Transcript: Council Meeting - 2026-07-20

Okay. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to your Council chamber for Monday, July 20th. We're gathered this evening for the purpose of a Council meeting. And we're going to begin, as we always do, in a good way, with a territorial acknowledgement and inclusivity statement. And to deliver that this evening, I'm going to turn it over to Councillor Bryce.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It is appropriate that we begin by acknowledging the district of Saanich lies within the territories of the Lekwungen peoples represented by the Songhees and Esquimalt nations, and the Weissanich peoples represented by the Sartlip, Pakuchin, Siout Sachem and Malahat nations. We are committed to celebrating the rich diversity of people in our community. We are guided by the principle that embracing diversity enriches the lives of all people. We all share the responsibility for creating an equitable and inclusive community Community and for addressing discrimination in all forms.

Thank you, Councillor Bryce. Public input has always been an important item on our Council meeting agendas and welcomed here in person. Saanich encourages public input via email or written submission in person or by video on Ms. Teams. For those wishing to address counsel on Ms. Teams, the link is available at Saanich CA Agendas. The Deputy Corporate Officer will provide further details on providing input prior to the public input portion of this evening's agenda. This meeting is being live webcast and by participating in the webcast you're consenting to being recorded. Personal information, including your image and personal opinions, may be collected and disclosed as part of Council's proceedings on the video.

The recording will be available on the district's website for future access. When presenting to Council, we ask that you please do not include any third party information, including talking about others as you may be disclosing other people's personal information without their consent. The Council Chamber is a place for respectful dialogue and behavior or language that is disruptive or harmful will not be tolerated. We reserve the right to stop any input or remove any individual who is not abiding by that respectful conduct. We also ask that you please consider others when listening and reacting to any comments this evening. Whether you may support or oppose a particular item. We want to ensure everyone feels welcome and comfortable in participating and sharing their views.

So we're going to listen respectfully to each other and I think by doing so we'll ensure that we have a great meeting and that we have a constructive dialogue this evening. Thanks to you all for making this a space for thoughtful and constructive discussion. You may have noticed that one of the items scheduled on tonight's agenda has been removed for future consideration. As we already had a published agenda, I think it's necessary for council to make a motion to amend the agenda to remove that item. But I just want to clarify with Ms. Froud the appropriate wording in order to do that.

The appropriate wording and thank you, Mr. Mayor, would be that the agenda be amended by removing 2315-2319-2323-2327, 2331 and 2335 Edgelos St. And 3876, a Finergy road. This is a rezoning and development permit from tonight's agenda and it will be rescheduled once additional information is available.

Thank you. So I'll take a motion. I think Councillor Phelps Bondoraff intends to do that. I think we can probably take it as verbatim from Ms. Froud. She's just said it. So we'll take Councillor Phelps Bondoroff as the mover and Councillor Westhaver as the seconder. I don't think it's necessary to debate the motion. This is just to amend the agenda to remove that item to be considered at a later date. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That's carried. Once again, I won't list all the addresses, but it's at Edgelow and Finnerty. If you were here to speak to that item this evening, it will not be considered by council tonight, but instead will be scheduled for a council meeting at a later date.

So if that was the only item you wish to see or speak to, you're welcome to take the night off. But of course you're welcome to stay here with us. If you'd like to see the other discussion with that, I'm going to turn it over to miss Froud who's going to take us to the next item, which unique for a council meeting is going to be a delegation.

Yes, the first item is a delegation from Saanich Neighborhood Place. And the purpose is to present how the Neighborhood Place diverse programs and services are evolving to meet the needs of Saanich residents. Based on community feedback. We'll invite the representatives for. They're going to have 10 minutes to address council and if you could begin with your name.

We are very pleased to welcome you here this evening. Thank you so much for joining us. I know you had hoped to be here a little bit sooner than tonight, but thank you for accommodating a change of schedule and for being here instead.

So good evening, mayor and council. My name is.

Well, I'll get you to just.

Nope.

They did it for you. Go right ahead. Sorry to interrupt.

Sorry.

Should I Go ahead? If you could start from the top this time. A little sunnier. No, I'm only kidding. Go right ahead.

So.

Good evening, Mayer and Council. My name is Dothan Amit and I'm here tonight as chair of S&P's board of directors. Representing my fellow board members, I'm here with our executive director, Jacqueline Green. Many of you already know her well, but for those who don't, you're about to have the pleasure of hearing from one of our community's most highly competent and committed leaders. Leaders who steers S and P every single day. I don't want to take away a second more than I have to from her presentation, so I will hand things right over, right to her. But I'll be here to answer any questions that you might have from the board's perspective after Jacqueline's presentation.

Welcome.

And I second the sentiment.

Thank you. No pressure. My name is Jacqueline Green. I am the executive director at Saanich Neighbourhood Place. It's the joy of my life to be there. I've been there for 10 years and sandwich Neighborhood Place is exceptionally unique and I. I just love talking about it. So I'm just going to get right into it. I have some slides here. Let's see if I can make it work. Let's see. Sorry, everyone.

Whoops.

We whipped right through the whole thing. Let's try again right there. And sorry. Thank you. Not my computer. There should be a button up at the top from current slide that'll make it into full view.

Perfect. Perfect.

Thank you. So I also want to begin with a brief territory acknowledgement. We are a family serving agency and that means that we have particular responsibility to acknowledge acts of colonization and how they have impacted the indigenous community and indeed everyone in our community. Many inequities exist for First Nations, Inuit and Metis peoples in multiple forms. And despite the acts of colonization, indigenous people continue to have vibrant communities and cultures. And we are very grateful to work alongside them. And it is very important to us to work in a good way. So we hope that Saanich Neighbourhood Place acts as a gathering space where everyone can feel safe, welcomed and engaged for all peoples, including Indigenous peoples.

I want to start by talking about what a neighbourhood house is. Some of you may know some of the larger neighborhood houses in the Greater Victoria region. Burnside Gorge, Quadra Village, Fernwood. We are also a neighborhood house. The difference for us is that as a neighbourhood house, our neighbourhood is the municipality of Saanich There are eight neighbourhood houses in Victoria proper, but there's only one in Saanich. And it's our responsibility to serve the whole community. Neighbourhood houses are family centred, generally speaking. They offer a range of programs and services. We like to say from cradle to retirement. We have prenatal programs all the way up to programs for older adults.

We really want to make our community a community and so we are community driven. We support healthy communities, we provide welcoming spaces, connections, and most importantly, we're nimble enough to respond to needs that emerge in the community. And actually we like to say it's one of our specialties at Saanish Neighbourhood Place. If someone comes to us and says, hey, this is a real need, we want to be able to just turn and address that need because as a neighborhood house we think that's our responsibility. We are also connection focused. Sense of belonging is the number one thing that people are seeking these days. I don't have to tell you that, I'm sure you already know. And neighborhood places are a place where they build connections that are enduring.

I think there are four staff currently working for us who began their careers as participants in our programs over 20 years ago. If you come into our office, you'll see Kumi as our administrator and she brought her newborn baby to one of our groups 20 years ago. And that's the kind of community we want to be and we want that kind of community for everyone. Our goal always, always, always is to enrich lives through caring programs that connect people to each other and their communities. We want to be accessible, inclusive, diverse, respectful, compassionate, resilient and most importantly, strength based. We love the people in our community, we love working with them, we, we enjoy being with them and we want the best for them and we want to work alongside them to figure out what the needs are and then to begin to address them.

So we work across a lifespan. And many of you will know that we have a childcare center that's located behind Perks Recreation Centre. And lots of people think that's the only thing we do, but it's only half of what we do. We have licensed childcare. We currently have 49 spaces and we will open 16 new spaces in the fall for three to five year olds and with our within our existing space. And we also have a family service program which is actually the original reason why we began to exist. We offer food equity programming, youth programs, family and caregiver programs, family outreach and support. So I said before, pre and postnatal programs, drop in programs, playgroups parent education and individualized support.

When people are in trouble, when people are experiencing a crisis in our community, they come to us and we help them navigate and find the services that they need to address whatever it is they're facing. It's 100% driven by what their needs are, not by what we think they need, but by what they tell us they need. And I think that's very unique often in the service provision. Community governments, sorry, like to tell us what we need, but we like to listen to what people need and help them find those things. And if we can't find them, we create them. We have a pretty big impact.

20,449 people visit or we had 20,440 9,000 visits to our three locations last year. That's a lot of people. Through our doors, over 200 individual families received support from us. And almost 5,000 meals were distributed out of our very tiny kitchen in Perks Recreation Center. If you've ever been down there, you'll know it has two not commercial stoves and one commercial fridge that doesn't work very well. And a red seal chef to at the head of everything, making sure that the food that goes out of our kitchen is safe, healthy and nutritious and accessible to anyone. We have 457 individual drop in programs that were offered last year, 56 parenting sessions, and new to us, at least part of the program is new to us, 59 social cooking programs, including 15 social cooking programs for seniors that is part of the Saanich led Reach program through funding that we received through New Horizons.

And that's a partnership we began last year with Saanich, one of many we have with them. And it's been such a delight to have those folks join us in our kitchens. They come, they make food together, they eat together, they connect and then they take food home. And for many of those people, it's a balance of whether they need food equity programming or whether they need social connection or sometimes they need both. Sometimes they just wander down the hallway at the right time and we invite them in because that's what a neighborhood house does. We invite people in. We also offer very special programs in partnership with the Victoria Regional Correctional Centre and New Roads Recovery Centre. And those are specialized parenting programs.

We got a call a few years ago asking us if we would help some of the dads in the jail learn how to be good parents so that when they left jail and joined our community, they would be able to have access to their children, they would be able to be better Humans, frankly, because we know when dads receive parenting education, they do better when they're released from jail.

And as a result of that program, three of those dads left jail, went to the New Roads Recovery center and asked for the program to be offered there. So now we offer the program in the men's and the women's programs at New Roads. And we're very proud of that, that ability to be nimble. Like somebody can call us and say, hey, we need this. And we can say, yeah, I think we can do that. That sounds really fun. And I can say as the person who went into the jail at first, it's probably some of the best work that I've ever done in my whole career.

I want to talk about our relationship with the district of Saanich. First of all, we're co located inside of Kirk's Recreation Centre. If you've never found us, it's because when you entered Perks, you did not turn left down the hallway. And so when you go in the doors of Perks, turn left and go down the hallway and you'll find our center. And we offer most of our family services programs out of there. We also have a location inside of Broadview United Church, which you will know because Saanich partners with them through the overnight shelter program. And they, when they renovated their beautiful space, they built us an office downstairs.

And so three days a week we offer drop in programming there. Why do we offer drop in programming there? Because people deserve to have programs in their neighborhood. Not everybody can travel all the way over to Gorge Tilikum from, you know, as far as Cabro Bay. We, we serve families in Cabro Bay and it's a very large area and so it's kind of our like leap into what I like to lovingly call deep sea Sanich.

I'll let you finish that thought. I'll let you finish that thought.

Thank you. And I just want to say that we collaborate with Saanich on many, many, many different kinds of programs. You can see them up there and the information is in there. And most of all, I want to say thank you because Saanich supports us with an operational grant. This year's amount is $35,000. And we are about to become an other service provider and we're very excited about that. The last thing I want to do is pop this slide up there and invite you to our AGM on September 20th. First, thank you. You're welcome.

I know there'll be lots of questions from council. I just wanted to take a Moment just to thank you very much both for your leadership and for your incredible. The incredible work that you and the team do to serve this community. We know that the need far outpaces your available capacity, but you do so much with. With the resources and the volunteers and staff that you have, and we are truly grateful. We wish we could have you three or four times over to cover this municipality, and maybe someday we can work together to make that happen.

That's the goal.

I see a light first from councillor Brownhoff, and I'll turn to you for any questions or comments you may have.

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. I want to thank you as well. Not only is your organization and others within saanhat you help to make Sanich a better place for all. And I think that's so important. I just wanted to ask you about your cooking connections for seniors, and it's through our reach program I'm curious about. I've seen and been involved with cooking programs with seniors before. Do you give out? I know through some grocery stores, there's vegetables and things left over. Is that also part of the program?

It is, actually. That program is available to eat anyone. We have community fridges inside all of our locations. So if you go down the hallway in perks, there's fruits, vegetables, bread, canned goods, things that are available for anyone in the community to help themselves to. It's universal access because we just don't know who needs help, especially these days. And so that is available in all of our locations, and we try to keep it as stocked as we can, but of course, it's dependent on donations. You.

Yeah, that's great. I think that's a really important one. Having witnessed this program at another location, I can tell you the one thing that I saw was what the seniors told me. It wasn't just about, you know, going out and buying the food and cooking the food. It was about the socialization. It was about connecting with people. A lot of these seniors had lost their spouses, and so this is a really, really important program, and I'm so pleased that you're providing it. So thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Next to speak is councillor westhaver.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. All my comments and questions are through you. Thank you for being here. I was so fortunate to be one of those moms with all four of my babies in your programs. I'm very grateful and do what I can now to give back. So thank you. You instill that behavior in everyone that comes into your facility, so you reach far beyond just what you do every day. It goes back however many years you've been there and so forth. I'm setting you up a little bit for this next question because I know the Giving Machine came to Saanich last year, and it had a tremendous impact, and I hear it's coming back.

Can you speak to what impact the Giving machine had and maybe just a great chance to talk about it and how we impacted so many?

It was a very powerful impact for us. We were actually the beneficiaries of one of the largest amounts. Luckily, it was in our neighborhood in Tilcombe Mall, which is, you know, our hood. And we love it. And we. It has allowed us to provide some postpartum packs for. For our prenatal program, some programming. Some of the jail programming is funded through that. Meals for the kids in our child care center because we provide lunch and snacks for all of the kids in our program because we, again, we just don't know who has the resources to be packing a lunch for their little humans. So we want to make sure it's available to absolutely everybody without stigma. And I think that's the important piece. We are fortunate enough, I can say this now, to be part of the Giving Machine again this year.

And so we're very delighted to be a part of that. And it was a very lovely opportunity for us to connect with a faith community that we had not connected with before. And our philosophy is we'll partner with just about anybody if you have a good heart, an open mind, and we love it if you have great communication skills. But we can work with it. We want to work with you because that's what we do. We are your neighborhood center. We are the people in your neighborhood, and we want to meet the people in our neighborhood, and we want to work together to make Saanich a better place.

And so it was a lovely opportunity for us to be part of that. And, you know, I can't say enough good things about the lovely volunteers and people who just all work together just to make this community better. So we were really lucky because it was so close to us.

Thank you so much, Jacqueline.

My pleasure. Yeah.

Thank you. Next to speak is Councillor Phelps Bondaroff.

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. And I'll echo my colleagues. Thanks for your presentation, also for the amazing work you do in the community. A couple of questions I had, actually. I had a great time attending your barbecue earlier this year, and there was just a sea of people, and 20,450 visits is a lot of people. Could you tell us a bit more about sort of where those folks are coming from, where their backgrounds are. You mentioned a little bit this in your presentation, but maybe a deeper dive into the kind of community that you're serving.

Of course, we are a universal service organization, so anybody can come to us from anywhere. But the bulk of our people come from Saanich. And many of the people are experiencing challenges of one kind or another. Some are experiencing poverty. Some are experiencing food equity challenges. Some, in fact, many are experiencing mental health challenges. There has been. I don't have to. I'm sure I don't have to tell you this. There's been such an increase in the needs of people over the last, you know, five years. Covid did something to people's mental health, and it impacted them in ways that they weren't anticipating. We have many, many, many little humans who had no social contact during that time or didn't learn to interact with people outside their own very small circle. And neither did their parents.

So we have a lot of mental health programs for parents. Robin Kiernan, who's right there, is our family services manager, and she offers an incredible program called Empowering Moms. And that program invites mothers of children of all ages to come and explore what it is to be a mom and to really work on some of those mental health challenges. So really, it's anyone and everyone. We also have, you know, some specialty programs that mean we have a young. A program for young parents. And those young parents come from anywhere in the CRD where we have many people who come from the West Shore because there is no neighborhood house there and they are working hard to get one going.

But for now, we're on the way in. And because we have a childcare center, surprisingly, I think about 70% of our childcare families cycle to the center. So that tells me that they live in our neighborhood, because, I mean, they might cycle a long ways by themselves, but they're not dragging their kids on their bike forever. So many, many, many of our people come from the neighborhood, but we do outreach, so that means we go where people have needs. So I can tell you from personal experience, because I used to do outreach many years ago when I first started that, I visited many secondary suites in Gordon Head and Cadboro Bay and, you know, kind of all over Saanich.

And where we think people might be experiencing challenges is not always where they're experiencing challenges. And often I will hear people say, oh, you don't.

You.

We don't need your services in Cadboro Bay. We don't need your services in Gordon Head. We don't need your services in Broadmead. And I am here to tell you that all of our services are needed by all the people everywhere because we don't know what's happening behind closed doors. And sometimes when you open those doors, you find things that are pretty hard to see. And our staff are incredible and work very hard to. To help families address those things. And, you know, Mayor Murdoch said, you know, we have an incredible team.

We do.

We have almost 50 staff that we employ, and they're incredible. They are just the best people. And I cannot say enough about the work that they do. So people come from everywhere, and we're delighted that they do.

Excellent. Another question, if I may, through the mayor, and thank you so much for the detailed response. It's excellent. We live in challenging times, and the work that you've been describing seems incredibly vital to me, and I think, hopefully all my colleagues. Challenging times, the kind of services that you provide are really beneficial. Are there any challenges that your organization is currently facing at this time?

Well, I think all nonprofits currently are experiencing the challenge that most of us are experiencing. Too many problems and not enough resources. That's always going to be a problem. Operational costs are always challenging. And the need is dramatically increased. I cannot say how much more need there is now than there was even five years ago. And we are seeing people come through our doors with really challenging situations in their families and in their lives. And they're not people that we've typically seen before. And it's. Yeah, I think the biggest challenge is, you know, and governments are not, you know, every level of government is experiencing fiscal challenges. We know that. And so, you know, there's always that challenge of people.

There's increased need but decreased funding. And those things actually don't work because when there's increased need, we actually need increased funding. And that's not this necessarily this room, but it is, you know, government, the provincial government, certainly, and the federal government. We're lucky that we have New Horizons money. Another grant we received from the federal government has not seen an increase in over 20 years. So the amount of work we can do with that money shrinks and shrinks and shrinks and shrinks because we just can't pay our staff, and we lose staff because they can't afford to live here. But the thing I'm worried the most about, if I can pop this in here, is that we. I am so excited about the new housing initiatives here.

I cannot tell you about how excited I am about the new housing Initiatives. And I'm also a little bit terrified of the amount of work that is going to come with all of those housing initiatives. People need more than a box to live in. They need a community to thrive. They need services to access. They need people who can help them. They need a place to go with their kids.

They.

They need social connection. They need food, they need service navigation. And the more people we have, the more need there is for those services. And so we're not alone in that. As I was coming here, I heard on the CBC them talking about the same problem on the West Shore there is. You know, as we build communities, we need to remember that communities are not just about the boxes people live in. It's wonderful to have them. Do not get me wrong, I've been complaining about the lack of it for years. But alongside those needs to come the things that people need to thrive. Because people in this community deserve more than to survive.

And I know, you know that they deserve to thrive and we all are better for it. When we all thrive, everybody does better. And there's just no way around that. And so that's why I'm so passionate about this, because there's so much, so much opportunity as we enter this. And I'm looking forward. I have a meeting with. I don't know if they're looking forward to it, but I have a meeting with Planning on Thursday because I raised this concern when we were talking about the Tilikum Gorge community and how two new beautiful big towers are planned for the parking lot of Tilikum Mall. And I just went, oh, dear God, help me. Because they're all coming to us and they're coming to Perks Recreation Centre too. And we don't have the resources to serve the people we see now. So it's a challenge.

That is the biggest challenge, is there's so much more need and so much fewer resources. Yeah, sorry. You're always going to get a long answer from me. There is no short answer. Ask anyone in this room who knows me.

You should see my publications. They're all over 100 pages these days. One of the quick question. Two quick questions, actually. I'll ask them at the same time. Did you just say that 77 0% of your clients come by bike are childcare families?

Yeah, 7 0.

Good to know.

It's like bike central there. It's crazy.

Fantastic. And then finally, I guess you've talked a bit about sort of the future and the horizons, the challenges we face. Maybe you could elaborate on a couple of things that you're looking to achieve in the next five years?

Well, one of them we've achieved, we're expanding our childcare by 16 spaces. And that's as far as we can go because we don't have any more space that we can convert into childcare spaces. One of the things that I would like to see, and you alluded to it earlier, Mayor Murdoch, is I would love to see Saanich neighbourhood place in more than one area of Saanich. This is a massive municipality. It has a large population, a large population of families and seniors. And when you think about Victoria having eight neighborhood houses and Saanich having one neighborhood house, you can see how that might be a bit challenging to try to meet the needs because it's just so massive.

And yet, you know, my staff dutifully, you know, get in the car and drive to Tim Hortons Way on the other side of Saanich so that they can serve people there because people deserve to have service in their community. And not everybody can easily get the bus, has a car, can cycle with kids, can do all the things and so that we want them to be able to access this same amazing stuff that we've got going on in Gorge Tilicum in their own neighbourhood. So that is my number one goal. I would be so happy if we could have additional service centers across Saanich, but, you know, that's an expensive dream.

Thank you so much for your presentation and for all the good you do in our community. And I'll let my colleagues at speak more questions and thank you for your patience, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you. Councillor Chambers is next.

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, and thank you very much for your presentation. I'm always absolutely impressed and loving to hear them. It seems like the Saanich neighborhood place has become everyone's living room and it looks like we're going to need to facilitate more of those around the district to meet the growing need and to find some financing as well. Is that sort of.

I'm not allowed to ask for that.

So.

Okay, I will just say thank you.

Thank you very much. Well, at this moment I am allowed to ask for that. And maybe at another moment I will still hope for that. I just wanted to say how incredibly important those services were for me as a young mom. And I have a very good friend who has worked in the childcare at the neighborhood place for a long time. And I was very impressed when I had been at the Parks arena visiting her and some children came in and they really wanted to get home and they didn't have any money for the bus. And I remember you pulled out, or someone did, they pulled out a roll. And I mean like a roll of free passes. And do you think.

I know there's several colleagues and people in the region who really want to see, you know, that more solidified and free transit for. Yes. Is that. That would really help because then you can be a living room to more people.

Right?

Absolutely. And transportation is a huge issue, especially in the municipality as large as. And we often have parents calling us, asking us to help pay for bus passes so their kids can get to school. Because in Victoria that's of course, I'm sorry to compare us to Victoria, but we live next door. So, you know, the kids who live in Victoria can get a pass, but their kids cannot. And it's a barrier to kids getting to school. And so, you know, when we can do it, we do it. But we also have like, you know, limited ability to buy a bus pass for every kiddo that needs it, but every kid needs one. And so if we can support that in some way, that's critical.

Excellent. I will continue to advocate for that. My. I will. In. In lieu of time, I'll just, just. I'll just quickly say one more question. How is the contributions from local businesses and do you have much interaction with the business community in Saanich?

We have some. I will tell you that I might be good at a lot of things, but I'm not so good at that. And people don't know a lot about us. They know about Burnside Gorge and they know about Quadra Village and they know about Fernwood, but they don't necessarily know about us because we just quietly do our thing. I took this position two years ago and I've decided we're not going to be very quite quiet anymore because I think it's really important to talk about the good work we do and the good work that still needed to be done. And so, yeah, if you have a contact, I'm always happy to hear and if you would love to come and visit us, I'd always be happy to tour you around and let you have a chance to smell the good cooking and maybe find a cookie or two.

And, you know, again, we're open to partnership with just about anybody. I can't imagine there's many people we would say no to.

Well, that sounds wonderful. See, because for cookie and chambers. So that sounds really great. I think that if you were to, with your effervescent personality, were to do something towards local business and saanich I think you would have major, major buy in. And yeah, I think that we have a really beautiful community here and we can only get better. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks so much. I think everyone who wished to say something or ask a question has had the opportunity to do so. So I'll just again say thank you so much for the time this evening and for the amazing work that you and the team do.

Thank you so much for this opportunity. We really appreciate it.

We look forward to seeing you again. Yes, take care. And with that I will turn it to Ms. Froud who is going to take us into the public input portion of this evening's agenda.

Yes, the next item is public input and this is going to be for business items F, G and H. And just for clarity, Those items are 3995 Quadra Street a non medical cannabis retail store, a 2026 general local government elections, 4104 Shelburne street excess service fee bylaw amendment and finally the notice of motion Universal Declaration, Declaration of the Right of the Tree. So for those wishing to address council via Ms. Teams, the meeting link is located at Saanich CA Agendas. This information is also displayed on the screen for convenience. For those participating through the Ms. Teams link, please leave your video display off and microphone muted except when addressing Council. If you wish to speak, you must use the raise your hand function to join the speaking queue.

Speakers will have up to three minutes each to address council and if you please start with your name and if you're comfortable please provide your address. You're in your neighborhood or even if you're a resident of Saanich. That is always helpful. We're going to be starting with those who pre registered to speak so the first individual Dale west if you are in chambers if you'd like to come forward and address council.

Good evening.

Welcome.

Thank you. Find my glasses here. They're near glasses so if I put them on you guys are all just

going to get really blurry.

So excuse me if I'm peering at you as if you're not there. Dale west, property owner 51576 Craigie Wood Court Home to me and my wife for 18 years now situated diagonally behind 4104 Shelburne.

I'm here tonight because I'm saddened by indifference how this and other development proposals fail longtime Saanish residents. No empathy for loss of green space, peace of mind, privacy, quiet sense of

security, sunlight or views.

No concern for the dust, noise or turmoil of construction. Instead, proponents take bows for Adding to the housing stock building for future residents who may or may not come. No promise. 4104 Shelburne townhouses will be more attractive to buyers than the 90 listed on the MLS for sale in Saanich. Now, before I go on, I must thank the council that approved the three projects at University Heights.

Such great practice for living with construction flaggers. Trucks, cranes, swing loads overhead, bulldozed buildings like the library. Distance to the temporary replacement is only double and not every sidewalk is closed or ripped up. So thank you for that.

But that's not all. To sad indifference, the process adds contempt. Search 4104 Shelburne on the permit and development tracker and get no results received prior to July 2022. Find it on the active development applications webpage under Gordon Head.

No history of the proposal. What's happened? What's gone on in the past? Case study on hold, no notice. The project is on council's approval agenda. Nothing. Nothing to say that that agenda hosted last Wednesday a mere five days ago. Developers do not reach out to property owners. At least they haven't to me. Not this one for this particular project. Not a second right behind my house. 4090 Feltham. In the spirit of community, my neighbor comes to me and says can I trim a small bush? The second developer won't discuss the blasting the rock that my house sits on. Ask the planning department for details of proposal and directed back to the developer and the developer shuffles you off back to planning. End of story.

Now, the Shelburne Valley plan aims to replace the 18 single family town homes in our Craigie Wood Court strata with higher density urban townhouses. Sight unseen, unaware failing to regard the neighbors. Band together to seal spring road cracks, rake fall leaves or shovel winter snow to keep the footpath to Felsom safe for anyone to use. Ignored. How can that plan approved by this council. People so blind to what builds community, not village badges. Citizens with common purpose. After living that.

We'll have to get you to wrap up there as the three minutes right now.

After living in Saanich for 18 years, I feel less a cornerstone of community and more a stepping stone for developers. Everyone needs a question.

Okay, I'm going to stop you there. Thank you. I appreciate your comments, but as you know, everyone has three minutes. We've gone well over the three minutes at this point. We appreciate the benefit of your comments, but there are many other folks who wish to address council. Thank you for being here. Thank you.

The next registered speaker is Sean Steele. If you'd like to Come forward and provide your name and if you're comfortable, your address or neighborhood.

Good evening.

Good evening, Council. My name is Sean Steele of Eva Avenue. I'm also the president of the Gordon Head Community Association. In our Referral comment for 4104 Shelbourn, one of the comments was to consult with the local area neighbors. I had a meeting with some of them last Thursday and I think what you've heard and what you might hear more of is a bit of lack of consultation with the surrounding community on that particular application. What I wanted to bring forward regarding this application is the community amenity contributions. We're seeing very little in the way of community amenity contributions due to the rental tenures that happen with the apartment buildings that are coming up in Gordon Head.

And this particular application was done before the CAC policy was introduced, which means that there could be some flexibility in perhaps considering the distribution of the CAC for this application to follow the current CAC policy, which would be 50% local amenity fund, 30% affordable housing fund and 20% towards park acquisition.

So I just like to respectfully request that that be considered. Thank you.

Thank you.

The other registered speakers were for Edgelow and Finnerty. So we're just going to open up. If there's anybody within chambers who wishes to to address council, please come forward at this time and you'll have three minutes to address Council. If there's anybody on teams, just use your raise your hand feature.

Okay. Anyone in the chamber or online who wishes to address Council on the Items listed under FG&H, this will be your opportunity to do so. Please just come forward and if you're online, please raise your virtual hand and we'll call on you when the time presents. Good evening.

Sasha Izard, Senate Resident, Item H1, Universal Declaration of the Rights of the treat. Yes, I think Senate should adopt the declaration which would repudiate this Council's own abysmal record this term in regard to allowing a vast sea of mature trees to be taken down to facilitate laissez faire development. The only way to truly protect trees in Saanich is to replace this council and to boot out the provincial government. Thank you.

Is there anyone else who wishes to address Council on the items on the agenda listed under fgh, please come forward or raise your virtual hand. I see Mr. Smith online. If you wish to address council, you'll have the opportunity to do so. Please go ahead. I'll just. I actually just called on Mr. Smith on teams to speak, so I'll just give you an opportunity once he has spoken. No problem. Mr. Smith, if you'd like to address counsel, this will be your opportunity to do so. If you could just unmute yourself,

Maybe

we'll give him just another second to do that. Mr. Smith, are you able to unmute yourself?

Okay.

If not, I can certainly come back to you when you've resolved the technical issues. In which case I'd invite you to come back to the microphone and we welcome the benefit of your input.

I'm Suzanne Griffin, I live on North Quadra Street. I want to thank Natalie Chambers for her motion for the universal declaration of the rights of the tree. For the last three years I have been trying to get a conservation covenant put on my mother in law's property next door to where I live. She is one of the original Rogers family that settled in Saanich in the late 1800s. A number of years ago my husband counted the oak trees on my property and his mother's property and I live next door to her property. He counted over a hundred oak trees and there has been an offer by a developer to purchase my mother in law's property. And he also made an offer to me which I refused because the offer was ridiculous.

He said that I could stay on the property for 20 years but the offer price would be the same today. 20 years as it is today, that's not good business. But I've been fighting to protect my mother in law's property at 4130 Quadra street because of the Garry Oak meadow and the prolific native wildflowers. In the springtime when those wildflowers are blooming, it's even more beautiful than Beacon Hill park for the size of the property. And this property and my property were basically at the base of Christmas Hill which belongs to Saanich now. And that was originally the north side, was originally owned by the Rogers family.

Hoping that this offer to purchase does not go through and that Saanich council will reject building on this property to destroy this Garry Oak Meadow. I had a tree come down just before Christmas last year and my next door neighbor picked up one of the cuts of the tree and he counted over 166 rings. So these are heritage trees. They should not be destroyed. Thank you so much for listening to me.

Thank you. Okay, Mr. Smith, it looks like maybe you've been able to unmute yourself. So I'll go back to you now with the opportunity to present to council.

Yeah, thanks very much. Technical issues resolved. I wanted to speak to something on the consent agenda. I don't know if you take submissions on that.

We do. Please go ahead.

Okay, I'd just like to speak to the request for a resolution to support a non medical cannabis retail store for Quadra Center Canna plus retailers. I'm a consultant representing the applicant Canna plus who are an affiliate of Liquor plus and I have experience as a cannabis regulator and played a key role in the development of the provincial regulatory framework. I'm seeking your support in the application and some key points. In summary of my written submission I would just like to make the rezoning bylaw to permit cannabis retail at the Quadra center passed by a vote of 8 to 1 in September of 2024. The Canna plus store at Royal Oak Shopping Mall was unanimously supported by Council in October of 2025.

Quadra center is one of several locations in Saanich where locating these stores is entirely consistent with the Sanich OCP and the mall is now zoned appropriately. It's an ideal spot for retail cannabis in a prominent commercial center and provides ease of access and one stop shopping for adults to access this legal product using a variety of transportation modes. The sale of regulated cannabis is safe and does not pose a public safety risk. Illegal cannabis sales however, still pose a public safety risk and sufficient access to legal bricks and mortar cannabis stores mitigates public risk by reducing illegal market share. The provincial licensing process is rigorous and applicants like Canada plus have been thoroughly vetted by the province. Canada plus is an affiliate of Liquor plus which has operated in the community for over 20 years.

Longtime Saanich landlord has run investments, supports the store and requested it be operated by this applicant. Again, this will be a retail store selling only packaged cannabis, so cannabis is neither consumed in or adjacent to the store and in the fall of 2024 Council supported locating a cannabis store at University Heights Centre. In the fall of 2025, council approved the Canopus store at Royal Oak and during these deliberations Proximity schools was thoroughly discussed and precedent established regarding measuring distance from school schools as reflected in the staff report. I just wanted to say as discussed then, it's worth reiterating that minors do not get into these stores and fines for licensees are $7,000 for serving a minor and Health Canada Canada has strict regulations regarding signage and advertising.

Thanks.

Thank you. Appreciate your input. If there's anyone else who wishes to address Council on the items listed under F, G and H, this will be your opportunity opportunity to do so. Please come forward or raise your virtual hand if you are online. Come on down. Good evening.

Good Evening here in council. Suzanne Clary, Cordova Bay. I just would like to support Natalie Chambers motion. We were part of saving Mother Maple last summer and we know who helped us and who didn't. I think that's important to remember because that is an iconic tree on Wesley Road and without our support that tree would have come down within 10 days. We were given 10 days. So I think all trees need to be recognized and to be supported because without like individual trees with a group of neighbors who go crazy, literally go berserk and come together, what about the trees who don't have that support, who are somehow they are minimized, they're just sort of offside, they don't have that, that level of community.

They could still be incredibly valuable trees. So I think the, the, the rights of trees as living beings really needs to be considered and please support that role. Thank you.

Thank you. If there's anyone else in the chamber or online who'd like to address council on the items for public input, please. Good evening.

Good evening your worship members of council. My name is Alan Lowe of Alan Lowe, architect. I'm here to speak on Shelburne street today. My client has been working on this project for about 10 years and I've been working on it for the past six. First submitted to Saanich planning department five years ago and we're finally here with a positive recommendation from staff. We've been going back and forth dealing with right of ways grades, fire truck turning templates, retaining walls, storm drain management, landscaping, et cetera. And the project meets the OCPs. They meet your local area Shelburne Valley plans, DP guidelines, and I believe your new OCP even allows for even larger buildings. Okay, we're presenting to you something that can be summed in, summed in two words, missing middle.

We are proposing eight townhouse units with their own garages and patios. Each are three bedrooms except for one which is two bedrooms and a den. Every council in this region is asking for three bedroom family housing and that's what we're proposing tonight. I also need to address some of the letters and comments from neighbors. We have had meetings with a couple of the neighbors previously. The previous design had six townhouses with variants to the rear setback and looking right into the condom the strata houses behind. We had met with them. They wanted less density, but we couldn't have less density. Our client needed the townhouse units and it has gone to the Gordon Head Community Association, I think probably four times.

We don't take neighbors concerns lightly and we do what we can to alleviate some of the concerns. First it was the trees and overlooked the previous design like I said, had six units facing west with balconies overlooking with a variance to the rear setback. We revised the site planning and design so that we oriented the units so that only two of the end units face the neighbors. There are no habitable room windows facing our neighbors and the only small windows are in stairwells to provide natural light. The large trees will remain, the existing fence will remain. The configuration of the two blocks now open up a vista for the neighbors so that they can see between our buildings. And we are requesting no variances next to their property line.

We feel that the redesign of our project will not have a negative effect on our neighborhood and our density is only 0. 47 to 1 on this site and only 3 stories. So we trust that you will support this project as planned.

Thank you. If there's anyone else who wishes to address council, please come forward.

Hi, Nancy de Castry, Saanich. I just want you to quickly say I support Natalie's motion for the protection of the trees. As Ms. Griffin had mentioned, we have an offer on the property behind our house, a conditional offer. And when we were walked through the project, he told us that he only had to remove 150 old growth Garry Oak trees. So this was just kind of said off the cuff, those can never be replaced. If you look at the ones over by the Bird of Paradise, those are 30 years old, those replacement trees, and they're nowhere near the way these old growth karaokes are. So I am in support of the motion.

Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else who'd like to address council on the items for public input this evening, please come forward or raise your virtual hand if you're online. And as there's always a reluctant person. Oh, tonight it's Ms. Burton who was the reluctant person. I'll turn it over to you for your comments.

So much reluctant. Just didn't want to take the spot from somebody else. Thank you. Yes, Kathleen Burton, resident of Saanich and I too am in support of Ms. Chambers motion, but wanted to say that if for some reason it doesn't pass this evening, I would highly encourage Saanich and council to prioritize the protection of these big trees in some other way. Mature trees and the tree canopy that they offer to Saanich are incredibly valuable, very important to our community, but also just they're so important to our world in general and climate change. And then the other piece that I'd like to add to it again if it isn't passed, I hope that it would go forward but if it doesn't that education be something for the community that is expanded upon for through whether it's through community associations or through different programs that Saanich itself offers.

You have your program that you're doing now with your naturescaping and I think that's just brilliant and I would encourage Sanich to encourage more programs like that and teach people the value of these beautiful majestic trees. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay, one more time. If you'd like to address council and haven't had the opportunity to do so, please come forward or raise your virtual hand. I see a hand online from Mr. Nagiri. I'll turn it over to you. You'll have if you can introduce yourself, you'll have three minutes to address council.

Mehdi Najeri 1005 Leeds Place with increased production of greenhouse gases emission by more fossil fuel production under the guise of project of national interest we will have more heat dome and more people die as a result.

Trees are vital to reduce urban temperature. Heat island effect in 2021 more than 620 people died, mostly in big urban areas in BC. We need not only enshrine the universal declaration of the right of trees and its consideration in all aspects of planning and policy framework, but also adopt policies that ensure all plans such as OCP, Quadrant MacKenzie Plan, Shelbourne Valley Plan, Telecom development plan and all future plans will be accompanied by an environmental assessment report of.

This plan and its effect on urban ecology, environment and quality of life. Why don't we have an environmental assessment report with all these plan if you really care about environment and urban ecology that all the time people talk about it but never practice. It's just greenwashing and ridiculous nonsense that we hear from this council in last three and a half years. We should not just play lip service to environmental protection but practice it in our daily action planning and policies.

We should consider environmental effect of all our decisions regarding development and not just developers interests and their profit maximization. Because that's all we have done in OCP and every other aspect of planning in last three years.

Only what the developers want. The hell with people and their life, their quality of life and their neighborhood. We should consider the effect of OCP and development decision on public health, endangered species and urban ecological integrity and the right of first nation cultural and environmental values and not just play lip service to acknowledge that we live in their territories but not consulting them and refuse to acknowledge their views and concern in planning such as the case was with the Quadra McKenzie plan.

Stop this ridiculous claiming that you are consider environmental issues. You don't. We need really put new bylaws and rules that all planning will come with environmental assessment report.

Thank you, Mr. Nagiri. That concludes the three minutes. Appreciate your comments. Is there anyone else who wishes to address council on the items for public input this evening? As I'm not seeing anyone in the room or online coming forward or raising their virtual hand, I'll turn it now to we'll consider public input closed. And I'll turn it back to Ms. Froud to introduce the next item for council, please.

The next item is the adoption of the July 6 council meeting. A minute.

Thank you. I'll look to a member of council who wishes to move adoption of the minutes. Thank you, Councillor Bryce. Seconded by Phelps Bondroff on the adoption of minutes from July 6th. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. The motion carries. Before I continue, I didn't acknowledge at the start of the meeting that Councillor Plant is joining us via teams this evening. So you don't see him in the room but he is in front of us and when he's speaking you'll see him up on the screens. I'll turn it back to Ms. Proud for the next item, please.

The next item does not require a motion from council. It is a rising report from the in camera meeting of May 25th. And this was the appointment of Christine Reinfeld as the district of Machosin representative on the Peninsula and Area Agricultural Commission. All member municipalities must approve all of the appointments to that group. Under e we have 2,900 Tilikum Road. Ratification of Development Permit Amendment DPA 1101. And this is to convert one three bedroom unit into two two bedroom units and to modify an existing covenant to reflect this change.

Okay, so in order to do that I will turn to Councillor Westhaver. If you you could read in the motion for us please.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The Development Permit Amendment DPA 01101 be approved and issued. Okay.

Seconded by Councillor Harper. I will call the question on the DP amendment. Those in favor and opposed? Seeing none opposed. The motion carries. Thank you Ms.

Proud.

Back to you.

The next series of bylaws for first reading are subject to a public hearing. The first reading is 1-805-1809 and 1811 Feltham Road. This is a rezoning development permit and official community plan bylaw amendment application. And this is to forward to a public hearing and give first reading to OCP Amendment Bylaw 10309 to allow a five story building in the neighborhood designation at that address and as well as a zoning bylaw amendment. Bylaw 10310 to rezone 1805 Feltham Road from the P2 utility zone and 1809 and 1811 Feltham Road from the RS6 single family dwelling zone to the RA11 apartment zone.

Thank you. Just before I turn to Councillor Westhaver to start this process with the first motion, I'll just remind folks who may be in the room or watching online that for this and the next two items, you're going to see council go through a series of motions without debate or discussion, as these will be moving these items forward to a public hearing where they'll be subject to public input and where there will be a debate by council.

It's our council procedure to not debate or discuss the items at the first reading stage or prior to a public hearing. Councillor Westhaver, if you could do the honors for us.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. That official community plan bylaw 2023amendment, bylaw 2026, number 10309 to permit a five story building in the neighborhood designation at 1805, 1809 and 1811 Feltham Road be given first reading.

Seconded by Phelps Bondroff on first reading. Those in favor and opposed? Chambers is opposed. Plant, are you opposed? Yes. Okay. Councillor Plant and chambers are opposed. The motion carries. Councillor Westhaver, I'll turn back to you for the next motion.

That's only bylaw 2003amendment. Bylaw 2026, number 10310 to rezone 1805, 1809 and 1811 Feltham Road from the P2 bracket utility zone and RS6 bracket single family dwelling zone to the RA11 bracket apartment zone be given first reading.

Seconded by Phelps Ponderoff. Those in favor and opposed. Councillor Plant, if you wish to speak to the motion, I'll give you the. I don't know. My apologies. As you clearly didn't hear me state at the beginning, it is council's policy practice that we don't speak to first reading. Second reading will occur at the public hearing which will be an opportunity for debate. This is the zoning bylaw amendment for first reading.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. My understanding is we do second reading at council and then it's third reading at the public hearing.

I believe second reading occurs at the public hearing. This is first reading of the zoning bylaw amendment. I'll just seek clarity from Ms. Froud if I've misunderstood.

No second reading. And third reading would follow the considerations of the public hearing. What Councillor Plant might be remembering is that there is certain bylaws, for instance the OCP bylaw, which have a slightly different referral process where council would give second reading before the public hearing. So he might be remembering that.

Isn't this requiring an OCP amendment?

This is an amendment to the OCP bylaw. But in that case it would occur at the public hearing.

Yes, those particular bylaws, it was statutory requirements. This one does not have a statutory requirement which would require council to give second reading tonight.

I'm surprised. I accept your ruling, Mr. Mayor. Apologies for delaying the meeting.

Okay. There will certainly be an opportunity for debate at the public hearing. But as these are first readings, this is just to move to public hearing where we will receive public input and have a debate on those motions. So the motion on the floor is for the zoning bylaw amendment for first reading. I'll call the question. Those in favour and opposed? Councillors, chambers and plant are opposed to first reading. Councillor Westhaver, if you could do the next one for us, please.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. That the application for 1805, 1809 and 1811 Feltham Road be forwarded to a public hearing.

And same mover and seconder. This one is on. Calling the public hearing. Those in favor and opposed. Chambers and plant are opposed on the public hearing. And the motion carries. I will Turn back to Ms. Froud to introduce the next item for us, please.

The next item is 4692 and 4718 Mountain Road. This is a subdivision rezoning in OC. The purpose is to forward the application to a public hearing and give first reading to official community Plan Amendment Bylaw 10304 to adjust the boundaries of the Parks and Rural Areas land designation, address administrative errors in maps incurred during the adoption process of the Quadrant Mackenzie and Shelburne Valley plans and give first reading to zoning bylaw amendment bylaw one zone to rezone portions of 4692 Mountain Road from the P4 recreation and open space zone to the A1 rural zone and rezone portions of 4718 Mountain Road from the A1 rural zone to the P4 recreation and open space zone to facilitate a boundary adjustment for a land exchange.

Okay. And the process for this is the same. These will both. Both be for first readings of the OCP amendment and the zoning bylaw amendment. For the first one of those, I'm going to turn to Councillor Westhaver.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The Official Community Plan Bylaw 2023Amendment Bylaw 2026, number 10304, to adjust the boundaries of the parks and rural areas land designations and address administrative errors in certain maps of the quadrant, Mackenzie and Shelburne Valley plans be given first reading.

Okay. Moved by Westhaver and seconded by Harper on first reading. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. The motion carries. Go ahead, Councillor Westhaver.

That Zoning Bylaw 2003Amendment Bylaw 2026, number 10305, to rezone portions of 4692 Mountain Road from the P4 brackets Recreation and Open Space Zone to the A1 bracket Rural Zone and rezone portions of 4718 Mountain Road from the A1 bracket Rural Zone to the P4 bracket Recreation and Open space zone to facilitate a boundary adjustment for a land exchange.

Be given first reading and same mover

and seconder on first reading of the zoning bylaw amendment. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That is carried. Councillor Westaver, back to you.

That the application for 4692 and 4718 Mountain Road and to address administrative errors in certain maps of the Quadra, McKenzie and Shelburne Valley plans be forwarded to a public hearing.

Same mover and seconder. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That's carried. Thank you, Ms. Brown, back to you.

The final public hearing item is 3308 and 3312 Tennyson Avenue. This is a rezoning and development permit and official community plan bylaw amendment application. Purpose is to forward the application to a public hearing and give first reading to official community Plan Amendment Bylaw 10306 to permit a mixed use building of up to nine stories at 3308 and 3312 Tennyson Avenue and Zoning Bylaw Amendment Bylaw 10307 to create a new C12M mixed commercial storage zone to provide flexibility for future uses while maintaining key policy Objectives and rezone 3308 Tennyson Avenue from the RD1 2 Family Dwelling Zone and 3312 Tennyson Avenue from the M1D W Douglas Street West Zone to the new C12M Zone.

Councillor Westhaver.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. That Official Community Plan Bylaw 2023Amendment Bylaw 2026, number 10306 to permit a mixed use building of up to nine stories at 3308 and 3312 Tennyson Avenue be

given first reading moved by Westhaver and seconded by Harper on first reading of the OCP amendment. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That's carried. Thank you. Councillor Westhaver, I have a question for

our Deputy Corporate officer through you, Mr. Mayor.

Go right ahead.

This is a technicality question.

Okay.

Do I need to say the brackets for the record?

No, it's okay.

I can fill those in.

My curiosity was perking so I'm going to skip that. Thank you, Ms. Froud. I appreciate it. That zoning bylaw 2003amendment bylaw 2026 number 10307 to create a new C12M mixed commercial storage zone to provide flexibility for future uses while maintaining key policy objectives. Semicolon and rezone 3308 Tennyson Avenue from the RD1 2 Family Dwelling Zone and 3312 Tennyson Avenue from the M1DW Douglas Street West Zone to the new C12M Zone be given first reading.

I like that you left out the bracket but you included the semicolon.

I liked some type of bracket. Why not?

And that was seconded by Harper. I will call the question on first reading of the zoning bylaw amendment. Those in favor? None. Opposed? None are opposed. That's carried. Thank you. Back to you Councillor Westhaver to make

sure Mr. Mayor was listening to me hanging on every word that the application for 3308 and 3312 Tennyson Avenue be forwarded to a public hearing.

Same mover and seconder on the public hearing. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That's carried. Thank you very much and thank you Councillor Westhaver for taking us through those. Ms. Browd, I'll turn it back to you to introduce the consent items for us please.

The items on the consent agenda are Unit 1053995 Quadra street request for a resolution of council for support support of a non medical cannabis retail store for Saanich Center Cannabis Retailers Ltd if this is supported this would actually be just forwarding it to a public hearing and then 202026 General Local Election Amendment to the appointments of the officials.

Okay, if I could look to Councillor Westover to make the motion on the consent items and just an important reminder from Ms. Froud that the first consent item is actually sending that item to public hearing. It is not for approval. That would occur at the public hearing, Ms. Westhaver. But Councillor Westhaver, if you would be so kind as to read in the motion for the two consent items.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The consent agenda. I'll start that again. That consent agenda items F1 and F2

be approved second amended by Harper. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That is carried. Thank you so much. I will now turn to Ms. Froud to introduce the Shelburne street item. Anyone who missed the introductory comments and didn't hear that the item that had previously been scheduled as G1 for EdgeLow and Finnerty roads has been pulled from this evening's agenda and will be scheduled for a future council meeting. So apologies if you've been waiting up to this point to hear that item. It's not going to occur tonight, but will come back to council for future consideration. I'm now going to turn to Ms.

Froud to introduce the next item on the agenda.

The next item is 4104 Shelburne Street. A rezoning and development permit application. This is a report from the director of planning and the purpose is to give three readings to zoning bylaw amendment bylaw 10296 to rezone 4104 Shelburne street from the RS6 single family dwelling to zone to the RM7 neighborhood residential mix zone to construct eight three story attached housing units in two buildings as well as to approve development permit DPR 00713.

Okay, so as is our practice, we'll get first reading on the floor in order to to get to debate. I'll call the question on first and we'll have a motion for second reading and then council will be free to ask any questions and debate the item. I've recorded a number of questions from public input that I wish to put to staff, which I will do before I move before I go to the mover and seconder for their opportunities. Councillor Harper, if you would be comfortable moving first reading of the item.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yes. That bylaw number 10296 be given first

reading and seconded by Phelps Bondoroff. I'll call the question on first reading. Those in favor and opposed? Councillor Chambers is opposed. The motion carries. I'll just get a motion for second reading so we can start the next stage of the process.

Councillor Harper, bylaw number 10296 be given second reading.

Okay, moved by Harper and seconded by Phelps Bondroff. Before I come to you, Councilor Harper, I'm just going to pose a couple of questions. Questions to staff that came up from the public input. We did hear from the applicant in regard to some of the history of the proposal. But two of the questions that emerged that I wish to ask for clarity on in respect of 4104 Shelburne is the development tracker. There was a comment made that the development tracker had not been appropriately updated and wondered if you would be able to provide us with some insight on what may have happened there and if that has been corrected.

Thank you, Mayor Murdoch. Council may recall that there was a time before the current development tracker and that was a slightly different section of the district's website and there are still some long standing applications that are on that particular portion of the website and have not been transitioned over to the development tracker.

At the time we instituted the new now I think two or three years old development tracker, it was determined that we did not have the capacity to transition all of those long standing applications on at that point. So we have clearly said on the website that there are two and that if the application predates a certain date, please refer to this older section of the website.

Okay, so that was a point in time capture and this one predated that point in time, which speaks to the age of this or at least the initial age of this application. Another comment was raised in respect of the community amenity contributions. That was coming from the representative from the community association comment about this one predating the current policy and wondered if you could comment on what's being offered and I guess how that was calculated.

Through you, Mr. Mayor. The applicant has offered a community amenity contribution of $30,720 to the Saanich Affordable Housing Fund. That is roughly consistent with what the current recommended value would be for a community amenity contribution. For under the, under the current policy. What is different is the, the allocation. So the current CAC policy, as our community association member rightly pointed out, does allocate different percentages of a CAC towards different purposes. If council would like to see that allocation made, that is something that could be, could be accomplished just by part of this, but it is something that the applicant has at this point in time offered funds towards the housing fund.

If council did wish to direct changes to the allocation of the CACs, could that be achieved without going back in the process? So I guess what I'm asking is if council gave that direction and then moved a motion to say we'll hold on final reading until all of this is resolved, are there any additional steps required in order to achieve that change.

Through you, Mr. Mayor? I don't think that there would be any additional steps, but if that is a concern, we can certainly do A little bit more digging into that.

Okay. I just wanted to clarify that in the course of discussion, if council wished to make changes, that we would be fully aware of any of the implications of doing that. Okay, Council, that resolves two of the questions that I'd recorded for that item. I imagine there will be other questions that members of council wish to raise. So to begin with, I will go to the mover, which is Councillor Harper. You have the floor for questions or comments on the application.

I'm going to go more to the commentary.

Please go right ahead.

And I first of all wanted to thank everyone who contacted us, either in real life or via letters. And I also wanted to thank staff for what's a very thorough report, which is why I don't have a lot of questions, in fact, because between what was asked previously and the report, I think it answers things quite well. I am very pleased to support this application in the Felpham Village as part of the Shelburne Valley Action Plan. And as was noted when it was spoken to previously and the mayor also alluded to, it's been five to six years in the making here. So I think that explains many of the questions that came up previously.

And I think that is important to consider as we move forward on this. But when I look at this, I recognize this is a panhandle lot. And Panhandle lots are particularly challenging in terms of their development. And so I think that what has been proposed for the Panhandle is in fact quite a creative use and good use of a very difficult space to develop. It is relatively gentle density within the village. It is townhouses, they are three stories. But under all of our plans, this could in fact be apartment buildings in four stories. So this is relatively gentle density. And most importantly, I think of all, as was alluded to, this provides family friendly units for the community. We have seven units with three bedrooms. We have one with two bedroom plus den.

And the other thing I would note as I look at the various pictures that we have, I think that this is very attractive, in fact, and grades into the neighborhood quite well. And because it's a panhandle, you don't even see it on Shelburne. And there's been care taken to make sure that there's not a lot of overlooking of the neighbors. There are outside patios, there are balconies, and as was pointed out, there are no windows that overlook the neighbors. The advisory design panel did approve it as presented. And while I would note that it's on a frequent transit ute, it does have parking. Every unit has a parking space as well as space for bicycles. So it sort of is the best of all worlds.

You can bus, you can bike, or you can can use your car depending on where you're going. In terms of the landscaping, there's a very fulsome landscaping plan and 40 of the trees are being retained on the property, which is quite a remarkable feat. And as was also pointed out, this is totally consistent with both the official community plan and with the Shelburne Valley action plan. So this project provides an important typology of housing townhouses which is badly needed in our community. And given that they are in fact three bedroom plus, they are so family friendly, this is very important. So I strongly support this project and I wholeheartedly recommend it to my colleagues. Thank you.

Thank you Councillor Harper, Councillor Phelps Bondoroff is the seconder and you have the opportunity to speak to it.

Thank you very much. Mr. One question and then some comments, though they'll largely echo my colleagues question to you to staff. I'm noticing there's three parallel panhandle driveways in adjacent properties and I just wanted to know if there's any conversation about sharing a panhandle rather than having three running side by side as part of the proposal. There might be some history here, but it struck me looking over the plans that that seemed like a lot of drive.

Susan Mayor to Councillor Phelps Ponderoff I'm not aware of any discussions regarding sharing. They aren't separate parcels.

No. That's fair. I just thought I'd ask because this struck me as there could potentially have been some shared space. But that's all right. My colleagues already mentioned this is much needed family housing. Just looking through my notes as I was reviewing the staff application, I wrote that I was glad that they were retaining a large number of trees or as many trees as possible, which I think is very important. And that was also seen as responsive to some of the community concerns, which I think is also important. And rather than repeating my colleagues comments, I'll just add that this is the kind of housing in a space where it gives lots of people different options for transportation.

As has been mentioned, the Senate, the SVP mentions that this could be three to four story apartment spaces. So it's well within those kinds of long term plans and it's a very supportable form of family friendly housing in a great location and, and it seems quite reasonable and very supportable.

Thank you.

Excellent.

Thanks very much. Councillor Phelps Bondroff. Next to speak is Councillor Brownoff.

Thanks Mr. Mayor. Through you to staff. So I'm wondering, there are eight units on a panhandle dot and I'm wondering if we. Do we not have a restriction of how many because the panhandle, you know, if there was a fire for all those residents to get out on one road. I'm just kind of curious about that.

Thank you.

Through the mayor to councillor Brownhoff. This application has been reviewed by the fire department as part of our standard circulation. They did provide comments and feedback to the applicant. The applicant did adjust the proposal in light of those comments. There is actually a plan for a fire truck to be able to easily access the site and maneuver if necessary. And there are also requirements that they need to meet in order to bear the weight of. I believe it was truck number one, but I would have to go back to my notes to confirm that. So in a long winded way of saying this has been reviewed by fhir. FHIR has indicated that they are satisfied with the configuration.

So they're satisfied that they can get trucked there. But what about all the vehicles leaving at the same time?

I would anticipate that in the event of a significant emergency that people may choose not to use their vehicles. The fastest way out may very well be by foot.

Okay, thank you. And one other question to the engineering, if I could. Within the specs it talks about oil and grease, oil and grit separators in one section. And I know that we don't manage those. But is there policy that the property owner will actually ensure that the oil and grit separators are cleaned out because they do tend to accumulate a lot of grit.

Through the mayor to councillor Braunoff. Yeah, Typically it's the property owner's responsibility to maintain those. We don't have access to them. It is something that does arise where they aren't properly maintained over the long term.

Do we actually give them some direction or

not?

Typically that would come through the engineer who designs the facility.

Okay. Because in another section of your engineering standards and it talks about grass swale and sediment basins. So they could have any. Any one of those.

Yeah.

Yes, they could. They again, the engineer would design it to achieve those requirements of y oil grid separation.

Okay, thanks.

Okay, thank you. Next to speak is councillor Bryce.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I wonder if I could get staff to just clarify a description of how things are going to unfold is a little bit different than I have recalled in the past. If the subject development permit application is approved and advances to the building permit stage before the 496 tarquet drive proceeds, Sanich Parks require that the arborist report be updated and confirm whether the identified trees can be retained as part of the development. If any of these trees require alteration or removal to accommodate this project, the applicant would have to obtain the neighboring property owner's approval through you. Mr. Mayor. Could I have an explanation as to how that would unfold?

And is that something usual? I don't recall it expressed that way.

Ms. Chase.

Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Murdoch. Through you to Councillor Bryce. This is actually a relatively common framing of a requirement. In particular where trees are either on an adjacent property or are shared with an adjacent property. They are then in the custodianship of both property owners and therefore both property owners would need to agree with respect to any alterations that that need to happen to a particular tree. It may then mean that the applicant, if they are unable to secure that permission, they would then need to potentially amend their plans further in order to be able to conserve that particular tree if there are impacts to it.

Thank you. And Mr. Mayor, through you, would that negotiation and documentation occur property owner to property owner, or would the Miss Valley of Saanich be involved with that

through

the Mayor to Councilor Price? It's my understanding that that's normally property owner to property owner and then Senich would come in with any necessary permits at the. At the end.

Thank you for that clarification.

Next to speak is Councillor DeVries, followed by Councillor Plant.

Thank you. I'll keep it to comments at this point. So it's good to see these thoughtful family oriented homes coming forward in an area that is well served by transit and your services in school. And an appropriate setting for family housing. So glad to see this application before us. Thank you.

Thank you. Next to speak is Councillor plant.

Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I'd like to ask a question through you to Deputy Corporate Officer Froud because this is a rezoning. Can I confirm that people within approximately 150 meters were notified about tonight's meeting and about this rezoning through the Merit.

There would have been a radius notification as well as two published notices in the paper. Our radius notice isn't 150 meters. I believe I would need to double check, but I believe it is 90 meters. But yeah, with certainty it's not 150.

Okay, I apologize for that. So for me it was more, Mr. Mayor, about making sure that the public was aware of this. I do appreciate the person who provided us public input at the beginning of the meeting. I want to note that is that is the same person who gave us a correspondence on this matter. And so while I appreciate everybody who comes and talks to council, this is one of those circumstances where I do feel that the public, if they had, would have come and spoke to us. I do also want to acknowledge the Gordon Head Community association has a letter on record that says generally no objection to this application. And so I think we need to keep that in mind.

Even though there was comments about the community amenity fund process, the actual application was not. Was there a preference for six? Yes. But I think we also have to recognize that that letter stands for what it does. I have somewhat, not with any lightness, but kind of had a principle that townhouses belong almost everywhere in Saanich. And while this is a difficult situation for the neighbors, proximately who perhaps are not going to want to see this change, I do think that as much as possible has been done to make this viable. And I do want to assure the resident who spoke to us that the Shelburne Valley plan does not force his strata to do anything. It is rather a blueprint of what could be possible.

And I think it's fair to acknowledge the complicated ownership processes of strata are very likely to never see significant redevelopment because you would need to have agreement amongst the strata to sell. So on second reading of this, it does, I think, meet the standard of what we're expecting in Saanich and I do support it. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilor Plant. Next to speak is councillor Chambers.

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to say I really appreciated Councillor Brownhoff's questioning about the fire. That kind of changes a little bit for me. Okay, thank you.

Okay, thank you. If there are no other speakers, I'll also be supporting this application. I think it's great to see eight family suitable homes being created in a highly desirable neighborhood and also in a highly walkable part of the community with great access to services, amenities, high quality and frequent public transit and a very busy recreation centre. So I know that families will be looking forward to the opportunity to settle in this area. I acknowledge the comments from one of the speakers that there's been a lot of construction in the area. I also don't live far from here and can attest to having traveled by bike and vehicle and on foot through those construction zones at times and have had to wait. The good news is construction doesn't last forever.

The better news is it results in a lot of new places for folks, be able to put down roots in our community and build a life, and in the case of a shopping plaza, offer more services and amenities to folks who will be moving into the area or who already live in the area who wish to seek those services.

So I think this is an excellent use of the site and I look forward to the creation of those new homes and the families that eventually find them as homes in our community. I'm going to call the question on second reading. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. The motion carries. Thank you. I'll turn back to Councillor Harper if you wish to make the motion for third reading.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. That bylaw number 10296 be given third reading.

Okay.

Moved by Harper and seconded by Phelps Bondoroff on third reading. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That's carried. There's a bit more work yet to do, Councilor Harper, so I'll turn to you for the next motion.

Thank you. That zoning bylaw 2003amendment bylaw 2026 number 10 to rezone 4104 Shelburne street from the RS6 single family dwelling zone to the RM7 neighborhood residential mixed zone to construct eight three story attached housing units in two buildings be approved.

Okay. Moved by Harper and seconded by Phelps Bondroff. I'll call the question. Those in favor and opposed. Chambers is opposed. The motion carries. I will turn to Councillor Harper on the next motion, please.

That development permit DPR 00713 for 4104 Shelburne street be approved.

Second.

Okay. Seconded by Phelps Bondoroff. I'll call the question on the DP approval. Those in favor and opposed? Chambers is opposite. Opposed. The motion carries. Councillor Harper.

That final reading of the zoning bylaw amendment and ratification of the development permit be withheld pending registration of a covenant to secure the following A provision of a community amenity contribution totaling $30,720 to the Saanich Affordable Housing Fund.

B.

Protection and retention measures throughout all phases of site preparation and development as outlined in the Talmac Urban forestry report dated January 23, 2026 and an updated version thereof which may be required as work on site progresses to sub one, retain on site bylaw protected tree number 501.

Sub two, ensure best efforts to retain on site bylaw protected trees number 502 and 503 and sub three, retain eight off site bylaw protected trees, including trees number 552, number 553, number 554, NT 12, NT 14, NT 16, NT 17 and NT 18.

Thank you, Councillor Harper and Councillor Phelps Bondroff as seconder I'll call the question on that motion. On those in favour and opposed. Councillor Chambers is opposed. The motion carries. That takes us as far as we can go on 4104 Shelburne Street I. Although I assure you Shelburne will always remain a through street. That's as far as we can get on that particular property. And I'll move to Ms. Proud to introduce the next item for us.

The next item is excess service fee bylaw amendment. This is a report from the director of Engineering. And the purpose is to give three readings to excess service. Bylaw amendment. Bylaw 10308. To grant the Director of engineering authority to determine the unit rate calculations for fees payable by latecomers accessing excess and extended services and to update the collection period to align with current legislative authority.

Okay, thank you. I'll look to a member of council to make the motion for first reading. And we are welcome. You'd be welcome. Council to ask any questions at second reading. But in order to get there, I'll need a motion. Thank you. Councillor Phelps. Wandra, if you could make the motion for first reading.

Sure.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. That bylaw number 10308 be given first. First reading.

Seconded by Westhaver. Thank you. On first reading, those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. The motion carries. And I'll just need a motion for second reading to get us into questions. Councillor Phelps Bondroff.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The bylaw number 1 03. Sorry. That bylaw number 10308 be given second

reading and seconded by Westhaver. Mr. Hodgins is here if there are any questions in respect to of the change. I believe Councillor Plant has a question, so I'll turn to you in order to ask. Unless you had a question. Councillor Phelps. Wandrah, you do have a question. Hold for a second. Councillor Plant. I'll just go to the mover.

Thanks. Mr. Mayor, I didn't have too many comments on this, but I was wondering. There's no staff presentation, so I was wondering if staff might be able to elaborate a little bit on the stakeholder engagement around the development of this policy.

Mr. Hodgins, I don't know if that's something you're able to speak to, but I'll turn to you if you can provide any details

through the mayor, Mr. Phyllis Bonroff. We just had informal discussions with the development community and with residents who have been interested in connecting to a recently constructed infrastructure. Just through reviewing the policy internally and with our legal services department. It was determined that was pretty impractical to apply as currently written. It's suddenly used and therefore has been updated recently.

I'll let my colleagues ask some additional questions, Mr. Mayor, and happy to come back and chat a bit.

Okay, thank you. If there's not a question from the secondary, I'll turn to Councillor Plant for his question and any comments you may have.

Yeah, I think it'll start with the question and then that may lead to my comments. So thank you, Mr. Mayor, through you to staff, whoever can answer what FPO process, if any, will exist if there is a disagreement on how the director of Engineering calculates the latecomer agreement?

Mr. Hodgins, through the Mayor Tech Councilor Plant, the current intention right now is to work with the developer and their engineer to determine the appropriate unit rates of calculation. And you know, there are previous examples of how to do so. I've provided some examples in the report. For example, if they're extending a piece of infrastructure across their property, the common approach is to use a per meter, sorry, delta per meter approach. If they're improving, say for example, a lift station away from development, there might be a portion of that increased capacity that that developer or the previous developer Hormi has, has incorporated. We can also look at developing a policy.

I also will also mention that this is an interim amendment. The Water Resources Division is working on a long term amendment with the consultants that would address these questions. We're just looking at doing an interim, as we have, as I mentioned, a piece of infrastructure that local homeowners are looking to connect to right now it's impractical to develop a unit rate for them. And you know, it is a little time sensitive. Being storm infrastructure and upcoming wet season is kind of what's driven this interim amendment. We are awaiting again a further amendment from the Water Resources Division with consultant input.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would just ask maybe is Mr. Reams present at the meeting?

He is, yeah.

I'm not sure who's there, so apologies. So maybe my question I would like to elevate to a higher level. When an administrative decision is made by the district and an applicant or a resident doesn't agree with that, what processes exist for them? Based on what previous Mr. Hutchins just said, it doesn't sound like there really is an appeal process. So let's just go to a higher level. Is there a way for a resident who is unhappy with an administrative decision to appeal to council, or is that the responsibility of a member of council to bring to the table for consideration?

Mr. Ames, through you, Mr. Mayor. The way the bylaw is drafted, particularly the underlying bylaw, it puts the responsibility on the Director of Engineering. And so the bylaw typically would apply. It doesn't provide for an appeal mechanism to mayor and council. It's really an administrative decision of administrative staff. In that case, when there's an appeal, there is an internal administrative appeal that we work through to work with a resident or an aggrieved applicant to ensure that we're applying a consistent and policy approved formula. Beyond that, the appeal process is really to court. Any decision of administrative actor under a bylaw framework can seek judicial review of that administrative action.

And that's a step that's always open to an applicant or a developer who is particularly upset with the way a bylaw's been applied. But on my reading of the base bylaw, which this bylaw amends, it puts the responsibility solely on the director, without an appeal to counsel.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and to staff for providing the answers. I'm going to lend my support on it, largely because I heard that this was interim and that there is a larger pressing nature to this. I do think the general situation though, of when we delegate a decision making process to staff, that we should have it clarified in the report. What any potential disagreement process exists in what I've just heard is that if a person was unable to reach an agreement with the Director of Engineering through a process that we hope would be successful, they would have to go through a legal process. And I accept that. That is what I needed to know. It's not the responsibility of counsel, so it looks like you want to say something.

I need to stop you there, as that concludes your time. So thank you for your remarks. No, I know you can't hear it from there, and I don't mean to interrupt, but I do have to enforce the limit. Thank you. Are there any other speakers to the motion, which is for second reading? I just wanted to add my support to this. I know this is a sort of stopgap solution on the long on the way to a longer term solution. While this is probably not something that's frequently discussed at the Council Chamber, it is something that I end up hearing a lot about when it comes to servicing costs that are afforded to or required of our applicants.

And it's an issue that continues to be one which I know frustrates staff and frustrates applicants as they attempt to resolve some of the challenges in exactly what this bylaw would permit. So this change, I'm hopeful, will provide the necessary flexibility in the short term for staff to address some of those challenges. A growing municipality with aging infrastructure is confounded by challenges that don't allow us to more equitably allocate the cost of some of those servicing for larger capacity. And this change is hopefully one which will help alleviate some of those concerns, at least in the short term. So thank you to staff for bringing forward these proposed changes. I'm going to call the question on second reading.

Those in favour and opposed? None or opposed? The motion carries. Thank you. I will go back to the mover for third reading, please. Councillor Phelps Bondaroff, thank you very much.

That bylaw number 10308 be given third

reading and seconded by Westaver. Thank you. On third reading. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That's carried. Thank you so much.

Ms.

Proud, I'm going to turn it back to you to take us to the final item for discussion this evening. Well, except for adjournment, of course.

The last item is the Universal Declaration of the Rights of Trees. This is a notice from Councillor Chambers, who will read in the motion shortly.

Councillor Chambers, I'll turn it over to you to make the motion and we'll look for a seconder so you can speak to it.

Well, thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Universal Declaration of the Rights of the Tree. That the District of Saanich endorsed the principles of the Universal Declaration of the Rights of the Tree, recognizing trees as vital living beings with ecological, cultural and community value deserving protection, including the right to life, natural growth, integrity and regeneration.

Direct staff to consider and integrate these principles, where appropriate, into the ongoing tree protection bylaw update. Urban forest strategy implementation, official community plan, environmental development permit area guidelines and related strategic planning processes. Explore opportunities for partnerships with local environmental organizations, First Nations, Lake Wangan and with Saanich people and community groups to advance public education and stewardship of Saanich's urban forest, particularly the garrioke ecosystems. And that staff provide an update to Council as part of the next tree protection bylaw update report or the next relevant strategic planning report on potential alignments, recommended enhancements and any proposed policy or bylaw adjustments.

And is there a seconder? Councillor Chambers? I will second. So it gives you the opportunity to speak to it. And then I think. Well, then I can address where I think we can. How we can further address.

Thank you very much.

So, Councillor.

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

Councillor Chambers, I'll turn it over to you to provide comments. Comment and then I will speak to it. Go ahead.

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, for seconding the motion, I wanted to say thank you to Terras Veradrille, Quebec for being the first municipality in Canada to adopt the rights of the tree. And now I am hoping, as we live in the most biodiverse province in British Columbia on the coast of bc, a biodiversity hotspot within a hotspot within the globally imperiled coastal Douglas fir biogeoclimatic zone and subset garrioke ecosystems, we could possibly do this as well.

It would be very imperative, currently, with Bill 44 and the exponentially expanded building envelopes, making tree protection very difficult. We are already performing many of these things as the motion talks about staff integrating into what we are already doing. Isn't it interesting how a corporation like the District of Saanich has personage like a living sentient being and has rights, and with those rights can prescribe land use decisions that distribute a living ecosystem that has no rights to protect itself?

In Saanich, we live in a sacred ecology. These ecosystems are culturally derived landscapes that have evolved over 14,000 years or since time immemorial. Not recognizing these as living beings, which I consider, ich consider is a shallow ecology as opposed to a deep ecology, which recognizes the rights of nature, recognizes the right to be beyond their, you know, aesthetic reality that they too have a life process to see, to flower, to regenerate.

Placing nature outside ourselves and not recognizing its internal intrinsic right to exist disassociates us from land use decisions. Climate action. Climate action is not entirely possible until we recognize with reverence these cultural landscapes. We are not separate from nature, but a part of it. Cultural landscapes are irreplaceable and priceless. The Garri oak tree is a keystone species of the Garry oak ecosystem. So I'm really considering all the good that trees do for humanity, such as making the air more breathable and cooling things down when temperatures rise. The move isn't as strange as it might seem. But what is exactly the rights of nature movement? And what does it mean? So for millennia, humans have treated land and nature as property under the law.

Because of this, environmental protection laws can only go so far as to decide how much destruction to nature is legally allowed within the law. The land has no standing or rights in this scenario. The rights in nature nature movement is simply the recognition of nature and everything in it, such as trees and rivers. Have rights just like people do. A long held tradition in many indigenous cultures, this belief states that like humanity, nature has the right to exist, maintain, persist and regenerate as needed. Worldwide, communities and governing bodies are reshaping their relationships with nature and recognizing living entities as subject to legal rights. Can I finish, Mr. Mayor? One sentence?

Sure.

One sentence we can is the Rights of Nature movement is honored to serve. Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. I mentioned that I had some suggestions as the secondary of what we can do. I think that this is certainly worthy of discussion, but it is a big chunk of work that is really not something council can achieve in the balance of the term. And so I think it's more appropriate that we refer this to next council for their consideration as part of the strap planning process. So that would be my motion that this be referred to to the strap planning process for a future council. Thank you, Councillor Westhaver. I appreciate Councillor Chambers bringing this forward. I do think this is important work, but as I mentioned, I think it represents a considerable amount of work that staff would be required to do and likely require a considerable amount of consultation.

That is certainly important work, but not something that we can achieve really before the end of October. So it would be for the next council to determine if that's an appropriate use of resources and capacity. And I invite them into that conversation if they wish to have it. And in order to do that, I think it takes a referral from us. So I'm hopeful you'll support a referral because I think it's something that the next council may wish to prioritize. I'll turn to Councillor Westover, who is the seconder on the referral motion.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm not going to say too much more. Thanks to to Councillor Chambers and look forward to seeing how this evolves. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Westhaver. I will turn now. We're on referral counsel. So I will turn now to Councillor Phelps Bondoroff.

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. I think before we refer, we need some clarity on the motion itself.

Okay.

So in preparing for today's discussion, I was looking up the Universal Declaration of the Rights of the Tree. I found three different versions. We have the original version from November 28, November 18, 2018, Universal Declaration of the Rights of the Trees written by Ricardo Rey. We have the April 5, 2019, expanded Universal Declaration of the Rights of the Tree by Delphin Bothau. And then the International Convention on the Rights of the Trees. Now, the third one is obviously an international instrument which is not intended for municipal use. But my concern is that between the 2018 and 2019 versions, we see a change in articulation of rights.

So the first one does not articulate a legal right of trees. Or recognize trees as subjects of law. Law, but instead emphasizes the ecological importance of trees as living things, which I think we'd all very much agree. The second one starts to use explicit rights based language. And I think that that's interesting and a conversation worthy of having. But we need to know which one we're talking about because there's a different. There's definitely a shift. I'm also noticing a lot of the jurisprudence discussions around these issues that a lot of this is not intended to be directed at the municipal level. I've got to dust off my old environmental ethics textbook in preparation for tonight.

And I recall Christopher Stone's seminal piece, Should Trees have standing, written in 1972, towards legal rights of Natural Features, which effectively started the whole conversation around the rights of individual species, individual features. An interesting conversation within that is the question of are we talking about individual things or are we talking about ecosystems? So in Christopher Stone's conversation, he's talking less about individual trees and more about streams and rivers, forests and. And other features. When I was teaching this with my students many years ago, I often asked them the question, what about a cave? What is a cave? As an ecological feature, a cave is an absence of rock.

So in fact, if you were to grant rights to a cave, you're granting rights to a thing that doesn't actually exist, or it's an absence of a thing. There's a lot of layers to this. But a lot of the conversation that Christopher Stone was presenting that undergirds this kind of conversation is are individual things able to then be represented in court? Can they be harmed? Can they benefit from compensation? These are all questions that are really worthy of having, but they're legal, technical questions that we may not as a municipal entity be capable of engaging on. The question of rights and jurisprudence and legal representation in courts is not something that we can dictate as an individual organization, as a municipality, as a child of the province.

So my worry in referring this is effectively we're sending this to a committee that's going to be engaging in a very technical legal conversation that will ultimately result in an advocacy motion asking the province to make such a recognition or the federal government. This is the kind of rights language that we see at higher levels of government. But as a municipality, we really can't do this because the question of something being a rights holder gives it representation in the courts. Now, Christopher Stone makes a very compelling case for representation, but unfortunately it doesn't work the same way as human rights. I think there's some slippage in the conversation we've heard thus far, the problem is if you cut down a tree, it can no longer benefit from compensation.

It can no longer be represented court because it is no longer a tree, it is now a stump. And so when you look at these kinds of conversations, it has to be done through ecosystem perspective. I don't see clarity in the motion on that. So I think before we refer this, we should be clear on a, which universal declaration of trees are we talking about? And B, are we actually talking about the recognition of trees as ecologically important things, which I think we'd all agree to, or are we actually talking about a severe legal argument where we're talking about asking the municipality to create a representative of trees to serve in a legal capacity?

And I think that's a much larger conversation. The other thing I would bring into this conversation is there are some special trees that do have individual rights. Folks who are interested can look up the Treaty Oak in Austin, Texas. That state, I think, at one point threatened the death penalty for someone who tried to poison that tree. It's a very interesting conversation. There's a couple of trees that own themselves in Athens, Georgia and Eufaula, Alabama. And there's trees that are given individual religious protections. But there's a distinction between granting an individual tree special rights because it is a special thing, like a baobab in voudun religion, or in fact,

there was

actually a tree in Victoria about 100 years ago that had tax exempt status because it was also seen as a religious site. That's a different conversation than talking about trees as individual rights holders in an individual tree context, or talking about trees as an ecosystem or. Or as a natural feature. I think this conversation is too complex to refer in that context. We need clarity before we refer it. Otherwise I fear that conversation is going to be very messy and not result in anything productive that will help the municipality protect trees.

Okay, thank you, Councillor Phelps Bondorf. I think that's a conversation for the next council to seek clarity on. And so my suggestion would be to support the referral in order for that council to do so. Next to speak is Councillor Plant.

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think, number one, I want to acknowledge Councillor Chambers commitment to the environment and their desire to ensure that trees are considered. That being said, I don't support referring because of some of the comments that were made by my previous speaker, but also that this is so big that it should be brought to the council by the next council. Why would we give this future council this task if the future Council is. I mean, some of them are here potentially this evening who could bring it forward. I think this council has an abundance of initiatives to deal with trees and that this document that has been brought in at this moment, while perhaps having a merit, should have been brought in earlier.

And in referring it forward now when we have all this work underway, I think is unfortunate because it clouds it. I think that the most appropriate thing, unfortunately is to defeat this. Not because we don't care about trees. I don't want to suggest that defeat referral, which then would put the motion back on the floor. Floor, which would be my understanding, and then defeat that. I think a report was needed on some more than just a notice of motion. This is a significant piece of work and this is where a council or report I think would have been better. I think referring it to staff perhaps is an option as well for them to consider in the work plan. But I don't support referral.

I do have to say upon which the issue for me hinged and why I wasn't likely to support this coming into the meeting is not because I don't care about trees. I am not willing, as one member of this council, and I may be in the minority, I don't know, to indicate that trees are living beings that have rights. Do they have legal protections that municipalities and governments create? Yes. But I am not willing to say at this point that trees are living beings. And if that makes me a minority, I accept that view. I want to end by just saying I don't think referral is appropriate because it's too big and new to all of the work we've already undertaken with our tree protection bylaw.

Wait for that tree protection bylaw update to come and then see if we need to augment. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Of course, if council wishes to defeat and ask for a staff report, it's welcome to do so. I won't be supporting that request as I don't think it's appropriate at this stage of our term to be making that use of staff's precious time. But that is certainly something that a future council could direct in the constellation of priorities that it chooses to identify as part of the next four year term. Next to speak is Councillor Brownhoff.

Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I too have so many issues with this motion, only because it's too broad and there's too many things that, as my colleague has said, that could be interpreted a different way in Saanich. We do have high value trees. We do have a significant tree by law, where trees are actually recognized in a bylaw, so they're protected. I actually think they used to get a plaque because they're a heritage tree, but I'm not quite sure. We have Tree Appreciation Day every year, so those are all the things that I can remember off the top of my head. And since the tree bylaw is still being drafted, I don't know what other things that they'll be looking at as well.

I think it's important to recognize that this type of motion at the end of a term almost is pretty hard to try and ask our staff to do a report or even the referral. I have a hard time thinking about referring this amount of work to the next incoming council, when in actual fact, I think what I want the next incoming council to be focused on is budget and managing facilities and all sorts of things. It's not that I don't love trees, because I do. I have a wonderful Garry Oak in my cul de sac and I talk to the owners that have it out front and I don't know, they don't like it as much because of all the leaf drops.

But it's an important part of our climate action plan and there are policies within that plan that talk to the trees about preserving trees, about planting more trees. I know various divisions here at the hall are working on an interesting pilot around trees. So I'm. I'm confused. I'm not sure I could support it being referred and I know I couldn't support the original motion because it just has too many loopholes within it to look at. So, thanks.

Okay, thank you. Councillor Brownhoff on referral. Councillor Chambers.

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Of course I'll support referral and just appreciate that it wasn't just a defeated right then and there. I feel that some of the answers from my colleagues are answers that were said before and perhaps maybe don't represent the actual current motion on the table and perhaps not an open minded concern because it says right here, this is actually just a copycat of what we did.

So if certain members are interested in the. In legal stuff, this is just a copy of what Quebec City did. And it was for staff who are working on the bylaw to see if there's any opportunity to improve the bylaw using this language. Because this language about appreciating the intrinsic value of trees is critical in decolonization. It is critical in understanding reconciliation, is also about understanding cultural landscapes. And as a counselor here now for eight years, I will say that there is a failure to acknowledge cultural landscapes of the coastal Douglas fir biogeoclimatic zone. And this is a problem that I have. It's very colonial thinking. And we need to decolonize our land use, and we need to stop saying the word stakeholder.

We need to stop saying sterilization for site preparation, and we need to start embellishing some of the land use techniques that were used on this territory for 14, 14,000 years since time immemorial. And that is to keep things living and to have reverence for nature. Okay. This wasn't another entire legal thing. This was about following what another exemplary municipality did. And I can't say I'm surprised by my colleagues tonight. I can't say I'm surprised, but I am sure disappointed. And I sure hope I'm on the next council because you know what I'll be bringing on the first day.

Okay, Councillor Bryce on referral.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. On the wisdom to refer, I will indicate my reluctance to refer has nothing to do with my lack of love of trees that we all have. And if it was Susan Bryce, I might agree with this. It's councillor Bryce, and we're talking about the municipality of Saanich. So we have to have precision. In my preparation for tonight, I too searched for the declaration of the rights of the tree, which are mentioned in the motion and could not find actual specificity that was required to have this discussion tonight. I researched a little bit into the community that has actually endorsed this. It did seem to me in their language that they had not moved as far along in tree protection, actually, as this municipality.

And this was rather a new sort of invigorating their community to take some respect for trees. So I am conflicted, as councillor Brownhoff said, in referring this to the next council. I don't know what I'd be referring. It's so broad. I would be thinking that I needed to clarify things so that the future council would know whether or not they wanted to invest time and time and resources. Obviously that wouldn't go to other endeavors. So I thank councillor Chambers, who always can be counted on to speak up for nature. I feel I learned a lot from her. I don't feel that I can in good conscience refer this, Although it is tempting.

I think it's too, too broad for a future council. And there will be lots of opportunities for the eight people who are sitting around that table to make some decisions themselves on whether they wish to proceed with this.

Okay, thank you. Next to speak on referral is councillor Devries.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I will not Support referral. I think this is really well intentioned, as many have alluded to, but it's missing an important piece of clarity about what would be referred. And I think that is important that we are providing clarity and a clear case of what's going to be discussed. And as many have mentioned, this is a very broad topic and approach. And I'm always interested in looking into ways and having the discussions about how can we put our existing resources to work to yield better outcomes, better results for residents and for the environment. I would have liked to see a report or something that provided clarity and made the case of how this may fit into our current policy context, whether it be the tree protection bylaw, the biodiversity conservation strategy, urban forest strategy, climate action plan plan, or many other smart growth and environmental policies and initiatives that the district has underway.

And so, while I agree wholeheartedly with the values that this motion was rooted in, and I think we all do, I'm not seeing the value in referring it because I don't know what exactly we're wanting the next council to discuss. But I'm sure that regardless of who's on that council, I'm sure they will be discussing these matters, just as we have this last term in passing many of these policies to improve outcomes as it relates to trees and the environment more broadly. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to first time speakers before I go back to those who've already spoken, so I'll go to Councillor Harper.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yes. First of all, I do want to thank my colleague because I do think that this is a very worthwhile conversation to have, and it certainly causes one to think a great deal. But I think from all of the debate that I've heard here today, and I have to concur, it's unclear to me exactly what would be referring. And there's a huge difference between what we would be doing at a provincial or federal level in terms of these rights versus what we can be doing locally. And this municipality can take pride in the fact that, as many of my colleagues have mentioned, that we have already done a great deal in this regard, between our tree bylaws, our biodiversity strategies, our climate action, all of these things that we have done, because we do recognize, okay, the importance of.

The importance, the absolute importance of trees. And although I don't, you know, particularly want to get blasted out by lights here. Yes. Okay. Hold the time.

Councillor Westhaver is called a point of privilege.

Sorry, there's an emergency light that's gone on that's blinding us all on this side of the chambers. Thank you, Mr. Reams.

Yeah,

maybe I'll try to carry on while I'm doing this, but just to, just to clarify, for example, one of my colleagues mentioned the lovely garry oak that is in her community. I can say it. On my Property, I have 14 full grown Garry oaks and I wouldn't allow them to be gone for anything. And in fact, when we renovated our property, there was one we could have taken out because of where it was located, relevant relative to the renovations, and we saved it. We were able to save it. So I think that this isn't about any of us loving or not loving the environment or loving or not loving trees, but it is, and it is very, very late.

Not tonight, but it is very, very late in the term. And so in fact, I think this is the type of thing that should be the property of the next council should it feel the need to move forward on it. And hopefully at that point there'll be a great deal of clarity about exactly what it is that they are considering, because I think the principles that are discussed are worthwhile, but I still have a lot of questions about what it would actually mean on the ground. So from that perspective, I'm having trouble with both the referral and the basic motion. Anyhow, sorry, there've been lots of distractions here for people who are watching between lights and other things.

But I think I just want to close by saying this is not about not supporting the principles and the, the ideas behind this, but this is a more practical discussion I think that we're trying to come to grips with. Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Councillor Harper, and apologies for the disruption. The light seems to have gone off and hopefully it's not to come back on, unless of course, it's needed. I'm going to go now to, for a second time, Councillor Raunoff and then Councillor Westhaver.

Thanks. Mr. Mayor, I just have a question of staff to clarify. In this motion, it talks about environmental development permit areas. I didn't think we had one anymore.

So just to be clear, this is not staff's language, so I.

No, no, I know, but if Councillor Chambers, she'll bring it. And I'm all for you to bring it back in the next term, but I want it to be. Be accurate, that's all.

Mr.

Correct.

With respect to. To trees on private land.

Correct.

We don't have an environmental development per area.

Thank you.

Okay.

For a second time, Councillor westhaver.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to note, I will be voting against the referral. I. I really appreciate the conversation around the table and those of you that are, are very in tune to what, what would we actually be referring forward. And again, Councillor Chambers, thank you for your passion commitment to the environment. And if you're a member of the future Council, I highly recommend you bring it forward then. Thanks.

Okay, I'm going to go now to Councillor Phelps Bondroff for a second time.

Thank you very much. In the light of offering advice for how this would be better, more successful in a future time, I wanted to flag a few things. I think it's important that we clarify which declaration we're will be recognized. Second of all, I think it's important to explain, explore what is meant by rights. A lot of the literature talks about individual right holders versus interest holders. Third, we have to talk about what we're actually looking at when it comes to actually recognizing those rights or interests. A lot of the literature talks about how human rights need. The rights of individual things need to be tailored to that thing, the natural entity.

Third, I think we need distinction as to whether we're talking about individuals or ecosystems or. Fourth, sorry, individuals or ecosystems. Individual things versus contiguous systems. An individual tree can exist without its mycorrhizal networks. And so we couldn't just consider the rights of the tree. We'd have to have other layers to it. And I think also we'd have to consider the practical implications and intention of this. A lot of the intention of the rights of nature movement was to change the public perception and social values around recognizing natural features. And, and largely, as you've seen my colleagues reflect this evening, that's largely being done in Saanich. We're natural, Sanich. We have lots of really strong protections.

So then the question would then be what legal reforms are needed to continue to protect the environment. And my recommendation would be the plans we have, the Urban Forest Strategy, the Biodiversity Conservation Strategy and the Tree Protection Bylaw, all really important pieces of policy this district has that need to be fully funded if we are going to protect our natural features. My personal prioritization would be those things. I'm happy to have this conversation, but I think we need a lot more clarity as my colleagues have reflected a deeper background or happy to make some literature references for that. I'm not familiar with what Taras Vidroi did, but I think we need to take a deeper dive into the actual technicalities of this if we're going to have that conversation.

Because even the idea, even in the conversation thus far, there's been equivocation around what constitutes rights versus interests versus representation. And that in and of itself makes it almost impossible to move forward in a coherent conversation leading to a constructive outcome.

Okay, thank you. As there don't appear to be any further speakers for referral, I can read the room. I can tell council has no interest in referring this one, or limited interested in referring this at this time. And clearly that's not a reflection of our view of this as an important item for consideration, but rather the referral is not the appropriate path. And I can. I'll concede the point. My. My endeavor throughout this term has been for us to stay focused on those priorities that we identified as part of our strategic plan at the outset. And I commend council for making its way through most of the four years without continuing to augment that plan and adding additional items. I and others have seen the byproduct of that process.

When council continues to refer things to staff, the list gets longer and longer and ultimately the work grinds and it frustrates staff, it frustrates council, and I think it frustrates the public who are waiting for results on those important items. It's always been my priority that we agree on the priorities and we appropriately resource those priorities so that staff can work on them and deliver. And then we can establish as a new term emerges, a new set of priorities. And I look forward to the next mayor and council having the opportunity to do that. But I think it's clear that this is not something that in the final three months of this term, council will be putting to staff to begin the work, but rather a future council may have the opportunity to do that.

So I'll call the question on referral. Those in favor and opposed? Councillors Bryce, Phelps, Bonderoff, Brownoff, Westhaver, Devries, Harper and Plant are opposed. The motion to refer is defeated. We're now back to the main motion. I believe in the course of referral, we probably canvassed the debate on this topic, so I will call the question on the declaration. Those in favour and opposed? Councillors Bryce, Phelps, Bonderoff, Brownoff, myself, West, Haber, Devries, Harper and Plant are opposed. The motion is defeated. Again, not for a lack of interest or concern, but rather out of certainty that more work and resources are required in order to support an initiative of this scale. I will now just confirm with Ms.

Froud that the appropriate motion. Final motion for the evening is one of adjournment.

That is correct, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Westhaver. And seconded by Devries on adjournment. Those in favor and opposed? None are opposed. That's carried. Thank you very much, everyone. Have a good evening.