay. I was hoping someone might have the"},{"t":12833,"text":"answer because I know I gave some notice that I'd"},{"t":12836,"text":"be asking that one. Okay. Um, for an unknown reason"},{"t":12839,"text":"for me, I just don't get it. But anyway, the"},{"t":12842,"text":"Fairfield Calloc made the decision in January to forego a"},{"t":12846,"text":"community meeting on this development, January of this year, I"},{"t":12849,"text":"believe. Um, this decision would also have affected residence from"},{"t":12853,"text":"outside Fairfield. So, and we have seen in some of"},{"t":12857,"text":"the, we have over, well, it's close to 200 responses"},{"t":12860,"text":"on this one. Some people saying, please let us know"},{"t":12863,"text":"when it's coming back. For consideration. So was there any"},{"t":12869,"text":"city communication with these residents from beyond Fairfield who participated"},{"t":12875,"text":"in the first meeting, but were not considered for this,"},{"t":12880,"text":"for what we see before us today. So through the"},{"t":12883,"text":"mayor, the initial caliq meeting occurred in 2023. And then"},{"t":12887,"text":"when an additional Calloc meeting is triggered when significant changes"},{"t":12891,"text":"are proposed. And so those that second caliq meeting was"},{"t":12895,"text":"triggered in January of this year. And the PUR, our"},{"t":12901,"text":"lane use procedures bylaw, um, the CALC has the right"},{"t":12905,"text":"to waive that meeting, which they exercised when they were"},{"t":12909,"text":"reached out to. But I can't comment on whom within"},{"t":12912,"text":"the CALAC, um, participated in that decision. Okay. Um, in"},{"t":12916,"text":"2023, I attended an open house event at the catheter."},{"t":12919,"text":"If you get a glimpse of the proposed development, they"},{"t":12921,"text":"had a few open houses. This was not the CALIC"},{"t":12923,"text":"meeting. The project before today is not what I saw"},{"t":12926,"text":"that day. It is significantly difference in although the word"},{"t":12930,"text":"changes is used. It was very significantly different. And the"},{"t":12935,"text":"over 100 comments in today's information package that we have"},{"t":12939,"text":"are from really from 2023, which means they're all updated."},{"t":12944,"text":"And has there been any public notice or any public"},{"t":12946,"text":"meeting to review the proposal before us aside from, we"},{"t":12950,"text":"read and saw, um, through the media, the Times colonists"},{"t":12954,"text":"and TV stations has a public, aside from that, been"},{"t":12958,"text":"actually introduced to this project as it stands today. Mr."},{"t":12963,"text":"Townzone or Mr. Johnson? So through the mayor, I can"},{"t":12965,"text":"comment that the development tracker is updated throughout the application"},{"t":12968,"text":"process. And that's an avenue for, uh, community to view"},{"t":12972,"text":"the application. And then the CALAC would have received notice"},{"t":12975,"text":"that the application has changed in the iterations that have"},{"t":12978,"text":"come into the city, uh, but beyond that, an official"},{"t":12981,"text":"notification process has not been triggered. Thank you. And I"},{"t":12985,"text":"understand of, okay, soy. Go ahead. Thank you. Through the"},{"t":12989,"text":"mayor just to add one thing. Uh, there's also signage"},{"t":12991,"text":"that's put up on site and was updated to inform"},{"t":12995,"text":"the public of this step in the process and also"},{"t":12998,"text":"to direct them to the development tracker to find out"},{"t":13000,"text":"more information. PENT Yes, I truly understand that, but I"},{"t":13004,"text":"understand people don't look at the organ tracker unless you"},{"t":13006,"text":"have a reason to look. Uh, and I think that"},{"t":13008,"text":"the Times Columnist article, thank goodness they did it was"},{"t":13012,"text":"a real shocker for a lot of people. Anyway, Onward"},{"t":13014,"text":"Hole. When I visited the open house in 2023, remember"},{"t":13020,"text":"this was an open house that wasn't the Caleb. It"},{"t":13022,"text":"was apparent to me that the congregation at the time"},{"t":13024,"text":"was not on side with thee proposal. And I felt"},{"t":13028,"text":"the diocese had a lot of work to do with"},{"t":13030,"text":"their own congregation. And a lot of that was due"},{"t":13032,"text":"to the school. And so I understood that. But that"},{"t":13036,"text":"was three years ago. So there's nothing in the report"},{"t":13039,"text":"suggesting that anything has changed. So just staff know if"},{"t":13042,"text":"the congregation or if anyone else is supportive of this"},{"t":13046,"text":"project. Mr. Patenzo. So through the mayor, some of that"},{"t":13053,"text":"correspondence staff receive and forward to, uh, legislative services to"},{"t":13057,"text":"form part of the package that's before counsel today. Um,"},{"t":13062,"text":"but in many respects, the, um, because that second Calic"},{"t":13066,"text":"hasn't been triggered. The community responses, uh, relatively unknown by"},{"t":13071,"text":"staff at this time, noting that primarily our objective before"},{"t":13074,"text":"council today is to present on the, on the policies"},{"t":13078,"text":"or rather on the proposals, consistency with policy as opposed"},{"t":13082,"text":"to the community response. I understand it. I just think"},{"t":13085,"text":"it's really quite sad, quite problematic that the public, uh,"},{"t":13090,"text":"did not have that opportunity to review the proposal before"},{"t":13093,"text":"us today. I'm quite disturbed by that. Onwards, um, of"},{"t":13097,"text":"the 300 units of housing to be built in the"},{"t":13099,"text":"site are all I'm going to be strata. I mean,"},{"t":13101,"text":"what property tax is kick in for most of it"},{"t":13103,"text":"or all of it? Do we have any idea at"},{"t":13105,"text":"this point? Townsell. So through the mayor, that would be"},{"t":13108,"text":"the case. Yes. The, um, property taxes would be applicable"},{"t":13112,"text":"to those stratallots. Um, how the applicant, uh, either subdivide"},{"t":13119,"text":"the site in the future, uh, may affect that. But"},{"t":13123,"text":"the intent that this stages, um, stratified properties would be"},{"t":13128,"text":"taxed at normal rate and not be some sort of,"},{"t":13131,"text":"um, uh, tax, um, relief, exemption. That's the word I'm"},{"t":13136,"text":"looking for. Yeah. Okay. You mean therefore, especially let's just"},{"t":13142,"text":"say the Southeast corner might be sold. Through the mayor."},{"t":13146,"text":"That is correct. Thank you. Um, in the staff report,"},{"t":13151,"text":"it suggests that a heritage oversight type of committee is"},{"t":13153,"text":"going to be struck for the project. Yet as we"},{"t":13155,"text":"heard and we knew the city's Heritage Committee did not"},{"t":13158,"text":"support this development. And of course, as it had been"},{"t":13161,"text":"mentioned by another councillor is we're not sure when we"},{"t":13164,"text":"read anything here, whether we're talking to 2023 proposal or"},{"t":13168,"text":"today's. So how are you going to handle this whole"},{"t":13172,"text":"heritage contradiction. Mr. Towns - ORM and Steven O. So"},{"t":13179,"text":"maybe I can just speak broadly and through the mayor"},{"t":13181,"text":"about, um, I'm not, I might get you to rephrase"},{"t":13185,"text":"that question in terms of the Heritage Condiction and what"},{"t":13187,"text":"supported or not supported. When I read the report, the"},{"t":13191,"text":"pages before us, the Heritage Committee essentially did not support"},{"t":13197,"text":"this. I mean, the other committee did, the design committee,"},{"t":13202,"text":"even though there wasn't a design yet. So I'm just"},{"t":13205,"text":"wondering, um, how you're going to approach this will be"},{"t":13208,"text":"the City Heritage Committee? Are you, what are you planning"},{"t":13211,"text":"on doing or thinking of doing. Yeah, thank you for"},{"t":13213,"text":"that. So through the mayor, the, the motion before council"},{"t":13216,"text":"actually includes direction to send this application back to the"},{"t":13221,"text":"Heritage Advisory Committee. In the same committee. And so that's"},{"t":13224,"text":"the city struck heritage advisory panel, rather, um, and that's"},{"t":13228,"text":"forms part of the motion that's before you today. Okay."},{"t":13230,"text":"And so, cause they have not yet seen this proposal."},{"t":13235,"text":"To the mayor, they have seen this proposal. Their concern"},{"t":13238,"text":"was that they hadn't seen that the design guidelines that"},{"t":13240,"text":"were to, uh, accompany this proposal. Okay. Okay. Thank you."},{"t":13247,"text":"Um. Now I understand, of course, we're looking at different,"},{"t":13253,"text":"we looked at 2023 and a lot of the comments."},{"t":13255,"text":"And from what I've seen today, some of the questions"},{"t":13257,"text":"have been answered from what a lot of people wrote"},{"t":13260,"text":"about, but I'm going to ask one in case some"},{"t":13262,"text":"of those people are watching today. And there are references"},{"t":13266,"text":"to the closure of quad a street to create a"},{"t":13268,"text":"plus at the front of the cathedral before Courtney, between"},{"t":13271,"text":"Courtney and Burdet. But given the many, many days of"},{"t":13276,"text":"events, especially in Jamie's Bay, when, uh, there are very"},{"t":13280,"text":"few streets that residents can use to exit the community."},{"t":13284,"text":"And we have now seen backlog sometimes for an hour"},{"t":13287,"text":"or two when unusually events occur. And, um. With the"},{"t":13293,"text":"closure of Vancouver Street, quadra is one of the few"},{"t":13296,"text":"north - south streets that can be taken. So I"},{"t":13298,"text":"was wondering how that is coming along whether or not"},{"t":13301,"text":"that plaza and any kind of closure is still being"},{"t":13305,"text":"considered. And I'm especially conscious of the fact that Crystal"},{"t":13308,"text":"Poole will be on Quandra. And so can someone comment"},{"t":13313,"text":"on that, please? Mr. Council? Yeah. Through the mayor, I'll"},{"t":13317,"text":"just comment briefly and maybe look for our transportation group"},{"t":13320,"text":"to comment further, but there isn't a planned closure for"},{"t":13325,"text":"Quadr Street at this time. Um, but I think I'll"},{"t":13327,"text":"turn it to our transportation group to fulfill any other"},{"t":13330,"text":"parts of that question. So for you, Mr. Kenny. Good"},{"t":13334,"text":"afternoon, Merrick Council. Ross Kenny, assistant director of engineering and"},{"t":13336,"text":"public works. Um, regarding Quadra Street, there is no plans"},{"t":13340,"text":"to change vehicle access on quadrant street. One of the"},{"t":13345,"text":"things that we actually are seeking with, um, along with"},{"t":13348,"text":"this or other projects and changes on South Quadrat through"},{"t":13351,"text":"the OCP was to actually extend transit service, um, south"},{"t":13355,"text":"on quadra, currently buses turn at Yates and Fort. And"},{"t":13358,"text":"at some time we'd like to see them travel south,"},{"t":13360,"text":"uh, through this district. And we've been, um, communicating that"},{"t":13363,"text":"to BC Transit. So there's no plans to say close"},{"t":13367,"text":"quad rest. There was earlier discussions about, um, from various,"},{"t":13372,"text":"um, developments in the area about higher quality treatments at"},{"t":13375,"text":"that intersection. Um, such as pavers or raised intersection to"},{"t":13379,"text":"give it the experience of maybe more of a pedestrian"},{"t":13383,"text":"focused area, uh, well, respecting that there would be through"},{"t":13387,"text":"traffic on quadra, uh, but currently no one has come"},{"t":13389,"text":"to the table to be able to fund that. So"},{"t":13391,"text":"that's still something that we'd be looking at as possibly"},{"t":13393,"text":"a future scenario, but not as part of this application."},{"t":13396,"text":"PENNEN Okay. Thank you very much. Cause you've done a"},{"t":13399,"text":"lot of work the last couple of years in clearing"},{"t":13401,"text":"up the Southgate quadra intersection, which is now much friendly"},{"t":13404,"text":"or in usable for, uh, pedestrian, cyclists and vehicles. And"},{"t":13409,"text":"so I wouldn't want to see that wasted. Okay. This,"},{"t":13413,"text":"um, could you mention again to me what the density"},{"t":13417,"text":"is and what is being proposed. The difference I understand"},{"t":13420,"text":"is not great. Yes. Through the mayor. So the existing"},{"t":13425,"text":"permitted density on site is two to one floor space"},{"t":13428,"text":"ratio. And what's being proposed is 2. 4 to one"},{"t":13431,"text":"floor space ratio. But keep in mind, while that number"},{"t":13434,"text":"may seem small, this is a large site. And so"},{"t":13438,"text":"it takes into the account the entire site. So there"},{"t":13442,"text":"could be a significant amount of density with just a"},{"t":13445,"text":"0. 4 addition here. Um, you know, in the realm"},{"t":13448,"text":"of 30 to 40, 000 square metres. Yeah. And I"},{"t":13451,"text":"also understand of course that given that site a lot"},{"t":13454,"text":"of it is not buildable because we have a cathedral."},{"t":13456,"text":"Now, so I get, I get that. Um, please respond"},{"t":13460,"text":"when we look at the option one. In option two"},{"t":13463,"text":"in the way of recommendations from staff, which provides more"},{"t":13467,"text":"flexibility. Mr. Badhanzo. So through the mayor option one, the"},{"t":13474,"text":"recommended motion would provide more flexibility because it provides larger"},{"t":13478,"text":"or higher building heights. Option two, um, has the same"},{"t":13483,"text":"density, but it actually restricts the building heights, uh, more."},{"t":13488,"text":"Okay. An option too then. Because it's lower. Does it"},{"t":13492,"text":"occupy more larger footprint? What would be the footprint comparison"},{"t":13498,"text":"between option one and option two? In other words, how"},{"t":13501,"text":"much open space will there be? So what would be"},{"t":13503,"text":"the, uh, footprint change. Yeah. To the mirror. I can't"},{"t":13507,"text":"quote on specific numbers, but you are correct. Option two"},{"t":13510,"text":"would occupy, would have larger footprint buildings. Um, and just"},{"t":13515,"text":"for everyone's recollection, option two is, you know, a 12"},{"t":13517,"text":"story building and a six story building. Whereas, um, the"},{"t":13521,"text":"recommended motion is a 12 story, 18 story, two 8"},{"t":13525,"text":"story and one 4 story. So could we. It must"},{"t":13531,"text":"be some ideas to how much footprint, how much outdoor"},{"t":13534,"text":"space would be given up with option two? Would it"},{"t":13537,"text":"be much left outside of the commons green, which is"},{"t":13541,"text":"to the southwest? Would there be how much of the"},{"t":13545,"text":"rest would be eaten up between the two? I'm just"},{"t":13547,"text":"trying to compare the two. So through the mayor, I"},{"t":13553,"text":"just thought I'd flick to this image here, actually. And"},{"t":13556,"text":"so there's, um, there's the two buildings that are located"},{"t":13561,"text":"sort of in the centre of the site. And if"},{"t":13563,"text":"you imagine that being completely occupied without the pathway in"},{"t":13567,"text":"between the two. And then the two buildings on the"},{"t":13571,"text":"bottom right hand side corner, that would be completely occupied"},{"t":13575,"text":"as well. And so you'd lose those interstitial spaces between"},{"t":13578,"text":"the buildings. And then the four story building to the"},{"t":13581,"text":"left of the mid crossing would just be the same."},{"t":13586,"text":"And so it's mostly a loss of those interstitial spaces"},{"t":13589,"text":"between the buildings. That would be the change, uh, between"},{"t":13593,"text":"those two options. Based in between, which is near the"},{"t":13595,"text":"school would be lost. Correct. Okay. I may have more"},{"t":13601,"text":"questions later, Mayor. You're good. Councillor Hammond. Thank you very"},{"t":13604,"text":"much. Thanks, Mayor. My dilemma is I have more comments,"},{"t":13610,"text":"which I won't do now. More comments than questions. But"},{"t":13613,"text":"actually, I think there's one sort of broad question. And"},{"t":13618,"text":"because of the notes that I took, it struck me."},{"t":13621,"text":"It's, oh, what pages are on? Anyways, this isn't the"},{"t":13624,"text":"document. And maybe it's a page five. And it says"},{"t":13628,"text":"the proposal is consistent with parts of the downtown core"},{"t":13632,"text":"area plan guidance with respect to transitioning, building heights from"},{"t":13636,"text":"the downtown to the edges of the downtown core area."},{"t":13641,"text":"And this is what I put in red. However, the"},{"t":13644,"text":"proposed building height and form of the 18 story building"},{"t":13648,"text":"poses challenges for neighbourhood fit. And believe me, there's lots"},{"t":13654,"text":"more that is throughout your report, of which it made"},{"t":13658,"text":"a lot of notes and a lot of red highlights"},{"t":13660,"text":"on my page that just kept jumping out at me"},{"t":13663,"text":"about the height. And this was before I looked at"},{"t":13666,"text":"the rendering. I get technicalities. I get that, yeah, when"},{"t":13672,"text":"we look at those boundaries, I get that it's just"},{"t":13675,"text":"happens to be inside there. But that comment that was"},{"t":13678,"text":"given to us in your report is really the problem."},{"t":13682,"text":"I shouldn't say the problem, but the dilemma here, isn't"},{"t":13684,"text":"it? That there's all kinds of things that say this"},{"t":13690,"text":"technically can be okay. But when you look at that,"},{"t":13694,"text":"and then when you look at the rest of the"},{"t":13695,"text":"neighbourhood, it's put in that one little part of a"},{"t":13698,"text":"sentence. What are your thoughts on that about this dilemma"},{"t":13702,"text":"of something that's very, very tall can be allowed. But"},{"t":13707,"text":"the impact that it has on the rest of the"},{"t":13709,"text":"neighbourhood. Mr. Tensil. So through the mayor, and I'll just"},{"t":13715,"text":"sort of keep my comments brief, because typically our commentary"},{"t":13718,"text":"is going to be around policy as opposed to, uh,"},{"t":13722,"text":"those sort of flavour of questions. But I mean, it"},{"t":13724,"text":"is notably a challenge to land this much density on"},{"t":13727,"text":"the site. That's clear. These are novel building forms that"},{"t":13731,"text":"really stretch the interpretations of our urban structure concept. The"},{"t":13736,"text":"trade - off is, it's a very large challenge for,"},{"t":13740,"text":"um, the maintenance and upkeep and retention of these heritage"},{"t":13745,"text":"assets as well. And so these are two very key"},{"t":13748,"text":"policies within our guiding documents that we're trying to balance."},{"t":13752,"text":"Um, where we landed is kind of the best go"},{"t":13756,"text":"that we could sort of, uh, achieve with that. Um,"},{"t":13759,"text":"I think some of that language around the alternative motion"},{"t":13762,"text":"helps us to, um, mitigate some of those concerns a"},{"t":13766,"text":"little bit. Um, but I won't deny the fact that"},{"t":13769,"text":"it's a challenging application that's really sort of, um, on,"},{"t":13773,"text":"on the edge in terms of, uh, putting a recommendation"},{"t":13776,"text":"for support before council. Thanks. And, and thank you for"},{"t":13781,"text":"that. And Mayor, through you, um. When, you know, when"},{"t":13788,"text":"you, when you say that, I thought on a number"},{"t":13792,"text":"of occasions when something comes to us, we're not supposed"},{"t":13795,"text":"to, we're not supposed to really think of the proponent,"},{"t":13799,"text":"you know, the good that they do in the community"},{"t":13801,"text":"or if someone thinks less than good in the community."},{"t":13803,"text":"And yet, I mean, I'm very, very aware of the"},{"t":13807,"text":"importance of raising the money to preserve this structure. You,"},{"t":13812,"text":"you don't have to go more than, you don't have"},{"t":13814,"text":"to go a block as the crow flies. And I"},{"t":13817,"text":"used to live, like really close to there on Mir"},{"t":13820,"text":"Street, really close. And so, you know, I get the"},{"t":13824,"text":"importance of that. I've been up the tower and got"},{"t":13826,"text":"a tour of the bells and everything else. And the"},{"t":13829,"text":"importance of this church. So, so that's important. But maybe"},{"t":13834,"text":"I missed something. Is this something that we are absolutely"},{"t":13838,"text":"supposed to be giving consideration for this application. Mr. Pachenzo."},{"t":13843,"text":"So through the mayor, I'll just reiterate that we regulate"},{"t":13845,"text":"land use, building height, form and character and density. And"},{"t":13849,"text":"our preservation of heritage assets. And so that's not the"},{"t":13853,"text":"regulation of people or the consideration of whom is making"},{"t":13856,"text":"the application, but the consideration of what assets are on"},{"t":13859,"text":"site that the city has identified as valuable assets for"},{"t":13863,"text":"the city. Right. And as a result of that, then"},{"t":13867,"text":"you're saying that the money that they need to raise"},{"t":13870,"text":"and maybe the extra height or extra dense and or"},{"t":13873,"text":"extra density is in fact a factor in this proposal."},{"t":13880,"text":"That we need to consider. Through the mayor, absolutely. Great,"},{"t":13883,"text":"thank you. Very good. Any other questions. I actually have"},{"t":13889,"text":"a question actually. Oh, I'll go to Councillor Kim Purse."},{"t":13892,"text":"Go ahead. Um, thanks for the chair. Uh, I wanted"},{"t":13897,"text":"to ask about, uh, the MDA process has it been"},{"t":13904,"text":"typical to do the MDA process with rezonings. Cancer? Yes,"},{"t":13910,"text":"to the merit. That is the time when we do"},{"t":13911,"text":"the MDA. Yes. And so, um, can you walk me"},{"t":13914,"text":"through what the process looks like to do? The MDA"},{"t":13917,"text":"process with the rezoning while then also having to keep"},{"t":13921,"text":"doors open for the building permit and the design and"},{"t":13925,"text":"all of that. Yeah. Through the mayor. So typically what,"},{"t":13929,"text":"what occurs should this application be advanced? There will be"},{"t":13933,"text":"a motion that we share with our legal department who"},{"t":13936,"text":"will then draft an MDA or a master development agreement"},{"t":13939,"text":"to capture those aspects that we're trying to secure. And"},{"t":13943,"text":"in some respects, it's like adding another layer of policy"},{"t":13946,"text":"of things you must do when, when a development permit"},{"t":13949,"text":"comes forward. And so as an example, we'll have a"},{"t":13952,"text":"master development agreement that'll speak to the mid block crossing."},{"t":13955,"text":"And it'll say that this must be delivered with this"},{"t":13958,"text":"phase and this building when an application comes in, we"},{"t":13961,"text":"refer to the MDA. Where's our mid block crossing? What"},{"t":13964,"text":"are the details of it? And so it's just a,"},{"t":13966,"text":"it's almost like putting additional zoning requirements, um, on the"},{"t":13970,"text":"proposal. So that's how it operates typically. It's a very"},{"t":13973,"text":"elegant way to put it. Um, I think my concern"},{"t":13977,"text":"here is with, uh, because there marks around what's going"},{"t":13982,"text":"to come, um, that the MDA could hamper either party,"},{"t":13988,"text":"um, who, who's to say. So, um, I guess my"},{"t":13991,"text":"question to you is, do you have any suggestions on"},{"t":13993,"text":"how to work the MDA process to, like I said,"},{"t":13997,"text":"keep doors open for, um, for as many folks as"},{"t":14000,"text":"possible. I think you're speaking specifically to this proposal. You're"},{"t":14009,"text":"not speaking in general. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Not this proposed."},{"t":14013,"text":"Thanks for clarifying. Yeah. So through the mayor, it depends"},{"t":14016,"text":"what doors you are referring to, to keep open. The"},{"t":14019,"text":"things that we are trying to secure with in the"},{"t":14022,"text":"MDA would be the amount and type of heritage restoration"},{"t":14027,"text":"and conservation. The three metre setback along the property line."},{"t":14034,"text":"The building footprints and where they're located and the spaces"},{"t":14038,"text":"and the separation between buildings, which is typically a consideration"},{"t":14042,"text":"for portions of the building above six stories. And that's"},{"t":14046,"text":"about it. Um, in terms of what the MDA secures."},{"t":14050,"text":"So in many respects, it's still quite, um, uh, flexible,"},{"t":14055,"text":"uh, going forward, but it does secure the key aspects"},{"t":14058,"text":"that, that, uh, kind of inform the key considerations of"},{"t":14062,"text":"what's being proposed. Right. Yes, Mr. Johnson. Thank you. Yes."},{"t":14069,"text":"Just to, excuse me, just to add to that, having"},{"t":14074,"text":"an MDA in place also does provide some certainty and"},{"t":14078,"text":"clarity for, uh, anyone who's maybe interested in partnering with"},{"t":14083,"text":"the diocese on developing. So it can actually really help"},{"t":14087,"text":"inform those future stages by taking away the, any uncertainty"},{"t":14092,"text":"as to what the City might expect with the development"},{"t":14094,"text":"of those lands. Great. That's, that's very helpful. Thank you."},{"t":14098,"text":"Um, and then I was also wondering, um. Because the"},{"t":14104,"text":"dioceses is, are they considered a charitable work. Through the"},{"t":14110,"text":"mayor, that is correct currently. King, is there any context"},{"t":14114,"text":"or history of similar processes with a charitable org? Again,"},{"t":14119,"text":"I'm just trying to look for like a baseline comparator"},{"t":14122,"text":"so I can, cause this is a unique to me."},{"t":14128,"text":"Brutazo or. Through the mayor. I mean, some of the"},{"t":14134,"text":"sort of comparables might be our processes with not -"},{"t":14139,"text":"for - profit and affordable housing providers. I don't recall"},{"t":14145,"text":"in my tenure at the city dealing with another religious"},{"t":14152,"text":"organisation. But I think that would be the most sort"},{"t":14154,"text":"of relevant, comparable. Okay, thanks. Um, there was a note"},{"t":14160,"text":"about, sorry, I'm just looking at my notes here. Special"},{"t":14167,"text":"urban place designations. And the definition is arguably quite vague."},{"t":14174,"text":"So how do you manage coming to a middle ground"},{"t":14177,"text":"on how to define that. Mr. Danzo. The references to"},{"t":14186,"text":"a special urban place. Sorry, let me read my note"},{"t":14189,"text":"here. During the OCP update, uh, were the policies and"},{"t":14194,"text":"designations for large parcels of land, like this precinct, updated,"},{"t":14198,"text":"um, and within the OCP with things like special urban"},{"t":14202,"text":"place does designations. They're vague definitions. And so how do"},{"t":14205,"text":"you like work land somewhere with that. Does that make"},{"t":14211,"text":"sense? I'm through the mirror. I'm just a bit unfamiliar"},{"t":14215,"text":"with a special designation. This site has a couple characteristics"},{"t":14218,"text":"that have a special height area. Um, and in terms"},{"t":14221,"text":"of the special height area, I think that's spoken to"},{"t":14225,"text":"a bit in the report where we speak to that"},{"t":14228,"text":"consideration was baked into the downtown core area plan to"},{"t":14232,"text":"deal with, um, anticipated potentially taller buildings at this site"},{"t":14238,"text":"in order to help retain and support the preservation and"},{"t":14242,"text":"conservation of the heritage assets. And then further to that,"},{"t":14246,"text":"when we're sort of going through the assessment to assess"},{"t":14249,"text":"appropriate building heights, we're looking at, you know, the suite"},{"t":14253,"text":"of policies that speak to that and the density in"},{"t":14255,"text":"and around the area and some of those wider objectives"},{"t":14258,"text":"of transitioning from taller buildings downtown, less tall buildings as"},{"t":14262,"text":"we get into the residential fabric. Great. Thanks. I know"},{"t":14264,"text":"my question was a little vague, but you knocked it"},{"t":14266,"text":"out of the park there. Okay. That's it for me."},{"t":14268,"text":"Thanks. Thank you. Um, just have a question actually based"},{"t":14272,"text":"on this photograph. I think we fairly recently looked at"},{"t":14277,"text":"an application that was sent back to staff for further"},{"t":14281,"text":"review with the applicant that is on the corner of"},{"t":14283,"text":"Fort and Quadra, which if I see this is the"},{"t":14285,"text":"block, not right in front of the Cathedral, but one"},{"t":14287,"text":"over. Can you remind me about what was anticipated in"},{"t":14291,"text":"the height of those buildings. Through the mayor, I can"},{"t":14297,"text":"speak to the policy. And the policy anticipates, I believe,"},{"t":14300,"text":"up to 12 stories. Um, then what was actually proposed"},{"t":14303,"text":"was, I believe it was 25 stories, but I think"},{"t":14306,"text":"I'll just 27 stories, uh, was what was proposed. So"},{"t":14311,"text":"I'll just fire up our, yeah. So in terms of,"},{"t":14314,"text":"um, so it's 12 stories in terms of the downtown"},{"t":14317,"text":"core area plan and what was proposed was 27 stories."},{"t":14320,"text":"Right. And then if you go back to that photograph,"},{"t":14323,"text":"well, you don't need to because it's the same colour."},{"t":14324,"text":"Uh, but it would be the same colour. Where the"},{"t":14327,"text":"current or former rather YW said building is I know"},{"t":14330,"text":"that that is far away as far as distance goes,"},{"t":14333,"text":"because a rather as time goes because we don't know"},{"t":14335,"text":"what they're doing. But do you recall, was there ever"},{"t":14338,"text":"a conversation about what those heights might be. So through"},{"t":14344,"text":"the mayor, I can't speak to the proposal, but again,"},{"t":14345,"text":"the policy was, it's sort of that 10 to 12"},{"t":14347,"text":"stories. And I think perhaps our acting director can speak."},{"t":14351,"text":"Do you call any discussions about what those ones were"},{"t":14353,"text":"the why was. I don't see the mirror. I don't"},{"t":14357,"text":"recall the exact height of what was proposed in some"},{"t":14360,"text":"of those preliminary concepts. Um, but I didn't do know"},{"t":14364,"text":"that they were proposing something that was substantially taller than"},{"t":14369,"text":"the policy envision for that location. Call as well. Okay."},{"t":14374,"text":"Those are my only questions and I believe, uh, you"},{"t":14376,"text":"have more questions. No, I'm going to move the recommendation"},{"t":14379,"text":"because I have an amendment to make immediately. So if"},{"t":14381,"text":"you want to put the staff recommendation on the, um,"},{"t":14384,"text":"screen, uh, I will move that recommendation and look for"},{"t":14389,"text":"a second. Concert cure to seconder. So, um, before I"},{"t":14394,"text":"even speak to the motion, I'm actually going to introduce"},{"t":14397,"text":"an amendment to the motion. And that is something that"},{"t":14399,"text":"staff have that I sent to them, uh, last night"},{"t":14402,"text":"actually, I think it was or later yesterday. And actually"},{"t":14406,"text":"it should be as a new number two as opposed"},{"t":14408,"text":"to a number one, which is where I think I"},{"t":14410,"text":"suggested it might go earlier. We have staff could put"},{"t":14414,"text":"that up. That would be excellent. Thank you. And if"},{"t":14419,"text":"the second door for that, I will speak to why"},{"t":14421,"text":"it is there. Thanks Councillor Loton. So before speaking on"},{"t":14426,"text":"the main motion, um, a number of folks have commented"},{"t":14429,"text":"through our conversation so far that there was curiosity about"},{"t":14433,"text":"why the advisory design panel and recommendations or rather the"},{"t":14437,"text":"application wasn't changed or amended to reflect the advisory design"},{"t":14441,"text":"suggestions. And so for me, I think that the, uh,"},{"t":14446,"text":"ADP recommendations were sound. And so far as they allowed"},{"t":14451,"text":"a greater flexibility and how the height could be adjusted"},{"t":14455,"text":"to ensure the best possible use of density, well at"},{"t":14460,"text":"the same time, trying to both preserve the corridors of"},{"t":14464,"text":"views around the cathedral as well as making as much"},{"t":14467,"text":"as possible the footprint full of narrower, taller buildings. So"},{"t":14472,"text":"you had lots of more capacity to have open space"},{"t":14475,"text":"at the ground level. And it sounded to me reading"},{"t":14478,"text":"the ADP's Minutes that that's what they were going for"},{"t":14481,"text":"too. And so it seemed to me without trying to"},{"t":14484,"text":"introduce very restrictive terms to introduce this general statement of"},{"t":14489,"text":"trying to work with the applicant to greater a line"},{"t":14493,"text":"with the recommendations of ADP would provide greater flexibility for"},{"t":14497,"text":"those items and considerations. This does not suggest, uh, that"},{"t":14502,"text":"it is absolute. And that's why the phrasing is to"},{"t":14505,"text":"better align with. If in fact, it would turn out"},{"t":14508,"text":"that this is the best they can do. So be"},{"t":14510,"text":"it. Uh, and there isn't a sense here meeting a"},{"t":14513,"text":"particular threshold of what that means, but rather providing the"},{"t":14516,"text":"space for a further conversation about how best to deliver"},{"t":14519,"text":"both the density and the height in a way which"},{"t":14521,"text":"maximizes open space maximizes the preservation of the view of"},{"t":14524,"text":"the cathedral, uh, and provides the greater space for discussion"},{"t":14528,"text":"about all those things. So that's why proposed this amendment."},{"t":14531,"text":"Councillor Loden on the amendment only, please. Thanks, Andrew. You"},{"t":14535,"text":"mayor. I don't have much to add to that. Only"},{"t":14537,"text":"that I think that the flexibility component is really important"},{"t":14541,"text":"here because that's why we are considering a rezoning application"},{"t":14546,"text":"today without a development permit because the actual project and"},{"t":14552,"text":"the development itself will not come to fruition without a"},{"t":14555,"text":"partner. So this creates the ability to have more flexibility"},{"t":14559,"text":"in that as the proponent looks to attract a partner"},{"t":14563,"text":"so that they can then eventually come forward with their"},{"t":14567,"text":"project for us. So thank you for that. Any other"},{"t":14570,"text":"comments on this amendment. Councillor Cardone. Uh, thanks Mayor. I"},{"t":14575,"text":"oppose the amendment. And I think it's a situation where"},{"t":14578,"text":"reasonable minds can disagree. But my, my concern is that"},{"t":14584,"text":"aligning more closely with the recommendations of the ADP means"},{"t":14587,"text":"that this is likely going to be a taller building."},{"t":14590,"text":"And if it were three blocks to the west or"},{"t":14593,"text":"even one block to the west, I wouldn't be fussed"},{"t":14595,"text":"by it. But given the proximity to the cathedral, which"},{"t":14599,"text":"is undoubtedly the most important religious institution on the island."},{"t":14603,"text":"And one of the most important ones in Western Canada,"},{"t":14605,"text":"I think there needs to be an extraordinary amount of"},{"t":14607,"text":"sensitivity to the fact that housing is going to be"},{"t":14611,"text":"added most likely to this campus. And I think we"},{"t":14614,"text":"need to be really, really cautious about not allowing for"},{"t":14619,"text":"a built environment that is going to tower over those"},{"t":14621,"text":"heritage assets. And the taller of the buildings are, the"},{"t":14624,"text":"more they diminish the feel and aesthetic and sighting of"},{"t":14628,"text":"the cathedral. I think 18 stories is totally reasonable. And"},{"t":14632,"text":"when you combine all the other stories of the other"},{"t":14635,"text":"buildings, we're talking about between 46 and 50 total stories,"},{"t":14638,"text":"most of which would be housing. I think that that's"},{"t":14640,"text":"already very generous. And in a lot of ways, we're"},{"t":14643,"text":"kind of pushing it by allowing housing on this precinct"},{"t":14645,"text":"at all. So again, I think reasonable minds can disagree,"},{"t":14649,"text":"but I think that we need to be sensitive here."},{"t":14652,"text":"I think that we've landed in a really good place."},{"t":14654,"text":"The email that we got from the proponent. Uh, makes"},{"t":14657,"text":"it clear that they support the staff recommendation. Staff supports"},{"t":14660,"text":"a staff recommendation. Uh, contrary to some of the commons"},{"t":14663,"text":"that came out earlier. I think that this actually has"},{"t":14665,"text":"not been very contentious. I think that it's taken a"},{"t":14668,"text":"long time, but I think the proponent and staff have"},{"t":14671,"text":"gotten it to a place where it is largely supported"},{"t":14675,"text":"and supportable by the community. And I think that the"},{"t":14677,"text":"more that we mess with the staff recommendation, the more"},{"t":14680,"text":"that we risk undoing that relatively high level of consensus,"},{"t":14684,"text":"which I'm not willing to do. And I don't want"},{"t":14686,"text":"to, uh, overshadow the cathedral with a building that's going"},{"t":14689,"text":"to tower over it someday. So I think the status"},{"t":14692,"text":"quo for me is totally supportable. So I don't support"},{"t":14695,"text":"any amendments to it. Thanks Mayor. Thank you very much."},{"t":14698,"text":"I'm just going to flag for Council, as I mentioned"},{"t":14700,"text":"before we begin, uh, I have unfortunately phone call that"},{"t":14704,"text":"is required to be taken at 2. 30. So I'm"},{"t":14707,"text":"going to look to Councillor Hammond. Do you have brief"},{"t":14709,"text":"comments or would you like to break down? I have"},{"t":14712,"text":"a brief question, but maybe this will give me the"},{"t":14714,"text":"time to do it. I'm, I've opened appendix N and"},{"t":14719,"text":"I was just hoping someone could give me a quick"},{"t":14721,"text":"Cole's notes of the, um, uh, the advisory design panel"},{"t":14725,"text":"in these 11 pages. Cause I haven't memorized them. Mr."},{"t":14729,"text":"Patenzo, can you summarize the ADP recommendations, please? Yes. Through"},{"t":14734,"text":"the mayor, um, the ADP recommendation was that council provide"},{"t":14738,"text":"direction to staff to give consideration to implement the offsite"},{"t":14741,"text":"public realm improvement to ensure they are implemented through eventual"},{"t":14744,"text":"development, in particular, the Cathedral court and Rockland Greenway. The"},{"t":14749,"text":"applicant considers shifting height from the 8 Story buildings to"},{"t":14753,"text":"the 18 story building to provide a height contrast between"},{"t":14757,"text":"a cathedral and the 18 story building and improve the"},{"t":14760,"text":"relationship to the street. And the applicant to consider adjusting"},{"t":14763,"text":"the future cathedral house, which is the small four story"},{"t":14767,"text":"building to provide more space for the walkway between the"},{"t":14769,"text":"cathedral and amenity building, which would may require a setback"},{"t":14773,"text":"reduction. Very good. Mr. Potion. Very good. Uh, are there"},{"t":14778,"text":"any other questions or comments on the amendment. All right,"},{"t":14783,"text":"perhaps we'll call the question on the amendment and then"},{"t":14785,"text":"we'll take a break. On the amendment, all those in"},{"t":14788,"text":"favor Councillor Dill, Councillor Kim, Councillor Loton, myself, and Councillor"},{"t":14793,"text":"Thompson in opposition Councillor Coronado, Councillor Loton, uh, Councillor Hammond,"},{"t":14798,"text":"rather and Councillor Gardner. So with eight people here, I"},{"t":14801,"text":"believe that is five to three in favor of the"},{"t":14803,"text":"amendment that is correct of looking at staff. Yes. So"},{"t":14806,"text":"that amendment is adopted. Uh, I'm going to reserve my"},{"t":14810,"text":"comments on the main motion until a slightly later in"},{"t":14813,"text":"the conversation and suggest right now that we take a"},{"t":14816,"text":"20 minute break and return at 250, 250 when we"},{"t":14821,"text":"will then go to Councillor Cardona as the secondary. Very"},{"t":14827,"text":"good. Right."},{"t":14951,"text":"Pretty much for that and we are back now on"},{"t":14953,"text":"item G2 from our Committee of the Hole agenda. And"},{"t":14957,"text":"that is of course the Cathedral District Application. The motion"},{"t":14961,"text":"is on the floor. It's been amended once. I reserved"},{"t":14964,"text":"my comments for later and the seconder was Councillor Caradona."},{"t":14967,"text":"Over to you. Yes, I think I have an amendment"},{"t":14970,"text":"too, so I'll hold off on general motivation until I've"},{"t":14972,"text":"done that. Sure, go ahead. So my amendment pertains to"},{"t":14978,"text":"the potential community amenity contribution, or I don't know. I"},{"t":14984,"text":"don't know if I should call it a CAC or"},{"t":14985,"text":"an ACC, but let's just call it an amenity contribution."},{"t":14989,"text":"Which, well. Starting to motivate, I'm sorry motivated. Yes, you"},{"t":14993,"text":"are. So let's have the amendment. I don't know where"},{"t":14995,"text":"it would go though. But generally knowing it's about that."},{"t":15000,"text":"Is there a suggestion about where it might go? Can"},{"t":15002,"text":"you speak your amendment and then we can perhaps get"},{"t":15005,"text":"stops advice on where it would fit? Sure. It would"},{"t":15007,"text":"be that council. Confirms. That. Comma. Assuming the development permit"},{"t":15017,"text":"proposes stratified housing, comma, and subject to legal agreements, comma."},{"t":15023,"text":"Council, they Council confirm that. Seismic upgrades. Would be considered"},{"t":15033,"text":"an acceptable. Usage. Of amenity contributions. So, Steph, where would"},{"t":15041,"text":"such an amendment best fit in your view. Obviously, this"},{"t":15046,"text":"is about ACC's in seismic. So what would be your"},{"t":15049,"text":"suggestion is to location. So through the mayor, that's kind"},{"t":15053,"text":"of already how the motion reads. Can you explain that?"},{"t":15057,"text":"And so I'm just going to find the spot in"},{"t":15061,"text":"the motion here. So there is subject to the third"},{"t":15067,"text":"reading of the Zoning Amendment bylaw. The applicant completes the"},{"t":15070,"text":"following priority of the adoption of the bylaw. Prepare and"},{"t":15072,"text":"execute legal agreements. Blah, blah, blah, you date that section."},{"t":15079,"text":"Provision of a master development's agreement to secure a phasing"},{"t":15082,"text":"plan that identifies the associated amenities and improvements for frontage"},{"t":15085,"text":"improvements, relocation of the Heritage Registered Denery Buildering to an"},{"t":15089,"text":"off - site location, Heritage Restoration, Accessibility Improvements, and Seismic"},{"t":15093,"text":"Upgrading of the 3 Heritage Designated Buildings on the site."},{"t":15096,"text":"So that's item 1, 3, 1, I, 1, 3 point,"},{"t":15103,"text":"I. 3A11, yes. Thank you. Okay, I hear that. I"},{"t":15106,"text":"guess my, going back to the previous conversation, to me,"},{"t":15110,"text":"it's not entirely clear that when this comes forward as"},{"t":15113,"text":"a DP, it will be stratified. The baseline assumption is"},{"t":15116,"text":"that it is, but it is possible that could change."},{"t":15119,"text":"It's possible that they could propose market rental or something."},{"t":15122,"text":"So I want to clarify that if they go the"},{"t":15125,"text":"strat or route or even, let's say 75 percent of"},{"t":15127,"text":"the development ends up a strad in 21 that we've"},{"t":15131,"text":"clarified that the proportion of the development that is stratified"},{"t":15134,"text":"that would have in many contribution associated with it, that"},{"t":15137,"text":"X, Y, and Z usage is are considered appropriate. If"},{"t":15141,"text":"that is already in there, then I'll let it go."},{"t":15144,"text":"But to me, it didn't jump out as clear enough."},{"t":15147,"text":"So Mr. Patenza, we'll ask the question is given what"},{"t":15150,"text":"Councillor Caradona has explained. Do you think the existing language"},{"t":15155,"text":"considers that? And I suppose the secondary question is, if"},{"t":15160,"text":"that kind of detail is necessary, is it necessary now."},{"t":15165,"text":"Or when you get to the point where you're preparing"},{"t":15168,"text":"and executing those agreements. PONNES So through the mayor, I"},{"t":15172,"text":"mean, you just will restate what you're trying to achieve"},{"t":15174,"text":"here, is that, so we're securing a level of amenities."},{"t":15178,"text":"At this point in time, under the assumption that the"},{"t":15181,"text":"entire proposal of Strata residential. You would like to be"},{"t":15186,"text":"able to offer the applicant the ability to reduce that"},{"t":15189,"text":"level of amenity in exchange for affordable housing at some"},{"t":15193,"text":"future date. Is that correct? I don't know if I"},{"t":15195,"text":"would frame it that way. I'm just trying to be"},{"t":15197,"text":"realistic of the fact that we don't know what the"},{"t":15200,"text":"development permit application will look like. We've made some assumptions"},{"t":15203,"text":"about what it'll look like. But I'm trying to get"},{"t":15205,"text":"across is that whatever percentage of this housing development ends"},{"t":15208,"text":"up as stratified, whether it's ordinarily have an amenity contribution"},{"t":15215,"text":"attached to it because it's stratified, that the usage of"},{"t":15218,"text":"those monies are allowed to go towards X, Y, and"},{"t":15221,"text":"Z on site, as opposed to what the ACC policy"},{"t":15224,"text":"says, which is it's going to a park or a"},{"t":15226,"text":"community centre. It can stay on site for that work."},{"t":15229,"text":"But acknowledging that it might not be a hundred percent"},{"t":15231,"text":"of the DPU So Mr. Patazo, I guess the question"},{"t":15234,"text":"is, is now the time to try and secure that"},{"t":15239,"text":"supposition. Or is that something that comes at a later"},{"t":15243,"text":"date, Mr. Johnson? Thank you, Through the Mayor. So right"},{"t":15247,"text":"now, the way the recommendation is written, all of the"},{"t":15254,"text":"voluntary amenities associated with this application would be secured at"},{"t":15259,"text":"this time, and it's not tied to the tenure of"},{"t":15262,"text":"the residential development in the future. So we're assuming that,"},{"t":15267,"text":"I mean, it sort of, regardless of the tenure, these"},{"t":15269,"text":"menis will be delivered with those phases of development. And"},{"t":15273,"text":"this project will not be subject to our amenity cost"},{"t":15277,"text":"charge bylaw, because it's an in - stream application. It"},{"t":15280,"text":"is exempt from that bylaw. For all future phases of"},{"t":15284,"text":"development. So in a nutshell. I don't think it's necessary,"},{"t":15288,"text":"okay. So that's the, so it seems to be not"},{"t":15290,"text":"necessary at this time. Okay, can you just clarify through"},{"t":15295,"text":"the mayor why we're calling them voluntary? Because even if"},{"t":15298,"text":"you set aside the ACC legislation prior to that legislation,"},{"t":15301,"text":"we had our own policy around CACs. Those were not"},{"t":15303,"text":"voluntary. Those were obligatory. Mr. Jones. At least as we"},{"t":15307,"text":"considered them. Oh, everyone is pointing at Mr. Johnston. Through"},{"t":15316,"text":"the mayor. So with a rezoning application, uh, that's proposing"},{"t":15321,"text":"additional density. Um, additional pressures on existing, um, community amenities."},{"t":15330,"text":"We seek to, we look to applicants to propose some"},{"t":15336,"text":"form of amenity contribution that helps to offset the impacts"},{"t":15338,"text":"of increased growth and development. Those are ultimately sort of"},{"t":15342,"text":"voluntary contributions that are made by the applicant, but they're"},{"t":15345,"text":"negotiated by staff. And they're, we're seeking something that aligns"},{"t":15349,"text":"with our current policies of the day. Um, so when"},{"t":15354,"text":"we had a community, uh, amenity contribution policy that provided"},{"t":15358,"text":"some guidance for applicants on the type of, um. Voluntary"},{"t":15364,"text":"amenities that we would be expecting to come with a"},{"t":15368,"text":"rezoning application. Okay. So if I've understood correctly, sorry, mayor"},{"t":15371,"text":"for, for putting up with this, but so the legal"},{"t":15375,"text":"agreements will enshrine as part of an agreement that quote"},{"t":15379,"text":"unquote voluntary compensation, which ordinarily go towards something that the"},{"t":15385,"text":"city chooses could, in this case, stay on site for"},{"t":15388,"text":"the seismic upgrades, et cetera. I almost said irregardless, regardless"},{"t":15394,"text":"of whether or not this does end up as stratified"},{"t":15396,"text":"or something else in the future. So that, so just"},{"t":15399,"text":"to clarify that if, let's say three years from now,"},{"t":15401,"text":"they come back with a deeply application and it's not"},{"t":15404,"text":"fully stratified. It's some combination or whatever. They are still"},{"t":15407,"text":"bound to put those voluntary contributions into seismic, et cetera."},{"t":15412,"text":"It's not in a sense tied to it being stratified."},{"t":15416,"text":"Mr. Tanzer, through the mayor. So typically stratification of the"},{"t":15423,"text":"tenure is not an amenity. So, uh, it doesn't make"},{"t":15428,"text":"any difference. It's the, those amenities are being secured, um,"},{"t":15432,"text":"reflective of the density being proposed. Um, but it doesn't"},{"t":15435,"text":"preclude them from proposing a different 10 year at a"},{"t":15438,"text":"different time simply because a market strata residential is not"},{"t":15442,"text":"considered an amenity. But presumably by that point these legal"},{"t":15445,"text":"agreements will have already the inkle have been dry on"},{"t":15447,"text":"them. The assumption is that they're going to have to"},{"t":15449,"text":"put those money towards seismic upgrade, et cetera. To the"},{"t":15452,"text":"mayor, that is correct. Okay. So then it sounds like"},{"t":15454,"text":"my motion would be redundant, in which case I'm happy"},{"t":15457,"text":"with draw it. Do you want to speak on the"},{"t":15459,"text":"main motion at this point then? Or. I'm a bit"},{"t":15462,"text":"out of breath at the moment. Okay, all right. Welcome"},{"t":15465,"text":"back to you and we'll go to Councillor Loden. Who's"},{"t":15468,"text":"next? Uh, thanks, Mr. Yumer. I have an amendment as"},{"t":15474,"text":"well that I have sent over to Ledge Services. It's"},{"t":15479,"text":"letting get that. Boing to be. Um, a new 3A."},{"t":15488,"text":"Well, 3A. It could go, um, as an amendment to"},{"t":15493,"text":"number two. Uh, no, it can go in number three."},{"t":15497,"text":"Okay. As a new A number three. Okay. So 3A"},{"t":15502,"text":"is a new, oh, they have it already. They have"},{"t":15505,"text":"it. So just wait for that to come up. Just"},{"t":15512,"text":"give books a minute to read it."},{"t":15522,"text":"I'm seeing from my peripheral vision that Councillor Thompson would"},{"t":15524,"text":"like to second that Councillor Lotten, why don't you motivate."},{"t":15531,"text":"Thanks, Mayor. Um, it seems to me that there is"},{"t":15535,"text":"a desire from the proponents that they would like to"},{"t":15538,"text":"be able to deliver some aspect of affordable housing in"},{"t":15542,"text":"this project. But at the state of the rezoning application"},{"t":15548,"text":"in front of us, an avenue for that. So the"},{"t":15553,"text":"goal of this amendment is to give them an avenue"},{"t":15558,"text":"to deliver affordable housing if they choose to pursue it."},{"t":15563,"text":"Because, um, this must be established during the rezoning phase."},{"t":15567,"text":"We have to introduce it today at Camp Beatted at"},{"t":15569,"text":"a later phase. So that's why I'm bringing it right"},{"t":15572,"text":"now. As we have heard already today a little bit,"},{"t":15577,"text":"faith - based organisations frequently hold significant LAN portfolios, but"},{"t":15583,"text":"lack the liquid capital required for major developments. So to"},{"t":15586,"text":"fully realise housing on this site, they have to attract"},{"t":15589,"text":"and engage development partner. So hence the reason there's no"},{"t":15594,"text":"development permit to consider with this rezoning. By passing this"},{"t":15598,"text":"amendment, we would give the proponent the flexibility to incorporate"},{"t":15602,"text":"affordability into their model, making the project potentially more attractive"},{"t":15607,"text":"to the right partners. And ultimately, this is a proactive"},{"t":15610,"text":"step for the city to incentivize and unlock desperately needed"},{"t":15614,"text":"affordable housing on this site. I also believe that the"},{"t":15622,"text":"proponent genuinely wants to include an affordable component. And this"},{"t":15628,"text":"tool will give them the flexibility to fully explore that"},{"t":15631,"text":"vision. And so I heard I listened on CBC and"},{"t":15638,"text":"the Reverend Jonathan said, we want to be able to"},{"t":15642,"text":"live out our values with the assets we have. And"},{"t":15646,"text":"that, um, that struck home with me this morning. And"},{"t":15649,"text":"so I just want them to have the freedom to"},{"t":15651,"text":"be able to do that. And additionally, the diocese, the"},{"t":15656,"text":"Anklund Diocese of islands and Inlets have delivered 500 units"},{"t":15660,"text":"of affordable housing, including in Sanich and Duncan. So giving"},{"t":15664,"text":"them the potential opportunity to the same on this site"},{"t":15668,"text":"is important at this stage. And I just was doing"},{"t":15671,"text":"a little blue skying myself as I was reading the"},{"t":15674,"text":"application and I, I was daydreaming about the possibility of"},{"t":15679,"text":"the reconciliation component of the Southwest lawn extending potentially into"},{"t":15687,"text":"affordable housing partnership with the nations. Now that's just me"},{"t":15691,"text":"blue skying. I'm not suggesting that this is going to"},{"t":15694,"text":"come to fruition. But I'd like the proponent to have"},{"t":15698,"text":"the freedom to blue sky to do the same thing"},{"t":15702,"text":"and to see what happens with that. And this amendment"},{"t":15705,"text":"grants them that freedom. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Thompson"},{"t":15708,"text":"as a second or two. The amendment, please. Thanks. I'll"},{"t":15711,"text":"be brief. Agree with all that. Um, we need to"},{"t":15715,"text":"be trying to enable affordable housing wherever it's feasible. And"},{"t":15720,"text":"it's not always feasible. And we don't know if it"},{"t":15722,"text":"will be here, but this at least gives us the"},{"t":15724,"text":"possibility. And I think, um, in our final decision, we"},{"t":15729,"text":"need to bear in mind that we're not dealing with"},{"t":15733,"text":"an applicant we're dealing with an application. Uh, but I"},{"t":15736,"text":"will say that, uh, this is a church. And a"},{"t":15740,"text":"lot of churches are in this position of having property"},{"t":15744,"text":"and having the opportunity to deal with the housing crisis"},{"t":15748,"text":"and the Affordable housing crisis. As an extension of their"},{"t":15751,"text":"mission. So, um, this is kind of doing Lord's work."},{"t":15758,"text":"And I'm strongly supportive. Thank you Councillor Hammond on the"},{"t":15762,"text":"amendment. Thanks Mayor. Being that I'm already concerned about the"},{"t":15767,"text":"size of this thing exactly what does it mean while"},{"t":15770,"text":"maintaining the general four massing in site plan is currently"},{"t":15774,"text":"proposed. Does that mean they're going to be getting bunkers"},{"t":15776,"text":"underground or something. Can someone explain that. Through the mayor?"},{"t":15785,"text":"I think the term generally would see us looking at,"},{"t":15789,"text":"um, not adding significant amount of height. So we're in"},{"t":15792,"text":"the realm of one and two stories of height, maybe"},{"t":15794,"text":"three at the at the outset. And perhaps reducing the"},{"t":15798,"text":"setbacks between that interstitial space between buildings and reducing the"},{"t":15802,"text":"amount of open space, uh, and utilising a building form"},{"t":15806,"text":"that has a larger footprint. Okay. So then while maintaining"},{"t":15810,"text":"general form massing and site plan is currently proposed really"},{"t":15814,"text":"means going taller, going higher. And using up more, um,"},{"t":15820,"text":"space. To the mayor, that is correct. How does that"},{"t":15827,"text":"seems to be inconsistent with maintaining general form massing and"},{"t":15833,"text":"site plan. Doesn't it? Jensew? Too bad. I can speak"},{"t":15837,"text":"in terms of generalities. And so, you know, our, our"},{"t":15840,"text":"OCP is written in such a way that the flexibility"},{"t":15842,"text":"in the OCP. I'll reiterate that this site is sort"},{"t":15845,"text":"of at, um, a challenging position in terms of the"},{"t":15848,"text":"amount of density that's being programmed on the site. In"},{"t":15852,"text":"many respects, you know, a lot of that amenity contribution"},{"t":15855,"text":"that's been considered with this site has been eaten up"},{"t":15857,"text":"or programmed towards the retention and upgrades of the heritage"},{"t":15861,"text":"buildings on site. So there's a challenge in terms of"},{"t":15864,"text":"one site doing many things in terms of achieving all"},{"t":15866,"text":"of the objectives in the OCP. Um, perhaps I'll just"},{"t":15871,"text":"leave it at the point that it's challenging already in"},{"t":15873,"text":"terms of the density. And this may exacerbate that to"},{"t":15876,"text":"some extent. PENTER OK, thanks very much. And then to"},{"t":15879,"text":"the amendment, mayor, I'll oppose it just because I'm already"},{"t":15882,"text":"concerned about the, um, the height and the density. And,"},{"t":15886,"text":"you know, when I read the report, they said, okay,"},{"t":15888,"text":"we're not there yet, but we certainly would like to"},{"t":15890,"text":"be able to put in something that's affordable. And I"},{"t":15894,"text":"got to assume that with a lot of very good"},{"t":15898,"text":"intention people, as I know, people are not only from"},{"t":15901,"text":"this church, but as religions as a whole, uh, they"},{"t":15903,"text":"got God on their side. And I'm not saying this"},{"t":15906,"text":"in a bad way, meaning that I'm not being funny"},{"t":15910,"text":"about it. I'm saying that they have a church that"},{"t":15914,"text":"they want to maintain and have seismic upgrades and heritage"},{"t":15918,"text":"and everything else. And at the same time, I know"},{"t":15920,"text":"that if anyone is going to be interested in supportive"},{"t":15923,"text":"housing, it is going to be a church. Thank you"},{"t":15927,"text":"Councillor Caradona. Thanks Mayor. I can support this amendment because"},{"t":15932,"text":"of course, uh, I would want to see affordable housing"},{"t":15934,"text":"as possible. However, I continue to believe that it is"},{"t":15937,"text":"a very bad idea to allow the tallest building on"},{"t":15940,"text":"the site to be above 18 stories. That is my"},{"t":15942,"text":"view on it. I want the cathedral to maintain all"},{"t":15946,"text":"the cathedral to continue to be the centrepiece. I don't"},{"t":15948,"text":"want it to be overshadowed by looming towers. So the"},{"t":15951,"text":"way I read this is more generally around density on"},{"t":15954,"text":"site reminding staff that there is an 8 Story building,"},{"t":15957,"text":"another 8 story building, a 12 story building and a"},{"t":15960,"text":"4 Story building. So if there's possibility, maybe one of"},{"t":15963,"text":"those 8 goes to 10 or maybe the 12 goes"},{"t":15965,"text":"to 14. But the density does not need to go"},{"t":15967,"text":"into the tallest building. Thank you very much. Anyone else"},{"t":15971,"text":"on the amendment. Councillor Kim. Um, thanks to the chair."},{"t":15978,"text":"I can support this. Um, beyond just considerations around general"},{"t":15982,"text":"form massing. Because anything that can encourage affordable housing is"},{"t":15987,"text":"actually also encouraging mixed income communities. And particularly having something"},{"t":15991,"text":"that starts to encroach into the Fairfield neighbourhood, um, for"},{"t":15995,"text":"me is actually like a huge piece around equalizing the"},{"t":15999,"text":"distribution of various incomes in our cities. So for that"},{"t":16003,"text":"reason alone, I can support this. Thank you very much."},{"t":16007,"text":"Anyone else on the amendment. Not seeing anyone also in"},{"t":16011,"text":"the amendment. So on the amendment, all those in favor."},{"t":16015,"text":"Council Dell, Councillor Kim, Councillor Cardona, Councillor Loton myself and"},{"t":16019,"text":"Councillor Thompson in opposition. Councillor Hammond and Councillor Gardner. Noting"},{"t":16023,"text":"to, in opposition, that amendment is approved. And Councillor Lochny"},{"t":16028,"text":"still helped the floor. Thanks, Mayor. I'll just provide a"},{"t":16031,"text":"few comments just to close to close off. Um, I"},{"t":16035,"text":"think we all know this. But Christchurch Cathedral is a"},{"t":16039,"text":"jewel in our region. And providing a viable avenue for"},{"t":16042,"text":"the essential seismic upgrades on this historic site is crucial."},{"t":16048,"text":"I think we've all had that experience, um, turning east"},{"t":16052,"text":"on Courtney and seeing that church, it takes my breath"},{"t":16056,"text":"away every time. I'm not sure why, maybe because I"},{"t":16059,"text":"don't turn down that street very often. But it is,"},{"t":16063,"text":"it is an absolute crown jewel of our region. And"},{"t":16068,"text":"this the seismic work to the Heritage Elements of this"},{"t":16072,"text":"are really, really critical. Um, and I also have, I"},{"t":16076,"text":"noted this in the amendment, but I do want to"},{"t":16079,"text":"highlight the creation of the reconciliation garden and the profound"},{"t":16083,"text":"roundtable work that has been done with the Local Nations."},{"t":16086,"text":"It shows a deep, genuine commitment to reconciliation. And as"},{"t":16093,"text":"I have also mentioned too in a dream world, I"},{"t":16095,"text":"could see this important foundational work eventually expanding into an"},{"t":16100,"text":"affordable housing partnership with the nations and the amendments we"},{"t":16103,"text":"passed earlier, just a few minutes ago might help to"},{"t":16107,"text":"provide the runway to realise this vision, even though I"},{"t":16111,"text":"recognise this, this is an aspirational hope. And in these"},{"t":16114,"text":"very early days. I also want to note that I'm"},{"t":16120,"text":"deeply appreciative of the perspective shared in the first paragraph"},{"t":16124,"text":"of a letter address to Mayor and Council by the"},{"t":16127,"text":"ED of the, of the diocese. And I'm going to"},{"t":16130,"text":"just take a second and read that. In Christ Church"},{"t":16133,"text":"Cathedrals Chapel of the New Jerusalem, there is a large"},{"t":16136,"text":"window on the east wall. This stunning artwork speaks to"},{"t":16140,"text":"the hope of urban life deeply aligned with our faith."},{"t":16145,"text":"The design draws inspiration from the final book of the"},{"t":16147,"text":"Bible, where there is a vision of a future city"},{"t":16150,"text":"where God lives with people in all tribes and languages."},{"t":16154,"text":"The trees bear fruit for all. And tears are no"},{"t":16158,"text":"more. This city is a place of radical belonging and"},{"t":16162,"text":"beauty that can inform our vision of the city we"},{"t":16165,"text":"want to live in. We do not imagine this proposal"},{"t":16170,"text":"will fulfill that vision, but we hope that by offering"},{"t":16172,"text":"our space as a commons for the community, we together"},{"t":16175,"text":"might take a step in that direction. So while their"},{"t":16181,"text":"goals are clearly aspirational, I think it's vital for the"},{"t":16184,"text":"church to provide that kind of North Star for our"},{"t":16187,"text":"society to reach towards. I believe that is exactly what"},{"t":16191,"text":"they are attempting to do with this project. And I'm"},{"t":16193,"text":"glad to support that direction today. And I wish them"},{"t":16197,"text":"well as they plan for the next several decades on"},{"t":16199,"text":"this site as the Ministry morphs into a new way"},{"t":16202,"text":"of serving our community. Thank you. Thank you very much."},{"t":16206,"text":"Council Cardona. Would you like to make your comments now"},{"t":16209,"text":"general comments now? Yeah. Uh, comment my breath a bit."},{"t":16214,"text":"I would like to, that's a tough act to follow."},{"t":16218,"text":"I don't, I don't, I won't be able to top"},{"t":16219,"text":"that, but I will say in closing, I want to"},{"t":16225,"text":"thank staff for how much work they put in on"},{"t":16228,"text":"this. I think that you did a superb job in"},{"t":16230,"text":"the report and in the negotiations. I want to thank"},{"t":16232,"text":"the proponent for bringing this forward and thinking about ways,"},{"t":16236,"text":"creative ways of solving problems for themselves. And also solving"},{"t":16240,"text":"problems for the community. I recall having a conversation with"},{"t":16244,"text":"the proponent a couple years ago as I think a"},{"t":16246,"text":"lot of us did. And the initial conversations around this"},{"t":16249,"text":"was talk of a very, very tall tower. Like above"},{"t":16253,"text":"40 stories or something, 40 to 60 stories, something like"},{"t":16257,"text":"that. And which the idea was to cash out and"},{"t":16261,"text":"solve the seismic problems. That was the story that I"},{"t":16264,"text":"was sort of sold in a way. We need money"},{"t":16266,"text":"to upgrade our seismic. And my comment at that time,"},{"t":16269,"text":"which I think in hindsight, they took was this, that's"},{"t":16272,"text":"not a compelling enough narrative for this community. That's solving"},{"t":16274,"text":"a problem for you, which is great. But you need"},{"t":16276,"text":"to think about how you're solving multiple problems for this"},{"t":16278,"text":"community. And I think that they took that advice. And"},{"t":16281,"text":"I think others said some of the things wasn't just"},{"t":16283,"text":"me. And I think they also listened to the community"},{"t":16285,"text":"and they came back with a proposal that actually delivers"},{"t":16288,"text":"real value to the community. We haven't really talked at"},{"t":16290,"text":"all about the fact that this is a mixed use"},{"t":16292,"text":"development. And I don't even think it's come up today."},{"t":16294,"text":"The idea is that the ground floor commercial. Those are"},{"t":16298,"text":"going to be restaurants. They're going to be coffee shops."},{"t":16300,"text":"Maybe the lawyer's office or a notary or something like"},{"t":16302,"text":"that. But the, the, the cathedral precinct in essential in"},{"t":16308,"text":"a sense will turn into a kind of mixed use"},{"t":16309,"text":"village where the Heritage assets that can also be used"},{"t":16312,"text":"as kind of a community centre. There'll be housing and"},{"t":16315,"text":"there will be commercial and street activation. I think it'll"},{"t":16318,"text":"be a place that draws people in from downtown, draws"},{"t":16321,"text":"people in from Fairfield and elsewhere. There are certain number"},{"t":16325,"text":"of tourists. Of course, that go and check out the"},{"t":16327,"text":"Cathedral. I think there could be a lot more. And"},{"t":16329,"text":"I think if you have a gathering space, an internal"},{"t":16332,"text":"patio, uh, and, and courtyard that maybe there's a coffee"},{"t":16337,"text":"shop in a restaurant where people can hang out around"},{"t":16339,"text":"the cathedral and enjoy that heritage, that Heritage said and"},{"t":16343,"text":"go inside and do a tour. It actually will enhance"},{"t":16345,"text":"the viability and the, um, the attractability of that, uh,"},{"t":16352,"text":"of, of that heritage asset. So for me, this, this,"},{"t":16356,"text":"I know it's taken a long time. It's taken a"},{"t":16357,"text":"few years, but I think that the arc of this"},{"t":16360,"text":"project is landed in a good place where there is"},{"t":16363,"text":"the real prospect where they will have the financial means"},{"t":16366,"text":"necessary to solve their own seismic and maintenance issues, which"},{"t":16369,"text":"are not insubstantial. But also deliver value to the community"},{"t":16373,"text":"in a number of different ways. So I think this"},{"t":16374,"text":"will add to Victoria. I think we'll add to the"},{"t":16377,"text":"edge of downtown in Fairfield. And someday it'll be a"},{"t":16379,"text":"really vibrant village that I think all of us will"},{"t":16381,"text":"be proud to have supported. So mayor, this has my"},{"t":16384,"text":"full support moving forward. Thank you very much. Anyone else"},{"t":16388,"text":"like to comment on the main motion? Councillor Gardner. Thank"},{"t":16391,"text":"you, Mayor. My first experience with rezoning properly owned by"},{"t":16396,"text":"the diocese was in 2014. That's the first cathedral school"},{"t":16400,"text":"at 529 Agra was being rezoned facilitate a sale the"},{"t":16405,"text":"property. It too was contentious. For me, there are three"},{"t":16410,"text":"significant issues before us today. The cathedral. Millions are needed"},{"t":16414,"text":"to safeguard the structural integrity of the cathedral. Thotor donor"},{"t":16419,"text":"is willing to donate many millions of dollars. The diocese"},{"t":16422,"text":"has chosen the path of development of much of the"},{"t":16425,"text":"site to provide needed funding. This is balanced by the"},{"t":16429,"text":"need to preserve one of Victoria's important heritage landmarks. And"},{"t":16433,"text":"I support that. The public voice. With review of this"},{"t":16439,"text":"proposal, the review by the public has been flawed. The"},{"t":16443,"text":"failure to give clarity to residents and others is why"},{"t":16446,"text":"this is contentious. Staff did not fail, but others did."},{"t":16450,"text":"And this is important. Three. The planet is presented today."},{"t":16455,"text":"Well, the density lift from two FSR to 2. 4"},{"t":16460,"text":"does not seem to be a great leap, but it"},{"t":16462,"text":"is. That's a 20 percent increase. And of course, more"},{"t":16468,"text":"density and reduction of livability may come about. The density"},{"t":16473,"text":"must be on the east side of the full area"},{"t":16477,"text":"just to preserve the church or the church, the cathedral"},{"t":16481,"text":"and the common green area on the southwest corner. And"},{"t":16484,"text":"this really complex the whole proposal. So I came today"},{"t":16488,"text":"not knowing how I would vote. But the amendments have"},{"t":16491,"text":"firmed it up for me. More density and reduction of"},{"t":16494,"text":"livability. I don't want most of the outdoor space on"},{"t":16497,"text":"the east side of the property to be eliminated. And"},{"t":16500,"text":"I fear with a, let's add more density here and"},{"t":16503,"text":"there that that may happen. There was just too much"},{"t":16507,"text":"that is unknown right now. And again, as I mentioned,"},{"t":16510,"text":"the flawed consultation for the public. In the years ahead,"},{"t":16513,"text":"the DP applications may come before council. We will then"},{"t":16517,"text":"know what will really be happening at the site. Thank"},{"t":16520,"text":"you, Mayor. Thank you very much. Anyone else. Councillor Thompson."},{"t":16527,"text":"Thanks, Mayor. Um, and thanks through you to the staff"},{"t":16531,"text":"and to the, um, the church team. And thanks to"},{"t":16535,"text":"the members of the public who wrote in and emailed"},{"t":16538,"text":"and spoke to me in person, uh, enjoyed all those"},{"t":16541,"text":"conversations. I do think it's a very supportable project. The"},{"t":16546,"text":"cathedral is a very important part of Victoria's history and"},{"t":16550,"text":"heritage. It needs that seismic work. Um, as a lot"},{"t":16554,"text":"of buildings in Victoria do, um, we have beautiful older"},{"t":16559,"text":"buildings. And when the earthquake happens, not if we don't"},{"t":16563,"text":"want them to be a pile of stones, uh, causing"},{"t":16567,"text":"injury and death. So the challenge is paying for it."},{"t":16570,"text":"And this is, this is the way to pay for"},{"t":16572,"text":"it. Um, it'd be great if we had a big"},{"t":16576,"text":"donor. Just throw the money at it, but, uh, it's"},{"t":16579,"text":"not happened so far. Um, I did hear from members"},{"t":16582,"text":"of the public worried about the height near Vancouver Street."},{"t":16586,"text":"And the mayor's amendment, uh, helps to address that by"},{"t":16592,"text":"moving some of that, um, height, you know, the eight"},{"t":16596,"text":"stories down to six, uh, in that building and adding"},{"t":16599,"text":"it to the taller building. And I guess there's two"},{"t":16602,"text":"buildings where that, that height comes down to six and"},{"t":16605,"text":"goes on top of the 18 stories, which would take"},{"t":16607,"text":"it up to 22. Or I guess depends on the,"},{"t":16612,"text":"uh, floor plate and design. But, um, that partly addresses"},{"t":16617,"text":"the concern of one of the people that I spoke"},{"t":16619,"text":"to about, uh, the height, uh, near Vancouver Street. I"},{"t":16624,"text":"do want to ask a question of staff, um, because"},{"t":16627,"text":"this was asked of me, um, is there any opportunity"},{"t":16631,"text":"to move more of that density away from Vancouver, uh,"},{"t":16636,"text":"further west on the property, like South of the church."},{"t":16640,"text":"And I know that we've already discussed the First Nations"},{"t":16645,"text":"work that's being done there. And I wouldn't want to,"},{"t":16647,"text":"I'm not proposing that we disrupt that. But is there"},{"t":16650,"text":"any way that more of that density could be moved"},{"t":16653,"text":"to the West. Mr. Patazo. So through the mayor, the"},{"t":16662,"text":"sort of the primary locations that perhaps staff have identified"},{"t":16666,"text":"where density is most appropriate would be, um, you know,"},{"t":16670,"text":"we've got a building directly behind the cathedral at 12"},{"t":16672,"text":"stories. And then we've got one mid block at 18"},{"t":16675,"text":"stories. And so the addition to height to the 18"},{"t":16678,"text":"stories building is a, uh, reasonable option in terms of"},{"t":16682,"text":"relocating some of that density. Um, noting that the buildings"},{"t":16686,"text":"at the periphery are now down to six stories. Um,"},{"t":16690,"text":"the same as what's considered in those adjacent neighbourhoods as"},{"t":16693,"text":"well. And so, you know, all of the adjacencies are"},{"t":16696,"text":"all six stories. Um, so that's kind of consistent with,"},{"t":16699,"text":"um, the broader urban structure concept for the area as"},{"t":16703,"text":"a whole. Makes sense. Okay. Thanks. Thanks for that. Um."},{"t":16707,"text":"And then when it comes to, uh, Councillor Lauten's proposed"},{"t":16711,"text":"amendments and accepted, um, the distribution of the additional density,"},{"t":16716,"text":"um, if we can do it to get some, some"},{"t":16718,"text":"affordability, um, I'm, I'm comfortable with that being added, uh,"},{"t":16724,"text":"anywhere, um, I note that Council didn't give any direction"},{"t":16728,"text":"to throw it into any particular building or to avoid"},{"t":16732,"text":"any particular building. Could be the tower that's over 18"},{"t":16736,"text":"stories or it could be, uh, one of the smaller"},{"t":16739,"text":"ones. I don't know, um, I think we should keep"},{"t":16741,"text":"an open mind about that and address staff to work"},{"t":16744,"text":"with the applicant to make that happen. So overall, um,"},{"t":16749,"text":"great project. I'm thrilled, as somebody who toured the church"},{"t":16754,"text":"and had discussions about, um, how on earth you protect"},{"t":16759,"text":"it, seismically, uh, I think it's, it's going to be"},{"t":16762,"text":"a miracle to see that happen, uh, and I'm glad"},{"t":16765,"text":"that we can, uh, play a part in that by,"},{"t":16769,"text":"uh, allowing, uh, the financial conditions for that to go"},{"t":16773,"text":"forward. Thank you. Thank you very much. Anyone else. Councillor"},{"t":16777,"text":"Hammond. Thanks Mayor. Thank goodness I was given 15 minutes."},{"t":16783,"text":"I'll use it all up. Um, I'm kidding. But I"},{"t":16788,"text":"usually have stuff planned out. And this one, I'm just"},{"t":16790,"text":"going to go through, so this was the process I"},{"t":16792,"text":"went through last weekend when I looked at this. And"},{"t":16795,"text":"I started with, I think this one, this was the"},{"t":16797,"text":"one was the 19 page document. So I go through,"},{"t":16799,"text":"I'm making all these notes. And I didn't look anywhere"},{"t":16802,"text":"else yet. And so this is, I made a bit"},{"t":16804,"text":"of reference to this already, but these are some of"},{"t":16806,"text":"the points that I put, put in my notes. I"},{"t":16810,"text":"put in red and it says, you know, talking about"},{"t":16813,"text":"proposals consistent with the OCP, the core insofar lane use"},{"t":16817,"text":"guidance. However, Heritage values are challenged with the inclusion of"},{"t":16821,"text":"an 18 story building, which diminishes the prominence of a"},{"t":16825,"text":"Heritage Landmark building. Another one is the preservation and heritage"},{"t":16829,"text":"retention comes at the cost of impacts to a designated"},{"t":16834,"text":"heritage landscape. And the relocation of a Heritage registered building."},{"t":16839,"text":"And then this one I might have said, yeah. However,"},{"t":16842,"text":"the proposed, when I was talking about the downtown core,"},{"t":16844,"text":"however, the proposed building height and form of the 18"},{"t":16848,"text":"story building poses challenges for neighbourhood fit. And there were"},{"t":16855,"text":"other things that were also, you know, commented in there,"},{"t":16859,"text":"but I won't go into those. Okay. This is in"},{"t":16864,"text":"red. So I'll take a chance on what I, what"},{"t":16866,"text":"I put in red. Ideally a new use should be"},{"t":16868,"text":"introduced that has little to no impact on the heritage"},{"t":16871,"text":"value of the place. Adding housing to a culturally and"},{"t":16875,"text":"spiritually significant site is supportable. However, the density being, um,"},{"t":16880,"text":"applied for in this application significantly impacts the heritage district"},{"t":16885,"text":"and will dramatically alter the spatial relationships and experience of"},{"t":16888,"text":"the historic site. Uh, and then also staffed work with"},{"t":16892,"text":"the applicant to come up with a scheme that will"},{"t":16894,"text":"minimize impact on the Heritage value of the place. However,"},{"t":16898,"text":"the density proposed will undoubtedly have an impact. And so"},{"t":16903,"text":"the focus has been to reduce the heights of the"},{"t":16906,"text":"buildings. You know, so that was to take it from"},{"t":16908,"text":"higher where it was. So I'm going through this, and,"},{"t":16911,"text":"you know, so it's, I'm, I'm being told by staff,"},{"t":16913,"text":"accept it, um, you know, look, there's good things. And"},{"t":16917,"text":"each, not each time, but as I read, it was"},{"t":16919,"text":"like, but watch out for this. Have you got the"},{"t":16923,"text":"picture of the, um, the rendering is that, can you"},{"t":16927,"text":"pull that up. Which one."},{"t":16939,"text":"So while this being pulled up, let me just put"},{"t":16941,"text":"it this way. I was really pleased that. That I."},{"t":16948,"text":"Got in close. Yeah. So I was really pleased that"},{"t":16953,"text":"I saw this first, right? Like I wasn't, you know,"},{"t":16956,"text":"I work in the field of human rights. And I"},{"t":16958,"text":"talk about stereotypes and how they can impact. And so"},{"t":16961,"text":"I didn't have the height. And so I just had"},{"t":16964,"text":"to report, which is saying positive things, but okay, you"},{"t":16967,"text":"know, heights a little bit much. Then I went to"},{"t":16969,"text":"this. And I thought, thank goodness I've read that first"},{"t":16973,"text":"before I saw that because that would have really tainted"},{"t":16977,"text":"my view on anything that I was reading. So the"},{"t":16980,"text":"thing is, like I get it, you know, it's, um,"},{"t":16982,"text":"it was good reasons in order to do it. But"},{"t":16984,"text":"when you look at that neighbourhood, and even if to"},{"t":16989,"text":"the west and a little bit to the north, there's"},{"t":16992,"text":"going to be changes that are coming about. Also the"},{"t":16995,"text":"why, the proposal that is going to be coming back"},{"t":16997,"text":"to us across from the why that we just had"},{"t":16999,"text":"last week. Sure, that's going to change it. But that"},{"t":17002,"text":"is massive going into Fairfield and therefore into other communities."},{"t":17007,"text":"So for me, and I thought I'm probably just going"},{"t":17011,"text":"to be the only one who's opposed to this. But"},{"t":17014,"text":"it's, it's just, it's just too much. And the interesting"},{"t":17018,"text":"thing is that this church is not immune to issues"},{"t":17023,"text":"that go on in the community and the impact that"},{"t":17027,"text":"their decisions make on the community. And I remember 10"},{"t":17032,"text":"years ago, this month, there was an article in the"},{"t":17035,"text":"Times colonist. And it was about Dean is at Ainsley"},{"t":17040,"text":"Tucker at the time. Where she said the tent city,"},{"t":17045,"text":"the encampment across the street has got to go. And"},{"t":17049,"text":"up until then, the church was supportive of the, um,"},{"t":17053,"text":"of what was going on for these people who were"},{"t":17055,"text":"homeless and the encampment. And they can't, even they came"},{"t":17059,"text":"to the conclusion, an organisation that. Jesus would be pretty"},{"t":17064,"text":"happy about them taking the stand on helping people that"},{"t":17066,"text":"were across the street, but because the dangers were so"},{"t":17070,"text":"great, even this church said, this thing has got to"},{"t":17074,"text":"go. So they're not immune to the impact for themselves"},{"t":17078,"text":"and their community. And the difficulty is, I think that"},{"t":17082,"text":"the impact on the community is going to be too"},{"t":17085,"text":"great. And then the notion that now I'm hearing this"},{"t":17088,"text":"potential for this to go even higher and more dense,"},{"t":17092,"text":"uh, just means I think there's more concerns. I don't"},{"t":17095,"text":"live in that neighbourhood used to. I don't live right"},{"t":17098,"text":"in that neighbourhood now. Um, who knows how long before"},{"t":17102,"text":"this actually comes to fruition. So there could be a"},{"t":17105,"text":"lot of people that are going to be in seniors"},{"t":17106,"text":"homes by that point. There's some of us maybe like"},{"t":17108,"text":"myself. And maybe I'll be dead by that point. And"},{"t":17111,"text":"if I was living in the neighbourhood and I wouldn't"},{"t":17112,"text":"have to worry about it, but for those people that"},{"t":17115,"text":"are there, um, that's going to have a big impact."},{"t":17120,"text":"And it's, it's just, I just think it's too much."},{"t":17123,"text":"So I'll be voting against it. Thanks Mayor. Thank you"},{"t":17126,"text":"very much. Anybody else? Any of my points? Councillor Kim."},{"t":17132,"text":"Through the chair. Thank you. Um, I, I actually want"},{"t":17135,"text":"to put my remarks in a bigger context here. Um,"},{"t":17139,"text":"I want to recognise that the, uh, project in front"},{"t":17143,"text":"of us, to me, I see it as, uh, response"},{"t":17147,"text":"to a changing society. We are in a context where"},{"t":17151,"text":"faith - based orgs are increasingly challenged in a number"},{"t":17154,"text":"of ways. Um, and one could argue that the new"},{"t":17158,"text":"faith is the Almighty Dollar. And so, um, I really"},{"t":17161,"text":"appreciate how this, uh, the proponent is trying to maintain"},{"t":17168,"text":"relevance to community and people and society in a context"},{"t":17173,"text":"where, um, economics is the language du jour. And I"},{"t":17180,"text":"want to recognise that this is unique because it kind"},{"t":17185,"text":"of, uh, symbolizes a pivot in the way we conceptualize"},{"t":17189,"text":"faith - based spaces and housing and community and how"},{"t":17193,"text":"they come together. And so on that note, um, thanks"},{"t":17197,"text":"to the applicant for being willing to, um, envision themselves"},{"t":17202,"text":"in a unique way as well. Thank you to the"},{"t":17204,"text":"staff, um, navigating a very unique application. I can't imagine"},{"t":17209,"text":"it was easy, but you did it. You're here. And"},{"t":17213,"text":"you deserve whatever cold beverage you're going to drink at"},{"t":17215,"text":"the end of the day today. Thanks. Thank you very"},{"t":17219,"text":"much. Anybody else. That's your bell. Sure. Uh, I want"},{"t":17224,"text":"to speak. I do have an image I just wanted"},{"t":17225,"text":"to show up, pull up really quickly. Just for some"},{"t":17231,"text":"context. So this is a Christchurch Cathedral of Montreal here."},{"t":17235,"text":"And that's the KPMG building behind it. Which is 34"},{"t":17239,"text":"stories tall and was actually built in, uh, 1987. And"},{"t":17244,"text":"this is just one image. There's lots you can Google"},{"t":17246,"text":"Christchurch Cathedral Montreal and lots of images from different angles"},{"t":17250,"text":"that all look pretty cool and show this building, uh,"},{"t":17254,"text":"in a really beautiful spot in the downtown. And I"},{"t":17257,"text":"think in some ways when you look at it, some"},{"t":17259,"text":"of the buildings around it help bring focus to the"},{"t":17261,"text":"building. And I guess, I guess we won't know. But"},{"t":17265,"text":"for right now, how that's going to look. But when"},{"t":17267,"text":"I look at this, uh, application, I think the potential"},{"t":17269,"text":"to make some really beautiful housing buildings that fit the"},{"t":17272,"text":"context better, maybe a little better than the KPMG glass,"},{"t":17276,"text":"but that's from the 80s. So who knows what they"},{"t":17278,"text":"were doing back then. Um, so I'm really supportive of"},{"t":17282,"text":"this project overall. I think it's, it's a beautiful site."},{"t":17284,"text":"It's an important, uh, important, uh, institution that wants to"},{"t":17287,"text":"help out preserve their site and provide more housing. They've"},{"t":17290,"text":"been at this project for, I think at least four"},{"t":17293,"text":"years with many iterations and community work and consultations. And"},{"t":17298,"text":"what I think staff of that an excellent job on"},{"t":17299,"text":"working with them and trying to find a balance that,"},{"t":17302,"text":"that works for the city. And it's kind of a"},{"t":17304,"text":"monumental day that we finally get to move this forward."},{"t":17306,"text":"So I'm not that concerned that in the future, the"},{"t":17309,"text":"housing is going to hurt the, hurt the site. I"},{"t":17311,"text":"think it is going to support it. Uh, and help"},{"t":17313,"text":"bring mixed use and to kind of revitalize that into"},{"t":17316,"text":"a cathedral district or cathedral village. So, um, yeah, I'm"},{"t":17320,"text":"happy to support today. Thank you very much. I believe"},{"t":17324,"text":"everyone who wishes to speak has done so. I won't"},{"t":17329,"text":"repeat all of the positive comments. I'll simply echo them."},{"t":17332,"text":"The word that comes to mind when I look at"},{"t":17333,"text":"this is elegance. And that is the sense of how"},{"t":17338,"text":"a very potentially dire circumstance has been turned into a"},{"t":17341,"text":"remarkable opportunity that will, I think, meet many important policies"},{"t":17346,"text":"that the city has adopted and refreshed, but also provide"},{"t":17350,"text":"an extraordinary opportunity for our residents'current and future to be"},{"t":17354,"text":"part of something substantial, unique and iconic. And so for"},{"t":17360,"text":"those reasons, I want to thank the proponents for sticking"},{"t":17363,"text":"to this for so many years, our staff for being"},{"t":17366,"text":"their guides and being obviously very well prepared and talented"},{"t":17372,"text":"guides to see this for us today. It is a"},{"t":17375,"text":"pleasure to support this. And I hope it's an example"},{"t":17378,"text":"of what can be done in the face of challenge."},{"t":17381,"text":"When many different interests get together for a common good."},{"t":17385,"text":"So thank you. All those in favor. That would be"},{"t":17390,"text":"Councillor Dell, Councillor Kim. My Councillor Carried on at Councillor"},{"t":17393,"text":"Loton myself and Councillor Thompson. In opposition, Councillor Hammond and"},{"t":17398,"text":"to Councillor Gardner. And of course, noting that, uh, Councillor"},{"t":17401,"text":"Coleman had been recused from the matter for his conflict."},{"t":17405,"text":"Uh, noting to, in opposition, that motion as amended has"},{"t":17409,"text":"been adopted. And so we look forward to the rest"},{"t":17411,"text":"of the process. Thank you very much, everyone. We will"},{"t":17414,"text":"move on then to two items of new business. The"},{"t":17416,"text":"first of which was placed on our consent agenda. That"},{"t":17419,"text":"is item H1. That was the Council MemberMotion on Advocacy"},{"t":17423,"text":"to extend local government climate action program funding. That was"},{"t":17427,"text":"on consent, as I mentioned. And so that will return"},{"t":17429,"text":"to us for final consideration at a future daytime council,"},{"t":17433,"text":"which takes us to our last item of our committee"},{"t":17435,"text":"agenda, which is item H2. Also a council member of"},{"t":17439,"text":"motion about increasing protections for Victoria Renters. We'd like to"},{"t":17444,"text":"move that. Councillor Thompson's movieing, Councillor Cardona's second in Councillor"},{"t":17448,"text":"Thompson, would you like to motivate? Um, yes, Mayor, thank"},{"t":17452,"text":"you very much. Um, uh, renters are the majority of,"},{"t":17457,"text":"uh, the residents of Victoria. And we are and have"},{"t":17461,"text":"been for many years in a rental housing crisis. Um,"},{"t":17465,"text":"we've had, as we've discussed here with staff many times,"},{"t":17469,"text":"we've had a vacancy rate following downzoning blanket"},{"t":17479,"text":"downzoning of the city a few decades ago. What that"},{"t":17485,"text":"did was, uh, it stopped effectively a lot of apartments"},{"t":17490,"text":"from being developed. Created a shortage. Uh, raised rents dramatically."},{"t":17497,"text":"And now, uh, a lot of renters are in the"},{"t":17500,"text":"situation where, uh, if there is redevelopment of their properties,"},{"t":17505,"text":"um, they face demoviction. And as I mentioned in the"},{"t":17509,"text":"previous item, uh, that's been exacerbated by the fact that"},{"t":17513,"text":"zoning for many decades has constrained apartment construction to areas"},{"t":17519,"text":"where there's already apartments, um, we're starting to see that"},{"t":17522,"text":"loosening off, uh, now with the policies developed over the"},{"t":17527,"text":"last few years, including, uh, are missing middle, and the"},{"t":17531,"text":"provincial equivalent, uh, and our recent OCP. So, uh, things"},{"t":17536,"text":"are starting to improve also partly due to other policy"},{"t":17543,"text":"and economic developments across the city and across the country."},{"t":17549,"text":"Anyways, what we're seeing now is vacancy rate a little"},{"t":17553,"text":"bit above three percent building. I think it's time to"},{"t":17559,"text":"just keep going as we're going. Um, because we want"},{"t":17563,"text":"that, uh, we want that vacancy rate up around four"},{"t":17566,"text":"percent. And we wanted to stay there permanently. We don't"},{"t":17570,"text":"want to go back to one percent or last vacancy"},{"t":17573,"text":"rate. But in the meantime, we do have people who"},{"t":17576,"text":"are suffering, uh, and have a lot of challenges when"},{"t":17581,"text":"they're in their places, in their rental places, uh, and,"},{"t":17586,"text":"um, as they're looking for places. Um, and so this,"},{"t":17591,"text":"this motion is intended through those points that are on"},{"t":17595,"text":"the screen, one through six, to address some of those"},{"t":17599,"text":"problems that have been developed by that housing shortage that"},{"t":17603,"text":"the city created and the cities across North America have"},{"t":17606,"text":"created. So, uh, several specific ones, and I won't, um,"},{"t":17612,"text":"extend our meeting by going through each one of those."},{"t":17616,"text":"Um, this has been published for six days now, uh,"},{"t":17619,"text":"people have had a good chance to look at it."},{"t":17622,"text":"Um, I may come back to some of those if"},{"t":17624,"text":"they, if they seem to be controversial, but I note"},{"t":17627,"text":"that this was pulled from consent for a question. So"},{"t":17629,"text":"I'll just, uh, end my comments there. Thanks, Mayor. Councillor"},{"t":17633,"text":"Codona is the secondary. Thanks very much, Mayor. And I"},{"t":17635,"text":"will note that this is a request for report back."},{"t":17640,"text":"And it also doesn't have a timeline on it. So"},{"t":17642,"text":"it, it's actually unlikely that this would occur by the"},{"t":17645,"text":"end of the mandate, which is actually fine because part"},{"t":17649,"text":"of my interest in supporting this is thinking about a"},{"t":17653,"text":"one year review on the work that we did around"},{"t":17657,"text":"the OCP and the tenant protection during rate development bylaw."},{"t":17663,"text":"And remind me when we finalise EOC, was it October"},{"t":17666,"text":"or November. Mr. Jones is October, was it not? Last"},{"t":17670,"text":"October? Yes. October. So in October, it will have been"},{"t":17674,"text":"a year. And I'm, I'm a bit like how we"},{"t":17677,"text":"approach missing middle. I think it's smart to have a"},{"t":17679,"text":"six month or a one year update to really understand"},{"t":17682,"text":"if these new policies are working. I'm really want to"},{"t":17684,"text":"know if our policies are delivering the market and non"},{"t":17688,"text":"- market rental housing that we had assumed they would."},{"t":17692,"text":"I really would like to know if the tenant protection"},{"t":17693,"text":"bylaw is working. We had a very robust debate last"},{"t":17696,"text":"year about whether or not the terms and conditions were"},{"t":17699,"text":"sufficient. The amount of compensation that would go to displace"},{"t":17702,"text":"tenants, et cetera, et cetera. I'd love to know, you"},{"t":17704,"text":"know, after year one of that bylaw, how many people"},{"t":17707,"text":"were displaced in staff's assessment is the level of compensation"},{"t":17711,"text":"adequate or does it need to be adjusted? I think"},{"t":17714,"text":"those are really pressing questions for the city right now"},{"t":17717,"text":"as it grows intensifies. And then a couple of others,"},{"t":17721,"text":"I also won't go through all of them, but the"},{"t":17724,"text":"rental property standards of maintenance bylaw is a bylaw that"},{"t":17726,"text":"precedes us that came out, I think in the previous"},{"t":17728,"text":"mandate. It's my understanding that it lacks a little bit"},{"t":17731,"text":"of teeth. So I think it would be interesting to"},{"t":17733,"text":"have an analysis on what could be done to add"},{"t":17735,"text":"a little bit more compliance enforcement to that bylaw to"},{"t":17739,"text":"ensure that renters are living in safe, inhabitable locations. And"},{"t":17745,"text":"as temperatures rise through climate change, the question of comfort"},{"t":17750,"text":"and going back to the conversation we had around the"},{"t":17752,"text":"26 degree Celsius max temperature, I think that that's becoming"},{"t":17755,"text":"more germane to the conversation around standards of maintenance. I"},{"t":17759,"text":"think in the past, it was more about, I don't"},{"t":17762,"text":"know, whether or not you had a safe furnace or"},{"t":17764,"text":"things like that. But now it's also about, are you"},{"t":17765,"text":"actually safe in your unit and you're not going to"},{"t":17769,"text":"overheat. So a number of these adjustments sort of piling"},{"t":17773,"text":"up, uh, you know, they're not necessarily like connected to"},{"t":17776,"text":"each other. But I think it will be good, whether"},{"t":17778,"text":"it comes back in this mandate or the next mandate"},{"t":17780,"text":"for council to have an update on whether or not"},{"t":17784,"text":"our policies around renters are working. And if there's an"},{"t":17786,"text":"opportunity for some, some greater policy interventions to ensure that"},{"t":17790,"text":"we're supporting tenants into the level that we should be."},{"t":17792,"text":"Thanks, Mayor. Thank you very much. Anyone else feels Councillor"},{"t":17796,"text":"Hammond. Thanks Mayor. Actually, I was just going to leave"},{"t":17800,"text":"this on consent, but being that the opportunity to, uh,"},{"t":17804,"text":"bring that up. I was wondering if, um, I could"},{"t":17808,"text":"get a little bit of a, an update on number"},{"t":17810,"text":"three. It says the first year of the tenant protection"},{"t":17813,"text":"during redevelopment bylaw, whether it may be necessary to strengthen"},{"t":17817,"text":"it. I'm under the impression that on May of last"},{"t":17820,"text":"year, I brought, I think, Councillor Gardner and I brought"},{"t":17824,"text":"forward a Council Member motion asking that the, um, the"},{"t":17829,"text":"protections and the monthly payments would go up substantially as"},{"t":17834,"text":"far as 18 months for 18 years or more. And,"},{"t":17840,"text":"uh, I ended up voting against it because, um, I"},{"t":17844,"text":"found that it was so diluted that it wasted the"},{"t":17847,"text":"time. That being said, in that motion, it stated that"},{"t":17851,"text":"we would get a report back in six months. And"},{"t":17854,"text":"since I just heard after the OCP. And so since"},{"t":17859,"text":"we heard from our director that that was in October,"},{"t":17863,"text":"because I couldn't remember whether it was the October 2nd"},{"t":17864,"text":"or whatever it was. Then so we're past the six"},{"t":17867,"text":"months. So I was wondering being that we haven't got"},{"t":17869,"text":"anything, and I don't mean to push on that, but"},{"t":17872,"text":"is there anything you can tell us on what is"},{"t":17874,"text":"happening with that request. Mr. Johnston. Thank you. Through the"},{"t":17881,"text":"mayor, um, I appreciate the opportunity to provide an update."},{"t":17885,"text":"We have, um, completed or just are in the process"},{"t":17888,"text":"of completing the analysis of the, uh, the bylaw, um,"},{"t":17893,"text":"preparing a report back to council. And, um, we anticipate"},{"t":17896,"text":"that could, that could be in the near term, um,"},{"t":17899,"text":"don't have an exact date yet, but, uh, I appreciate"},{"t":17903,"text":"that would likely come shortly to counsel. Okay. Right. Thanks"},{"t":17907,"text":"very much. Um, for that through the mirror. Um, then"},{"t":17910,"text":"I don't have any more questions about this. And it"},{"t":17913,"text":"certainly seems fine. Again, I was going to leave it"},{"t":17914,"text":"in consent. But I was wondering if, um, I could"},{"t":17917,"text":"make an amendment number seven. And so if I could"},{"t":17920,"text":"get legislative services to put forward that amendment."},{"t":17931,"text":"Sorry, I shouldn't laugh at you. Seven. Go ahead, Councillor"},{"t":17939,"text":"Heming. Please put a baby. Um, I just presumed looking"},{"t":17943,"text":"at this that, um, uh, this is something in which"},{"t":17946,"text":"all of us would be able to say how important"},{"t":17949,"text":"in the fall election, um, tenants and renters are and"},{"t":17953,"text":"how we want to make them, we want to give"},{"t":17955,"text":"them more protection. And so I thought as opposed to"},{"t":17958,"text":"waiting until the next term, um, that this would be"},{"t":17961,"text":"particularly effective to be used for this election. Thanks Mayor."},{"t":17966,"text":"Councillor Gardner is the second or anything that thank you"},{"t":17969,"text":"very much. And I think it's a wonderful amendment. And"},{"t":17971,"text":"I have to say even coming here and talking to"},{"t":17974,"text":"people during the day, they all say, boy, these are"},{"t":17977,"text":"sure. Election motions aren't they. And, and I mean, so"},{"t":17980,"text":"let's, let's acknowledge it. It's true. And that's what it's"},{"t":17984,"text":"all about. And, uh, we're getting a lot of those"},{"t":17987,"text":"recently. So, uh, I quite appreciate this one. This amendment."},{"t":17993,"text":"Anyone else on the amendment? The amendment is in order."},{"t":17996,"text":"It is reflective directly of the rest of the one"},{"t":17998,"text":"through six. So I would probably suggest a slight amendment"},{"t":18001,"text":"to the amendment, but I'll leave that on the table."},{"t":18003,"text":"Councillor Thompson. It's a, it's a, it's a fun stunt."},{"t":18009,"text":"And I'm glad that the mover and second aren't doing"},{"t":18011,"text":"anything political these days. Uh, but I just wondered if"},{"t":18015,"text":"I have a question for staff, um, good wording to"},{"t":18017,"text":"use an election material. Does that get us into any"},{"t":18019,"text":"kind of trouble if this does go ahead. I'm going"},{"t":18024,"text":"to suspect that it would, uh, only because of the"},{"t":18027,"text":"fact that, uh, it is more appropriate for us not"},{"t":18030,"text":"to particularly use the work of the city, specifically for"},{"t":18034,"text":"political reasons. What you do with that is up to"},{"t":18038,"text":"you as an individual council member, but I was actually"},{"t":18041,"text":"going to suggest an amendment to the amendment, which would"},{"t":18043,"text":"actually end the sentence after election. Because use is not"},{"t":18051,"text":"necessarily political and it would in fact, I think, protect"},{"t":18053,"text":"the city, which is always my interest from being embroiled"},{"t":18057,"text":"in any type of suggestion that the city itself has"},{"t":18059,"text":"an operational unit, as a corporation, was involving itself in"},{"t":18063,"text":"election material. So I will move that amendment to the"},{"t":18066,"text":"amendment that the, uh, words after the word election are"},{"t":18070,"text":"deleted. And thank you, Councillor Hammond for a seconding that."},{"t":18074,"text":"So on the amendment to the amendment, which I think"},{"t":18078,"text":"I'll just speak to that briefly. Thank you for a"},{"t":18080,"text":"second to get leaves the portion that is most humorous"},{"t":18084,"text":"and perhaps what I had interpreted as the intention bind"},{"t":18087,"text":"it, but protects the city in removing any reference to"},{"t":18090,"text":"election materials, which is always, I think, I think we"},{"t":18092,"text":"should all have that in our front of mind as"},{"t":18095,"text":"we're here projecting the city at all costs. So anything"},{"t":18098,"text":"to add, Councillor Hemet on the amendment to the amendment."},{"t":18101,"text":"Just to reiterate to always have the best interests of"},{"t":18104,"text":"the city in mind and to protect our integrity. Indeed."},{"t":18107,"text":"So on the amendment to the amendment to delete the"},{"t":18109,"text":"words that are struck through, all those in favor. Anybody"},{"t":18113,"text":"oppose, dead is unanimous. Thank you. Uh, on the remaining"},{"t":18117,"text":"portion of the amendment, anybody else. Oh my, okay. Councillor"},{"t":18124,"text":"Kim, Councillor Cardona, Councillor Lothen on the remaining emotion, the"},{"t":18129,"text":"amendment rather wording Council Kim. Thanks through the chair. I"},{"t":18133,"text":"would flag that there is a good chance that the"},{"t":18137,"text":"analysis won't be flattering and we should also be ready"},{"t":18140,"text":"for that. That's all. Very true. Council Carano. Uh, thanks,"},{"t":18144,"text":"Mary. I don't find any of this funny at all."},{"t":18146,"text":"And I don't think it's good governance for us to"},{"t":18148,"text":"be making these kinds of jokes. I oppose this dumb"},{"t":18151,"text":"jokey amendment because the reason that there's not a timeline"},{"t":18155,"text":"on this is that it will take some time. And"},{"t":18157,"text":"if there's a timeline placed on it, it all of"},{"t":18159,"text":"a sudden bumps to the top of staffs work plan."},{"t":18162,"text":"And they have other things to do. I mean, part"},{"t":18164,"text":"of it was taking a head because the OCP was"},{"t":18166,"text":"approved in October. So if there's going to be a"},{"t":18168,"text":"one year analysis for a number of these things. And"},{"t":18170,"text":"it sounds like the Tena Protection during redevelopment bylaws coming"},{"t":18173,"text":"back sooner, in which case that's great. But the rest"},{"t":18175,"text":"of it will take some time. And I think we"},{"t":18177,"text":"need 12 months of data to actually do a proper"},{"t":18181,"text":"analysis. So I don't find this funny. And I don't"},{"t":18183,"text":"want to bump this to the top of staff's work"},{"t":18185,"text":"pile at all. So I suggest we vote against this"},{"t":18188,"text":"and it should have been ruled out of order, frankly."},{"t":18192,"text":"Very good. Thank you Councillor Lotton. You had your hand"},{"t":18194,"text":"up previously. Mr. Gamer, I was actually. On the motion"},{"t":18199,"text":"as a whole. Okay. And hold that, just hold that"},{"t":18202,"text":"thought. I'll come back to you. Uh, anyone else on"},{"t":18204,"text":"the amendment. Councillor Loew. Councillor Coleman, writer, sorry. Well, just"},{"t":18209,"text":"a question through you to staff. What does this do"},{"t":18212,"text":"to your work plan. Mr. Johnston, if you had a"},{"t":18219,"text":"deadline that essentially is, I guess September, October. How does"},{"t":18224,"text":"that, what impact does that have? Through the mayor, maybe"},{"t":18229,"text":"I'll start and then I'll turn it over to, um,"},{"t":18233,"text":"manage your close to add any comments that she may"},{"t":18236,"text":"have on the impacts. Um, but I just wanted to"},{"t":18239,"text":"note that, uh, as one of the priority implementation actions"},{"t":18242,"text":"coming out of the OCP, uh, staff are preparing a"},{"t":18246,"text":"monitoring and evaluation framework, um, for near and long term"},{"t":18251,"text":"monitoring of progress. Um, uh, which would include on all"},{"t":18255,"text":"of the new tools that, uh, that, that came into"},{"t":18260,"text":"place with the OCP update, um, which would include a"},{"t":18263,"text":"number of the things covered off in this motion. Um,"},{"t":18266,"text":"and a baseline and early trends report, uh, was targeted"},{"t":18270,"text":"for, uh, mid 2027, giving enough time to kind of"},{"t":18274,"text":"see how these new policies and regulations have landed. So"},{"t":18279,"text":"that was the sort of timeline that we are operating"},{"t":18282,"text":"on right now based on the previous direction from council"},{"t":18285,"text":"accelerating some of this work would have an impact on,"},{"t":18288,"text":"on other, uh, work that is currently underway. Um, and"},{"t":18293,"text":"I'll just turn it over to, nope, nothing to add."},{"t":18295,"text":"So that's everything I've got. Anything else, Council Goleman? Well,"},{"t":18299,"text":"yes. Um, this is exactly what we did to staff"},{"t":18304,"text":"with the OCP in shortening it. And then it got"},{"t":18307,"text":"shortened again. Um, and I think it leaves some holes."},{"t":18312,"text":"I think the request for the information is absolutely valid."},{"t":18317,"text":"But when we speed up timelines, um, it does have"},{"t":18322,"text":"an impact on other staffing requests. And as someone who"},{"t":18327,"text":"hasn't said publicly whether I'm going to run again or"},{"t":18331,"text":"not, our job is still to manage city ordinances perfectly."},{"t":18337,"text":"It's not an election issue. It will become for all"},{"t":18340,"text":"of us or none of us, if we all choose"},{"t":18342,"text":"not to do. But at the moment, um, I don't"},{"t":18345,"text":"think doing, laying this on staff to get back on"},{"t":18348,"text":"a shortened timeline is fair. So I will vote against"},{"t":18351,"text":"it. Thank you. I am actually going to request that"},{"t":18356,"text":"anyone who has already spoken not to do so again,"},{"t":18359,"text":"given the rest of our agenda that would therefore, um,"},{"t":18363,"text":"suggest that Councillor Gardner, unless you have a burning desire"},{"t":18365,"text":"to speak twice, I'm going to go first to Councillor"},{"t":18367,"text":"Thompson. Yes, you did. On the amendment. You did. You"},{"t":18370,"text":"were the seconder in fact. And you spoke to it"},{"t":18373,"text":"already. Oh, not after you cut off. That doesn't matter."},{"t":18377,"text":"You've already spoken to the amendment, which is the original."},{"t":18380,"text":"Quick learning. Mr. Thompson, go ahead, please. I did speak"},{"t":18385,"text":"to the. No, you did not. Okay. Nope. I just"},{"t":18390,"text":"wanted to say that we've removed the illegal bit, but"},{"t":18393,"text":"we haven't yet removed the bad public policy bit. And"},{"t":18396,"text":"so I'll be a voting against that. Okay. Councillor Gardner."},{"t":18402,"text":"It's not amusing, but what's true is this. Many months"},{"t":18405,"text":"ago I suggested that the motions be cut down in"},{"t":18409,"text":"the number that come forward. And what have we seen"},{"t":18412,"text":"posturing after posturing after posturing many of them? You want"},{"t":18415,"text":"to maybe pick this someone out to say we don't"},{"t":18417,"text":"want to go forward with it. I get that. But"},{"t":18420,"text":"please, what do you think we've been doing for the"},{"t":18422,"text":"last several months, the same kind of motion after motion"},{"t":18425,"text":"and week after week Councillor Gardner, I'm going to at"},{"t":18428,"text":"this point because now you are to degrading into invective,"},{"t":18431,"text":"which we're trying to keep a little bit in the"},{"t":18433,"text":"house. Thank you very much, Mayor. Anyone else who is"},{"t":18436,"text":"desperately wanting to speak to this amendment. I'm going to"},{"t":18438,"text":"call the question. All those in favor of the amendment."},{"t":18443,"text":"Councillor how many Councillor Gardner. I take it that in"},{"t":18445,"text":"opposition is Councillor Dell. Councillor Kim, Councillor Corona, Councillor Loton"},{"t":18449,"text":"myself, Councillor Coleman and Councillor Thompson. So that amendment is"},{"t":18453,"text":"not adopted noting that there are seven N opposition. Back"},{"t":18458,"text":"on the main motion, I have still Councillor Lotin. Very"},{"t":18463,"text":"quickly through you, Mayor. I just, I just want to"},{"t":18465,"text":"note that recently I've had some correspondence with a residence"},{"t":18470,"text":"that resident that's really having trouble in their building. And"},{"t":18474,"text":"the rental property and standards of maintenance bylaw would really"},{"t":18478,"text":"help. But it's very difficult to enforce. So I really"},{"t":18481,"text":"appreciate that that number one is there. And we, the"},{"t":18486,"text":"livability and securing affordability for renters, we all know this"},{"t":18492,"text":"is critically important. And I'm just going to reiterate some,"},{"t":18496,"text":"some stats that we all know. And I just, they've"},{"t":18499,"text":"gone up a little bit, I think since we heard"},{"t":18502,"text":"from the last, um, annual housing review, but 27 percent"},{"t":18507,"text":"of renters in Victoria are in courthousing needs, spending more"},{"t":18510,"text":"than 30 percent of their, um, before tax household income"},{"t":18516,"text":"on rent. And extreme core housing needs spending more than"},{"t":18522,"text":"50 percent of their before tax household income on rent."},{"t":18527,"text":"So this is actually critically important work. Thank you very"},{"t":18531,"text":"much. Thank you. Anyone else on the main motion, Beltrand."},{"t":18538,"text":"I'll say it's important work. And I would say that"},{"t":18540,"text":"if when we came up with the OCP and we"},{"t":18543,"text":"had the opportunity to give more protections for tenants, um,"},{"t":18547,"text":"so that people are up to, what is it, 19"},{"t":18550,"text":"years or more in an apartment. Our plan only has"},{"t":18556,"text":"and our bylaw only has up to six months. In"},{"t":18558,"text":"addition to some other, um, for moving and other things"},{"t":18561,"text":"along those lines. So we wanted more protection for tenants."},{"t":18564,"text":"We wouldn't be suggesting that older buildings that have a"},{"t":18569,"text":"lot of people who do have supportive housing in them"},{"t":18571,"text":"now. And if not a supportive, I should say affordable"},{"t":18574,"text":"housing in it now. We have a plan that kicks"},{"t":18577,"text":"them out of their apartments. And then they go back"},{"t":18580,"text":"into, um, market rents, which are much higher with maybe"},{"t":18584,"text":"protections of coming back at which for many people would"},{"t":18590,"text":"that would still be higher than what they were at."},{"t":18592,"text":"And for many people, even if it was slightly better,"},{"t":18594,"text":"they were not going to upgrade, um, sort of just"},{"t":18598,"text":"move their lives around, uh, for the second time in"},{"t":18601,"text":"two years of their boats. So if we want real"},{"t":18603,"text":"protections, we could have done it. We did not, or"},{"t":18606,"text":"at least the majority did not. Thank you. Anybody else"},{"t":18610,"text":"on the main motion. Also the main motion? Okay. I"},{"t":18617,"text":"mean, motion seconded and discussed all those in favor Councillor"},{"t":18622,"text":"Dell, Councillor Kim, Councillor Cardona, Councillor Lotten myself, Mr. Coleman,"},{"t":18626,"text":"Coster Hammond, Coster Gardner and Councillor Thompson. That is in"},{"t":18629,"text":"fact unanimous. Uh, thank you very much. That would take"},{"t":18632,"text":"us to a closed meeting. If that was required, but"},{"t":18636,"text":"that is not required today at committee. And so I"},{"t":18639,"text":"would look for motion to adjourn. Thanks Councillor Coleman, second"},{"t":18642,"text":"by Councillor Kim. All those in favor. Anyone opposed. That"},{"t":18646,"text":"is unanimous. Since we did get up not too long"},{"t":18648,"text":"ago, let us just take a few minutes until stuff"},{"t":18651,"text":"can convert us into our daytime council meeting."}],"words":51568,"fetchedAt":"2026-10-03T05:31:00.090Z"}