{"videoId":"HOl9E71iNhc","source":"serpapi","segments":[{"t":327,"text":"Well, good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Good to see another full house here this evening. I'd like to uh call the regular council meeting for"},{"t":334,"text":"Monday, May 25th to order. Uh before I start, I would like to uh quickly uh and respectfully acknowledge that we are gathered here on the traditional"},{"t":343,"text":"territory of the Laquangan speaking peoples represented by the Songis and Casspan nations and we're grateful to"},{"t":351,"text":"live, work, and play in this special place. Item two is approval of the agenda. Um I know I think there's a lot"},{"t":359,"text":"of people here that are gathered to speak about 420 Tamarak um this evening."},{"t":364,"text":"I just want to let everyone know that item 9.1 uh the it has been taken off struck off the agenda mainly because uh"},{"t":373,"text":"there's a report uh you can't put the cart before the horse and there's no report so no one here around this table"},{"t":381,"text":"wants to make a decision on it until we see the report and that will be available by the next council meeting I"},{"t":388,"text":"believe so that has been uh struck off for those that are are waiting you can speak here tonight that's fine I have no"},{"t":395,"text":"problems. Might be more impactful when we actually bring it to the uh to the agenda which will will be at the next"},{"t":401,"text":"council meeting. And on that note, uh I'm going to look for a mover and secondary to adopt today's agenda, please. Thank you. Okay, council."},{"t":412,"text":"Sorry, you got it."},{"t":413,"text":"My apologies, Mr. Mayor. There's one amendment that item 10 in camera, the reason to close the meeting. We've added on one section 92B the consideration of"},{"t":422,"text":"information received and held in competence u relating to negotiations between the municipality provincial government or federal government or both."},{"t":430,"text":"Okay. Approve. Thanks. So on the amended agenda council Olen and councelor Grove seconds it any discussion? Seeing none I'll call the question. Any opposed?"},{"t":441,"text":"Seeing none motion carries. And I would also like to welcome councelor Jensen who is joining us virtually. Thanks very much for joining us uh this evening."},{"t":450,"text":"Councelor Jensen. Uh as far as uh item three goes, mayor's message. I only have one message here uh which is important"},{"t":457,"text":"to all the great taxpayers of Cwood that uh the city uh the city of Cwood's property taxes notices will be mailed"},{"t":465,"text":"out this week. um actually as starting as of today and uh payments are due July 2nd. Just a reminder everybody because"},{"t":474,"text":"certainly don't want to have you pay uh I want you to avoid the 10% penalty for for late payment. And on that note, I'll"},{"t":482,"text":"move on to item four, which is the adoption and receipt of the minutes. May I have a mover and seconder to approve and receive the minutes of the recommendation? Thank you."},{"t":495,"text":"Thank you, Councelor Grove and councelor Olsen. Uh, are there any errors or omissions?"},{"t":501,"text":"Seeing none, I'll call the question. Any opposed? Seeing none, motion carries. I will move on to public participation. Uh"},{"t":509,"text":"item five, we have three written submissions that were received prior to the agenda publication and they are"},{"t":516,"text":"attached to the tonight's agenda and there are seven written submissions that were received after agenda publication"},{"t":523,"text":"and they will be appended to the agenda uh at following tonight's meeting. Yep."},{"t":529,"text":"Go ahead. Councelor Ward. Councelor Ward."},{"t":534,"text":"Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, in relation to the written submissions received for the the public's knowledge, one of the uh"},{"t":541,"text":"letters received is from um a student on behalf of 100 uh local secondary students seeking support from the city"},{"t":549,"text":"of Cwood for a proposed bylaw amendment uh at the CRD. Uh these students have written to the CRD uh and are planning"},{"t":557,"text":"on attending the CRD to amend the bylaw, the clean air bylaw 3962. Um what they're seeking to do is just to put up"},{"t":565,"text":"enforcement signs at bus stops locally um that indicate that smoking uh and similar activities are prohibited within"},{"t":574,"text":"7 meters of a bus stop which is pretty comparable to what the CRD already places and Island Health already places near uh near facilities like that. So,"},{"t":582,"text":"I'm just looking to um make a motion for council that we uh write a letter in support of these students in publicizing"},{"t":591,"text":"the the smoking ban which already exists. The the motion is strictly to put signage in place. So, I'd like to move that we write a letter of support."},{"t":602,"text":"Uh second council Gay and uh any discussion on that? It's a no-brainer to me. Um on that note, I'll call a question. Any opposed?"},{"t":612,"text":"Seeing none, motion carries. Thanks very much uh for bringing that up to us. Uh um Council Ward,"},{"t":620,"text":"um I just like to thank everyone in the public for your written submissions. Uh one member of the public has uh has registered to speak virtually tonight."},{"t":630,"text":"And before I open up the floor, is that person available? I don't see Oh, is he"},{"t":637,"text":"Andrew? Okay. So, I will open the floor for Andrew. You can get you get to go first before I open it up to the floor"},{"t":645,"text":"in in city hall. Andrew, the chair, Mr. Mayor, and council. Thank you very much for having me. I'm here to"},{"t":654,"text":"speak um just very briefly as it relates to development permit um delegation authority um specifically as it relates to"},{"t":662,"text":"instream projects. Um I represent PC Urban. for a developer with an interest that's in the final stages of a"},{"t":669,"text":"development permit application on Island Highway. And while I can certainly see and understand the um desire for council"},{"t":678,"text":"to have authority over development permits of larger residential mixeduse projects. I do think it's an important"},{"t":686,"text":"message being sent um to keep an instream protection or to protect the folks that made the financial decisions."},{"t":696,"text":"um under the rules of the day and in such good faith um in a time where our industry is is working extremely hard"},{"t":703,"text":"and and things are very very challenging. Um our particular project we're very excited to be moving forward"},{"t":711,"text":"with uh quickly here and um just changing the process for us at this stage presents significant challenges"},{"t":719,"text":"and risk. So, I just want to make sure that that's um that's heard and I'm sure there's a lot of um smart folks and deliberations that have been going on"},{"t":726,"text":"about this, but I just think um based on the time and the current economic environment that we're living in, um it"},{"t":734,"text":"would be um well received by the development folks um and folks in the community to allow the people to who"},{"t":742,"text":"have started the process under a set of rules to continue and finish under that set of rules um if they are already in stream. I thank you very much for your"},{"t":750,"text":"time uh and for hearing me and uh I'll keep it brief not to not to slow up a very packed agenda here. Thank you."},{"t":758,"text":"Thank you very much, Mr. Peterson."},{"t":761,"text":"Okay, I will welcome people from the floor to come up and speak. We have two minutes. Please come on up. If you could identify yourself and where you live, that would be great. Thank you."},{"t":771,"text":"Hello, Mayor and Council."},{"t":772,"text":"Hello, Mayor and Council. Uh my name is Kale Krooks. I live over in Royal Bay and I'm here to speak actually about the BC Transit delegation presentation you're about to hear from Mr. Mangamir."},{"t":782,"text":"Um I'm sure he will go over all of the details about the exciting developments in the Victoria regional transit plan."},{"t":787,"text":"I'm the vice president now of the better transit society here in the capital region district and I really wanted to come speak to you actually just to flag a couple of things that I think are"},{"t":795,"text":"really important as callwood specific items that are in the VRTP and are being developed. Uh chief among them being that on Mr. Mangabir's slides 13 and 14,"},{"t":805,"text":"there are some little maps talking about the potential network designs for the upcoming rapid transit network that will be included in the 25-y year vision for"},{"t":813,"text":"this plan. And in those network designs, there are there's a potential for Callwood to really win big. There is the"},{"t":820,"text":"potential that we might see rapid transit alignments going into Cwood farther than what the current 95 does on Island Highway and Coldstream. There is"},{"t":828,"text":"a potential for BC Transit to consider routting rapid bus service all the way up Sou Road and through Kelly into Langford that way which obviously is a"},{"t":836,"text":"much better service to Collwood residents."},{"t":839,"text":"But I want to flag that that's not the only alignment that is proposed. The alignments ultimately haven't been decided and will be subject to future study. And so there's lots of other"},{"t":848,"text":"alignments that prioritize Langford over Cwood for lack of a better word. There's lots of alignments that want to use the ENN or want to use Highway One. And I"},{"t":856,"text":"just want to flag that I think this is a really important time for the city of Cwood to consider that we should be really getting the ball rolling on this"},{"t":864,"text":"opportunity because we really need to start putting together a lot more transit priority and we need to start thinking about the future of transit in"},{"t":872,"text":"this city and I think that requires getting you know dusting off the old urban systems report regarding the bus lanes on souk road and I think that"},{"t":879,"text":"regards island highway and goldstream as well that we shouldn't lose out on the moment and these plans are in development and it's upon the city of"},{"t":888,"text":"Cowwood and all of us to really show BC Transit our emphasis and enthusiasm to have rapid transit. Thank you."},{"t":896,"text":"Thank you very much for your feedback. That's great. Next, please."},{"t":908,"text":"It's hot right now. So, perfect."},{"t":913,"text":"Uh, hello. My name is Sherah Schultz from 401 Tamarak Road. Good evening, mayor and council. Thank you for removing 420 Tamarak from tonight's"},{"t":921,"text":"agenda. Pausing and conducting a policy procedure review is necessary step. And I'm here tonight to speak strongly in favor of the ultimate goal of that"},{"t":929,"text":"review. Formally removing the Gamble Park and Tamarak Road Pocket from the OCP's highdensity designation. This isn't just about one building. It's"},{"t":936,"text":"about procedural integrity. We agree that pushing forward this with this multi-story resoning application before completing the ordered review puts the"},{"t":943,"text":"cart before the horse. It bypasses council's own directives and erodess public trust. So we are grateful for council to honor its own voted upon process. We saw commentary on social"},{"t":952,"text":"media this week suggesting neighborhood push back is just volume or narrow interest that ignores the absent future residents um or children who inherit this infrastructure."},{"t":964,"text":"With respect, our opposition is based on objective planning principles, safety, and council's own past logic. True leadership for future residents means"},{"t":972,"text":"building high density where infrastructure actually exists to support it. Forcing six-story buildings into choked single access pockets with"},{"t":978,"text":"severe bottlenecks at Goldstream is uh a disservice to all future families in Cwood. If we ignore topographically isolated constraints, those future"},{"t":987,"text":"residents and children are the ones who will inherit the safety hazards, gridlock, and taxpayer burden. Our presence tonight isn't panic that found"},{"t":994,"text":"a crowd. It's a community asking council to align its mapping with reality."},{"t":998,"text":"Council correctly rejected 396 Tamarak because high density does not fit in this pocket. And we urge you to use the policy review to fix the root cause,"},{"t":1006,"text":"direct staff to amend the OCP boundary, and permanently protect the Gamble Park neighborhood. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much."},{"t":1014,"text":"Next, please. Push the button."},{"t":1026,"text":"Yeah, you're hot."},{"t":1027,"text":"My name is Anbertson. I live at 408 Tamarack Road. Um, good evening, Mayor and Council. Uh, my neighbor just spoke"},{"t":1034,"text":"of the critical need to fix the OC mapping error. Um, during this p during your policy review when you get an opportunity, I am here to offer constructive pro housing path forward."},{"t":1044,"text":"Uh, we don't want to see this property sit empty forever. We're not anti- housing. We want to see that development succeed. We urge the council to use this"},{"t":1054,"text":"policy review to pivot away from high-rise towers in this pocket by encouraging me medium density"},{"t":1061,"text":"designations um that will enable more appropriate projects like a townhouse project and that would align with the"},{"t":1067,"text":"spirit of um bill 44. A six-story uh building could potentially concentrateund an additional 150"},{"t":1075,"text":"vehicles into a two-story underground parade, forcing them out to a narrow street at peak hours. This guarantees"},{"t":1082,"text":"gridlock at uh Gamble Drive and Goldstream Avenue."},{"t":1087,"text":"Town houses naturally distribute traffic. Um a tower demands aggressive disruptive um aggressive and disruptive"},{"t":1093,"text":"overhauls to our isolated um water and sewer lines. Town houses are more likely to use the existing um utilize the"},{"t":1102,"text":"existing ground servicing frameworks fitting more naturally the profile of the land rather than breaking it. We"},{"t":1109,"text":"must also talk about the kind of housing actually uh that color actually needs."},{"t":1113,"text":"High-rise structures require expensive concrete parcades, elevators and complex engineering. This uh drives up the con"},{"t":1121,"text":"uh construction costs and results in tiny expensive uh tiny expensive investor suites with high lifelong"},{"t":1128,"text":"strata fees. Town houses could deliver the missing middle multi-bedroom familyorded homes um with front door and"},{"t":1137,"text":"possible outdoor spaces. This is the exact housing that young family and first-time buyers are looking to afford."},{"t":1143,"text":"forcing a high-rise in this neighborhood could lead to prolonged um public opposition and possibly costly delays for the development. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you."},{"t":1155,"text":"Next, please."},{"t":1166,"text":"Good evening. Um my name is Charlotte. I live at 406 Gamble Place. Um during this policy procedure review, we need to"},{"t":1174,"text":"address the major barrier to smart growth in Coldwood, the city's rigid reliance on floor area ratios or F"},{"t":1181,"text":"within the OCP to justify highdensity highrises. Citing F to push a six-story tower into Tamarak Road treats planning"},{"t":1190,"text":"like a math problem instead of a design solution. A spreadsheet metric is not an infrastructure plan. F measures square"},{"t":1197,"text":"footage on paper. It completely ignores the physical reality of our narrow streets and the severe bottleneck where"},{"t":1204,"text":"Gamble Drive Whale meets Goldfream. We are not the only ones pointing this out."},{"t":1209,"text":"The province of British Columbia takes a notoriously dim view of using F to dictate land use. In its official"},{"t":1216,"text":"smallcale multi-ousing guideline, the province explicitly advises municipalities to move away from F"},{"t":1224,"text":"because the province recognizes that rigid F limits choke architectural creativity and block the construction of middle housing density."},{"t":1234,"text":"Um, forwardinking BC cities like Delta have completely eliminated F regulations for small multi-unit projects. They did"},{"t":1242,"text":"this because they realized that blind adherence to F metrics forces an artificial binary choice. You either get a single family home or a massive"},{"t":1251,"text":"concrete tower. When cold planning uses F's a strict rule, it traps developers to get a return on investment under a"},{"t":1258,"text":"rigid floor area index. A developer is practically forced to stack units vert vertically into a disruptive six-story"},{"t":1266,"text":"footprint. If council abanders F for this pocket and rec regulates by form instead of using smart height limits,"},{"t":1275,"text":"footprints and setbacks, you unlock creative problem solving. The developer can build ground orientated family town homes. This delivers missing middle"},{"t":1283,"text":"housing that fits the neutral natural profile of the land without crushing the neighborhood. Thank you."},{"t":1290,"text":"Thanks very much. We got the gist of your message. Thank you. Next, please."},{"t":1300,"text":"Mine fit into two minutes when I did it earlier, so we'll see. I'm Caitlyn Keenan. I live at 391 Tamarack Road in the Gamble Tamarack neighborhood. I"},{"t":1307,"text":"appreciate that the decision on 420 Tamarack has been deferred to allow council to consider due process for our neighborhood. I want to speak to the outstanding council resolution"},{"t":1315,"text":"underlying this issue as a matter of urgency. Our neighborhood has been fighting an OCP designation that by every measure doesn't fit us. We're an"},{"t":1323,"text":"established residential neighborhood, the same as dozens of others in Hallwood, a dozen others in Cwood, but we're the only ones without a gentle infill designation. Instead, we're zoned"},{"t":1331,"text":"for high-rise towers on a single access street less than 40 m from an already constrained signal. On May 4th, coun"},{"t":1338,"text":"staff told this council's planning committee exactly what this means. They stated on the record that viable densification here requires converting"},{"t":1346,"text":"the entire neighborhood wholesale to 15tory towers. In the meantime, a life safety problem will accumulate at public expense."},{"t":1354,"text":"Council passed resolution 2025224 last October, acknowledging that existing neighborhoods like ours deserve the dignity of a gentler approach."},{"t":1363,"text":"Staff's stated position since then has been in effect that the resolution doesn't apply to our neighborhood. I'd ask council to consider whether that"},{"t":1371,"text":"response reflects the intent of the resolution."},{"t":1374,"text":"We believe the path forward doesn't require a full OCP review. The OCP's own gentle infill objective, which is policy 6.2.4.1,"},{"t":1382,"text":"was written precisely for established single detached neighborhoods like ours. The Cllwood Corner's designation wasn't."},{"t":1388,"text":"Applying it to a residential street as an inconsistency within the OCP itself, and a standard amendment can correct it."},{"t":1395,"text":"A medium density reclassification would resolve council's outstanding resolution, restore equitable treatment to our neighborhood, enable that missing middle housing the province is asking"},{"t":1403,"text":"for, and remove a real infrastructure liability. What's needed is a specific timebound directive to staff to bring it"},{"t":1410,"text":"forward. There are a handful of meetings left before the election. This council knows this file. A new council won't."},{"t":1417,"text":"We're asking you to act while you still have the opportunity. Thank you. Thank you very much."},{"t":1424,"text":"Next, please."},{"t":1430,"text":"Hi, my name is Lel Keenan. I also live at 391 Tamarak Road. Uh I don't have any prepared statements, but I do have a couple of notes from the planning and"},{"t":1438,"text":"land use committee. One of which is that staff indicated that the Gamble intersection is not presently monitored for traffic flows. Second is that there"},{"t":1447,"text":"is currently no legal way for a path to the goose to be made inside of our neighborhood. All bike traffic would"},{"t":1455,"text":"have to be routed along Whale or Goldream Road. Um, third, there is presently no funding"},{"t":1463,"text":"mechanism to cause developers to contribute to the major infrastructure changes that would be needed for maximizing density within our"},{"t":1471,"text":"neighborhood, which would include a through road coming out either on Whale"},{"t":1476,"text":"Road or some other point of egress. Uh finally,"},{"t":1484,"text":"I would just make a rhetorical uh argument that much has been said that"},{"t":1491,"text":"change is inevitable and we are simply trying to hold back the future. I would submit to council that rate of change is a vitally important thing in many areas."},{"t":1504,"text":"I would submit as an example that if you're going to jump out of an airplane, your chances of having a good outcome are significantly better if you have a"},{"t":1512,"text":"parachute and if you head straight to the ground. Thank you. Thank you very much. Next, please."},{"t":1528,"text":"Good evening. My name is Anne Jeffrey. I also live at 391 Tamarack."},{"t":1535,"text":"I want to speak briefly on the staff report on policy projects and"},{"t":1545,"text":"their increased capacity."},{"t":1548,"text":"I noticed in tonight's agenda the suggestion that the gent gentle infill policy, which I"},{"t":1557,"text":"presume they mean from resolution 2025224, um be one of the additional priorities."},{"t":1566,"text":"That's wonderful."},{"t":1569,"text":"I also note that that resolution additionally directs staff to consider the appropriateness of the Gamble"},{"t":1576,"text":"Tamarack neighborhood in the highdensity Culverwood Corners area and that that has not at this point been"},{"t":1584,"text":"suggested as one of the additional policy uh [snorts and clears throat] projects at this time. Now we fully understand"},{"t":1591,"text":"that staff have only so many hours in the day and there's only so many of them they have to prioritize."},{"t":1598,"text":"So if there is no capacity to complete that part of the resolution before the next OCP review which we were told will"},{"t":1607,"text":"be 2030 um we don't love that outcome but we can live with it. Uh however,"},{"t":1616,"text":"please in that case, if that is the case, ensure procedural fairness by declining all development proposals"},{"t":1625,"text":"specifically that rely on the that OCP's designation that is under review until such time as that review is done and"},{"t":1635,"text":"resolution R2025-224 has been completed. Thank you very much. Thank you very much."},{"t":1644,"text":"Next, please."},{"t":1660,"text":"Hi, I'm John Ferguson from 309 Seafood and I don't want to talk about Tamra. I would like to know what happened to the"},{"t":1667,"text":"road trans transit review that we were promised all probably about 14 months ago. where Royal Bay asked for sensible"},{"t":1675,"text":"speed limits in residential areas and got it in two months. We have been asking for about 5 years or said"},{"t":1682,"text":"sensible speed limits in my residential area. We've got nowhere. We've been told we need a letter to the council with everyone sign done that nothing"},{"t":1690,"text":"happened. Could somebody explain to me when we're going to get a sensible speed limit? I mean 50 car an hour on a street that's 5.2 m wide is pretty stupid."},{"t":1700,"text":"I mean, you care more about the ducks on the lagoon than you do about my kids. That's not good enough."},{"t":1707,"text":"Thank you very much. Would you like to take a business card, sir?"},{"t":1710,"text":"Uh, from the front here and uh if you want to pose that to to staff, we can someone please tell me when we're going to get some."},{"t":1718,"text":"We've been waiting if you send that to us. Thank you. Next, please."},{"t":1733,"text":"Oh, push here to speak. My apologies. Yep. Can you see the red light?"},{"t":1740,"text":"There you go. You're that one. Okay."},{"t":1742,"text":"Sorry. My name is Dan L. I live 401 Gam um Gamer uh Gamble Place. Uh last week I"},{"t":1751,"text":"went door todo um with a uh with a petition um basically"},{"t":1759,"text":"talking about opposition to uh the current OCP or our neighborhood OCP."},{"t":1766,"text":"Every single person except for one person uh signed that petition and doesn't think our neighborhood is appropriate to"},{"t":1774,"text":"be within that OCP designation. Um, I think something like this is better suited to maybe the Coldwood strip"},{"t":1782,"text":"somewhere that has the infrastructure for them. But every single person I went to, every single door that I knocked on, every single person signed it except for"},{"t":1790,"text":"one. That's that's basically all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you very much. How do I turn it off?"},{"t":1795,"text":"No, you you're good if you want to leave it on. Thank you. Uh, next, please."},{"t":1805,"text":"And for this Oh, perfect. [snorts] Is it on or not?"},{"t":1814,"text":"It's on. Okay, it's on. Uh, hi there."},{"t":1816,"text":"Uh, my name is Jason Schultz. I live at 401 Tamarack Road. Uh, I'm not as polished as many of these people. I do"},{"t":1824,"text":"not like doing what I do here standing here. I just want to say on October 14th, stood in front of you that that day and I was actually very impressed."},{"t":1831,"text":"Um, it's a simple thing. It's because basically I feel that in the modern world basically very fast-paced uh often stuff is built things are developed and"},{"t":1840,"text":"there's actually no consideration or actually uh really the the small man feels just not heard basically it feels"},{"t":1848,"text":"like I see lots of things later on after the fact where people say I wish that hadn't happened but yet they never even knew about it. So I was very impressed that you took the time personally to walk in our neighborhood. Watra streets."},{"t":1858,"text":"In your own words, you said that uh there were things like going to the main transportation hub. That's a 20-minute walk. You said with your little legs at the time. I got little legs, too. I get"},{"t":1867,"text":"it. Um it's just uh the area that we're in there, it's it doesn't make sense to"},{"t":1874,"text":"uh to build the way that it's being um forecasted. And I do appreciate that you took the time to walk down there and look around. At the moment there is if a"},{"t":1882,"text":"garbage truck or recycling truck comes, they actually go backwards down the streets slowly of course to do their job. There's no turnaround points."},{"t":1889,"text":"There's nothing else there which would cost a lot of money and a lot of tax taxpayer dollars to be able to build that. There are no sidewalks. There are no lights. Uh there's just uh countless"},{"t":1897,"text":"other things there. There's very little parking. Um yeah, it's just uh as it stands uh basically it's just yeah, it's a very small family neighborhood area."},{"t":1909,"text":"And I guess like I said before, we're not against uh building. We're just against uh the building out of reason. Yeah. Thank you."},{"t":1918,"text":"Thank you very much. Uh this this is the limit to our our public participation."},{"t":1924,"text":"We've hit 20 minutes. Is there anyone else that wants to speak at this time?"},{"t":1928,"text":"Otherwise, I'm I'm going to have to get a motion to extend this. Anybody else wish to speak? Public participation."},{"t":1937,"text":"Seeing none, I will I'm finished then and we'll move on to delegations. Um item 6.0. Thank you very uh everyone for"},{"t":1945,"text":"coming up and it takes courage to come up and speak. I know that some people feel very uncomfortable, but uh thank you. We we've heard you. So, thank you"},{"t":1954,"text":"very much. And I'm going to turn this over uh we're going to get an update on the Victoria Regional Transit Plan. Uh"},{"t":1961,"text":"Levi Meenberg, I hope I did that correctly. the manager of service uh service planning for Victoria Regional Transit. Over to you, Levi."},{"t":1971,"text":"Excellent. Thank you so much, your worship and members of council for having me and my colleague Chris Fudge, director of government relations here today to provide an update on the"},{"t":1979,"text":"Victoria Regional Transit Plan. Um just just to note at the outset, this is currently in draft form and we're really looking to give an update to to council."},{"t":1991,"text":"Is this if this one?"},{"t":1996,"text":"Oh, there we go. Uh really just to provide an update on the draft Victoria Regional Transit Plan. Um talk a little bit about the 10 big moves that we've"},{"t":2004,"text":"identified within the draft plan to move forward over the next 25 years. Really for information and also for feedback and uh input from council before we"},{"t":2012,"text":"bring it back to the commission uh later in the summer. Next slide."},{"t":2020,"text":"doesn't seem to be working. So what are the key objectives uh from this particular plan? Uh it's been about 15 years since we last conducted the long"},{"t":2029,"text":"range plan for the the system and so it's high time with the significant number of changes for us to revisit what that 25-y year future is for the transit"},{"t":2037,"text":"system. Uh, another component really is to develop some comprehensive network and route design guidelines that will allow the transit network to continue to"},{"t":2044,"text":"evolve and develop as the region continues to grow, densify, and change to make sure that we don't have to come back out in five or 10 years and update"},{"t":2051,"text":"the 25-year plan again. Um, there's a number of rapid transit priorities that we'll be updating and building into the plan. So, we'll talk a little bit about"},{"t":2059,"text":"that. And then as well uh there's a number of service and infrastructure investment priorities that we'll share today and really talk about what some of"},{"t":2067,"text":"those key elements are to move the system forward to 2050. Next slide."},{"t":2074,"text":"So there, as I indicated, there's been some significant changes within the region over the last 15 years. Uh and one of those key components is the rapid"},{"t":2081,"text":"uh pace of development here in the west shore. We've seen it in Collwood. We've seen it at Langford, we've seen it in Souk and many other areas. Um, so really"},{"t":2089,"text":"we have made some recent changes within the West Shore with the network restructure we did in in January 2024, but we recognize we already need to"},{"t":2096,"text":"revisit the the transit network because things have been changing so quickly."},{"t":2100,"text":"Um, so really uh we need to modernize the network and we need to um as well as as the"},{"t":2107,"text":"community continues to grow and develop, look at how we can use our transit resources more efficiently and effectively. Next slide."},{"t":2114,"text":"We've also seen a seismic shift in the policy landscape for transit and land use. Uh starting with the province's bills 44 and 47 which significantly"},{"t":2123,"text":"aligns between land use and transit. Um the CRD of course launched their regional transportation service and are looking at taking a stronger role within the region for regional transportation."},{"t":2133,"text":"So we've been working very closely with them through the this plan and then we will be continuing to work very closely with them as they update the regional transportation plan um in the next"},{"t":2141,"text":"couple years. And then finally, um, every municipality within the region has updated your OCP in some way, shape, or"},{"t":2148,"text":"form to align with bills 44 and 47. So, we had a great opportunity to speak about the future of transit as well as land use at the same time. So, it was a really a unique opportunity, and we"},{"t":2157,"text":"worked very closely with local government staff through the process. Next slide."},{"t":2162,"text":"Before we talk about the plan, I think there's value in just quickly talking about some of the accomplishments we've achieved within the region over the last several years. Um so first of all we"},{"t":2170,"text":"have our uh electronic fair collection technology Yumo and and we just extended that last week with debit and credit tap which is really exciting. Uh we continue"},{"t":2179,"text":"to work on uh highway uh dedicated uh infrastructure for rapid transit. Uh and that's of course starting to extend into"},{"t":2187,"text":"the west shore now on the island highway which is exciting. Uh battery electric bus rollout continues. We have 25 buses within the system uh operating using"},{"t":2194,"text":"battery electric bus technology and that rollout continues to uh to move forward."},{"t":2200,"text":"Uh we launched our first blink rapid bus line between downtown and the west shore in 2023. Uh we just completed the new"},{"t":2208,"text":"handydart uh facility in View Royal allowing us to expand handy dart service for the first time in over 10 years which is a huge milestone. And then"},{"t":2216,"text":"finally, uh, the province launched the kids 12 and under ride free program in 2021, and we've seen, uh, a resulting increase in youth riding the bus within"},{"t":2223,"text":"the region, which is great to see. Next slide. I won't speak too much about this. The current system, almost 60 routes, over 300 uh conventional buses,"},{"t":2232,"text":"over 50 handy dart buses. We're approaching closer to 900,000 annual service hours within the system now. So, that continues to grow, which is great"},{"t":2240,"text":"to see. We're over 26 million boardings per year and we're seeing as of last year up almost a million boardings within the city of Calwood jurisdiction."},{"t":2250,"text":"Uh so it's great to see those ridership numbers continuing to grow. Next slide."},{"t":2256,"text":"We conducted a robust public engagement process to support this planning process. Uh so we had an online survey."},{"t":2262,"text":"We had nine open houses and we had a number of key stakeholder engagement events. So we uh had almost 1,900 uh"},{"t":2270,"text":"online survey responses. We talked to over 350 people who came out to talk to us in person. Um and then once again we engaged with 23 stakeholder groups that"},{"t":2278,"text":"included neighborhood and community associations, major employers and key institutions like UIC, BC Fairies, etc."},{"t":2285,"text":"Um we heard a lot of feedback, but if I can summarize it really briefly, uh there's a desire for improved frequency and reliability were some of the core pieces of feedback we got. There's this"},{"t":2293,"text":"huge amount of comments about rapid transit. People want to see faster transit, more more reliable transit and a desire for simplified routes and"},{"t":2300,"text":"direct connections. Next slide. I'm going to speed things up a bit here. Uh network and route design guidelines. Um"},{"t":2308,"text":"ultimately this is about creating a clear framework for decision-m for for transit. So we're treating every community within the region equitably"},{"t":2316,"text":"and so everyone understands if we build a community in a certain way, this is what we can expect from a transit perspective. Uh so we'll be finalizing"},{"t":2323,"text":"that as part of this plan process. Next slide. So this really brings us to the big reveal of the 10 big moves for the region. Uh about seven of those are"},{"t":2331,"text":"rapid transit or rapid transit uh associated. Um so that includes the McKenzie and Peninsula rapid bus lines."},{"t":2338,"text":"Some new proposals to consider extending rapid transit to James Bay Jubilee. Um it includes higher order transit to the west shore. So that's a higher capacity"},{"t":2347,"text":"vehicle like light rail or trackless trams. uh potential supplemental rapid transit corridors within the west shore."},{"t":2353,"text":"Uh the uptown and six milei mobility hub. Six mile is actually not represented there. This is uh it's been updated since. Um and beyond rapid"},{"t":2361,"text":"transit, we also have a priority to improve interreional connections uh to the north island. Uh delivery of the frequent transit network and modernizing"},{"t":2369,"text":"the network to try to get more value out of our existing system and then modernizing the handy dart service and continue to expand and invest in that."},{"t":2377,"text":"Next slide."},{"t":2380,"text":"Uh so the network modernization, this is one of the most complex ones to communicate. I won't spend too much time on it, but we're really trying to build out a frequent transit grid. Uh and"},{"t":2387,"text":"we've worked on this in collaboration with local government staff really to to align the highest levels of service where we anticipate the highest level of density growth and ridership potential."},{"t":2396,"text":"Um, beyond that frequent transit grid, we have opportunities to implement supplemental regional uh express services and limited stop services to"},{"t":2405,"text":"help uh serve certain areas better uh or or more quickly. I think a classic case for that type of service could be Royal"},{"t":2412,"text":"Bay in the future to get people in and out of Royal Bay during commuter times more efficiently and effectively. Um, and then there's also the potential to consider digital on demand service to"},{"t":2421,"text":"lower density areas. um essentially a a new technology and service type where you can book your trip on on an app and"},{"t":2429,"text":"the bus will come and pick you up and take you to the nearest hub to connect to other transit services within the region. Next slide."},{"t":2438,"text":"Um what are some other components of the network modernization? Part of it is really how can we use our existing resources more efficiently and provide more value to more people within the"},{"t":2447,"text":"transit system. Um so one of those opportunities is to reduce service duplication. So, for example, we have over 20 we have 20 routes right now that serve sections of Douglas Street. You know, is that the right right number?"},{"t":2457,"text":"Could we potentially spread some of that service out to provide more coverage and more frequency to more corridors within the region? Um, harmonized stop spacing"},{"t":2464,"text":"is on certain corridors we have stops very close together. Um, so there's a potential to consider slight increase to improve speed and reliability and we"},{"t":2472,"text":"actually got a high level of support from the public um on the concept of minor changes there. And then uh we're also working on a bus feed and"},{"t":2480,"text":"reliability program to help support our local governments moving transit more quickly in the future. Um and we're still working on that project, but we hope to update councils in the future on that. Next slide."},{"t":2492,"text":"Handy dirt modernization. As I mentioned, we just completed the new facility, so we can finally expand, which is fantastic. There's also the um"},{"t":2500,"text":"uh custom transit solution technology um that we'll be looking to roll out which improves the customer experience, simplifies booking um and eligibility uh"},{"t":2509,"text":"approval processes just to improve uh trip planning, improve service efficiency and improve the customer experience. Next slide."},{"t":2518,"text":"Uh so this is really the the big uh I would say the most significant of the big moves for the Westshore. So this is"},{"t":2525,"text":"looking to graduate to that next level of transit, whether that be light rail transit or trackless trams. Um given the significant uh changes to planned land"},{"t":2534,"text":"use in the future, we just need to revisit the alignment between the six mile mobility hub and Langford. Um so there will need to be a separate study"},{"t":2541,"text":"to revisit that component. Um and I think once again there's opportunity for for ongoing engagement and consultation with local government staff and and"},{"t":2549,"text":"councils within the region as that process unfolds. Um and then we also need to revisit the technology like is it a train is it a trackless tram"},{"t":2556,"text":"high-capacity trackless tram. Next slide."},{"t":2561,"text":"Um beyond the higher order transit and potential supplemental rapid bus corridors within the west shore we've got the development of the frequent"},{"t":2568,"text":"transit network. Um uh and there's a number of different transit priority investments to support bus speed and reliability that we can consider."},{"t":2577,"text":"See I am out of time. Next slide."},{"t":2581,"text":"Uh so so just before I talk about next steps, I just want to say this is a very ambitious plan. It requires that all parties within the region work uh"},{"t":2589,"text":"collaboratively together in a different way than we have historically. The province with more funding, potentially legislative opportunities for funding,"},{"t":2597,"text":"um the the CRD for supporting TDM and individual municipalities with how we can move buses more more quickly and efficiently uh through through streets."},{"t":2607,"text":"Um and so in terms of next steps, we're presenting this draft plan to all municipalities in the CRD. Um we're updating our key stakeholders and rights"},{"t":2615,"text":"rights holders uh final time and the plan is to present the revised draft plan with that feedback to the"},{"t":2622,"text":"commission in July for their feedback and input. With that, I want to thank you so much for having me here today and I look forward to answering any questions council may have."},{"t":2630,"text":"Thanks very much, Levi. I'm going to open it up for questions from council. I'll start with council ward."},{"t":2637,"text":"Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, thank you, Levi, for uh for the presentation. Um, I noted in there the the comment that one"},{"t":2644,"text":"of the focuses is prior prioritizing growth along transit corridors. And I think um when I came on to council in"},{"t":2651,"text":"2022, we we did review that urban systems report that Mr. Crook mentioned um which"},{"t":2660,"text":"indicated the opportunity for for a kind of a rapid transit or or high priority transit corridor along Souk Road. Um and"},{"t":2668,"text":"I took that to be as kind of the the intention and I think in good faith this council proceeded with that in mind. Uh you'll know probably even on your drive"},{"t":2676,"text":"out here you pass there's a pretty large development going in just opposite Royal Roads that was approved based on the premise of this being a transit"},{"t":2683,"text":"corridor. Um the idea being that if we densify that corridor we could retain the you know the road right away. Uh"},{"t":2691,"text":"staff had planned for that for I think a 30 meter dedication so that we would be able to put in those priority bus lanes and even potentially leave it open for"},{"t":2699,"text":"for other some sort of future mode of transit. So, I I just wanted to leave you with the note that I think that I only speak for myself, but I think our"},{"t":2706,"text":"actions have shown that we're very keen on making sure that um that the transit network doesn't become um kind of lost"},{"t":2714,"text":"in the noise from the bigger municipality. you know, Langford is is getting spoken about because the population is higher, but when you look"},{"t":2721,"text":"at where the largest density and and buildouts are in the West Shore, currently Royal Bay Area, but that would include Olympic View, Beachlands. Um,"},{"t":2730,"text":"you know, and that's an area that's underserved now. We get lineups and buses passing by at peak times for the high school and things like that. Um and"},{"t":2738,"text":"there's a huge opportunity I think when you speak about high order rapid transit and and again being along a um a dense corridor if it's just running out"},{"t":2746,"text":"highway one you know really once you kind of um hit the view royal area there isn't anything there and there's a lot of parkland with theus lake and the rest"},{"t":2753,"text":"so you're driving by a lot of areas to then get to the hub and I think logically the current order of flow with vehicular traffic is to come down"},{"t":2762,"text":"through Cwood many people come down gold um you know whale road um highway, you know, on the souk road. So, I think"},{"t":2771,"text":"there's there's a great opportunity if you're looking at densification on along a transit corridor to look where the opportunity already exists today. Um and I think I know BC Transit has had some"},{"t":2779,"text":"challenges, I think, with running the the bus lines up um Souk Road, existing property owners and gaining right away."},{"t":2786,"text":"There's some challenges there, but I would say that if you're looking at the stretch beyond um the whale road s road intersection and then where shore"},{"t":2794,"text":"recreation center is beyond that, as I said, we've already taken steps to secure that right away beyond that. So, the notion of running something up and"},{"t":2802,"text":"connecting to Lancer via Kelly Road or some other option, um you know, I think is one we certainly want to be at the table u with BC Transit and other"},{"t":2811,"text":"stakeholders. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm a big proponent of LRT. I'd really rather see that than anything else. But uh you know that may still be"},{"t":2818,"text":"uh pie in the sky dream. But I'm a dreamer and and I think that's ultimately the best solution for for our region. But uh but I just wanted to"},{"t":2825,"text":"leave you with that that this isn't just a thought for us. Um others might be talking about it. We've made development decisions on prioritizing that growth"},{"t":2833,"text":"corridor and uh but we hope that you keep that in mind as this, you know, conversation progresses. So thank you. Thank you."},{"t":2841,"text":"Thank you very much. Councelor Day."},{"t":2845,"text":"Thank you. Uh I'm pleased to see the the changes coming forward and moving us back to a system that worked really well"},{"t":2853,"text":"before. I've been a transit rider for more than 35 years here. And those"},{"t":2860,"text":"routes were relied on and they changed a lot based on competition for ridership."},{"t":2867,"text":"I I think would be the fairest way to say, you know, you're looking for the greatest doors, number of doors to be able to access the transit system. And"},{"t":2876,"text":"and I appreciate that's where you're coming from in running the buses down um Goldstream. Uh and it's it's become a"},{"t":2886,"text":"quarter that's difficult to get through whether you're on a bus or in a car. And so I think we're it's bringing us back"},{"t":2893,"text":"to um you're making these transit priority investments for speed and reliability as well. Uh so I do think"},{"t":2903,"text":"that the Souk Road and the Kelly Road corridor um are just uh better quarters"},{"t":2911,"text":"for getting through our area. um not not because I'm for Hallwood necessarily,"},{"t":2917,"text":"but those are roots that I see working in in my daily uh route. Um and I think"},{"t":2924,"text":"that the mobility hubs and the exchanges are really important. Uh and I just wanted to ask how"},{"t":2932,"text":"um how this might roll out in terms of needing places for park and ride destinations. I don't want to be"},{"t":2939,"text":"Vancouver with the vast parking lot where you have to figure out what quadrant you're in to find your car. Uh"},{"t":2946,"text":"but I would like to see little nodes of places where you could park and catch the bus from there."},{"t":2955,"text":"Yeah, excellent question. So through the chair, um it was the last slide I had to kind of skip over as we were running out of time there. Um but there is additional park and ride capacity"},{"t":2963,"text":"identified in the plan uh within the west shore and the peninsula. Um I know there's a couple sites that have historically been contemplated. Um for"},{"t":2971,"text":"example in the aspiral view royal uh local area plan the six mile mobility hub area. Once again it's view royal formally but it's potentially accessible"},{"t":2980,"text":"to to college residents and then potentially out towards the Luxton Happy Valley area um as a general sort of"},{"t":2986,"text":"catchment area. there's uh an identificate an identified need for future park and ride capacity sort of in that that area as well um pending further conversations and u review."},{"t":2999,"text":"So, in the in the planning for your uh routes, are you looking at um"},{"t":3007,"text":"destinations as well as where not just where the riders come from, but where they're trying to get to because that"},{"t":3014,"text":"seems to have been difficult to imagine in the past. you know, whether it's hospitals, um there's a lot of places that would"},{"t":3023,"text":"benefit by not having to improve their parking structures like [clears throat] big general um just by being able to get there a different way."},{"t":3033,"text":"Yeah, great question. So through the chair, uh I think that that is really the primary purpose of the network and route design guidelines is to provide"},{"t":3041,"text":"greater clarity on how we connect things uh key places within the region together and to help provide guidance on the"},{"t":3049,"text":"number of transfers that someone can expect from a particular place type to another particular place type um elsewhere within the region. Um, and so"},{"t":3058,"text":"the benefit for that is it provides clear guidance to BC Transit when we're doing our planning that we need to make sure we're connecting certain areas in a"},{"t":3065,"text":"certain way and it also provides sort of a promise to the public, our local governments around if you build a community node in a certain way uh that"},{"t":3074,"text":"you can understand how BC Transit will approach connecting that that area into the rest of the region from a a service design perspective. Um, the other thing"},{"t":3082,"text":"I'll say too is that the That's sort of from the network perspective when we look at individual"},{"t":3089,"text":"routes and corridors. Similarly, we're going to look at other characteristics along that corridor, density, ridership potential, um the potential to"},{"t":3098,"text":"prioritize transit and move it more quickly and a number of other factors to determine what type of service should we be using to connect between this node"},{"t":3106,"text":"and that node is sort of a two a two uh phase approach. one looking at the network and how we connect nodes and"},{"t":3113,"text":"then the other is based on the characteristics of the corridor between those nodes what type of service uh is the most suitable based off the"},{"t":3121,"text":"characteristics we see. So hopefully that was helpful. Thank you."},{"t":3125,"text":"Thank you very much councelor Wilson please."},{"t":3128,"text":"Thank you Mr. Mayor and thank you for the presentation Levi. I think you actually just answered some of the questions that I had. um specifically I mean you know Cwood is rapidly growing"},{"t":3137,"text":"and some of the feedback that I'm hearing is that um transit's just not able to keep up with the pace of the demand in the neighborhood areas um"},{"t":3144,"text":"specifically in areas like Royal Bay. Um so I was just wondering for the benefit of the public too what metrics are being used to determine um that increase in"},{"t":3153,"text":"the servants service frequency is my first question. Um and then just my second question so I don't forget I would love for you to elaborate a little"},{"t":3161,"text":"bit more on the digital on demand that really sort of caught my eye there. So for sure. So through the chair the first"},{"t":3168,"text":"one is complex to answer because there's a component of what type of service is warranted based off the characteristics"},{"t":3176,"text":"of a community a corridor. And then there's also the funding reality we have at any given moment. And so, um, I would"},{"t":3184,"text":"say Royal Bay is a classic case where we know it needs more service than it has today. Part of the challenge is we don't have enough resources to do everything"},{"t":3192,"text":"we would like to do within the transit system. So, as an example, we had no expansion funding approved for this year and that makes it really challenging for"},{"t":3199,"text":"us to to continue to serve the uh parts of the community that are growing really quickly that we know need that service."},{"t":3205,"text":"Um so for example uh Royal Bay is identified to be connected into the frequent transit as as a frequent"},{"t":3212,"text":"transit corridor and ideally if I had the resources we would be delivering that today. Um the other thing I'll say too is in particular Royal Bays I kind"},{"t":3220,"text":"of alluded to it in the presentation. I think there's a world where there's a regional express type of service in peak periods that connects people more"},{"t":3228,"text":"directly and more quickly uh to the rest of the transit system so they can get uh to a number of key areas within the"},{"t":3235,"text":"region more more rapidly than would be available on the current network and that's really around the demand uh based framework that we're looking to develop."},{"t":3244,"text":"road bay is going to be a key node and we need to really look at that seriously in the coming years with respect to digital on demand. Uh how do I explain it really quickly?"},{"t":3255,"text":"Um some people will call it as like Uber for buses. Um essentially what it is is it's um a bus that anyone in a"},{"t":3263,"text":"particular service area can book a ride on their app. Um, and then there's an algorithm on the back end that finds the most efficient way to pick everyone up and drop them off at their destination."},{"t":3275,"text":"Um, usually how it functions within a transit network is it's a um a service area and a low density area. So, if you"},{"t":3282,"text":"want to move within that area, it'll pick you up and drop you off within that area. And usually it ties into a transit exchange or a transit hub where if you"},{"t":3290,"text":"actually want to go elsewhere in the network, it'll take you to the transit hub and then you transfer onto the rapid bus or frequent transit network um to get to other parts of the network."},{"t":3299,"text":"Thank you. I'm looking forward to hearing more about it as it develops. Thank you. Constant growth."},{"t":3306,"text":"Yes. Thank you, Mayor. They uh you've answered so many of the questions already. So that what you're on that last piece. So my thinking is the"},{"t":3313,"text":"notions I've seen in different cities in Canada now and also around the US of microtransit I think they call it very small vehicles which are operated"},{"t":3322,"text":"perhaps battery electric you know at low lower cost per ride but yet provide that sort of errand task. So people scooting"},{"t":3331,"text":"about the west shore BC tra the the service it seems to me has been function of in my experience 35 years out here"},{"t":3339,"text":"focused on getting a lot of people moving into the city in the commute uh kind of corridors even your uh your"},{"t":3347,"text":"diagrams here kind of show that um almost as if it's a bias because there's a lot of when I first moved here in 95"},{"t":3356,"text":"to a lot of people said well it's nice to have a new store like a big box store because we don't have to one less reason"},{"t":3363,"text":"to go into town. It used to be to buy toothpaste you almost had to go to uh uptown. Well, that's long gone. So, it's"},{"t":3371,"text":"that scootabout uh requirement of daily living errand running that I think I'm and a lot of"},{"t":3378,"text":"this conversation is around solutions with that. Is it possible to have a separate transit group like a even a"},{"t":3386,"text":"private company that runs small buses around feeding into those hubs you're talking about with BC Transit"},{"t":3393,"text":"concentrating on what they do best or do well which is moving large numbers of people along major routes."},{"t":3401,"text":"Yeah, it's a great question. So through the chair um this digital on demand service uh we've piloted it in Colona."},{"t":3407,"text":"We just recently implemented or extended that pilot to uh Squamish and to one other community that's uh I'm blanking"},{"t":3415,"text":"on right now. Um and so in the future that is something we could consider um within this region. Um once again it"},{"t":3422,"text":"would be targeted to lower density areas as I kind of described. So we could do both of those things ourselves uh in house and we just need to do some"},{"t":3430,"text":"further analysis and planning work to identify where it might make sense within the Westshore. The other thing I'll say is we know that uh internal"},{"t":3439,"text":"travel within the west shore is actually the majority of travel for west shore residents. If you actually look at the CRD's origin destination household"},{"t":3446,"text":"travel survey, I find another interesting thing to note is that there's a lower proportion of trips within the west shore that are made on transit versus those interreional trips."},{"t":3455,"text":"So I think there is a real opportunity especially as the region continues to grow as these density nodes continue to to grow and evolve to look at transit in"},{"t":3463,"text":"a different way to accommodate more of those local trips as well as still improving those those regional and interreional trips uh as well."},{"t":3471,"text":"Thank you. And I have lived in a city where the ownership of a car was impractical. You could save yourself a lot of money and yet all the worries"},{"t":3479,"text":"around it. And if we could reach something even partially in that direction. I don't mean for everyone of course but uh thank you very much. Thanks uh Levi."},{"t":3489,"text":"I'll uh I'll conclude with four questions that I have uh that I have personally and I don't know if you can even actually answer one and that is"},{"t":3498,"text":"that that has to do with the uh uh the regional transit commission. Uh I I had received a letter a couple months ago"},{"t":3506,"text":"saying that the west shore is going to have another seat on the Victoria Regional Transit Commission. I I never did understand how people got selected"},{"t":3515,"text":"for that in the first place because you guys happened to pick the the mayors at smallest municipalities which really"},{"t":3522,"text":"made me scratch my head a lot. Uh but we we heard about this and it was supposed to be announced by now. Is this still going to happen?"},{"t":3532,"text":"Yes, thank you. I can answer that question. Um the BC Transit Act does lay out uh the composition of the Victoria"},{"t":3540,"text":"Regional Transit Commission. Um so the um it allows for an appointment for two representatives from Victoria, two from"},{"t":3548,"text":"Sanich, um one from and more specifically to this region, it would be at least one from the West Shore. And at"},{"t":3556,"text":"this point in time, there are two members um representing Machosen and Souk. So again, those um appointments are made at the pleasure of um the province."},{"t":3566,"text":"Yeah, that's like I said makes me scratch our heads a little bit because you know it's clear um within Victoria that this is these are the real results"},{"t":3574,"text":"from the from from the capital regional district. The fastest two growing communities are Langford and and CO, you know, per capita right now by far. And"},{"t":3583,"text":"in fact, we we get stuck with most of the housing requirements from from the government that our targets are a lot higher than our neighbors for some"},{"t":3592,"text":"strange reason. And uh so it's it's a bit frustrating to me because it's it goes back to this question I ask you guys every year. I know it's a chicken"},{"t":3601,"text":"and egg argument. It really is. This this question I have and my frustration is that I I realize that you guys rely"},{"t":3608,"text":"on data. Uh, but you know, your data is is a little bit false. It's it's capturing the real ridership. It really"},{"t":3617,"text":"is. But what's happening, you know, I I I I talked to so many of these neighborhood groups and the frustration is that like a 45minut service is"},{"t":3626,"text":"they're not going to take the bus, right? and they're growing and this is where the there's there's certain corridors along here you know uh you"},{"t":3634,"text":"know like we said Royal Bay Beach lands that is but all along Ltoria now you know so it is a it is getting to be very"},{"t":3642,"text":"very frustrating so and I kept on saying well why don't you guys I I I'm not just complaining I had a solution I says so"},{"t":3650,"text":"why don't you just try something like let's let's do the the egg here or the chicken whatever your argument is and why don't we just trial it for a year."},{"t":3659,"text":"Like just just increase the service for these areas that we can help you with like the city of CB can help you with"},{"t":3666,"text":"you know where where the populations are and where people are most likely going to use it and put the put the bus"},{"t":3673,"text":"services out first and then it's going to take a while because you're going to have to get people knowing that hey it's now 15 minutes service you know that's"},{"t":3682,"text":"totally acceptable to me you know I I would jump aboard that. So, you know, with my own health back three months"},{"t":3689,"text":"ago, I had to end up taking transit myself cuz they wouldn't let me drive my car. And I tell you, like waiting 45"},{"t":3697,"text":"minutes for a bus in front of my house and then having to wait go down the co exchange and then taking another bus, it"},{"t":3704,"text":"was I just said, \"I'm not doing this anymore.\" Anyway, so I I guess so I it's a it's not really a question in there,"},{"t":3712,"text":"but it is a frustration. But I do hear you say something and acknowledge something I've never heard in the past four years. You're actually"},{"t":3719,"text":"acknowledging that the West Shore is growing faster than what you had anticipated. We all saw it because we"},{"t":3728,"text":"saw what was happening to us. We we knew it was coming. So that that's a great acknowledgement. The um the next question I I really do have a question"},{"t":3736,"text":"here for you here and this is the the rapid bus and if you can remind me there's enough people in the public here that are here tonight and if you just"},{"t":3745,"text":"can remind me why why did we stop the rapid bus in V Royal it stops and why didn't we just continue that through"},{"t":3752,"text":"Cwood because as pointed out by uh council ward earlier you know we had all the intentions when we first heard about this we says okay let's make provisions"},{"t":3761,"text":"to ensure we can get rapid bus all the way up Suit Road, you know, maybe up to the Mosen cutoff, whatever. So, so why"},{"t":3769,"text":"did we stop there? Is it was it a money situation then?"},{"t":3774,"text":"Oh, so, so just to confirm the the dedicated transit lanes. Yes."},{"t":3779,"text":"Um, it's a it's a great question. Um, I believe that section of the roadway has"},{"t":3786,"text":"M jurisdiction for for a certain component and we already had the right of way. So, it's something we didn't need to get land acquisition significant"},{"t":3794,"text":"um private land acquisition to to move forward on um the rest of the corridor."},{"t":3799,"text":"We don't currently have the right of way in place. So, the first step is really we need to as a between all of our organizations find a way forward to get"},{"t":3807,"text":"that right away. And then once we have the right of way, we can start thinking about a business case to to move forward on building the infrastructure. And I"},{"t":3814,"text":"will say BC Transit is the first to say like we need transit priority on the island highway. Um we move a lot of"},{"t":3821,"text":"people via buses on that corridor if in particular in the AM peak people are backed backed up and there's significant"},{"t":3829,"text":"uh travel delay. Um and I think the biggest uh bottleneck right now is how do we get that land acquisition and and how do we keep this process moving"},{"t":3836,"text":"forward because until we can figure out a strategy to make sure we can get the the rightway needed um the project's going to be waiting. Um, and so yeah,"},{"t":3845,"text":"uh, that I think that's the biggest challenge right now is how do we solve that problem so that we can start to plan the for the infrastructure business"},{"t":3853,"text":"case and all those other components. Um, if the land was available, I'd be pushing us to try to get that in into our shorter term uh, infrastructure"},{"t":3861,"text":"priorities for sure for the region. So, do we make that demand through the the regional transit commission or do we do"},{"t":3868,"text":"it through you? that that's million dollar question here."},{"t":3874,"text":"That that's what I always find confusing. Who do we talk to?"},{"t":3878,"text":"So maybe I'll take a stab at this and then see if Chris has anything to add."},{"t":3882,"text":"Um there's a lot of ways you can get the right of way um in order to make projects like this work. Um so it could"},{"t":3889,"text":"be through um expropriation um either at the provincial or municipal level. Um or it could be through uh negot negotiated"},{"t":3897,"text":"purchase. Um all of the options obviously have trade-offs uh challenges and considerations. Um I think to my"},{"t":3905,"text":"understanding's previous approach is as redevelopment occurs to negotiate for that that right of way as the development happens."},{"t":3914,"text":"Um I will just say that if that is the strategy it may take a long time for the entire corridor to to get the right of"},{"t":3922,"text":"way needed. Um and so that is going to continue to be a roadblock um for moving those dedicated transit lanes forward um"},{"t":3930,"text":"unless we consider other ways of of uh moving things forward more quickly."},{"t":3935,"text":"Okay, thank you very much. Last question. Uh last question, Levi. And um I I can say this anecdotally and I can"},{"t":3943,"text":"see it because I saw this data point that we had where we're starting to see that Langford is growing so much, you"},{"t":3950,"text":"know, and the uh commercial amenities are such that uh people in the west shore um go to Langford for the majority"},{"t":3959,"text":"of their needs. They don't have to drive all the way downtown anymore. So, uh, I noticed while I was looking at your your bus map there and like this, I don't"},{"t":3969,"text":"think there's enough bus. I I'd like to in my eyes, I think it would be very busy if you had intermunicipal uh,"},{"t":3977,"text":"betweenwood and surrounding areas. I I I think it's powerful. So, who do I go to to ask for for someone to look at"},{"t":3986,"text":"something like that? Because, you know, it's also got the uh the pluses of it."},{"t":3990,"text":"you'd be able to get on to the the rapid buses uh in Langford, right? You can go, you know, they the service there is is"},{"t":3998,"text":"phenomenal. It's 13 minutes or whatever it is. It's pretty phenomenal there. So, is there someone that we can ask for"},{"t":4005,"text":"some is that something that BC Transit would you do a could you do a study or how how do we go about doing that?"},{"t":4013,"text":"Yeah, it's a great question. So, um, one of those go big moves goals in the plan is to modernize the transit network and"},{"t":4021,"text":"that is one of the few priorities that we can start almost immediately. Um, because part of that process is understanding is there a way we could"},{"t":4028,"text":"utilize our existing resources in a slightly different way. Um and so over the two years after we get the Victoria"},{"t":4035,"text":"Regional Transit Plan approved, there is an intent to to take a look at the broader uh regional transit network in relation to the new network and route"},{"t":4043,"text":"design guidelines and um explore opportunities to do things a little bit differently especially as we've seen significant changes in in where"},{"t":4051,"text":"development is happening, where people want to go. Um so that is currently the plan is over the two years um after the"},{"t":4058,"text":"plan is complete to do a major review of the transit network involving multiple phases of public engagement and just looking at how we can do things a little"},{"t":4066,"text":"differently and the west shore is certainly one of those areas we'd we'd be looking to um the one other thing I did want to speak to some of your your"},{"t":4074,"text":"previous comments that didn't actually include a a specific question um because it is a real challenge and so I just want to lay out a little bit of the"},{"t":4081,"text":"framework that we're faced with right So over the last 10 years, we've been seeing this the average speed of the transit system decrease by about 1 to one and a half% every year."},{"t":4091,"text":"Um and so that is a significant amount of resources every year just to tread water, just to maintain our existing service. So even though we've been on average expanding by about 2%."},{"t":4101,"text":"75% of that expansion is just going to um mitigating the increases in delay and traffic congestion. Um, and so I think"},{"t":4111,"text":"that's really why we're outlining the the importance of us all working together on the future of transit within the region. And we all have a really"},{"t":4119,"text":"important part to play. Um, in in particular when you look at the the current provincial budget situation, right? Like there's opportunities that"},{"t":4128,"text":"we can all look at in the short, medium, and longer term to try to squeeze more value out of our transit system and deliver more service levels and"},{"t":4135,"text":"ridership for for the communities that we serve. Um, so I just wanted to outline that like we wish we could provide way more service to the Westshore and we're just challenged to do that um with the current context."},{"t":4147,"text":"Thanks. Thanks very much. See no other questions. I'd just like to thank you for coming out. I always enjoy your presentations and this one was even better. So thank you."},{"t":4156,"text":"Thank you so much for having us."},{"t":4162,"text":"Okay. Uh we'll move on to item seven which is consent agenda. Uh, is there anyone that wants any item removed from"},{"t":4169,"text":"the consent agenda? Okay. Uh, councelor Dave, what would you like removed?"},{"t":4175,"text":"7.3. And just briefly to outline some uh information that's in that ro we'll pull"},{"t":4182,"text":"it off and that will become uh 8 point"},{"t":4190,"text":"help me corporate officer 8.3 8.4 for"},{"t":4198,"text":"Thank you very much. And can I get a motion for the consent agenda, please?"},{"t":4202,"text":"Okay. Council Olsen, second council Ward. Discussion. Seeing none, call the question. Any opposed? Motion carries."},{"t":4211,"text":"So, we'll move on to new business. Uh, sewer survey results. Uh, over to you, Mr. Johnson, if you can introduce the speaker."},{"t":4219,"text":"Thank you, Mayor and Council. This is the sewer service result. Sewer survey results. Tyler Pettipe uh is our capital"},{"t":4226,"text":"projects lead providing council with an overview. The recommendation is that council receive the results of the sewer expansion community service survey and"},{"t":4234,"text":"that council direct staff to develop a draft sewer conversion program including potential project groupings and prioritization. And further that staff"},{"t":4242,"text":"return to council with a draft sewer conversion program and recommended next steps including a proposed approach to targeted engagement with affected"},{"t":4249,"text":"property owners in candidate project areas."},{"t":4253,"text":"Great. I don't think it's Tyler. You don't look like Tyler. No. Yeah. Unfortunately."},{"t":4259,"text":"Uh is it you, John, or Joshua? That's it's gonna be me tonight. You worship."},{"t":4263,"text":"Um we do have a presentation. It's about eight slides. Uh nothing in the presentation really uh differs from the"},{"t":4270,"text":"uh report itself. Um 428 responses, which according to the experts is more than enough to say it's valid. Y which is nice to know."},{"t":4280,"text":"um 43% um is still on septic. We have 57 zones."},{"t":4287,"text":"It's 103 million as an estimated uh cost. I mean, obviously, we're not going to do a lot with that kind of money until we get grants and so on moving"},{"t":4294,"text":"forward. And we've talked about it with regards to universal costs. Um interesting connecting is uh not bad. I"},{"t":4303,"text":"actually can't read these that long. Um it's fairly evenly split between the two. I think what is of note is that once you start getting into costs, uh"},{"t":4312,"text":"most people don't want to spend any more than 30,000. So I think that's a real divider and one of the the things is"},{"t":4319,"text":"less than half of the zones actually cost less than 30. So significant amount of the zones are estimated to be more"},{"t":4325,"text":"than 30,000. Um other than that, there's a limited support for universal. Um, again, uh, people aren't interested in"},{"t":4333,"text":"saying, \"Okay, I'm not sure what my costs are, but I don't want to pay for my neighbors costs.\" So, again, there wasn't really a lot looking for with the"},{"t":4340,"text":"universal. So, the the cost averaging wasn't uh accepted. Well, um, 368 by zone, 33 zones actually got a response."},{"t":4351,"text":"Um, 13 of the zones are in an area where you go, maybe we should think about it."},{"t":4358,"text":"Um the interesting part there is we really didn't have an overwhelming response in any zone. Uh some of the zones if you want to look at a positive"},{"t":4367,"text":"uh 20% was really like really high um that said yes to that. Uh the other one was 33% but 33% of three of nine people."},{"t":4378,"text":"So we didn't contact the other six. Um, so nothing really jumps out saying the question is if you look at statistics"},{"t":4387,"text":"it's reliable in that if if there's a 20% yes then that means there's some interest there. My own lens from"},{"t":4394,"text":"experience and doing this for 30 years is that if you are interested in having your sewer connected, you probably would"},{"t":4400,"text":"have done the survey. Um, so I feel like there wasn't enough interest in you wanting the sewer to look at the survey and spend the 10 minutes putting it in."},{"t":4410,"text":"So that does cause me to pause to think, is there any effort to be put forward on staff's behalf on behalf of council? So that's"},{"t":4419,"text":"what we're looking for tonight is do you want us to actually dig in deep, see if there's a couple uh neighborhoods that might be interested and if so, come back"},{"t":4428,"text":"to you with those neighborhoods and then reach out to those specific neighborhoods with a cost estimate saying this what is what it would cost and would you be interested in doing it?"},{"t":4437,"text":"So that's really what tonight's um recommendation is is would you like us to dig a little deeper? I can say that"},{"t":4445,"text":"um from a staff perspective um we are challenged. Um we did say the fall here."},{"t":4451,"text":"I I I'd be doubtful if I could get something I definitely couldn't get something to this council uh before the election. Um it would be sometime in the"},{"t":4459,"text":"future uh past that and might even be into 2027. We are at a a capacity issue right now. um concerning workload and"},{"t":4467,"text":"I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have and if I don't have the answer Joshua I'm sure will help you out."},{"t":4472,"text":"Thanks. Thanks very much John. Uh councelor Grove please."},{"t":4476,"text":"Thank you mayor. Um, is it right now if a street would like sewer,"},{"t":4484,"text":"they can lobby or uh request that the city organize a pike down the street if they're all paying for it or if there"},{"t":4492,"text":"are individuals willing to front the cost. Can you explain I understand that's the way it is if that's true, but could you explain that process to me?"},{"t":4501,"text":"Sure. Through the chair. Um, basically what happens now is somebody can come in and say, \"Hey, I'd like to get sewer.\" And we go, \"Okay, where do you live?\" And we take a look at it and um we'll"},{"t":4509,"text":"say to them, \"Okay, well, you have your zone is like 40 houses or 20 houses, 30 houses.\" And we go and see if you can get some of your neighbors to tell us they're interested as well. Here's a piece of paper, a questionnaire on it."},{"t":4519,"text":"Go around and see if you can get 10 or 12 names on it. If they can come back with [clears throat] 10 or 12 names, you know, say on a a 30 zone um area. If"},{"t":4527,"text":"it's a 100 zone area, then we'd like to see 20 plus. Um, then we'll start putting a little bit of effort in and then we'll go and look at the the"},{"t":4534,"text":"zoning, see what the map says, you know, put a bit of a an eye to it to go, okay, does that uh current zone make sense? Is there a lift station that's required?"},{"t":4543,"text":"What are the estimated costs? So, we'll give them that number and if they're still interested, then we look at sending out a letter to everybody. If"},{"t":4551,"text":"everybody gets a letter, uh, you need to have a majority yes before it even moves forward. And that goes by zone, not by a correct a street."},{"t":4560,"text":"There are some streets that would be serviced by two different zones, right? But if it was like a culde-sac with 12 homes or 20 homes, could they apply?"},{"t":4570,"text":"Correct. So it doesn't have to be the whole zone."},{"t":4572,"text":"That's That's correct."},{"t":4573,"text":"And then the other question I have about the septic is simply that do we have any information uh in the city about the environmental effects of the sewage flow"},{"t":4581,"text":"that's running through the septic systems, which adds up? It's a fairly significant number. We do not have any information on that."},{"t":4589,"text":"Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Councelor D."},{"t":4595,"text":"Thank you. Um, I noted that the recommendation was that staff develop [snorts] a draft sewer"},{"t":4602,"text":"conversion program. And while I'm not looking to limit anybody's opportunities, I'm also aware that you"},{"t":4610,"text":"are up against it in terms of the amount of things that you already have on your plate. And there's going to be some"},{"t":4618,"text":"significant changes uh probably in the coming years because we are going to bump up against our limits because"},{"t":4626,"text":"councils have approved more development in the past couple of terms than was originally envisioned. uh when we signed"},{"t":4634,"text":"up for our flows with the CRD. Um so just because we're probably rapidly going to reach our"},{"t":4642,"text":"capacity um in those lines um and because there may be new information in"},{"t":4650,"text":"the future uh I feel like it may would probably make more sense to uh follow the process that we currently have which"},{"t":4659,"text":"is that if there is a group of residents who wish to petition for sewer through a"},{"t":4665,"text":"local uh area service uh that they can do. So, it it still puts the onus on you"},{"t":4673,"text":"to service that request. Uh but at least we're not um asking you to do that work"},{"t":4680,"text":"without a bonafide interest being present. Uh I noted that there's a number of areas that were not at all"},{"t":4688,"text":"interested in sewers and sometimes the other end of the street is quite interested in sewers. But it at no point"},{"t":4697,"text":"in the survey numbers that I looked at did I notice any real"},{"t":4703,"text":"uh strong mandate uh to provide that. So I just feel we shouldn't be uh putting"},{"t":4711,"text":"the burden on our staff to do work that uh the environment may change substantially in near future."},{"t":4720,"text":"Thank you. Yes. Was there a question? Yes."},{"t":4726,"text":"Oh, okay. I got it. Uh go ahead, councelor Jensen."},{"t":4730,"text":"Uh thank you. And that that's uh fantastic from John. And just a couple of quick questions. Um,"},{"t":4738,"text":"is there an opportunity in here? Uh, I mean I I hear your general comments, but is there an opportunity that you see in"},{"t":4745,"text":"any of these results that really council should be exploring? I guess is the first question."},{"t":4753,"text":"If I'm being completely honest, I haven't done a deep dive into the results. I've glanced at uh an Excel table showing me the responses. Um, we"},{"t":4761,"text":"have had an internal discussion. one area I thought was pretty high, but then it needed another area to go first before we got to that area. So, it was"},{"t":4769,"text":"and that area was not interested in doing it. So, it's like to get to the area that is, you have to go through an area that interest isn't. Um, so it"},{"t":4777,"text":"quite likely wouldn't occur. So, I think there's a couple that are maybe like that, but I did not see anything that really, like I said, I think the highest"},{"t":4783,"text":"was 33% and that was three of nine. Um, I did not see anything that jumped out me and said 47 of 132 on a zone or something like that."},{"t":4792,"text":"Yeah. So, I didn't see anything that was off the charts either. So, I I would kind of agree with with your assessment,"},{"t":4798,"text":"but uh I I have concerns about the amount of staff time this is going to take. And I think quite frankly that we have a process. Uh the only thing I"},{"t":4806,"text":"would add uh to staff, yourself, and uh by way of Mr. Johnson, that uh it's really not very well advertised what"},{"t":4815,"text":"that process is. There isn't a button on the website that says click here if you are thinking about sewer and here's the"},{"t":4824,"text":"define process and you know please speak with your neighbors and then come in and uh you know have a meeting with staff and like it doesn't really define that"},{"t":4832,"text":"any so it's kind of mysterious and I think we can take some of the mystery out of it and I agree along the same"},{"t":4840,"text":"lines as councelor day that uh I don't think we need to upset the apple cart and uh introduce um you know a lot of staff time into this at this point in"},{"t":4848,"text":"time. I I really thought we might see some overwhelming results and that's not clear, but can can I hear back from"},{"t":4855,"text":"staff on uh sort of identifying the process a little more flesomely and outlining it, you know, with a couple of clicks?"},{"t":4864,"text":"That is certainly not my forte to develop a website or work on that. But, uh, I feel like a few hours with Sandra and giving her an idea of what that"},{"t":4873,"text":"process looks like and using one of our engineering techs, we could clean up something that looks a little better on the website to give them an idea of how"},{"t":4880,"text":"to move forward. So, I think uh um I I would love that. let's just make simplify it a little bit and define the"},{"t":4887,"text":"process because we all know what that process is or we've heard about it multiple times and and then uh you know I think the path forward for me would be"},{"t":4895,"text":"uh you know less is more in this regard because it's not overwhelming. Uh thank you Mr. Mayor. Thank you very much council."},{"t":4902,"text":"Uh council ward please."},{"t":4905,"text":"Thank you Mr. Mayor. I think I just like to go back to the intent of the survey."},{"t":4909,"text":"um we seem to have jumped right to the idea that this might lead us to initiate city you know staff action in terms of"},{"t":4917,"text":"planning to implement sewer expansion that kind of thing. I think from my perspective the the goal was really to inform it was to gather data and it was"},{"t":4925,"text":"to not only for council and staff but I think for the community um anecdotally I heard a lot about sewers. You know, when"},{"t":4933,"text":"I went door todoor, you know, three and a half years ago, I heard more about sewers than I'd ever heard in my life."},{"t":4939,"text":"And I really, you know, I'm fortunate my my home has sewer connection. So, I didn't realize it was such a hot button issue. So, you know, I was careful not"},{"t":4948,"text":"to make any promises about it because as as I rightly assumed, it was very complicated. So for me the outcomes here do necessitate staff action but not in"},{"t":4957,"text":"planning to implement change necessarily but more to communicate effectively to people. Um it won't put it to bed but I"},{"t":4964,"text":"think it settles it for some term. I think um you know there was a referendum many years ago uh and you know probably"},{"t":4973,"text":"for a brief period after that I'm I'm operating under assumption here but it probably put the issue to bed so to speak for a brief period right and then over time as more people moved into the"},{"t":4981,"text":"community bought a home on septic eventually came time to replace that septic they probably went why am I not on sewer right so I think we have a duty"},{"t":4989,"text":"to take these results um and condense them and put them into you know lay person language to go out and say okay"},{"t":4996,"text":"we we did this survey. Um, it's statistically accurate. You know, outline all of that information. Um, and"},{"t":5003,"text":"and indicate in there some of the the responses. Like, it's interesting to note that 95% of the people that responded were on septic, for example."},{"t":5012,"text":"So, these were people who are actively thinking about sewer. People like me, if they're not in politics locally and they have sewer, they don't care. They're not"},{"t":5019,"text":"thinking about it. But I also found it interesting that of those 95% of folks there, over 70% of them said, \"We"},{"t":5027,"text":"wouldn't want to spread out the cost of of going to sewer across the whole community.\" Pretty good neighbors, I would say. You know, there's there's"},{"t":5035,"text":"some interesting statistics in there, but overall, when you break it down, most people did not want to move forward. There were pockets that said yay, but really it's pretty limited."},{"t":5044,"text":"Overall, it's fair to say that that they didn't. And I think there's a lot of reasons for that. Septics cost. A lot of people may have just done it in the last couple years. Doesn't make sense for"},{"t":5052,"text":"them to be forced into a situation to pay 40 grand to to do that. So, I think we have to communicate the results out in a way to say, look, it's not that"},{"t":5060,"text":"council doesn't care or that staff don't care or we don't feel you deserve sewer or, you know, it's too expensive. It's, you know, we we've done the information."},{"t":5068,"text":"We've done the homework. This is it. I think the the second piece of that that I think taking out of this and this feeds on something councelor Day to her credit has has spoken about"},{"t":5077,"text":"significantly is future capacity. We we are well ahead of our housing targets as we know and the province will continue"},{"t":5084,"text":"to to push that on us but you know we could run out of of aotted CRD sewer capacity in as little as 10 years."},{"t":5092,"text":"That's feasible and then we start paying more for that. So, I would like to see an action item out of this where we approach the CRD um and the province and"},{"t":5100,"text":"say, \"Okay, we're doing our part. We're densifying in areas. We're building a lot in Royal Bay and elsewhere. What is your long-term plan to increase sewer"},{"t":5109,"text":"capacity?\" Because we could run out in 10 years. The McLaclin Point wastewater plant took eight years from project initiation to completion. So, it's never too early to start thinking about this."},{"t":5121,"text":"So, I think it would behoove us just to to um you know, to start asking that question that hey, you know, you you know, the the provincial government"},{"t":5128,"text":"wants to push housing in every corner um of our community. Well, there's got to be a trade-off there. We need to know that that something's coming. So, I"},{"t":5136,"text":"would like to see that. Generally speaking, I think the outcome for me is that I don't want to lay more on staff beyond compiling this into some sort of"},{"t":5145,"text":"communication that can be part of a larger communication like a quarterly report. Um but beyond that, I would say we stay with the status quo, but we need"},{"t":5153,"text":"to tell people why, not just make a motion on it."},{"t":5157,"text":"Thank you. Thank thanks very much. Uh could you answer that question? Um either John or Joshua, you've been part of the CRD discussions now. They're"},{"t":5165,"text":"talking 2030 to start up the the discussions for the next"},{"t":5172,"text":"sewage treatment plant. Are they not? I I forget what the year was. I don't quote me. If I say something, then it probably be inaccurate."},{"t":5180,"text":"Thank you, worship. I would also reserve the right to go back and double check, but I believe it was around 2030. And it's also relative to capacity limits"},{"t":5188,"text":"and the and the amount that are being used up. So, I don't think it is specific with the date. There might be a bit of a range, right? Um but I know that there are"},{"t":5195,"text":"conversations happening now um in regards to that. Anyway, thank thank you very much. Uh councelor Grove."},{"t":5204,"text":"Uh yeah, I would just like to add to it everybody's comments here simply I think the idea of having a sewer navigator"},{"t":5211,"text":"button on the website is a good one and for me solves the short-term problem of"},{"t":5219,"text":"it which is basically continuing on the path we're on but just giving people a little bit more it's taken me a bit of time to try to figure out what a"},{"t":5227,"text":"neighbor of mine is interested in in terms of sewer and so uh that would help the CRD action plan I"},{"t":5234,"text":"is interesting but I'm not at all interested in seeing an overall action plan for suring coin at this time that"},{"t":5242,"text":"wasn't uh at least I wasn't thinking that way. So if we could somehow frame this recommendation with that simple I"},{"t":5251,"text":"call it simple but that the uh call the sewer navigator button on the website or some such I'm not quite sure how to go"},{"t":5259,"text":"about it but anyway I'll defer to councelor Ward I think he has some comments. Thanks very much. So I just have two questions before I go the"},{"t":5266,"text":"second time to council work. Uh my first question is are are there any areas um where environmental or septic system uh"},{"t":5276,"text":"failure is it would be uh is is sufficiently high that we'd have to prioritize it. Is there anything near"},{"t":5283,"text":"creeks or anything like that u that you can think of right now? because we've always looked at this as a demand thing,"},{"t":5290,"text":"but I'm looking at it from a if there was a system failure and and the potential of uh polluting our our our"},{"t":5298,"text":"our water systems right now. So, is is there anything that's been identified by engineering on this?"},{"t":5304,"text":"We haven't heard anything with regards to um putting into jeopardy other environmental things like water systems"},{"t":5312,"text":"or those types of things. uh Interior Health actually runs a septic system applications and so on. So that's obviously um part of their belly wick"},{"t":5320,"text":"with regards to water and um treatment of water and so on when with parameters for NTU and different things. Um at the"},{"t":5329,"text":"end of the day we get the odd person that calls in about their septic system failing. Um again we don't get into the parameters of that. So it could be"},{"t":5337,"text":"because the system's old, it could be a distribution problem, it could be lack of maintenance. We have not found an area in town where we've and generally"},{"t":5345,"text":"if you've got clay beds or something like that that just don't percolate at all. That's where you'd have those problems. I mean, we haven't found a an overly high area where it's like, oh,"},{"t":5354,"text":"we've had four phone calls in this area because a bunch of people's systems have failed all at once or anything. We haven't seen that."},{"t":5359,"text":"Okay. No, that's great. I just wanted to confirm that. And the second question that I have is I thought it was kind of"},{"t":5366,"text":"clever uh what planning did uh when we approved that uh the uh the uh um"},{"t":5373,"text":"apartments or rentals or whatever we're doing over on Souk Road where we got the developer to put in the sewage, right?"},{"t":5380,"text":"The the sewer lines. I thought that was pretty clever way of doing that, you know, and and then I guess the the"},{"t":5387,"text":"neighbors in that area just just have to pay the connection fees. Is that something we can continue to do? Um I I"},{"t":5396,"text":"don't know. Is that sort of a You're smiling, John. You're making me worried."},{"t":5401,"text":"But it's just a question I have, you know, to make it more affordable for people if they want to do this. Um I don't I don't know. I'm just I'm just"},{"t":5410,"text":"asking. It's We talked earlier tonight about a chicken and an egg."},{"t":5415,"text":"Uh this one's a little different, but it's it's kind of the same in that if you'll remember your worship um back then with Linlark, that was part of the negotiated outcome for the extra density."},{"t":5424,"text":"Yes."},{"t":5424,"text":"Um to give the residents something that they could get a value for having to tolerate the extra density in that area."},{"t":5431,"text":"The developer offered up that uh extension of the sewer system. Um and we had recently done work on S Souk Road that allowed that to occur and council in their wisdom said yes to that."},{"t":5441,"text":"Yeah. So certainly um moving forward anytime there's a development that's anywhere near that sewer system um that is something that we can look at and we"},{"t":5449,"text":"often do that through lake comers agreements where we have developers extend the system past properties to go to the development and then if you want"},{"t":5458,"text":"to hook coming back we give the uh developer a lake comer which means the residents then have to pay for that"},{"t":5465,"text":"installation of that pipe and give the money back to the developer. If you didn't grant the lake comer to the developer, then the developer would have"},{"t":5473,"text":"to take that burden on and the residents that fronted that development along that the pipe was extended wouldn't have to pay. So that would be an option where"},{"t":5481,"text":"council could consider that sometime in the future."},{"t":5483,"text":"Okay. Thank you. That answers my question. Thank you. I will go to council warp."},{"t":5490,"text":"Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I might be uh getting ahead here in assuming this, but I I believe that the feeling is the status quo is the most logical approach."},{"t":5500,"text":"Certainly, that's that's my take. I think we can get creative in individual scenarios. We can have um people come forward um you know on on a peacemeal"},{"t":5508,"text":"basis as we kind of do. Uh so I want to move option three uh receive survey results and maintain the status quo. But"},{"t":5515,"text":"I did want to add um an additional sentence to that. Uh and that's and that council directs staff to provide a"},{"t":5523,"text":"concise and clear summary of survey results indicating why the status quo approach. Um so I would add that to"},{"t":5530,"text":"option three. Hopefully I didn't go too fast there."},{"t":5535,"text":"I I just think you always have to give the why behind a decision to people and I think we did a survey so we owe it to the folks that contributed to it, those"},{"t":5542,"text":"who might have seen it um and those who might have missed it but are interested in sewer to tell them that this is the you know the approach we're going to take."},{"t":5552,"text":"Can I get a second please? Thank you."},{"t":5555,"text":"Sorry. And I would just add one point maybe just for the record. And I had this conversation with councelor Olsen before as well is that one of the biggest concerns you hear in the community is is with missing middle."},{"t":5564,"text":"Some of the folks who came forward talked about that earlier. There are folks in our community who are really concerned that you know they've lived in their home 20 years and one day they'll wake up and the next door neighbor is"},{"t":5573,"text":"going to cash in and build a sixplex and then the neighbor next door will build a forplex. And what many of them may not realize is being on septic is a"},{"t":5580,"text":"safeguard against that. Um with Bill 44 and and the legislation, you know, you you can't just go do that. you need to"},{"t":5587,"text":"be on sewer. So, they may not realize it, but I think in many ways that's what's kept large sections of Cwood. Um, I call them sort of the legacy"},{"t":5596,"text":"neighborhoods with the really big lots that's kept them free of of some of the what some would term gentle infill, but others would see as pretty obtrusive."},{"t":5603,"text":"So, you know, just as a side note, I think it's an interesting thing again when it comes to the why, a lot of people might not realize that uh that's why they've been uh been able to dodge"},{"t":5612,"text":"that bullet. So, anyway, just was on the top of my head, so I had to throw it out there. Okay."},{"t":5619,"text":"Uh, council grow second that by the way discussion on on the on the option three on on the motion on the floor. Councelor Day, please."},{"t":5630,"text":"Thank you. I just think that the and further that doesn't quite capture what I heard in the discussion here. Uh,"},{"t":5638,"text":"we're looking to provide information on how to apply for sewers on the website, I believe."},{"t":5664,"text":"Certainly, Council Ward, in the meantime, sorry, I I may consent to that because that would be an amendment to my motion."},{"t":5673,"text":"Um, my only concern is that there's overall issues with the website. It's a larger issue. I don't disagree with you,"},{"t":5680,"text":"Councelor Day. I think we we need to do that. I just worry that if we put this in here, do we now delay communicating"},{"t":5688,"text":"survey results? Um or perhaps we can amend the wording to say, you know, including um as a secondary phase"},{"t":5696,"text":"with any website development to to add the um you know, the sewer service because my concern frankly is that we we"},{"t":5704,"text":"need to revamp the website. We need to do it pretty quickly, but how long will that take? Are we going to sidetrack this? So perhaps through the chair, I see Mr. Johnson wants to talk about I"},{"t":5713,"text":"know what exactly what he's going to say. Mr. Johnson, go ahead, please."},{"t":5717,"text":"I think council's motion should stand up with the understanding that the website will change, but this should get information up for the public right"},{"t":5725,"text":"away. And then with that website reorganization, we can reorganize that at that time as well. So that shouldn't hold that up. We can have those um sewer"},{"t":5734,"text":"results um with the summary and with what council's direction has been. that can happen pretty quickly and in"},{"t":5742,"text":"conjunction with the website review that will be underway. Okay. In that case, I would just take it as a friendly amendment. Leave it as"},{"t":5750,"text":"seconder is okay with the friendly amendment. Okay. Thank you. If I could just motivate a little bit uh just because I know that we did create"},{"t":5758,"text":"already um a guide uh for the potential development uh of sewage for residents,"},{"t":5765,"text":"how how to apply, how to approach council with a local area service request."},{"t":5772,"text":"Thank you. I I just want to make sure uh John and Joshua, are you clear on what that requirement is? So, we're basically"},{"t":5779,"text":"on record. Um, and tell me if I'm wrong, Council Ward. We're basically put on record why we're just leaving it a status quo because the results."},{"t":5789,"text":"Okay, perfect. Thank you. And on that note, seeing no other discussion, I'll call the question. Uh, all all those in favor?"},{"t":5799,"text":"Any opposed? Seeing none, motion carries. Unanimous. Thank you. Thank you very much."},{"t":5805,"text":"And uh I just want to take a five minute health uh health recess please at this time. We'll we'll reconvene at just after uh 5 after 8 please. Thank you."},{"t":6133,"text":"Okay, thanks very much everyone uh for taking a little bit of a break there."},{"t":6138,"text":"We'll we'll move on to I'll call the uh the us out of recess. I'll move on to item 8.2 which is policy project update."},{"t":6146,"text":"Uh Mr. Johnson, if you could lead us through that, please."},{"t":6149,"text":"Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of council. This is just an update report that you will be seeing uh a repp prioritization coming back to council"},{"t":6157,"text":"with some additional project work that can be completed. Uh this is as a result of development activity. Development activity is lower than what we had"},{"t":6165,"text":"expected when our original point report came through to you in February. We have some more staff capacity in order for council to look at those items that have"},{"t":6173,"text":"come up since those items which you originally looked at in February. things like the gentle infill strategy, the"},{"t":6181,"text":"outlook park management plan, age friendly plan review, and public art policy. These will be all in a report with recommendations for council at the"},{"t":6190,"text":"next council meeting so that council can determine next steps and prioritizing staff's time."},{"t":6200,"text":"I I'll open it up for questions."},{"t":6202,"text":"Councelor Day, please. Not not a question, just a comment that I really appreciate getting the update uh on when"},{"t":6210,"text":"it's coming forward so that we are prepared and I'd like to move for a receipt of the information."},{"t":6217,"text":"Okay, thank you very much. Second, thank you. Council Grove, any further discussion? Seeing sorry, uh try to move"},{"t":6224,"text":"it too quickly here. Council Ward, please."},{"t":6226,"text":"Apologize for slowing things down, but just on the public art policy component, if I don't maybe I recall incorrectly, but during the budget discussions, there"},{"t":6235,"text":"was funding there that we removed because that wasn't going to happen this year. So, uh I was just curious how that"},{"t":6243,"text":"plays out here. Are we I believe the funding was to work with an external partner to develop a public art policy. And the reason for that, if"},{"t":6252,"text":"I'm not mistaken, was to get expertise on public art. rather than a city developed policy unless in the intern we've hired an art expert. So I just"},{"t":6261,"text":"kind of wonder why that would appear there."},{"t":6263,"text":"Mr. Johnson or does someone can someone answer that?"},{"t":6267,"text":"Yeah, thank you very much for the question. So we will certainly provide more detail on June 8th about why that project is there. But um it is sort of a"},{"t":6276,"text":"reflection from the conversations that did happen at the council table surrounding public art. Um, there are a lot a lot of previous council directions"},{"t":6285,"text":"that we have received as well about a public art policy and it's not necessarily just for the bridge"},{"t":6292,"text":"specifically. Um, it's a a general citywide public art policy that we do not have. Okay. Thank you for the context."},{"t":6299,"text":"Appreciate it, Mark."},{"t":6300,"text":"Thank you. Thanks very much. I'm going to call the question. Uh, any opposed to receiving? Seeing none, motion carries."},{"t":6306,"text":"Move on to 8.3. uh decision points for council for amendments to delegated authority for form and character de uh development permits over to you Mr."},{"t":6316,"text":"Johnson again please."},{"t":6317,"text":"Thank you Mr. Mayor. This is the recommendation is that council direct staff to amend the development permit delegation by the number 1742 2018 as"},{"t":6325,"text":"follows form and character development permit approvals general approach. The council approved a hybrid approach whereby form and character development permits for developments of more than"},{"t":6333,"text":"four units within the following development permit areas are approved by council with all other form and character development permits remaining"},{"t":6341,"text":"delegated to staff around centers, mixed used employment areas, neighborhood, hillside, late industrial and that master planned communities that council"},{"t":6350,"text":"retain delegated authority within those sub areas of master planned communities that are subject to uh to council approved design guidelines. For example,"},{"t":6358,"text":"the Commons and Lator South sub area plan, the landing in Royal Beach or Beachlands sub area plan and require"},{"t":6366,"text":"council approval for development permits outside of those defined sub areas and that require council approval for development permits where land ownership"},{"t":6373,"text":"is transferred from the original developer to a third party owner within those sub areas. instream development applications that council direct staff"},{"t":6381,"text":"that no instrument protection be provided for development permit applications that have been submitted but not issued prior to the adoptions of the amendments of the development permit"},{"t":6389,"text":"delegation bylaw. And number four, scope of delegated approval authorities that council retain delegated authority for the det termination and release of"},{"t":6397,"text":"development permit security. Retain delegated authority for development permit extensions. Require council approval for major amendments that"},{"t":6405,"text":"materially affect or alter form and character development permits approved by council. Return retain delegated authority for minor development permit"},{"t":6413,"text":"amendments that do not result in substantive changes to form character or the layout. Delegate authority to development permits that vary land use"},{"t":6422,"text":"regulations for developments of four units or less. limited to minor variances where the proposal is consistent with the OCP designations and"},{"t":6429,"text":"retain council approval to consider approve approval of all other development permit variances and that council direct staff to return with an"},{"t":6437,"text":"amending bylaw to the development permit delegation bylaw number 1728 for the consideration of first, second, and third readings."},{"t":6448,"text":"Um, this is following up on council's direction and before we brought a bylaw forward, what you'll see in this report"},{"t":6455,"text":"is we have a number of decision points for council to make to provide us the direction as to how you would like this to see this come forward and we have"},{"t":6464,"text":"Mari Bosworth, our manager of planning with a presentation should receive it."},{"t":6468,"text":"Mr. Mayor, we would actually Mari please."},{"t":6473,"text":"Okay, wonderful. Thank you and good evening and council. Um so yes, this presentation is discussing the delegated authority framework for development"},{"t":6481,"text":"permits. Um what I hope to do this evening is to provide you the information that you need in order to make those key decision points um that"},{"t":6490,"text":"are identified within the staff recommendation. Um a lot of these key decision points are around how to decide"},{"t":6499,"text":"what development permit should be approved by council versus what development permit should be approved by staff. Um,"},{"t":6507,"text":"okay. Just Okay. Oh, previous one."},{"t":6515,"text":"Um, I do have some background slides."},{"t":6518,"text":"Um, I'm going to go through them fairly quickly. These are things that we have discussed quite a bit at the council table. Um, but I think it is important"},{"t":6526,"text":"to kind of lay the groundwork. Um, the previous slide was just about the background. So this conversation started through a notice of motion that was"},{"t":6534,"text":"introduced to council in January. Um ultimately council passed the recommendation to direct staff to"},{"t":6541,"text":"develop a comprehensive report. So that is why we are here this evening. Um the high-level overview of this topic is"},{"t":6549,"text":"about shifting the approval of development permits from staff back to council for approval. And the general"},{"t":6555,"text":"intent around that is to improve transparency um around developments and what they"},{"t":6562,"text":"ultimately look like. Right now council um does not have the ability to comment on a development and what it will"},{"t":6570,"text":"ultimately look like when it's developed. council only has a decision right now on what a property will be"},{"t":6578,"text":"zoned. Um, we will get into the discussions about master plan communities and our current development"},{"t":6585,"text":"approvals process, but generally as Jason mentioned previously, we are seeing a decline in development"},{"t":6592,"text":"applications right now. Um, it is a historical low. Um, and that really is dependent on the market and where um,"},{"t":6600,"text":"that situation is right now. But it does provide an opportunity for us to review this delegated authority and provide"},{"t":6609,"text":"council the opportunity to provide feedback on what developments ultimately do look like."},{"t":6617,"text":"So legislative changes. This is something we have discussed significantly um in the past couple of years. And what"},{"t":6625,"text":"the impacts of this new legislation is kind of the highle gist of it is that bill 44 and bill 47 are essentially"},{"t":6634,"text":"requiring municipalities to permit or change their planning um processes which"},{"t":6642,"text":"ultimately has in some cases removed resoning application. So for bill 44 we must permit three to six units and lots"},{"t":6650,"text":"that meet that criteria. In some of those cases before bill 44, these properties would have required a resoning application and so council would have a say on that development."},{"t":6662,"text":"Similar to bill 47, um it is requiring us to enable specific heights and"},{"t":6669,"text":"densities within proximity to the Cwood bus exchange. Um although these developments still require a resoning"},{"t":6677,"text":"council is not able to deny that resoning application on the basis that they don't feel that the height and the density are appropriate."},{"t":6688,"text":"What these legislative changes are really doing is placing more emphasis on the development permit stage. As I mentioned, a lot of this legislative"},{"t":6697,"text":"change is removing that resoning step and currently under our delegated authority framework, council has no say"},{"t":6705,"text":"on the development permit. And so with these legislative changes, um it is removing council's ability to comment on development within the city."},{"t":6716,"text":"So development approvals also another topic we have discussed a lot at the council table lately. Um but just"},{"t":6722,"text":"highlighting the two key issues that we are seeing with our current development approvals process. Number one is the uncertainty around timing of"},{"t":6731,"text":"development. We have resoning applications. Um we have no requirement for a development permit to be submitted"},{"t":6738,"text":"or we have no trigger and so what we have been seeing is properties will be reszoned and then they will sit vacant"},{"t":6744,"text":"for 10 15 years. This um makes it very difficult for residents and council and staff to understand when a property will"},{"t":6753,"text":"be developed. It makes it really difficult from a staff perspective when we're doing budget forecasting and unit forecasting as we we don't have a"},{"t":6763,"text":"crystal ball. We cannot predict when those developments we will be built. Um the second main issue with our development approvals is about what a"},{"t":6772,"text":"development will actually look like. So resoning applications go to council plans are shown at that time but as"},{"t":6779,"text":"we've mentioned those are conceptual in nature. That is one way that that development will meet those proposed zoning regulations. Once an application"},{"t":6788,"text":"is submitted for development permit it may look completely different but still comply with those zoning regulations"},{"t":6795,"text":"that were ultimately adopted by council but still look different. um council in February directed staff to prioritize a"},{"t":6804,"text":"review of our development approvals process. We have submitted for that grant through UBCM. So we are patiently awaiting the results of that grant so we"},{"t":6813,"text":"can get going on that work. Um but as part of that we will be exploring the concurrent resoning and development permit application process which will"},{"t":6822,"text":"sort of resolve those two issues that we have been experiencing with our existing um development approvals. So that's the background information."},{"t":6830,"text":"Now getting into the main topic of this evening is around those um key decision points for council. So number one is the general approach. So what this means is"},{"t":6840,"text":"what development permits should be approved by council versus staff. Um this list before you is the list of our form and character development permit"},{"t":6848,"text":"areas. Um we will get into the landing and the commons in a few minutes. Um the intensive residential. So, um, on May"},{"t":6857,"text":"11th, council directed staff to amend the OCP to remove that form and character development permit requirement"},{"t":6864,"text":"for lots under 550 meters squared and force new developments of three or four units. So, that will kind of resolve"},{"t":6871,"text":"that intensive residential development permit requirement."},{"t":6875,"text":"Um, this slide just shows a map of our development permit areas, but generally they align with our land use"},{"t":6882,"text":"designations. So staff's recommendation this evening is to approve a hybrid approach, but generally all development"},{"t":6891,"text":"permits within those development permit areas identified before you, the centers, mixeduse employment center, neighborhood, hillside, and light industrial would be approved by council."},{"t":6903,"text":"What that will do is you will see all types of developments such as town homes, uh, multif family, mixed use, and"},{"t":6912,"text":"industrial. So under this hybrid framework, those applications would be approved by council. It's the more minor"},{"t":6920,"text":"applications like the SMUs um would be approved by staff."},{"t":6926,"text":"The next decision point is around our master plan community. So within our OCP, we have a number of sub area plans or local area plans and there are a"},{"t":6935,"text":"handful that have their own design guidelines. So these developers have"},{"t":6940,"text":"gone beyond what our existing um general city development uh design guidelines"},{"t":6948,"text":"are and they've developed their own for sight specific. Um so those are Ltoria South, Ocean Grove and Royal Beach or"},{"t":6957,"text":"Beachlands. So when we receive development permit applications within those areas, we assess those applications against these more detailed"},{"t":6967,"text":"design guidelines. Um it has been acknowledged that they have gone sort of an extra step in their planning approach"},{"t":6975,"text":"and that applications within those sub areas would be appropriate for staff approval given that they have those specific design guidelines."},{"t":6987,"text":"Now the map on the left shows Ltoria South. So they have the commons design guidelines which applies to the areas"},{"t":6996,"text":"that are shaded in orange. The areas outside of those orange areas. So the areas shown and hatched those common"},{"t":7005,"text":"design guidelines do not apply. And so it is our general city design guidelines that apply. On the right is a map of"},{"t":7014,"text":"beachlands. Um they have the landing design guidelines. So the areas shaded in brown is where those um landing"},{"t":7024,"text":"design guidelines apply. Outside of that shown in the hatched areas is where just our general city design guidelines"},{"t":7033,"text":"apply. So, one of the decisions that council will have to make is where will"},{"t":7040,"text":"staff approval be appropriate versus council approval. Is it appropriate for staff to approve um development permits"},{"t":7048,"text":"just within those areas shaded as orange or brown or is it appropriate for staff to approve all development permits"},{"t":7056,"text":"within Ltoria South and Beachlands? Um I would say based on our experience particularly with Ltoria South as it is"},{"t":7064,"text":"fairly built out that the form and character if it is being built by the original developer will be similar in"},{"t":7072,"text":"those areas shown in hatched versus the areas shown in orange. Um it's the same developer. They have the same standards."},{"t":7080,"text":"Even though from a staff perspective we are not assessing those applications against the commons design guidelines."},{"t":7088,"text":"um it is still consistent form and character I would say given that it's the same developer."},{"t":7095,"text":"So the staff recommendation for those master plan communities is to retain delegated authority within those sub"},{"t":7102,"text":"areas of master plan communities that are subject to those design guidelines."},{"t":7107,"text":"So the commons and the landing um to require council approval for DPS outside of those defined sub areas. So this is"},{"t":7116,"text":"currently right now the staff recommendation is saying those hatched areas are appropriate for council"},{"t":7124,"text":"approval. And then the final recommendation is to require council approval approval for development"},{"t":7131,"text":"permits where there is a change in ownership from the original developer."},{"t":7136,"text":"Um and then the next decision point for council is instream protection. And so"},{"t":7145,"text":"instream protection has to be considered. The local government act does not provide any requirements for"},{"t":7152,"text":"council to provide instream protection. So it is ultimately up to council to decide. Um"},{"t":7160,"text":"this list before you is a list of development permit applications that are active. So um they have submitted their application but they are not yet issued."},{"t":7170,"text":"Um, these applications all range in where they are at within their application process. Some of them we"},{"t":7179,"text":"have received more recently, so they're in the um, initial referral process."},{"t":7185,"text":"Some are closer to issuance. Um, some of these applications have recently gone to"},{"t":7192,"text":"council as part of a reasonzoning application or a development variance permit application as well. But of course, council would not have actually"},{"t":7200,"text":"reviewed or commented on the form and character."},{"t":7205,"text":"So the staff recommendation this evening based on that list before you um and considering the recommendations that"},{"t":7213,"text":"staff are providing, the majority of those applications do meet the criteria for council approval. And so the"},{"t":7220,"text":"recommendation this evening is to provide no instream protection for those applications. Um, I would say on an"},{"t":7229,"text":"interimm step when we're amending the delegated authority, we are recommending for those applications to proceed"},{"t":7236,"text":"straight to council instead of going to planning and land use first and then council. Um, I think the ultimate plan"},{"t":7245,"text":"though would be for development permits that they would go to planning and land use first and then council for approval."},{"t":7252,"text":"similar to our process for DBPS and resonings. Um, I would also say given our volumes of development applications"},{"t":7259,"text":"right now, we're not expecting if these applications have to go to council for them to delay the process too much. We"},{"t":7268,"text":"do have capacity and because we're reviewing these development permits anyways, we have all the information to"},{"t":7275,"text":"put into a staff report. So, um, just a little more context for you there."},{"t":7282,"text":"And then finally, could you just go back? So I'm sorry. Yes."},{"t":7286,"text":"I I want to clearly understand this. It is you're saying one thing here on your table and then you're saying you're not"},{"t":7294,"text":"so the ones that are almost. So what you're saying to us right now, the ones that are very close to issuance, you still say no instream protection."},{"t":7305,"text":"Then that is the staff recommendation. Yes. Okay. I want to make sure I was clear on that."},{"t":7310,"text":"Okay. Yes, thank you. Go ahead, please. Sorry."},{"t":7314,"text":"And then the last decision point is the scope of delegated authority. So right now the delegated authority bylaw"},{"t":7321,"text":"provides full authority to staff for approval, but that also includes imposing conditions, requiring security,"},{"t":7328,"text":"amending development permits, and extending development permits."},{"t":7334,"text":"So thinking about each of those independently, development permit extension. So, we amended the fees and charges bylaw last year to add a"},{"t":7342,"text":"development permit extension fee. Um, we were receiving many more requests for extensions and we didn't have a formal"},{"t":7350,"text":"process. Um, our sort of internal process is that we would consider one extension up to one year for development"},{"t":7358,"text":"permits. Um, that is not formally in our land use application procedures bylaw, but we will be integrating that as part"},{"t":7365,"text":"of our development approvals process. Um just a reminder that development permits do expire within 2 years after issuance"},{"t":7374,"text":"unless construction has substantially started. Um the amendments to development permits. So these are amending development permits that have"},{"t":7383,"text":"already been issued and we do get these requests. They do range um from minor,"},{"t":7390,"text":"so that would be a change in landscaping or moving a window or a door to more major amendments such as a change in a"},{"t":7398,"text":"site plan, um increasing or decreasing units which would impact parking and site layout or a change in floor area for um commercial developments."},{"t":7409,"text":"Um DP security. So we require a landscape plan and a cost estimate at the time of development permit. Um and"},{"t":7417,"text":"we take 110% of security at the time of building permit."},{"t":7422,"text":"This is a very prescribed process that's within that delegated authority bylaw."},{"t":7427,"text":"Um it's also identified in the OCP and it's required in the local government act. Um and then finally variances. So"},{"t":7435,"text":"our variance requests also range from minor to major and we do have minor variance requests to a single family for"},{"t":7443,"text":"a setback. Um and then we can also get more substantial variance requests such as parking or retaining walls or um or particularly for larger developments."},{"t":7455,"text":"So based on all of that um we have a number of h sorry staff recommendations."},{"t":7462,"text":"Um first is to retain delegated authority for the determination and release of DP security. So as I mentioned this is a very prescribed"},{"t":7470,"text":"process. Um we feel that it's appropriate for that to remain at the staff level. Next is to retain delegated authority for development permit"},{"t":7479,"text":"extensions. As I mentioned we have a pretty set process that we would allow for a one-year extension one time."},{"t":7487,"text":"Next is require council approval for major amendments that materially alter a form and character development permit"},{"t":7495,"text":"approved by council. So that would all go to council for approval. Um retain delegated authority for minor DP"},{"t":7503,"text":"amendments that did not result in substantive changes to the form character or site layout. And we would"},{"t":7510,"text":"ensure that those minor amendments still meet the intent of the original development permit and ensure that it"},{"t":7517,"text":"still complies with the design guidelines. Um and this would be up to the delegated authority to determine if"},{"t":7526,"text":"it's minor in nature. Um delegate authority to issue DPS that vary land use regulations for developments of four"},{"t":7534,"text":"units or less. So this is a new um sort of delegated authority framework but"},{"t":7541,"text":"allowing staff to approve minor variances for um essentially single family homes or smaller smeu"},{"t":7549,"text":"developments and then finally to retain council approval for all other development variance permits."},{"t":7557,"text":"So that is the presentation this evening. Um again our focus is on um those key decision points for council"},{"t":7564,"text":"but the next steps is we'll take the feedback we hear from council this evening and then we will return with an"},{"t":7571,"text":"amending bylaw. So um this is just sort of our first chance to discuss these amendments. Um but there's still"},{"t":7579,"text":"opportunity to um for for council to direct staff for any other amendments that you want to consider. Thank you."},{"t":7586,"text":"Thanks very much. Great presentation Mr."},{"t":7589,"text":"Mayor, if I can also just mention, thank you to the presentation for Mari council will notice in your agenda package, there was quite a bit of"},{"t":7598,"text":"feedback from the development community with that instream applications and that they were looking for some protection with that. Of course, before we came"},{"t":7605,"text":"back to council, we wanted to make sure that we had council's clear direction so that those bylaws match what council intends to do uh with the feedback that we've received. Okay. Thanks very much."},{"t":7615,"text":"I'll go to questions at this point in time until we get a a motion on the floor. Uh, councelor D."},{"t":7621,"text":"Thank you. Um, as I was reading through this and I thank you for a very clear presentation."},{"t":7628,"text":"Um, as I was reading the report, I was finding it difficult to kind of sum up the one, two, three, and four. Uh, but"},{"t":7636,"text":"the presentation does a very good job of making that a lot smoother in my brain."},{"t":7642,"text":"Uh but I I did have a concern that uh potent because we're in a hybrid system"},{"t":7650,"text":"that there could be um some back and forth around what the process will be"},{"t":7656,"text":"and wondering if you had considered that in uh in bringing this forward. Did you consider that the hybrid might cause confusion?"},{"t":7669,"text":"And just to clarify, um, you mean back and forth when we're considering the appropriate amendments to the delegated authority bylaw."},{"t":7680,"text":"I meant the back and forth in terms of what uh the community is looking to see"},{"t":7686,"text":"come out of this. So I I think we're trying to address the fact that sometimes developments have been"},{"t":7694,"text":"happening in Cwood where they look very different when they materialize or they don't materialize at all for many many"},{"t":7702,"text":"years and then something happens and no one on council or of the public really"},{"t":7709,"text":"isn't in in the loop. So in trying to address that we're keeping some are"},{"t":7716,"text":"delegated where we've already approved guidelines for example and some are going to come directly to council"},{"t":7725,"text":"because staff is going to basically do all of the work that they would have done approving it and put it forward in report to us. So now everyone is"},{"t":7734,"text":"involved, but that could cause some confusion where uh members of the community or developers aren't sure what"},{"t":7743,"text":"the process is. Um and just wondering was there anything that you considered in developing this to address that?"},{"t":7752,"text":"Yeah, thank you. Um I would say the majority of development permits under this recommended framework will require"},{"t":7760,"text":"council approval. it is the master plan communities that would be exempted and then um three or four units and less. Um"},{"t":7770,"text":"however, when staff does come forward with the amendment to the OCP to remove that form and character development permit, that won't even be approved by"},{"t":7778,"text":"staff because we won't even have those development permits anymore. Um I would say this is a change in process. So we"},{"t":7786,"text":"will have to have um adequate messaging going out to um members of our community, the development community to"},{"t":7795,"text":"ensure that they are aware um of of our change in process and that's something that we will have to do when we're"},{"t":7802,"text":"updating our development approvals process um at a high level as well. This is an interimm step before we officially update our other development approvals."},{"t":7814,"text":"So when we do undergo a comprehensive review of our land use application procedures bylaw, we will consider this"},{"t":7822,"text":"delegated authority framework and how that integrates with ex for example a concurrent DP and resoning application."},{"t":7829,"text":"So, um I see this as an interimm step, but you're certainly correct that we will have to put out messaging."},{"t":7837,"text":"And I'm just wondering in terms of we had tried to move towards and it's taken"},{"t":7844,"text":"a long time to get there towards um uh site spec uh site adaptive planning"},{"t":7852,"text":"processes and I've just been noticing that a number of developments that are proceeding"},{"t":7860,"text":"currently um maybe haven't considered uh certain aspect to the land like where I"},{"t":7869,"text":"know there are pockets of really good soil for example and there's a townhouse development going in and it doesn't"},{"t":7877,"text":"appear um you know to have been considered in the plan uh is is that"},{"t":7884,"text":"something that uh where sight specific issues are a part of a plan coming forward is this going to change that in"},{"t":7894,"text":"any way So site adaptive planning is a requirement for properties within our"},{"t":7900,"text":"neighborhood hillside designation. So that is a requirement as part of reasonzoning applications. We also have"},{"t":7908,"text":"a number of design guidelines that speak to site adaptive planning within those areas. So that is part of an"},{"t":7914,"text":"environmental development permit. So, um that is another type of development permit that we receive is a joint form"},{"t":7923,"text":"in character, an environmental development permit. Um if it meets the criteria for that form in character, then it would be approved by council."},{"t":7932,"text":"So, you would still have the ability to review those applications in a more environmentally sensitive area."},{"t":7939,"text":"Okay. Thank you. And um just for those uh areas where we may have less than"},{"t":7947,"text":"four unit applications which uh your uh suggested motion uh puts to um uh the"},{"t":7956,"text":"delegated uh format. Uh would that potentially be something that you could"},{"t":7963,"text":"bring a list forward to council on like on a quarterly basis whether to to do them one way or the other?"},{"t":7975,"text":"We could certainly bring like a status list to council um of the development permits that have been approved by staff."},{"t":7984,"text":"I was thinking in terms of uh would there be an opportunity to to choose to uh have some applications come to council."},{"t":7998,"text":"So under the current direction from staff um that those development permits"},{"t":8006,"text":"for three or four units would be approved by staff, it would ultimately be up to that delegated authority"},{"t":8012,"text":"personnel to um direct an application to go to council. So there's always that option um for the CEO or the director of"},{"t":8021,"text":"planning to refer an application to council. Um, I would say if we are retaining delegated authority for three"},{"t":8029,"text":"or four units, council would likely not have the opportunity to um, request that application to council"},{"t":8039,"text":"unless we gave you a list of development permit applications that we have received for three or four units or"},{"t":8046,"text":"less. And you you could request you could direct staff to bring them to council. um we would have to determine what a proper process would be for that."},{"t":8057,"text":"Okay. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Please."},{"t":8063,"text":"These are measures [clears throat] that we would take obviously council's direction on and we doing reports uh to"},{"t":8070,"text":"council about those and how it's working, what's working, what's not working so that we can make sure we hit the sweet spot. The reality is uh"},{"t":8078,"text":"development applications are down and also bill 44 and 47 and the other amendments that have come forward with the province means council seeing less"},{"t":8086,"text":"development applications than what you've seen in the past. So this provides council to and the public to have them on a public agenda, have the"},{"t":8093,"text":"public have an opportunity to comment and come and make those delegations at council when it comes to form and character. So people know exactly what's"},{"t":8101,"text":"going to be built in their area, not what was uh provided at the time of resoning because that often changes quite considerably. If you think of 3145"},{"t":8110,"text":"Mosen that came forward to council, um council asked the question of well what happens if this property changes hands"},{"t":8117,"text":"and what they said was well um we would meet the design guidelines and they may change and what this does is that limits that opportunity to do it. It comes in"},{"t":8125,"text":"front of council and then it provides the start date where you have two years to complete your development permit with the opportunity for an extension so"},{"t":8133,"text":"people can have an understanding of how those fits together. So, this put puts council back into the driver's seat when it comes to development permits, which"},{"t":8141,"text":"is the direction that uh council had given to staff. But these decision points are important to make sure that we meet council's expectations, and that's why you're seeing this in this"},{"t":8149,"text":"forum tonight. Well, council can also expect um in future reports, whether it's planning or or other um I was having a conversation with corporate"},{"t":8158,"text":"services today where we're talking about decision points again. So, you'll see more of this type of report coming forward with those decision points. So,"},{"t":8165,"text":"as councelor Day said, you don't have to go through the report and try and figure out what all that is mean and what what what are the different decision points that are there. That is a rhythmic"},{"t":8173,"text":"change that we're making within the administration to make sure that uh it's quite clear with um what council's direction is to staff on all these matters."},{"t":8184,"text":"Thanks. I will go online to councelor Jensen and on deck is councelor Ward. Go ahead."},{"t":8192,"text":"Thank you, worship. And fantastic. I made a few notes uh while you were talking uh Mari and a couple of"},{"t":8199,"text":"questions. Um lots to mention about the design guidelines."},{"t":8206,"text":"I guess first and foremost, I mean, how old is our design guideline bylaw? Cuz I don't remember doing it in the last couple of terms. And how does staff feel"},{"t":8214,"text":"about that as far as uh basically the the reference for for a lot of this?"},{"t":8221,"text":"Yeah, thank you for the question. So, our design guidelines live in our OCP."},{"t":8226,"text":"So, they are from 2018. Um, we certainly have some issues with some design guidelines. Um, some could be stronger."},{"t":8236,"text":"Um, and I think that should definitely be a part of the scope of work of a a broader OCP update is to look at those design guidelines."},{"t":8247,"text":"Thank you. And I think that's my point is that uh you know um the community is"},{"t":8254,"text":"evolving and so something that we envisioned in 2018 or you know probably couple years before that uh document was"},{"t":8264,"text":"finished may have certainly uh altered uh over the course of time. Um, you know, nothing infuriates me more"},{"t":8271,"text":"than sitting here and reszoning this property as the same property for the eenth time. Do you see this resolving"},{"t":8279,"text":"some of that? Uh, and I can't think of a specific example off the top of my head, but I've certainly been at the at the table where, you know, we're reszoning a"},{"t":8287,"text":"property and and oddly enough, the the zoning never goes down, so it's always an increase in density. um and uh never"},{"t":8294,"text":"actually having seen any work being done uh you know or started or contemplated again. Do you see some of some of your uh changes resolving some of that?"},{"t":8307,"text":"Yeah, thank you for the question. So I would say there are two things happening. Um this evening we are talking about changing the delegated"},{"t":8315,"text":"authority framework. So that's going to give council the ability to comment on what a development will actually look"},{"t":8322,"text":"like. When somebody submits a development permit application, that is their commitment to developing. When"},{"t":8329,"text":"that development permit is issued, they have two years to substantially start construction or else that development"},{"t":8336,"text":"permit will expire. I would say the other thing that um we will be exploring is that concurrent resoning and"},{"t":8343,"text":"development permit process. That is not what we are discussing this evening, but that is something we will explore as part of the review of our development"},{"t":8352,"text":"approvals process once we receive that grant from UBCM. So that will help the issue of the the timing of development."},{"t":8362,"text":"So essentially what that means is once a property receives adoption of reszoning the next day we would issue that"},{"t":8370,"text":"development permit and they have two years to substantially start that construction or else it expires."},{"t":8376,"text":"If I thank you if I could add just for for clarity we have a number of uh properties that have res and so they have that entitlement"},{"t":8385,"text":"under the delegated authority. Now if that property has been sitting there for eight 2 4 6 8 years or whatever it is and we have a number of those"},{"t":8393,"text":"developments uh that are out there in the community this then gives some shity to the public that what was presented at the time of resoning is then ultimately"},{"t":8401,"text":"what you would see at the time of development permit and council would see that rather than the public being surprised with something not being on"},{"t":8409,"text":"agenda being approved internally um through the delegated authority as it sits today. This provides council the opportunity to find what that sweet spot"},{"t":8418,"text":"is for council. And then as development activity ramps up, and it will, it's cyclical, right? This is a market that we're in right now. Then council will"},{"t":8425,"text":"have an opportunity with a more wholesome opportunity to see the development approach that have come forward and then tailor that approach once again. So this isn't something that will sit here for years in perpetuity."},{"t":8436,"text":"This is just a a state and time with where we're at currently and providing more shity uh for council and the community about what is being approved."},{"t":8444,"text":"um after resoning is done. Now, to answer Council Jansen's question, for those that are seeking resoning and new entitlements, that would have to come in"},{"t":8452,"text":"with a development permit, right? So, then that clock would start ticking. As soon as that resoning is adopted, the DPS adopted at the same time. And this"},{"t":8459,"text":"isn't something uh unique to what we do at Cwood. A number of municipalities do it. And you'll have seen in previous reports um where it said those"},{"t":8468,"text":"communities that have delegated approval authority and we're in the minority though the majority at the moment for what we do in this year in the CRD region with other municipalities."},{"t":8478,"text":"Thank you."},{"t":8479,"text":"Thank you. all all of that and uh Mari's comments uh are fantastic as well and the more certainty we can provide and uh"},{"t":8487,"text":"a timeline linkage uh you know for that development and again increasing the certainty of uh bringing a project to a"},{"t":8496,"text":"resolution uh or if not that's back to the drawing board in two years uh so that again we get another look at it uh"},{"t":8504,"text":"and the community gets another look at it again uh all that is fantastic and and Mari all your little decision points there. I mean, quite frankly, I think"},{"t":8512,"text":"all of those are fantastic. I I do have I guess I'm conflicted a little bit about some of the instream applicants uh"},{"t":8520,"text":"as as was mentioned earlier, but uh I just wonder should we be do you see room to differentiate between some of the"},{"t":8528,"text":"instream applicants as far as how far along they are or is that going to bit get uh too too granular?"},{"t":8539,"text":"So, if council wishes to do that, we certainly can. Um, when we bring back the amending bylaw, we can certainly"},{"t":8546,"text":"identify those development permit applications that are ready for issuance. Um,"},{"t":8554,"text":"staff did not do that as it is fairly convoluted to sort of pick and choose the applications. it was a more"},{"t":8562,"text":"simplified approach to just consider the applications that have been submitted but not yet issued."},{"t":8570,"text":"Okay. Thank you. And I I I mean I don't want to put more decision- taking on on you. So I think I understand uh the"},{"t":8578,"text":"philosophy. I I guess do you see a situation there where some developments are um going to be delayed dramatically"},{"t":8585,"text":"uh by having to come back to council for for some reason here?"},{"t":8593,"text":"I wouldn't say there would be any significant delays. As I mentioned, we have all of the work that would form the"},{"t":8601,"text":"staff report for council. Um staff, as we have anticipated this amendment, we have created templates for a staff"},{"t":8609,"text":"report for development permits. So, we have sort of explored what that will look like. So, um we're not starting"},{"t":8617,"text":"from scat scratch. Should council um direct us to bring development permit reports forward."},{"t":8627,"text":"Okay. Super. Uh uh thank you. Uh that was really the only pressure point that I saw. Thank you worship"},{"t":8635,"text":"Ward. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh I just note that you know some of the commentary is actually reiterating some of the um information and discussion"},{"t":8643,"text":"that previously happened at land use and planning as well as at this table. We directed staff to go away and look at a hybrid approach. As a reminder um as Mr."},{"t":8651,"text":"Johnson indicated there is a small minority of of communities that do the delegated approach as we do. A very small minority and I would say"},{"t":8659,"text":"inconsequential because of the volume of development in Mosen and Highlands that do um you know the entirety of the"},{"t":8666,"text":"council table because of capacity. Um and then the majority of the other regions look at a hybrid approach and it can vary from community to community."},{"t":8674,"text":"But at the end of the day, it doesn't make sense for council to be adjudicating on, you know, minor alterations to a single single family"},{"t":8682,"text":"home, for example. But it does make sense for us to um be weighing in on on significant projects. So, uh on this um"},{"t":8691,"text":"staff report, I would say correctly recognizes that council's role has diminished under provincial legislation."},{"t":8696,"text":"Um and as a result, public visibility has decreased. And this DP review stage is now the key accountability stage."},{"t":8703,"text":"That's where we can be accountable uh to ourselves and to the to our stakeholders in the community. Um and I think residents, this is important because"},{"t":8711,"text":"residents increasingly perceive that projects are approved quotes behind closed doors even when they're legally compliant. And that can be a little frustrating on this side of the table."},{"t":8720,"text":"Um, and so what this framework does is it restores a degree of visibility and I think gives council something that we've been missing and that I think the public"},{"t":8728,"text":"wants to see us have, which is influence over the final bill form. You know, that's what people want. They want to know that what was approved at this"},{"t":8736,"text":"table gets built. And I won't keep beating that drum, but that's important, I think, for for everybody. Um, so because of that, I think the goal here"},{"t":8744,"text":"is to support increased council over oversight, excuse me, and transparency while ensuring fairness, predictability, and objective rules. So I think we also"},{"t":8754,"text":"have to be very careful in terms of fairness and rules that it's very clear for the development community because that business will still remain"},{"t":8760,"text":"important to us. Um, so I have a couple minor changes in here um that I'll I'll propose that I sent to Marcy already."},{"t":8768,"text":"But at the planning and land use committee, I had brought forward the notion of including master plan communities in here. Um, because as"},{"t":8776,"text":"we've seen, you can have a master plan community that has all of these guidelines in place and it looks wonderful to everybody, but then they parcel off a chunk of land, sell it to a"},{"t":8784,"text":"different developer, and all of a sudden what the community was told they're getting becomes something different. And I don't feel that that's appropriate. So"},{"t":8791,"text":"I introduced that that piece at the land use and planning committee. But I do think that we need to shift it away from where it says where land ownership is"},{"t":8799,"text":"transferred from the original developer to find some middle ground where it says it's transferred from the original developer um and any subsequent"},{"t":8807,"text":"development proposal or proposals materially differ from the original master plan community design framework or approved design guidelines. So, in"},{"t":8816,"text":"lay person's terms, I have no problem if developer X sells to developer Y and developer Y is going to build exactly what council approved. It's only when"},{"t":8824,"text":"they change it and say, \"No, no, no. We want to add six stories in another building, you know, then we need to weigh in.\" So, I think that defines it a little more clearly and creates a pretty"},{"t":8832,"text":"level playing field um in that environment. Um, I also I believe councelor Jansen mentioned the instream"},{"t":8841,"text":"component and and I think we need to find some middle ground there as well. I don't think you can pull the mat out from under somebody and say, \"Hey, thanks for investing a million dollars"},{"t":8849,"text":"and having consultant work done, meeting with staff seven times, everybody's been out to the site, but guess what? Rules change. Um, you know, we're we're going"},{"t":8857,"text":"to do that today.\" I think even if it if it creates a little work, we we need to look at allowing some of the instream projects to proceed under the old rules."},{"t":8865,"text":"If they were accepted as complete for adoption, um if they've substantially completed a technical review, they're they're basically ready to go. It"},{"t":8874,"text":"doesn't make sense to me to then restart that whole process. Um, I think we also have to be careful that"},{"t":8882,"text":"we we make sure that we we have everything in place to maintain predictable timelines and avoid unnecessary delays. That's the biggest"},{"t":8889,"text":"complaint in some communities is that things just drag on forever. It's unfair to residents. It's unfair to to the developer, you know, all the"},{"t":8898,"text":"stakeholders involved. So, I think we need to um to really ensure that we lock that down. And then also I think we're we're missing the appeal and"},{"t":8906,"text":"reconsideration framework in here. Um we need to to really um clarify exactly what reconsideration timelines are,"},{"t":8914,"text":"reapplication rules after a denial, procedural consistency. Um so I think we need to to clarify what those submission criteria and things like that look like."},{"t":8923,"text":"So, I did send an amendment over to Marcy with some of these um these items in there. Um that kind of clearly spells"},{"t":8933,"text":"out the the pieces I've just just touched on there. Super."},{"t":8938,"text":"Thanks very much. Uh Council Ward, Council Grove, please."},{"t":8942,"text":"Uh thank you, Mr. May. Well, that's a tough act to follow."},{"t":8946,"text":"Thank you, Council Ward. uh the uh instream issue uh actually could I just get a we uh define that"},{"t":8956,"text":"uh element a little bit in terms of the timing of it's the DPS that are in process but haven't been uh issued is"},{"t":8964,"text":"that that's it's that simple okay um then I understand what council was"},{"t":8971,"text":"referring to there in terms of however I think you made mention that there was no need for particular changes timing or"},{"t":8979,"text":"delay in the process, but I think I heard from the development uh representative something about the cost of changes, possible changes required."},{"t":8988,"text":"Is that in there? would that be a a concern or"},{"t":8997,"text":"so? Um I think that with a change in process when an application is"},{"t":9003,"text":"submitted, I think that there is a um a thought from the development community"},{"t":9010,"text":"that there is a risk potentially that the application could be denied by council which would have impacts on their development."},{"t":9019,"text":"Yeah, I see that. Okay. Yeah. Okay. The other question I had only I think of for example, so you have the two-year time"},{"t":9027,"text":"on the DP grid and uh they have one a one-year extension door. So when do you talk about a substantial start to construction?"},{"t":9037,"text":"Uh does that mean uh sometimes you see an excavator drop on site, bulldoze a building if that's not substantial start? Can you define that please?"},{"t":9046,"text":"Yeah. So they basically they have to have their building permit in hand and they have to be starting foundation. Um yeah."},{"t":9054,"text":"Yeah. So yeah the the BP is an issue. Yeah. Okay. That's all I have to ask. Thank you."},{"t":9060,"text":"Okay. Uh before I go to you for a second time Tom I'll just um make my comments here. Um I agree with uh the majority of"},{"t":9068,"text":"the comments that have been made right now. Uh I feel that the report you did a really good job on this one. I'm going to really praise you for this because I"},{"t":9076,"text":"I think you're just on that right balance because, you know, you had a lot of uh a lot of uh things that you had to balance. You know, the accountability,"},{"t":9084,"text":"the transparency, you know, you had to look at the housing legislation, the operational practicability"},{"t":9092,"text":"of of doing what you're doing. And uh so I I think you this hybrid model is is a good that's a good compromise. And I"},{"t":9099,"text":"I'll use your statements right now. U Mr. Johnson, that sweet spot. I think we"},{"t":9106,"text":"sort of have it. I I don't you know, we're going to have to test it, I guess, and then we're going to have to learn some lessons and and be able to change"},{"t":9114,"text":"really quickly. We have to start someplace, right? That's how I see this right now. However, I do think um the u"},{"t":9121,"text":"the pro one problem I had is just a fairness thing. This this instream protection, it is the weak point of the"},{"t":9129,"text":"report because I just think I just think of myself. I was a citizen right now and"},{"t":9136,"text":"you know I'm following a process. I've been working this process all along. I'm building my house. I did everything that"},{"t":9143,"text":"you wanted me to do and then you know I'm 99% or 95% complete my house and then you come and you change the rules the bylaws. You say no that's not good."},{"t":9154,"text":"Now start start from the beginning again. That's that to me is unacceptable. I don't think from a fairness point of view that I can live"},{"t":9162,"text":"with that. I I think it's just wrong that we're we're doing this right now and and that's why I wanted to ensure I understood your table a little more and"},{"t":9170,"text":"what you were you were recommending for all the good reasons. I mean, I don't blame you for making the recommendations, but myself, I just feel"},{"t":9177,"text":"that if we're these people are about to submit for their DPS and whatever that they're almost there and I believe the"},{"t":9185,"text":"how the system works with you, you're working with them all along. There's no there shouldn't be any surprises when when they're when you're about to give"},{"t":9193,"text":"them their DPS. Am I correct in that assumption? Okay. So, I just think there's it's wrong. Like myself, I'm"},{"t":9201,"text":"just thinking even if I was a developer and I was doing this, I'm following the rules. I'm following everything you told me to do and at the last moment you come"},{"t":9209,"text":"along and say, \"Well, there's no impact.\" Well, I would never ever say there's no impact because you're dealing with the seven of us around the table."},{"t":9217,"text":"And and any one of us could could upset the the apple cart very easily. And like I said, I I think that uh I think you've"},{"t":9227,"text":"basically hit the sweet spot. some of the ideas changes that uh councelor Ward has made I think are good changes and uh"},{"t":9235,"text":"you know I as long as they're not safety uh related uh you know and unless there's a compelling public interest uh"},{"t":9243,"text":"reason to to do so I I could not support that portion of the of your recommendation. That's how I that's"},{"t":9250,"text":"where I am right now. And if I hear everybody right right now, I think maybe we can do one, two, four, and then discuss three if if we want to do that."},{"t":9259,"text":"If we want to uh um you know um look at Okay. Industry. Okay. Okay."},{"t":9269,"text":"Anyways, that's my comments on it. I I'm just saying you've done a a phenomenal job on this and I couldn't see how you"},{"t":9276,"text":"could balance it better than this. To tell you the truth, I was real impressed. It's a really really good report. Thank you very much,"},{"t":9284,"text":"Mr. Mayor. If I can still acting, these are what they're the decision points of council, right? We want to make sure that we're meeting what's council's direction is what council said"},{"t":9292,"text":"to us is we'd like to see development permits and how do we deal with delegated authority? That's why we brought this report to you before we"},{"t":9300,"text":"bought the amending bylaw so that you could make sure that it meets council's expectation. and we're happy for any direction that council would like to"},{"t":9308,"text":"give with that. If it includes instream protection, we'll continue as is for those that are close to the finish line."},{"t":9315,"text":"We can outline what those look like in the next report to provide clarity and charity for council and for the development community. And what I've heard is you're looking for that"},{"t":9323,"text":"instream protection. I just didn't want to be the one signing off on DPS when I've had uh direction from council that this is something you want to look at."},{"t":9331,"text":"Therefore, that's why you see this brought forward the way it was."},{"t":9333,"text":"Fair enough. Good point. Thank you uh councelor Dave for the second time and then council board."},{"t":9338,"text":"Thank you. Um just uh there was one point I uh forgot to mention from my list of notes and I did see in the"},{"t":9346,"text":"report that landscaping and window placement were kind of characterized as minor issues. Uh however that brought up"},{"t":9356,"text":"for me remembering where window placement and landscaping have been problematic uh for some um uh projects"},{"t":9366,"text":"that came forward uh that changed during the process where a difference in grade was left kind of unressed or where"},{"t":9376,"text":"windows are you know maybe um impacting someone's privacy. So I I just felt that"},{"t":9384,"text":"there was some caveats where uh landscaping could be very important or if it's the stability of an adjacent"},{"t":9392,"text":"property that's being impacted. Uh and as far as um the the dem uh the instream"},{"t":9401,"text":"protections, I would just like to suggest that uh I really think those things still need to come forward to"},{"t":9408,"text":"council. Otherwise, when will we stop protecting and start uh because by"},{"t":9416,"text":"what I understand staff are going to bring forward reports to council that would basically be what they would have said to the developers without council."},{"t":9427,"text":"So, that is bringing the community into the loop. And I'm not looking to um make"},{"t":9434,"text":"developers feel unsafe in what are already turbulent times for them. Uh but I am looking for uh being able to"},{"t":9442,"text":"include that public information uh so that the public is in the loop. Uh and that's all I've got."},{"t":9451,"text":"Thank you very much. Council Ward, please."},{"t":9454,"text":"Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um I hear what councelor Day is saying and I think um it makes sense. I think definitive timelines. Um I would going to add a"},{"t":9463,"text":"word to the motion that I have, but I wanted to move the staff recommendation with the addition of a series of"},{"t":9470,"text":"proposed amendments that I had emailed previously."},{"t":9486,"text":"I think there's more than that. Okay. I must consider Oh, sure. Okay. So, well, I can speak to it maybe if you don't mind as we go through the first one."},{"t":9495,"text":"Sorry. Let's go back up and leave it there for a moment. Um, so this is what I originally mentioned is that rather than strictly um land ownership transfer"},{"t":9504,"text":"um it qualifies it to to say where the land ownership has transferred from the original developer. This is specific to master plan communities. Um and any"},{"t":9513,"text":"subsequent development proposal or proposals materially differ from what was originally approved. Um so again it just allows for okay same to same is"},{"t":9522,"text":"okay. Same to different requires council approval. That to me just clarifies. The reason I I also say that um I made note"},{"t":9530,"text":"of it after speaking to someone who had some uh some legal understanding about that is that um I made a note of it here. Sorry. Bear with me just a moment."},{"t":9542,"text":"there there was concerns around it it not being a land use decision at that point but it's more of an ownership"},{"t":9549,"text":"decision. Um so what you're doing here is you're you're aligning it with um"},{"t":9555,"text":"with the land use decision versus just the transference of ownership. So there's no perceived bias like it's not landowner XL to land owner Y and now"},{"t":9564,"text":"we've said hey you can't develop anymore. it's, you know, landowner X sells to land owner Y and now you've tried to change it, so the land use has"},{"t":9571,"text":"changed. It's very subtle, but it there was a legal issue if it was just an objection to could be perceived as an objection or bias to say, well, we don't"},{"t":9579,"text":"like this other buyer, so we don't want their project. Um, it it puts it back into the land use context, if that makes"},{"t":9586,"text":"sense. So, that's one. Um, and then the next one, well, actually it says right there, geez, I went through the whole explanation. It grounds the decision in"},{"t":9594,"text":"land use planning rationale rather than ownership status. I had a much more concise way of saying it originally. Um,"},{"t":9602,"text":"and I wanted staff to include objective criteria within the amending bylaw defining major amendment beyond what we have now. Material alteration and"},{"t":9609,"text":"development unit count thresholds to ensure consistency and procedural fairness. I think that speaks a little bit to what you were saying, councelor"},{"t":9616,"text":"Day. um there' be an opportunity to review that before we pass this bylaw so we could really define um you know we may have a disagreement with staff what"},{"t":9624,"text":"a major amendment is or a material alteration at the end of the day we have an opportunity to look at that so let's get the staff definition really clarified kind of workshop that and then"},{"t":9633,"text":"decide what that looks like um the next one we can go down um this is speaking about the instream piece I had put that"},{"t":9640,"text":"development permit applications deemed substantially complete prior to adoption of the bylaw amendments continue under the existing delegated authority"},{"t":9648,"text":"framework. Um I would maybe consider amending what I put to say that existing or current development permit"},{"t":9655,"text":"applications because that creates a finite status. Um no not there sorry at where very beginning where it says that development permit applications. I would"},{"t":9664,"text":"say that existing development or current either word would suffice. Existing or current there would work."},{"t":9672,"text":"Um, no, sorry, before development permit."},{"t":9677,"text":"It's hard to type when everyone's talking and looking at you, Marcy. Um, and so what that does is that creates a finite time frame of it. So, it's what's"},{"t":9685,"text":"in the hopper right now. What's in the pipeline, right? It's it's not new stuff. Um, this would mean that they continue under that existing delegating"},{"t":9692,"text":"authority that provides some continuity and and consistency to people that have invested. I mean, these are business people. There's a perception that"},{"t":9700,"text":"developers have bottomless pits of money. They don't. There's small business owners in the audience. There's former small business owners at the table here. Um, as you used your house"},{"t":9709,"text":"analogy, if you put out a ton of money on something and and worked under the the opices of the rules as they are today, it I I just can't get behind"},{"t":9718,"text":"pulling the carpet out from under those folks. Um, but there will be a finite term on that. So, nobody new can come in and say I'm going to do it this other"},{"t":9726,"text":"way. Um, and that I wanted staff to to include well staff to report back with procedural recommendations to ensure"},{"t":9734,"text":"development permit approvals maintain predictable timelines and avoid unnecessary delays. Um, I think it's clear that we we make it very clear and"},{"t":9744,"text":"I think that's maybe it was councelor D spoke to that early on or councelor Olson. Somebody said something about um, you know, uncertainty and and people not"},{"t":9752,"text":"knowing and and everybody needing to know what the process is. And I think we need to make it very clear that if you're going to do something in Callwood, would you understand what the"},{"t":9760,"text":"the rules and the structure are? So that basically speaks to that. Um and then also the one piece that I spoke of at the end that staff include um re"},{"t":9770,"text":"reapplication waiting periods and revised submission criteria so that you know if if something is turned down, you know how long it will take to turn it"},{"t":9777,"text":"around and and what the other criteria is. So that was just a component that was missing in the I felt that was a miss missing in the initial initial"},{"t":9784,"text":"piece. But otherwise I would echo what you said, Mr. Mayor. I think it's a an excellent report. I think the hybrid model is the approach that we should"},{"t":9791,"text":"take and uh it's what we directed staff to come back with and and I would la them for doing a spectacular job and very detailed work here."},{"t":9802,"text":"That's my motion by the way. Looking for a second."},{"t":9805,"text":"Thank you councelor Wilson. and we'll go to discussion on the motion on the floor."},{"t":9818,"text":"I can't see. Oh, there's councelor J."},{"t":9820,"text":"Councelor Jensen is clear. Seeing none, I will call the question then. [clears throat] All those in favor?"},{"t":9828,"text":"Any opposed? Seeing none. Motion carries. Unanimous. Thank you very much."},{"t":9833,"text":"Great job, everyone. It was a tough one to get through, but it was good. I mean, you laid down the foundation. The fairest thing and the great thing about"},{"t":9841,"text":"this is that uh you know, it we hopefully got the sweet spot. We might have to adjust here and there. Uh my"},{"t":9848,"text":"biggest worry is that uh I think you've actually minimize the risk of council becoming the admin what I what I call"},{"t":9856,"text":"the administrative bottleneck. I think we're there, but who knows? We'll find out, I guess. Okay. Thank you very much."},{"t":9863,"text":"And then we move on to 8.4, for which is the family youth court and councelor day I'll turn it over to you councelor day."},{"t":9873,"text":"Thank you. I just wanted to take the opportunity to bring to your attention a couple of things done through the"},{"t":9879,"text":"Victoria Family Court. Um and in this um"},{"t":9884,"text":"annual report there is um a uh"},{"t":9891,"text":"God my words are leaving me now. um that uh there's a very good report on the mobile youth services team and the"},{"t":9900,"text":"important work that they do that was done by a professional accredited person following the mobile youth services team"},{"t":9909,"text":"uh and uh a focus uh from the family court committee to look at the"},{"t":9916,"text":"integrated unit teams and uh who work on uh domestic issues."},{"t":9923,"text":"of violence and also um integrated uh police units working on u guns and gangs"},{"t":9931,"text":"uh through the region. So the mobile use services team was one that uh comes to mind uh simply because there's been a"},{"t":9939,"text":"lot of discussion and there has been a move uh from the Westshore RCMP to uh"},{"t":9946,"text":"potentially no longer fund um the positions uh that uh pair police"},{"t":9953,"text":"officers with counselors to work with youth uh to try to prevent them from entering the that particular stream. and"},{"t":9962,"text":"especially the work of CRAT working on uh assisting um sexually exploited youth"},{"t":9969,"text":"within the region. And uh in the last year they also worked with the youth empowerment society to provide"},{"t":9977,"text":"additional resources through grant monies from uh the CRD and family court"},{"t":9983,"text":"to uh to provide additional services to youth who were living on the streets and needing assistance while they were"},{"t":9992,"text":"waiting for those weight lists to finally while themselves down to them actually being able to receive service."},{"t":9999,"text":"and uh they were able to help a lot of uh youth but with a very small grant. So just there's a lot of good documented"},{"t":10008,"text":"research in that report uh when it comes to looking at services for youth and families in our region."},{"t":10017,"text":"Thank you very much. Any questions for councelor day? Thank you councelor day for the update. It was really good."},{"t":10021,"text":"Thank you. Okay, at this point in time we're going to go into in camera. if you could just read up what the motion is and then we'll ask everyone to leave the"},{"t":10029,"text":"room that Thank you your worship. So we are"},{"t":10038,"text":"closing the meeting to the public in accordance with the following section of the commuter charter 91 part of the"},{"t":10044,"text":"council meeting is closed um as it relates to uh labor relations or employee relations as well as um section"},{"t":10053,"text":"92B the consideration of information received and held in confidence uh relating to negotiations between the municipality provincial government or federal government. Thank you."},{"t":10064,"text":"Thank you very much. Can I just motion and then we'll we'll pause. Thank you. Thank you."},{"t":10073,"text":"Council Ward."},{"t":10075,"text":"Any any opposed? See none. Motion carries and we'll just take the pause here."},{"t":10084,"text":"We need to do"}],"words":26691,"fetchedAt":"2026-10-03T05:33:26.885Z"}