{"videoId":"df41a4ec-8330-4d05-a09b-78375c0af80a","source":"assemblyai","segments":[{"t":0,"text":"Sam, It's.","speaker":"A"},{"t":285,"text":"Welcome everyone. Welcome to council meeting on September 14th. This is one of three to go. I'm looking for a motion to reconvene the meeting of council.","speaker":"B"},{"t":306,"text":"So moved.","speaker":"A"},{"t":307,"text":"Second. Thank you. All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Because we've been away for a bit, I just want to go through some of the things that have happened over the summer.","speaker":"B"},{"t":324,"text":"We've had an amazing summer of events and council wants to provide their gratitude to organizers and volunteers alike of Township, Community Arts Council, Farmers Market and of course ribfest that we all were able to take in this past weekend as well.","speaker":"B"},{"t":345,"text":"This summer I received some information about some amazing young esquimalt people and I promised that as I like to do, I would highlight their successes in representing Esquimalt.","speaker":"B"},{"t":360,"text":"And so congratulations go out to Mayel sanborn, who placed fifth in the 100 meter breaststroke at the Junior Pan Am Pan Pacific Games and Chase Dixon Little who is a representative of Squamilt.","speaker":"B"},{"t":377,"text":"He represented us with success at Zone 6 box lacrosse at the B. C. summer Games. And we always like to hear about these successes of our community and it's nice that we can highlight them.","speaker":"B"},{"t":395,"text":"So if you know of anything, please send it to us. There is some late correspondence council to add to the agenda. So I would ask for a motion to approve the agenda with the late correspondent.","speaker":"B"},{"t":413,"text":"So move approval with the late correspondence.","speaker":"A"},{"t":416,"text":"Thank you. Discussion. All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Motions carried. We have the minutes of the regular council meeting held on July 20th and the special council meeting held on August 24th.","speaker":"B"},{"t":432,"text":"So a motion to adopt those please. Thank you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":436,"text":"Second.","speaker":"C"},{"t":437,"text":"Thank you. Are there any errors, omissions or changes?","speaker":"B"},{"t":441,"text":"No.","speaker":"D"},{"t":442,"text":"Seeing None. All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Motions carried. We are down to bylaws for adoption and we have the adoption of council remuneration. Bylaw Council. This has been reviewed and so it's just to adopt.","speaker":"B"},{"t":461,"text":"I would look for the motion. Thank you. And seconded.","speaker":"B"},{"t":468,"text":"Second.","speaker":"A"},{"t":469,"text":"Thank you. All those in favor? Any opposed? Councillor Cavins is opposed. Motion is carried. We have the adoption of bylaw notice enforcement. Bylaw number 2839amendment. Bylaw number 2026 number 3191.","speaker":"B"},{"t":484,"text":"And so a motion to adopt that and as I've already read it out, you can just say motion to adopt. Thank you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":496,"text":"Second.","speaker":"C"},{"t":497,"text":"Thank you. All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. I failed to say to the audience that we do have regrets from both Councillor Helliwell and Councillor Brame. And so we made ourselves a little more compact for you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":517,"text":"We are now down to public input. And this is on item 7 which is are the staff reports. Item 8, bylaw readings not subject to a public hearing.","speaker":"B"},{"t":532,"text":"Item 9 and 10, which is the notice of motion and the rise and report. Are there any members of the public that wish to speak? You are allowed two minutes. Please give your name and address for the record.","speaker":"B"},{"t":552,"text":"Welcome.","speaker":"B"},{"t":554,"text":"Can you hear me?","speaker":"E"},{"t":555,"text":"Yeah.","speaker":"C"},{"t":556,"text":"Holly Courtright, 522 Springfield Street. I am just here to address the development variance permit that I got in the mail regarding 899 Esquimault Road. I'm of a few different minds with this. I'm a.","speaker":"E"},{"t":569,"text":"I don't think it will affect property values in that building. But that being said, I do. I am concerned about the impact further on down the line if we begin adjusting agreements after the fact.","speaker":"E"},{"t":582,"text":"And not only that, but I'm concerned that if we do this it makes the size untenable in the future for the proper clinics or medical professionals to be in place.","speaker":"E"},{"t":594,"text":"So I just am a bit concerned that not enough work has been done to actually get that space filled adequately in the way that it was agreed upon.","speaker":"E"},{"t":604,"text":"And on the other hand I do wear a different hat sometimes. And I will say that it is not overly beneficial to have lots of four lease signs all up and down our main street. So it's just.","speaker":"E"},{"t":619,"text":"I wanted to offer a couple of different perspectives for you guys to consider as you're thinking about this. But it is really important to get those medical professionals and medical areas into our community.","speaker":"E"},{"t":632,"text":"And so I just want to make absolutely sure that it's been considered whether or not enough work has gone into finding appropriate tenants for that space. Thank you so much.","speaker":"E"},{"t":644,"text":"Thank you. Welcome. Hello.","speaker":"B"},{"t":647,"text":"Doug Scott, 897 Scarlet Road. I'm talking in regards to the zoning change as well. The original understanding and what was registered in the 219 covenant there would be 4,000 square feet.","speaker":"D"},{"t":657,"text":"They've taken it down to almost 2,000 square feet on a non accessible by wheelchair. You have to go downstairs to get into it.","speaker":"D"},{"t":665,"text":"When it stated that it would be on the main floor accessible and that the main floor would not be a retail space. But they've already got signs up for lease for a retail space.","speaker":"D"},{"t":676,"text":"Also there's no access for public parking when in the 219 covenant they also guaranteed five EV parking spots. I'm not in favor of this.","speaker":"D"},{"t":684,"text":"I'm not in favor of doing changes when what we were promised is not what we're getting. I do understand that the clinic is in there.","speaker":"D"},{"t":692,"text":"I'm really happy that We've got doctors and that they're going to take people on. Bravo for that. But we didn't get what we were promised. And that's what they got was the additional height because they had made promises.","speaker":"D"},{"t":705,"text":"And if they can't keep the promises, then why should the council change what was already agreed upon?","speaker":"D"},{"t":711,"text":"Thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":712,"text":"Thank you. Welcome. Please come forward.","speaker":"B"},{"t":720,"text":"I'll be speaking on the same item.","speaker":"F"},{"t":721,"text":"Good evening.","speaker":"B"},{"t":723,"text":"Good evening. Praveen Sandu. I'm an owner at 899 Esquimalt Road.","speaker":"F"},{"t":727,"text":"I wrote a four page letter seeking deferral of this motion or that it be defeated based on gaps in the record and insufficient time to fully provide meaningful input. What I can add in two minutes is one.","speaker":"F"},{"t":741,"text":"The entrance of Terra Nova Medical Clinic on Head street has three significant inclines and declines in the tiniest space circled in blue in my attachment to the letter. I visited the area with my parents and nephew.","speaker":"F"},{"t":755,"text":"The adjacent parade is sloped. Head street has another slope on another angle and the clinic entrance is down a set of stairs, a third angle. My parents had trouble navigating without even going down the stairs.","speaker":"F"},{"t":768,"text":"The two other commercial units are on Esquimot Road at ground level and have a flat surface as an entrance. 2.","speaker":"F"},{"t":776,"text":"I was unable to tell from the available records how exactly the 219 Covenant for the medical clinic was modified in March of this year.","speaker":"F"},{"t":785,"text":"My requests for documents are outstanding and today it seems council is voting on a variance on the foundation of what occurred in March of this year.","speaker":"F"},{"t":795,"text":"Oddly, only the proposed tenant appeared before the APC on August 18th of this year with materials that were vague on use, traffic and parking. Ms.","speaker":"F"},{"t":804,"text":"Edwards couldn't provide any input regarding the covenant for I a professional survey of my parking stall and P1 and I say it shows evidence of parking bylaw infractions.","speaker":"F"},{"t":814,"text":"Council therefore cannot rely on assurances from the developers professionals who did not physically measure the space. Nor can Council rely on statutory immunity with a variance knowing about structural bylaw infractions. 5.","speaker":"F"},{"t":826,"text":"I've seen various emails from councillors to local residents. It seems some of you may already have made your decision. I hope you will change your mind. I urge you to defer or defeat this motion. Thank you.","speaker":"F"},{"t":842,"text":"Thank you. Are there other members of the public that wish to speak? Are there other members of the public that wish to speak? I'll call a third time. Seeing none, we will move on.","speaker":"B"},{"t":856,"text":"And next up we have the staff report on resignation. The resignation of Councillor Armour. Ms. Hopkins, do you wish to add anything to the report?","speaker":"B"},{"t":867,"text":"No, nothing further. To add, this is a statutory requirement.","speaker":"E"},{"t":872,"text":"Okay. So Council, we need to formally receive this, and so we will do that.","speaker":"B"},{"t":877,"text":"By motion, I'll move this recommendation that we receive the official resignation from councillor armour effective August 21, 1926, and resolve that a by election is not required to be scheduled.","speaker":"G"},{"t":891,"text":"Second.","speaker":"A"},{"t":893,"text":"Thank you. Do you wish to speak to it any further? All right. And seconder, no. Any further discussion?","speaker":"B"},{"t":901,"text":"Just to of course thank Councillor Armour for his eight years of service and certainly should go unrecognized. Thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":909,"text":"Thank you. Good. And I too was going to do that. So I think we need to acknowledge eight years service for your community is. Is significant. And so I will call the question. All those in favor? Any opposed?","speaker":"B"},{"t":927,"text":"None opposed. Motions carried. Okay. We now move down to development variance permit application, 899 Esquimault Road. Mr. Brown.","speaker":"B"},{"t":936,"text":"Your Worship, members of council, Mr. Tang will introduce the subject and then the application or the applicant agent is here if council wishes to hear from them.","speaker":"H"},{"t":946,"text":"Thanks. Good evening, Mayor and council. Tonight we have a development variance permit application for 899 Esquimo Road. Within the zoning bylaw, there's a requirement that 370 square meters be dedicated towards health clinic use.","speaker":"I"},{"t":960,"text":"The applicant is proposing to reduce that to 279, which is a reduction of 91 square meters. The proposed use is for a sales office for the new development at age 17, Esquimault Road.","speaker":"I"},{"t":975,"text":"The lessee of the lessee, the proposed lessee of the owner is here to give a presentation as well.","speaker":"I"},{"t":985,"text":"Questions for staff. Go ahead. Councillor.","speaker":"B"},{"t":993,"text":"Sorry, just. Could you clarify the situation with parking? Because there was some public input around. It wasn't clear what had happened with our parking arrangement under the original plan","speaker":"A"},{"t":1006,"text":"through your worship, Councillor. Thank you. There are eight spots dedicated towards the commercial uses. And regardless of which units we're talking about, the eight spots are for all the commercial uses.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1018,"text":"Okay, so the clinic currently right now could use all eight commercial spots. And when more tenants come in, they'd have to figure out a way to distribute.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1027,"text":"Okay, and then the parking, is that behind the gate or is that accessible to the public theater?","speaker":"A"},{"t":1033,"text":"Worship Council? The gate should be open during the hours, but I believe that the. The owner has some sort of buzzing system as well.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1042,"text":"But it still should be open as there's five publicly available EV charging spots that should be open to the public as well.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1050,"text":"Okay, and maybe this is more of a question for the proponent, but are you understanding why the clinic could not be at ground level? Why it had to be in the basement?","speaker":"A"},{"t":1061,"text":"Was that made Clear to staff through your worship council.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1065,"text":"That was not clear. It was a decision made by the applicants.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1069,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"D"},{"t":1070,"text":"And would that. Would staff's opinion be that that's because ground level retail space is more desirable to rent, to lease out than a basement space? Is that, is that. I mean, I don't know if other.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1082,"text":"Any other rationale why that would be","speaker":"A"},{"t":1085,"text":"through your worship, the council, the. The total space is required to be dedicated towards medical clinic space. It is up to the applicant to lease out space as they choose. So it's a better question suited for.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1096,"text":"Yeah, okay, I'll ask that later. Thank you very much.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1099,"text":"Any other questions for staff? Yes, councilor Kevin.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1103,"text":"Just wanted to get a definition of what. Remind me what the zoning bylaw says. For what? Health clinic or facility use. Sorry,","speaker":"G"},{"t":1114,"text":"sorry, I'll just pull that up.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1126,"text":"It.","speaker":"D"},{"t":1161,"text":"I'm having the same problem.","speaker":"G"},{"t":1162,"text":"So. I'm actually having trouble finding that definition with the zoning Violet right now. I actually don't see it within the definitions, but that's at a glance. This is the zoning by the question.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1200,"text":"Could. Could we continue with questioning and then have you bring that back tonight?","speaker":"B"},{"t":1209,"text":"I just had a glance at the zoning bylaw and I don't see it in the definitions. In the first section of the zoning bylaw.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1217,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1219,"text":"Would you or Mr. Brown be able to state how in the absence of a definition, how you would interpret that","speaker":"G"},{"t":1227,"text":"in typical bylaw? It would be just what is the dictionary definition, how it be typically defined. So in lieu of actually having it defined, that would typically be the way that it would be defined.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1247,"text":"Okay, Councilor Boardman, thank you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1252,"text":"This could be a question for the developer, but I'm just wondering what the significance of the renovations that will be required to support this proposed use. Is it a big renovation that's needed or.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1266,"text":"Your worship councillor, that you're correct. It's better suited for the applicants.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1269,"text":"I'll do that. Thank you.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1272,"text":"My question is around and I want to come back to the parking because I'd like to understand whether the parking on the first floor is designated for the medical space.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1292,"text":"Your worship, there should be eight spots dedicated towards the commercial use. So regardless of whether that's the clinic on the main story or on the basement story, it's all eight parking spaces for all three of those units.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1307,"text":"Okay. So they were never designated specifically. However, it was supposed to be 4,000 square feet of medical. Yeah, okay. And the. What happens at the end of a year with this proposal?","speaker":"B"},{"t":1323,"text":"So along with this, along with this variance, there's a Section 219 covenant and that covenant defines the tenure. The lessee is only avenue housing. The duration is only for one year and at the end of that that terminates.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1337,"text":"And the only use allowed is for medical clinic space.","speaker":"I"},{"t":1341,"text":"Thank you very much. Okay, any further questions for staff at this time? Thank you. I understand that the proponent is here to speak to us. Welcome.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1373,"text":"Good evening. So I'm Lisa Edwards with Avenir Development and the proponent is also here so we can all address all of the questions together. I'm just quickly going to describe the proposed temporary use and then. Glad to Questions.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1392,"text":"So the proposed use is for a leasing center for the Horizon, which is a new purpose built seniors rental community currently under construction at 817 Esquimalt Road.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1406,"text":"This project was previously known as High Point, been rebranded now and it's designed for moderate income active seniors and it introduces a more flexible approach to independent living.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1420,"text":"It offers opportunities for residents to participate in community life in exchange for reduced rent. It also offers optional services such as home care within the building to support residents when they need it.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1437,"text":"And it's also a community designed to support seniors to help them maintain independence, choice and connection.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1445,"text":"Since choosing a seniors community is a significant decision which often involves family members, the Leasing centre will give prospective residents a convenient place to learn about this new model of senior living and decide if the Horizon is right for them.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1466,"text":"The Space the proposed leasing centre occupies 24. 5% of the commercial space at Pacific House.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1474,"text":"It's outlined highlighted on the plan there and it is accessible from the street and the parkade and it includes a washroom and the leasing area. No exterior alterations are proposed and really no interior alterations either.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1492,"text":"Just going to be an empty space with some furniture during the temporary period. The purpose of the leasing centre is to support the Horizon during its lease up period. It will operate primarily by appointment with two staff members.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1511,"text":"So we anticipate very limited traffic and activity and seniors and their families will come learn about the community and we'll answer questions for them.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1523,"text":"So this is a temporary use proposed to begin this fall and be completed when the Horizon opens in 2027, ending next fall.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1535,"text":"Regarding parking, parking impacts are expected to be minimal with two staff members and two staff parking spaces dedicated to this unit plus the visitor parking. We expect that to be completely adequate.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1551,"text":"So in summary, the leasing centre is a low impact temporary use. It occupies 24. 5% of the Pacific House commercial space and it would end when the Horizon opens in 2027.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1566,"text":"During that time it gives seniors in Esquimalt and their families a convenient place to explore a new housing option and make an informed decision about whether it's right for them. We respectfully ask council to support the application.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1585,"text":"Thank you.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1588,"text":"Thank you. Questions for Ms. Edwards? Go ahead.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1593,"text":"Thank you. I have just several parking questions. So on a few slides before that, let's see. Oh, that. When you talk about parking. Can we go back to that slide for a sec, please? Thank you.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1610,"text":"So my understanding from the previous conversation is that there are eight spots together, Eight spots in total for both the upstairs and the downstairs stairs. We didn't talk about staff or anything.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1625,"text":"So the two staff parking spaces are separate.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1630,"text":"Those are dedicated for this unit.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1633,"text":"Are there any dedicated staff parking spaces for the lower unit?","speaker":"C"},{"t":1638,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1641,"text":"Good evening, mayor and council. My name is Bobak and I'm representing strata lot 68 that this variance is being proposed to. There are total eight parkings for commercial unit and two parkings are being dedicated to this unit.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1656,"text":"And four parkings were dedicated to the medical clinic that is open now. And two more parkings will be dedicated to the upper extra unit that we still have.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1670,"text":"So four for the medical unit, two for the upstairs unit that isn't filled yet.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1675,"text":"There's 4,000 square feet of commercial.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1678,"text":"Yes.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1678,"text":"And eight parkings are dedicated for 2,000 square feet of medical clinic. And two more is dedicated for this unit, which is roughly thousand. And another two more that.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1688,"text":"We have another unit available on main floor that is dedicated for this unit.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1693,"text":"So in total there's 14 spots.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1695,"text":"Eight. In total there is eight commercial parking spots. On top of that we have visitor parkings as well.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1703,"text":"Okay, so of the eight, there's going to be two staff from the horizons parking. That leaves six left.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1710,"text":"Correct.","speaker":"L"},{"t":1711,"text":"Okay, out of that six, four is already dedicated for the medical Terranova that is already in the.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1717,"text":"Okay, that was unclear before. That there are four dedicated for the medical clinic.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1721,"text":"Correct.","speaker":"L"},{"t":1725,"text":"The staff in the medical clinic, do they park in that four? My concern is for people coming to the medical clinic. Are there going to be spots for them when the upstairs is filled as well?","speaker":"C"},{"t":1737,"text":"Right now, four parkings are dedicated for P1 level for the Terranova, but we also have some extra parkings because when we. When this project came forward for the development permit, the parking ratio was 1. 3.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1753,"text":"So out of 66 units, we have 94 parkings. So we have quite bit of parking available at site. And out of those parkings we have 10 visitor parkings, out of which five of them are for also public EV.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1769,"text":"It's first come, first serve. And whoever is visiting the site, they can use Those parkings as well.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1776,"text":"Okay. So if I am coming to the medical clinic and there's no medical clinic parking, I can use a visitor's parking.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1783,"text":"Those five EV parkings are for public for six hours a day. P1 gate is supposed to be open from 9:00am to 6:00pm, something like that","speaker":"K"},{"t":1791,"text":"for the EV ones. But for the other five that you","speaker":"C"},{"t":1793,"text":"just mentioned as well, the other five is for residential use only. Like we have two gates on P1 level. Yeah, one gate that is in the photo that, that gate opens during the day for six hours a day.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1807,"text":"So everybody can come in, either their patient or public member. Anyway.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1811,"text":"Sure. I don't want to belabor this point at all, but I. I remain concerned that for a.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1817,"text":"A medical clinic that has six practitioners working at a time, that there's not going to be enough spots for their clients to come and visit.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1825,"text":"So.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1826,"text":"Okay, thank you.","speaker":"C"},{"t":1830,"text":"I think I had. Councillor Morrison.","speaker":"B"},{"t":1832,"text":"I'm just continuing on the parking. So just when we say four dedicated spots, does that mean there'd be signage saying clinic only parking?","speaker":"A"},{"t":1840,"text":"So people coming to visit the display center would not be able to just decide to park there.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1846,"text":"However, the clinic wants to use those parkings. It's how they're gonna actually choose whether give it to their staff or have it for their patients. But as Councillor Andrea mentioned, there's 6,000.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1859,"text":"We're talking about 6,000 patients, but being attached. So either staff, are they going to park there or they're going to park in public EV parkings. That is not something that we can control.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1872,"text":"It's going to be for medical director to decide.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1875,"text":"But in any event, someone pulling into that parkade will see four signs that say clinic only do not park if no one else should park there other than clinic.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1886,"text":"Correct. There. Nobody can park in there unless the Terranova clinic, they decide that they give those to their patients. Or as I mentioned before, we have extra parkings.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1897,"text":"If we see that Terranova, they're coming to ask for more parkings for their staff. We always have more parkings on different levels to provide.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1906,"text":"Okay, so one other question regarding. So you said the timeline would be roughly a one year lease because that's when the completion of the building would be.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1915,"text":"The new building would have its own management office for leasing and whatnot. So you wouldn't need to use this space for clients to come in?","speaker":"A"},{"t":1924,"text":"Yeah, as soon as the building is open, we'll move in there.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1927,"text":"You'd have your own administration on site there?","speaker":"A"},{"t":1930,"text":"Yes.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1930,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"D"},{"t":1930,"text":"So the only reason why would be more than a year is if the building got delayed.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1936,"text":"Technically, yeah.","speaker":"J"},{"t":1937,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"D"},{"t":1940,"text":"Okay, thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":1942,"text":"Councillor Cavins, I have a question about","speaker":"B"},{"t":1944,"text":"the health clinic use because clearly this has been an expectation since the building was approved. I'm just curious, why is it taking, why is it proving to be so difficult to find a health clinic to fill that space?","speaker":"G"},{"t":1959,"text":"And should council agree to this? Would that be any different in a year from now?","speaker":"G"},{"t":1966,"text":"When we started this, it was in 2019 and we had a plan that we can actually put the medical clinic in there.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1977,"text":"And during past six years, we basically changed two brokers, very well known brokers in Victoria and Vancouver island. And we talked to a lot of clinic owners, very famous ones that we always use or go as a patient.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1995,"text":"Right.","speaker":"K"},{"t":1995,"text":"And one very important concern, or I would say hurdle, that they had first carrying costs for 4,000 square feet was a lot more than what they thought our original covenant was roughly in terms of monetary value shy of half a million dollar.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2015,"text":"So we were starting from zero lease on first year and going all the way to 100% lease payable on 10th year.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2025,"text":"The question and the concern that they had and with the system and governmental system that they had was that, yeah, first year is free, second year starts at 40% and goes all the way to 100%.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2041,"text":"Medical clinic is not something that, you know, they can close tomorrow, go to another, another part of the city.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2050,"text":"And the problem that they had was even if you're getting 0% now in year five, it's going to be 65% or something like that. Right. So we had to change what we were offering.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2066,"text":"So part of our offer, original Covenant, it was $160,000 in tenant improvement, payable every year over 10 years.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2075,"text":"And after all these conversations over four years, we found out that the initial investments that clinic needs to pay up is at the first, like all the medical equipment and stuff like that.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2090,"text":"So 4,000 square feet, it was very hard for them to fill in back then. Talk about two, three years ago. So when we face all these questions, we changed the entire offering that we had.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2106,"text":"And based on the covenant, we were supposed to have the walls up and some electrical and mechanical roughens and tenant improvement itself, it was a lot of upfront cost. So we changed the entire our offering.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2123,"text":"We went out, advertised it as a turnkey space. We had to spend and absorb all these upfront costs and pay up. Also fixturing allowance and offer free 10 year lease.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2137,"text":"Our initial offer was not free 10 year lease, it was only first year free. So in terms of monetary, this doubled up our Contribution over two times of what we were offering at the beginning.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2153,"text":"Very good news that I received after Friday that the clinic was opened. Terranova is very interested on taking up another 1,000 square feet that will provide another five rooms. That means another five nurse practitioners.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2169,"text":"Nothing is written, nothing is agreed upon yet, but that will bring 11 family doctors. So to answer the question in a very simple way was that the original covenant was not enough to absorb these, these clinic owners.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2186,"text":"So we had to go beyond what we were offering to absorb them in terms of this unit. Is Strata Lot 68 the space up for advertisement? We changed two different brokerage.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2201,"text":"We thought that probably one of them is not performing well so we had to change it and same thing is happening. So business environment is different and we're trying to absorb more other businesses in their health related.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2218,"text":"And the Avenir concept came up and we said we're going to propose if this space is not like we have someone coming in tomorrow or in six months or eight months, whoever, any business owner from pharmacy to any kind of health related, they want to make a decision today, they'll be able to move in in six or eight months.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2246,"text":"And in terms of renovations and tenant improvements that we did, everything is part of the base building and we only did the flooring and fresh paint and that's about it.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2262,"text":"So I guess my question was more what was being proposed tonight is a one year change variance and then if I understand correct and staff might want to jump in on this, it would have to revert back to a health clinic space after a year.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2275,"text":"I'm seeing nods on that. I guess my question is what's going to be different in a year?","speaker":"G"},{"t":2281,"text":"If you've been unable to find someone now to meet the terms of the zone, how is that going to be any different in a year? If we allow the space to be used for another use in the interim,","speaker":"G"},{"t":2294,"text":"it might not make any difference if the space is going to sit empty today, it might sit empty eight months from now.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2303,"text":"And as you can see all Those there are two units on the upper floor entirely 2000 square feet originally we built the one on the other bottom of the page it has five rooms.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2316,"text":"That was the space that it got offered to Aroga and we went forward ahead with them but it didn't work out because that component that we talked about, zero lease for 10 years, it wasn't there.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2331,"text":"So Terranova is interested in taking over that south portion of the commercial. That's unit 102 if I'm not mistaken. But strata lot 68 it's still empty. And we are actively working to observe either pharmacy or something like that.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2346,"text":"Whether it's going to be filled in tomorrow or it's going to sit empty eight months, that's we haven't received anything for it. I'll put it that way.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2358,"text":"Thank you,","speaker":"G"},{"t":2360,"text":"Councillor Boardman. Thank you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2363,"text":"I'm going to ask you to go back to this previous slide, the parking one again, and I apologize to everybody listening. Could I have another parking clarification, please? So, Thank you.","speaker":"C"},{"t":2378,"text":"So when I see two staff parking spaces, I understand those, the 10 visitor parking spaces, just to clarify, five of those are the EV charging stations and five are residential.","speaker":"C"},{"t":2392,"text":"That should be five.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2394,"text":"Okay, so the people coming to see the horizon will park. If they bring their EV vehicle, they can park and charge or they'll park in a visitor parking stall and they won't impact the clinic.","speaker":"C"},{"t":2407,"text":"It won't either it's Horizon or the fact that those EV chargers, they're for public. So whoever, without even needing to visit the building, they can just drive in and park.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2419,"text":"So technically there aren't 10 spots available for people to come and go to.","speaker":"C"},{"t":2423,"text":"This five of them is residential. It's behind this another gate. But five of them are EV dash, public, visitor. And at night it goes to back. It goes back to residential after 6 o'.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2435,"text":"Clock. Okay, so then this slide isn't technically right, it should be 2 and 5 EV, slash visitor. Okay, thank you for that clarification.","speaker":"C"},{"t":2445,"text":"And then my other question is if this variance is not supported this evening, have you looked at any other places locally for your business?","speaker":"C"},{"t":2456,"text":"Just one.","speaker":"J"},{"t":2458,"text":"Okay. But there are spaces available in the community.","speaker":"C"},{"t":2461,"text":"No.","speaker":"J"},{"t":2462,"text":"Okay, thank you.","speaker":"C"},{"t":2467,"text":"Just to follow up on that, we received an email from a residential suggesting that Avenir has a building at this end of town. And why aren't, why isn't that available? I'm wondering if you can give us. Sure.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2485,"text":"We sold that building.","speaker":"J"},{"t":2487,"text":"Thank you.","speaker":"E"},{"t":2489,"text":"Okay. Are there further questions?","speaker":"B"},{"t":2491,"text":"Councillor Morrison, back to my earlier question to staff around. Because you talk about how Terra Nova wants to be on the main level for an expansion and my question was originally like so.","speaker":"A"},{"t":2503,"text":"And I understood your explanation around the challenges you had with the square footage, but why was the clinic put in the basement and not accessible at ground visible at ground floor? At what point did that decision make?","speaker":"A"},{"t":2518,"text":"That was part of the same conversation that we wanted to actually be able to offer 10 years free lease, and that wasn't part of the negotiations that we had with Terranova, but when they were going to actually get this same the offer that we had, it was unit 102, right.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2538,"text":"That was the five rooms on the upper floor. But then they chose to go down and get instead of 1000, get to 2000 and instead of getting the incremental incentive for lease, they asked for 10 year free lease.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2554,"text":"So it was, it was probably the business decision that was made.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2558,"text":"So if things do work out with what you're hearing from Terra Nova, they want to expand to be, to be at the main level as well, then that could easily be connected with the basement or would they still be separated?","speaker":"A"},{"t":2572,"text":"Exactly.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2572,"text":"No, it is connected. And one of the reasons that they want to actually come forward with this unit as well, you see that there's a set of staircase within the commercial that's for the benefit of commercial only.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2587,"text":"So basically the unit below is right under these two units and that staircase is connecting both units together.","speaker":"K"},{"t":2595,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"D"},{"t":2596,"text":"And I just had a question for staff as well around the temporary use, just to be a little more clear. So as we understand it, the lease is temporary until the Avenue building will be completed.","speaker":"A"},{"t":2610,"text":"If for whatever reason, as I hinted at earlier, because it's not unusual to have construction delays, if the new building is not ready by the time that this temporary use would expire, would then they have to come back to the council at that time and say we want an extension or would they have to vacate and they'd have to be actively looking for a health usage for that space at that time through your","speaker":"A"},{"t":2641,"text":"worship of council at this point the draft covenant states a tenure of one year. It's up to council to modify that. If that's your, that's your decision.","speaker":"I"},{"t":2651,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"D"},{"t":2651,"text":"Right now it's stated as of one year. So anything beyond one year would be not conforming to the covenant.","speaker":"I"},{"t":2658,"text":"They would have to vacate in one year, regardless of whether they finish their building or not.","speaker":"A"},{"t":2663,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"L"},{"t":2663,"text":"And at that point would have to revert back to a medical use or health use tenant. Okay, thank you,","speaker":"A"},{"t":2673,"text":"Councillor Cabins.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2674,"text":"This is a question for staff as well, and I think I know the answer. But when we negotiate these kind of amenities, we always hear that this is them freely negotiating and offering.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2686,"text":"We don't, we don't have requirements, we negotiations. So in your recollection, this was an offer made by the developer in exchange for the density or in that density discussions that were happening back in 2019?","speaker":"G"},{"t":2700,"text":"I guess through the worship of the council. That's correct. It was not a decision by staff.","speaker":"I"},{"t":2711,"text":"Any further questions for the proponent or staff? Staff, I just have a question around the medical space and what Other options beside a physician's office or nurse practitioner's office would fit within the definition.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2734,"text":"For example, does physiotherapy, chiropractic, hearing lab. Any of the all of those fit within the definition","speaker":"B"},{"t":2748,"text":"within the covenants","speaker":"I"},{"t":2753,"text":"speaks of allied.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2754,"text":"Sorry, I'm just looking to the side while speaking beyond nurse practitioners and nurses says if other professionals associated with the provision of health services may work in the clinic including but not limited to medical specialists who are registered with and licensed by the College of Physicians and Surgeons, British Columbia.","speaker":"I"},{"t":2774,"text":"Naturopaths, dentists, chiropractors, optometrists and physiotherapists.","speaker":"I"},{"t":2777,"text":"Thank you. Okay, Council, you may sit down. Thank you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2789,"text":"Thank you.","speaker":"C"},{"t":2791,"text":"You have a recommendation before you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2811,"text":"Do you want discussion? Do you want to start a motion?","speaker":"G"},{"t":2813,"text":"I need the motion on the floor for discussion.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2816,"text":"Okay. Well, I'm going to move that we deny the variance permit.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2820,"text":"Okay. Is there a seconder for that?","speaker":"B"},{"t":2824,"text":"I will second. I'll maintain an open mind, but I'll second for discussion.","speaker":"A"},{"t":2828,"text":"Yes.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2829,"text":"Okay. Councillor Cavins.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2832,"text":"Yeah, I'm really torn on this one because I think it's really important that we separate the variance permit and the zoning that was approved from the new use that's being proposed because this is not at all a commentary on the avenir use for promoting the seniors facility.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2852,"text":"I think that's a completely separate issue and I think that that would be a great space from a community perspective being down the street.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2862,"text":"I'm really hesitant to amend the zoning when that was the clear and this predates my time considerably on council and trying to look back to what the council at the time was trying to do by agreeing to a height.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2879,"text":"We all know this is a very controversial building at the time there was an agreement that was made that in exchange for a health facility in the broadest terms that additional density was granted.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2893,"text":"The zoning by was pretty explicit when I read it. It says the amount of space required and as we just heard it could allow things for dentist office naturopath a whole wide, wide range of things.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2908,"text":"So it's quite expansive. And so I'm concerned that we're not that the space as designed or for whatever reason is not being proving to be attractive and without.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2920,"text":"It's not my job to get into the leasing agreements but that's kind of the owner's responsibility to figure out how to make this attractive to to a space this new dentist office have just gone into.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2935,"text":"Vic west just leased up a new building so there is demand. When I heard dentists gone into Vic west well, just that there's demand for.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2945,"text":"I wanted you to advertise next door, not request.","speaker":"B"},{"t":2948,"text":"Sorry, Esquimo.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2949,"text":"Beast.","speaker":"I"},{"t":2952,"text":"So, to me this is a commercial discussion and a commercial decision that the owner has to do because they made a commitment to, to put a health clinic in there.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2963,"text":"And if that involves lowering the lease expectations, that's the commitment they made back in 2019. So I'm very. I'm just concerned with the precedent of this, considering how controversial this was in the neighborhood.","speaker":"G"},{"t":2976,"text":"Councillor Morrison, do you wish to speak?","speaker":"B"},{"t":2979,"text":"I think Councillor Cavan summed it up very well in that my take on this as well is that I don't want to compare it to a while back we had a similar type of scenario where the same proponent came forward with a request to change the height of the building or the number of stories or what have you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":2999,"text":"And I said at the time that, you know, this is sort of, we're changing the rules after the fact, after the rezoning.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3007,"text":"And as Councillor Cavan said, it was a very extensive, very robust rezoning with a lot of public involvement. And this is where council landed with these very clear parameters, very clear requirements.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3019,"text":"And now I feel like we're changing it after the fact, just as we were asked to do.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3025,"text":"On the other aspect of that, if that were any kind of a precedent in terms of what council's previous consideration was on a request after the fact, I will note that we did deny that request and I think that was the right decision.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3040,"text":"Just from a practical perspective, this means, if we were to approve this, that we have one full year where a potential medical use or health use would be prevented from being able to use that space because it's now going to be occupied for a non medical use.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3057,"text":"And you know, as Councillor Kelsey said, we don't know what opportunity might come this way, but we don't want to prevent those opportunities from happening because of the fact that the space is not available until this other use is completed in a year.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3072,"text":"So it does feel a bit confining in that sense.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3076,"text":"If the overall goal is to have that leased and used as medical or health usage, I think we might be hampering that goal by a whole extra year when there's already been a very long delay in trying to get something in there.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3091,"text":"So thank you, Councilor Boardman.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3095,"text":"Thank you. I won't repeat what my colleagues have said about the principle and the precedent setting. We did have an agreement on that covenant and so I feel that we should stick with that.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3106,"text":"I am very proud that there's a clinic that's managed to go in there. We've been talking about this for years and I think it'll be a great benefit to our community. However, we need to retain those health professionals.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3119,"text":"And if, if they can't come, if the patients can't come, they don't want to come because it's not accessible or they can't find parking, I really worry about that.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3128,"text":"And on the other hand, you know, I do support this because when the suite upstairs, which doesn't require too many alterations, is potentially going to be left empty anyway, why not fill it and have some life and have some support for the building down the road that needs it?","speaker":"C"},{"t":3145,"text":"So I'm a little bit torn about how I want to vote on this one. I see both sides, sides of the matter.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3155,"text":"Thank you. I was around at the beginning and I was around when we lost our second last clinic and I met with Island Health to understand what would be our needs.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3172,"text":"And at the time Island Health was rolling out the urgent and primary care centers when we sat down and we must have had, I don't know, 10 meetings around, what do we need?","speaker":"B"},{"t":3191,"text":"Because if we're going to go this route to try and put this as density bonusing opportunity to see if we can encourage developers to help provide us with space, then we need to have an understanding of the parameters.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3212,"text":"And Island Health told us you need 4,000 square feet.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3218,"text":"Six months, maybe a year later, Island Health put an urgent and primary care center across the road, which made it redundant to have 4,000 square feet for such a facility.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3235,"text":"Now, that's not saying that this isn't important medical space. It is.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3241,"text":"But I'm concerned that it has been a significant struggle to fill already and that I'm not as fussed about a change that is very temporary given there is already another space that could be filled in.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3261,"text":"And ultimately the parking is going to be shared by all commercial space. But I'm really glad to hear that there is dedicated space to the medical clinic. And I'm not sure that this should require two dedicated spaces.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3282,"text":"But I know that there are two sides to business and one is that it's important to fill spaces as well to get revenue so that you can offer incentive maybe to the next medical clinic that needs to come in.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3304,"text":"And we know that Terra Nova required significant incentive and we know Councilor Boardman and I have sat in on many meetings with others like Aroga Group where they are all looking for incentive because it is the leasehold and the space that limits their ability to set up new clinics.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3332,"text":"And so part of that is you're seeing a number of various models out there where you have not for profit model, which means the municipality and others would have to contribute significantly.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3350,"text":"You have the Callwood model, where they have literally made that a service of the community. We're all struggling to find. How can we make sure that we have medical services in our community?","speaker":"B"},{"t":3368,"text":"And I guess I'm speaking on both sides here, but I'm not convinced that a temporary permit for one year for this space will reduce our opportunities and that I'm not convinced that it will stop medical facilities from coming in there.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3391,"text":"I would really be challenged if the ask was I want to take away the medical covenant. But this is a temporary situation. So I'm looking to hear more from other councillors. Councillor Morrison, thank you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3411,"text":"So we have quite a mix of perspectives and they're all very sound and valid arguments.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3416,"text":"And I'm thinking that this could be a scenario where we end up with a split vote and we know in a tie, nothing passes. It's very awkward. We only have four members present.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3428,"text":"Understanding that Councillor Armour has resigned, but we still have two other council members that could provide their perspectives as well. I think that would be equally valid and valued.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3439,"text":"So I'm wondering if it might be prudent to just postpone this and tell our next meeting is next week. Is that correct? I believe we have a meeting next week. Yeah.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3450,"text":"If we're planning to have our full council in attendance next week, that I would. I would suggest that we postpone this until.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3458,"text":"Are you moving to postpone?","speaker":"B"},{"t":3460,"text":"Moving to postpone, yes. Thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3462,"text":"Okay. Is there a seconder for that postponement? Thank you. All right. And there is discussion on postponement to allow other members of.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3479,"text":"Yeah. So next week or postponed to next","speaker":"A"},{"t":3484,"text":"week's meeting, which is the 21st. Okay.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3488,"text":"Anticipating that we'll have full attendance.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3491,"text":"We're hopeful.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3493,"text":"And I'm just saying that I appreciate maybe the chance to think about it for a week and to hear our other perspectives, because I'm also on two sides on this.","speaker":"G"},{"t":3501,"text":"It's not a big deal to the use and the change, but I. I still feel like there was a commitment made to the community and I think that's one thing.","speaker":"G"},{"t":3509,"text":"And I'd like to hear more from the community over the week. So the week would help me. And I'd also hearing from others who were there at the time when this was passed. So.","speaker":"G"},{"t":3519,"text":"Okay. Any further discussion? Seeing none. All those in favor of motion to postpone? Okay. Motion is carried. Thank you. We move down to 500 Park Place North. Options analysis. I'll let you get to your seat, Ms. Finnegan.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3542,"text":"I'm good.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3544,"text":"We all good?","speaker":"B"},{"t":3545,"text":"Good evening, Mayor and Council. Thank you. The report before you. I'll just give you a quick overview of the report. Taking the report and the appendixes as.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3557,"text":"Read the report before you presents the findings of the land use and development Options analysis for 500 Park Place North. This is an important and highly visible municipal property in the heart of Esquimalt.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3572,"text":"Once construction of the new fire hall is complete, the northern portion of the site is expected to become available in March, April 2027. The attached report put forward by the consultant examined five potential concepts.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3587,"text":"A boutique hotel, mixed use residential development, affordable housing with commercial space, a higher density residential tower and a community amenity and commercial hub. Each option offers potential benefits.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3599,"text":"These include increasing housing supply, supporting local businesses and tourism, providing community amenities, contributing to town centre vitality and generating a financial return. Each option also comes with different financial, regulatory, partnership and community considerations.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3614,"text":"The analysis does not recommend a preferred development concept at this stage. Staff believe it would be premature to select one.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3623,"text":"Further work would be needed to understand market demand, financial feasibility, partnership opportunities and how the property fits within the township's broader approach to managing its landing facilities. Staff are therefore recommending a two track approach.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3638,"text":"If council would like, we could return before the 2027 budget process with temporary place making opportunities for the site. These could include gathering space, a public art, markets, events or flexible recreational uses.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3652,"text":"The report back would include costs, operating requirements, implementation options and potential grant or partnership funding.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3659,"text":"Second, the second track, the permanent future 500 Park Place north would be included as a potential project for consideration during development of the next Council Priorities plan.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3671,"text":"This would allow council to consider the property alongside the forthcoming Real Property Strategy report which is coming next week, and other municipal priorities.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3681,"text":"The recommendation keeps future development options open while giving council an opportunity to consider how this prominent site might contribute to the community in the interim. Happy to answer any questions.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3695,"text":"Thank you. Are there questions? Go ahead, Councillor.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3698,"text":"I think we'd be remiss if we.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3708,"text":"Speak and then plug.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3711,"text":"I'm not used to sitting here, sorry.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3714,"text":"I think we'd be remiss if we didn't bring up the fact that the original plan was that of course we were going to have fire is where it's going to be in the southern portion facing Carlisle and then have police of course on the northern portion facing Esquimault Road.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3734,"text":"And of course we know now that we were only able to do half of our Original public safety project. So my question would be where.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3744,"text":"Why not have policing included in some of these scenarios, like the affordable housing, commercial space. Could the commercial space be potentially policing the residential tower and commercial space? Same thing.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3756,"text":"The community amenity commercial hub, could that include a police station aspect to it? And then what was the first option anyway? Yeah, all those. Pretty much every option would you could think could also include police.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3771,"text":"Is that also a possibility under all these scenarios? Or is any of the scenarios, would. Would that be prevented? Thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3780,"text":"Through the mayor and council, all of those options are available. I think what we got out of the report from the consultant is there's any variation of any mix that we could put there.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3791,"text":"What we're bringing forward next week, which is a report on the real property function.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3796,"text":"So that report will start outlining a framework and a strategy where we could better answer how we make these decisions for land, our facilities and how we manage our future needs.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3807,"text":"So where the police lands up being reconsidered for that lot. Again, that would be part of the next bit of an analysis.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3815,"text":"Thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3818,"text":"Other questions?","speaker":"B"},{"t":3821,"text":"Councillor Cavan, I have a question and just that if.","speaker":"G"},{"t":3824,"text":"When we're talking about the temporary place making, which I think is great, and I like the recommendation that we consider it, I also just wanted to know if that would include the other option of considering the use of that space as a temporary parking space as well, just because of the ongoing discussions around businesses.","speaker":"G"},{"t":3842,"text":"I just want to. I guess what I'm asking is, should that be part of an amendment to the motion or would that be understood as one of the options?","speaker":"G"},{"t":3852,"text":"It's kind of a default and I'm just kind of curious if I need to make that. I think that needs to be considered as well. When we're talking about place making and other options.","speaker":"G"},{"t":3864,"text":"I think that through the mayor, that option was actually suggested earlier tonight by a resident. Maybe a bit tongue in cheek, but certainly a serious one. I think any.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3873,"text":"Any option for that land will be taken into consideration, will be put on the table. How the parking would work, how that would interface with the fire hall.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3883,"text":"That's certainly something we can consider whether we would want a motion or not.","speaker":"M"},{"t":3887,"text":"I'll leave that to Mr. Arran.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3890,"text":"No, I'll just jump in and say that the whole. The whole. The goal behind that proposed resolution is just that you are going to direct staff to come back with an options analysis. And then if that.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3901,"text":"If the options analysis itself doesn't meet your needs, then we can keep doing more. But you've been quite clear that you want to talk about this, plus those other ideas and that'll be incorporated in the.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3911,"text":"In the task, if that's what council desire.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3914,"text":"Yeah. Just to be clear, I just would like it as one of the. One of the options in there as just because I think it's a. It's a baseline that we should compare against.","speaker":"G"},{"t":3922,"text":"Councillor Boardman,","speaker":"B"},{"t":3925,"text":"I'm happy to move the recommendation.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3928,"text":"Is there a seconder?","speaker":"B"},{"t":3929,"text":"Yep.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3930,"text":"Thank you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3930,"text":"Want me to read it out?","speaker":"C"},{"t":3932,"text":"No, I don't think we need to read the whole thing out. I'll look to Ms. Hopkins. No, it's not a.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3938,"text":"It's not.","speaker":"D"},{"t":3938,"text":"Viola.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3939,"text":"I think this is a very thorough report and I think that both of those recommendations are appropriate given the election coming up and the new group of people that are going to want to talk these through and add them to their priorities.","speaker":"C"},{"t":3954,"text":"So I support that.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3956,"text":"Thank you, Councillor Cavins.","speaker":"B"},{"t":3958,"text":"Yes, likewise. It's a great report. Thank you very much to staff. And also if anyone in the audience or online, the consultant report is also really interesting as well to look at, so it's worth looking.","speaker":"G"},{"t":3970,"text":"Councillor Morrison,","speaker":"B"},{"t":3973,"text":"just had a question for staff. Follow up. I have used the food trucks at the Carlton Club parking. Former Carlton Club parking lot.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3982,"text":"Seems like a pretty creative use for that parking area that's no longer required because the club's no longer there.","speaker":"A"},{"t":3990,"text":"Is that something that the consultant looked at or you looked at in terms of having maybe some food truck as the community place making aspects that you","speaker":"A"},{"t":4001,"text":"talked about through the chair? It wasn't something that the consultant included in their report because it wasn't in the scope for them.","speaker":"M"},{"t":4009,"text":"It's certainly something that we, as the Activ team and the Strategic Initiative team, we look at that option fairly regularly.","speaker":"M"},{"t":4017,"text":"I've spoken to various other landowners in esquamalt looking for spaces for food trucks or temporary to permanent homes for future food vendors. So we all love our food in Esquimaut and we've got to make sure they're housed.","speaker":"M"},{"t":4031,"text":"So it'll definitely be included in the temporary placemaking options.","speaker":"M"},{"t":4037,"text":"I'm certainly supportive of the motion. The only question or comment I want to make is that when we purchase the that land, it had been commercial space and all I have to do is say donaire shop.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4054,"text":"And everybody in esquimalt remembers that space, but there were several other businesses in there as well.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4062,"text":"There was also, in my recollection, and Councillor Morrison always has a little bit of a sharper mind on some of these memories, that there would be an acknowledgement to the Chinese business community for whatever goes up.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4080,"text":"And I believe it was in the form of a plaque that's in the future. But I just wanted to make sure it came to light again. But it will be interesting to see what comes up.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4097,"text":"I think there's significant opportunity there to add vibrancy to the street that already has vibrancy.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4105,"text":"When you look at restaurant on one side, pub on the other side, and then Syria and a little further along, food places, the idea of what else can bring people to that area to support those businesses as well.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4123,"text":"So I will be following from the sideline, but I support this motion. I will call the question. All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Motions carried. Thank you. Thank you very much for the report.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4141,"text":"It's very thorough and the consultants information was fascinating too. Okay. Climate action report.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4150,"text":"Mr. Brown, you worship Members of council happy to present the 2025 Climate Action Report. It'll be presented by Jacob and Hank and I don't think council's met Hank yet. So Hank Hsu is our new planning technician.","speaker":"H"},{"t":4167,"text":"He's been with us for a few months now. Graduated of Langara College Planning Program and he's been extremely helpful and he brings a set of skills and great attitude that is really helping our team to achieve stuff.","speaker":"H"},{"t":4185,"text":"So both these gentlemen will do a team presentation tonight on the Climate Action Plan.","speaker":"H"},{"t":4192,"text":"Great. Well welcome Hank and go for it, both of you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4202,"text":"Good evening. I'll talk the progress we've made in 2025 in terms of climate action here in Esquimalt. This is an ongoing issue. 2025 was the third hottest year in the world.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4217,"text":"The last 11 years were the warmest on record. Not a fluke. I'll just introduce what we're going to talk about here.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4227,"text":"Recent climate action achievements, greenhouse gas emissions and how that's changed and opportunities for further climate action and adaptation. Just a brief introduction on our policies and plans. We've been a BC Climate Charter member since 2008.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4244,"text":"The climate targets set in the 2018 Official Community Plan include reducing community greenhouse gas emissions by 38% in 2030 compared to 2007 levels and net zero community emissions by 2050.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4259,"text":"And there are images of the three major the climate Action Plan, the Community Mitigation Plan and the Adaptation Planning Guide. Now I'm going to talk about corporate progress. We're going to divide this into two, two parts.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4276,"text":"Hank is going to talk about community greenhouse gas emissions and I'm going to talk about how the corporation the township of Esquimalt is doing.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4288,"text":"And these are the last four years There has been a slight reduction in buildings emissions and in fact, a 21% reduction in fleet emissions.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4300,"text":"So we've seen more progress in vehicle emissions with the uptake of, for example, electric pickup trucks and hybrid vehicles that we've purchased and also charging stations.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4312,"text":"Now, in the report, I did mention that from 2010 to 2030, we have a 45% reduction target and we've achieved a 25% reduction from 2010 levels.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4325,"text":"So we're not really on track to meet that 45% reduction target because we have three years, rather five years to achieve that. But there's been some good progress made since 2010.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4340,"text":"I'm going to dig in a little bit more to the building emissions. These three buildings, the Archie Brown Sports center, temporary fire hall and the recreation center, account for 93% of building emissions in Esquimault.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4357,"text":"So we do have other buildings, but the vast majority of the missions are from these three. And you can see we are making great progress, especially at the recreation center.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4371,"text":"And that reduction came from the installation of electric boilers in 2023. And you can see that progress that's just accumulated quite significantly in the arching Brown Sports Center.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4385,"text":"In 2024, we installed an electric dehumidification system, and you can see the results of that. And we've made further progress in 2025 with some LED lighting. So with that, I will pass it on to Hank.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4405,"text":"Good evening, Mayor and council. Onto the community greenhouse gas emissions.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4411,"text":"This figure essentially just shows that the community emissions that ESQUIMO is reducing at a faster rate compared to the entirety of the CRD Squamo has 25% reduction from 2007 to 2024, and the CRD has a roughly 11% reduction.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4433,"text":"Next, slide this figure again. It basically just shows that building and transportation emissions make up a majority, I think, almost 90% of the community GHG emissions.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4451,"text":"Next, just before you go on, what is process use?","speaker":"B"},{"t":4455,"text":"Process use refers to like chemical or industrial processes. But then you can also just plump it into things like air conditioning and refrigeration and stuff like that.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4471,"text":"Okay, so figure five to break it down even more residential building emissions have gone down significantly, following up with passenger vehicle emissions.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4484,"text":"Again, Jacob, as mentioned earlier, this can be attributed to the introduction of electric heat pumps in homes, reduce fuel and natural gas as well.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4498,"text":"In terms of the passenger vehicle reduction, that can be attributed to more EV or electric vehicle purchasing, as well as more active transportation, biking, walking and scooters, stuff like that.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4516,"text":"And then the other buildings emissions has gone up because of commercial industrial use that is attributed to the increase of natural gas and diesel fuel usage by those sectors.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4533,"text":"And then some of the notable initiatives that the township has implemented in 2025. The first one being the active transportation network plan.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4546,"text":"The second being the electrification of corporate buildings, the purchase of electric vehicles and equipment by parks and engineering, as well as a new parking bylaw that was implemented.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4562,"text":"Things such as the frequent transit area parking reductions, bike parking, transportation demand management and reduced parking in affordable housing units. Just to give a few examples. Any questions for us?","speaker":"L"},{"t":4581,"text":"Questions for staff. Councillor Boardman,","speaker":"B"},{"t":4589,"text":"Question on slide 9 about community emissions. So my, my question is how do you measure the community, for example, passenger vehicle emission reductions. Do you count what kind of car I buy or how does that work?","speaker":"C"},{"t":4607,"text":"These calculations are made by the crd, the Capital Regional District. They produce a report every two years that summarizes the estimated emissions and that's based largely on vehicles purchased or the number of vehicles that are in Esquire Mount.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4628,"text":"So it does include travel outside of Esquimalt, but it's based on vehicles that are registered to Esquimault residence.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4639,"text":"Oh, okay.","speaker":"C"},{"t":4640,"text":"So if they're commuting somewhere else, that's counted part of.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4643,"text":"So they can tell by whatever data source they use that at my house somebody has an electric vehicle. Correct. Okay, wow, that's interesting. Thank you.","speaker":"C"},{"t":4653,"text":"Other questions.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4654,"text":"Councillor Morrison, just curious, like for recreational facilities, like the amount of operation, hours of operation, the amount of usage, that actually would, that would probably, I'm guessing the more you operate, the longer you operate, the more energy you would use.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4671,"text":"So for example, if we were just to say, look at what 2026 would be with the ice not being in play and being delayed, unfortunately, while they do the necessary infrastructure work there, does that mean like when we see 2026.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4688,"text":"Archie Browning it should be significantly down and so do we account for those sort of non operational unintended reductions? I guess you could say","speaker":"A"},{"t":4700,"text":"we do not account for those aberrations. For example, we didn't even collect data during COVID It doesn't account for things like warm winters which would reduce the need for natural gas.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4712,"text":"So there are all sorts of things in play that we don't see through the data.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4718,"text":"But what we can report in the actual report and say this is one of the reasons we're seeing reductions is because the exact reason that you gave, for example, it just wasn't operational part of it the time.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4734,"text":"And I guess that's a bit of the challenge with township's climate. We have very high standard service levels.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4741,"text":"Other municipalities do not operate their recreational facilities anywhere close to what we do and just in things of like weekends and stat holidays and whatnot. We're always 5:30 to 10:30 every day.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4754,"text":"We're even open for a bit on Christmas which is almost unheard of anywhere else.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4759,"text":"So we always want to account the fact that we are using a lot of energy, but it's also because we also have very robust level of services standards that comparableness values may not be the same for us.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4774,"text":"Is it a fair statement?","speaker":"A"},{"t":4778,"text":"Yes.","speaker":"L"},{"t":4779,"text":"And also people from other communities nevertheless the most reduction in emissions compared to any other municipality in the region. So great achievements that we're having here.","speaker":"N"},{"t":4798,"text":"Councillor Cavins, I'm going to move the","speaker":"B"},{"t":4801,"text":"staff recommendations which is that we receive the report and that we mark the that we the council priority related to the development of an action plan to reduce corporate greenhouse gas emissions be marked as complete in the 2023-2016 council priority.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4818,"text":"Second thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4819,"text":"Do you want to speak to it?","speaker":"B"},{"t":4820,"text":"I do. I just want to say how excited I am to receive this and I think it's great that we're receiving this on a yearly basis and I think I'll start with positive.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4831,"text":"There's something I think we need to think about for later on.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4834,"text":"This is great that we're doing it and as someone who has worked as a climate modeling consultant, I'm very excited by the fact that staff have pulled this in house and don't find it necessary to spend money on the consultant.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4847,"text":"I think that's one of my things that I really think is important for local governments is to start taking ownership of this and bring it internally.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4856,"text":"And so I really appreciate seeing that not just on not spending the $30,000 but also the fact that you've built the capacity internally.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4863,"text":"And I think it's really great seeing the consistent, you know, squamalt we're moving forward slowly but surely.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4868,"text":"We're not making big pronouncements but we're moving ahead and I think that's actually more consistent in terms of how you actually achieve change over time. So I'm very excited to see that.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4879,"text":"The only thing I wanted to just flag is when we're going to be start talking about future uses for the temporary fire hall.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4886,"text":"When you look at the numbers of the energy use on those fire halls, those temporary bays are really attractive.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4892,"text":"But I'm 99% sure that's what all that they're not insulated and that's what all of those energy is being used for.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4899,"text":"So they're not the greatest buildings in the long term, if we want to look about it both from a cost perspective in terms of natural gas, but also from emissions.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4909,"text":"So just as we start thinking all these great ideas of what we can use those bays for, there is a cost to that as well. And I think that's reflected. Seeing a building that's very close to.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4921,"text":"A","speaker":"D"},{"t":4924,"text":"very, very close to Archie Browning is surprising because everyone knows in the industry at least, that recreation centers, pools and arenas are the two number one things.","speaker":"G"},{"t":4932,"text":"And when you have a fire hall that's getting close to it, that's a bit worrisome. So just wanted to flag that. But otherwise great work and thank you","speaker":"G"},{"t":4939,"text":"very much, Councillor Morrison.","speaker":"B"},{"t":4942,"text":"Yeah, I'll just. I think I'll say what I've said before about. I find it very perplexing that, you know, this mandate for us to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, we can't forget, came from our provincial government.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4955,"text":"And I say that because both the provincial and the federal government, senior levels of government, seem to no longer talk about the urgency of climate action and climate change and addressing it.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4967,"text":"It feels like it's, to borrow a phrase, an inconvenient truth that just no one wants to talk about at that level of government. But meanwhile, that doesn't mean that local government suddenly stop doing our work.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4979,"text":"We continue on, as this report said, making, and as Councillor Cavan said, making progress year by year.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4986,"text":"And I want our community to know that we are staying focused on that mandate regardless of what the provincial or federal governments want to talk about or not talk about anymore.","speaker":"A"},{"t":4996,"text":"We will continue to do our very important effort around reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. Thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5004,"text":"Any further discussion, I just want to add my thanks for the report and I think we should pat ourselves on our backs a little bit because we've reduced it by 25%.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5020,"text":"And what I heard you say, Jacob, is we're ahead of the rest of the crew. And that's not to rest on those laurels, but what we've done is we've taken some older buildings and improved them.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5038,"text":"And so I think there's. And our active transportation strategy has shown significant change. So I think there's a bit of cause for celebration and stick to it.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5053,"text":"Sorry, that was the other thing I wanted to add was under communication to your point, Mayor. There was just that we were going to post it to the website and maybe some people might see it.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5063,"text":"Probably most people won't. So I was going to suggest that we direct staff to also maybe go back.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5069,"text":"Well, before you do that, you're either going to add it as an amendment or you're going to make it a","speaker":"B"},{"t":5074,"text":"subsequent motion or just a request basically, or direction to staff to do a news release so that it can be recorded. As you said, it's important to record and distributed beyond our website.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5087,"text":"Okay. Staff heard the request. All right, we've got the motion.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5090,"text":"As long as we are agreeable with that, it's okay. You can do that.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5095,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"L"},{"t":5096,"text":"Just want to make sure. Okay, thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5098,"text":"All those any opposed? None opposed. Motions carried. We are at options analysis, Advisory Planning Commission structure and establishing bylaw. Mr. Brown.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5120,"text":"Your Worship, members of Council, you may recall that on February 9th of this year, Council met with the Advisory Planning Commission in a joint meeting to discuss some concerns.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5133,"text":"The Advisory Planning Commission had these concerns related to its relationship with council, the amount of work it was getting asked to do, its relationship with the Design Review Committee and concerns about how they were working with staff since that time.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5152,"text":"At that meeting, Council passed a motion that asked staff to review options for the Advisory Planning Commission and to come back to council with any options. Staff has done that in the legislation. There are very few alternative options.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5170,"text":"There is a standing committee, but a standing committee requires members of council to be on it.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5177,"text":"And like you could have the land use Standing Committee, but if you're looking at rezoning application and the council member votes at standing committee in favor of something, they have lost their ability to have an open mind at a public hearing.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5196,"text":"So that's a very dangerous position to put a council member in and it certainly could jeopardize the township of any decisions made, particularly with rezonings.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5208,"text":"So we looked at all kinds of different alternatives and determined that actually the current statutory ability to have an Advisory Planning Commission is in staff's opinion the best type of committee to have.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5223,"text":"We took our findings back to the Advisory Planning Commission and they agreed. They were happy that they're seeing changes. They're seeing staff bring back more detailed reports on council decisions.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5237,"text":"They're seeing a lot of projects coming up in the future, particularly the ocp, the Squalmont Road Urban Design guidelines, the fiscal analysis and short term rentals. Lots of different activities coming up for the APC to get involved in.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5255,"text":"So they were satisfied that there's been enough changes recently to assuage their concerns.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5261,"text":"And so they passed a motion recommending the council just keep the current applying commission structure in place and that staff be directed to continue to improve.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5275,"text":"Thank you. Are there questions for staff? If not, I would entertain a motion for the floor.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5281,"text":"I have questions. So I'm just concerned that that staff recommendation that alternative versions of this are not advisable when very few in the crd, at least other communities actually maintain.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5296,"text":"The Advisory Planning Commission, Sandish, Victoria, Langford, Colwood, all have committees such as you recommended. And so I'm just curious why they're getting different advice than we are and why that wasn't laid out.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5313,"text":"A little bit more structured in the report.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5320,"text":"So there are only a standing committee and a steering committee. Those are the only committee alternatives legally available to council, other municipalities. I don't know what advice they received. I'm not sure how they're doing it. There's insurance issues.","speaker":"H"},{"t":5340,"text":"If you have a committee that's not constituted under statutory guidelines,","speaker":"H"},{"t":5348,"text":"it.","speaker":"C"},{"t":5383,"text":"Just concerned that.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5411,"text":"Sorry. Because it was during the council break, both Councillor Brain and myself were away for that meeting, but I did watch the recording of the webcast and it seemed like.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5422,"text":"And I can also add to staff's view that, that since we made the changes and since council was pretty clear around the changes that need to be done quite quickly, the APC meetings are going much better.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5434,"text":"They're back to the way they were, as I called them, from years back when they would have staff updates and being very informed on what's going on with all the decisions or all the recommendations that they had made on various projects.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5449,"text":"So things are working much better from that communication aspect as well, which was, I think, a big concern with the apc.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5457,"text":"Okay, there is a recommendation in front of you,","speaker":"B"},{"t":5462,"text":"a question. So I mean, one of the options there, it says, like we did with the Park Place, we could just refer this on to the next council for their deliberation around priorities.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5474,"text":"And, and so I wouldn't want, whatever motion we pass, I wouldn't want to prevent the next council, whoever they are, to figure out their own governance for the next four years.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5484,"text":"So I'm almost wondering if maybe postponing is not the right way, but maybe we should just look at that other option that says, what do you have","speaker":"A"},{"t":5494,"text":"in front of you?","speaker":"L"},{"t":5494,"text":"That says, yeah, basically same thing we did with the Park Place, refer this to the next council for determining their priorities. And that would just mean the status quo would continue until such time. Am I understanding that correctly?","speaker":"A"},{"t":5506,"text":"I want to look to Mr. Horan or Ms. Hopkins with regard to that.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5514,"text":"Thank you, your Worship.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5515,"text":"Just the.","speaker":"I"},{"t":5516,"text":"The report does cover two options and","speaker":"A"},{"t":5517,"text":"of course there are more.","speaker":"D"},{"t":5518,"text":"The main one being the staff recommendation. But option two is that council just refers it to the next council to. If they want to look at as a Council priorities plan matter.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5529,"text":"So with no further changes or direction, the status quo would continue and then the next council has the option to","speaker":"A"},{"t":5535,"text":"pick it up and run with it","speaker":"D"},{"t":5536,"text":"if they so desire.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5537,"text":"Okay. I'm still waiting for a motion.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5541,"text":"I would like. So I would like to move the staff recommendation.","speaker":"C"},{"t":5546,"text":"The council support the Advisory Planning Commission recommendation that no changes to the advisory Planning commission structure or bylaw be made as outlined in staff report number DEV 26040.","speaker":"C"},{"t":5559,"text":"Thank you. Is there a seconder?","speaker":"B"},{"t":5565,"text":"I'll second, but I. I'll second. But as long as I can speak to it later. Thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5568,"text":"Thank you. Sure.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5572,"text":"I don't think this needs to be referred to the next council as the second option on the final page. I don't think it needs to be added to the priorities plan for next council to address.","speaker":"C"},{"t":5584,"text":"I think we've just addressed it and I think we've addressed it well and adequately. And the commission members seem happy. And if they're not happy in the future, it can come forward again separately. But I'm happy with this.","speaker":"C"},{"t":5597,"text":"Councillor Morrison.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5599,"text":"Yeah. So recognizing Councillor Boardman's comments. I agree.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5602,"text":"But I also agree with what I said earlier that I think this council can't prevent or even director provide some sort of direction for the next council about what to do with apc.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5614,"text":"I think what we're deciding is what we're going to do with our APC now for the remainder of our tenure.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5622,"text":"But this motion, the way I read this motion does not preclude in any way a next council coming in. And they don't need this other option motion to do this.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5633,"text":"Does not fetter Council.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5636,"text":"Yes.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5637,"text":"However, you are making a recomm recommendation that that can go forward.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5641,"text":"Yeah. And that that will go forward and such. Until I think Councillor Boardman said this. Until such time someone decides to want to do something different.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5648,"text":"And that may be right at the beginning of the next term with the new council. Okay.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5653,"text":"Thank you.","speaker":"N"},{"t":5654,"text":"Any further discussion.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5657,"text":"I'll just say that I wanted. I. I will support it.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5660,"text":"I just really would have wished the report to have been a little more thorough as to what was we were saying seeing so that we can feel like we're.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5668,"text":"We're seeing other municipalities so we can really understand what the options are. But I'm also very glad that the APC is. It seems like they're happy with what's. How things are going. I think that's.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5677,"text":"And we have a lot of things next time in the council priorities plan.","speaker":"G"},{"t":5682,"text":"I'm supportive of the motion and I'm Glad to hear that APC are feeling that they're.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5691,"text":"They.","speaker":"C"},{"t":5691,"text":"Their concerns were responded to and I believe in. In this approach for that reason of bias and concern of that Mr. Brown put forward. So I appreciate it. All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Motions carried.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5709,"text":"We are at proposed amendments. The environment, Parks and Recreational Advisory committee. Who's going to speak to this? Go ahead, Ms. Hopkins.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5720,"text":"Thank you, your worship. This is really a housekeeping amendment to bring our structure in alignment with the rest of our committees.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5728,"text":"And we're seeking the direction from council as we plan to initiate recruitment for the next round of volunteer members.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5737,"text":"Thank you. And council questions?","speaker":"B"},{"t":5741,"text":"Just a question, Ms. Hopkins. Was the EPREC committee consulted on the changes?","speaker":"G"},{"t":5750,"text":"I don't believe that the members themselves were consulted, but we did speak to staff.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5757,"text":"And really one of the oddities that happens in our current setup is if we have nine members, we have two who aren't at the dais and determining how. What that.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5771,"text":"How those members feel also was a consideration of how we should proceed.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5781,"text":"Go ahead.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5783,"text":"So I think we're being asked now, are we being asked just for clarification to select option one or option two? Is that where you'd like to hear from us today?","speaker":"C"},{"t":5791,"text":"That's correct. Okay. Staff recommended option one because we felt it left council with the greatest flexibility. But certainly council could seek, could give us any direction, including alternate. If that's what you would prefer.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5804,"text":"Sure.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5805,"text":"And a follow up question, if I may. Can you refresh my memory as to why we went to two youth members? I don't recall exactly.","speaker":"C"},{"t":5814,"text":"I think originally when the two committees. So we had the environment advisory committee and the Parks and Rec Advisory committee as two separate groups, we combined them and we didn't want to.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5825,"text":"Council didn't want to lose that youth voice. And we're hoping to have someone with a strong interest in. In climate and environment issues and one with a strong interest in parks and recreation.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5837,"text":"Okay, then I would support number one.","speaker":"C"},{"t":5841,"text":"Councilor Morrison, are you going to put recommendations?","speaker":"B"},{"t":5844,"text":"No, I was going to try and answer councilor Borman's question one a little bit further as well as the other aspect was recognizing that the committee is all adults and you were one lone youth member.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5855,"text":"It was thought that having two together would be a little bit more stronger in numbers and a little more supportive for them to be able to speak up in that sense.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5865,"text":"But I don't know, I'm kind of like, I feel like we're doing this because in order to fit the number of people for this table and I'M wondering why does it have to be this table if we end up, you know, if there's more we always get.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5879,"text":"Seem to have more interest in the Parks, Environment, Parks and Recreation Committee than we have seats available.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5885,"text":"And you know, I don't want to prevent us from having two members of the youth population because it says, only says that it has to have at least one. If I understand that it says up to two.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5896,"text":"So that could mean one. Just in relation to what we were just talking about, the value of having two. I just kind of wonder why do we have to have it so that it fits this table?","speaker":"A"},{"t":5908,"text":"Because why can't they just meet at a big round table?","speaker":"A"},{"t":5911,"text":"You know, we have tables available that we could give them better furniture where they could fit more people and just forget about the council table being the decision staff.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5920,"text":"Is this about the videoing of the meetings, etc.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5929,"text":"Your worship, we do have a static camera, so there isn't an ability to move it around. So there would be members whose back. You would only see the back of their heads, I suppose.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5941,"text":"But I would add that the Parks and Rec committee used to have seven members.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5946,"text":"And the reason we moved to nine members was because when we combined the two committees, we had nine members who were still willing to serve and we didn't want to turn any of those members away.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5958,"text":"So now that we've had two people who have moved out of Esquimalt, there's an opportunity to change that back to seven. We could look to doing things like changing the configuration of the meetings.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5969,"text":"It would be a strange experience for someone watching, seeing just the back of people's heads. But that is something to explore.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5979,"text":"Our meetings are webcast, though.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5982,"text":"Currently they are webcast. Yes.","speaker":"E"},{"t":5984,"text":"Okay.","speaker":"B"},{"t":5984,"text":"Sorry, could I just. Point of information. Is that a bylaw requirement of our committees or is that just a practice? I'll look to staff for council.","speaker":"A"},{"t":5992,"text":"Obviously we always want to be transparent and available to the public, but I don't know why our committees would have to be.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6002,"text":"Sorry, can you clarify the question?","speaker":"E"},{"t":6005,"text":"Is it a bylaw requirement that the committees have to be webcast the way council is, or is that just our","speaker":"A"},{"t":6013,"text":"practice that we do that through the, through the mayor? It is not a bylaw requirement. It's a transparency piece that staff added so that the public had more access to recommendations and council's decision making.","speaker":"E"},{"t":6027,"text":"So I, I will make the. I will move the recommendation, which is option one. Yeah. Okay.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6035,"text":"And I'll look for. For a seconder. Thank you. Okay.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6038,"text":"And so I. I just want to say the same thing I said about the Advisory Planning commission around.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6044,"text":"We can't foretell what the next council's, who they're going to be, what their priority is going to be, and that includes governance.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6052,"text":"And they might want to do a complete overhaul of their advisory committees, as Duncan, or sorry, Councillor Cavins referenced. There's all sorts of governance models all over, just within our region.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6063,"text":"But of course you can look across the province. There's all sorts of varieties available for us to look at or the next council to look at. So I want to.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6074,"text":"I'm in favor of this motion, but I don't want to prejudice any sort of future discussion around how we do governance as a municipality for the next council.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6084,"text":"Thank you. Thank you. And we've iterated that that that doesn't occur. So that's, that's good. Seconder.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6090,"text":"I don't have any further comments.","speaker":"C"},{"t":6092,"text":"Okay. Any further discussion, I will call the question. All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Motions carried. Enterprise Resource Planning Project. Who will speak to this? Mr. Irvin.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6106,"text":"Thank you, your worship. So in previous discussions, staff have brought the notion that the ERP or the Enterprise Resource Planning system that the township currently has is going to be sunsetted in April of 2029.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6118,"text":"Kind of preparing council for some asks in regards to financial requirements as well as potential staffing from a temporary basis, as well as consultants that may be brought in to move the project forward.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6131,"text":"Attached to this report is a backgrounder that staff have prepared. Kind of provide an outline to you and the public in regards to what the project is and requirements in that regard. It's divided into two phases.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6144,"text":"So the first phase is going to be primarily scoping.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6148,"text":"It's going to be identifying the needs of the municipality from finance as well as other departments that may also want something included in the system, taking us right through to the preparation of procurement documents.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6160,"text":"The second phase will actually be identifying a system and implementing it. And we're expecting probably within 12 to 24 month transition from start to finish. So that's what we're aiming for.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6172,"text":"We were originally planning on bringing something forward in 2027, but we know that there are a number of other municipalities and entities that are in the same boat as us.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6183,"text":"And so we wanted to take a more aggressive timeline to try and get ahead of the curve and avoid any potential conflicts with capacity. So that's why you're seeing it this evening.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6194,"text":"Staff have recommended using a portion of the funding from the accumulated surplus. If you recall, council asked staff to come back with potential options of the use of those funds.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6205,"text":"We think that this is an excellent need of those or an excellent resource to use those.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6211,"text":"So it's coming before that report's coming to council, but we think that it fits into the criteria and we'll avoid any new taxation requirements in order to fund any of the process now as well as the implementation going forward.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6227,"text":"Great, thank you. Are there questions?","speaker":"B"},{"t":6231,"text":"Councillor Morrison, could you refresh our memory about what happened with the religious institutions? So churches and what?","speaker":"A"},{"t":6240,"text":"We're not on that yet.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6241,"text":"Oh, oh, I'm sorry, I jumped ahead.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6245,"text":"Next slide, any questions on enterprise risk management, resource planning? Pardon me, I just have one question and just given sort of the state of the universe and the bi Canadian significance that we're all trying to","speaker":"B"},{"t":6270,"text":"look","speaker":"D"},{"t":6270,"text":"toward buying Canadian, is there anything within our procurement process that supports that kind of direction or is there something you might need from council if they wish to provide direction to utilize and prioritize Canadian companies where possible through the chair.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6294,"text":"So the procurement bylaw that we currently have, the purchase of and disposal bylaw does have wording in there in regards to preference for local, then moving to provincial to Canadian and if need be moving internationally.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6307,"text":"But it does ask to be seeking as close to the municipality as possible and expanding out from that point.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6314,"text":"It's not part of the actual criteria that we evaluate, but it is something that staff take into consideration in each of the procurement opportunities that they have.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6324,"text":"Okay, thank you very much. I heard someone is willing to move the. Yes, because I second it. Do you wish to speak to it?","speaker":"B"},{"t":6333,"text":"No, I just want to say that I know Councillor Helliwell don't want to speak for him, but I know that being working in this in his day job was quite supportive of moving fast on this because of that capacity that everyone else was doing.","speaker":"G"},{"t":6347,"text":"So my main question was why out of cycle. But I think Mr. And explained that. So this is great. And I think that's a lot less money than I would have thought it would have been.","speaker":"G"},{"t":6358,"text":"So.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6359,"text":"Okay, are you ready for the question? All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed. Motions carried. And we move down to permissive tax exemptions. And I would think that's still you.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6374,"text":"Thank you, your worship. So the report and the bylaw you have in front of you this evening is illustrating the approvals that council had provided for multi year. This is the last year of these approvals. 20, 27.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6388,"text":"All the recipients and those that have applied previously have been notified that the requirement to apply for a permissive exemption will be required next year.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6398,"text":"They've all been notified of the deadline of August of 2027 to submit an application. But what you're seeing this evening is the last of the multi year approvals for the permissive tax for the nonprofit organizations.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6412,"text":"We're talking about the places of worship that already has a three year bylaw that is currently going to last year as well.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6420,"text":"So in 2027 they'll be required to come forward and submit applications for permissive exemption starting the 2028 taxation year going forward.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6432,"text":"Thank you. Are there questions? Councillor Morrison?","speaker":"B"},{"t":6434,"text":"Sorry, I was busy reading my notes on the last items. That's why I asked the question earlier.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6439,"text":"But on that, what I, what I had heard from some of the, some of our local religious institutions when I was out door knocking people from their, their respective councils was that we had removed the permissive tax can tax grant.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6452,"text":"But that I don't believe that's the case. That's why I asked the question. Could you, through the chair? Yeah.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6458,"text":"So the last bylaw covering the places of worship, previously council had granted 100 year, 100% exemption to all of those within the last bylaw.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6468,"text":"It was reduced by 75% for the first two years with a 50% in the third year. So in 2027 they're expected to receive 50% tax exemption on the portion that is non statutory.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6482,"text":"So there are statutory exemptions that are applied by BC Assessment. They'll still receive 100% exemption for those portions, but the non exempt or the non statutory will be exempted at 50% as per council approval in the last bylaw.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6498,"text":"Just so we understand what that is, is that like parking lot or other buildings that aren't part of the religious use, like.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6508,"text":"Yeah, through the chair. So the B. C. assessment has their own assessment in regards to what's statutory or not. Typically the statutory exemptions are the place of worship and the land on which it resides.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6518,"text":"There are some other portions of the property that are sometimes statutorily exempt, but that's determined based BC assessment.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6524,"text":"So what council is looking at is the remaining portions and that's what I'm saying, the 50% will be applied to those portions for each of the places of worship.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6533,"text":"Okay, and the last question, have you got any kind of feedback from those religious groups at all about that being financially challenging for them coming up for","speaker":"A"},{"t":6543,"text":"the next round through the chair. So I've received a number of pieces of correspondence from multiple places of worship. Not in regards to next year, next year is going to be a different calculation for them.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6558,"text":"But I know going from 100% down to 75% a number of them expressed concerns to staff in regards to the unexpected nature as well as what that's going to mean from a financial standpoint.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6572,"text":"Okay,","speaker":"L"},{"t":6575,"text":"but it sounds like they basically just accepted that they have to do this because the council I don't believe has heard any sort of appeal or any kind of resistance.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6586,"text":"It's.","speaker":"I"},{"t":6586,"text":"They've just complied through the chair so","speaker":"A"},{"t":6590,"text":"staff's staff's involvement in the local grant committee is strictly administrative.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6594,"text":"So communication that I've received from the organizations have either gone has been distributed to council or I've directed them to the chair of the local grant committee for response.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6604,"text":"Oh I see. Okay. Thank you.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6607,"text":"Okay. There is a recommendation give first second, third reading.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6612,"text":"One more question and this is perhaps for Mr.","speaker":"G"},{"t":6615,"text":"Brown but just when I should have tweaked this earlier but the town square parking lot is that owned by us or and just make sure do the revenues come back to the township or how does that work?","speaker":"G"},{"t":6631,"text":"Your worship to Councillor Cavins the parking lot behind us is owned by Aragon. There is a revenue sharing agreement but they're probably not making a great deal of revenue.","speaker":"H"},{"t":6643,"text":"There's a cost sharing agreement also it's all in the parking agreement that we pay for some of the costs for proportional on the number of underground and surface parking stalls that we have control of but parking lot itself is owned","speaker":"H"},{"t":6660,"text":"by Aragon and so this is just for the parking lot behind this a tax exemption. It says town square parking lot that's simply the lot behind here not the underground parking.","speaker":"G"},{"t":6671,"text":"That's correct.","speaker":"D"},{"t":6672,"text":"Okay thank you","speaker":"A"},{"t":6676,"text":"Council There is a motion that would be required thought do we move?","speaker":"B"},{"t":6682,"text":"I. I'll move it. I thought we had move.","speaker":"A"},{"t":6684,"text":"Thank you and I'm looking for a seconder thank you. Further discussion seeing none all those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6695,"text":"Motion is carried we move down and there is a notice of motion and I'll just read out the Therefore be it resolved that staff be directed to prepare a report providing additional information regarding fall across aquatic facility facility utilization levels and available capacity within the Esquimalt Rec Center Existing wait lists and demand transfer preschool and school age swimming lessons Operational and programming options to increase lesson capacity where feasible Partnership opportunities with school districts to expand school based lesson delivery during daytime hours creating additional capacity in the evening and on weekends this approach is consistent with recommendations contained in the recreation strategic plan and long longer term considerations related to regional aquatic service provision including the potential impacts of resident first registration systems and other access management approaches and we have a rise and report and that is that council rise and report on the appointment of Jaeger Braum as the youth representative to the Esquimalt Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee for the term commencing September 1, 2026, and ending June 30, 2027.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6786,"text":"And I did reach out to let Jaeger know, and his family were very excited, as was he. And now we are down to public comment, period.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6800,"text":"And this is on any topic that impacts Esquimalt, excluding agenda items and matters that will or have been the subject of a public hearing. Are there any members of the public that wish to speak?","speaker":"B"},{"t":6819,"text":"Any members of the public that wish to speak? I will call a third time, and seeing none, I will ask for a motion to adjourn on our third last meeting. All those in favor? Any opposed? None opposed.","speaker":"B"},{"t":6839,"text":"Thank you, audience, for attending.","speaker":"B"}],"words":15358,"fetchedAt":"2026-10-03T04:20:09.079Z"}